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A Slice of Humble Pie with P2
🥧 A podcast where we curiously explore nutrition, fitness, mindset, sports, wellness, & beyond. ☕️Host @parastoobadie
A Slice of Humble Pie with P2
Shattering Self-Limiting Beliefs for Athletic Endeavors
Have you ever questioned how your mindset and self-limiting beliefs impact your fitness journey? Join us for an engaging conversation with my mentor and friend, Etienne Asselin, as we take a reflective trip down memory lane, exploring our fitness evolution over the past two years. We delve into Etienne's inspiring journey of overcoming his self-limiting belief that he couldn't run and his decision to sign up for a marathon in Italy, and how it has reshaped his perception of fitness, courage, and determination.
Throughout this episode, we also explore the profound influence of mentorship, intertwining our personal and professional growth. We share how creative teaching methods can simplify complex fitness mechanics and help us understand the interconnectedness of our body better. Most importantly, we discuss the pitfalls of trying to "fix" imbalances and how misconceptions can hinder overall progress. You'll hear us question and challenge conventional beliefs surrounding imbalances and their impact on performance.
To wrap up, we dive into the significance of nuanced communication, the role of curiosity in continuous refinement, and the importance of maintaining integrity in our actions. We reflect on how choosing heart over mind can influence our mindset and decision-making process on our fitness journey and in life overall. So come along and be a part of this passionate discussion as we redefine fitness and challenge the status quo together.
To connect with Etienne:
https://www.instagram.com/easselin_official/
The Exercise Mechanic:
https://www.theexercisemechanic.com/
Website: https://parastoobadie.com/podcast/
Email: asliceofhumblepiewithp2@gmail.com
Instagram: @asliceofhumblepiewithp2
Welcome back to a slice of humble pie. I'm your host, e2. I'm a nutrition and fitness professional, a curious human on planet earth and a lover of pie. In this episode, I'm chatting with one of my favorite humans, my friend and mentor, etienne Eslée. Etienne was actually my very first guest on this podcast episode two Exercise More Than Mechanics. This time we're reflecting back on the past two years, looking at the evolution of fitness personally, professionally, in both of our lives, and also discussing exercise mechanics, goal setting, philosophy, mindset and everything in between. Since we recorded this episode, etienne has actually moved to Geneva, switzerland, which is boss. I am positive that in a future episode that will record, maybe we'll chat from there, because you know I love me my Switzerland. I am so excited for Etienne and his big moves. This was a really fun conversation and I hope it gives you something to think about as well. Let's get right into it. Perfect way to start. Welcome back to a slice of humble pie. I am so excited to have you, etienne. How are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm doing really good. Man, I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1:I'm really excited. Yeah, we're both really hyper, so we're going to have a really good chat. It's the coffee, it's the coffee. So our very first chat was actually my first ever podcast episode, which I believe we recorded two years ago, and it was episode number two Go check it out if you haven't yet and it was titled Exercise More Than Mechanics. So today I would love to chat a little bit more about mechanics and the exercise mechanics.
Speaker 1:Before we do, though, a lot's happened. A lot's happened in the past two years, so there's a couple things that we said. I'm just pulling on my notes to remember. There's one thing that we said in that last episode. You said, actually, and you said, fitness is a tool which helps you get to do things, and then it's a means to an end, so that you can do things that are meaningful to you. I'm paraphrasing. And then you know we're sharing all these different stories and I know that you have done some new fitness things that have new meaning to you, so we can kind of share, like some of those, like where that's evolved in the past two years. And then, yeah, I want to hear.
Speaker 2:Sure yeah. So I guess the thing that you're alluding to, I think, is probably the marathon, so November of last year. So what is it 11 months ago?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I had this.
Speaker 2:I just had this kind of feeling that I kind of needed to kind of call myself out on my bullshit a little bit.
Speaker 2:What I mean by that was that, like I've always told myself this story that I bought into, which was that, like I'm not a runner and I can't run and I've always kind of hated it, and because I hated it I never did it, and because I never did it, it was bad at it and therefore I always sucked at it.
Speaker 2:So it was kind of like I would see other people doing these like ultra endurance things and I was like I don't think that I can do that and that is probably not true. So let's challenge it, let's see what happens, right. So I signed up November of last year, I signed up for a marathon in November of this year in Verona, Italy, just kind of like Northern Italy, between Milan and Venice. And you know, a few days later, after I kind of processed the freak out, I signed up for a coach with a coach excuse me named Liam Walk, who's incredible, and I just committed to the process and through that process I discovered a love of something that I previously hated, and it's been an incredible journey so far, Absolutely incredible.
