Hot+Brave
Hosted by birth worker and activist Bianca Sprague from bebo mia Inc (https://bebomia.com/), Hot + Brave is like a hilarious conversation with your feisty friend who doesn’t give a f*ck. Brave stories, business support, hot topics and #truthbombs that will either balm your soul or light fire to your rage.
Hot+Brave
S5E9 - The journey from maiden to mother with Anna Lundqvist
In this episode of Hot + Brave, we’re joined by Anna Lundqvist of Sacred Birth International (www.sacredbirthinternational.com) to explore one of the most profound and often overlooked shifts in a woman’s life: the transition from maiden to mother. Anna shares how birth can be reclaimed as a sacred rite of passage, what gets lost in our over-medicalized systems, and how we can honor the deep emotional, spiritual, and personal transformation that comes with becoming a mother.
Whether you’re pregnant, postpartum, or walking alongside others as a birth worker, this conversation is an invitation to slow down, remember, and reconnect to your own rites of becoming.
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You are listening to the Hot and Brave podcast with Bianca Sprague from Bebo Mia, where you will hear brave stories, hot topics and truth bombs that will either light fire to your rage or be the balm you need for your soul.
SPEAKER_03:Hello and welcome back to the Hot and Brave podcast. I'm your host, Bianca Sprague, and this is the podcast where we laugh and we rage and we talk a lot about birth. Before we dive in, just a quick update from the Babelmia universe. First, if you have been thinking about becoming a childbirth educator, now is the time. Our CBE certification program is$150 off right now with the very cute code WISEBIRD. That's all one word. Yeah, and this does work for payment plan as well I will also be speaking at the collaborative doula conference this May in a couple weeks in London Ontario it's going to be an incredible space of like learning and connecting collaborating which is what's in the name and you know we get to just do this as birth workers and change makers in the reproductive health space so grab your tickets if you haven't yet it would be so awesome for some real life time with my community with me and you and we'll get to hug and talk and that feels very exciting um also if you've been wanting some personalized support to grow your doula or your reproductive health business i've still got a few spots open for one-on-one consulting this spring um so if you are ready to build something sustainable and solo line just reach out i would love to support you Okay, today on Hot and Brave, we are diving into one of the most powerful and honestly one of the most overlooked transitions in a woman's life, and that's the sacred shift from maiden to mother. This is a very gendered conversation we will be having, and we were really holding space for this womanly transition. So if you, yeah, I just want to like hold that as a kind of caveat at the beginning, because this passage, it's not just about giving birth to a baby it's about giving birth to a whole new self and yet this culture we live in this profound transformation is often minimized medicalized or ignored completely like we really don't know what to do with it so to help us reclaim this deep the deep wisdom of this transition I am going to be joined by Anna Lundquist and she is the founder of Sacred Birth International she's also the host of the Natural Birth podcast and she's someone who has dedicated her life to midwifing not just babies but women themselves across the thresholds of their lives. So Anna brings this really rare perspective as a former midwife who walked away from the medical system to really embody this sacred art of what she calls midwitchery. So this is like tending to the spiritual and the emotional and these energetic layers of birthing and becoming. So in the conversation we're going to talk about what it It really means to leave the maiden behind. How to honor that grief that comes with that loss, which, you know, there's grief that comes with any transition or any change. And then how do we step into the fullness of the fire of motherhood? Today, Anna educates and coaches thousands of women on a daily basis through her online courses, her coaching mentorship programs, her podcast, her social media platforms, and it's all about claiming the right of passage and optimizing the chances of really having and empowering a natural birth and this nourishing, you know, peaceful postpartum. This is for anyone who has stood on the edge of something bigger than themselves and wondered if they were ready. So let's get into this conversation. All right, today we have Anna. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. I am so excited to explore this topic with you. We had a chance to talk about this before we went live and this topic this amazing kind of like sacred, these transitions from the maiden to the mother and then into the crone. And I was sharing with you and many of my listeners already know that I had a hysterectomy back in 2017, which I just deeply regret. But I did a lot of ceremony leading up to the day of losing my womb, which they didn't even let me take home that I really wanted. And a lot of the women, these like spiritual women around me were saying like, you know, this is a step into your crone state and I remember thinking like I'm in my mid-30s like I don't have I haven't gathered enough wisdom to be able to like impart into this next stage of my life and so I felt really like this kind of like complicated transition straddling which felt so different than this journey that I personally had from maiden to mother which are these like you know deeply spiritual and transformative times so I'm just really excited to explore this with you today welcome to the podcast So excited to be here. Thank you for having me. Okay, so I want to just jump in. So, you know, with at Sacred Birth International, you talk about this like birth as a portal. And I would love to hear how you see this kind of like transition of the maiden to mother as the sacred passage. Like, what does it encompass? Like, what happens in this journey, rather than just the physical event of birth? Yeah. lots of folks kind of have boiled it down to.