The Savvy Seller with Kristen Doyle

152. How Real Stories Create Connection and Drive Sales with Mary Czarnecki

• Kristen Doyle, TPT seller, SEO coach, and web designer

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Feel like your marketing sounds…just like everyone else’s? It might be missing the one thing that truly sets you apart: your story! In this episode, I’m joined by marketing expert, Mary Czarnecki, to explore how storytelling isn’t just fluff - it’s one of the most strategic tools you can use to connect with your audience and drive real results.

Mary breaks down how to uncover the everyday moments that resonate, why personal stories can outperform polished business ones, and how to use storytelling across your entire marketing funnel. She shares practical tips for weaving stories into everything from Instagram captions to sales pages, without overthinking it.

From the power of a childhood memory to a lesson learned on the lacrosse field, we cover how emotional connections fuels conversions, and why you already have everything you need to tell stories that sell. This conversation can truly change the way you approach your content. Storytelling isn’t just a marketing tactic - it’s how you build trust, spark action, and grow a business people care about!

02:37 - Tips for finding the best stories to share in your marketing

08:06 - How you can use stories to create a connection and drive sales

10:28 - How do you structure your stories so that they’re effective (and not too long!)?

16:15 - A quick action step to take if you want to use stories to create a deeper connection with your audience

Links & Resources:

Connect with Mary:

Show Notes: https://kristendoyle.co/episode152

Tired of constantly hustling to sell your digital products? Check out my free 19-minute training where I show you how to turn all those products you already have into a profitable, automated business. 

 

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Check out my Everything Page at https://kristendoyle.co/everything

Kristen:

If you have ever struggled to connect with your audience, or felt like your marketing, whether it's social media, or emails, or even your website, just isn't quite hitting the mark, it could be that storytelling is that missing piece. But knowing which stories to tell and how to tell them the right way so that they actually convert can be super overwhelming. I know that is something I struggle with, and I know a lot of other business owners struggle with it too. So that is exactly why I invited Mary Czarnecki to the show today. Mary is a marketing strategist, speaker and a workshop facilitator who has over 25 years of experience working with major brands, people like Johnson and Johnson Web MD, and now she helps business owners and brands create messaging that grabs their audience's attention and drives them to action. In today's episode, we are talking about the power of storytelling in your marketing, how to find your best stories, where to use them, and how to keep them focused and converting. If you've ever thought to yourself, I don't have any good stories to tell, or you're just unsure of how to make stories work better for your business, you are going to love this conversation with Mary. Are you a digital product or course creator, selling on platforms like Teachers Pay Teachers, Etsy or your own website? Ready to grow your business, but not into the kind of constant hustle that leads straight to burnout? Then you're in the right place. Welcome to The Savvy Seller. I'm Kristen Doyle, and I'm here to give you no fluff tools and strategies that move the needle for your business without burning you out in the process—things like SEO, no stress marketing, email list building, automations and so much more. Let's get started, y'all. Hey, Mary, thank you so much for being here.

Mary:

Absolutely. Thrilled to, thrilled to be a guest.

Kristen:

I was just so excited to bring you on after we met, I guess we met a year ago, maybe. But after we saw each other again more recently and talked some about stories and how we can use those in our marketing, I knew I wanted to bring you on to share some of your genius with my listeners. So let's dive straight in.

Mary:

Sounds good

Kristen:

So you talk a lot about how stories are so important, and they build such a good connection with people. And I think a lot of us kind of intuitively know that, but we get stuck with I don't know what story to tell, and feeling like sometimes we don't have any stories to tell. So what kind of tips do you have for us about how small business owners, digital product creators, can find those best stories to share in their marketing?

Mary:

For sure. I mean, it's a good question, and a lot of times when I'mworking with people on this, it's exactly what they bump into, which is, Mary, I don't have any stories to tell, I always get stuck kind of brainstorming it. And so the thing I remind people too, especially if you're thinking about using stories in your marketing, in your communications, maybe in sales conversations, but basically, when it comes to sharing something about your business and moving people through that audience journey we talk about with our business, you can actually kind of find an easier way to come up with those stories, which is to actually shift it to well, What does the audience actually need to hear from you? So I usually start by helping people think about, okay, not necessarily, what's the story, but what's the lesson that you need a story to help you teach, or what's the challenge that you need to help your audience overcome in order to take that next step with you? So whether that's deciding to work with you, either discovering that you exist or discovering that you're, you know, the one for them. And so before we even get overwhelmed by trying to brainstorm the actual story, the trick is to think about, well, what do I actually need this story to do for me first? And then it's kind of fun, because then once you have that lesson that you want to teach, or, you know, the moral of the story first, then all of a sudden, we can start to really brainstorm the actual stories that can help you do that thing.

