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A Slice of Humble Pie with P2
🥧 A podcast where we curiously explore nutrition, fitness, mindset, sports, wellness, & beyond. ☕️Host @parastoobadie
A Slice of Humble Pie with P2
A Dive into Holistic Wellness and Combat Sports
Are you ready to transform your approach to health and wellness? Step into the world of holistic health and functional medicine with Marko Papuckovski, Clinical Nutritionist, and founder of Humanli Wellness. Marko, a passionate combat sports enthusiast holding a BJJ Black Belt, takes us on a captivating journey across continents, including enlightening experiences at the renowned Tri-Star gym in Montreal, Canada. Get ready for an eye-opening conversation that reveals how holistic health principles not only enhance combat sports performance but also elevate overall well-being for everyone.
In this engaging discussion, we challenge conventional notions of mental health, advocating for a holistic approach that considers the interconnectedness of physical, mental, and emotional aspects. Explore the effectiveness of functional medicine, particularly in addressing autoimmune conditions, and uncover the significance of identifying underlying health issues for lasting solutions. Plus, we debunk common myths surrounding nutrition and athletic performance, shedding light on the true relationship between food intake and skill enhancement.
As we delve deeper, discover the personalized consultation process at Humanli Wellness, emphasizing the power of individual action in achieving health goals. Learn valuable insights on managing stress, optimizing sleep for immune function, and fostering self-belief and resilience. With a wealth of resources at your fingertips, this journey into holistic health and wellness promises to empower you to take charge of your well-being. So, get ready to embark on this transformative adventure with us!
Connect with Marko
https://www.instagram.com/markosdailydose/
Learn more about Humanli Wellness
https://humanliwellness.com/
https://www.instagram.com/humanliwellness/
Website: https://parastoobadie.com/podcast/
Email: asliceofhumblepiewithp2@gmail.com
Instagram: @asliceofhumblepiewithp2
Welcome back to a slice of humble pie with P2. Our guest today, all the way from Australia, is Marco Papuchowski. Marco is a health practitioner, clinical nutritionist and founder of humanly wellness, which is an online functional health clinic intended to support people who want to solve their long-term health concerns. Marco has a bachelor in human nutrition from the University of Wollongong in Australia. His passion for health is personal and we'll learn more about that in a minute. He's also a lifelong mixed martial arts fan and has earned his black belt in Brazilian jujitsu. He lived in Montreal, canada, for a couple of years, actually to train a tri-star in order to develop his fight skills, before focusing more on his business. Now he spends his time helping humans feel better, chatting on podcasts and sharing a daily dose of his extensive knowledge. Today we'll be chatting holistic health within combat sports, but it's definitely going to extend to all human beings, so I am so excited to learn from you. Hi, marco, it is so good to have you on the slice of humble pie. Welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you, good to be here. How do I pronounce your name?
Speaker 1:properly. You say Parastu, Where's?
Speaker 2:that from. It's Persian and so in.
Speaker 1:Farsi means swallowbird, and I'm glad you asked. I was about to ask you the same. Can you give me your full, full pronunciation of your first and last name?
Speaker 2:Marco Papuchkovski.
Speaker 1:Oh cool, yeah, it's Macedonian right. Macedonian yep, yeah, that's awesome and actually good segue, because I know we have some similarities in my research. So you were born in Macedonia, moved to Australia when you were nine and. I was born in Iran and moved to Canada when I was nine. So fun little fact.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 1:And then we met through an online business course and now we're talking you're in Australia, I'm in Canada. So, before we even get into more of that, since we're talking about being people of the world, do you feel that maybe, having lived in all of these different places and you lived in Canada at some point, but we'll get to that in a moment so do you feel that, having lived in different places and traveled a lot, has that helped you with what you're doing personally and professionally right now?
Speaker 2:Personally. Yeah, I mean I met quite a lot of people when I was in Canada that still helped me personally. Like I still have buddies who are copywriters or media buyers or own agencies and we still work together and do quite a lot of cool things. But I think traveling and living in different places kind of broadens your horizons and it gives you perspective of the world. So when being in Sydney, sydney, australia like quite a relatively safe kind of boring city, nothing really goes wrong, nothing really bad happens.
Speaker 2:I mean there's a bit of crime here and there, but growing up in Macedonia and being six years old and playing with a kid down the road who was a gypsy, that lived in a shack and just playing soccer on the street, and seeing that versus what happens here is a very different reality.
Speaker 2:And so I feel like and I feel blessed for it because growing up in Macedonia you would be out on the street playing till 10pm and everyone in the neighborhood knows who you are and all the parents know who you are and everyone takes care of each other, and it helped me be really sociable and so it's a lot easier for me versus, say, my younger sister, who was born here, to be sociable, to get into a room and whether it's a room of doctors or CEOs or martial artists and just hold my own and talk and feel comfortable. So it's really helped in that sense and I think a lot of people growing up in the West and I say West, like America, canada, new Zealand, australia it's a very different reality and you don't get to see what's out there in the world. You think everyone operates like you do, but they don't. Iran is completely different. Macedonia, poland, these countries live under a different framework than what we do here in the West.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Yeah, I feel the same and I remember a little few things from Iran. But then I left the travel. I haven't been to Australia yet, but last winter I had the opportunity to go to Thailand for a while and then that's a whole other world, and then you get to see all of these things and it's really cool. It helps me have perspective, but also I, too, am really grateful that you're in Australia. I'm in Canada, but it helps me see, when we're talking about wellness, those barriers or all of those ways that we can reach the people from all corners of the world, especially since I'm really excited about it. So I'm happy that we shared that. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's switch to a totally different story. So before we get into the science, though, I have to ask, so just to tell our listeners, at some point you moved to Canada in your early 20s and you were training a tri-star gym in Montreal and, like most Canadians, obviously I'm a fan of GSB. So what was it like meeting him or everyone that you met? What was that experience like for you, getting here and meeting the people that you were also seeing online from the other side of the world?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Look, tri-star for me was amazing. It's funny. Actually, I messaged for us a couple of days ago for us to be the head coach of tri-star.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I first went to tri-star back in 2017. I spent some time in the dorms and then I came back to Australia and for us was he for the UFC and he was cornering Elias Theodorou, who sadly passed away last year, and we hosted a seminar or I hosted a seminar for him here and at that seminar, lots of people turned up, but one of the people was this girl who I kind of noticed and I started talking to and over the years we kept in touch and now we're getting married. Oh my God, I love that and I messaged for us. I was like I never thought in a million years that I would meet my future wife at your seminar. What is this? That's awesome Because I remember being 15 years old and watching the countdown episodes for George fighting Dan Hardy and Nick Diaz and seeing the tri-star emblem like the window and being like holy shit, I would love to be there one day.
