0103. It was almost a fever dream. Transitioning from customer relations to building a Communications firm.

In this episode, we welcome our first podcast guest Lauren Perna, CEO & Head Writer for Lauren Perna Communications. Lauren is also the founder of Mentally Fit Founder to bring awareness to mental health, speaking on her own challenges over the years. We touch on her transition into the life sciences industry and how that spearheaded her decision to start her own communications firm to help the life science community tell their story.

Listen in to find out best practices for attracting people to your organization through words, in just 5 seconds.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Clean by Design Podcast, a podcast that takes a deep dive into the complex, ever-changing world of biotech, pharma, and related industry, where we explore the relationship between people and workflow design. I'm your host, Oscar Gonzalez, alongside my co-host Lawrence Wall. Come along as we learn from industry experts as we can deliver five-foot tips and tell inspiring stories of update for the world. All right, well, here we are, episode three. Lawrence, we finally made it to three episodes. So, you know, some excitement here. Hopefully, we have listeners that are uh, you know, jumping on the wagon and really joining us for all this content. Um, we are very grateful here to have Lauren Perna from Lauren Perna Communication. She is the CEO and lead writer. Uh, she's been a part of really engaging uh uh members in the scientific community. You know, her work now really looks to take the stories that companies uh have and and really bring them to life and and really taking that technical jargon into something that resonates with folks. So we are super lucky to have her uh on our podcast today. Say, Lauren, go ahead and say hello to all of the listeners that we have from the first couple of episodes.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Hey guys, this is Lauren. Thank you so much for having me on.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

So, Lauren, you've been uh you're also the co-leader of the Women's Business League and you've started this community as well around uh mental health, uh, the mentally fit founder. Um can you talk a little bit about what, you know, how that kind of uh uh where that inspiration came from to really speak out on those things?

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Yeah, yeah. Um, you know, for me, mental health is something that I've been very passionate about for a long time because I have struggled with my mental health. Um, I never really talked about it too much. I just kind of, you know, personally followed kind of uh, you know, Mental Health America and all other kind of similar organizations. Um and last year in 2021, I decided to share my story of struggling with my mental health. And I um, you know, shared it on Facebook. I thought maybe just a few people would like it, and then it kind of went viral, um, which you know did not was not my intention. And I really just wanted to share my story. And from there, I just kind of realized the impact of telling your story, you know, in our world, mental illness is still very much taboo. You know, we are really heads and tails above where we were even a year or two years ago, as far as mental illness being accepted. But these days, you know, it's still not given the same validity as something like um a physical illness. And that's where I come in. I want to tell my story so people can understand that, yeah, mental illness is just as serious as a physical illness, and it shouldn't be treated any separately. And um, so that's where the mentally fit founder came in. I'm working hard to kind of build that community, but um, you know, I also do a few other things.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

So it's fantastic. I mean, it's it's so important, and especially now, you know, you alluded to the first year or two, uh, you know, the last two years or so, how the look into mental health has changed. You know, now companies are uh initiating, you know, mental health days as you know part of your PTO package. Um, and and as you can imagine, a lot of people are now, you know, they're they're kind of feeling those effects and feeling, you know, potentially that there are some uh spaces of mental illness that are affecting them because we went from seeing people every day, you know, to having those interactions to now, you know, being put into isolation uh, you know, through COVID and the pandemic. So you kind of you see these things kind of surface and you go, why do I feel this way? And it's you may have been masking uh uh what those internal feelings have been because you've just been able to kind of bounce off of the energies of folks around you. But when you're like kind of left by yourself, you know, that's that's when things become a little bit difficult.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

So you're so yeah, it's just been one more thing. And then, you know, because I enjoyed sharing my story and talking about the advocacy, I tried to target a few more clients in mental health. Um, but it all aligns with, you know, the majority of my clients are life science. But all in all, I'm really just focusing on companies that are helping improve human health, whether it's physical or mental.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