Speaker 1:I love that the whole thing Because, yeah you, I remember you telling me about this. You never had any racing experience ever.
Speaker 2:Zero. Like, I used to play competitive basketball Right, and I was really good at, like, ball handling and shooting, but in the game I was horrible, and the reason why I was horrible was that I had no aerobic capacity Right. Like when I was fresh, I would be able to compete with the, you know, the best kids in my age group, but the moment that the game started I would just crash in terms of fatigue and I just couldn't keep up. So, like, my aerobic capacity has always been my Achilles heel in sports, always Interesting.
Speaker 1:So then, after that you did like climbing right. So, like the other sports, let's talk about them a bit. What other sports did you do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did like largely, largely power sports Like. Even like when I played soccer, I was either striker or stopper, right, so the two ends of the field where you're just kind of walking or standing around and then you sprint. So I was good at that and but yeah, so then, like after basketball and soccer, it was rock climbing, powerlifting, recreational, not bodybuilding, but just kind of like just strength training and stuff like that. But yeah, even rock climbing would be like the other sport that I really got into for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Is there something that brought on this random goal of doing a marathon in Italy? Like I love that you said challenge it, but like why was it that you were trying to challenge yourself? And then you were like let me use this as a vehicle of trying to get there. Yeah or okay cool.
Speaker 2:There's a variety of people, it was more so. Just that I noticed. I think I just had a moment of clarity. And is it, you know, surrounded by a whole bunch of people online, whether it be like you know, the quintessential one is Goggins.
Speaker 1:He's just a maniac.
Speaker 2:But there's a whole bunch. There's a whole bunch of other people.
Speaker 1:You don't know me son.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't know me, I really don't. The guy's nuts, the guy is nuts.
Speaker 1:Fuck, what's the name?
Speaker 2:of the other dude there's the like the founder of Omnia Performance, forgetting his name, right, he's really really interesting. There's a variety of different people that were doing these kind of like ultra endurance things and I it was A, it was impressive and it's like you know, they're talking about these interesting things and that are inspiring in a variety of different contexts. But the thing that stood out for me, that I kind of I had a moment of clarity where I, like I saw the lie, and the lie was that I can't do this and that's just not true. Like like most things, at the beginning you suck. If you have no experience with it, you will suck at the thing and that's fine. It's just because you're a beginner and I had kind of like equated beginners level competency with like forever competency you know, and I was just like well, that's not true.
Speaker 2:I wonder where else I'm doing this in my life. So I just kind of decided to like challenge it at a moment of bravery, signed up for the event, which, like I highly recommend people do, like don't wait, sign up, just sign up for the thing and then figure it out after the big. One of the big things that's propelled me forward on this journey has been a fear of failing at it. It's kind of been.
Speaker 2:it's been really interesting, Like one of the things that drove me with the accountability was like I don't think I can do this, I don't think I can do this, I don't think I can do this. And so, because I didn't think I could, I would do all of my workouts during the week because I was like like really afraid of like showing up at the thing and like tanking at the 20th kilometer or something, and yeah that's so fascinating.
Speaker 2:And then so, and going through it, I've learned that I can. You know, and I don't know when that moment happened, but eventually I had this deep knowing that I'm like, oh, I can do this, like, and I'm at that place now and now I'm driven by interest and genuine enjoyment of the training, but for a long time it was not fun.
Speaker 1:And speaking of the I can and I can't, obviously you're using the I language. Was there anyone around you that ever said that you can't? Or was this just all?
Speaker 2:That's all me.
Speaker 1:Self self okay.
Speaker 2:That's all me Interesting. Yeah, I've always been surrounded by highly supportive people, which is really odd that I'm like as critical on myself as I am.
Speaker 1:Interesting and then like we're going to get into it a little bit in a moment, about obviously how we met and the whole mentorship and everything else. But the part, that one thing that, as you said, it was just making me, making me ponder and think, is I've had I don't want to say the opposite, but sort of different parts of the same coin, that I've always had. This I can't do it like that little. I forget what that was called, that little train that we used to watch that cartoon.
