Self-Funded ETA in Europe | Alexander Kelm, Buyout Diary

In this episode we are joined by Alexander Kelm, founder of ETA Europe and writer of Buyout Diary, to explore why entrepreneurship through acquisition in Europe requires a very different playbook from the one most searchers know in the United States.

Alexander shares his journey from finance and startups into ETA, why he chose independence over the traditional search fund model, and how his MBA research on governance, founder knowledge transfer, and post-acquisition operations shaped his thinking around buying and owning small businesses.

They discuss:

•  Why the U.S. ETA model doesn’t cleanly translate to Europe 
•  The importance of language, culture, and local trust in European acquisitions 
•  How seller financing and government-backed loans differ from SBA financing 
•  Why relationship-building matters more in European dealmaking 
•  The growing ETA ecosystem across Amsterdam, Brussels, Spain, and beyond 
•  How family offices in Europe are slowly waking up to ETA 
•  Cross-border investing opportunities between the U.S. and Europe 
•  Why Alexander chose a self-funded path instead of a traditional search fund 

The conversation also dives into a broader theme that often gets overlooked in ETA: how to design an acquisition path that fits the kind of life you actually want to live, not just the one that looks best on paper.

Whether you’re interested in international ETA, self-funded acquisition entrepreneurship, or the future of small business succession outside the U.S., this episode offers a rare on-the-ground look at one of the fastest-growing ETA ecosystems in the world.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So the big question is this. How are entrepreneurs to arskilling tech startups or building lifestyle businesses from scratch doing it? How do acquisition entrepreneurs find businesses by them and then create generational wealth while taking on less risk? Welcome to Search Fund is the Entrepreneurship to Acquisition Podcast. I'm your host Nick Lal and today I am joined by Alexander Calm. Alexander is the founder of ETA Europe and the writer behind Buy Out Diary, where he documents his journey acquiring a small business in Europe. He started his career in finance working in institutions like Deutsche Bank and PwC before deciding that he didn't want to just analyze businesses, he wanted to own them. Since then, he's built and exited a digital business and is now actively seeking foreign acquisition in the Netherlands. At the same time, he's building one of the fastest-growing communities around entrepreneurship to acquisition in Europe, bringing together searchers, operators, and investors across cities like Amsterdam, Brussels, and beyond, with large in-person meetups and a growing network across the continent. He also recently completed his MBA where his research focused on what happens after an acquisition closes, specifically how knowledge transfers from founder to buyer, and how governance and CEO delegation impact long-term performance. What makes Alexander particularly interesting is that he's not just applying the ETA playbook most of us are familiar with. He's questioning how much of that US-centric model actually works in Europe. He also often focuses on something I think doesn't get talked about really enough, which is how to design an ETA path that actually fits the life that you want to live, not just the one that looks best on paper. So maybe that would be a good place to start. You've been pretty explicit in that you chose independence over the traditional search fund route. So why don't you walk me through why that is and how you made that decision?

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Well, long story short, oh, you already mentioned that I was uh the four in the finance sector and I had also some startup renters. And yeah, for two years ago I came across about ETA. Um because of my NDA study, I didn't want to go back to the corporate world. And yeah, I was then thinking what to do, and then LTA came like a big big sign on on my face, and I decided to do research at first and write my thesis about post-acquisition and small businesses. Actually I wanted to focus on cross-border in uh Germany and Netherlands, but I had not enough academic paper. So I switched and decided to rest market. It was quite cool uh research because I learned a lot from uh Americans and I could actually not copy the American rail to you. It's very challenges here because we have 27 different states in the European Union, or actually 26, or was Great Britain also there. Um actually also 26 different languages and cultures.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Yeah. It's definitely going from one country to the next is is a bit different from going from a US state to the next. And I realize it's search is expanding all over the place, but most of the data is still from the US. Most of the exits of the exits have been in the U.S., most of the studies end would have been in U.S. business schools. So it is really I think that's something that people maybe miss in terms of bringing it to other places. It's not just that you are figuring things out on your own and doing it for the first time there. It's also that a lot of what's taught about search funds or a lot of what is taught about ETA is really just US-based.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