Speaker 2:And then I was there and I'm like now I'm like friends with Forrest and I know George and I've been, I've hung out with. It's just crazy. It's a wild thing to think about. Like looking back to when I was 15, 16, I never would have thought, right, george. Honestly, george and Forrest lead from the top, like I remember finishing a two hour pro Jiu-Jitsu session and normally you'd finish something like that and be exhausted and then you see George doing backflips in the corner or Forrest is doing pull-ups or kettlebell swings and you're like, well, if they can do it, I for sure can do it, because George doesn't need to be doing this stuff, he's retired, he's already the goat. Why am I slacking off? So just being in that environment really pushed you to get better because everyone was better and that's one of the things I respect a lot about that gym and about those guys is one of the really friendly because they're Canadian. Two, forrest is like Forrest. Honestly, every single class was like a seminar. He is one of the most consistent people I've ever met. Like. He was there every single time morning class, afternoon class, night class, every day. Like he's just. He's just a beast.
Speaker 2:If you've never, if you love Jiu-Jitsu, even like if you're just a Jiu-Jitsu guy. I think Tristory is underrated. I think a lot of people think of it as MMA gym and it is. But even if you just want to develop your Jiu-Jitsu, your no-gee Jiu-Jitsu, that place I think is up there with with Atos and John Danner has. I think it's underrated. And if you don't, if you don't want to go to the US because you don't like the US, you want to be in Canada, go to Montreal. It's amazing. I love that.
Speaker 1:It's just, it's amazing.
Speaker 2:And then there was, like you know, Rory McDonald and Aiman Zahabi, who's just now making a name in the UFC, Frasers' younger brother, but he's one of the most skilled people I've ever trained with and he's showing it now in the UFC. But man, those guys are just amazing, really, really amazing people.
Speaker 1:I love to hear how much good you have to say about these people. Obviously there was such a personal connection and the fact that you met your well congrats like your future wife. That's what a story like a small world. Yeah yeah, I'm not a I'm not a jujitsu girl, I'm a Muay Thai girl. But yeah, all of it, though it's like the combat sport. I think we all drink a drink out of the same pond, like, so it's fantastic. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely you would have loved. You would have loved master Peter at tri-star. He passed away last year but master Peter was like the OG Muay Thai guy in Canada, one of the OG's, and he just had this energy about him. Like he was just this old Thai guy, a little bit fat, no filter. He would say whatever he wanted and like he's so well respected, so he's yeah, he's awesome. Like master Peter is one of the legend. Basically he's cool, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'll have to talk to my coaches. I'm sure that they have some stories Because I haven't been training at tri-star. But yeah, my coaches here fantastic. It's also like a tight knit community in general. Like we have sunshine coming next month to Toronto. My coaches are hosting an event where he's gonna be coming, so it's like such a wild little story.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I like he used to say something he no one knew how old master Peter was when he died, except for for us, like no one actually knew his age, and these to be like master, yeah, how old are you? And he's like never born, never die. Like no one needs to know how old I am. Like a never born, never die. He was just an old school he was. He was such a good man. So, yeah, there's some. I'm sure there's some cool stories about him in the in the community.
Speaker 1:As you're you're telling these stories, I wanted to get into the other part of it. As you're navigating, learning about all these people and training in that space, I know that you are also struggling simultaneously, while you were training, with some of your own health issues, so you were always sick. I know that you had stuff like a dozen times and had pretty aggressive psoriasis. So while you were training and like All the good training aside, what did you change that helped you improve your health while you're navigating all of this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, great question. So I grew up A sick kid, like when I was born in Europe, like formula had just come out. My parents didn't know any better, so I wasn't breastfed, I was formula fed, which or sets you up with. You know, paul got health from the beginning I'm in Europe. Every time you get sick you're given antibiotics, like it's very fast. So I took quite a lot of antibiotics as a child, which we know the research now says that can affect your gut for Decades to come if it's never corrected. I had my tonsils removed because I had tonsillitis. I had sinusitis.
Speaker 2:Growing up at fifteen I started to develop psoriasis when I was training a lot in cutting weight and fighting. That's when I started to get chronic stuff infections and chronic strep throat. So I'm always sick. I've always got stuff. I'll have a month of good training and then I'm out for a month and a month of good training and amount for months. So it really affected my health. I'm so at one point I mean I was still pushing through and I was competing and I wanted to make a fighting a professional career. But At one point I decided that it's not what I wanted to do, because the reason why I entered into jiu jitsu and martial arts because I thought it was Healthy. I was like this is healthy, like I want to live a healthy lifestyle. But there's a difference between exercise and professional sports and with professional sports there is a level where it's unhealthy right.
Speaker 2:You actually sacrificing your body. People don't realize that. So I was having those issues and I started to do I mean, the traditional Therapies didn't work. The antibiotics stop working. The doctors weren't really helpful.
Speaker 2:The gastroenterologist didn't do anything for my bs. So I started to look around and change my diet. So I did a DNA test. I realized that I had celiac genes. So the first thing I did was cut out gluten. Cutting out the gluten fixed my sinus issues and it fixed my psoriasis, but it didn't fix my gut. I still had IBS and chronic diarrhea. So the next test I did was a three days tool test that we run for patients now, and I figured out that I've got Candida, a few infections and I had already spent like thousands on probiotics that didn't do anything. And I literally treated my infection with a simple herb the eleven dollar herb from my herb of eight weeks, and it fixed my bs entirely.
Speaker 2:So you know, even like yesterday, I posted a case study about a young sixteen year old boy who had psychiatric issues and instead of going down the traditional psychiatric drugs, they did some functional medicine. They realize he has a helicobacter pylori infection which affects is b12 levels and so they treated that. They gave him extra b12, all the psychiatric symptoms went away. So functional medicine is really, I think, the key for many people who are struggling with many different things, everything from depression, anxiety, chronic fatigue. What are the right is we got multiple sclerosis patients. We got something as simple as like fatigue and something as complex as ms, and we can see improvements across all of them.
Speaker 2:You know, we had yesterday a lady from Canada patient who came to us with boils all over her skin, right shed for decades, and she was given all the steroid creams. All the drugs didn't work. We did some investigating, asking the right questions. We figured out her mommy silly act. Therefore she at least has half of those silly act jeans and so we cut gluten out from her diet. We haven't even got a test results back. Four weeks into treatment 90% of her boils are gone and she feels confident enough to go go to job interviews, she's getting dressed up, she's going back out into the world and from one simple dietary change.