That's awesome. That's fantastic. And it's uh it's super important. And I'm glad that we have, you know, somebody like you that really understands the value and and can help communicate that value uh to these companies so that we're kind of you know starting to mold these organizations into places that make sense for the times that we're in, for the people that we're trying to hire, um, because there are fantastic people that are out there that uh that we need to, again, as you mentioned before, not just catering to physical ailments, but looking at the mental ones as well. So that's very, very important. Yeah. And so uh uh you got your degree. Uh, you know, we're gonna we're gonna go back a little bit. You got your degree from from Fordham uh in New York. And uh and I noticed you had that in communications as well. And you started to um shortly after that, you started working, uh, you transitioned into working directly with um biotech and pharma companies and member services and engagement services. So can you talk a little bit about your experience in there um when you met with the the different uh organizations and the people alike? Can you talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Yeah, yeah. So I um yes, I went to Fordham. I left the Boston area for uh a couple couple of years, but I came back. Um and I the bulk of my career was at um the Biocheck Trade Organization here in Boston. But before that, I did um like customer service, retail management, just a few of those things. And I always joke that retail um gave me the best experience of my life. You'll you'll never um the good, the bad, the ugly. Yeah, you really do. It it's retail is tough. Um but the organization that I worked for for a long time, um, yes, it was a member services organization for the biotech industry. And I um my role was primarily customer service, helping those companies that join our organization um gain visibility in Massachusetts and you know in the life science industry in general. Um and because it's a membership organization and a nonprofit, I did a lot of everything too. So I did um events and marketing and comms and um kind of you know a very multifaceted role, which is really where I thrive when I can do a lot of everything. And definitely um I've got the both the big thinker and the executor brain. So it was really such a joy being there because I could really kind of take my ideas and execute them. But um, you know, the true story is that when I got the job at Mass Bio, I didn't even know what biotech was. Um yeah, I had to look it up. So, and I also got the job on Craigslist. So it tells you it was a long time ago.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

I was curious about that transition. Um, did you always have science in your background or kind of you know something that you found interest in?

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Yeah, definitely. It's funny. I remember in high school I was trying to decide whether I wanted to go into communications or science. Um, but ultimately, you know, in my heart I'm a writer. So I knew I wanted to communicate. Um so that's why, you know, like the job was a perfect fit because I could, you know, tell stories, connect with people, and have it, the focus is, you know, human health. So it was um, it always felt very natural to me. So yeah, that um when I started, you know, over a decade ago, a long time ago, I, you know, really I didn't know anything about biotech. Um, and the organization was fairly small. And by the time I left, nine years later, um, the organization had really tripled. And um obviously I was very entrenched in the life science industry. And um I just I learned a lot. I knew a lot of lifelong learners. So I really um just kind of dug in. And the thing too is because I was working so hand in hand with these companies, I had to know what they did, I had to like understand. So um yeah, so now here I am.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

I and that's uh, you know, that's that's event, that's ultimately how we ended up uh meeting each other because you know, once I found out that one of the organizations that I worked for was also a member, I said, well, let me go ahead and see how many people around here in our company would go to these events. And I found out that we were a company of, you know, eventually we got to around 400 and no one was going to these events. And I would see coming in, you know, coming in through email, Celtics game, Red Sox game, Bruins game, and and and what have you. And so every time I I joined all of these uh activities, Lauren was right there front and center. I'm like, hey, Lauren again, like this is awesome, you know. So it was uh, you know, that's kind of how um Lauren and I ended up uh connecting and and just seeing just really how uh jovial of a person you were, and it was such an easy conversation. And believe me when I say this, you could have had zero knowledge of science, and I totally would not have even picked up on it. So, you know, you you definitely were you were definitely talking the talk and walking the walk. So uh I definitely enjoyed, you know, being able to attend these networking events.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Yeah, yeah. That was um, you know, the company had our had always done networking, but um, I could just tell that there was a hunger for that type of interaction in the life science community, especially from people kind of in our age group that maybe, you know, had just moved to Boston too. A lot of people in the life science industry are not from here originally. Um that was kind of like what I was hearing a lot. And they're also, you know, not the most outgoing people. So I thought that if we could do things with like an activity with like, you know, a Celtics game or a Red Sox game, that would really be a nice icebreaker rather than having 50 people standing in a room with a drink trying to figure out who to who should talk first. Um those worked out really, really well. They were just so fun.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Absolutely. Networking can be kind of tough because um, you know, I know uh my father, we we had a uh my my father received an award as a as Hispanic in science and engineering, and I went to this event, and this was in uh LA, and he had mentioned that oh, you know, there's this little networking event for all the recipients. And my father, who had worked for NASA for 40 years, had never, never gone to any kind of networking event. So he, as as uh humble as he is, I mean, he is very humble person, uh, he kind of was was just like, Oscar, what are you supposed to do in these things? And and you know, we it was like in the lobby of like one of the hotels or something. And as we're kind of walking by, my my my mother, my sister, and I, my brother wasn't able to make it, but we're kind of walking by and we could see my dad just kind of off at a cocktail table, just kind of like, who should I go and talk to? Like, I don't know anybody, and and and you know, to your point, those kind of events they really help kind of bring down the the the icebreakers and and they kind of help uh alleviate that level of stress of I need to go say something and not sound like a moron, uh, rather than hey, I can go and say, Whoa, like that was a great three-pointer, or oh man, did you see that home run and kind of start a conversation with something that just happened?

