Inner Work With MaryAnn Walker: Stop People Pleasing and Start Honoring You!

189: Scapegoat vs Golden Child: How Family Role Shape Identity and People Pleasing With Elle Boone

• MaryAnn Walker • Episode 189

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Understanding the Family Scapegoat: Healing, Identity, and People Pleasing

Today I am joined by Elle Boone, host of The Family Scapegoat Chronicles. Elle dives deep into a role that many empaths and highly sensitive people unknowingly carry—that of the family scapegoat—and how it shapes identity, people-pleasing tendencies, and emotional well-being.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

  • What it means to be the family scapegoat and how this role is assigned in dysfunctional and narcissistic family systems.
  • The three key dynamics of scapegoating: blame, shame, and rejection, and how these affect long-term emotional health.
  • The concept of “family mobbing” and how siblings and other family members may unconsciously or consciously participate in scapegoating.
  • Differences between the scapegoat, golden child, and lost child roles—and how these roles can rotate over time.
  • How scapegoating contributes to people-pleasing, overgiving, and identity confusion.
  • Signs that you might have been scapegoated, including minimized successes, silent treatment, backhanded criticism, and heightened responsibility for family dysfunction.
  • Practical strategies for healing: observing patterns, pacing your recovery, and reclaiming your personal identity.
  • Recommended resources, including Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed by Rebecca C. Mandeville, and the documentary The Wisdom of Trauma by Gabor Maté.

Challenge for the Week:
Take a compassionate pause to observe your patterns. Notice how often you apologize, overgive, or seek approval. Write down at least three recurring behaviors and reflect on where they might have originated. This is the first step toward reclaiming your identity and untangling the people-pleasing and scapegoating patterns in your life.

Work With Me:
If you’re ready to start identifying the roles that hold you back and learn to set healthier boundaries, you can book a free clarity call with me here: https://calendly.com/maryannwalkerlife/freeconsult

Don’t Forget to Subscribe
Make sure you’re subscribed so you don’t miss future episodes. Each week, we dive deeper into the practices that help recovering people pleasers create balance, self-worth, and authentic connection.

🎯 email me now at maryann@maryannwalker.life to work with me! 

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Links Mentioned in This Episode:

MaryAnn Walker:

Well, hello and welcome back. This is Inner Work with MaryAnn Walker, where I help recovering people, pleasers, identify the roles that are holding them back. And as part of that, I want to welcome Elle Boone to the show. So welcome Elle. So happy to have you.

Elle Boone:

Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. I'm very, very excited to have this conversation with you today, Marianne. Thank you for inviting me. Yeah.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah. And L is launching a brand new podcast that really works with a very specific role that holds a lot of people back. Do you wanna tell us a bit about that?

Elle Boone:

Yes, so the title of the show, which will launch somewhere between the end, uh, sorry, the middle and the end of October, is titled The Family Scapegoat Chronicles. And. The name Scape Family Scapegoat, um, would indicate that the host is probably from that tribe of family scapegoats. Um, so yes, I have a lot of experience on that topic and I wanted to create something that didn't exist when I figured out that I was the family scapegoat and all the dynamics that. Would allow people not just to learn more about it, but also to come on the show and express their feelings about it and share their story so that others can be heard and seen and validated and, and find community as well. So I'm excited about that. Yes, I, I hope that many come and, and, and get benefit and value out of it. For sure. Yeah.

MaryAnn Walker:

So for those that are unfamiliar with the term scapegoat, can you tell us a bit about what that looks like, especially in a family dynamic?

Elle Boone:

Yes, yes. So typically in a family dynamic, it's, I, I wanna preface it by saying a dysfunctional family dynamic because it is, it's very much, um, a dysfunction. And the scapegoat role is one that is assigned, um, to a child within a family system, and it can be out of a dysfunctional family system. A narcissistic family system or a combination of the two, if that makes sense. Um, so one person is singled out to carry the blame and the shame of the family, and not just the current generation, but previous generations as well. It's passed down a little bit like China

MaryAnn Walker:

Hmm.

Elle Boone:

family heirloom. Um, and so the. The dysfunction of the family is projected on the family scapegoat,

MaryAnn Walker:

Mm-hmm.

Elle Boone:

and that person is carrying the wounds of, of the, the family, um, so that the people who are doing the projection don't have to deal with the issues

MaryAnn Walker:

That just sounds like such a huge burden. I mean, to carry the blame and the shame of the family. Um, can you give us an example of what that might look like? I'm sure it's probably something that's harder to identify when you are the one being scapegoated.