Speaker 2:So it's it's really a targeted thing like if you do the investigating, get the right practitioner, you can fix this stuff. You don't have to live with forever, but you have to be willing to make the changes.
Speaker 1:That those are. You said a few bombs in there. One thing that before it leaves my brain you said investigating, asking the right questions, right, so it's like you have to be your own advocate. And so One thing I want to, I want to wear a pin in that and come back to it, because One thing that I know that we all know for autoimmune issues, for this patient you were referring to had some physical boils, but for other people they may. They don't have the physical right.
Speaker 1:A lot of it is people that I know you mentioned it even on your website for people that don't look sick, and so you're, you're sort of like you're. It's like you feel like you're a little bit insane because some of your symptoms are psychosomatic. Even it's like symptoms aren't showing or the conventional tests are like, oh, you're fine and you're like I don't feel fine. So, especially for autoimmune issues, when people are navigating them, and then it's like in conventional medicine, like the model that we have now Obviously I know I have a lot of MDs as clients and friends and like I know that the humans in it are in it to help people, but the system in itself is kind of Not allowing them to do all of that investigating that they want. They can't just send you for all of the tests. They still have all these policies and procedures.
Speaker 1:And so, to get to the question part, it's like, yeah, you mentioned a few already. You mentioned Rubitart arthritis, but there's grave psoriasis, lupus, celiac, thyroid, crohn's colitis, ibs and SEMA and a bunch of other ones that like they don't you don't look like you have anything wrong. So what are some of the common signs that you've noticed, maybe even in yourself, that you experienced or in your patients over the years, of like Other signs for people that don't look sick?
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, great question, because the reason why I said that is because I'm not sure.
Speaker 2:The reason why I said that was because I looked fit, like I was fighting, I was in shape, I had six pack everything, and so whenever I would go to the GP or the doctor they'd be like well, you're fine, you know you don't look sick, but on the inside clearly break. And a lot of people struggle with that look. It's almost easier to have physical symptoms because it makes you want to make the change. So when I had staff and when I had to see my leg, I was like okay, time to really make a change here. If you don't have that, it's almost a curse because over you just ignore it and you go.
Speaker 2:I can live with IBS and bloating. I can live with constipation and only having a bowel movement once per week. Or I can live with waking up tired every day or Waking up three times throughout the night. Like these are all symptoms that are dysfunctions that people normalize and just learn to live with. So, whether it's like constipation, diarrhea, chronic fatigue, waking up in the morning exhausted, not sleeping every night, acid reflux, nausea, pain, inflammation in the joints, brain fog, depression, anxiety, these are even depression. Anxiety, I believe, is a physical present. It's not a mental illness. There's no such thing it's. There's just health. There's no mental health and physical health. Physically unwell, you're mentally not going to be well and vice versa. You cannot separate the two. So I just don't believe in that thing. Like there's a lot of patients that come to us with depression and we look for chronic infections like cluster to difficile. We look for genetic deletions like the empty hfr gene. We look for nutrient deficiencies like B12, and we look to correct the fundamental basis of what your body actually needs.
Speaker 2:I was having this debate with someone on tiktok yesterday because they didn't agree with one of the videos I posted and they were a psychologist and I said look, the difference between psychology and what we do is ours is a hard science, yours is a subjective science. So for you to diagnose somebody, you have to ask them questions and do surveys. There are maybe MRIs and things like that that you can run, but for us it's as simple as a blood test and the blood test never lies. So if I have we're talking about vegan diets if I have 20 vegan patients, if I do a blood test for iron and B12 for all of them, almost always they're gonna be deficient and so I have to go. Vegan equals deficient, even if they're supplementing.
Speaker 2:So we can see the data like. It's very clear. I don't have to guess and a lot of the work is done, like people ask. Why is it so expensive to do functional medicine was because I know exactly what to ask. I know exactly what tests are run to stop you from having to guess and spend the next two years trying to figure it out on your own. And it's a very the human body is is more simple. It's complex, but it's more simple than we make it out to be. There are certain nutrients we need there are certain deficiencies we have and we're all.
Speaker 2:We're 99% the same. You know all of us.
Speaker 1:Is this true?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:One thing you just said that just it made me think for a second was I'm always like the title of this chat for us is Holistic Health for Combat Athletes.
Speaker 2:So when, I say Holistic Health.
Speaker 1:I say that because when I just say health, people immediately just go to physical health, and I'm a massive mental health advocate.
Speaker 1:But I fully agree with you and I say that because I'm trying to bring in the conversation of talking about all of them. To me, health is all like it's literally if I say the word health, I mean mental health, physical health, emotional health, like being a human being and so like, and they're all working together and I think in my opinion that's been. I think the barriers or the frustrations that a lot of people face is that obviously we can't be experts in every part of health, but it ended up being so segmented that we're kind of losing the plot, because then it's like you're not addressing your physical health if you're speaking to a mental health professional, but then if you're going to the doctors, they're not asking you about your fitness activities, and so there's all these like separate conversations, but it's like well, in order to look at you as a human being as a whole, all of it matters, like you can't, and then of course one thing is going to influence the other. So if you're looking at something holistically, it's like yeah, if I'm tired, there's four million reasons for that, like what are the contributors?
Speaker 1:Is it my environment? Is it my emotions? Is it my deficiencies? Is it an autoimmune? Is it an allergy? Is it cause whatever right? So?
Speaker 1:it's like that's the part that I. When you said that there's no such thing as mental health and it's all of them, I'm like huh, sure that's a controversial statement, but also true. I agree, because it's all of it. You can't separate it and like the less we look at the labels and like I am diagnosed with here's like all of the labels I'm diagnosed with, how can we just help this person feel better through whatever means? And then what can we test for? So at least we have some more of less throwing things and see what sticks.
Speaker 2:Let's just take like three common mental health diagnoses. One of them is, say, adhd. So ADHD has certain that we can't. We don't have a test, so to speak, to like confirm it, a physical test that we can run. But there are certain neurotransmitters that we look at. So one of them is PEA, phenyl ethyl amine, which we test, and if you're deficient in that neurotransmitter, you tend to be more, you tend to struggle more with ADHD and mood disorders. Now, the way to treat ADHD, but the medical standard, mainstream medicine, is to give people dopaminergic drugs, so Ritalin, adderol, right, these drugs work on the dopamine pathways. So then, isn't ADHD somewhat physical? Because we can actually test dopamine and PEA? And if we're fixing it by manipulating the physical aspect, like we're giving you more of a certain neurotransmitter, well then you must be physical. You can't be all mental, it's not all psychosomatic.
