S1E01 Reconnecting with your Rage

During this week’s episode Amy C Willis from Hol+Well joins us to talk about the ways that, as women, we have been systematically programmed to disconnect from our anger. We will explore the importance of reconnecting to our rage, move it through our bodies, complete the cycle, and harness the gifts and change it can bring to our lives.

• Hol+Well
• Rage Becomes Her By Soraya Chemaly
• Good and Mad by Rebecca Traister
• Eloquent Rage: A Black Feminist Discovers Her Superpower by Brittney Cooper
• All the Rage: Mothers, Fathers, and the Myth of Equal Partnership by Darcy Lockman
• Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle by Emily and Amelia Nagoski
• When The Body Says No by Gabor Maté

Stay tuned for the full season in September, subscribe to receive updates here!

Transcript

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Amy: 0:00

Welcoming anger in, you're also welcoming in a reconnection to your intuition, which then allows you to feel more confident in your own decisions. It cultivates your own self trust. Like there really are, I think, so many benefits to making that connection and really trusting in yourself and trusting that you can express and communicate anger in safe and healthy ways that actually are in service to you.

Narrator: 0:32

You are listening to the Hot + Brave podcast with Bianca Sprague, from Bebo Mia, where you'll hear brave stories, hot topics, and truth bombs that will either like fire to your rage or be the balm you need for your soul.

Bianca: 0:49

Welcome to the next episode of the Hot + Brave podcast. I'm your host, Bianca Sprague. This is part of our summer sneak peak sizzeler reel. And we're going to be diving into the season one topic, which is all about women's rage. Today. We're joined by Amy C Willis, who is my best friend, an amazing queer feminist sober killjoy. She runs her own movement Whole and Well, which supports women and queer folks through their sobriety journeys. She's also a huge supporter of, and contributor to Bebo Mia. She is my companion in all things platonic in my life, and I am so happy she will be sharing her wisdom with all of you here today. Welcome Amy.

Amy: 1:26

I am very thrilled to be here.

Bianca: 1:28

I'm so happy you're here. So let's talk about anger. Do you know anything about that?

Amy: 1:35

It's one of my favorite topics on the planet, and I do, I know some things about it and yeah, I'm, I think it's a topic that needs more air time. And I especially think it's a topic that more women need to be talking about and experiencing and expressing and all of those things and hopefully conversations like these can help facilitate.

Bianca: 1:58

Yep. I agree. And this is something that Amy and I spend many, many hours a week, power walking and talking and on the phone and essentially our airpods stay in our ears as we just rant about our days from our respective homes. So let's jump in and talk about how has anger served you?

Amy: 2:17

Mm-hmm that's a great question. And I think when I reflect back on my life, I think I spent a lot of years feeling really angry, but not fully understanding why. And also not fully tuning into the experience of being angry. So a little bit about me, I'm an Aquarius and I have a very deep seated sense of justice and injustice. And so with that, for as far back as I can remember, I've always moved through the world feeling very deeply attuned when things were not just and right. And when I would see inequities and. You know unfairness take shape in the world. It would always really bother me. And I think for a really long time, it, I just was angry and it felt terrible because I wasn't fully experiencing it. I wasn't expressing it. And I wasn't really doing anything with it. And I feel like in my, you know, more recent years, I've actually really learned to connect to my experiences of rage and actually do something with it. So you mentioned in the intro, my business Whole and Well, so I'm a sober person and I'm really trying to change the landscape when it comes to how we think about and talk about and engage with alcohol. And that movement, and my sobriety are largely fueled by anger. Because the way that big alcohol lies to us and manipulates us and makes us sick and kills us and takes advantage of our suffering and the state that we live in, it makes me really mad. And so that's one example in my life of how anger has fueled the work that I do and has actually fueled change. And the change in my life and the change in, you know, the lives of the people that I work with in my community.

