How to Turn Your Ideas Into a Book Readers Can’t Put Down - BM523

Why do some nonfiction books get read… and others get put down halfway through?

If your book isn’t connecting the way you expected, it’s probably not a marketing issue. It’s how the message is landing on the page.

This week’s guest expert, Corey Radman—editor and ghostwriter for memoir, self-help, and business authors—breaks down what actually makes a book resonate.

Because readers don’t stay for information.
 They stay for how it makes them think, feel, and see themselves.

If you want your book to do more than inform—if you want it to stick—this conversation will show you what’s missing.

There's a Real Person on the Other Side of the Screen: The one mindset shift that makes readers feel like you're writing just for them.

The Boring Topic Is a Myth: Why the driest subject in the room is secretly the most powerful story waiting to be told.

A Vignette Is a Knife, Not a Blanket: The overlooked rule about story length that separates forgettable writing from writing that sticks.

Some Stories Aren't Only Yours to Tell: The question every writer should ask before hitting publish — but almost nobody does.

AI Is a Brilliant Brainstorming Buddy With a Lying Problem: How to use AI in your writing without letting it quietly sabotage your credibility.

If your book isn’t landing the way you hoped, it might not be a marketing issue.

It might be how the message is being experienced on the page. 

Tune in now to find out more.

Here's how to connect with Corey:

Website

LinkedIn

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Transcript

Susan Friedmann [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books. Today, my special guest is Corey Radman. Corey is an editor and ghostwriter with 10 years experience. She specializes in memoir, self-help, and business books that teach, empower, and connect, because captivating stories start with empathy for the subjects and the readers. Kari helps her clients ask, who's the reader? What do they want to hear from you? What do they need to hear from you? We start there and follow that thread until the work is done. Kari, what an absolute pleasure it is to welcome you to the show, and thank you for being this week's guest expert and mentor.

Corey Radman [00:01:01]:
My pleasure.

Susan Friedmann [00:01:03]:
Kari, you love the subject of how to entice the human on the other side of the screen. Let's start there. What do you actually mean by that?

Corey Radman [00:01:17]:
Absolutely. The first thing I do when I'm writing or considering a project is imagine who is the audience. In that way, I'm picturing a specific person. If I'm writing to a lay audience and it's a medical topic, perhaps they are potential patients. If it's my story and I'm capturing my expertise, I'm specifically thinking of someone, a colleague, a relative. This is important. Someone I like. Then my tone is captured and I'm explaining in a way that I can picture cousin Kim What does she not know that she needs to know? Those are the humans on the other side of the page or on the other side of the screen that we need to always keep in mind.

Corey Radman [00:02:00]:
Keep in mind your audience and have a specific person in mind.

Susan Friedmann [00:02:04]:
In your case, you're writing in all different genres. I mean, it's all nonfiction. However, you may not necessarily relate to some of the audiences. What do you need to do to sort of get in touch with that audience.

Corey Radman [00:02:21]:
For sure. My expertise is in memoir, self-help, and business books, and I can't write most of those without my client. What I do is either if I'm ghostwriting or if I'm editing their work, we spend a lot of time together just talking about their world, their clients, their problems, their pain points. And in that way, and I'm recording all of that, I'm gathering who is the person that we need to address this book to. And then I specifically ask that question.

Susan Friedmann [00:02:54]:
Do you ever find that clients feel guilty that you're writing the book rather than them?

Corey Radman [00:03:04]:
Ghostwriting clients have a lot of worries because there's a lot of mystique around the concept. Sometimes I know they do bring guilt to it or worry. And the answer is they shouldn't because I can't write that book without them. I'm not a financial expert or a doctor or any of their areas of expertise. So I am a hired helper and I take people's words. Sometimes I'm literally pulling the direct quotes from the client and sometimes I'm helping them massage them into more digestible forms, but it's not my work, it's their work. And it is absolutely okay that sometimes you need help with things. You hire professionals to do your plumbing.

Corey Radman [00:03:44]:
Why not hire a professional to help you write if that's not your area of expertise?

Susan Friedmann [00:03:48]:
Oh, so you're the plumber for the, for the writer. For the author.

Corey Radman [00:03:53]:
Now I'm wishing I had chosen a different profession.