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Wow. I mean, there's so much to unpack there, but if we go back to just like, what is a rite of passage, right? Because that's what we're here to talk about. is it is a life event where you're really transitioning from one identity to the other right and rite of passages as women we have three that are uniquely to us which is when we start our bleed when we go from you know young woman into becoming fertile and um you know being able to create life. That is our first rite of passage. Our second is the birth, is the birth portal, going through that, becoming pregnant, birthing a baby and transitioning into the postpartum. Massive changes within the brain and so much to unpack here. I mean, we only have a podcast hour or something. And then we have obviously menopause where we again transition. And, you know, there's this saying about, you know, when I got all goose bumpy. Yes, and obviously this is not known or talked about or really seen as such in our modern Western culture. We usually were medicated through all of these stages. Most women actually don't really have the full experience of being a cyclic being. She might go on the pill or get some sort of, you know, contraceptive that blocks the cyclic being of her nature. And as we go through the birth portal also, it's very much managed and medicalized generally for most of the population. So a lot of women don't actually meet this power or don't experience it as such. She more maybe becomes the patient. that is saved from this right. And the same with menopause. Again, a lot of women, most women will also be medicated through that. So we're missing, we're missing the experience. Now, I'm not saying that there's not a place for all of that to happen for some women, but I do not believe that we should do that to 99% of the feminine population. But that is what we're doing in our culture today. But then there's the other aspect which we're here to talk about as well, which is that spiritual aspect and the cultural, the emotional, the mental aspects of rite of passages. So a rite of passage teaches us when we talk about these feminine rite of passages, what it is to be a woman in our culture. So your listeners and yourself, I just want to take you back to when you had your first bleed, because that informed you about what it's like to be a woman in our culture. And for most women, if they tune in and look back, that was one of either neutrality or shame. Very few women in our Western culture that doesn't celebrate this, that doesn't honor this, that doesn't really honor actually the feminine in men or women or anyone in our culture truly. We're really into the very masculine kind of values in our world, which we all possess all of it. When a girl usually gets her bleed, it's either silent in her family or it's like, oh, are you in pain? Do you need a panadol? Like there's some sort of, are you crampy? Or there might be some judgmental comments or just, you know, not very positive. And usually that's also maybe around the girls. Maybe she's first or in middle or in the last. And there's always some sort of, ooh, I was first or I was last or it came at school and I bled through my pants or whatever. My dad told me, are you... Do you have PMS? There's like this negative connotation. We learn very early what it's like to be a woman in our society through our rite of passage, the first one, it informs us. Very rarely do a woman or a girl, I mean, hear, wow welcome to womanhood and now you can create life let me teach you how to move in your cycle so that you best are served by that cycle you know how we can actually as cyclic being live with our four seasons during the month so that we are harmoniously moving through life and not have maybe this really crampy painful periods or end up with so much disease in our wombs This is very correlated to the way we live, the stress levels, how we eat, how we are so disconnected to our bodies, shape, all of these things that sit so deeply, also rooted in how we met the first rite. Now, we're not here to talk about that. We're jumping into the birth portal now. But it really informs you, though, doesn't it? It informs you so early on. And you're also generally medicated. So when you get to this time when you're going to pass through the second rite of passage, so many women do it unconsciously. And also don't realize the massive shift she's going to go through. Not only as she conceives a baby does her brain starts to change and it continues through pregnancy, birth and postpartum for two years. She's losing gray matter. She's adding new pathways. She's reprogramming her personality. And this again... We meet like, oh, you have mommy brain. Oh, you're so forgetful. Or, you know, there's jokes, but there's like, it's usually a negative kind of way that you talk about mommy brain. And I talk about it. What a sacred gift. You can rewire your brain. You can choose now who you are today. You can totally transform and you can be, you know, active in that, in that doing. You don't have to be passive and this victim to it. No. What do you want to feed your brain with? You know, it's there, obviously, for us to be primed to be this amazing caregiver to our child, obviously. And that will be what takes up most of a mama's brain, especially, you know, in that beginning, the postpartum time, and it should. But then we also have the opportunity to be very mindful of what we feed our brain with, for example.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:As you see, I can talk forever about this. Is there something that's coming up for you that you want to stop me?