Elle Boone:

Yeah, the one thing that comes to mind in terms of blame,'cause there are three, three components that are really important. There's blame, shame, and rejection. So the blame might look like everything is your fault. In the family dynamic, I used to say. When I, before I started to figure this out, I was living in New York when nine 11 happened, and I used to joke that it was my fault. My family blamed me for that because I was living there. So all jokes aside, the blame and the shame coupled with the rejection can really wear down the scapegoat, which is the point. If the scapegoat is contained. Minimized, reduced, then they're not so much of a threat as they are if they are free to be the truth teller that they are. And I will say too, that the person who's chosen to be the scapegoat is typically the empath, the highly sensitive person, the truth teller, the one who's not afraid to call out what's happening in the fam, the family dynamic. So it's, targeted. And sometimes it's deliberate and conscious and sometimes it's not conscious. The family can be in a, state of denial in terms of the dysfunction, and not be fully conscious of what they're doing and how they're behaving. So that adds another layer. But the rejection, I think is, at least for me, has been the hardest part. There is something called. Family mobbing. Have you heard that term before? No,

MaryAnn Walker:

family mopping?

Elle Boone:

So family mobbing, it's no picnic. Let me just say that. It's when the dysfunctional family unit gangs up against the chosen scapegoat. So for example, if something goes wrong in the family, the scapegoat person who is blamed for that issue or event, everybody comes together and it's the narcissist at the head of, those events that rallies the siblings, for example,, and pits the group against the scapegoat. So it creates this really isolating, lonely, dark sensation for the scapegoat that's very confusing. And it takes time to figure this out. And so again, I'm really glad you're doing this episode because there isn't enough content out there on this topic, in my opinion, being a scapegoat, it took a while for me to figure it out. I'm only five years into my healing, and i'm still at the beginning in many ways to recover from this dynamic because there's so much isolation that comes out of, the family mobbing, you don't have any allies. Your siblings become your enemies on purpose. And so where do you go? And when you go to someone in the family, you're typically being gaslighted with your concerns. That's not what they said. I didn't say that. That's not true. You're making things up. You are too dramatic. Why are you so sensitive? These are clues for anyone listening. If you've been told those things in your family dynamic, chances are you are probably the scapegoat in the family.

MaryAnn Walker:

So when you're being told those things that, oh no, you're misremembering, you're being too sensitive, are the other family members that are participating in it, is this something that they're consciously doing is trying to blame and shame, or how does that show up?

Elle Boone:

Yeah, that's a great question. I think it's yes and no. I think that when it starts, when this dysfunction starts early on, when the kids are really young, I think as a safety and coping mechanism, the siblings will side with the parent because it's safer. If you side with the scapegoat, you could be scapegoated too. And nobody wants to be scapegoated. So I think it's a little bit of both. And a lot of us are in this denial state where we just don't see things the way they really are. So we come up with coping mechanisms and catchphrases that minimize the situation and deflect so that we don't have to really dig in and do the work and confront the pain.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah. And that's fascinating'cause as you describe it that way, it has me thinking that yes, I can see how this could be, you know, with a narcissistic parent, but also it sounds like a significant amount of emotional immaturity. And as you talk about how it's usually the highly sensitive and the empathic people that are scapegoated, I almost wonder if it's because they're more aware of emotions and aware of everybody else's emotions and maybe those that are less emotionally mature. It's, it's always easier to blame somebody else than to take accountability, isn't it?

Elle Boone:

Yes. Yeah. Always. Yes, always. Um, and, and I wanna say too that the, the scapegoat role can rotate in the family. So. The golden child could become the scapegoat and vice versa. So I've been in, in both roles, uh, this

MaryAnn Walker:

confusing. Can you tell more about that? So, first, describe the golden Child and the scapegoat, and what are the differences in those roles. But then I really wanna hear how they can switch. That's

Elle Boone:

Yeah. How they're reassigned. Mm-hmm. Yes. So the golden child is the one who is more enmeshed with the narcissistic. I'm gonna use the narcissistic dynamic in this explanation because while you can be scapegoated in, in a dysfunctional family that doesn't have the narcissistic element.

MaryAnn Walker:

Mm-hmm.