Kristen:

Yeah, I love that approach, starting with the why. What's the goal? What am I trying to accomplish? Reminds me of kind of how I approach web design projects, too. We always start with the strategy, right? What's the goal? Where are we trying to go with this? That definitely helps take a little of the, I don't know what to say, pressure off, because really, I mean, we can all say I don't have stories to share, but we do. We've lived a lot of years. A lot of things have happened in our lives. There are stories to share. We just sometimes forget about them, or feel like they're not big enough or not good enough stories.

Mary:

Absolutely, and I think that's that's that limiting factor, right? That we're we might be holding ourselves back from telling a story that can do exactly what we want it to do, but we think it's not big enough, right? Or it's not, you know, some groundbreaking, you know, cure cancer story, like, that's not what we're talking about. But I love, it is exactly like what you do when you think about website design, which is, okay, I could design a really pretty website, but is that actually going to do anything for your business? It's the same kind of thing. There are people out there who can help, you know, who could tell great stories, entertaining stories, incredibly emotionally, you know, pulling and memorable stories, but when we're thinking about them in a business content, we also need them to be strategic stories. We need them to do something or create some kind of emotional connection with our audience, whoever is hearing or reading this story. And so sometimes it's the smallest story that can teach even a big lesson, right? So one of the favorite ones we brainstormed in the workshop, even that we were together for, was the idea of, okay, I'm an agency owner and I need people to understand that they need to trust me, right? Because maybe they've been burned in the past by other agencies. Maybe they've been burned in the past by, you know, other digital marketers they've worked with. Can I help them understand that they should trust again? They should trust me. And it was the story of the perm, right? The bad perm. You know, someone trusted a pro, the woman who we were brainstorming the story for, but people get that experience, right? Whether you've had a bad perm, you probably know someone that's had a bad perm, and you know what that feels like when you've been betrayed by someone who's supposed to be the professional with your best interest in mind. And so we're helping people connect with something that they're already familiar with to now the lesson or the connection that we're trying to make with them.

Kristen:

Yeah, and I would, I would guess, just about everybody our age has either had the bad perm or at least, like, a bad haircut or something similar, that that would build that personal connection to.

Mary:

Exactly. You know, and it's one of those things too, where even the smallest stories, I, you know, invite people to catalog, right? I was, my youngest son is obsessed with lacrosse right now. And one of the stories I use now in a lot of my workshops about getting out of your comfort zone and looking for your next client, connector or collaborator in, you know, unusual scenarios was from being at a lacrosse tournament with him in between games. He and a couple other kids from a totally another team played pickup, and they invited him to, you know, play with them, just because they were there, right? So even a lesson from, you know, being in a 10 year old's lacrosse game can teach something that even professional marketers can learn from.

Kristen:

So once we have these stories, where do we put them? How can we use these stories in our website copy on our sales pages and our emails? How can we use the stories to actually get the conversions to purchases of products or to booking clients, whatever it is that we're looking to do?

Mary:

Yeah, absolutely. So the way I think about it is probably very similar to the strategy that you take and the approach that you take when you're thinking about website design, which is, okay, there are going to be different touch points that our audience is going to be looking for information that they're going to be engaging with as they're going through the journey with us. So if we have this story that is teaching this lesson or helping them understand something about us and our business, the question is that, okay, where do they need to learn that lesson in the journey, and then what are the touch points they're experiencing on that journey? So for example, if it's what we call kind of the why story, which is, you know, who do you stand for? What do you stand with? You know, who are the people that you really have created your business or your brand for? What are your values, right? The big why story. We can think about putting those on any of those broad reach channels. We can also think about, okay, if it's more of like a proof story, where you're actually telling the story of a client or customer that said yes to you, that you've worked with, that has used your product or service, and now you're showcasing what that actual experience was like for them. Yes, you can put those on those broad channels, but they're probably more impactful when someone's ready for that and for information, either they sign up to your email list or they're on your website, right? They've leaned in a little bit already. So you can think about, okay, these are where they're primed for that information. So that's one way to think about it. But I definitely think people can use more stories, really, on any platform, any touch point that you're creating.

