From M&A in Africa to Enterprise Wireless Infrastructure, DC Moore of ATG

DC Moore is a mid-career searcher and the new CEO of Atlantic Technology Group, an enterprise wireless and mobility infrastructure provider benefiting from durable tailwinds tied to 5G densification, in-building connectivity needs, and rising mobile data demand.

With a path that includes Georgia Tech (electrical engineering), Wharton, and time at Motorola, Lockheed Martin, and McKinsey, followed by more than a decade in Africa doing M&A and operating leadership, DC brings a fundamentally different profile to ETA than the typical post-MBA searcher.

Instead of buying a simple business and replacing the owner, DC deliberately sought out complexity, kept the founder on, and structured real alignment around long-term growth.

In this episode, DC discusses:

• Why ETA appealed to him as a way to combine acquisitions with real operating authority rather than just board-level investing
• Raising a traditional search as a mid-career operator and challenging some of the stereotypes around who “fits” the model
• How a failed deal process with ATG turned into a better partnership by preserving trust with the seller
• Structuring meaningful rollover equity so the founder remains economically and emotionally invested in the next phase
• Managing unexpected hockey-stick growth, especially working capital strain and building hiring systems before scaling too fast

Find us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and YouTube. 

Transcript

DC Moore

00:00:00 Nick LALL: Welcome to search funded the entrepreneurship through Acquisition podcast. I'm your host Nick Lall, and I'm here today with DC Moore. DC is a searcher who has acquired a great search fund business, and prior to that has a really interesting background, which I definitely want to dive deeper into as well. In addition to studying electrical engineering at Georgia Tech and getting his MBA at Wharton, he spent the first decade or so of his career in the US at Motorola, Lockheed Martin and McKinsey, and then after that spent more than a decade in Africa doing M&A there before coming back and buying Atlantic Technology Group, which he's now running, and it's an enterprise wireless and mobility solutions provider. Highly recurring revenue, pretty recession resilient AI resilient. So very interesting search fund business. And I want to learn more about how that's going and how you found it but I think a are a few other interesting topics that I definitely want to cover in this podcast as well. One is that DC, he's not just a fresh MBA grad who went out and bought a business. He was someone who had pretty deep experience not only in acquiring businesses, but also, highly specialized industry expertise. And so I think that led to his success here. And it's a little bit different from maybe the typical search fund investor thesis. And this podcast is about diving deeper into are there new ways of doing things, are there better ways of doing things. And we're also really interested in emerging markets. So I'd love to learn more about his experience in Africa. But before getting to all of that, we'd love to just learn about your search fund journey. What made you interested in doing a search fund? What was the process that made you decide, okay, I'm going to leave what I'm doing M&A in Africa. I'm going to go search for a business. what was the inspiration? What was the process that led you from all of your past experience to what you ended up doing now?