Susan Friedmann [00:03:56]:
I like that description of really sort of helping massage their language because I know sometimes I'm like, I get tongue-tied. I can't necessarily always explain exactly what I mean. But somebody else might be able to help me do that better.

Corey Radman [00:04:13]:
Absolutely. That's what editors are for. That's why we have outside readers come and help you with the project so that they can tell you when you've gone a little too far afield or when that image that you think is crystal clear makes no sense at all. You do need outside people and all the better if you've got someone who's got many years of experience doing it.

Susan Friedmann [00:04:33]:
Mm-hmm. So there's so much noise out there and millions of books that are being published every year, authors often struggle with the fact that how can they really hold their reader's attention? Because as we say, because of the noise, because there's so much else going on, how can we make them want to read the book more or even listen to the book more?

Corey Radman [00:04:58]:
What we need to do is remember that we are all humans And humans are story-making engines. We are constantly looking at images or thinking about stories. We're making meaning of the things that happen in our lives. And you can harness that tendency of humans and put it on the page, whether or not your story or your book begins with once upon a time, you absolutely should be putting story into your nonfiction books. I have helped financial authors. Data scientists. I've helped mergers and acquisitions clients, all of those really dry academic topics. There's a place for story in those books too.

Corey Radman [00:05:39]:
In fact, I would argue that you shouldn't leave that out. So one of the first questions after you figured out who you're talking to is then you decide what they need to hear and start talking. And sometimes again, that's why you have an editor. You start writing. And figure out how you're speaking to that person. Think about your ideal reader and speak to them in the tone that best fits the conversation that you're having with them. That's probably my second piece of advice is find a voice that is more casual, more warm, more conversational, because the world has enough textbooks. And for the self-published author, your best strategy for capturing your audience is to to draw them into the circle of your story.

Corey Radman [00:06:25]:
Picture yourself, you know, sitting at a cafe table talking to a mentee. What are the things that they need to know and how can you explain it in a way that they will understand you?

Susan Friedmann [00:06:37]:
So you mentioned the kind of books that you've written, you know, for scientists, for doctors. I'm thinking that those kind of books might be sort of more smart unrelatable.

Corey Radman [00:06:51]:
Yeah.

Susan Friedmann [00:06:52]:
So how do you turn that around? Is it with story? How can you make that relatable?

Corey Radman [00:06:58]:
It is both story and voice. A recent ghostwriting project I have just finished had 150 academic citations of peer-reviewed journals. It was deep in the weeds, and yet there is also swearing in that book. It is possible to do both. You can't fake that. This needs to be your voice. If you don't swear, don't swear in your book. But if you have a way of conveying your information in a way that's exciting or enthusiastic, harness that power.

Corey Radman [00:07:27]:
Your voice is the most important part of what you're trying to convey there. And then yes, come up with the scenarios behind the statistics. If you're talking about mergers and acquisitions, or you're talking about flow charts, or you're talking about cash flow, all of those tools that we use in the business world impact people. There are people behind those tools. And so you think, to what end? What am I using this spreadsheet for? And who are the people behind it that need to understand this story?

Susan Friedmann [00:08:02]:
Yeah. And that goes with presentations as well. I can imagine that being able to take that information and these scientists, I mean, I've seen these poster boards that they do As you said, it's like watching paint dry, you know?

Corey Radman [00:08:19]:
Exactly. Yeah. So think about who's the person behind the problem and what do they need to know? What's the problem that they're having and how can you tell the story? So for example, one of my clients was a data tracking scientist and she took the stories that applied to her clients with permission, told stories about those encounters that she had with those people and the lessons that they learned. And then from those stories, this is important, you can't get too far afield just telling stories because then you need to end with, and what is the point? Start the story with the actionable insight in mind and then build the vignette from there.

Susan Friedmann [00:08:56]:
Yeah, that's a great tip because one of the things that I've been challenged with over the years is in fact putting a vignette, a story, an example to a point. You know, I'm very good at giving you the 10 ways to do this and the 15 ways to do that, but it's that little something extra that will bring it and make it more memorable.