Speaker 2:It was a Tink engine. Yes, yes, so I've always had that personality, I think I can.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I've always had this I think I can. And then, like other people would be like this is terrible bad idea. You suck so bad. And I'd be like, but I can. And then so it's this very strange my sister always used to joke that I'm like really optimistic. She's like you're not a pessimistic like ask how, like the rest of us. But it was more like I had this weird optimism that I'm like, well, I will. I can't at this moment, but I will. I don't know where that came from. So I think that's what got me to show up in rugby in high school. I just like popped up, I know what it was and I'm like cool, I'm going to do this. And then I remember having like red light. It was really bad.
Speaker 2:And then I kept going.
Speaker 1:And then I I got better, and then I got to be in varsity and then I was an assistant captain. And then after that I'm like, cool now that we're here. And then I had some injuries, so like I separated my shoulders. So then after rugby I'm like, oh, you know, like I'm going to get stronger and start doing fitness competitions. And then after that I'm like, oh, cool, like that, that's done. Now, let's let's move on, do some powerlifting recreational stuff.
Speaker 1:And then I'm like, oh, I always wanted to fight. I'm terrible right now. And then, ironically, it's been six years now of me being in Muay Thai. At the past year, while you were having this aha moment with running, I was like just had a couple exhibitions and I was getting ready to go to Thailand in November last year to then come back and go into fight camp to have my first fight and it was all. The mindset shift was massive that I was constantly just doing things. Even this podcast and all the growth we've had. So that's fascinating how we use fitness as a vehicle to do all the things that are challenging our personality.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and it's really interesting how there was fun. There are fundamental differences, like at the core of both of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And yet in this instance they kind of resulted in a similar outcome.
Speaker 1:And then also with the similarity, how you mentioned that you had a fear of failure, same and my fear. One of my major fears is like and so I've only had the one sanctioned fight so far and like, honestly, I was terrified. I was like out of body experience, Like I was just trying to make it through. I couldn't hear my coaches, I didn't know what was going on, because as you know.
Speaker 1:I have performance anxiety. I spent 20 years just like puking on people in the rugby field and so, just like me showing up with my big man, I did. There was usually blue if I had powering. And then, in this context, I was like I did it. I showed up, I made it through and resembled the sport like, whatever I lost, I didn't give a shit because it was a huge win.
Speaker 2:And then the one thing you said the fear of failure, right, you think of like the trial, oh my.
Speaker 1:God, absolutely. And then the fear of failure part, like, yeah, I have a fear of failure, but also more of a fear of like. Like I said, I wanted to resemble the sport, to have a fear of not doing enough. So, as you were showing up doing all of the workouts to get ready for this, I'm like the same. I'm like, well, if I can fully say I did my best, then I'm good with it.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to show up and be like, yeah, I came, I showed up to everything, I trained, I focused on my nutrition, I did every part of fight camp and I then, then you know, I'm like yeah, yeah, all right, even if I lost, even if I quote air quote failed, did I actually, because I, like, showed up the best with what I had at the time and then you can progress from there. So I have this like drive that's like no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's interesting that comes you remind me of one of my favorite quotes from the movie the Guardian, which isn't a movie that a lot of people have seen. I must have shared this quote with you during our time together.
Speaker 1:Probably.
Speaker 2:But anyways. So for those that don't know, like, have you seen this movie, the Guardian with Kevin Costner and Ashton Kutcher?
Speaker 1:I think so Because at first I was like Guardian of the Galaxy. I could see that coming, but no, the Guardian.
Speaker 2:No different kinds of Guardians. It's a rescue swimmer movie.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, I can't remember. But, yeah, go ahead and share the quote, so so this.
Speaker 2:This quote comes from a scene where a student is asking Kevin Costner, who's kind of like the goat rescue swimmer of this, wherever they're doing their training, I think in like Alaska or something like that. Okay, so one of the students asks Kevin Costner. He asks him how do you choose who lives and who dies? Because there's probably going to be scenarios where you're swimming or one, one person in the water trying to save a fleet of people. What do you do? How do you make that call? Imagine being faced with that call. Oh God.
Speaker 2:Kevin Costner's answer was I take the first one that I get to, and then and this is the part that I love he says I swim as hard as I can for as long as I can, and then the sea takes the rest and and within that, and this is kind of like, if ever my girl listens to this podcast, she'll be like of course you're quoting this thing, because I fucking quote it like once a week. It's such a. It's such a like fundamental life principle for me. Or it's like there's this interesting relationship between because, like, we do not control outcomes. All we control are our inputs.