Elle Boone:

It's more common in my experience to have both the narcissism and the dysfunction. So the, the narcissist also assigns the golden child, the one who's gonna be more compliant, who's more like them, who's not going to resist the programming as I call it. And it's a very unhealthy dynamic and it can turn into such enmeshment that I've heard it called, emotional incest, which is big, a big phrase. Um, yeah. So, but let's say the scapegoat does something wonderful and gets more attention for any length of time. They can be sort of reassigned as the golden child. In that moment and then someone else has to become the scapegoat. They have to have a scapegoat in the system so those two roles can switch. In my experience, it was temporary. So back to the scapegoat role, I went and because of my personality, I'm sensitive, but I'm also very vocal and a truth teller and I call it the way I see it, and that rocks the boat. So hence the family mobbing. Also, the silent treatment is a, another dynamic in this dysfunction, where if you do something. That they think is wrong or not in compliance with the family dysfunctional rules, then you can be given the silent treatment and stonewalled, which furthers the isolation and rejection emotions in the scapegoat and can later show up, as, in my case, as complex PTSD. It's unresolved unprocessed trauma. Emotions and they show up. We filter every experience through all of our past experiences. So, yeah, so the way I figured this out, it was just before the pandemic, and I talk about this in my first episode that we'll launch in October. I'm so excited. Someone I was working with suggested that I look at my patterns and behaviors. And I said, what, why, what's wrong with my patterns? And he said, well, I hear your stories and I feel like the patterns that you've developed that you're not really aware of are coping mechanisms and you're filtering life through them. So let's say you get an opportunity, in your career and in that opportunity and that experience, something triggers inside of you and you're operating with your behavior through that trigger and it ruins the opportunity because you're reading it wrong. So, yeah, so IW that was when I was like, okay, and a few other things took place and I thought, he's right. I need to look at my patterns. And that's one of the tips that I wanna give at the end when we, when we talk about tips and resources, because if you can, and people pleasing too, um, is, is a big pattern of being scapegoated,

MaryAnn Walker:

I'm also really curious, like I found it so interesting as you talked about how you could switch back and forth and how you personally, that was your experience between being scapegoated and being the golden child and. Number one, how disorienting, but also the sporadic reinforcement of hoping to be the golden child and thinking, well, if I can just do the right thing, I can totally see how that would lead into those people pleasing tendencies, because you want to not be scapegoated anymore. You want to be the golden child. You want to be the special one, but knowing that you're gonna get knocked off of that role at any moment, that must be extremely upsetting to the nervous system. And, and speaking to that, I'm wondering if you can share with us some of the signs and symptoms, of being scapegoated. You said some of the signs and symptoms are, it's always your fault. Like you joked about that nine 11 was your fault. So even things not related to you at all, you kind of just knew it was always gonna be your fault. Silent treatment, stonewalling. What are some of the other symptoms and, and signs of scapegoating?

Elle Boone:

In, in terms of trying to figure out if you've been scapegoated in your family.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah. I guess I'm really curious, like, how did you, how did you put it together? Like what, what brought it into your awareness? It sounds like it's something that it's often hard to see that you're experiencing it, so how did you figure it out?

Elle Boone:

So it was, there were th two other events that took place in terms of identifying my own behaviors and some of that included, anxiety and people pleasing.

MaryAnn Walker:

Hmm.

Elle Boone:

Um, and when my, friend suggested that I start looking at my patterns. I went to YouTube and I started looking up as many videos and books that I could find, on the subject of narcissism, family dysfunction, and all of those things. And that's when I started to identify with, oh, silent treatment. That's, oh, gaslighting. There's a whole list of, nomenclature is, is a term I use, like it's the vocabulary for this. So I started looking into all of those different elements in, that dysfunction, and first identified with the experiences that I had under that lens. And then just looking for, information. And when I finally got to the point where I, found what I was looking for, it was about two or three years in from that first event and I was on. During the pandemic when we all had a lot of time, I was on a Facebook, group page about narcissism, I'm sure, and I was reading comments. And in the comments someone suggested a book

MaryAnn Walker:

Mm-hmm.

Elle Boone:

that was written by Rebecca c Mandeville. This is one of my, tips at the end for references and resources. I wanna get the name of the book right, so I have to look it up. Blamed, shamed, and Reject. No, rejected, blamed and Shamed. I sometimes get those backwards. I'm so sorry.

MaryAnn Walker:

Oh, it's just fine. And I'll link that in the show notes for everybody too.