Corey Radman [00:09:25]:
Absolutely. Maybe this is my storytelling brain, but I do believe that almost all people, if you tell them a story about your boss's boss or your mother-in-law, they're going to remember that story. Possibly even more so than your top 3 tips for whatever. Apply those tips in a person's life, show them doing that. And this brings me to another important point for nonfiction writers: do use literary devices. It doesn't have to be, as you say, like watching paint dry to convey this information. So you can make your language flowery. You can use metaphor.

Corey Radman [00:10:01]:
Please do. You can use personification or alliteration or any type of way to— let's see, carnal detail is one of my favorites, and that comes from a famous memoirist, Mary Carr. When she talks about carnality, she's talking about sensory. Think about the images that when you decided that you needed to hire a business coach, where were you sitting? What were you wearing? What were you eating? What was on the radio? Those kinds of moments make it really— it brings it right down to the core of the human. And the emotional level. And then that point just carries so much more weight. Yes.

Susan Friedmann [00:10:38]:
It made me suddenly think of one of my favorite authors, Marcel Proust, who really always added sensory, you know, how something smelt, how something looked or felt. And I was like, oh my goodness. And then it always takes me back to, oh yes, Sunday morning at our house. It had this smell of cooking of certain things that were, and it just reminded me of that. And I was like, yeah, wow. That sort of takes you back.

Corey Radman [00:11:08]:
Sense and memory. Yeah. Especially smell and memory are so tied to one another. You can bring people right into your moment if you can bring them into your psychological state. And smell is a good way to do it. Music is another one though. You have to be careful about listing song lyrics. I would advise against that, but you can certainly say that you were listening to Jimmy Buffett on the radio.

Susan Friedmann [00:11:30]:
Yeah, and you're very right about be careful about using song lyrics because you don't have permission to do that unless you get permission to do it. So yes, you do have to be very, very careful with that. That was a good point. Now, especially with something, you know, educational, instructional, when is there too much story versus too little? I mean, what's the fine line? Is there a rule of thumb maybe that you would use?

Corey Radman [00:12:02]:
It is possible to get way too much story and not enough information, not enough meat on the bone. I would say 1 or 2 pages of story is probably maximum, and then tell them why you're telling that. In fact, you might even start the story with tell them why you're telling them that, then tell them, and then tell them again why you told them that. The point being that visually, when you're looking at the page, it should have some solid text, but then there should be some bullets or a pull quote, or in some way break it up about every 2 or 3 pages. And that's my general rule of thumb is, is about every 3 pages you need to emphasize what you're trying to say.

Susan Friedmann [00:12:38]:
Yeah. Because there's a lesson or there's a method, something that you want them to— an action item. Exactly.

Corey Radman [00:12:46]:
Definition. Yes.

Susan Friedmann [00:12:47]:
Yeah.

Corey Radman [00:12:48]:
If you want to get it right down to the nitty-gritty, I would say yes, about 700 words of story.

Susan Friedmann [00:12:53]:
But not all at once. That would be within a chapter or within the whole book?

Corey Radman [00:13:00]:
Within the section.

Susan Friedmann [00:13:01]:
Within the section. Okay, cool. Okay, that's good to know.

Corey Radman [00:13:05]:
No more than?

Susan Friedmann [00:13:06]:
No more, no less. Okay, so let's keep on this thread of story because What about boundaries of sharing personal stories? What's too much information versus too little information?

Corey Radman [00:13:23]:
Absolutely. Because I also work with memoir clients, I've had an awful lot of opportunity to sit with people working through some really hard things. One of my favorite types of book to help with is a memoir/business hybrid book that has personal stories, kind of, you know, how did you build this type of format? Those are a lot of fun and really captivating because you can, as a reader, just kind of take the ride and see how this happened and when and why. It's important to think about who's going to read this because when you start recording personal stories, sometimes the stories just want to be told. You can get to the point where maybe that was a little too raw, a little too personal. And so my advice to clients when we're talking about especially revealing hard things is to think about who's gonna read this. Sometimes you may have to write it down just because the story wants to be told and it won't get out of the way unless you've written it down, but it doesn't necessarily have to be in the book. And then maybe you can picture your boss reading that and think maybe this story doesn't belong in this particular book about how I built this business or how I, created this solution.