Speaker 2:Yes, and those inputs influence the outcome, but they do not determine the outcome. And so being able to be like very much like you, where it was, like I'll be damned if I get to that finish line or the end of that journey or this specific chapter with this marathon, I'll be damned if I don't give it everything that I have. And the thing that ultimately sets me free from whatever outcome, whether it be catastrophic or triumphant, is whether or not I did the work. Right, and you can just be kind of like, you can be good with whatever outcome. Right, you can be like you can go to a fight and, I don't know, within 10 seconds you get a little bit of a headache. Right, you can be like you can go to a fight and, I don't know, within 10 seconds you get kicked in the head and you're like out. But if you're like proud of how you showed up, where you're like I didn't leave a stone unturned, like what else is there?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. That is also I really relate, which is why we connect. It's just how I process everything. It's like if you put in it's the effort, right, and so we can get into the, the sports psychology and the goal setting and all of what we just said, right, so we're talking about like progress, goals and effort and all of that stuff.
Speaker 1:But at the end of it it's just if I ultimately as a person, in every aspect whether we're talking about fitness, professionally, coaching, like personal, if I'm like I showed up, like turned every single stone, put in my full effort, and then that may look different, right, because now, like you were talking about capacity, so let's say, soccer version of you, if you were to go run, like you wouldn't put in the training, so the capacity that you had to go for a run was very different than now you that's put in training and you have all of this like literal aerobic capacity and mental capacity and physical capacity, right, so capacity can keep growing. But it's like when I, when I say like my best is at that moment in time, because maybe I haven't learned the skills or put in some of those to develop, like my best now is way different than my best last year, and that's the beautiful part. It's just like oh, I wonder I wonder what else I could do yeah.
Speaker 2:What shifted? Yeah, I'm curious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was honestly that that, that putting in the reps, it's not. It's not the sexy part. It's like when you keep showing up, doing the work, you eventually get there, like when you were mentioning at first you're like I can't, and then there was that transition portion. Is that my mindset? I think in most areas, like I was mentioning, has always been a lot more like optimistic and I just had this like I can attitude and have this like I'm a unicorn in the world, like in the beginning. But it was like when you actually put in the work, your body catches up and vice versa. I'm constantly been in therapy and I'm actively working on my mindset showing up in the gym, putting in the reps on repeat, on repeat, on repeat, on repeat.
Speaker 1:It just strengthens you mentally and physically and that was the main thing and the other things that shifted right it's. I don't know what episode of this is at the moment, but I've been doing my podcast. I built, I built, you know an online course. I developed that. I took more risks than other spaces, so it's like all the skills transference. It's like that's where we were saying the fitness for me has always been an ability to kind of like build confidence and be a place where it's like the self validation Cause you could be like I wonder if I can do it. Cool, I did it, okay, great. Next thing, and then it has created that capacity for me to be able to do more things, take more risks and to still be scared, but like not be um, what's the word? Like held down by my fear.
Speaker 1:I'm just like, yeah, I'm going to yes, Thank you, that's a good one. I'm like. I know I'm going to be scared.
Speaker 2:It's courage, man. Yeah, I'm like, I still want to do anyway, but we're going to do this.
Speaker 1:We're ready. Thank you, yeah.
Speaker 2:Some of the best things in life are on the other side require courage, like even uh. 20 minutes before we started recording this, one of my best friends, marissa uh, published photos of her wedding. Talk about actually something that's profoundly courageous. I highly encourage you to have her, and potentially her partner, on here at some point to talk about their journey. It's not my place to talk about their journey, but their journey is profoundly courageous. Um, but I was just thinking of courage before we started recording because when I was looking at the photos, like I I don't know if you know this, but I officiated their their wedding.
Speaker 2:And I remember the moment when it started, like I wasn't ready, like I I had like my, my notes and like what I wanted to say, but I wasn't. I wasn't ready, like I needed probably an extra, I needed some extra time but it'd be 30 seconds or a matter of minutes to just kind of like ground, get focused and go okay, what are we doing? And then go. But there were things that had happened and it was like, oh, it starts now, like yeah, there's like preparation.