Bianca: 4:16

Mm-hmm yeah. I mean, anger it's it can cause a lot of suffering when it's sitting in our body. And that's one of the things we wanna talk about today because I mean, I know from my personal experience, I too started Bebo Mia from a state of rage. I also had undiagnosed postpartum depression and that in and of itself makes me rage because I, I had it undiagnosed for almost two years. So that was two years of people not noticing enough about me, the people who should have been monitoring me and protecting me and keeping me safe so that I could keep my daughter safe, cuz that was my job as her primary caregiver. But it slipped through the crack from my family of origin, from my daughter's other parent. And I mean that in and of itself. So like the rage was a, you know, also correlated with a, with a state of mental unwellness. But like through my life, I also found, I, I felt like this just general sense of injustice and I didn't know how to connect to it. I found the more I stepped into my truth, you know, coming out. All of these other steps, it allowed me to actually deal and isolate some of the rage, like tease it apart because it becomes like one of those giant yarn balls. And it feels just like, it just sits on your chest all the time. And so I know for Bebo Mia, that was, that was my fuel that I passed my kitchen with a newborn baby and wildly under-resourced wildly under cared for like no support, in a relationship that was just terrible. It didn't serve my heart or my soul or my being. And I knew that I was like, I need to find people. I need to deal with all these feelings. I need more. And so you know, rage is fuel and as long as we keep it out of the suffering, which I, Amy and I would both say in our stories that it just like, it just stewed in us for most of our lives, and that's where it be, you know, it makes us sick. It, it, it just like pools and stews. And so now we can take it, we can feel it, we can go through the process and we can do some really cool shit with it. Which is what we're gonna talk about today, which I'm really excited about. So when we talk about anger I think it's important for, you know, language matters and that we talk about like, what are we talking about with anger? What does it feel like? And like, where did this bad for women? Like why did anger become something that we couldn't explore?

Amy: 6:34

I mean, I think we all can sort of speak to our own experiences of anger in our lives, but as far back as I can remember it was never really acceptable or encouraged for girls or women in my life, people around me to really experience anger. And I think the unspoken, but deeply ingrained societal expectation is that women and girls are supposed to be kind and quiet and gentle and giving and in service of others, mainly children and men and supportive and comforting and loving and all of those things are associated with our goodness and our value as women. And anger doesn't really mesh well with those, with those other elements. And so I think, you know, what it means to be a good woman does not connect with anger. And I think it's a very gendered emotion. It has become a very gendered emotion and for, you know, people who identify as women, as girl and girls anger is insidiously cleaved from femininity. And it's not something that we're allowed to be. So angry girls and angry women are not good women and not good girls. And I think that this is intentional conditioning and a strategic part of the patriarchal upkeep. So that that's a little bit about how we got here. What do you think?

Bianca: 8:07

Yeah, I agree. And I mean, that good girl thing is like so deep I'm I have been like unlearning my good girl, like I'm learning and it's really, really hard. And I know people can be really surprised about that. And I know when it pops up where I'm like, oh, a like a good girl would stay quiet or a good girl would smile at that comment. You don't like out in the world. And it catches me off guard sometimes where I'm like, oh shit, I hated that. I hated what you just said to me. I hated what you just said to, you know, about my partner or my friend. Or, like you know, I hated that I agreed to this term and I don't like it. And so I know that this is something that Meg and I both very very actively talk about our like good girl reforming into bad girls because it is true. And, and our likability, the research around this it's bonkers how precarious our likability is around compliance and care and free labor. And so if anyone wants to go nerd out on the research, there's, there's amazing studies of what happens. I mean, most of it is done in the workforce, but you know, if you ask Joan to bring the cake tomorrow, and if she says, actually I can't bring the cake for the birthday party at the staff room. Her likability is like obliterated in that act. And it doesn't matter what her reason is. And, you know, a male could say, I don't, I can't bring the cake. And they could say any reason, like I actually have racketball tonight or tonight's game day, or I picked very gendered things, but like literally anything versus Joan could be like,"I have to go to the hospital. My mother's dying." And Joan would be like, looked over for a promotion for that. And men can continue to do whatever thing they had. I actually have to pick up the dry cleaning before it closes like anything. And it has no harm to, you know, their, their likability, their promotion, them, how they're viewed as a team player. And so all of those things like that is how precarious we sit on that we can't decline free labor, let alone say like, you know, the, the verbal equivalent of flipping the table in the, in the staff room. Yeah. Like there's no space for us to have anything like that come out. And I mean, in fact, throughout history, they did terrible things to our bodies, like gave us hysterectomies. The word hysteria was rooted because they thought it came from our uterus was this source of, of unreasonable rage. And so when we were, you know, put into these terrible institutions because we expressed our emotions or we cried, or we got mad. They either took out our uterus or they gave us a lobotomy. And so like, we have been systematically deprogrammed to have the full range of emotions which I think leads us to a really important question around like, you know, what, what happened here that we have this range where there's quote good emotions and there's quote, bad emotions.