In Europe in Europe, there are many business schools, but like INCAT or uh non-business schools, they're already teaching a little bit ETA or a little bit more than that. They have an old track. But some sub-local universities they never never heard about it. So they're focusing more on uh family business secessions or internal successions that are stuck taking over the small business, but not the ETA or social.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Yeah, um, it definitely seems like a lot of new ground to be built on there and which which makes it exciting as well. I mean, I know from our last conversation you were saying that there's just interest that's exploding in Europe. Like you've started hosting these meetups and you're having people coming from all over the continent just to meet up in in Amsterdam and Brussels and talk about it. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about what you've learned from the ecosystem you're sort of uh creating, playing a large part in that European ecosystem that's growing. What are what's drawing people to it? What are they thinking? What are they doing that um might be different from in the US?

SPEAKER_02 4:56

So uh even before we we had some, I would say, local meetups in every country, and I'm trying now to do more pan-European meetups. Not just Netherlands, Germany or France or whatever, so like collect all people to on one place and learn from each other. Uh that is uh for me very important because even I learn a lot from different people from different countries. And you create a bigger network. Even with searchers, with operators, from operators, you can learn a lot when you already acquired a business, but even also you get a bigger access to investors.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Yeah, and and how are the investors in Europe responding to search? I mean, I guess uh family offices probably have some idea of investing in smaller businesses there, but how do they respond to the search fund concept? Are they open to it? Um, are they receptive? What's some of the feedback that investors are giving you in Europe right now?

SPEAKER_02 6:00

So we have the investors they already know what is search fund, like Newton Campos, for example, Nova Advice, Mood Base Capital, so they're they're based here in Europe. Um they're everywhere or no or Novi Dam from Amsterdam. They're also very active in the in the US. So we have them. But also we have small family office, and that depends on where they're coming from. They're mostly investing in real estate, stocks, or own businesses. But they never heard about the search fund or the coming note. No, what is it, and learning. But it's growing like we are still pioneers here. So in old stage, even the search are pioneers. We have some operator already acquired business with a model of search funds, and we have investors who are also um coming into the ecosystem and learning.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

I think that's what needs to happen everywhere because uh most of the US investors will not really want to lead or even invest in a lot of the search acquisitions outside the US, and you need to build up the local ecosystem more. And as you mentioned, there are you know some investors already in Europe, which is uh better than a lot of non-US locations, I guess I would say.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

But you need European investors, even local investors for each country. Maybe you arise minor from investors who are coming from the US, Equal East, or other states in Europe, but you want to invest maybe in Germany, you need a local one at first, or the other winner joined.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Yeah, maybe you could talk a little bit more about what's different between each individual European country, like how how much of a difference would it make for say you're in the Netherlands and you want to buy a business in France or Germany? Would it be possible or is it is is it kind of different from the US where you do you're from New York and you don't mind buying a business in Florida or California? It's not a big deal necessarily to move to another part of the US, but I would guess that in Europe it might be a bit more challenging.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

Yeah, of course, when you're buying from New York and Florida, at first you have the you speak the same language, you have the same culture, and you have you're living in the same country. But when you want to buy uh a business in the Netherlands and you are German like me, you have to speak the language at first and to know the culture. The same as like when someone wants uh a French guy wants to buy a business in Germany, it's also more important to learn the language and the culture, and otherwise. So there's a challenge. You have to speak more than one language, more than like your native language. You know, for me it's German. I have to speak Dutch in the Netherlands, of course. And English is also helpful. But when I would buy in France, in Paris, oh, I don't speak French would be very difficult even to operate a business then when you don't speak the local language.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Sure. Um, I mean, yeah, the language hurdles definitely real. Beyond that, are there are there cultural differences? Like would you have to understand French business culture? Or is is it I mean, I know coming from the US to Asia or something, there's a ton to learn about local business culture and getting them to trust you. If you're going from one part of Europe to another, is is that an issue or is it more just a language barrier that's the biggest problem?