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Yeah, you have you have a built-in icebreaker when you're there. So exactly definitely those are some really great events. So that that and that was how I got to know the life science community so well because I you know was at the helm of those events and um had to go to them all.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

So you're listening to Lean by Design Podcast, and we'll be right back after a quick break. Thank you to our sponsor, Lauren Perna Communications, a Boston-based digital communications firm for life sciences, healthcare, and mental health companies. Life science companies have an important story, but it's not always easy with the industry jargon. Lauren and her team turn your technical talk into compelling content that feels authentic to your brand and resonates with your audience. If you need help with your digital content or copywriting, visit laurenperna.com to learn more about how they can tell your company story. And so when you moved from that role that you had almost a decade, and you had a little bit of time where you decided to kind of consult, uh, and then prior to to starting your own communications firm, what what was it like? What was kind of going through your head when you went from this great role that you have had a number of uh promotions, you you received roles with additional responsibility, and then you decided, you know what, I'm gonna try to do something on my own. What what uh how did that come through?

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Um in my head, I was like, what the heck am I doing? Oh my god, am I crazy? Um no, so I decided to I left and I um took a little bit of a break. I I just needed some time to kind of realign and rest and kind of figure out where to go from there because um, you know, I didn't really know what to do next. My job was very tailored to me. Um, and I I knew I needed to do something else, but I was having a really hard time figuring out what did that look like? What did I have the skill set for? And that's you know, kind of like a whole other podcast, but you know, it was really tough. Um having a multifaceted skill set when, you know, you're trying to work in an industry that really likes to narrow people down to a specific skill set. Um so that that made it really challenging for me. So I decided to scrap the job search instead of finding another job. I just took some time off and tried to figure out what to do. Um, and that's when I took little jobs doing um social media for a local campaign. I did just some general marketing and comms for another nonprofit. Uh, and then I took on another kind of marketing and comms um more hours job. And I really just liked the social media. I really liked writing and storytelling. And that was something that obviously I had to do so much of at my long-term job because, first of all, everybody's always interacts with email. So I was always writing emails, and uh just the nature of my job, I was always like storytelling and coming up with text for events and you know, different different um pieces of collateral. So I already knew that I loved writing and I loved the kind of like short pithy marketing and social communications, but um, I had not really thought that was the direction I was gonna go in until I started taking those contract jobs. Really loved doing that, and I was like, all right, this is the direction I want to go in. I really thought maybe I needed another like year or two in the corporate world before kind of jumping out on my own. But alas, something called COVID came into our lives, and that was just not possible. So I was I have a house up in Lake Winnipeg, which is like two hours from Boston. So I was driving up to our house with my dog, COVID thing is real. What am I gonna do? Jesse, her name's Jesse. Um, me and Jessie have a little conversation, and I'm like, I'm just I think I'm just gonna like start a business. And I was just like, you know, a conversation in my head as I'm driving, and I got to my house, and like it was almost like a fever dream. I like bought Lauren Kern.com like in the middle of the night, like, and I was like, all right, I'm doing it. And I have to say though, my husband is also self-employed. We have um a property that he manages our property, so that's his job. So the whole time I've seen him kind of be his own boss, do his own thing, be able to just, you know, kind of jump in the car and go as he pleases. So that always really appealed to me, especially since we have a house somewhere else. Um not to be tied to a desk. So it's not like this was like out of left field, you know. I had been like seeing him succeed and like really, you know, wanting that. Like my dad owned his own business for 40 years, so it's it's already in my blood. I just really didn't think that I was ready. I think that's the biggest, you know, difference is that I didn't have like a plan or anything like that. I was just like speaver dreams blah and print.com and then just kind of went from there. And the business is definitely like at gentload. Um, when I first started, I really was like, oh, I'm just gonna help like small business if there's some life science, right? But then small business, as we were talking about before this talk, don't have a lot of money. So um, you know, I it was a harder pitch to pitch my services. So then I went back to the life science world where I knew I could really sell the value of my services, and uh, you know, the companies are in more you know mid-stage would be willing to pay because they do need someone to tell their story, and they knew do need someone that can turn that technical text into 260 characters. Um, and that's definitely where I shine. So that was definitely um an easier solve than like the mom and pop shops I was targeting initially.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yeah, you know, it's uh what you're describing, I think, is something that a lot of us had gone through. And and, you know, we had this idea for for our company as well, and and we it kind of went through these same things. And I think what you're describing uh is a little bit of um imposter syndrome, which I've been guilty of myself, where you know, you have 10 years here and you know, you know, you know your stuff, but like you said, uh position was somewhat tailored to you. So now you're thinking, okay, well, how do I apply this to other spaces? Because this job was made because I can be effective in this space. So how do I apply that to another job that perhaps that description is not, say, Lauren Perna? You know, how do I translate that? And and kudos to you to to having this drive. And and dare I say, was it when you were driving and seeing the leaf change, you realized it was change for yourself? Is is that kind of the revelation that happened?