Elle Boone:

Rejected, shamed, and Blamed. Yes. So she wrote this book. She is a licensed family therapist and a life coach, and she wrote this book that describes my entire experience

MaryAnn Walker:

Wow.

Elle Boone:

on family scapegoating. She's coined the term family scapegoating abuse and has a peer review study out and another one in the making, which is important because that gives this. Dynamic, more exposure and more people, with opportunities to learn about what they might have been through. Because for me it was, I just walked around with a chip on my shoulder and this anxiety thinking, oh, this is just who I am. No, it's, it was my programming and my conditioning and my upbringing. So once I got the vocabulary down, I knew what to look for. Not just in information, but also my behaviors and my patterns, so I could start to break those cycles within my own family. Yeah, Did that answer your question?

MaryAnn Walker:

that does answer my question beautifully. And I'm also curious, I'm going back again to the switching back and forth between the scapegoat and the golden child. If, from your experience, was that often, like, I wonder if that was even weaponized, like comparison with why can't you be like them? Is that another symptom of being scapegoated, or what was your experience there?

Elle Boone:

It can be, yes. It wasn't my experience. Um, I will say though, that. Especially in the narcissistic dynamic, the narcissist is very interested in and protective of image, the family

MaryAnn Walker:

Hmm.

Elle Boone:

And I thought about this earlier today in, anticipation of meeting with you, and I feel like in, my upbringing there was a a lot of lack financially. And, and I, so maybe that's why I didn't experience it. And I feel like families that are more affluent might have more to be concerned about in terms of image. So, yeah, that's, that was my take earlier today. When I thought about it, there we didn't have a lot to be concerned about in terms of public facing personas. So, So, no. Um, and the, and when the roles switched, it wasn't necessarily scapegoat to golden child and back. Sometimes it's the scapegoat to the lost child. Which is another element, gets if the scapegoat leaves and goes, no contact. That's a term that's really popular right now. Um, someone else has to take that role on. So it can be reassigned in that way to another sibling. And it's not typically the golden child in my experience. It's the lost child or, someone else in the system that's, not already been the golden child. Because that rearing from my experience, started at a very young age. The golden child is conditioned and programmed, from a very, very young age, and I see it more with a mother and son

MaryAnn Walker:

Mm-hmm.

Elle Boone:

than a mother and daughter dynamic in terms of the golden child, so, mm-hmm. Yeah.

MaryAnn Walker:

can you kind of give us a little bit more information about, who is the lost child? Like how would you describe the lost child?

Elle Boone:

Uh, it's in my experience, it's, it's someone who's been, sort of ignored in the sense that they weren't given opportunities that other kids are dynamic in that sy that system. Maybe they didn't excel in school as much. So they just kind of get washed into the background. Um, and not, given what, what, definitely not what they needed for sure. So they just kind of become quiet and voiceless. My experience. Yeah.

MaryAnn Walker:

Okay, and so tell me if I'm understanding this correctly. So then both the golden child and the scapegoat are getting a lot of attention, though different kinds of attention. And then the lost child is, the one that's kind of ignored and neglected. And then those roles kind of can rotate and shift around depending on.

Elle Boone:

Mm-hmm.

MaryAnn Walker:

What is gonna put forth the best image in the moment it sounds like.

Elle Boone:

And protect the denial system that is such, has such a stronghold on especially the, the dysfunctional families. And what I mean by dysfunction is unresolved trauma of their own. It can be alcoholism, drug addiction. All of those things are under that dysfunctional umbrella. When I say dysfunctional. Yeah. So there's, there's a lot of. I think in every role, including the narcissist and maybe especially a lot of unprocessed trauma.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah, sounds like it.

Elle Boone:

There are a couple of other things that I have in my notes that in terms of people trying to identify whether they've been scapegoated, That I think are important. If I can just take a quick glance here. Okay. So here, here are a few things. That are really common, that a scapegoat, a family scapegoat can experience. They're, like I said earlier, they're blamed for everything. When anything goes wrong, it's their fault. Ironically, your successes are minimized. they're ignored or downplayed. They don't wanna put you on a pedestal. That role is taken in this movie. Right. And I'll say too that, you know, once you start to identify the theatrics, for lack of better term, in, in the behaviors from the dysfunctional family members to onto the scapegoat, you'll stop buying tickets to the show. Once you see the performative and the cosmetics of it. So being criticized is another, you know, sort of backhanded way of keeping, keeping you in your place, so to speak. And the same rules don't apply to every family member. So the golden child gets special treatment, the scapegoat gets the silent treatment. Yeah. you're kind of a dumping ground.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah. And'cause as you list off those things, so just to kind of recap those qualities that you shared, it has me thinking that we've been talking about this in the family dynamic, but really these symptoms you can also see in individual relationships, you know, the, the blame, the shame successes are minimized. Um, you're maybe ignored. You're downplayed backhanded criticism. They're holding other people to a different standard than they're holding you to, that they don't wanna put you back on. They don't wanna put you on a pedestal'cause you don't belong there. So they have to knock you down. And, and I love how you said that once you identify the theatrics, then you'll stop buying tickets to the show. And I think that's where like the people pleasing comes in, is we keep thinking if I can be good enough, then they'll treat me well.

Elle Boone:

it's a good one. It's, we wanna be perceived as a good one. Yeah. And, and it's about control really, and not in an evil control freak kind of way, but you are manipulating. The situation to protect yourself. It's, it's a coping and protective mechanism that, can be learned, can be inherited. And, you know, we wanna feel safe. So if the person we're having this relationship with makes us feel unsafe, we have to create circumstances, imaginary or otherwise that allow us to feel safe so we can continue to function really. And protect your nervous system as well.'cause sometimes it's, it's hard to confront that someone who you have loved for so long and is supposed to give that back to you, It is not working in your best interest. They're manipulating you. And it makes us shrink. And then so we think, oh, how would do, how do we get out of the smallness? Well, I'll just buy more things for them. I'll do more things for them. And. It's just a spiral. And so once you start to recognize the patterns, this is one of the things that I wanna suggest.

MaryAnn Walker:

Mm-hmm.

Elle Boone:

Look at your patterns. Look at how many times you apologize For, for things that you know aren't your fault or, watch the behavior of other people. When you go to lunch with friends or when you're at work, just notice. How people behave. You don't have to tell them you're surveying them, but you know, just look at how many times they apologize or, do they have patterns in them that you're recognizing in yourself as a way to get some sort of like reverse engineer mirroring. Because I think watching other people's behaviors can be really informative for, for our own,

MaryAnn Walker:

tell me more about that. How has observing other people helped you? Because that's interesting'cause there is that self-reflective piece. But when you are observing other people, what else are you observing besides how often they're apologizing compared to you? Like, what are the other things that, kind of struck you as, oh, that's different.

Elle Boone:

Yeah. So some, things that may not relate to family scapegoating specifically, but just, um, thinking about some of my friends who do over apologize. There's also overgiving. That's the behavior that I've noticed, in others and myself. That's part of the people pleasing dynamic. If I give enough, I'll be considered the good one and I won't be attacked today. And I can, get through work at least. Some of the other behaviors that I have noticed in people is the denial behavior. I've had conversations with friends where, you know, they're in bad relationships and I'll gently say, oh,, I think, you know, have you looked at this? No, no, no, no, no. It's, they minimize the issues. That's, that's another behavior pattern that I've noticed, and it's not that I think it's more that they're, again, they're protecting their own nervous system because if we pull the curtain all the way back at once, it's too much. That's what I did when I first started to figure this out, MaryAnn, I thought I could YouTube my way out of this problem in six months. No. It's deeper than that. There's so many layers. Yeah, tho those are just a few of the behaviors and it's, it's interesting to watch even films, you know, ask yourself how are these characters behaving in this film? Am I like them? Do, do I wanna be more like them? Do I wanna be le have less of their, those behaviors. Films are a really good way to learn about behaviors, especially. Specific films that are geared toward trauma. There's actually a film, that I wanna recommend at the end. I'm gonna save it for the end. Don't lemme forget.

MaryAnn Walker:

Okay.

Elle Boone:

Yeah.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah. Well, and that's so interesting because I, I like say how you said to watch films because I do know specifically people in narcissistic relationships, they're, they have a very easy time identifying who's the narcissist.

Elle Boone:

Right.

MaryAnn Walker:

But to zoom out a little and see if you can identify, okay, who's the golden child, who's the scapegoat, who's the lost child? To see if you can identify those other roles. Once you've identified that, okay, this is a familiar thing, instead of it, it's our tendency to just focus on the other person. Right? But I like he said, okay, well look for how it's showing up in other roles so that you can identify those parts of self, I think could be very helpful.