Corey Radman [00:14:35]:
In that case, you'll feel it. Your gut will say, oh, that's a little too much. I have a story of a client who started his business memoir with a story of his father's abuse. It was an important thing for him to say at the time, but in retrospect, he grew to regret that because when he was touring the book, everybody who interviewed him about that read pretty much the first chapter. And that is what he had to talk about for weeks on tour. So that was— maybe in retrospect, he would probably make a different choice were he to do that again.

Susan Friedmann [00:15:09]:
Yeah. Which led me to thinking about mentioning family members in your book. I mean, is there a rule of thumb? You know, do you have to get permission?

Corey Radman [00:15:22]:
Yeah, you need permission to share other people's stories, although, It's your story, and how you experience the world is going to include other people. But if you intend to have an ongoing relationship with those people, it's probably a good idea to check in with them, run it past them, and see if there are any too revealing details that they would like you to take out. If you have permission, then go for it. Subcategory of that is, uh, your children. Parenting is such a personal, transforming experience that Many people's stories feature their kids. That one in particular, I urge real caution. Speak with your children in very generic terms if possible. And if you're going to share a very specific or a hard story, they need to have given permission and they probably need to be old enough to really think about what that would mean because their 7th grade math teacher is going to maybe know about that.

Corey Radman [00:16:14]:
So it's good to think about it. In the context of a business book, those personal stories can be super powerful, especially if it's something like, here's a lesson about the time I went bankrupt. It's a personally difficult story to share, but man, aren't you glad to know that as a reader, that this person really has been there, and they're sharing something very powerful that you can avoid that if the author is brave enough to go there.

Susan Friedmann [00:16:40]:
Hmm. Yeah. And what was going through my mind as you were talking about the children is, yes, getting their permission. Would you get that in writing? Would that be something that— everyone who says, yes, you can do that, that you would get it in writing that they agreed to this, because otherwise they might, you know, a few years down the road suddenly say, I never agreed to do this. Why did you do that?

Corey Radman [00:17:06]:
Best practice is to, yep, get a written permission statement that you can save in your files. And again, with children, it's a gray area. So proceed with caution.

Susan Friedmann [00:17:17]:
Hmm. Yeah.

Corey Radman [00:17:17]:
Because they're not old enough to agree to a contract.

Susan Friedmann [00:17:20]:
Although these days there are children who are suing their parents, so—

Corey Radman [00:17:25]:
Exactly.

Susan Friedmann [00:17:26]:
They can get someone to stand in for them.

Corey Radman [00:17:30]:
Right. All of those moms who blogged for so long, I think, have helped us think about, is this a good idea? A lot of the folks who spent many years recording the wonderful things that their kids did growing up have maybe change their mind about how much of that they should have shared. Mm.

Susan Friedmann [00:17:50]:
I know our readers love when we talk about mistakes. What are some of the biggest mistakes that you find authors make?

Corey Radman [00:18:00]:
It can be hard to know when you've over-explained or under-explained, which is why it's good to have an editor or a book coach or a mentor of some kind who can look at your writing and say, I, I have no idea what you're talking about. Or, wow, that went on a little too long. That's, I think, one of the best tips I can give is that when I write a nonfiction book, I really like to work from an outline. And it doesn't mean that the outline is set in stone and I don't get ideas as I go, but that helps me keep driving the timeline forward, keep driving the narrative forward. And within those outlines, then we have the framing question of the book. Always come back to your audience. What do they need to know? What is the problem that you're trying to solve? And that's how you can decide if a story belongs in a book or you can leave it out.

Susan Friedmann [00:18:52]:
What's going through my mind is where does AI play a role here? Is it something that you use as a tool or what would you recommend to authors?

Corey Radman [00:19:05]:
It's a tough one, isn't it?

Susan Friedmann [00:19:07]:
It is a very tough one because it's getting pretty good.

Corey Radman [00:19:12]:
When I am not under any strictures, and sometimes I write for people who specifically say no AI, period, ever, and that's fine. Happy to respect that. I've found it useful, particularly when there are complex topics that I'm not an expert on. I can point to a study and have Claude, is my favorite, explain it to me. I don't know what this means. Please help me understand. And then I don't use those words. Then I re-explain it again in my own voice or in the client's voice.