SPEAKER_03:Well, I'm... Okay, so I'm trying to like... I was processing as you were talking because I'm one of three sisters. I'm the middle. And my older sister, she's quite dramatic. And I was very like... She's an artist and I was very like logical and blah, blah. Anyway, so she's five and a half years older than me. And I remember when she got her first period, my mom... my parents are pretty woo woo so my mom had over her like women's circle and they she had sewn oh my god I'm getting like armpit sweats thinking about it she had sewn this really beautiful white nightgown for my sister and they did a ceremony for her with my mom's friends this like this rite of passage ceremony and I remember sitting at the top of the stairs looking down through the banister being like That looks like the worst fucking thing to ever happen. Like, I'd rather be dead than sit in the middle of that circle while these women do this, like, rite of passage ceremony. And when I got my period, which I got it, like, quote, pretty late relative to, like, the age. So I was maybe, like, 15. And I didn't tell anyone because I was like, I do not... want to be in a nightie with my mom's vegan homeschooling friends having this rite of passage ceremony. And interestingly, I did the same thing with my birth. So I've never been medicated. I birthed unmedicated. I birthed like Pretty powerfully, but alone. And then I parented alone and I like kind of went through these, but I, you know, there's times that I can feel like the isolation in it, but I actually found that I felt the most powerful when I was like kind of like recharging what I needed. Like I kept my own sacred space. And so I'm kind of I'm trying to hold how like listening to your words, the rite of passage being like, where did I sit? Because periods weren't that big of a deal in my house. But all I kept thinking is, I do not want this to be like a public declaration of this rite of passage. And I feel like that continued on through my stages. So I don't know. I don't know what you have to say about that. It made me laugh thinking about the ceremony of it being so honored and cherished in my family of origin.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. You know, there's no right and wrong, right? Some, you know, some who've had a positive experience, you know, might have had their parents go like, wow, now we get to go out and we'll shop something in red for you. There's some sort of significance or there's some sort of honoring or just like tonight we have a nice dinner, you know, whatever. It could be a marking like that or just kind words or something positive. It doesn't need to be a ceremony with woo-woo stuff, right? And it sounds like you just, you know, with the personality and the human being you are, that was just how you did not want to be. Yeah. a shameful experience that really, you know, and it's also, it teaches us about our culture at large, not just our family, but just like how we were treated at school by boys, by girls, by, by teachers. How did they speak about it? TV, you know, society as a, as a large teaches us as you know, what it means to be women in our culture through that. Right.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01:The same with going through the other two, which both very much pathologize as being woman, truly, and strips woman off her power. And even women who want to have a natural birth or want to claim it as her own, if they step in, which most people do, step into the hospital system, and even sometimes in the birth center and home birth midwives also, there is a... power imbalance where she still becomes um the damsel in distress and especially the first time when we talk about maiden to mother so there's a beautiful other saying that the maiden can't birth a baby she needs to step away and the mother need to needs to you know surface and she's the only one who is powerful enough to go through the right passage of birth and birth her baby it needs to be the death of the maiden and the birth of the mother through the birth portal and yes that you know that can happen in all kinds of births it doesn't have to be a natural birth absolutely not you can have an empowering and positive birth experience in any birth setting with cesarean with medicalized birth in all you know shapes and forms it is about how you are treated and the energy you come in with and if you're owning that experience or not if you are coming in as a patient or a victim or if you're coming in as that mama lioness choosing your medicalized birth choosing your cesarean whatever you're choosing that it's coming from a empowerment and not a victimhood or that damsel that needs to be rescued
SPEAKER_03:right yeah the loss of loss of your voice and um and like a feeling of a like failure already that like they had to I mean look at the language of birth um this language of like good thing we're here to save you from your body's inability to birth and I know I like roared into motherhood um like I don't know what happened but I hulked out of my maiden skin and I came like I just came to life It's when I started Bebo Mia. I just took on the world by storm and it was just really profound. And so with these transitions, obviously things have to, I mean, sometimes they have to die or they have to step away or we outgrow them. So what are some of the things you would identify from this journey from maiden to mother that we've shed in order to really step into that mother role?