00:01:50 DC Moore: Yeah. So, started out electrical engineering, started out in telecoms at Motorola. I worked there when I was at Georgia Tech, part time, and continued to work there full time. thought I was going to go into the military coming out of undergrad, and I was in ROTC, so didn't really have career plans for myself. Just I was a military brat, so felt like it's a natural fit. Hopefully retired at some point, maybe do something else or hang out in the beach. had, reached, I guess, graduation and, got medically disqualified for a basketball injury. So I had to sit back and wonder, like, what I would do the rest of my life. Like, actually make career goals. Hadn't recruited, hadn't thought really long term at that point, and was lucky enough to have, a captain in my detachment and was like, hey, you should check into business school. Great for leadership. You know, it kind of fits your personality. Gives you more time to sort of think about what you want to do. Spend a lot of time researching business schools. Where I wanted to go was one. And then what happens typically right out. But as you're, writing the essays, you sort of say what you want to do long term. They force you to think longer than that two, three, four years. and my essay was about, what did I enjoy? I really like learning, didn't know anything about business because I was just an engineer going in, but knew eventually I'd want to be able to, like, kind of similar to sports, like, put points on the board based on how hard you work. Right? Like you see the results of like those early days in the summer. Not not like I'm a professional athlete or anything, but you always know that you put the work in and you see the results on the court or in the field. And I felt like, the only way I could do that was as an entrepreneur, didn't have any capital and wasn't lucky enough to grow up with like a safety net, but knew that if I could do the right things, maybe save up some capital, learn enough about business, and then, I could do something a bit more entrepreneurial and want to have a pretty well rounded toolkit. So you fast forward did Motorola did. Lockheed Martin went to business school with that as my essay. didn't know what that looked like. Didn't know what private equity was. Definitely didn't know what a search fund was going to business school. But if you would have asked me, like if there was a checklist of search fund qualities, if you were to ask me about that going in, I would you basically said, oh, you want to be in a search fund, right? You want to start a search fund? So, not knowing what it was, I was like, all right, I'll do McKinsey afterwards. And then after that, I'll try to get out of McKinsey and figure out a way to do acquisitions, but also run a business. really enjoyed McKinsey, learned a lot, but also figured out that, you had to choose some path in the US coming out of a consulting firm like you're going to be in strategy office, which was not something I wanted to do. ops, I did not feel like I was ready to take on a big PNL. Even if somebody would have given it to me, maybe not. and then M&A, you'd have to get lucky to sort of, at least back then find your way into, like, private equity, coming out of consulting firm. So I felt like I have to choose one of these three roles. And wherever I go, I will probably hate myself. It'll be very corporate. And, don't feel like I'm a very corporate guy. So, yeah, I had some experience in Africa while I was at McKinsey. It was one of the reasons I chose the firm. Back then, we were the only firm that had, Africa office. so I went there in two thousand and eight, really enjoyed it, spread my network there, had friends that were there like really close friends and then decided to, just move there with without a job. once I moved there, I already had my friends there, so, like, check, I was comfortable, already had potential, clients there. I had people to help me navigate. And what I was looking for was, I felt like in South Africa, I could get, this white space to where I could do investments and operations and strategy and leverage. Everything that I've done up to that point got lucky, met, had a couple of folks who were on the board of a listed infrastructure business that recommended me to do a project with them. So I was sort of doing my entrepreneurial thing, consulting gigs, worked with the company, and the CEO was like, hey, if you want to stay with us or I really want you to stay with us, why don't you draft your own job description? I'm sure it'll fit sort of value add for us in this business. I was still hesitant because I didn't consider myself an infrastructure guy. Like, I knew the concepts, but I always looked at infrastructure is boring, slow moving, bureaucratic and, drafted a job description. He was like, you give me six months and I guarantee you want to stay, right? And obviously, I sort of built up my title to chief investment officer. We were a listed company. I was definitely underqualified to be a chief investment officer of a listed company at the time. Didn't know anything about anything outside of McKinsey from the business side, but kind of grew into the role with the help of the board and help of, CEO and CFO and, other folks. So did that about eight, nine years. the thing I enjoyed about the gig was I had a chance to sort of, let's say forty percent of my responsibility was M&A, forty percent, let's say forty five percent M&A, forty five percent operations. So helping lead our subsidiaries, especially the smaller ones, and then ten percent reporting to the board and to investors. And it was a really good time for me, really good exposure, a lot of good mentorship, um, an experience I wanted to replicate. And I went in thinking like, hey, I'll do this for five years, and then I'll leave and do something entrepreneurial because it'll allow me to learn enough to be dangerous. Have a toolkit. I ended up doing for eight or nine years. and I was lucky enough to talk to a buddy of mine, who's now an investor, named Matt Zucker. ETA equity. He and Mark Sinatra, friends that play ball with me. When I was in business school. I caught up with him at, like, a social event. I'm like, what are you doing? He's like, I'm doing a search fund. I'm like, what is that? This is, way after business school. He's like, explains it to me. I'm like, oh, man, this guy must have like, some hookup. Like, there's there's no way this is like a common thing. And it always sort of stuck with me. Like, that's really cool. I love the investor alignment. I love the fact that you can do both ops and M&A. I love the fact that, like just going back to what I initially said, you put your own points on the board, right? It's about how hard you work and a little bit of luck and who you have around you. From a from a systems perspective. so when I was deciding to leave my business, my last role, I wanted to do that, but I wanted to do it in Africa since I already had a pipeline, already had a network, tried to to do it in the LPs in Africa were like, what are you talking about? I've never heard about this thing. It's stupid. And yeah, I was like, incentives are aligned. It's perfect. I'm not trying to take a lot of money. I don't need fees. Just give me a salary. I can do this. And I've done it before. And basically I was convinced to, try to start an African private equity fund. So I brought in a friend of mine who she had a great, background, also both investing and operating. we tried to launch a Find Covid hit, which extended things especially makes it harder to fundraise for a place like continent. spent more time here at home and then decided to sort of pivot. Went back to to my buddy Matt, and, he sort of told me to lay the land, talked to another buddy who had done it successfully and got introduced to, Mark Egan, another guy from, from our business school. So just a really good warm intros and just sort of went about raising the fund. it was a really good experience. I think when you're mid-career, you kind of sense who's in and who's not after, like your first five pitches, like you kind of know, they're not going to be in. They'll be in. And, but the thing is that everybody was courteous. Everybody was very collegial. Everybody was helpful. And they continue to be till this day.

00:09:43 Nick LALL: Definitely. Yeah. it's definitely about the relationships. And I think that we're seeing ETA expand really quickly. But, for a long time especially, it was just kind of a closed group of people. And so really getting to know those, those right people was, part of what was key to getting successful. Um, before we move on to your search fund journey, something that you said that stood out to me was that you moved out to Africa without a job, and it was really just relying on knowing a lot of people out there and the success that you'd have, you'd had previously at McKinsey out there. And then even after you started working out there, it was again through a relationship that someone said, just create the job that you want, sort of. And that's how you became the chief investment officer. I was wondering if you could think, are there any. attributes that you had or ways that you showed up in your job that gave people that confidence in you to allow you to create your own job the way that you did? And I mean, obviously, they had a lot of trust in you that you were going to be able to do that and do well at it.