Amy: 11:00

I think in part of our, I guess we could say invitation to reconnect with your anger and reconnect with that emotion. Some unlearning will be involved and, and I think an important part of that is remembering that all emotions are legitimate. All emotions are neutral. There isn't any morality attached to anything that we feel. And there's actually a lot of value in connecting to and experiencing and expressing anger. There's a really excellent book called Rage Becomes Her. Mm mm. And did you read that?

Bianca: 11:42

No, I read Good and Mad. They came out literally the same time. And do you know what is really funny about this is they're very similar looking books and the New York times, as well as somebody else, whoever reviewed it, literally put the identical quotes for them being like good job women talking about anger. And they're the exact same quotes on the front of the books that came out at the same time. You know, when Trump existed in our faces at an extreme level. And so Amy read Rage Becomes Her and I read Good and Mad. They're very similar books of the fuel of rage and what it can do.

Amy: 12:15

Yeah. Soraya Chemaly is the author of Rage Becomes Her. And I actually read another book by Brittney Cooper called Eloquent Rage and all three of those books came out in the same year.

Bianca: 12:28

Yeah. We had a lot of shit to be mad about.

Amy: 12:30

Yeah. Prompted largely by 20, the 2016 election.

Bianca: 12:33

Yeah.

Amy: 12:34

Yeah. But in this book, Rage Becomes Her, she actually talks about how anger is a signal emotion and it warns of things like threats and insult and harm and indignity. And I would add to that, that anger is actually a signal of boundary violations. And that anger is helpful for us. It's a messenger and it's there to present us with vital information on our safety and our wellbeing and connected to that is our intuition. And that is something that I think historically we have been taught not to trust and not to rely on, even though it's deeply connected to us, it's inherent within us. And it does provide a lot of important information

Bianca: 13:18

I would actually call it women's superpower.

Amy: 13:21

Yeah.

Bianca: 13:21

Because we know, like we know our body sends us all the signals. Don't go down there. Don't send your kid to that party. I don't actually like this babysitter. Like, you know, it doesn't feel right to go out tonight. I, whatever the thing is. Yeah. Like big and small, like big and small, like, should I cut bangs? Like we get the signal. Amy: No, no, no. Don't do it! We get the signal. And we have been programmed to override it. And I know every time I'm like I got all the signals, what happened and I'm deeply reconnecting that connection back to my intuition. It's literally the mission of Bebo Mia is to connect you to your intrinsic value and power . Because we're unfuckable with, as long as we are standing in our power, cuz we'll just be like, oh actually, no, I, I can't drop that off because we'll just know, like, we actually can't do that for whatever reason, some for big safety things and some are just like, that's not in service of me right now. But instead we put weird rules around it and then they usually end up being misguided and self, like people experience them as selfish because they come out of like in weird places, cuz you're like, oh right, I'm choosing me or I'm gonna listen to the things or do the things I don't wanna do. But because it's inconsistent, it's hard for the folks around us to like find the pattern versus, you know, Amy's does this very, very well. And so when she's like, oh no, not today. I'm not like, "Oh that's weird. Cuz last time you let me." She would've said the same thing every time. So I'm not like, it feels very clear. There's nothing punitive. And it's just like, no, Amy just knows what's up with her body and her choices. Versus when people are trying it on, it can feel a bit clunky for folks around you. So they, they might not love it, but it's your superpower. It's, it's built in because we are the protectors and we're dependents and we're vulnerable and we care for other vulnerable people.

Amy: 15:09

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think in, you know, welcoming anger in, you're also welcoming in a reconnection to your intuition and to your superpower, which then allows you to feel more confident in your own decisions. It cultivates your own self trust. Like there really are, I think so many benefits to making that connection and really trusting in yourself and trusting that you can express and communicate anger in safe and healthy ways that actually are in service to you.

Bianca: 15:45

Now, spoiler alert. Most of us haven't had the opportunity to express our anger in anyway. And so it comes out real sideways most of the time. And as you're doing this work, if you're like, you know what, I'm gonna clear out this backlog and then like catch up. We do have that backlog that needs to be cleared out. Yeah. So. We know we have this backlog because you probably pop off at very weird things. It's not about the fact that your partner burned the spaghetti or that you like misplaced one of your earrings or, you know, the many things that Instagram post, or like how somebody showed up in a TV show. But like, I know when I'm not clearing out my anger backlog of like, you know, the things that I can control, it comes out real big and I'll like, lose my mind over something, and they're like, oh, I don't think that's about my charger being moved from next to my bed. I'm gonna venture a guess that something else is happening here. So as we do this, I think it's important that we do some of that, like getting to the root of what is happening. So it's not about the charger, but if I take a beat and follow that string back to the big ball. I can say, like that actually felt like something, you know, it's usually my teen that does it, that she took it out and we still haven't cleaned up last night's disagreement about, you know, whatever teen shit and that I'm feeling really unsupported in the parenting journey because I don't have any other support except my chosen family. And that makes me really angry that everybody who shares genetic material with my teen has failed us both. And so, you know, that's actually what it's about and I have to do that and then direct it to the right person or the right people, even if I can actually be in relationship with those people. But to be like, I'm actually really, really mad here that we've been failed. And yet people still tout the family organization as this like really great thing. And it's really just another system failing us. So that's what it's about. Not the phone charger getting moved. Even though that's mad, annoying.