Speaker 1:No, no, that's really interesting, which brings okay follow up question. We're opening the can of worms for the whole nurture versus nature conversation, because then I would say being a millennial in this time of this moment is ADHD like I don't know, I'm not even that I'm going to move that label out of it, but let's say the attention of where we're all over the place. Is it because our environment, where we're constantly picking up our phone, is some of it like environment and behavior and habit based and then we're immediately like I have ADHD. Or is it because we're chronically developed that habit of picking up our phone every five seconds, like myself included? So maybe some of its genetics, epigenetics, some of its physical, but some of it is our own responsibility. Like I will take full admittance that I don't need to be on my phone on Instagram at midnight.
Speaker 1:Like that's not helping my anxiety or my sleep or my mental health.
Speaker 2:It's always a combination of things. It's never one thing that causes it. This is why. So it is always partly genetic. We all have these genetic predispositions, and I used to think ADHD was bullshit. But then I've actually met some people who I'm like oh, you definitely have ADHD. Like I'm having a conversation with you, I'm having a conversation with you, and you just go off and then come back and that's a certain way that their brain is wired.
Speaker 2:It's just not as linear as some other people. We can be used as a superpower. So it doesn't mean that it's a deficiency or something. It makes you lesser than it just means you have different strengths. And a lot of people like have you ever seen the gelt? You know what a geltan board is? I wish I had one here, but I was thinking to buy one on Amazon just to have as a prop.
Speaker 2:But a geltan board is the main right, the average of things, and we land all in different places. So many of us are average at most things. We're terrible at something and we're really exceptionally good at something else. And the problem with people why they struggle, I think in modern societies because we have a framework of what we think success is and so we try to judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, like we put people in the wrong position to succeed. So I think the secret really is is like finding what it is that you're exceptional at, like what are you gifted? What were you really good at as a child? You know what came naturally to you and focus on those strengths.
Speaker 2:Don't try to always correct your deficiencies. There are too many deficiencies for you to correct. Like this is like in fighting as well. Someone like a Khabib I wouldn't want to spend any time trying to make him the best boxer, I just want to get him to wrestle better, because that's he's so exceptionally good at it. Right, and so that's how you win in sport. That's how you win in life. You take your strength and you make it so strong that even if people know he's coming, they can't they can't do anything about it. So I think ADHD is like it's looked at as a deficiency, but those people have different strengths. Many people with ADHD are really good at creative work. I'm not. If you ask me to come up with a name, draw a logo, design a room, I couldn't give a fuck.
Speaker 2:I'll just do it like my brain doesn't work that way, but for them it comes naturally. So you've just it's not a deficiency, it's just a different way that your brain works.
Speaker 1:I love that you phrased it that way, because that's also like hold on, I'm going to try and verbalize my thoughts. So when we're talking about, like, autoimmune issues, right, someone's like, oh, I'm diagnosed with X. And then, like, everything is like there's something wrong with me, I need to be fixed. And then my perspective on wellness, of fitness, is like, well, it's not that there's something wrong with you and you need to be fixed. It's more that we need to address something to support you to be your best self. So it's like I think that's part of my my personal, I guess argument against the whole of the wellness and fitness industry that they sort of like people are like I, you're broken, let me fix you with this. And I'm like, well, no, because, like, maybe they're not broken, but they're like.
Speaker 1:You mentioned that the fixation is on something and so now you put all of your focus, all of your energy on something. It's obviously going to take away. Like, if you are funk, if you can't even get through a day because you've had so much diarrhea that you can't function, like, how on earth are you going to be able to focus and be able to train and be able to do the things you're gifted at because it's just, you're constantly just not well, but it doesn't mean you're broken. It's just like you're not, you're not well and we just have to do something and find the right approach or solution. So, um, yeah, it's just, I get really. I guess it's like a personal trigger where someone's like I've got to fix this. I'm like, well, what was broken? It's just trying to address it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a, it's a good way, so die a diagnosis.
Speaker 2:I don't like diagnosis, for the most part because people tend to take them on as personal identity and the fact is, like everyone fits on a spectrum of symptoms. Nobody fits in one box. There's different systems in the body. There's digestion, your endocrine system, your skin, your immune system, and you might have different symptoms than somebody else. So if you have hashi motos, it doesn't mean that there's. You have to take that on as an identity and make it less than like if you own a Porsche or a Lamborghini or a Ferrari and something goes wrong with one of the wheels, do you just say that entire car is now bad, Right, Like it's the same thing. It's like no, let's just, let's just fix that thing and then get you and don't take it on as a personal identity. Like don't bring it on and say I am an order. I don't. I never say I'm an autoimmune patient. Why would I want to say that? I just have an immune system that has pros and cons and I need to just maybe be a little bit more careful with my diet and manage my time, but I've also got a lot of good things about me. So it's people.
Speaker 2:Medicine likes to give people a diagnosis and an identity and a lot of people this is going to be controversial, but a lot of people like that. They want to identify with it. Not everyone wants it fixed. I know it sounds like people are going to hear it and go, but the fact is a lot of people don't. And there's a thing in psychology and I just there's an email going out of my email list today about secondary gain and the idea of like, if there are, you know, there's your primary gain but there's a secondary gain to illness. So if you have a chronic disease, maybe it gets you a little bit more attention from your partner. Maybe you're not expected to do as many household chores, Maybe you don't have to work full time you can work three days a week and there's all these little benefits that you start to accumulate and you're like, oh, this isn't so bad and if you get better, you have to give up those benefits.
Speaker 2:Like, I've spoken to thousands of people now over the years and some of them keep telling me that they want to get better. They want to get better, they want to get one. I have one patient we've had three years of contact and I had to have a conversation and say look, you don't actually want this as much as you think you do, Because if you did, you would have done it by now. So there is something preventing you, because it's really not that easy. You don't need more information to lose weight, you just need to get on the fucking elliptical for 30 minutes a day and stop making up reasons and excuses. You actually don't want it and that's okay. But don't live in cognitive dissonance where you're like I want this, but I don't want to do the work. That's not good for you. Just decide one way or the other and be at peace with that decision.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think it's controversial. I think that makes sense because even in my intake with my clients, you have a portion where there is a readiness portion Like cool, you can want something, but are you willing to take action for it. And it's also like, if we're talking about, let's say, spore I'm going to come back to that in a second but the thought that just entered my head is, if you're talking about fighting a fight camp, like people come in like I want to do this, but you, you, cool, it might seem awesome and like we're inspired by it, but to actually execute and go through a fight camp and step into that ring or step, that's a whole other world and so for. And then the part that makes me I really agree with the information part and these conversations and all the ways that I want to approach coaching is, at this point, I fully believe that a lot of my, the people that I see, are intelligent and they're capable and they can do research and there's enough information in our fingertips.