Speaker 2:There's. There's no more prep time. You need to. You need to step in and step up and step into this circumstance and this role that I was playing and truly, that moment was one of the most fulfilling moments of my life. Never done anything like that before, um, and it was one of the most fulfilling moments of my life. Thank you, you know, uh, not only because I got to do something for that, but also there's there's something really profound that happens when you dare to act in the face of fear that like makes you shake Right, like you're talking about your fight, like those. Those moments are transformative, like, once again, regardless of outcome.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and that's where all those cliches make so much sense that it's like about the journey, I'm like no, it really is Like literally like who you become is absolutely worth it, and I would love to. Yeah, I'm going to definitely follow up and hear their story. But one thing you just said that as you were talking, I had a little like little like it just filled me up for a moment. As soon as you said step up and step in, I'm like fuck, yes, like I was like ah, I just like felt it. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Well, it's compelling, right. You like you see, you see courage in another human being. It doesn't matter what the fuck they're doing. You're like like good for you, guy, girl or whoever in between. Right, it's like like good for you. The human struggle is is relatable, regardless of the context, you know. So I totally agree with you, totally. I had a friend who was telling me not long ago they did something that was really scary for them. That for me is kind of like, but for them it was like really confronting and I don't know. It was just like there was like a guttural and a visceral amount of like pride that I had for them. Mm-hmm, I was proud of them, you know, like.
Speaker 2:Good for you for like. It's very similar Like. If you heard the expression mudita in Pali, I think it's like. So it's ancient language and mudita is essentially the opposite of Shadun Freud. So, instead of like like relishing in someone's suffering, mudita translates to sympathetic joy, which is just like experiencing nothing but joy because of the joy of another. You know like relishing in someone else's trying to be a lamp for whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so anyways that is just getting very philosophical here it is, but it's amazing because it really is like, yeah, we'll get more technical in a moment, but the that's why we connect in the first place. Right, energy is contagious. It can go different directions. You can have someone like people that are afraid and just like you know you can. People want to live your life however you want. That's fine, but like for me is, I've always surrounded myself with people that are afraid and they lean in and like we have.
Speaker 1:I have a variety of fears, so for anyone listening, it's like for people that are doing stuff, they're not afraid of it, like sometimes, even when I'm sitting there press, like writing something, you know. There's that moment you're like, oh, I'm putting this out into the universe. Or right now we're on a podcast videoing, and you know this already that my life goal when I was younger was I wanted to be a broadcast journalist. And just talking on video, was this like monumental thing, even though it's like so natural. Right now I'm thinking about it. I have no, no thoughts, because I kept repeating it until, like something that was so scary. I'm like, uh, really.
Speaker 2:No, it's no big deal.
Speaker 1:No, no, like no big deal, no big deal, no big deal, yeah. So okay, let's, let's make it a bit more technical, sure? Well, hold on one second Back up. So context we met officially through doing various workshops where we're learning about anatomy, and then I started to come to these educational workshops that you were hosting through the exercise mechanic, and then from there, you know, there was a lot of definite mentorship. You've had a massive influence on the way that I think about fitness and I love it too, because, as much as you're going to get really technical in a moment, it's like I've always had this, like some of the things you said, like, for example, from your mentor who had said, like the body doesn't have to make sense to you, and then like looking at the body's under, no fucking obligation to make sense to anybody yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then so those things have really helped me because of someone that's curious and like one of my fear things absolutely as a fitness professional was like shit, I don't know all of this anatomy, I don't understand all of it. And then now I'm like doesn't really matter, like I can hold space and recognize my limitations, and then like be curious and keep growing, and then that's the part that's amazing. And so I know we did a mentorship together and I would love if you could just share with our listeners what what that involves, like in the exercise mechanic, like what you're doing with students in terms of like teaching them and mentoring them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cool. Thanks for opening that door. This is one of the things that, like I love doing the most, because each student journey is entirely different, so normally what ends up happening is I meet a student through some medium, like whether it be usually it's a course that I'm teaching and we notice that there's an alignment of values that there's something that's kind of difficult to put into words, but that you're just like yep, this is like my kind of person.
Speaker 2:We are aligned in some kind of ineffable way. You know what I mean. Yeah, I don't know why, but I'm a yes to this person and it's a you know. And if you're not sure what that is, can you think of a moment when you've ever met someone you're like, oh, I'm a no to that person?
Speaker 1:You sense the energy.