SPEAKER_01:Some women will go through this. Clinging consciously or unconsciously to their maiden and never very lately in their life step into the mother. And you know them. You know women who are in their 40s, 50s who are still acting like 14-year-olds. So it doesn't necessarily mean just because you go through this rite of passage that you actually do what it's meant to be doing for you. Again, it is how we approach it. Whatever kind of birth we have, but there is something magical about physiological birth that we can't get away from. And that's not negating that sometimes it ends up being medical or we're needing other ways of birthing. But the physiology and the hormones does something very powerful to women. We experience the highest we can when it comes to the oxytocin peak. We have an altered stage of consciousness. you know, the rush of endorphins and opiates in our own system. If you've gone through it, you know that, I mean, so many women will exclaim hours or even minutes after birth, I want to have another baby. I need to do this again. They're ready to take on the world. Like you said, they become these really powerful women that know their worth and know their power and don't take any more shit. There's something that happens as you go through that and understand how powerful you are. If you've birthed a baby, you can do anything because it's bloody hard. And so it's just this massive challenge, right? This rite of passage. as she's showing you your power, as I said, right? We start to practice when we bleed. It shows to us really, truly through birth. And then we become it as we go through the fire of menopause. And so this is what 99.9% of women don't experience, unfortunately, in our current maternity system.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. It's almost extinct. Yeah, it is. And even like, when we talk is what is the role of mother? And really at this point, because of the patriarchy and white supremacy and capitalism, the role of motherhood is an enslaved role of just like adding more tasks to her to-do list. And so it's no surprise that it's really hard that I find women simultaneously don't step into the powerful role of mother because they're exhausted by the work of motherhood. And then they cling to like, I used to have fun going out dancing with my friends. I used to do all of these things. My body used to look like this. And so we're in this kind of like transition no man's like this, you know, this nothingness of exhaustion and this disconnect because we don't get to be powerful. We don't get to actually raise our children in a way that is like you know, the role of, of raising our children. Instead we, you know, keep them alive and fill out a lot of forms and buy them lots of shit. And, and so I feel like a lot of grief when I look at where motherhood is and what I wish for motherhood, like, which is, you know, why I started Babel Mia and I wanted to empower people going through this journey so that they could powerfully parent and, and, you know, go through, see their own kind of gifts come to fruition and pass them on to their children i
SPEAKER_01:think a lot of women when they wake up after having a baby the first time are like have this cold shower of realizing that we live in a society in a world that actually doesn't honor women or mothers and that very much like the old saying of like children supposed to be seen but not heard is also applicable to mothers that it's not a supported role, as you were saying. Some countries, I know, you know, Canada, Sweden, we have better kind of maternity leave and a bit of more support. Better. Still, I was going to say, still, it's not even coming close to what women actually need as they become new mothers. We don't have a support network. We don't live in the tribe, in the community like we used to. We're so isolated and alone. And some thrive like yourself. You know, we're all different there. But ultimately, whoever we are, we need the practical and emotional support and women are not getting that. And that is a massive thing that I think contributes to the high level of postpartum depression that we're seeing. I do not believe that all of that is chemical. I think a large portion of those women are just isolated and so alone and no one should mother alone if they don't want to.