Speaker 1:The biggest issue is, like, the implementation and it's like the less is more, and so that's sort of what I try to approach. I'm like we don't. I personally I'm not a clinical nutritionist, I can't be, but I'm. But if you're the simple basics most of us aren't doing, if we're not doing those, then like going to the next stage to address, like not eating gluten, for example, as a whole it's such a giant step because we haven't even talked about like, hey, how's your sleep, how's your stress management?
Speaker 1:Are you aware of your food intake? Like, are you aware of things? So I think you have to want it and I think this is where the the whole holistic part of the other practitioners being very helpful, because then in psychology you have someone that can be like oh, maybe you went through some trauma and you you associated this identity and now you're. Whatever happened to you when you were five, and because you were sick, you got the attention from whoever, and now you've took that on as an identity. Let's navigate this, do that work?
Speaker 1:So then, when you get to the clinical setting, it's a cool, yeah, I'm ready, I address that part and now I can implement X, y, z, what testing do we need? And then that's where I realized immediately I'm like cool, that's out of my scope, I can't be your therapist and the clinician and this. So then I just sort of send people out to other people that have the tools, because I can't implement it for you and you can want it as much as you wanted, but unless you're willing to get, like, take those very uncomfortable actions and conversations, wanting them and achieving them are different things.
Speaker 2:Correct. Yeah, this is why you have a multi-discipline approach you have. You know, just like athletes have multiple coaches in different fields and a care team and all of that, humans are the same. We can't go to one person and get everything from them.
Speaker 2:And you know, we stay very much in our lane, like I. There is a. There is an element of therapy that we do, like acceptance, commitment therapy, therapy but not to the level where I can consider myself a clinical psychologist because I don't have that form of education. But there is some aspect of that to get people to implement things. But for the most part we specialize in the biochemistry of things. Like, we get the testing, we figure it out, we put all the supplements together and then we just tell you what to do.
Speaker 2:You don't need to understand it, you just need to do it, yeah, and but you know, sometimes there are cases where I say, hey, you know you need to go also see it there, because he's an example we have. There's nothing, there's no amount of supplements or dietary changes or health hacks or tests that will fix a especially a relationship or a marriage or a life that's just not in harmony. Like if you have a chaos and you've got chronic stress and there's, you know, whatever, police at your door or or whatever it is, or lawyers or divorces, and it's just we might move the needle a little bit, but unless you get that fixed, there's not much anyone can really do.
Speaker 1:So that is huge, huge. And you just like opened up the conversation about stress, which is what I was about to ask. So right, that environment and like managing our stress, and like it's not a bad thing. When I say stress, I think the listeners and anyone that follows my stuff knows that everything's a stressor.
Speaker 1:Exercise is a stressor, like waking up as a stressor but, it's the it's it's right, is the chronic stress versus like what's good for us and pulling it back to okay? This is a two per question, so I want to bring it back to the combat athletes in a second, but let's talk about the importance of slap the stress management and sleep first on immunity and then I'm going to ask part two. So part one how does stress impact immunity? That's my first question.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, without getting too much into the biochemistry, let's just think about it as like a priority thing. So your brain is has really three main tasks, or the three F's that we call them, and it's feed, fight and fornicate. Right, this is what you are biologically designed to do. So if you are stressed and you're in this fight state, right, and you're like, the brain just goes the priority is survival. And so he says okay, I'm highly stressed, I have to figure out a way to get from today to tomorrow. If I have to sacrifice a liver or a cold or a flu or whatever, it doesn't matter, I just have to survive. I don't have to thrive, I just have to make it to tomorrow. And so your brain prioritizes survival over everything. And so if you put yourself like, for example, women who lose their period right, this often happens with women who are athletes, women who own strict diets, or they may have an eating disorder and they have hypothalamic amenorrhea and they lose their period. And that happens because the brain goes well, I don't have enough resources to survive, so I cannot prioritize making a baby. Therefore, I'm just going to turn that system off.
Speaker 2:And so if you're always stressed, your immunity is not so important anymore. Right, you're kind of like, well, I just have to survive, it doesn't really matter if I have a bit of a flu. It suppresses your immune system. Essentially, you end up hypoimmune and then you're more susceptible to infections, and specifically chronic infections, because when you're sick and you have a fever that's a good thing. That means your immune system was able to mount a response and fight the pathogen. If you're never sick, there's a lot of people that come to us and say I never get sick. I'm like, well, that's bad, because I bet you will find a whole bunch of chronic viral infections or bacterial infections that you've just never been able to mount a response against.
Speaker 2:Because you're chronically stressed, you don't have enough immune cells, you're deficient and you can't. You know, if we look at your blood work, you'll be low in neutrophils. None of your immune cells will be there, because you just are killing your immune system. You're always stressed and stress comes in different forms, like there's physical, mental, psychological, emotional. I think the worst type of stress from my experience is always emotional stress. People can deal with physical, people can deal with work stuff and things that have a clear solution, but they can't. It's prolonged emotional stress that people struggle with, or that I've struggled with the most. It's like I just don't know how to figure this out. So that's why I think emotional well-being and therapy and those things are really, really important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I haven't personally been able to make it through the book yet. I find it really triggering, but, like the, the concept of the, oh, I just just left my brain, the body.
Speaker 1:What it keeps the school title of the book, that the yeah, thank you, the body gives the score, and then where it's like, yeah, all of the trauma on this just goes somewhere, right, if you're talking about holistic health and you're looking at it from the spiritual side, if that's when you want to call it, that's, that's the, the other part that sometimes we forget, like perhaps all the blood tests and the physical and any practice You've seen, and then you have the other side, that there is emotional, that maybe you haven't.
Speaker 1:Even. My therapist always tells me that I rationalize really well, I have a good ability to, I Can. I may not necessarily feel like I feel a lot, but I haven't like internalized certain things that I can think my way through, and so it's like but your body can't necessarily, just because I'm rationalizing something I've been through doesn't mean that my body is like Doing that. It's also feeling the stress, but it's manifesting in a different way for me personally. So that's that's really, really interesting. So that's for everyone, right, because human beings Navigate stress and earlier in our in our conversation, we were talking about where we're from and how that will look very different and like depending on your environment.
Speaker 1:If you're in that, you know wherever you are in the world. Bringing it to the sports side and looking at combat sports or just yeah, so combat sports specifically because they're quite vigorous, but just maybe all active sports that we were talking about, how there's a big difference for performance. So how do you navigate stress when you have such vigorous training and demands and pressures like things like fight training?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this is a good question because I, if I knew what I know now, I would have trained very differently when I was younger.