Corey Radman [00:19:44]:
It's great for research. Another one that I really, I think is a lot of fun is when I write headings and subheadings and headlines, I really love it when they're punny using puns or jokes or just in some way a little bit more lighthearted. ChatGPT is really good at puns. So I will plug in, give me 10 puns about, uh, chemistry and it will.

Susan Friedmann [00:20:10]:
Yeah, it's so much fun. I love doing that kind of thing as well. It's like, oh, give it to me in rhyme.

Corey Radman [00:20:16]:
Yes.

Susan Friedmann [00:20:17]:
Sometimes I rewrite my introduction and sometimes I sort of play with it. How would William Shakespeare have written this?

Corey Radman [00:20:25]:
Yeah, exactly. It's a good supplemental tool. Always remember to double-check it. I have had more than one client who didn't notice that there were hallucinations in research that they gave me, and I ran with it because they were the expert, and that turned out to be a mistake. In other words, you're not necessarily going back and checking that if someone has, with an expertise in an area, has given me material and said, this is what I want you to use as a resource. Yeah, I'm just gonna say, okay, let's go. Yeah, that comes down to the relationship that you build with your editor and being very transparent. I think that's my advice for that is be transparent.

Corey Radman [00:21:09]:
If you are using it, say so, so that people will know what to question or, or what to think about, particularly as you're building something with a partner.

Susan Friedmann [00:21:19]:
Yeah. Oh, so much information. I love this. Oh my God. There was so many different areas that we touched on that I know we have not touched on before. So I love that. This is a great time, Cori, for you to share your information with our listeners. Tell them more about you and your services.

Corey Radman [00:21:40]:
I am found at my website, coreyradman.com, which is C-O-R-E-Y-R-A-D-M-A-N.com. I'm a nonfiction book editor and ghostwriter, and on that site you can book some time with me. To talk about your project. And my project, or my expertise, again, are memoirs, self-help, and business books. Particularly love working with authors who have some sort of a nerdy scientific expertise and want some help trying to convey that to their audience.

Susan Friedmann [00:22:12]:
Fabulous. Yes, I just see that, that nerdy.

Corey Radman [00:22:16]:
Yeah. Yes. Fun fact, I was a teacher at a science museum for many years. So tell me all about your physics question. I would love to know.

Susan Friedmann [00:22:26]:
I remember I was doing trade show training. My client said, all these people in the room, they're all PhDs, they're all scientists. Just make sure that they're going to get something out of your program. I was like, just bring them on. I'm married to one of those. I know, I know just how to deal with them. Absolutely. Yeah.

Susan Friedmann [00:22:51]:
This is a great time for you. As you know, our guests leave our listeners with a golden nugget. What's yours?

Corey Radman [00:22:58]:
My golden nugget is drawn actually from the inspiration of Elizabeth Gilbert, who for a long time toured the world. I think she was on tour with Oprah and she gave people permission to tell their story. And so that is mine. You don't need anyone's permission to tell your story. Because so often we think about this goal that we have in our mind and we psych ourselves out. We get scared, we get intimidated, we assume we're not qualified or we'll mess it up, or the book won't be successful anyway, so why would I bother writing it? But the answer is you get to write the book because you want to write the book, period. And you can tell all of those voices to be quiet because they're not in charge. And if you run into problems, there are people like me who can help you with the bits that you don't know.

Susan Friedmann [00:23:46]:
Yeah, that's beautiful because true. Yeah, we need that when we need the human side, because as you said, that's the human side behind the screen. We mustn't lose that because again, with technology going at, I don't know, the speed of sound almost, uh, that the changes, we still want that human touch. I think that's going to be even more so as we move on. So yeah, I completely agree. Yeah.

Corey Radman [00:24:15]:
Yeah.

Susan Friedmann [00:24:16]:
Thank you. So thank you for sharing your wisdom. That's been great. And listeners, if your book isn't selling the way you wanted or expected to, let's you and I jump on a quick call together to brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales because you've invested a whole lot of time, money, and energy, and it's time you got the return you were hoping for. So go to bookmarketingbrainstorm.com to schedule your free call. And in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparks some ideas you can use to sell more books. Until next week, here's wishing you much book and author marketing success.

Here's how to connect with Corey:

Website

LinkedIn