SPEAKER_03:No, I mean, I would have really loved to have a great support network. I found myself mothering alone. That was not the plan.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And that's the thing, you know, it's, you know, that's the thing. So the rite of passage made into mother is it's so multilayered. So, yeah. there is that death of the maiden and the birth of the mother that needs to happen. We can talk about that, you know, the identity crisis that most women in our modern society goes through because no one talks about it. It's just that kind of, oh, sleep now before the babies come because then you can't. And, you know, but it's not really talked about as you know i see that you know having gone with walks with so many women through this portal that the ones and they are not many but the ones who truly understand that they are now actually sacrificing the maiden to go and they are willing to do so for the love of wanting to be a mother and have a child and they are surrendering into that role and they're surrendering their old life to to now dive into the new they move through this portal with much less frustration and doesn't end up in the suffering that so many women do as they kind of are hit with this postpartum going like oh I can't do all the things that I did before I thought I could just take my baby with me everywhere and just be the same person and they have to then go through that grief for maybe a very long extended period of time for a year or two years longer before they end up accepting where they are. And I wish women didn't have to go through suffering like they do, but that we can honestly talk about that it's gonna happen. There needs to be a death of the old and a birth of the new. You're not gonna, if you're very highly identified with your career and you have to leave that for a while, you have to find like, you have to find accomplishment and fulfillment in being mother and being something else than what you identify with. You can go back to that. You're never going to go back the same because you're going to be changed. Values are going to change. Your personality will change. It's going to happen. And if you don't accept that change, you are going to suffer until you do. What you persist persists. That's just the truth.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And I want to just clarify, because as we're talking about the role of mother, like it feels important to say what it is, because again, all people will typically say is like, I mean, the risk of hearing what you're saying is fall in love with filling out forms and driving to daycare and, and filling out, you know, buying birthday gifts for kids you'd barely know from Gymboree. And like, you know, that is That is not motherhood. So let's just clarify so that people don't think that in any way, shape or form, we're telling them to fall in love with their 24-7 job of cooking and cleaning and doing the act of the work of raising children. What is this role of motherhood? What does it include?
SPEAKER_01:Well, let's unpack that together. I mean, what does it mean for you? Tell me what that means for you.
SPEAKER_03:Well, One of the things that I found has been the most powerful for me in my role as mother is Continuing to very intentionally, consistently doing my own healing work and then teaching this to my daughter. And that takes a lot of time. Like that takes a lot of time, different modalities of integrating, of journaling, of Reiki, of breathwork, of Cairo massage therapy, like spending time in nature, like really being committed to doing better for her. And I would say that's like one of the biggest pillars. And it's the pillar that I've watched her grow. Like, cause obviously my work is getting like faster and easier the older I get. And it's getting easier to have the kind of relationship that's more adult because she's going to be 18 this summer. And so, you know, that work was critical and I got to do a lot of it through my actual paid labor, starting becoming a doula when she was a baby. And so I, I, I see the role of modeling for her. So like I came out again, I can't, I, I, I came out as gay in college and then was like, oh, I don't know how this is going to make my life really uncomfortable. And then was in a hetero relationship for two years and then came out again. And so I was like that act of living my truth and showing her as a baby and like having her see me you know, exist powerfully in the world and challenge systems and advocate to protect her voice. And, you know, these are the things, as well as some of the really important skills that I want her to have. So, like, it's important that she feels comfortable talking about money and politics and feels competent moving through her life, whether she wants to do those tasks or contract them out. But, like, I wanted her to feel competent as she existed in the world.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, it sounds like what I hear you're saying is that you're really embodying the mama lioness that we spoke about,
SPEAKER_02:right?