Amy: 17:55

Sure. Yeah. Yes, yes. But maybe not worth the like blow up, you know?

Bianca: 17:59

No, no.

Amy: 18:00

Yeah, and I think, you know, spending time and we talk a lot on this channel and I talk a lot in my own work about curiosity. And so really inviting in that curiosity. And I think, you know, the entire process of even reconnecting to your own anger. It's a process because a lot of us, as Bianca said have a lot of unexpressed anger, and sometimes the it's unexpressed because we are mislabeling it because it's a lot more acceptable to say "I'm frustrated" or"I'm annoyed" than it is to say I'm fucking seething because of X, Y, and Z. And so I think with the curiosity, the first step is naming it, like actually naming your feelings and saying I'm really mad right now. And then taking it to the next step of like, okay, what's the root of this? It's not about the charger. That's clear. So where is this actually coming from? Where do I need to like, clear that out? Where do I need to actually appropriately name and direct my feelings and acknowledging that entire process. Right? Because sometimes those things happen so quickly that we just skim over it. And then it's all just in our bodies. Unprocessed, unaddressed. And that's when the suffering comes in and that's when the sickness cup comes in. Right? Like it becomes emotional distress, which becomes disease and illness. And there's so much research on that.

Bianca: 19:28

Yeah. And also anger is, is like easier to access. And y'all, we have so much to be angry about. Like watch the media, like the fact that folks who identify as women cannot safely move through physical space on this planet without the constant hum of like anybody could do bad things to my body and to my being and to my children. Like it's, that's always just as an underlying thing, which would be a lot to be mad about, but we can also access it faster. And sometimes like Amy said with naming it under it, it's also like deep grief is shame is sadness is disappointment. And like some of those things we definitely aren't expressing to ourselves, let alone to safe, trusting people to like, hold you while you experience that. So, as we talk about what to do with the big feelings first I, you know, we wanna have a caveat through everything that we say that it is not, you. You as the individual, shit, it's hard getting through our day.

Amy: 20:28

It's not your fault.

Bianca: 20:29

It's not your fault. Yeah. This is the patriarchy failing us. This is systems failing us. This is like, this is happening to us. And so this is part of how we can have a reclamation of our power, but first we need to hold that with you. Is that like, we see you and we love you and you deserve calm and peace and celebration and love and joy. And most of us don't even have the bandwidth to access that because we have a lot of stimulus in our home lives. You know, and what's happening on the world. So we can't talk ourselves out of our feelings and that's where a lot of the suffering comes in. Like, you're probably really mad at the other people who are the genetic material of your children. So when we're talking about a cis-het context you know, dads and husbands are really disappointing women. There's a million books right now. This is not anecdotal. This is not in our experience, you know, as a couple of dykes . But we had boyfriends before I was married for a couple months to a male. Amy: Yeah. So like, you know, we know what those situations look like. I, you know, I work with clients having their babies and I see really awesome things. And then these babies come and the whole thing comes down and rage starts and there's like the, you know, the free labor and motherhood. And like, this is all the things we're gonna be exploring in season one, starting in September but like we do wanna hold that the only way we can start doing this work is if we're not in constant anger stimulus, and for most people, when they walk in their door from working in or out of the home paid or unpaid or both, or all of the above you know, we have more of that stimulus that is causing that rage leaning to leading to burnout. Leading to sickness, like all of those things. So we do wanna flag that like really, the only way we can do it is when we're building these safe, loving bubbles, that we can have a pause from that stimulus. And, and so we have to have a place where we can like pause the rage feeling, and that can be really hard to cultivate, but we promise there's people out there that are also looking for places that are safe, loving bubbles, to have a pause for the burnout. And we wanna give a huge hat tip here to the Nagoski sisters, Emily and Amelia. They're doing beautiful work around the book burnout, and we can't say enough about it. It's all based in research. And it like really truly understand, like, give some more context and understanding this as well as the book.