00:10:45 DC Moore: I think so a few things were were luck and a few things, maybe, sort of background. I think the lucky parts were I was in a network of folks. So ex-pats in South Africa tend to stick rather close at times. And, there were two people on the board that, like, were one degree of separation from me. And the two of them weren't even that close, right? They knew each other, but like both of them were like I think one recommended me and the other recommended me because they knew me too, while I was doing sort of my job search. So I was pure luck, right? I think I also got lucky in that the CEO, was pretty worldly, right? sometimes in South Africa, at least when I was moving there. I think it's probably changed a lot since then. sometime I moved there, if you were like, hey, I have an MBA. Like, people would laugh at you, right? Like, people in, like, especially South Africa, it's like you're either a chartered accountant or an engineer at that time. And if you weren't a chartered accountant, you basically couldn't rule anything, right? And yeah, it's always this engineer versus chartered accountant thing. But chartered accountants ran South Africa and they still do. But I think there's a bit more appreciation for different backgrounds. I'm not saying MBA is all special, but there's a bit more of appreciation for that now than there used to be back. I think that at some point when I was there, they did a study. Somebody wrote an article about the amount of chartered accountants that are running Johannesburg Stock Exchange listed firms, and I think it was ninety five percent. Right, which is completely different from if you came to the US, if you were like, hey, charter counties are running around ninety five percent of the New York Stock Exchange. People would, like, laugh. Right. That's a different world. Not saying one is better than the other, because I don't want my friends to like me or anything. So I got lucky in that I had a CEO who I guess had appreciation for my background before, enough to give me a chance. Plus, the board members helped. Plus, the time I spent in on the continent in two thousand and eight helped. And it was before, McKinsey went through some rough times in South Africa. It was before those times happened so that all that luck had nothing to do with me. in terms of navigating, when I started and being able to build relationships, being a military kid, really helps, right? Because every two or three years, you're sort of changing destinations, hoping you don't get beat up when you get to a new school. and you kind of learn how to change your environment without changing who you are. And I think that skill set sort of helped me, as a consultant, but also helped me, once I moved to the continent.

00:13:17 Nick LALL: Yeah. Super interesting. I think that those childhood experiences really shape, the good and bad, how you're able to show up in the world and definitely, clearly you're someone who has done really well with that being able to do that. Places like Wharton in the military even in Africa. really cool Moving on to the, search fund itself. When was it that you decided to start it and sort of what was, did you go in with a thesis? What was your approach to the search fund raising, it, surging, all that.

00:13:43 DC Moore: So I was, we had started to see this, luster for, Africa fundraising To sort of, it started to lose its luster a bit because of the Covid thing. Right. When we launched, because both my partner and I were spending a lot of time here and we started thinking, all right, why don't we just do deal by deal, whether it's the continent? And then, slowly, I started to shift here and then had to think about a model like, am I going to, try to do an independent sponsorship model? Would I do like a self-funded search? Would I do a search, talk to to the same buddy Matt and, start walking him through deals, talking to other friends about deals that I was looking at here and sort of felt like, all right, I should sort of just pitch my tent back home. there's a lot happening here. I know the environment. There are a lot of lessons I could take from what I did on the continent. I have a huge network here, Why not start looking here, then? I had to think about. Do I want to do, independent sponsor route? Do the independent sponsor route, or do self-funded search or search felt like. with the independent sponsor route, the expectation was, you know. You'd invest and you have multiple companies. So you're kind of an investor. You go to board meetings. And maybe you could run the business. but the model was typically I felt like sort of. More skewed towards not operating. And the one thing I knew from my previous experience. what I loved about my previous experience is that we would every year monitor the environment and say, all right, this isn't a good M&A environment. Let's just drive value in the business. And I love that way more than I loved sort of make an acquisition and sitting on a board and maybe giving advice to a CEO. Um, so then I had to choose between self-funded and traditional and for me, self-funded. Like there's some really good aspects. But when I talk to people, a lot of things folks would say they wouldn't start with the things I thought were were positive about it and they'd say, I want to be my own boss. Or oh, I want lion's share of the economics. But, handling the two, the latter first, like, lion's share of economics. If I could do a bigger deal. Right, even if I get a smaller share, that's just math, right? You could figure out the pros and cons there. And I want to be my own boss. look like I was at a listed company. We're three hundred million dollars. And the CEO still had a boss that was the board, right? And board still had their bosses with their investors. Like, Warren Buffett has a boss, right? Or an investor. So like, yeah, especially not having that much experience like that was just not. I did have experience, but I still think I have a lot to learn and ways to grow. And only way to do that is working with people who are smarter than you, while setting so your guidelines around how you're going to sort of management making sure there's alignment. So in the traditional search, start talking to my buddy and start, exploring the pros and cons. And what was important to me during the fundraise was like, I didn't want to, you know, everybody has the same BPM, right? And then you have small parts about who you are. I wanted to dive deep on, like who I was personally, my experience type of businesses. I'm looking for how I might be atypical because I wanted people to self-select if they were going to back me or not. I didn't want to hide it to where it's like, oh man, if I like, turn off an investor and I'll miss out on raising cash. for me let's be super transparent so people where there won't be a natural fit, you can head that off now because they could just walk. Right. And the folks who think there may be a fit will look to back you, and you'll find your natural backers. And hopefully that leads to a a better next stage, right? Like, one of the things I've learned is always look at next step. How do I set myself up today for like, whatever that next one or two steps might be? And I felt like, um, trying to hide, sort of be less transparent about who I am in order to raise capital wouldn't be worth it, because there's going to be a surprise someday. And that won't be good for for either party. So had, the folks in my network give me warm intros to people they thought might be good investors. And I think they tried to keep me away from folks who, they felt like they probably couldn't be a fit. They've known me for like twenty years at this point, fifteen, twenty years. So it's like, they know me better than than most. I think I got introduced to the right people. Not everybody said yes. I found that, sort of traditional traditional search fund investors shy away from, mid-career. They had their reasons, and you kind of understand that. But then there were others that didn't. And plus, I had a network of folks who had a mix of high net worth folks that were not search fund investors but knew me. so I think that helped. So it took me about three months to raise and then sort of launch.