SPEAKER_01 21:08

I know. I think it was in the spring. Okay, okay. Maybe the flowers were blooming or something.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Perfect, yes. New growth, new growth. Yeah, yeah. It's such a a really important part of I think our development um as experts in our own right, you know, to eventually feel and understand and say, you know what, like I don't know everything that's about to happen, but I do know that I can really deliver something that people need. And I think once you once you caught that of I need to do this in the life sciences, I have no doubt in my mind that people are going to start to see the the value there. And, you know, we've felt the value already just in the conversations that we've had and how to focus our message and how to. Really uh uh, you know, kind of bring in other ancillary industries without kind of looking too broad. And and so, you know, thank you for for giving us those little nuggets just in our conversation.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Yeah, yeah, no worries. Happy to help.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

You've gone from uh, you know, working in communications, working in, you know, member services, doing the retail thing, which we can probably have a full episode on talking retail. I almost wanted to write a book on my retail experiences.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Oh my gosh, where did you work?

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Oh, I so I worked uh I actually worked for T-Mobile for uh a couple of years. I worked at Men's Warehouse. Uh, you like the way you look, I guarantee it. Um you know, I and and just even when you're so let me just say this no one is ever super excited about their cell phone company or plan. So when you're working in the store, it's almost like 90% of the people that walk through that door, they are angry about something. And because you are wearing that magenta shirt, you are the one that we are going to attack because I need you to fix this, even though the only thing we can do is what the computer screen tells us we can do. So we've had a, you know, there's a lot of I had spent hours with customers, and that's a commission paid job. So you're trying to help people out and move on to the next, help people out, move on to the next. There had been instances where I spent two to three hours because they did not want to break that connection. They wanted to continue, you know, whatever conversation or whatever they believed was an issue that technically wasn't an issue. Um, so it was uh a wild experience. Uh, but my first one was actually I worked inside of a Bass Pro Shop selling um uh vacations for a timeshare company. Oh, oh it basically was what everybody hated.