Elle Boone:

And I think it's easier too than sitting down and dissecting your own personality. So for me, when, when I started to figure out the people pleasing dynamic in myself, going through all these videos and learning the, the vocabulary, the nomenclature, I thought, oh yes, I do that and, and that. And I kept coming back to people pleasing. And it took me a couple of years. To really dismantle that part of my personality because it had become such a protective energy, in my family dynamic and, and being an empath and a highly sensitive person. I feel tomorrow's feelings, you know, if we feel everything, but it's, it's a tough role and, The people pleasing for me was the biggest pattern that I really started to dismantle and rebuild, and so I had to ask myself often, am I really that nice?

MaryAnn Walker:

Hmm.

Elle Boone:

I really that kind? Am I really that generous? And I have always, and I still, because I am a generous person, I finally figured it out. Yes, I am kind. I'm not evil. I am not what they said I was. So there's this identity crisis, I think that happens in the scapegoat role. I'm actually working on a course, about rebuilding or, or healing the identity wound and rebuilding a new identity. Without the dysfunction because we don't know who we are outside of the dysfunction until we start to rebuild that. So people pleasing for me was the first pattern to go, and I still to this day wanna help people. If I see someone stranded on the side of the road, my impulse says, pull over. And then my safety voice says, what are you thinking? And then I have to remember, oh, that might be a people pleasing energy. that is coming up from my past, but now I can stop it and not over give. Which is a huge part of my people pleasing problem. And then I let you know I give so much and then I don't get anything back, and then I'm upset. I'm like, but you're supposed to reciprocate. I'm supposed to not give so much. That's really the dynamic I. You don't, don't give as much. Um, and it's hard for someone who's been a people pleaser for a long time to suddenly stop pleasing.

MaryAnn Walker:

For sure. And to untangle that of trying to think through.'cause it's when love has been conditional for so long.

Elle Boone:

Mm-hmm.

MaryAnn Walker:

It's easy to think, okay, well now that I've broken free, now that I see it, now I can have this. And then still trying to figure out, okay, well what does it look like to create balance?'cause like you said, sometimes we are overgiving thinking that then they'll see our value and come to us, but then we end up burned out and resentful and like, okay, well maybe I need to pull back a little so they can have the opportunity. And maybe they will and maybe they won't and but it is interesting. And then especially like you said, when you're going through that identity crisis. That just adds another layer where it's like, well, I don't quite know who I am. Am I a nice person? I think that that's gonna be really impactful for a lot of people.'cause I know a lot of the people pleasers I've worked with, they think, well, if I'm not a people pleaser, I'm gonna be mean. It's like, no, you're not a mean person. You, you're just not going to over accommodate anymore. You're going to make sure that your own cup is filled and you're not mean, and you're not evil. You're not the things that they've told you that you are, but allowing that identity to shed so that you can live more authentically.

Elle Boone:

And you said something really beautiful in a podcast that I watched this week on the Fear of abandonment.

MaryAnn Walker:

Hmm

Elle Boone:

It's, that's true for both scapegoats and others who have people pleasing tendencies but weren't scapegoated. It, it can be, it can be on, on both sides. The fear of rejection, abandonment, loss, that's where that all comes from. And yeah, it does.

MaryAnn Walker:

to recap that, that yeah, that, that having that fear of abandonment leads to that self abandonment, which I think is what you were just describing, is I don't know who I am anymore, because I've abandoned myself in an effort to please, and

Elle Boone:

And survive.

MaryAnn Walker:

losing people that Yeah. That we abandoned ourself.

Elle Boone:

Yeah, that is so well said. We really do. And, and then we're lost and confused and depressed and, and not functioning at our full capacity. So it does take some, like you said earlier, some untangling and the, biggest thing I want everyone listening to take away from this, especially if you're just figuring out uhoh, she said something that makes me possibly be the scapegoat. Just take your healing really slowly and be intentional about your healing. Don't do what I did during the pandemic and over consume to the point of panic attacks and mass confusion like. And find community and support that, is rooted in, scapegoating or people pleasing because they can, they can be different. And I do wanna talk about the difference, a little bit of people pleasing versus codependency. Is this something that you've explored on your show?

MaryAnn Walker:

I don't know if I've said it explicitly, so yeah, share more about that.