00:18:30 Nick LALL: Yeah, I think the authenticity piece just makes everything more simple, whether it's, raising even when you're looking at the businesses. I mean, you want to show up authentically with the seller because not only is it going to help you close, most likely it's also you don't want to end up in the business that's not the right business for you. So I think just simplifies everything throughout. I guess just moving through the different stages of the search. How was the search process? how long did that take? How did you find the business that you ended up closing on?

00:19:00 DC Moore: So, search process was there was a lot I learned, I mean, just even the tools using like, I had never really used a CRM before or Automated sort of email outreach. there's some things that came naturally. Me like my intern teams. I had really good intern teams because at McKinsey, you learn how to develop people. you know, what are the tools? How do you speak to them, how transparent with folks? So I think my most, I would say at least sixty seven percent of my interns really enjoyed the experience, and hopefully it helped them get like, really good jobs. That was one of my big concerns, finding deals, you go peaks and troughs because during the year you have times people where people are more responsive, less responsive. economic news could change the way that people reply to you or respond to you. I found that there were some sectors I visited where I just didn't fit right, like I found a business in, like healthcare sector, they sold consumables, really attractive business. Great founders. I really fit with them. I thought, but when I went to like a conference with them, I didn't fit with the rest of that, that industry. So it wasn't comfortable for me. the space I ended up in telecom, digital infrastructure. Yeah. That's where I started. so that helped. And, I started to navigate that space a lot. My, business that we ended up, investing in and buying, going into the space again, I wanted to be a traditional searcher so I could do a bigger deal, more complex deal. What I think was atypical is I wanted the owner to stay. So not only was I looking for a good business, but I wanted an owner who wasn't just trying to throw me the keys and run. I wanted somebody who, I wanted the business to be complex and difficult enough to where I needed that person. If it's something I'm not confident enough to think I could take over a great business, that isn't simple and just run it and do well, right? I think I have things to add with the person who founded the business. So trying to find those two things, that's what I was searching for. Business. I'm excited about where I think there's immense growth potential, but also want an owner who would be a partner with me on that journey. actually found, Atlantic Technology Group in twenty twenty for, the owner and I were talking. We still hadn't confirmed anything. Then we started to move into, maybe doing something. and it took so much longer than I envisaged that, like, sort of breaking the deal was my fault. Probably could have communicated timelines a bit better, probably could have expedited things. But, the profile of the business was different from what my search investors were accustomed to, and I needed to make sure I did the diligence to make sure that they were by the time I, you know, almost all of them already. He was like, I'm tired of this, right? For good reason. Stayed in the sector, found a bunch of really good deals. some owners I clicked with, some I didn't. but I found that, hey, I know Dan is, built a successful business with a great team. Why not leverage him as a sounding board for these other businesses we find? So I go back to this owner and I'm like, hey, it didn't work with us, but we'd love to get your insight right. Like always, could learn from somebody who's done a great job in the sector. And we start talking. We start realizing like, oh man, ATG would be a great platform for a lot of these businesses, right? There's a lot of room for growth. a lot of room to take. You know what ATG does? Well, please. Customers responsiveness, managing sort of outcomes. sales like excellent sales team. We could take that to multiple companies within the space, and we could launch multiple offerings in the space that would be successful. So he and I revisited the deal and, consummated the deal with four months ago, a little bit over four months ago, four and a half months ago. And it worked out well. I got really lucky in that it's a great business. great clients, blue chip clients that are really happy with what we do. Dan has been a great partner in growing the business. Like, if we have disagreements, we talk it out. have a great team. Did not expect the team to be as great as they are. Like real ownership, real drive determination in terms of like, pleasing our clients, treating our partners fair. Like I said, great clients, but also great partners, channel partners, suppliers. I couldn't be more more lucky, in terms of the business that we have right now.