Amy: 22:53

All the rage?

Bianca: 22:53

All the rage. Yeah. That that's the other one also really powerful. It has the research. If you have a husband, we encourage him to read it just to like start getting that context. And we obviously in your, in the relationships you've chosen to cultivate right now, we hope those are the places that you can start working to have those safe, loving bubbles. But like, we need, need, need to do that so that we can finally be like, wow, I'm feeling a lot of shame about this. But like, we can't do it if we're still mad about the socks on the floor and that the kids aren't ready for bed, and that you've had to ask permission to leave once this week and it didn't work out and you got text messages the whole time. You tried to go do something outside the home of where's this, and they're not sleeping. And I don't know how to do this. If you don't have this lived experience awesome. Please support your people around you that you love so they too can go through this awesome thing you've built. This is a shout out to Meg and Max who are doing this beautifully and a shout out to Michelle and Robert who are doing this beautifully and, you know, spread the word so other people can have this experience that you have. Okay, amy, what can we do with some of these big feelings?

Amy: 24:00

Yeah. Well, I think naming it is a start. I think what you're saying around cultivating safe spaces with your people and talking about these things, my guess is, when you start these conversations, you will probably uncover a lot of unexpressed and unaddressed, anger, and rage. And it's helpful. It's helpful to connect. It's helpful to feel less alone in these experiences and actually cultivate a safe space where you can talk about it and not feel judged and not feel like your mental health is being questioned, cuz you're raging at your partner because of the socks or because of the kids or whatever. Mm-hmm . And in addition to that, there are a lot of evidence based things. And within the book Burnout, which we both love very much and highly recommend you checkout, they talk about seven quick evidence-based things that you can do to complete the stress cycle. And we wanna really name this as a stress cycle, right? Like I think we forget sometimes that stress is a physiological event that's happening in our bodies. And so we need to complete it. And when we don't complete it, all of that stuff just lingers. And so. Some of the ways that they talk about include things like movement and that doesn't need to be signing up to train for a marathon. It could be having like a dance party that could be running around in the backyard with your kids. That could be a yoga class, that could be a bike ride, that could be a walk, that could be jumping rope, whatever it is.

Bianca: 25:32

It could also be a marathon as Amy and I are reformed marathoners

Amy: 25:38

Yeah. Yeah. I've run a marathon. It was terrible.

Bianca: 25:40

It was terrible. I did five.

Amy: 25:41

Yeah, it was terrible. So whatever you want, right? The point is not, this is not about, you know, your peak physical fitness or any of that stuff. This is simply about moving energy in your body and giving it an outlet to leave. Breathing. Really helpful, intentional breath, right? Where you're actually like spending time in your body, following the course of your breath. Laughter is a great one.

Bianca: 26:05

Love that one

Amy: 26:05

Affection, crying, positive social interactions, which is where the piece around cultivating community and actually having your people that you can call and say, I'm fucking mad about this thing. And they're like, yeah, I get why you would be, I've been there too. Onward, you know? So yeah, I think those are some of the ways and they're really, really helpful and really powerful. And it's, you know, really important to remember that we need to like complete on this stuff. We really, really do because unexpressed, anger, again becomes emotional stress. It is a physiological process that happens in our bodies and when we don't complete it, the stress remains there. And then we do get sick down the road. Dr. Gabor Maté wrote a really excellent book called When The Body Says No, The Hidden Cost of Stress, which argues that emotional stress plays a key role in the onset of chronic diseases and illnesses like autoimmune diseases, for example, which, and this is not by accident, two thirds of the people who are diagnosed with autoimmune diseases are women. Oh,

Bianca: 27:14

I have one of those.

Amy: 27:16

Yeah. I'm sorry about that.

So all of this to say: 27:19

connect with your anger, express it, deal with it. Deal with the emotional stress

Bianca: 27:27

And do it intentionally, which, you know, I know that sounds, we're just like adding more being like express it and do it like this. But like, I just wanna give a huge shout out to the women I've cultivated. And I y'all, I've had like a real wild ride to get here. So it wasn't like I stepped outta high school and found my solid group of friends and they're still here. Like I've had to have some not awesome relationships and like, you know, have some bumps and bruises to get to the place where I would say the only people in my life, my world is very small and they're amazing. And, and the people that you can show up really, honestly, with, so like Amy and I did a power walk this morning, cuz she's visiting out, we call it her country home cuz she leaves the city of Toronto and comes to visit me out in the sticks.