Speaker 2:but yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah you know, like stay away so. So normally it starts with that and then it graduates towards a conversation of you know us deciding that it'll be beneficial with with me playing a role in their life, and so the reason I bring it up it's kind of it's ambiguous. It's because the goal of the of the mentorship is to help nurture and challenge a fitness professional to be the type of person and professional that they want to be. So we definitely leverage my strengths. So my strengths are anatomical, my strengths are mechanical, my strengths are about the nervous system and pain and psychology and, increasingly I would say, philosophy, and and so if this student sees those four to five categories as being useful to them, then that's where we will work together and then we'll focus on trying to bridge the gap between where they are now in, where they want to be.
Speaker 2:And I create a curriculum, an initial curriculum which, funny enough, usually ends up being scrapped after the first call. You know, we still, we essentially do some initial testing. I create a curriculum, we have our first call and then we just kind of go from there and and it's a really beautiful kind of nonlinear journey that's equal parts supporting them and their human journey and their human experience, because we're not professionals, like our professional qualities are not isolated away from our personal ones, right, there's usually really really significant overlap in all of it, and so, fortunately, lessons from our personal life apply to our professional life and vice versa, absolutely so it ends up being this really interesting, vulnerable, stimulating, challenging, confronting time where you know once again, sometimes it's about helping them as an individual, like on my one of my last calls. One of the things that we talked about was what are their personal and professional values?
Speaker 2:Yeah it's kind of interesting, like you know, how do you make decisions, like what matters to you in your life, and we talked about a whole bunch of different things and you know our call. Before that we we talked about the nervous system. On our next call we're likely going to be talking about some kind of mechanical concepts, yeah, you know. So it's very broad and it's diverse, but the goal ultimately is to help nurture and also challenge, like call forward the person so that way they can be who they want to be in their personal life and in their professional life. That's the idea.
Speaker 1:So personal testimonial right now that's exactly what happened. So I remember you fully calling me out and calling me in. That's exactly when I launched this podcast. We were talking about it and you're like just do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, exactly, you were like do it.
Speaker 1:And I was like, okay, and then we were always talking about, you know, our commitment to mastery. And where I was like, where I was very uncomfortable and I kept having that resistance, was I don't, I feel I'm a student for life. That's why I'm always curious and I want to ask questions and I was uncomfortable presenting myself as like this, whatever we all know all. That's why a slice of humble pie was born and it allowed a way for me to be myself. And it was through you calling me in. And then you also called me in when I was showing you my vision of like why I became fitness professional in the first place, Like I have like a health communication background and human rights. And when I wanted to be a broadcast journalist from time I was 14, I had this like massive vision of like using fitness as a vehicle. And then we talked about it and then you were like do it. And then but not just the words Like you nurtured it until it came out of me and then I ended up having this huge vision and that's what level up that I just launched. That was like the first stage of this like multi vision space. So I have been absolutely in that space where you've called me in and I'm like cool. And then you saw it in me. I knew it was there. I mentioned to you that I had the I can, but it hadn't been nurtured and someone hadn't believed it in the way that you did that. I was like all right, we're fucking doing this. And I was like holy shit.
Speaker 1:Like two years later it's personally, professionally, physically, geographically, I'm in a completely different place and that was from you know that nurturing and calling somebody in and like, yeah, I'm going to start crying, so with gratitude, like holy shit.
Speaker 1:And then this is the part that's like I want you to geek out. We're going to get into the mechanics, but that's the part that I think the most important as a fitness professional and as a coach and mentorship, whatever is like allowing someone to have that part, because then when they can move forward from that fear or lean in with that fear, the rest is like kind of easy. Like I, even to this day, like I remember some of those things that I'd be scared of, certain things about my clients, and I remember a workshop where you use a balloon to explain the like a rotation, and I was like, oh my God, internal oblique, and then you have them as a balloon and I like retained it, Even though I remember reading it because it just kind of connected. It brought out a different part of me where my brain was like ding, ding, ding, ding. So anyway, little testimonial work with that. Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing that.
Speaker 2:It's really touching. I really loved um. I really loved our time together Like it was super, super, super, super fun and, by extension, this is super fun so cool and I was like, yeah, we'll just.
Speaker 1:we'll just make this a thing. We'll have a new podcast or whatever other medium we're having and we'll catch up and see all the wonderful shit we've done around the world.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:I'm pumped.
Speaker 2:Awesome.