00:23:34 Nick LALL: And it's waiting. That speaks to keeping up the relationships with whatever owners or investors or anyone that you talk to. Because even if something doesn't work out when you think it will. Just keeping that relationship open, there may be, whether it's with that person or someone they might introduce you to, there's always something that can come from it. So yeah. cool to to hear that it worked out that way. two questions about the way that you're approaching it, because it is definitely different from the traditional search fund idea of the owner should be retiring or selling or getting out of the business. And a lot of search fund investors are not comfortable with the owner staying on. I was curious, is that something that you talk to your investors about at the beginning? And you said that this is going to be my strategy. And, first of all, the question would be how, did you get them on board with that? And then also with the seller, like, how did you structure it in terms of was there is there, sort of earn out period or something, or, what if you're willing to talk about it?

00:24:31 DC Moore: Yeah. So I was pretty upfront with my investors and my PM like, hey, I want a business with enough complexity where I'm begging the owner to leave, and I'm pretty sure that turned some people off. Right. especially traditional search fund investors. You never know what turns people off, but I'm sure that was one aspect of it. And when they asked me about how am I thinking about the risk, I'd be transparent. Like, the good thing about Africa, you just wake up thinking about risk, right? So, I try my best to look around corners, way before I would have normally before I moved to Africa. I think it just it enhances your risk mitigation and the way you think about things. so, yeah, I communicated that, and in terms of keeping him alive, one, the beauty of, what we do in search is that you also give an owner an opportunity to focus on the things that they really love doing. And my partner is like a great sales guy. I mean, I'm just like I listen to him talk. I'm like, man. he really understands his client. He understands their pain point. He knows how to take it away. He doesn't try to gouge. He doesn't try to upsell. He just tries to do a great job for the customer. And our teams inherited those characteristics. I guess my presence has allowed him to focus on sales, and I take on all the other things associated with growing the business, maturing the business, institutionalizing the business, rolling out strategy, taking on, more complex work, making sure the operations can keep up with the sales, raising capital as needed. there's a lot of stuff that I take on, right? so real partners, I think in growing the business and even the board, like the board's been great. Have an excellent board. Excellent investors. the first piece of keeping him aligned was, really giving him the role that, the focus that he really wanted. I think the other thing was we structured the deal, there's a note, but but we also had rollover equity. I wanted to make sure it stayed above a threshold to where it wasn't like de minimis for him. So he is the third largest individual investor after me and another investor. And so and he sees the upside now right. Like I think we've done a really good job and we're just getting started. But he sees the upside of there are clients who who need these services. there are partners willing to support us and, supporting our clients and supporting the market. So, we're all excited and I think the rollover equity incentivizes them. We did have I wouldn't even call it an Earnout. It was more like, hey, let's just make sure we don't fail because we're a project type business. So it's not recurring revenue, it's more repeat revenue, but let's just make sure we don't drop, you know? so like that. I don't think that keeps him excited. Right. he's not worried about that part. He's more like, alright, how much can we grow this thing.

00:27:22 Nick LALL: Yeah. Really interesting. From what I've heard, that upside is working out really well and you guys are growing very quickly since you joined the company. And, that partnership seems to be very effective, maybe could just talk a little bit about the company, what it does, and, what are some of the ways that you guys have grown I might have a few other questions. The business.

00:27:41 DC Moore: So, yeah, two sort of main offerings, the legacy offering, the way they started the business was mobility, so that we would, let's say a law firm or a construction firm sets up and they need handsets or tablets, we'd find ways to purchase that for them and provide it a cost effective price. We'd work with the carriers to deliver it to them, get it provisioned. and that was a lot bigger, more vibrant market years ago, less so now. But there's still a need for it. And I think, um, IoT devices and systems probably open up, open it up a bit more. but that's the way they started out. That's probably like, say, five percent of our business now. So it's not huge. the rest of it is sort of last mile infrastructure for, connectivity. So, any wireless, let's think in cellular or even satellite ensuring that signal gets to the device or the tablet or the IoT device or, wherever it's needed. That's basically what we do. And there's a few trends that are sort of change and made this much more vibrant market one, the cares of they haven't finished, but they put in 5G, which has all these features, but it hasn't been standalone. But as you think about 5G, frequency increases, which means the distance that the signals carry gets shorter. So as we roll out 5G fully and then go to six G. And as we look at the way we build things here in the US, type of materials, those signals have a much harder time penetrating buildings. So we put in infrastructure that ensures the signals penetrate right. Like most most calls are taken inside a building, not outside. And then there's this higher consumption of data on mobile devices that also helps, increase demand for us. so as those things continue to happen, People take more calls on mobiles and people require more data in a mobile environment. Yeah, I haven't heard anything that says that's going to happen less so. So we have like you know really good tailwinds in that. So that's sort of what we do a factory or a hospital or a school or utility will call us and say, hey, we're having connectivity issues and it's not just one provider, it's two providers. Or maybe it's one provider like carrier, I mean, but we fix those issues and the guys do it well. They do it quickly. They do it in a cost effective manner. I think, what's helped our growth since I've come on board is really just Dan and the team being able to focus more on sales, and I try to take up more of the admin stuff. I haven't added value in that way, I think. Right, like I could problem solve, but like, we just have a really good team that's led to all this growth. So I can't really take credit for it. we have added. So I was the first engineering hire for the team. and then I'm not a real engineer. I stopped being a real engineer a long time ago. We added, someone who's, like, head of operations and technology for us, who's a proper engineer, has been at it for twenty five plus years. And I think he's expanded the aperture in terms of what types of problems we're going to solve now, whereas before we'd have to depend on, supplier, manufacturer to help us engineer things like we now have that capability in-house and we're already seeing like, that team meeting that thinking we're already seeing sort of the benefits of that. And again, I don't think I've really added much value yet.