unknown 24:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Oh my gosh. And now I hear apps on the radio for like lawyers to help people get out of those timeshares.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Yeah, yeah. So I was that one. Hey, it was a cheap vacation, and you get some vouchers, uh, but yeah, you have to sit over here and they're probably gonna push you to buy a timeshare. Uh so, but I know that we can get into that uh in and probably a whole nother episode of just uh the retail life. Yeah, it was a good experience. It taught you a lot of patience. And you know, I think um that goes a long way in a lot of different industries, whether it's working with uh customers or even working with coworkers, that not everybody is gonna receive communications the same way. And I'm preaching to the choir here because one of the things that I that I uh uh I do a couple of of uh talks, I do a couple at Northeastern uh twice a year. And you know, as I'm presenting and I'm talking to them, one of the things that I tell them is that you really need to understand who your audience is. Because if you're talking to your team, if you're talking to a different department, if you're presenting at a uh conference, you know, understand who those people are because the way you communicate to them has to change uh according to who your audience is. And I'm sure that you've seen, you know, a lot of that where you're reading copy that somebody has prepared and it's like it sounds like your audience is over there and not your customers. You need to kind of, you know, so I imagine you're seeing that quite a bit.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Yeah, that that's a huge part of what I do is help people, you know, kind of turn their um their copy into something that someone will read through the screen and resonate with a lot of times, especially in our industry, but it's not unique to life science. What happens is a lot of people just take you know the message and just put it out there, you know, like they they give you the facts, but that's very boring. And you know, you you have like five seconds to get someone's attention, uh especially if we're talking about something like LinkedIn or Twitter, any social media platform, people are just scrolling. So if you are just regurgitating, you know, like here's our services, that that's not gonna get anybody to stop the scroll. So you really wanna, you know, why would someone care about your services? What you know are you appealing to? What kind of inner fear do these people have that your solution is helping? And how can you appeal to that in five seconds? Um, it's not an easy task, but I think once you kind of understand what's at the heart of the story, you know, is a company, you know, in your guy's case, really at the end of the day, your audience is, you know, just wants to operate as efficiently as possible so they can get drugs to patients as fast as possible. And, you know, if they are operating with bottlenecks, that's not happening. So, how can you appeal to that kind of deep-seated fear that they're not working fast enough for patients? That's, you know, instead of just saying, here's our services. And I'm just using you guys as an example, you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

No, that's that's actually a great segue because one of the things that I wanted to get your thoughts on is, you know, over these 10 years, as you start to develop your craft, you are uh, you know, put up against workflows in in different scenarios, ways of working, that as you start to utilize those those uh mechanisms that are set forth, you know, in front of you by the company, uh, by previous uh you know, SOPs? Did you ever find yourself where you had to take on a task or where they said, hey, here's how we're gonna do this, take a look at it, and it just flops, or it really does not reach that appeal that you're looking for. What what happened in that in that instance and and how did you decide we need a better way to do this because the status quo is not gonna work?

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Yeah, yeah. So I think um for my organization was a nonprofit, and with any nonprofit, you're always you know trying to maximize with uh you know a minimal budget. That's you know the nature of a nonprofit, unless you're a national organization, and even then. So there's always kind of opportunities to improve workflow, to improve processes. And if you had the biggest budget in the world, you probably could solve those problems um in an instant. But when you don't have a large budget, you're trying to solve those issues creatively. So that's what I always did was really trying and figure out what can we, how can we take these workflow issues and solve them with the existing tools that we have, like Excel or um, you know, we had a couple of different programs. So in that I've done a lot of work over the years, not just for my style, but also other nonprofits. I'm on a couple of boards and have been in the past. And that's a common theme through nonprofit. And I think that really resonates um with the life science industry because in the beginning, you know, when you're first have your first few rounds of funding, you don't have the budget to, you know, purchase a huge enterprise project management system. You don't have the budget, you have, you know, you have to take every dollar you receive and put it to the science. So, you know, in the nonprofit world, you have to take every dollar you receive and put it towards your goal, you know, whether that is consumers or advocacy or whatnot. So all in all, I've really seen across all of my experience that it's about thinking creatively and kind of using the tools that you have and really finding solutions and owning them. I think that's the biggest key has been for me. I I'm a big fan of Excel. So a lot of the procedures that weren't in place, I implemented in Excel. I think that's an easy, quick solution, especially for a nonprofit or a life science company with no, you know, in the early stages, really tracking everything in Excel and making sure that um everybody has access to the document and is keeping tabs on, you know, whatever, whether it's a project or certain SOPs or team members or something, you know, as simple as who's on the team and what's their birthday. You know, those are small things that can get lost in a small company when there is no one tracking it, and there is no HR person or what's no process. So for me, it's always about putting those processes into Excel or at the bare minimum a Word document where everyone can have access to it on a shared drive. And those things may sound simple to you or me or people listening, but you know, when you're in the moment and you're um, you know, like doing the actual function, whether it's the science or the interaction with you know your cause, those things get lost because you're so focused on the mission at hand. And you know, that I know that because I've not just my career, but like I said, I've done a lot of work with nonprofits over the years. And um, that's the one thing that I see through and through is that people are so deeply passionate that kind of the workflow gets lost.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