Speaker 1:So one thing that obviously we're learning about mechanics, and so I'm just curious um what you have learned First of all, before we talk about what else you're teaching when you are new to the world of running.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is there new things you learned about, like mechanics, about the body, that you had it learn just because you started doing the running Cause? This part was technically new for you.
Speaker 2:So I would, um, no short answer. Yeah, oh, but what I mean by that is like the mechanics of it, like the drawing out, like ground reaction forces and, you know, talking about, like biomechanically, what's happening in the body. I didn't learn anything there, but what I did learn were strategies, um, to help my running mechanics. So, like, if you think of, um, if you think in a training context, usually external cues drive performance better than internal ones. Um, you know, uh, and there's lots of research that supports us Like, if you're thinking of an internal cue, of like I'm going to focus on squeezing my lats, let's say I want to pull up, you're not going to necessarily, you're not going to usually create as much force as if, during a pull up or a chin up, you're thinking about driving your elbows down and back. Or if you're thinking about lifting your chest up to the bar, um, or do you know what I mean? Like, are you following?
Speaker 1:that process? Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:That's really useful. So, like there are some things that I learned with with running that I found very useful in terms of, like, what's a cue, that, what's one thing that organizes my body in such a way that, um, that checks a lot of the mechanical boxes, um, and there's, there's two cues that I think about a lot when I'm running, three I would say Um, so stand tall, um, land with my feet underneath me, um, and, and usually increase my cadence. So if I did, if I think of those things like tall and land with my feet underneath me, those two things clean up probably 90% of um, like the mechanical opportunities with, uh, with my stride.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like when I get tired that's what I focus on.
Speaker 1:So naturally, there's always discussion, uh, and you know, I've heard let's narrow it down to two different thoughts, where some people say that you know, like the same narrative that you use for yourself that no, not everyone's a runner. You know, they're not built like a runner, they don't have the mechanics of a runner. Or there's some other people that are like hey, you can develop it, and so like. Can you like, I guess? Well, let me try and formulate my question. First of all, what are your thoughts on the fact that you need a specific mechanic to be able to run, like? Is there truth to that? Or I mean barring?
Speaker 2:sorry, barring any specific contraindications. Like someone is a paraplegic, you know, like, or yeah, like you know. So if someone has two legs and they don't have like massive injuries, I totally think they can. But I think you, like, you need to start out by defining running.
Speaker 1:Like, are we?
Speaker 2:talking. Is there a minimum standard of 5k, 10k, half marathon or a marathon Like that? I don't think is true. I think running is the act of like propelling yourself forward, slash, falling forward and only really being on one foot at a time. That's like a really big distinction between walking as a category and even fast walking, and then jogging and running. The big difference is two points of contact, or always at least one point of contact, excuse me, with sometimes two and then, versus with running and jogging, it's either zero points of contact or one, and so there's no minimum of time for you to meet that criteria that you can run. So I think, so long as someone has the like, the raw components, I think it usually boils down to skill and tolerance.
Speaker 1:Let's build on the tolerance. That was the second question I was about to ask. So then, how does one develop, let's say, their running mechanic? You mentioned that you were finding ways to improve your running mechanic and why you're doing a program in the first place. Right, you didn't just sign up for a marathon and do it tomorrow, like. You signed up a year later and you've been following the whole thing, so, understandably, sort of build tolerance. Can you speak to the listeners? Speak about it to the listeners, please, on how you develop tolerance.
Speaker 2:Little by little. I think the big challenge at the beginning of these types of journeys, anytime that you're starting something new, is you actually don't know what your capacity is. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, like you actually have no idea, it would be very easy to blow past your threshold because you have no data informing about where that threshold might be. And so what I would recommend is especially if we're talking about individuals that maybe want to start something new start small in terms of initial dose, something that you think would be easy-ish or definitely doable, and then from there start to increase the frequency of that thing, and then after that you start increasing the duration of the thing.
Speaker 2:So an example of how that could be is, let's say, I think my max running or what I have done in the past, and it felt like it was close to my max was maybe like 25 or 30 minutes. Maybe what you do is you go for a 15 minute easy run once you see how that goes, and then maybe you do that two or three times a week, working your way up to that within a two or three or four week period, and then maybe you increase that same 15 minutes. Maybe you increase it up to like four days a week or 15. All the or not 15, excuse me four or five days a week. So then by the end of the week you've ended up doing what would that be?