00:31:19 Nick LALL: I was wondering if. Since you guys are going so quickly, I was wondering how you balance being new to the business and stabilizing things sort of, and having the owner there. Obviously the original owner there obviously helps to a great extent, I'm sure. But you know, this is not, like corporate life. This is a very quick going business. So just curious the challenges there and what you're doing to manage it, what you foresee being necessary to manage the business going so quickly.

00:31:47 DC Moore: Yeah. So I guess the most difficult challenges, right. I would say, one is unexpected growth, two is sort of introducing sort of new things that you think are better for the business and long term, even if it costs you in the short term. those are sort of two biggest things I struggle with. Right. one on the growth side, the way I modeled this business out because so many investors are like, hey, you got to think about you're going to have a downturn. Everybody takes a step back as soon as they come in. Yeah. Your revenue is going to plummet. And like all these horror stories about how like, you're going to take a huge step back. so I modeled a flat and I modeled like a, a downturn thinking like, man, ninety five percent of my attention needs to be on these two scenarios. And what I'm going to do when that happens, not if what I didn't factor in is, what if you have like sort of a flat first month, slightly down second month, and then you have this huge hockey stick in your third month? In a business like ours, that means you procure equipment for stuff you're going to do over the next one or two months, right? Which takes out the cash cushion you had completely. So there are negative aspects to to growing that if you only focus on the negative side of, of what's going to happen when you take over the business, you don't factor in like, man, if we grow too quick, have I prepared for that? Like, am I going to constrain the business because I haven't prepared for it? So that's led to like some sleepless nights at times, right? Because you don't want to constrain the business. You want to reward your guys for doing the right thing, which is growing the business. but managing like working capital for something like that, it's tough. I think the only thing that prepared me for that wasn't even Africa. It was like growing up and having to manage capital for like or budget for me, my mom and my brother. Right. Like that. That's the type of skill set that it took to to actually do it the right way, I think. and then on, you know, sort of introducing stuff, right now we still have a tension at times where I was like, hey, we need to hire because we're going to grow. We have all this opportunity. We don't want to let it, fall. but if we don't hire people the right way, if we, before, when you're a small business, you could just bring somebody on board. Doesn't work out. You let them go. But if you want to build, like a real formidable company where human capital is important because that's what you have. You don't have fancy IP. You're not manufacturing anything. You need to be twenty out of ten when it comes to being able to hire and develop people. How do you define their role when they come in? how do you take them through their paces on the way in? Right. Like, what do they have to do first, then next? how do you evaluate people? How do you give them feedback? How do you coach? How do you provide tips? How do you introduce them to clients? How do you introduce them to an operational environment? Like those are things you have to think through. I think, learned a lot about that in Africa because human capital is so important. I learned a lot about that at McKinsey. Right. where there's real intent around that. So I've tried to take those lessons and incorporate those in. And, I think I frustrate some of my team members because I'm like, guys, I could throttle growth right now. My investors will be fine if I go to them and say, hey, I want to stay flat for a year, year and a half, so that we put the systems in place to allow us to hire, develop people, source from local universities or local technical schools and do the right things and then start looking at growth. My investors will be fine with that, right? so I do have the leeway to do that now. But what I can't do is three years down the line, we start growing and then all of a sudden turnover increases and all of a sudden you're paying like unemployment to like a whole team full of people because you haven't prepared them for coming into your business. Like, that's just that's a bad move, right? That's not a more valuable company. Right? Like you're living day to day and human capital is like your most important thing. So, that's that's also been a difficult sort of tug of war, but we're getting through it.

00:35:49 Nick LALL: Definitely a tough decision with good a good business, I would say. because maybe as we are running up in time. I just want to have a few questions about your time in Africa. I was wondering, you thought about doing something similar there and ran into Covid and all that, but maybe just curious if you have a general, broad thoughts on if search funds are viable on the continent. If so, maybe if there are particular countries there that might be a better fit than others? And also just what might make doing a search fund in Africa different from doing it in the US.