SPEAKER_02 9:14

No, it's also about regulations. So when you want to buy a business in a specific industry, there can come some shellots up, especially in Germany. There um like the blue-color businesses are protected. You need the certificate to run it.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

I would guess that that's probably you you need a lot more inform a lot more knowledge in Europe of um the local regulations, and I'm sure there are a lot more regulations in a lot of these European countries.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

I am Germany, for example, I need to hire someone who has a certificate, and he will be operator, but I take the risk, and when he will uh leave me, the government can close the company. You can work with the chamber, the chambers, the local chambers, because they're handing out the certificate, and then we help you that the business will run also without this guy. They will find maybe another one helping you to support for the next month. So it's not like okay, overnight them over. No, that's not. So the government will help you.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Yeah, well that well that's good to hear that it it's not as risky as it sounds, but the wild rest here. Yeah. There there is certainly a bit more regulatory risk there, I suppose, though, that people should be wary of if they're going to look to buy in that part of the world.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

You have to know it. You have to learn. That is also learning, especially I'm coming from the area close to the Dutch border. I go I go up there, and you have to know what is on this side of the border, what is on the other side of the border. And then you have to find your way, what is easier for you in the beginning. And you cannot say Netherlands is easier than Germany, or for you cannot. You have to check which industry could be more yours and where you have the best fit.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Yeah, I'm I'm I'm sure it's there's a need to go much more granular, and there are probably trade-offs with each place. I think that that is cool that you sort of have that background that gives you insights into both places. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about your search strategy. Are you looking just in the Netherlands and Germany, or are you looking other places as well? You're not doing a traditional search fund, so I'm also a little bit curious about exactly what you know uh structure you're going to you're going to take in the business you acquire. Are you going to be the one running it, or are you going to put someone in to run it? I'd love to hear just a little bit more about your overall strategy and how you're approaching the surge.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

So I would start then more with the geography. So it's like Northwest Germany. I'm I'm from there, then the whole Netherlands and the northern part of Belgium because they're speaking uh Dutch, and the southern part of Belgium speaks French, and I don't speak French. So that is already my area. It's like from Amsterdam, I would say by cars four and four hours of driving. Then you have all these uh areas. And how I'm which industries I'm looking for. I already said before blue cowards so not more the HVAC, electrician guys, or smaller businesses with a revenue around code medium. So in the search one will be there, not the best match for the small businesses. But also I want to be yeah, always my own boss, I have to say. And what I'm looking uh how I'm searching, I'm searching not so with tools as with database. In um Europe we have one big database actually now. It's also located in Amsterdam, it's called uh USField.com. And I'm working with brokers, local brokers, but also with my previous network where I was working, sorry, the my previous work placements. And I have connection to local mayors and local chambers, business chambers, associations where SMEs are members.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

That's great. I think that it's interesting that there are different databases all over the world, but I think also outside the US sourcing is not quite as straightforward. There's not as much intermediation, so you ought to make these local connections with chambers of commerce or other ways to sort of hack the system that way. So you mentioned that you you want to be your own boss, so basically I'm I'm guessing you're not looking to bring on investors that would take a majority share. So I'm curious, is there something like an SBA in Europe, or how are you thinking of structuring the transaction financially?

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Uh financially, so it also depends on country, but also European Union has some fucking subsidies or fundraising programs, even for transactions in small businesses. But each country has also their own, like France has their own, Germany has Netherlands. But I'm focusing now more a bit on the German Dutch border, so the German side, because it's for me easier. Because I have uh also um a credit score because I was living there a long time. It's easier to be a loan or the subsidy than in the Netherlands, because yeah, I'm living since a couple of months. But they have some options to finance a transaction, even in the small to business area, because the government's supporting this. It's similar to uh SBA, like in US, uh, but you cannot cover like 80% or so, that's maybe half, and then you need a bit a bit more equity, or you need some investors or other loans, or seller financing is also coming up for you.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Yeah, I think the the SBA is probably pretty unique to the US in terms of how much uh coverage they'll get which is which is changing in the US as well. But but it is, I I think what is interesting is that yeah, perhaps in a place like Europe it might be easier to get more of sell more seller financing compared with the US, where that's becoming less common than it might have once been.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

I was I was speaking for a couple of weeks ago with a Dutch broker, and he said it's uh seller financing is uh growing now on the Dutch market. Has also this uh tax benefit for the seller, not to sell in one or get the money in one. So that is also a reason. Yeah. But you have to be creative as as seller, even as seller, but also as buyer. So that is it's a channel from MA, so almost always like this. Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