Speaker 2:And Okay, let's say you're let's say you're a professional or even an amateur athlete and you have Competitions like this let's put into the framework of somebody who's competing and they have three tournaments per year or three fights per year, whatever it is. And how I would structure that now would be kind of like an on season and an off season, which is what most professional athletes do, except for fighters, right, like soccer players, football players, nrl, nfl, nba they all have an off season and on season, except for fighters. Fighters just kill themselves all year round. Kill themselves all year round, right? Yeah, so I would break up the year and time frames into skill development and then getting ready for a competition, which are two different things. So when you're when you don't have a tournament or a fight coming up in that time it's all about spending as much time as possible in the gym developing skill, but not necessarily killing yourself with intensity, right, so you don't have to do five, five minute rounds of sparring. You just have to develop skill, learn how to punch better, learn how to kick better, learn how to counter better, learn how to learn a new skill, add a new tool, add a reverse kick to your Arsenal.
Speaker 2:Whatever it is right, that's the time to do it when, as the closer you get to the fight or the closer you get to the tournament, that's when you Don't have the luxury of learning a new skill now.
Speaker 2:Now you have to sharpen everything. So that's when it's like, okay, don't worry about being in the gym all day, spend time with your family, do things like get you away from the gym but then come in at 12 o'clock and be ready for five, five minute rounds of sparring, which is 25 minutes of work, five minutes, 30 minutes in total. Right, get that done, do it as well as possible and then spend the rest of the day on recovery, which might mean like making sure you eat a good diet, making sure you do some weight training or some stretching or some mobility, and come back tomorrow and let's do something else. Let's do five, five minute rounds of wrestling, you know. So. Let's do some sprints, let's go swimming. So that's where you do the shorter, more intense training to really build things up. Now, on the recovery side, nutrition plays a huge role. A lot, of, a lot of fighters have terrible diets.
Speaker 2:Absolutely the same things that apply for for overall health don't always apply for fighters, like fasting, for example. I don't necessarily. I don't George is a huge advocate of it. But if you don't have an autoimmune condition, if you can eat, eat right like I would recommend having if you're a fighter, like breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, making sure that you get enough fuel in Supplement, a huge vitamin D, zinc, probiotics, b12, electrolytes Huge if something as simple as an electrolyte supplement will make a massive difference here. Recovery and sleeping you know, I remember speaking to Rory Mcdonald when he was like if I do two sessions a day, I need like 10 hours of sleep or I can't perform the next day, so making sure that you sleep. And I remember Khabib in an interview was funny. He's like all these guys do all these recovery things because I just sleep More, like I'll take a nap in between sessions, which is recovery, 100% the best recovery like yeah you could go cry therapy, you could do like all the just sleep dude, just get more sleep.
Speaker 2:That's when your brain is able to recover. Also, that's when your brain is able to actually imprint the skills that you learned into memory. Right, that's when you actually develop a lot of things that you're learning. You physically recover, you mentally recover and you're ready for the next session or the next day. So keep it simple, but it it's. It sounds easy, but it's. It's not right, it's, it's. It takes a lot of consistency. So I would. I would do my training a little bit different if I was to go back.
Speaker 1:I Love that. You said that and I mean you're seeing me on video right now. So obviously I was trying not to nod at every single thing you're saying, but for the listeners my head is, just like now, sore for me, nodding at everything you might go with, just saying Because the I mean my background before I got into Muay Thai is rugby right. So I did like club, then our city, and then was in that world for 20 years and so I absolutely understand the concept of like the offseason, on season and I have some clients that have helped in football and like different sports and then it's the nature of the. I mean obviously I'm in it because absolutely love it. But yeah, there's this like 24 seven extremists that comes with like how much, how hard can I go as a fighter, that like it's just this 24 seven thing.
Speaker 1:Well, one thing that you said that I love that. I just want us to pause for a second because I mean you're telling me and I fully agree, I'm just nodding, but just we're gonna reiterate it again for the listeners the basic stuff of the nutrition and I have noticed just over the years of it's like one of those afterthought questions. It's like you're trying to kill yourself in the gym. Then it's five week. You're like, oh yeah, what should I do for my fight weight more my weight cut. And then you're like, are you aware of your intake? Like, how has your food been? Like, how have you been managing all of these?
Speaker 1:things and it's like Darp, like there there is. It's all an afterthought versus what you just said was hey, prioritize recovery, manage the intensity, look at your nutrition, sleep right. So you have you experienced, because I know you also did and maybe do you I don't know if you still do, but I know that you did Wait cuts for a bunch of fighters previously. Like, did you, did you ever see that maybe like they weren't doing, like they were trying to do extreme things a week off because maybe they weren't fully making it as consistent? Or like what were some of the observations that you had?
Speaker 2:having also gone through this, yeah, look, it's hard, like I see it from. Like yes, every fighter should be doing that, but some of them don't have the luxury. Like some of them are young guys, 20 years old. They don't have much money. You know, they're living in the dorms, they're buying rice and tuna and just making it work. So it's like for the guys that have the luxury of being able to hire a nutritionist and a chef, it's a lot easier. But you know, if you're training two, three times a day, the last thing you want to do is food prep, a bunch of meals. So it isn't easy.
Speaker 2:But as long as you can learn like the fundamentals, if you can learn like the fundamentals of nutrition, you don't have to do much. Like you don't have to work very hard. Like a lot of the guys, it's like as simple as wake up in the morning, like, put those microwave oats in the microwave and like have a protein shake and some fruit, go do your first session. Come back, have some rice and tuna and some electrolytes, have a nap. Wake up, have a snack, go do your second session. So like the simple things around nutrition that doesn't have to be expensive and doesn't have to be difficult. But it's hard for them because you know the 20 year old guys with not much money so they can't really figure it out on their own. So they do the thing where they eat as best as they can and then wake cut comes, and then they just stop eating and that's how they cut their weight, but until they get to a level where they can hire somebody to help them.
Speaker 1:So it's not easy, I mean absolutely no, no, no, and I fully, and I mean I haven't even told you this part and so it's going to sound like a little plug, but so what I've been working on is specifically to that, because of the things we were talking about earlier the barriers to wellness so I have a launching, meant by the time this comes out, it's already launched an online portal called level up, which is two parts. It's mindset, featuring mind lock for combat athletes, and part two is actually called nutrition fundamentals, and I created it and the six steps and the whole point of it is to be really accessible, super affordable, and it's supposed to fill in the gap for exactly the audience you were just talking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah let's have this information at a way that you can implement where maybe I'm out of reach, you're out of reach and someone needs it, especially the youth, where I have a lot of privileges. But it was, even if it's challenging, for me to get some of this information and I'm like surrounded by privilege. So that was really, really important to me, because I find this entire conversation, like coaching and a lot of things in fitness, really inaccessible and when it gets to the fight world especially. I don't know the structure in Australia, but in Canada we have a slightly different structure for fitness and wellness. In the first place, like you, were part of it for a couple years.