00:36:23 DC Moore: So my view is that there's tons of human capital, Africa, like, I mean, some of the things that that the folks that worked in our business had to deal with, like rebuilding substations and overhead lines across Africa. you show up to a place and it says there's a bridge over river and you're transporting like a transformer and like there is no bridge. Like, what do you do then? Or let's say you have an outbreak somewhere where you're working. And how do you comfort your employees? I think there's a lot of growing up. You do quickly NAFTA. I do think that the folks who are closer to the ground like doing the stuff we love as operators, it's harder for them to raise money for multiple reasons. One, I do think capital in Africa, I mean, predominantly doesn't go to the folks that are from there. Right? it's part of it's knowing how to fundraise. Part of it's like, people invest money in folks that are comfortable with folks from their network. I think there's tons of talented people that worked with me that if you put capital behind them, they'd be successful with one business, not as private equity guys. Right. But like, you give them one business they know and they can destroy it much more than anybody, whether they're in Africa or elsewhere. I'd bet on them. issue is it's hard for that same person to one they don't know how to raise capital. Two the skill set it takes to raise capital for the content is not the same skill set it takes to actually run a business on the continent. Three you know, engineering in the US will make, like, six figures and probably, maybe support one small part of their family, whereas on the continent they'll make much less and have to support a lot more people in general. Right. I'm sort of generalizing here. so I think the people that are well suited to lead these types of businesses, we talk about in the search fund world, one, they don't have the exposure. Two people aren't aren't looking out for them. I do think if there was a way to change the profile for what you're looking at, search like, I don't think you need a shiny new MBA on the continent. I think you need somebody. I'd rather have some of the guys who used to work for me who know how to get stuff done right. Like not somebody who wants to go to board meetings or point out best practices, but somebody who knows how to sell something, or somebody who knows how to build something. And that's my that would be my personal preference. So yeah, I think it's possible. Like can you find human capital who's very passionate about what they do, to operate a business and grow it successfully? Absolutely. I just think the profile needs a change to do it. Well, I would also love it if we were less concerned about, interesting things to talk about at, like, socials and oh, back this person and some story versus like, yeah, just give me the very boring story. This guy was a chemical engineer, worked at Chevron, decided he could do better than most of his suppliers. So he decided to set up a business that supplied Chevron and boom, he did well, right? I'd much rather back that than some crazy story of somebody like, who had a passion for, like, mangoes. And I mean, that's great and everything, but like, you're also trying to make money at the same time. Right.

00:39:38 Nick LALL: So yeah. And I think that sometimes it gets too much into the, there are so many options for people to invest in So then they they'll choose the one that sounds most exciting or has an interesting interview. Whereas if you want to look at actually operating success, it might be, the guy who actually just knows how to do a particular type of business really well and go find that business. And so, not just in Africa, I think anywhere in the world that it could be a lesson. which maybe brings me to one other question. again, you were mid-career surgery. You were, a little bit different from a typical ETA, searcher and not just being mid-career. Also, your approach of, wanting to have the seller stay on. And so I was curious if you have thoughts in general on ways that ETA could evolve or be tailored to different types of researchers, given that it is expanding so fast. But maybe the model that was there isn't necessarily the one that could work for everyone, whether it's in an emerging market or developed market. Just curious, any general thoughts you might have on, way search could be done differently?

00:40:46 DC Moore: So speaking from like a mid career. So there's there's one guy who like most people have heard of Sandy page who like knocked it out of the park. Like super smart, really humble guy. did a great job. I mean, he's the best person to ask about mid-career because he's seen the full cycle. For me, yeah, I think everybody is pretty welcoming. I do think there's a tendency to have a checklist, and part of it is age, right? There's sort of three stereotypes. I heard about age when I was coming in like one was that you're not going to be truly geographically Agnostic, right? the other one was that, you don't take advice because you're older and you think, you know, stuff. And then the third one is like, oh, you're not going to have the energy to put into this search, right? on the first one, maybe not. I don't know if anyone is truly geographically agnostic, right. I could pick out some places on a US map that nobody would go to unless they were from there. you want to be able to cast a wide enough net to find a business successfully. And I think there's tons of great businesses in the US and tons of different locations. You just want to make sure there's a fit for you, like, culturally. if you're like, I only want to do a big city, fine, right? There's a lot of competition there. if you're a little bit looser, right, then I it shouldn't be a problem. on the not taking advice thing. That that one's a little weird for me, because that could be anybody, right? I worked at McKinsey. There were twenty two year olds who didn't take advice. Right? Well, they're seventy year olds who still won't take advice. And they've been doing the same thing for fifty years. I think, that's where your interview process comes in, right? for me, I took everybody's advice. But there's there's a difference between taking advice and just, sort of full bore accepting. Somebody tells you two plus two equals banana. You're like, yeah, that sounds great. Equals banana. That's like that's not taking advice. You're just stupid at that point. Right. Like so I think there is something about that assessment being like stereotyped. Right. that's what you pitch for and that's what you get to know somebody for energy thing could be can that be. But I don't think anybody would say I lack energy. I know a lot of folks who are my colleagues who do get a ton done in a day, Like full of energy, Maybe they are not pursuing search, but I don't see why not. so again, I think that comes down to your interview process. I do think it's much easier to go to business schools because you get more bang for your buck when you do that, and it's much harder to find like a mid-career searcher unless they come directly to you. I don't know how you do that unless you have, themes around type of people you want to back and find places where they gather in large, in large groups. But I do believe, at least based on my interaction with other folks who are like my peers, there's a huge interest. But a lot of those folks, sort of worry about sort of those aged stereotypes, right? So like then maybe the option is that other mid-career people back, other mid-career people. Right. there's a lot of capital in that versus when folks are first leaving business school, so I don't know what the solution is. if I did, I probably wouldn't say it because I'd rather put money in it than tell everybody. But I do think there's an opportunity there to back folks. It's certainly helped me sort of having had a CV when I dealt with business owners.