But I think I've cannot buy you zero download. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Yeah, despite what some of the the Instagram posts out there are telling people, I'm not sure that's really possible many places anymore. But uh probably still closer to that in the US, maybe than than other places. But hopefully there are enough people listening that don't get fooled by something that is making the brands on on LinkedIn and Instagram. But maybe you'll be curious to dive a little bit deeper into your MBA research. I think it's it's interesting that you're obviously someone who's very practical, you're learning all of the different rules that exist in these different countries in Europe, but I think you're also philosophical in a way. You've also done some deeper research into the more softer aspects of search and how it impacts the businesses. So I'd love to learn maybe just a little bit how you decided to do that MBA research and what you learned from it.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

How I decide, uh yeah, uh, I don't I didn't want to start again with uh with a startup, so I had this journey already, and I want to buy a business, a real business, not just the idea. And but with the thesis or with the MBA research, I didn't want to cover in my search or research the pre-acquisition part. Because everyone is talking about, everyone is writing about it, how to search, how to finance, how to deal with the with the seller, and how to close the deal. But even also the post-acquisition part is already covered, but more in the private equity part or the credit equity world, not the small business law in the neighborhood. And that I was quite interesting about this because I I want to be later the owner, so I have to know how to manage an operator. I don't want to be the 100% operator, because when I want to be in the craftsmanship business, I cannot work with electrician or or build a roof or something. That should be uh the the operator do with their team. So then I was most thinking, okay, how can I build a structure, a government structure? And actually on top I want to be want to have a holdcore. And then the small business below. Also, I was thinking, okay, I'm the owner, but I so the principal in the principal agent conflict is still there. How I can handle this. So I have also to trust my operator, I want to give them a team. Oh, he has also to build a team, and we want to work as teams together. Because I want to build the business around, optimize it, etc. Maybe acquire some other uh business together, merge them. But also how I can control them for this uh portfolio management, I would scalp. And what I like most of this topics was the last one, the knowledge transfer from the founder to the potential new owner. That was actually happened a lot of um things, I would say. I don't want to tell you the bad word now.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Yeah, no, that's really interesting. You've mentioned Newton Campos, and I I first spoke with him a couple years ago, and one of the the points he made to me that really resonated with me and stood with me is that in ETA and search funds, it's not that you're just buying an asset, you're buying knowledge, you're buying relationships, that's really where a lot of the value is. And so that knowledge transfer is essential, and that's really often what makes or breaks an acquisition.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

So I think it's really interesting that you can add something to this knowledge transfer on top. Uh, because I was talking with Americans, and maybe it's also available, uh has it some value for your audience now. I interviewed 11, some or more investors, but I had also five operators for unjust acquired uh businesses. One one business was not so good prepared, so this guy had to build actually from the beginning the business, had to build new relationships to supplier, client, stream, all set all stakeholders. But another one, and this this idea I like, and it's actually quite common, he hired the previous owner as staff member or as advisor for three, six months after the acquisition. And I think it's very helpful because the guy knows the business, know the market, and can support you in the first 90 days, hundred and eighty days of your acquisition, even when you're first-time buyers, I think this is very helpful. Because you have to learn so much in the Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

I think it's really I guess the conventional wisdom is you you don't want the seller to be too tied to the business, you want to get them out of there as quickly as possible because they can also have um negative effects, but at the same time, you really need a someone to learn from. I think just spending 60, 90 days and getting up to speed can save you so much trouble in the years following. So I think that is really good advice. I think going a little bit deeper into that relationship with the seller, relationship with the former founder or owner. You've you've told me that relationship and trust are much more important in Europe. So I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about why that is and how you do build a relationship with those sort of people, whether it's sellers or investors or anyone who helps you sourcing a deal. It it seems like relationships are much more important in Europe. So how do you go about forming these relationships? Why does it take longer there? Uh would love just to get your thoughts. In general, on relationships in Europe in the ETA space.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