SPEAKER_01:That, you know, the protector and the provider and the sustainer and the nurturer of your child. And that is what being a parent, right? Motherhood. And then we can talk about what that looks like for everyone and different, you know, for everyone. But I guess it's the... I think to... survive also this world like we just discussed that doesn't support mothers or parents just doesn't support at all to be able to survive that and not drown potentially in what you just explained to really acknowledge that actually that this is the most important job on the planet and to like lean into the importance of every day, every mundane, boring, hard, exhausting moment that you have birthed new life. Your job now and forevermore is to serve this new being. And that might or might not sit well with you, but that's the truth. You've birthed new life. You are now the caregiver and the custodian of, you know, protecting and letting that human being obviously find their own feet and who they are in the world. You're not there to really influence that, you know, to support that new human to find their own way in the world. And that is the job of becoming a parent. That is the truth. job now not everyone and very many don't claim that role they might just want to have children but also live their life that they did before and not ready to claim that actually birthing new life does give you also the responsibility of being 100% 24 7 therefore a human being and when you have that realization and you and you accept it and you lean into it it can give you a great sense of purpose truly in life and what is life if not purpose without purpose and being of service actually there's no happiness now some people are like no no no but actually you know if you look at that research and everything what is happiness we're striving to be happy all the time we're not happy all the time but fulfillment contentment comes of being of purpose and self-service and that is motherhood that is parenthood And if you lean into that, you can, I think, more so easily handle all the shit show that goes on around you and how hard it is sometimes than if you resist that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And I fully, just everybody listening, because I know I had a really nice answer for what I think Raising Gray is and my role as mother, but my first years were so hard. They were so hard coming out. They were so hard in litigation, for custody, which obviously... I had all the time. They were so hard with postpartum mood disorder that was undiagnosed for two and a half years. And I felt like I could tell that I wasn't fulfilling my my role like the true essence of the role of motherhood and I remember feeling so angry about it because I was like I'm wearing you all the time I'm breastfeeding you I'm you're never put down you sleep with me and I was like so resentful but I was like doing all the things of like quote attachment parenting being like why is this so terrible and it's never ending and so like this is what you know Anne and I are talking about everyone is like it you it's like more about the what you're doing like the why and not the what you're doing because I was following the actions of you know really intense attachment parenting but I was suffering and hated I hated being a mom but I obviously had this like intense love and this like I want I want her to be wonderful and it wasn't until I stopped resisting which took a very many years after that to take up the like true role of motherhood And I had to do a lot of healing work with Gray to go back and say, I didn't honor my role as your mom, even though we were together all the time. And I like on paper was a perfect parent. And it's been profound. And just like if it's hopeful for anybody listening, it was such an easy process to heal from that once you name it. Like once I said to her, like, I wasn't present, even though I was next to you all the time. And I didn't know how to do this job. And I'm learning to do it with you right now. And kids are so... generous with their malleability and their open hearts and it was great because i could pick up even though i didn't really understand it until she was probably like 10 years old um and then didn't really really understand it until she was like 15 years old um and and so i just want to hold that in case anybody's feeling grief or like you feel like you might have missed that or done it wrong or like you you're interested in upholding the role of mother in a different way
SPEAKER_01:yeah and
SPEAKER_03:so
SPEAKER_01:You did the best you could with the circumstances you had. And I think one really, really crucial thing is to have radical self-acceptance through the journey in a fucked up world that doesn't support. If you had done all those things, but you had this massive support network that you could lean into and rest in that like 24 seven was around you could like also hold your baby, cook for you, clean for you, care for you, then you wouldn't feel so resentful. You would have been filled up by other people. We don't have that, but that is, that is the origin though. That's how we used to live not long ago. Also in our Western countries, we had our, we lived in, you know, more of like family, you know, units, maybe grandma and grandpa and mom and dad, everyone lived together or at least close by in the village. There was a totally different support network that we do not have. And so the role today is not almost possible to do. especially
SPEAKER_03:possible it
SPEAKER_01:is impossible so you have to have yeah well the thing so you have to have radical self-acceptance through this and you can only do the best of your ability and so you have to you can't blame yourself for that because you can't be super human you're not yeah you were never meant to be so i think radical like grace and compassion self-acceptance through this role is So important because you're doing it in a way that is, as you say, actually impossible to do it right.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, for sure. Oh my gosh, I have so many questions. One of them just popped in. I had one that I was going to ask, but I actually... How, as we're looking at the systems and the people around this person going through this transformation from maiden to mother, what are your thoughts or what comments do you have about... how terrifying that is for men in general. And so, like, how the role in the hetero context of the, like, role of fatherhood coming in simultaneously. Again, all my queers, we're talking hetero here. Like, what impact? Because, you know, throughout modern history, there's been a medication, there's been a numbing. Like, the whole idea is to... take away and rob women of their power. What do we do in this situation where it's terrifying to witness? And so we're having this dramatic pull with the role of mother and father and the complete inequity in everything that those two roles hold.