Speaker 1:But like we have a pay to play structure where, like all of sports, even in rugby, there is no money I was volunteer coach a bunch of years like you're paying to play and there's kids that don't even have an opportunity to do if it's joining any team they have to. We have to raise money so they can even try out for something and it's a try out. And there's professional athletes that are doing GoFundMe to go represent. I have a friend that I went to high school with who did a GoFundMe round and she currently holds the Canadian record and been to the Olympics twice.
Speaker 1:So it's so many different levels of privilege and I fully agree and it's just yeah. So on that one topic doing the best you can. And then on the topic of the people that are privileged but are maybe like underestimating the importance of nutrition, I think is where I was going with that, because I fully, fully support that part and like absolutely, let's make it accessible and simple. And also for those people that are not thinking about it and just trying to ask me, like two days before, like what's the best diet, it's like we should have had this conversation a few months ago.
Speaker 2:If you're like, you should be looking at your nutrition eight weeks out from the fight at least at a minimum. Like starting to build a baseline and working with someone. Like if you can afford it, you should be doing that. There is something I want to say, though like if there wasn't a weight, because weight cuts can make a really great fight or really shit. If a weight cut goes wrong, even if they're more skilled, they will lose the fight because they just can't perform Right. So, weight cuts aside, let's say there wasn't a weight cut.
Speaker 2:I don't think nutrition plays that big of a role on who's going to win on the night. I know that's controversial to say, but there are some people out there that are so talented that they could eat whatever they want and they will turn up on fight night and they just have better skills. I genuinely think the more skilled fighter on the night will win every time, whether they've eaten worse or that. You know it's just how it is. Like John Jones or George, st Pierre or Jose are that these guys will win because they're just more skilled, right, yeah, yeah, I don't think nutrition will be the differentiator.
Speaker 2:But because you're cutting weight, you can't if you'd have a poor weight cut and you don't manage a nutrition. Well, you can have all the skills, but you don't have the horsepower to bring those skills out. And so then he plays a massive role and so he's becoming more and more important because there are still weight cuts. If weight cuts didn't exist, it wouldn't be as important. People would be able to get away with having, you know, a bit shit in nutrition and winning fights like a fader or a million anchor. The guy's pudgy. He's always been fat, but one of the greatest heavyweights of all time, so he plays a big role with the weight cuts?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and then the performance may be fine because they have the skill, but then it's going to go full circle back to what you don't know. You don't know and one of the things you mentioned about that people that are going I never get sick, I eat what I want, I'm fine, but now you have no idea that these exact same people that you just named, like or someone else in their position, maybe they're walking around with a whole bunch of autoimmune or bacterial or fungal infections that they're not even aware of.
Speaker 2:Well, george St Pierre was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis, and that happened when he fought Michael Bisping and he had to move up a weight division. So he's probably eating a lot more bad food than he was aware and he kind of caused that flare up. So the predisposition, the genetics were already there, the stress of the fights, the poor diet that all the things factored in perfect storm for a diagnosis.
Speaker 1:I'm assuming he had to do like a massive caloric surplus to go up a weight class. He was probably just eating a lot and in order to hit the caloric requirements he was like, cool, there's only so much protein and fiber you can eat and then was just kind of throwing. I don't know, I have no idea about that, but I'm assuming because that's usually the case, right, I remember bodybuilding was to call it a dirty bulk, but I don't know if that's still a thing, but you're just trying to get your calories.
Speaker 2:If you look at a photo of George or a video of when he fought Bisping and a photo of him now without a shirt on, it's like a different human. He was like bloated, big, heavy. I think he looked quite slow, even though he was just heavier. Now his lean fit, looks like 20 years younger than what he did when he fought Bisping. So again, my point is like it's not always healthy Sports, aren't always healthy Sacrifice.
Speaker 1:I think that's a really important point. It is. And then when you're looking at, that's what you're seeing and maybe if you're trying to emulate that and you're trying to be like, oh, I'm going to eat like this athlete and going to train like them, it's like they're doing other things that you may not be doing and it's not the best Like, do what works for you, keep it simple, put in the time, but yeah, no, I love that point and I agree with you. So I have a couple other questions of pulling it back and we've touched on it a little bit. You've already mentioned some of it, but I want to just share with the listeners exactly how it works at Humanly Wellness. So I know you do some testing, but what's the whole process like if someone wants to work?
Speaker 2:with you. Yeah, yeah, great question. So normally what we do is there's an application process. So if they go to the humanlywellnesscom website, you go through an application and then we give you a call or we set up a time to speak and we want, before we ever take a dollar from you, before you ever sign up for anything, we spend about anywhere between 30 minutes to an hour and a half on a free appointment and we just get a really a medical history. We ask people, you know, many different questions.
Speaker 2:I normally do it. I still prefer to. We still have we have two other people, but I prefer to do most of it. I get a history, I get an idea of the person, I get what they're looking for, we get an idea of budget, we get an idea of where they're at in their life and what we can actually do, and then we package something for them and that package can be anywhere between three to six months and it includes supplements, it includes testing, it includes a number of appointments and we have 50 different tests we could run. So we select, hand select the ones that are most appropriate. So, essentially, like I don't want them to do something that they've already done and hasn't worked. I want to create something that makes the most sense.
Speaker 2:Not everyone is a good fit, not everyone is prepared to make the changes, not everyone is at that stage in their process, not everyone can afford it because it's not cheap. You know, like people, often people often ask about the price and I'm like look, it's three to six months of treatment for us to get you a result. If you're looking for something cheap, there's other things I could recommend. But this is for people that are essentially sick and tired of being sick and tired, and it makes more sense to them to do six months of treatment and pay for it than to not do it because they've already struggled. Like I've got a guy that I spoke to this morning owns a significantly large business, and he was just like man, I just I just need to fix, otherwise I can't work and I'm going to lose money, and let's just do it. And then we have a lady from the US who is on disability and she's like well, I used to have a pretty good career and now I can't work and the last colonoscopy I did cost me 2000. And so let's just do it. It was like great, let's do it. So for most people once they go through the process, it's a no brainer.