And I mean, you're bringing up a good point because I think what I find is that uh when we're put up against a clock, hey, we have a deadline, hey, we have a goal to meet, it's the end of the quarter, what have you. And we're looking at these massive amounts of information that we either need to collate or we need to kind of parse out or filter through the initial gut instinct is uh more of a defensive mechanism. I'm gonna do the way that I know how to do it, even if that is a very costly time, uh time costly uh way of doing things, rather than saying, let me take you know a half an hour and try to look at everything that I have to do and try to find the best opportunity to bring these things in together so it's more efficient. You know, you get that kind of like, this is what I have to do, and then you find people, you know, opening document after document, you know, looking for one specific piece of information rather than trying to find another way around it. And and to your point, what you were saying earlier is you know, it's so important to have somebody to own that process, to own the curation of it, because just saying, hey, here's something new, you guys just fill in information whenever you get a chance, that's not gonna be enough. Uh yeah to like you said, when you're when you're promoting communicating, you have about five seconds to convince somebody that this new thing that you're now making them do is gonna benefit them more than what they were doing previously.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Definitely trouble.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

You're listening to Lean by Design Podcast, and we'll be right back after a quick break. Do you suspect your life sciences company could do things more efficiently? Maybe you're seeing costly workflow issues, or maybe the work feels more difficult to perform than necessary, affecting team morale. If any of this resonates, reach out to the team at Sigma Lab Consulting for a free consultation on how we can develop and launch a custom solution fit for your team. Our consultants will build a custom workflow solution for your team to reach peak efficiency. Find out more at www.sigma labconsulting.com. We are running down on time. And so Lauren, it has been a great time catching up. Um, I always love catching up and having conversations. Um, is there anything you would like to leave our listeners with uh before you go?

SPEAKER_01 35:14

Yeah, yeah. So this this has been my my lesson this year. It's been ask for help. You know, because when it comes to workflow and when you are an entrepreneur or self-employed or small business, your instinct is the Academy to just do it yourself to save money, to save time, because it's you know, for me, I think, oh, this is my baby, like I want to do it my leg. But that right there is a workflow gap. That is gonna create a big bottleneck. That's something that I had really come to terms with this year, is that um I'm only gonna get so far if I don't ask for help. And you know, I'm not gonna be able to process these into place if I don't have anyone helping me. So that's uh it's still a lesson that I'm learning. So maybe I'm telling myself the lesson too. But for everyone listening, it's definitely do not be afraid to ask for help. Um, and I think that's you know, not easy for anybody, maybe for other people have the ability to accept help more. But if I know people in this industry, I know it sometimes can feel like I just gotta do it myself, especially if you have amazing therapy. It's sometimes it can be hard to let people in when you have something really exciting and exciting, technology therapy, medicine, but you gotta ask for help.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

There you go, folks. Ask for help, especially, especially in this entrepreneurial space. And and I I'm right there with you, Lauren. Uh, you know, Lawrence and I, we we have a coach that we meet with, you know, monthly and and we bounce off ideas, and it's been eternally helpful. You know, we've been working with them for um, I think we're approaching a year now, and just you know, even being able to bounce these ideas that we have, where you know, we're able to kind of get these questions, you know, answered in a way that is not uh, you know, pushing anything into our space where we are the ones that have the creative freedom to come up with the answers. Um, and so it's been you know eternally grateful. And and I think we can all, not only in our professional careers, but in our personal careers, you know, really um, you know, develop that uh ability to ask for help and not feel that we are some sort of failure because we didn't do it alone. So exactly.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

Exactly. And that's yeah, I think that's what well sounds too. It's definitely not nothing to do with you you or reflection on your abilities, it's just about bandwidth, you know.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

Exactly, exactly, and your mental health.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

Exactly. So, yes, and that's that's why I always leave people with that, you know. As far as mental health goes, you are never alone. So be sure to um know that. And anyone can always reach out to me.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

So ask for help. Well, there you have it, folks. Lauren Perna of Lauren Perna Communications. Thank you so much for joining us today. Absolute pleasure. And we'll catch you next time. You've been listening to the Lean by Design podcast, music by Alex Grohl and Anton Vlasov of Pixabay, produced by Michelle Gonzalez, hosted by Oscar Gonzalez and Lawrence Wong of Sigma Lab Consultant. Thank you for listening. Until next time, stay curious. Thank you for joining us today. Want to get updates on new episodes? Hit the subscribe button at our podcast page. Or head to our website at you want to support the channel or big guests, send us an email at inbydesign at sigma lifeconsulting.com and your idea.