SPEAKER_01:What was your question in that? So if we would speak about just men, when it comes to birth, and also parenthood for that matter, but are even less prepared by society, less prepared, have absolutely no clue. If women have very little clue about the transition she's gonna go through, the man has none, and also no then understanding what's happening after she's birthed. So for a lot of women, for example, There is no desire, some have desire, but some have no desire for intimacy or penetration for months, sometimes even years postpartum. You know, being in the breastfeeding relationship, if she's doing that for a long period of time, her own identity crisis, navigating this new role that is not supported in society, drowning most likely in that and then having a partner that is not equipped doesn't understand the woman's needs or what she's going through the changes of her brain her whole chemistry and that she feels touched out most of the time doesn't want intimacy which for him is the way she shows love and he shows love so he doesn't feel appreciated and loved so many couples in the heterosexual relationships fail in the first year postpartum so many So many doesn't make it to one year because they're not prepared. No one's prepared for the relationship to change. The man's not ready for this woman to fully change. Maybe she was on the pill as well before. So she's doing a massive shift of how she feels about him or, and she's just in this mama baby unit, which is what nature intended, right? But in our society where there's this nuclear family and no one understands this, the disconnection happens for most couples, for a lot of couples anyways. So they're not equipped. And when it comes to the birth portal, of course, they're scared. Men have never been in the birth space throughout all of time. It's always been women's business. It's only really been, what, maybe 50 years that they've been divided in? Yeah, I was going to say 70 years. Maybe, different in every country. Yeah. Right? So it's like... It's really new and for most of that time also he has got no instructions of what he can do, how he can support his woman. I can't tell you how many as a midwife in the hospital I saw men sitting on their phones being disconnected as the woman is lying on the bed with an epidural and there's just absolutely total disconnection to what's happening in that room. But then there's some men that definitely steps up, more so in the home birth and birth center, birth space, because there is more of an awareness usually around those couples and those women choosing that. And that relationship usually is more also connected to those choices and wanting to be more sovereign in decision-making and educating themselves. And I've seen amazing men step up in the birth space. You know, his role is to be the present presence. That is his gift as the masculine, actually. They were amazing at anchoring women in labor and being a steady rock that is what she needs from him she doesn't need him to be in his feminine or like cuddle her he just needs to be present hold her be the anchor she can hang from him he can you know hold her up he can absolutely give her love and touch and words of affirmations but then she needs a feminine presence that has seen birth many times that can really help her through the scary part of transition when she's freaking out or when she's pushing her baby out the man in that moment usually doesn't know how to coach his woman through that that is where the wise woman sits at her side and helps her through that
SPEAKER_03:oh we've done such a number on birth this like such a powerful like oh my goodness uh um if we're looking at you know, what would be some words of wisdom that you would want to pass on to somebody who might be, you know, preparing to go through this rite of passage, assuming they have some time to maybe do some tweaking and fix some, plug some of these holes that we're talking about, even if they're not necessarily wanting a spiritual birth, but to like really prepare them for this rite of passage.
SPEAKER_01:Decide to claim it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That is not something that is just woo-woo and made up. It's very strong. And as women, when you're pregnant, the veils between the worlds are very thin and you have a stronger sense of inner knowing. And you need to trust that. You're also very malleable during pregnancy and very impressionable. So guard your space. Look within and find the answers and then go out and seek what you want. Whatever kind of birth that is that feels in alignment for you. and take charge in a way that prepare, learn about that. Learn also about, you know, seek out and learn about the maiden to mother transition and learn about, understand that you are going to go through an identity crisis, that that's supposed to happen. Your brain will change, your personality will change, your values and everything will change and start in pregnancy already grieve what you need to grieve because it's a part of it when you a part of you will die so the maiden will die so start grieving that which you will be losing and start preparing to step into the mother who needs to be this sovereign woman that will not take shit and will not be walked over you need to step into her because you're going to now protect another life so you can't stay in the maiden you need to step into the mother and this is something you can journal about you can talk about with others who understand this you know seek out that there are women and we have beautiful connections now all over the world through internet you know find your community online if you don't have it where you live because most of us are still spread out And don't live in community of amazing tribes of women that can support us through this, right? So seek them out online, right? And find your tribe that can support you as you navigate this rite of passage. And claim it. That's my words. Like claim it in your way, whatever that looks like. Don't give it away because someone else will claim it for you. Your doctor, the hospital, the midwife. Don't give it away. Claim it. Own it. Go into and meet your power. It's fantastic.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. You talked about reason. yeah be excited be very excited it's a profound experience um you talked about resources do you have a few books that you recommend that could kick off this exploration of these rites of passages for our listeners yes I do um I
SPEAKER_01:don't see anyways it's called um Rachel Reed Dr. Rachel Reed is an amazing midwife who's written a book called Childbirth as a Rite of Passage
SPEAKER_03:um
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And that was good for birth workers. It's a part of my Secret Birth Worker Mentorship curriculum books, you know, but also can be read by women who are really ready to claim her right. And in any birth setting. So Rachel is very good at just exploring, yes, rite of passages and within also the maternity setting specifically. So I would say that one. For a lighter version, I would say Gentle Birth, Gentle Mothering by Sarah Buckley.