Kristen:

So we're thinking through kind of the funnel, that, I hate the phrase customer journey. I feel like it's everywhere, and it feels almost so throw away at this point. But thinking about that, the funnel of your customers. You have your top of funnel people who are just getting to know you. You have your middle of the funnel, and you have your bottom of a funnel. And I guess in the same way that we create different web pages for different people and different lead magnets for people at different places, we need different stories at those different points as well. I love that approach. One thing I know that sometimes

Mary:

Absolutely. Yeah, I think that, you know, when I'm thinking about it, there's kind of like this treasure trove of stories that you can you can build and then pull from. Whether you're a guest on a podcast, or whether you're writing a blog or writing an email to your list, or even just creating social content, asking that question of, okay, well, what, where are people getting stuck in my funnel right now? Am I losing people at the top? Are people getting all the way through and then just not converting, right? What is it? I struggle with, and I'm guessing some other people do What do they need to hear from me? What lesson or what moral of the story do I need to actually communicate to help them move through that experience? too, is when we think about the story and we start to write the story, the story gets really long, and we struggle to know, like, how much of this should I trim? Do I need to keep a long story? Is the story too much and I'm not getting to the point fast enough? How do you, how do you approach that? No, it's a good question. And the kinds of stories that we see work really well that creates that emotional engagement that captivates people, but then also does what we really want it to do in business, which is move them into action, not just entertain them, tend to, yes, be more focused stories. Not necessarily in actual written length or spoken length, but focused on a moment, a transformation and experience. And so when I'm thinking about it, if someone is finding that they're, they're developing a story that covers maybe too long a swath of time, or covers their entire origin story from, you know, the first time I ever thought about this, to now, you know, 20 years later, we we want to chunk it up into kind of a story set. So you can, you can think about different moments in that longer story, and then drill down and make each of those its own little story. But then when you put them together, it could be a story set. So when we're doing that, what we're doing is we're focusing on, okay, what is the one kind of like firework moment or transformation moment that actually happened, where that Aha took place, or where that shift in your perspective, or your client's perspective took place. Zoom me into that that moment, bring me into that room, into the car where that happened, into the room where that happened, right, and really try and bring me into that focus of a story. In that way, it helps shorten, not only the experience that you're having someone to, inviting someone to track with you, but it's actually, it does shorten the amount of time that you're taking in telling that story.

Kristen:

Yeah, I like that. That helps just narrow it to that one little, that one little moment, and then that just kind of naturally keeps the story a little shorter I would think.

Mary:

Exactly, yeah, it does help naturally kind of focus in on the moment, that one moment.

Kristen:

And one thing I've noticed as you've been talking is that all of the stories that you have mentioned are totally unrelated to business. I know sometimes we get a little stuck, especially when we think about like, I need to share an aha moment or a transformation. We think like I need to share my aha moment that taught me this thing that I'm trying to sell you now, but it sounds like you you would say more personal stories sometimes maybe do better.

Mary:

You know, I think it, it's great to have a mix. I think it's much more natural for business people and entrepreneurs to use business stories, which is why I actually focus on it less in my workshop when I'm working with clients, because those are, those are easier for us to tell. Like, how did I fall in love with website design, right? Or, what was my aha moment that you know, this is why I approach website design this way or that way? What I find is that sometimes telling a personal story to illustrate a professional point or a business lesson, is that sometimes those personal experiences are much easier for our audience to connect with, right? They may not be in love with website design, right? Exactly why they need your genius. But they can connect to a moment where they thought their dog had run away, or they thought that their kid had gotten lost in the grocery store, or, you know, so these moments of real human experience, what we find is that we can connect with those a little bit better. And so what we're doing is we're making, we're making connections with things that people are already very intrinsically, very familiar with, comfortable with, right? Those small details, those emotions that they've experienced all of a sudden now you're saying, Yeah, I have those experiences too. I've had, you know, something similar, and you're now connected in a way that is just so relatable, so humanizing, and especially in this day and age, I think that is what audiences are just craving.

Kristen:

Yeah, I think so too. I can see where the more personal stories really help people feel like, oh, okay, she's like me, or he has, he did this too, whatever that is that we, you know, we're just looking for people to connect with. We're looking for things we have in common and and people who are like us, who understand us. So I can see that a personal story would really be better at building that kind of connection than telling, you know, the professional stories, which I know there is a time and place for those too. But especially thinking about who you serve and how you help them. Most of the time, we are not helping people who do the same thing that we do, right? We're helping people who need what we have so they may not relate to my web designer Aha moment where I figured out that the heading needs to be done like this, because they've never thought about it and they don't care. They want the results, right? But those personal stories would connect a lot better.