00:44:16 Nick LALL: Sure. Yeah. I think that's a great point for if someone is mid-career professional that has a background like you did. I mean, you obviously had the network that really helped you. And so that is a benefit of being someone who has been around as an industry long enough and, probably has the connections that believe in them more strongly than someone who's fresh out of their MBA would. So it may just take a bit more of that personal, hustle to get it together, rather than just talking to the investors who come visit the business schools. and I think, as you're saying, it's it's a huge opportunity both investing in the emerging market searchers who may be overlooked right now, as well as the mid-career searchers. I think there's a lot of capital out there, a lot of people getting into this space, and if there were people who wanted to find a new solution that isn't just following what has worked so far, there's probably as good or even greater opportunity. If you look at some of these things that we've been talking about. really useful and interesting. we're already over time, but if there's anything else you want to talk about. Just curious if you had any other thoughts that you wanted to cover that we didn't.

00:45:20 DC Moore: One thought on on the space overall. one. I love this space. Right. I've tried to fundraise. I was private equity circles. I've never been in a space where people are so collegial, even they're like, what you're doing does not fit me. But here's some advice, I've never been a part except for maybe B-School where, you're encouraged to be collegial, right? But, where it comes to, like, business and people being, so open, right? Like search space. I hope that that doesn't stop even as it grows. I hope, the eighty percent of folks who are like that continue to be like that, and eighty percent of the people who come in continue to do that. Um, more points we put on the board, obviously the better. I think that part's great. I do think kind of what you hinted at, space will probably change a bit. And, the more experienced folks know this better than me. I do think there's opportunity in different markets. I do think there's opportunity for different profiles. I do think there's opportunity for different investment themes. and not everybody has the right. Some people have done so well with sort of sticking to what they know, and they should. But I think the more folks do that, more that allows people who aren't going to do that to find opportunities. And then the I don't want to say threat, but the dynamic that does change is that you have a lot of private equity backed, quote unquote, strategics. And sometimes you'll have a strategic that's super sophisticated, and they just found capital, or you'll have a strategic that's like two guys who kind of know how to do stuff on the front line. And they found capital, you see that a lot more in lower middle market. my point to searchers would be, be ready to position yourself against those as a threat much more than anything else, in my opinion.

00:47:10 Nick LALL: Yeah. Maybe just one really quick question is, given that is the case, what would you recommend to searchers or investors who are investing in searches? I guess, to be able to to deal with the fact that PE is going lower and lower into the lower middle market, and how can searches stand out to, to buyers and, actually close on deals, given that there's a lot more competition?

00:47:34 DC Moore: Yeah. So for me I was really focused on each and every seller I spoke to like really focused on like, all right, what do they really need. I mean I got really personal. I think also searching is probably the best way to like I feel like small business entrepreneurs in the US are not easily understood. I learned about a whole segment of the US while I was searching that I had never known, like in my career. but I only learned about that because, like, I really tried to get personal. I spent as much time as I could with people, and we talk about the business. I had some investors like, it's taking you too long or whatever, but I felt like, I'm not going to this is a marriage at this point, especially since I was looking for somebody to stay, so I wasn't going to rush it. so I would tell people to be people focused, right? You could say, hey, the more shots I get in, a lot of people take that, Like, I'll just be super transactional. But you might miss out on a really great business, It's pretty easy, like, for somebody to get married, right? If you really want to dip your your thresholds and like. Oh, yeah, that doesn't pass all these things. But I know I could get married, right? Boom. You're married. But what are you going to do after that? Right. So I would say, spend more time focused on the entrepreneur and kind of what they're telling you and what they're communicating, and then don't hesitate. I wouldn't bash private equity, but I would, inform them, like, I put together a document, here's private equity, here's search funds, here's, alternative means you could do, um, you could go raise capital yourself. Here's what I would think about if you're doing that, like really trying to become their advisor in life, because what you don't want is you close the deal and they regret that. They close the deal with you, and now you got to deal with that on the back end after you've raised capital or put in your own capital to do it. Like, I just wouldn't want that to happen to, to anybody. So my advice be people focused, be informative, be consultative. Uh, to the folks that you're talking to.

00:49:29 Nick LALL: Sure. Yeah. That is really good advice. It's not something we necessarily think of, but you know, you really are spending your a good part of your life with these people. So it should be approached the same way that you do approach. It's not just an analytical exercise in terms of okay, I can make money. I mean, we only have so many years to live, and so you don't want to trade that being in a position that's not good for you or them if it's not the right fit. So yeah, really good conversation. Wish you the best of luck and congrats on the success so far. Thanks so much for joining DC.

00:50:01 DC Moore: Thanks for your time. Good luck.