Speaker 2:Now, we don't sign up people we don't know. I don't like to sign up anyone I haven't had a contact with, because we get to know you, we work with you for a period of time, you become part of the family and genuinely like you know, there's a lot of sales training out there and I've been a part of that in the past for other companies and there's no manipulating, there's no pushing Like if it makes sense for you and for us, do it. If it doesn't make sense, find something else. You know it's, it's whatever. Whatever suits you, like we've got enough people coming through that we don't need to push them. But ultimately it's just. I think most people, if you give them enough information, they'll make the right decision, and so my goal is just to give them enough information that makes sense. So that's, that's the process.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. That's awesome and I love that. You said that and I have a similar approach. It's like, let's just be honest, you don't need to like, this is what I can offer. This is what realistic timeframe is. This is an investment for you and, like, you got, you got to invest in something and then you can either pick the dollars and the time and then if it makes sense for you, then great. If not, then that's okay and here's some other resources. That's cool. So I'm going to definitely share the website and all the contact information in the show notes. I have a follow up for you mentioned the colonoscopy and the cost in the States. So is there insurance coverage? And or like, cause you're? You're based in Australia, but like, how does it work when it's working international between, let's say, canada or US? Like, technically, clinical nutrition and dietitians are covered under some people's insurances, or I don't know Sometimes.
Speaker 2:So it doesn't make any difference to our treatment. We have labs in the US and Canada that we can use. Like we, most of our patients are actually US and Canada based. Unfortunately, functional medicine, the world of functional medicine, is not covered here in Australia by Medicare in Canada or in the US. It's just as simple as, or even if it is, it's a very small amount. It's as simple as we are not prescribing pharmaceutical drugs.
Speaker 2:There's not really a you know the insurance companies conspiracy theory, but I think a lot of the insurance companies are in bed with the pharmaceutical companies and it's just a big money making scheme. And so if you end up in that web, you kind of tend to stay in there, and I've had people that are on 12 different pharmaceutical drugs and I'm like, well, I don't know what's what anymore. I don't know what's working. Neither do you. So my goal is to keep you out of that world, like I don't want you. I mean, if I could, I would opt out of paying my Medicare taxes because I don't use it. You know, I genuinely haven't been to a doctor in years.
Speaker 2:There's no need for me to pay $8,000 a year on a Medicare levy when I don't use it. So I want to keep you out of the insurance world. I want to keep you out of the pharmaceutical world. It's I don't want to ask them for anything. This should be a you thing. Your your autonomous. Make your own decision, don't have to ask them for and, to be honest, the people who pay on their own are always more invested to make the changes. It's just how it works.
Speaker 1:No, that part, that absolutely no, that makes sense. I mean, I don't disagree with you with the structure of things. I was also thinking about it, for that's a frustrating aspect. It goes back to that privilege thing. Hence all of the stuff I'm doing, because I have an army of people around me, like I mentioned. I have MDs, NDs, various practitioners, and it's like even in Canada I had a frustration several times where, as someone that lives in Canada, I literally messaged one of my someone in my own phone to be like hey, what is this? Because I didn't have and I have the privilege and the time luxury to go to different clinics and it's just that the end of it you don't get some of the support and then it's really frustrating because of people that needed the most, or usually ones falling through the cracks.
Speaker 2:Like there are a lot of people out there who are not privileged, but also, like I speak to many of them and sometimes it's an accumulation of just poor choices and not prioritizing the right thing. Like there are people that will pay for. Like there's a line outside of Louis Vuitton in Sydney every single day. Every single day, people are buying designer goods and I'm like these are sometimes the same people I speak to. I'll speak to people who have a Cartier bracelet on but won't invest $3,000 in a test or you know, in a treatment program, whatever it is. And I'm like you know you're not part of the underprivileged. You're choosing. You're telling yourself that you are, but in fact, there's just a priority problem and humans are really interesting. Like we'll become resourceful for the things that we really want and for the really underprivileged, all the information is free. Like we have a Facebook group and email list. Everything we do we give away for free. So if you really want to, you can. If you don't have the money and you have the time, go in the Facebook group, watch every video in the guide section, implement it and you'll get better.
Speaker 2:I love when people message me that I've never worked with me and they're like, hey, I've done what you said. And they do a call with me. They don't buy the program and that's fine, but they come back a year later they go I've done what you said and here are my results. I'm like, dude, that's awesome. That's amazing, like good for you, you know. So it's there's. You can you, whether it's if you don't have the money, but you have the time you can, you can do it. You really can, like it's not as difficult as you think. You just have to, you know, apply yourself. Really, that's really what it's all about.
Speaker 1:It's the application at the end of the day, right, and so, yeah, I agree with you, we can. It's that tenacity and taking action, and obviously all of this is general statements, because not everything we said applies to every single human and we have to make some statements so someone listen, is going to be like what?
Speaker 1:But like overall, that's a common theme. And then I always say, like the people that I've chosen to work with me, like I absolutely love my clients but they like. And then so sometimes when I'm saying things, it's like in a little bubble silo, because they, they took initiative and I, I appreciate them so much and I learned from them just as much as they may learn from me. And so.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it Cool. So we're we're dropping a lot of wisdom and so, to wrap it up, is there any words of wisdom? Like one thing, you want to do a little elevator pitch to leave with our listeners, for one thing to take away from all of our rants and conversations.
Speaker 2:I wrote a really cool quote like a couple of weeks ago from CS Lewis. He's a guy that wrote a book called me Christianity. If you haven't read it, if you your spiritual, I recommend reading it. But there was a quotes where he said it is wonderful what we can do when we have to. So it's sometimes when you get to a certain point where your back's against the wall and you're like I just have to do this, you realize truly how capable you are, whether that's like healing, whether it's income, whatever it is like. If you have to do something, often you'll find a way. So I'm believing yourself. I guess that's kind of where it comes.
Speaker 1:It's a bit corny but it's true, I love the corn, though I'm all about the dad jokes and the cheese, but that was not corny.
Speaker 1:That was a very powerful mic drop moment because it goes to the resiliency and the capability and there's an abundant amount of information and things out there and people like yourself and myself that are passionate about our craft, that want to help and are connecting and having these conversations voluntarily, and so, to anyone listening, if you made it this far, thank you for joining us and I hope there are golden nuggets and that please follow Marco and if you have any comments, and if you want to, you know, comment on the rants we made and then, with your own comments, have at it. It's a discussion, we're human beings, and so you're welcome to contact myself and Marco. Everything will be in the show notes and again, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time and I really appreciate this discussion and, yeah, it was a really good one, and I have I'm going to go process this because I have said that we said that I'm going to go think about too, so I love it.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate it. Thank you, thanks for having me. Thanks, guys.
Speaker 1:Thank you Bye.