Amy: 28:07

We're sitting side by side recording this. It's the best.

Bianca: 28:10

But we were walking and Amy did a thing that she would do to cope any other place on the planet that's not with her platonic wife, that's me. And said like, well, it's fine. And I was like, "no, that wouldn't be fine. That would be terrible." And she's like, "yeah, that was actually terrible." And most of the time in our relationships, we let our friends say like, "It's not a big deal" or "Do you know what? We had a nice day last week. So like, my marriage is alright." Instead of being like, "Do you know what? It sounds like it's not all right." Like, it doesn't mean you jump and give anything to like move them in any direction because that's taking away autonomy. We want our friends to, you know, connect to their intuition, but just a place where you can be like, "that actually sounds really hard," or like, "sounds like motherhood is like, not as awesome as you thought it would be right now." And that's okay. It doesn't make you a bad mom. It just means you're having a time as a fill in the blank, sister, employee, mother, friend, daughter, wife, whatever

Amy: 29:04

Mm-hmm. Bianca: And so, you know, one of the people to have that space to cultivate is like give them permission and just like ask a little bit more and like flag those things to be like, oh, actually that would probably I'd feel really upset if I made holiday dinner and everyone was late and came inebriated. I'd be like, and if they're like, oh, well it was fine. Like the food was good. Which is what we do as women to keep in the likability and to stay in the positive quote, good range of emotions. She'd be like, are you sure? I'd feel really disappointed if that happened to me and that's okay if you did. Mm-hmm

Bianca: 29:41

And then it gives them the space to be like "oh, fuck. I've spent all week cooking and it like broke my heart and they do this every time. And I keep putting myself forward to be the host house and I'm like really tired of it" and be like, "yeah, mm-hmm yeah." And not, so I guess next time you're gonna say no, right? Not that just like, "yeah, that sucks."

Amy: 30:02

Yeah. Hear it, witness it, validate it, whatever the feeling is. And like, I say it's fine all the time. Also, it's fine is not a feeling. So a great follow up question. If you also have a friend who's like, "it's fine." Okay, and how do you actually feel? How do you feel about what happened?

Bianca: 30:24

Yeah, those are powerful and this will be the first place for most people that they'll be able to get under those feelings. Express that rage cycle move through that tunnel, cuz y'all we gotta go through the whole tunnel of feelings right on through. And instead, most of the time we, you know, tell a story about it, which I'm holding compassion. That's the most of the ways like how we can get through our days. To be like, it's fine because we've got 15 other things we have to do right now. And most of them will elicit a feeling that we have to say it's fine about. And we just keep doing it until we fall into bed, hopefully in a safe space. But for most of us, not so much even there too.

Amy: 31:05

Mm-hmm

Bianca: 31:06

So we wanna hold all of this. As you know, your rage is normal, your rage is healthy and there's ways in service of you that we can be talking about it and moving through it and completing. And targeting the people or organizations or systems that need to change. So we have lots of ways that you can join our community as a place to rage or to grow magic from those big feelings. Because, you know, we have a global movement that started with my deep rage pacing my kitchen. And now has grown and it's in, we're in 40 something countries around the world. And there's so many ways that you can hang out with us, both paid and free to be a part of this brave and incredible movement. We have continuing education. We do book club. It's bonkers y'all. We do games days. We have classes, program certifications and so much more. So please check us out. If you wanna have a place to have some of these conversations, we would love to have you. Thank you, Amy for joining us.

Amy: 32:09

Ah, it's been so, so wonderful. I think this topic is just so vital for all of us. And you know, on top of anger is healthy and anger is normal. Anger is also helpful. So it really is just keep that little nugget in your back pocket and you have all the Bebo babes here to chat about this. If you wanna talk more about it, this has been part of our summer sneak peak Sizzler reel, and we will be diving into season one in September. Thank you for joining us. And we will see you there.

Narrator: 32:45

If this has lit a fire and now you feel it's time to move, you are not alone. We have created a free webinar as a space to inspire and join together within the Bebo Mia community. Text webinar to 5 5 9 3 5 8 4 3 1 2. Or go to www.hotandbrave.com to grab your space in the free webinar. Once again, text webinar to 5 5 9 3 5 8 4 3 1 2. Or go to www.hotandbrave.Com to grab your spot. We will see you next time on the Hot+Brave podcast.