Elle Boone:

Okay, let me, find my notes because. Scapegoating, and people pleasing, they go together. But I don't, think that in everyone who's a people pleaser has been scapegoated. People pleasing. Like we said, it comes out of the fear of abandonment and wanting to protect and not lose and keep the status quo and keep the peace. With codependency, it's more of a, survival technique. Where I've got to find this note because I wrote this out and it was so perfect. The codependent person is enmeshed with the narcissist, to the point where, especially with the golden child, there is a lack of individuality. They're so enmeshed they're, kind of one person And so, it's sort of like codependency is like people pleasing on steroids.

MaryAnn Walker:

Mm-hmm.

Elle Boone:

You're, super enmeshed. It's a survival mechanism rather than seeking approval. That's one of the big differences, if that makes sense. And I know you talk about people pleasing a lot on your show. That's the main focus, right?

MaryAnn Walker:

yeah.

Elle Boone:

And have you come across any scapegoat people in your practice so far? Is this newer to your ears?

MaryAnn Walker:

Well, it's interesting because I was getting requests on YouTube to talk about this, and that was right when I met you and, so it has been interesting to see how it's showing up, but to be able to put words on the experience, you know, as you've talked about it, I can see more. Okay. I can see that. Many of my clients are going to fit into this role. But it's, very interesting to actually put a name on it, I think can help to bring so much clarity and it helps you to feel not as alone when you've talked about the isolation that can come with it. Just putting a word on it can help you to feel not so alone and not so crazy that, well, what, what's wrong with me? Something must be wrong with me because they've always been telling you that something's wrong with you. Right? So it's easy to believe that, but to give it a name and see, oh, it's not me really. I think it's just so valuable.

Elle Boone:

Yeah. Yeah.

MaryAnn Walker:

So I think that we've te Oh, go ahead.

Elle Boone:

no, no, no, no. You're good. You're fine. Go ahead.

MaryAnn Walker:

Okay. So I was gonna say, I think that we've teased them enough and I would love to get a list of your resources and what supports now that they're probably identifying that, oh, that might be me. Tell us more about what supports you have found helpful.

Elle Boone:

So, as I mentioned earlier, the book by Rebecca Rejected, shamed, and Blamed. There's an audible version as well and a hard copy Amazon, wherever you get your books. I highly recommend that. She's also got a pretty strong presence on, Substack, if you're familiar with that. And, that book alone has, done more for me than. Than any other research that I've done, Including all of the YouTube videos that I've watched., There aren't a lot specifically on the scapegoat role. And the same for podcasts. There just aren't many out there unfortunately. The film I wanna suggest is a documentary by Gabor Mate. I know I mentioned him the first time we met. Lemme get the titles. So I don't mess it up. He's also, what I consider, this is my own term, sort of the godfather of trauma. And he has a number of books out. And this movie I watched sometime during the pandemic, it's called The Wisdom of Trauma,

MaryAnn Walker:

The wisdom of trauma. Fascinating.

Elle Boone:

It is. Yeah, it was for me, it was sort of at the peak of, increasing my compassion for those who had scapegoated me in my family, which is a tough one, and we can call it forgiveness or compassion, radical acceptance. But that comes later. Like first step, identify your patterns, your behaviors,. Make sure that you know, you, you were the family scapegoat by that checklist that we went through and do your own research. Um, there's another film. And it's not necessarily on scapegoating, it was done by a group of people at the uk and if I can't find it real quick, I will send it to you so you can include it in the show notes. Um, it was more about narcissism and, it's on YouTube. That's what it is. I think it was free. The Gabor Mate film was a donation based, watch. Um, so yeah, I'm not finding it, but I will, I will find it and I will send it to you. Um, for those who are interested in learning about the relationship, it's not a family dynamic. It was about two people dating and, it was really eyeopening because like I said, scapegoating can come with narcissism or without it. So it's important to understand both and take your healing slowly. I have a couple of other tips that I think would help listeners, look at your patterns. Take your healing slowly, and start to think about your identity because this really is an identity crisis in the middle of it, there's a lot of chaos and confusion that goes with this role. But once you start to figure out your own patterns, then you can start to rebuild your future based on healthier patterns. That create a life that is more enjoyable, That invites less, narcissism and scapegoating'cause that can happen in any dynamic in any group. And we talked about this earlier, people pleasers tend to be a little bit more vulnerable and open and generous. So we can be targets for that kind of energy. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

MaryAnn Walker:

And I can see how just taking that time to even think about your own identity and how do I see myself, could be so helpful when you're being told that you're something else. And of course that's going to create an identity crisis because it's kind of gaslighting, right? Saying, no, you are this horrible being. It's like, wait, what? Who am I? What did I say that? Did I do that? So I love those tips. So you said first identify your patterns and behaviors. Second, take your healing slowly, and third, start to think about your personal identity to help to untangle all of that.