Mary:

Absolutely. Yep.

Kristen:

So for some of us who are not as comfortable with storytelling, maybe we're just trying to kind of get started bringing some storytelling into our marketing, what is one easy action step that they can take?

Mary:

Yeah, so one quick action step that I think people could take if they're just getting started, if they are just, you know, kind of building the skill of using real stories based on real moments to create these deeper connections with their audience is to first, you know, just think about where are people getting stuck? Are you feeling like you're giving all this information on a sales call, but you're still not getting the conversions? Or is it that you're creating content or blog posts or social media content that just doesn't feel like it's connecting, people aren't really resonating with it? So figure out where you're getting stuck, and then think about the that story first. And then you know it when it comes to actually telling the story and practicing telling the story, I'm a huge fan of trying to tell it to real humans before we even write it down. So whether that's going to a networking event or, you know, a conference, or just calling up a biz bestie, or if you're part of a mastermind group, practicing your stories with real humans is a fantastic way to figure out what part of the story is really landing, because you will actually get real human reactions. You'll get people's, you know, facial expressions. People will actually lean in and, like, want to know, oh, well, what actually happened? And then the other thing is just modeling behavior. I know this is more than just one thing, but, you know, it fits, it fits on a sticky note.

Kristen:

I'm here for all the tips.

Mary:

So it's just to think about, what stories do you love listening to? Who are the storytellers, the podcasters, right, the people who are telling stories in their content that you love listening to? And then just seeing why that attracted you and just modeling that behavior.

Kristen:

Great tips and yes, maybe you cheat this question a little bit. A few action steps.

Mary:

Yes.

Kristen:

Love that, though. And you know, really, there is just so much to learn from other people who are doing this kind of thing really well. I know, for me personally, one of the best ways that I have learned about email marketing, for example, is being on really good email lists, and some of them are really great storytellers. So I've learned some about story from some of those people too, because it just, you know, when you follow people who are telling great stories or doing you know, the thing that you're trying to get better at, you just sort of absorb some of all of their genius and learn to put that stuff into practice for yourself too.

Mary:

Absolutely. Yeah, modeling, modeling what works, and just even observing and getting curious. Well, that's interesting. Why did I stop on that post, or why did I want to read that whole email, and just being able to learn from that experience is great.

Kristen:

And one thing I sometimes forget to do is think about that thing that caught my attention. Why did it catch my attention? What can I learn from that?

Mary:

Yes, I think that was pounded in my brain in corporate marketing. You know, we would watch the Super Bowl for the ads, right, to just learn from the advertising mistakes of others, so that we don't make them ourselves.

Kristen:

Yeah, those of us who don't have that corporate background, it just doesn't come as naturally, but that's a great tip.

Mary:

Yeah.

Kristen:

Speaking of people that we follow, tell everyone where they can find you. Because of all the people to learn about storytelling from, I have learned so much following you, and I think everyone should be following you as well.

Mary:

Oh, thank you so much. I do post a lot of my own personal stories and lessons over on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is a great way to connect with me. And then I'm usually posting more behind the scenes content, life here in Oregon, wine country, over on Instagram, those are the platforms I show up most. But if anyone has any questions, I'm always available through DM in either of those channels.

Kristen:

Alright, and we'll drop those links in the show notes for everybody. Thank you so much for being here. Always good to chat with you. Love talking about how we can incorporate stories a little bit easier in all of the things that we're doing for marketing.

Mary:

Amazing. So happy to be here, and thanks for having me on the show.

Kristen:

The way Mary flipped the script on storytelling really resonated with me, and I hope it did with you, too. Starting with that lesson that you want to teach, and then finding the story to deliver it. That approach takes so much pressure off of just trying to think up the perfect story, because we start with the strategy first. I hope you are walking away with some practical ideas for using more personal stories in your marketing as well. Keep in mind it is very often those little, tiny everyday moments, the bad haircut, your kid's lacrosse game, something else that's just relatable for people that really create the best connections with your audience. If you'd like more of Mary's storytelling wisdom, connect with her on LinkedIn or Instagram and definitely check out her podcast, Sticky Note Marketing. It's full of practical marketing and storytelling tips in bite sized episodes, and you might even recognize one of her guests on the show. You'll find all of those links in the show notes, and I'll talk to you soon.