SPEAKER_03:Good old Sarah. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Those two would be my probably my, because they work for anyone having any kind of birth. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Those are great suggestions. Many of our listeners are also birth workers. So what advice would you want to pass on to them so that they can hold the space, you know, and really like witness this rite of passage with their clients?
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So... I do massive unpacking with my students about two and a half months of the deep inner work and I would say that do inner work so look at your own rite of passages how did you experience your first bleed you know if you've birthed we don't want to carry like this baggage of our own unconscious baggage that we haven't worked through so your own relationship to your body sexuality your voice relationship to authority you know nature being a psychic being being a woman what what What does that mean to you? Because it's going to affect how you actually meet another woman in her labor process. You know, your own sounding like voice, right? So important that you clear your own throat chakra to be able to sit with a woman and maybe help her sound through your sound, right? We can deepen with a woman in labor as we're humming. So we're deepening our voice. We don't have to say words. We can do sounds. We can embody. We can sway with her, right? So I would say so much, I think, actually, the knowledge... is secondary anyone can be a good space holder in birth if they are if they can clean and clear themselves to become the channel between the heavens and the earth themselves if they can open up you know in the quantum field to their heart and womb and feel and sense and be very in tune with their intuition they're going to be the best space holder much more so than someone who knows all the books and all the knowledge about other things women don't need to know positions to being in birth or like spinning babies they need your presence That is unafraid. That is what you need to hold as a birth worker. That's all y'all. That's all you have to do. I know I'm passionate
SPEAKER_03:about this. If you could whisper one truth into the ear of every woman who is standing at this threshold between maiden and mother, what would you whisper in her ear?
SPEAKER_01:You're more powerful than you believe. And this portal is going to show you just how powerful you are.
SPEAKER_03:That's beautiful. Thank you. You have some interesting programs for both parents and practitioners coming up this month. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Well, yes. So this month, my sacred birth worker mentorship starts, which is a year long journey for anyone who wants to become a birth worker. So doula or doulas and midwives. And I also had a pediatrician go through it who wants to deepen into the sacredness of birth and really become this, as I spoke about this sacred space holder and cultivate themselves to become this very powerful presence in the birth room. So we begin on the 19th of May and there's still a few spots left as we're currently recording this if anyone's amazing
SPEAKER_03:and you have your natural birth course available too for parents right
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. That is evergreen. So it's always available. It's an online course that you can take in your own pace to prepare for a natural birth. So it's really primed to optimize your chances of having that if you wish to have a natural birth in hospital, birth center at home, so any birth setting. So it's also working a lot on that, you know, working through fears and the subconscious mind and doing more than just learning about the... the process you know and the physiology even though it's obviously you know also covering that or from that holistic and also spiritual way of seeing this this portal
SPEAKER_03:That's amazing. And we're going to have all your channels so that folks can connect with you and see what's happening with you and all the beautiful work that you do. I'm just so grateful that you are here today. I just I love your work. I think it's really important to not lose sight of this really profound element of birth that unfortunately is systematically stripped away. So thank you. Thank you for doing this protective work of that space.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much for letting me speak to you. It's been an absolute pleasure, both on and off recording. Excellent.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you so much. All right, y'all. Bye now.
SPEAKER_00:Want to keep hanging out? We have created a free mindset mini course to help change makers and birth workers find bliss in their business. You're not in this alone. Let's build together. Head to www.babomia.com slash VIB to grab your space and a free retreat. Once again, go to www.babomia.com slash VIB to grab your spot. We will see you next time on the Hot and Brave Podcast. podcast.
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