Yeah, uh, it's actually simple to say because you have to meet them in real so you cannot just make online conversations where you have to go out with them for coffee, for walk, etc. It doesn't matter. The seller, service provider, or investor or other searchers, we have to meet them in person. And not just one time, quite often. And this ETA uh community, what we have now here in uh in the better looks, is helpful because we can meet each other in these meetups and talk and create a relationship. And the same you have with uh with the on the seller side. In the beginning you're not talking about uh how much money or do we what the numbers in the first conversation. You just want to know the story, the journey of the seller. And let him or her talk how long she or he wants. And you learn a lot of the story, then in your and even you have to do before a little bit research what this person likes. Maybe he likes uh football or basketball or whatever, then you can create their also uh relationship with with their activities or hobbies.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

It's not about business every time, especially in such a beginning.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Yeah, for for sure. I think again, as you mentioned, it is transferring knowledge, tar transferring relationships, and so if you know that that is what you're doing, I mean you gotta approach it that way from the very beginning. You don't approach it just like a financial transaction, and these are all numbers, you gotta really understand the people behind it and have them understand you. And I think that is true everywhere. I think perhaps as the US has gotten so competitive and intermediated, it it is a bit more just straightforward. But I I think everywhere the relationship matters, and that is the way that you you should approach it. I I would be curious though, how much go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Uh the call it was in the beginning of the year, and it was in Germany, and we met already uh quite often for coffee, whatever, etc. And then he invited me to his business park, I would say. It was a logistic company, and he did a really a walk of the whole park. He showed me everything. He um introduced me to staff, man, management, to the truck drivers, all that this is also nice to uh to have here because they're talking then about the story and you see it and feel it. That's very interesting. It's the deal didn't happen, but this this experience was very nice.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Definitely. And I guess maybe that is one benefit of Europe is that things are closer to each other, so you can go visit them much more easily. I think you know, here in the US and I I see a deal in Kansas or Utah, I don't go all the way out there unless once I am under LOI and then I'm really serious about the business, then I would actually go do the side visit. But things are much further apart here. So it when you're in a place where it's a little bit easier to go travel, it might be a benefit of being there.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

You have to go out. You cannot sit behind the computers all day. You have to go out. You have to sit in the car and drive to the cellar or to your partner's house.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Yeah, 100% agree. And I think the as we become more and more digital, AI is something we're all getting really addicted to right now, and there's just so much online. The real differentiators will be meeting people in person. I think I've personally have noticed that that investors I've met in real life, they're the ones that are much more willing to work with me. Uh people, you know, whether when I do connect with a seller in person or a broker in person, again, it's just uh so much more meaningful. And uh on both sides, we're much more excited to work with each other. So I I do really appreciate that. You mentioned a couple times that ETA is growing really quickly in Europe and it's different than it was a few years ago. I was wondering if you could maybe go a little bit deeper into that in terms of what is the biggest difference between now and say three years ago.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

So I would say Spain is still five years ahead in Europe because they were one of the first, or they were the first in Europe. But now, the last one and a half, two years, many universities in Europe, like INCIAT, I'm sure you were there, right? And Rotterdam Business School, LDS or Long Business School, etc. Barcelona, they're all doing your own ETA conference now. That is good because from the academic way, it's it's very good, but also they're collecting or people from Europe going there and want to learn. Even then, they even didn't hear about before about ETA, but they want to learn. And they want to meet people. The conversations are the key. Not just the lectures or lessons or sessions. They want to meet people who had the same interests because you feel sometimes you're a bit alone. Still alone.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

Yeah, the the journey of the search is definitely pretty lonely. So it helps to talk to people who know what you're doing and are doing the same thing in their life. Absolutely. You you mentioned that you know Spain is about five years ahead. I was wondering if you have thoughts on how search may develop differently in say Germany or Netherlands compared to Spain. Because I I would guess that the dynamics in Southern Europe versus Northern Europe are probably quite different. So not only is it different from the US, but there's obviously very different culture in in Spain versus Germany, for example. So um any thoughts you have there would be interesting too.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Yeah, I think Spain they had because this universities or three are supporting this, and the government understood this that we have to support this because our the baby boomers, like all Western worlds, they are retiring, and uh we have to save over the economy. But some other countries in Europe, and that is a surprise, in northern one, like Netherlands or so, they're not so far. For example, I had a conversation also for a couple of weeks ago with the Dutch chapel of commerce, and they're just focusing on innovative businesses, startup, start-up, start up, and they had the last conversation, the last advice talk in 2014 about uh small business transactions and secession. I was shocked.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Yeah, I mean, I guess when government is lagging, that does give opportunities to the people who are willing to be a bit more trailblazing, but yeah, it is interesting to hear that.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