Elle Boone:

Yeah, and a quote, I, I tried to find where this came from. I've seen it a number of times, but it's has stuck and I can't find the original author, but it stuck with me for years, and that is to be careful of what you tolerate because you are teaching people how to treat you so good. Boundaries, right. Yeah. but, and noticing your own patterns, will help you identify, oh, this person's giving me breadcrumbs.

MaryAnn Walker:

Mm-hmm.

Elle Boone:

Hmm. What am I doing to allow that? I want the whole loaf. I don't want just the crumbs. I deserve more. But first is the awakening. You have to figure out, what your behavior patterns are. And just be really easy on yourself. Just take your time, take it as slow as you can. Be intentional with your healing because don't do what I did over consume and like the doom scrolling, and then get stuck on a new influencer on TikTok or whatever that's giving you new information about the narcissism in your family. Like maybe schedule your, intake, the consumption of the information so that you're rested and fed and feeling good and you're of sound mind when you're learning about it, so that you don't get really reactive and over emotional and go into a spiral like I did. Yeah.

MaryAnn Walker:

Such good advice. Yeah. So what words of encouragement do you have for those that are at the beginning of this journey?

Elle Boone:

You know, I would say you, you were never the problem. You are, it's not your fault. You have hidden talents and, and, parts of you that you've yet to discover that are buried under this identity that you have been given, that's been forced upon you, and that you've adopted out of necessity, out of survival. And just recognize that some, some of that's in the past now, hopefully most of it, and that there is a way out and that you can heal from this. But be careful, with your, over consumption and find community that understand this dynamic that can support you and listen to your story so you can feel seen and heard and validated and be a contributing member of society rather than reclusive in your home, In the pantry, if you will.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah.

Elle Boone:

Yeah.

MaryAnn Walker:

Well, that is beautiful. Elle, thank you so much for being here. This has been

Elle Boone:

you.

MaryAnn Walker:

an amazing conversation. And tell everybody again, where can they find you? Tell'em the name of your podcast. I'm gonna make sure that this drops about the same time so they can jump over and follow you and subscribe.'cause like you said, there's so few resources for those that have been scapegoated, and I think that your channel is going to be an extremely valuable resource. So tell us more about how they can find you.

Elle Boone:

Thank you. Yes. I'm also on Substack. I don't, engage quite as much as I will after the launch. And both that and the podcast can be found. Uh, there is a trailer out right now, I will say not on Apple because strategically I wanna get as many, uh, reviews to get us into a higher ranking so we have more visibility and can reach more people. But once that launches, it will go straight to Apple and it's called the Family Scapegoat Chronicles. And if, if anyone listening is unfortunately the scapegoat in your family and you wanna come on the show, that's gonna be a huge part of the format where we interview either anonymously, or like this on, on camera where people can come and share their story in a safe space and find community.

MaryAnn Walker:

That's beautiful because I'm sure that finding your voice and giving voice to the ways that you've been wronged can just be so healing for people. And not only that, but hearing those stories and knowing you're not alone, I, think that's just gonna be beautiful.

Elle Boone:

Yeah. And critical, I think for healing as well. And hopefully I can be a, a part of that for many people, because already I have like 12 or 13 different countries that have listened to the trailer. So it's a global issue. It's not, you know, just one or two families. It's a thing. So I'm so grateful that you invited me here today because we're just getting started and you're kicking it off, so thank you. Yeah.

MaryAnn Walker:

thank you so much and yeah, thank you for all of the healing that you're bringing into the world. It's beautiful to witness.

Elle Boone:

Thank you. Likewise. I love your show. I love your show. I can't wait to dig in more. So,

MaryAnn Walker:

Oh good. Well, thank you so much. I'm glad that we were able to connect.

Elle Boone:

yes. And maybe you can come on our show and share your story and, and expertise. I think that would be amazing. Yeah.

MaryAnn Walker:

I'd love to. All right. Well, thank you so much everybody for being here. And as a reminder, you can find all of the resources that Elle talked about here on the show. I will link all of them in the show notes so that you can find support, community, and healing. So thank you so much and I'll see you next week.

Elle Boone:

Thank you. Take care. Bye everyone.