But I I think everywhere in the way it will also come in the Netherlands because they have to think about this where what is the backbone of the economy and whether the small businesses and media-sized businesses, and not the startup. I don't mean the startups are bored, we need this innovative um mindset, etc. I was also in the space, I'm still working this board. I like the guys, I would hire some of them who to improve the traditional businesses. But uh you have to focus not on one, you have to focus on two.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Absolutely. Yeah, I mean these these small businesses are the backbone of these countries' economies, and I think as we do see the world fragmenting a bit, uh these kind of businesses will also be the ones that are even more valuable. And so if governments are smart, they should be finding ways to support them to get the uh younger generation involved in them as well, because I think there hasn't been a push for that in a lot, especially in the US there hasn't, but I think in a lot of the world there probably hasn't been as much of a push to get people into these kind of businesses rather than chasing the the shiny objects of the tech world. Anything else you wanted to talk about that we didn't cover?

SPEAKER_02 30:15

I would like to see more Americans here in Europe because we can learn a lot from them, but there will be also a little bit surprised that it's another way here. But I think this exchange between US and Europe on this level would be very nice. Even also for investors, it could be very interesting to invest in Europe in countries like Germany, Netherlands, France, because these big industries are also interesting for Americans. And I think it it would work also this exchange, this uh pan-Atlantic exchange between Americans and and and Europeans.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Yeah, definitely. I think there is a lot of opportunity there, not just to diversify your portfolio, but I think that there's always a benefit of cross-border um collaboration in terms of there maybe depending on the business, there could be value in having a portfolio that's a mix of businesses in the US and and ones in Europe that might be synergistic in certain ways.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

Yeah, but if an American investor wants to invest in a European business, he needs local partners. He cannot without. And there come the culture and the language barriers again. Of course, as Americans, it's easier to invest in UK businesses. This is the same language, but when you start, then you go to the continent or not to the British Alpha, then the challenge starts.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

Yeah, certainly I think that for a lot of reasons for that reason a lot of Americans are attracted to the UK or Australia or other Anglo countries because legally and linguistically it's all a bit more familiar. But I think if you find the right local partner in Europe, it's also a great place to do business and invest in businesses. And there are a lot of benefits there that maybe even beyond what is there in um some of those other economies. So certainly could be an opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

Yeah. And even the uh European investors are already investing search funds or ETAs in in Europe, they're also investing in US, so could be also another exchange.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Yeah, that is true. Yeah, you do see a bit more of that than the other direction.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

Yeah, outside the box, not just US market. It also exists other markets. We are we are the global world, so you have just you have to start in your home country, of course, but then you have also to look around.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

Yeah, and and the US is getting way more competitive, so I think that a lot of the search returns that people might have found in the US 10 plus years ago, uh, maybe not quite as good anywhere in the world at this point, but there may be more opportunity in Europe. You may not be paying such high multiples necessarily. So yeah, I think there's certainly opportunity out there if if you're willing to find the right person to work with.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

Here's a huge opportunity for American investors. A good example is the German market until 2030, one million business has to find a successor or they have to close. They're small businesses, but one million businesses in the next four years. Because they cannot find this, have to think about just Germany.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Yeah, it's it's an enormous opportunity. And again, I mean Germany's a great, great market to be in, so it probably needs to be more attention given to it. It's it's surprising that it's taken this long to get there. Great. Uh well, Alexander, really appreciate the conversation. Super interesting stuff. We don't get a lot of chance to have someone who's so on the ground in another place like Europe or probably I think you're the first guest from Germany or the Netherlands. So it's been really interesting to get that insight from you. Um I wish you the best of luck and hope to keep in touch and see how things go.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

Yeah, likewise. And you're welcome to one of our your audience. Come over to Europe. It's interesting here. It's uh booming, it's it's it's coming, it's a growing market now, ETA here. So maybe in five years already, like in the US, everyone is doing deals in ETA, so you have to come now when you want to do here in Europe.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Yeah, the time certainly now. Well, I will definitely keep in touch and let you know when I'm out there.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Yeah.