Speaker 2:An hour, five days a week, that's 75 minutes. That eclipses your previous capacity. And so then at that point you can maybe be like all right, maybe we'll start introducing longer durations, maybe we'll start introducing more intensity. Usually you won't introduce intensity at the beginning, but that's kind of how I would go about it is. I would start light like really small ultra conservative, because you don't know where your limits are, and then from there you slowly build it up. But I would build it up with frequency first, more so than increasing the dose of an individual session.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. I mean, we do that in training and everything. You don't want to go hard one day and then they'll do anything for a week, right? So, a little bit by little, being more consistent with it and having your body recover. That's it. It's really really essential.
Speaker 2:Cool, Well that's it, you know, and so this may be news for the listeners, but you don't get fit overnight and you actually don't know when it's going to happen, and so success is tethered to time and repetition. So, because the results, like the result, the lag measure of increased fitness or strength happens on the backbone of, like the compound effect of consistently taking, like you know, similar ish actions, and you just commit to the process and then eventually, next thing you know, you wake up one day and you're like, oh, oh, it's easy now, I didn't even notice, I didn't even notice when that happened, but I'm there now.
Speaker 1:You know I fully relate to that. I can see it like an athlete me understands that completely, and the coach me has witnessed that in some of my clients and then it's been, you know one. The hard part is when you're trying to not push people too far but, like you know, kind of lead them enough where they had those aha moments on their own. But it's like, trust me, like wait, you're going to get there, you're going to have that moment that you're going to get up and be like huh, and then when they do, is just so wonderful Because then you can see their thought process with like I can't do this. And then suddenly they're like, oh, I can't, that was easy. And you're like, yeah, because you, that was an inevitable consequence of the frequency, the duration, the work ethic, the intensity.
Speaker 1:At some point it's going to happen. It's just inevitable. If you keep showing up, you're going to build the tolerance, you're going to develop the skill. It's going to become a habit. You will gain the strength. You will have the time. It's a matter of time. You just put it, put in the work.
Speaker 2:Totally, yeah. I mean, the greatest predictor of success is, you know, is the repetition of these habits over time. Right, it really is as simple as that. It's more about adherence and time than it is about intensity.
Speaker 1:I love that and that really feels the first part of this podcast, when we're talking about mindset, right? So if you're lacking the skill and the whatever, it doesn't matter. You just keep showing up enough times, long enough, you'll get somewhere.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:So I have more of a specific question. I guess Sure.
Speaker 2:I'm kind of stinging.
Speaker 1:It's building off of the running, so there's one. By the way, was it owned? No, I guess it worked.
Speaker 1:Narrative that irks me in this industry, you know we're trying just one, no, no, the one about the one about like, well, the one that I, that leads the way I think about how, like we're not trying to necessarily fix something, I'm like who am I to quote unquote fix something? Like I'm just trying to strengthen it and I don't knowing this, like I know that a quote, I'm not symmetrical and things aren't so easy that I'm going to be a little puzzle piece. Like I understand that things are all connected and, like you were saying earlier, I don't even know what I don't know like about how the body does shit that I don't even understand. That doesn't make sense to me. But one example I always use with some of my clients, when you know they're talking about quote unquote, I had these imbalances or I can't do this because of whatever cause and correlation is, for example, having the perfect running mechanic is thinking of you saying bolt, I always have that.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you've heard the story about how, like he's not perfectly symmetrical, he has, you know, doesn't have the exact way that one should be running and yet he's the fastest man on earth. So then the part. I guess that was a rant. You don't have to be perfect guys, just do it. But the question portion is like, if you can break that part down cause I know that you're aligned with that part, that you're not having imbalances, you don't have to be specifics, that you're not trying to like, fix you. And then how does this work when you're actually looking at gate and running, if you have someone like you saying bolt, that doesn't have the symmetry, like how does it work when you have individual running mechanics, when you're trying to overcome, I guess, an imbalance or an injury, like how do you navigate when you're not perfectly symmetrical?
Speaker 2:That's tough. I think that I don't know if anyone has this answer per se, because I think that there's two ideas that kind of oppose each other a little bit and I think that usually people view them as being mutually exclusive, but I don't think they are. So if we were to just stick with this idea of Usain Bolt from what I remember, he has scoliosis- yes, yes.
Speaker 2:And based off of a lot of standards of like feet and stuff, he pronates more than what people think he should. I think those are the two things that people pick on.
Speaker 1:I believe that's what I read too.
Speaker 2:Now, the two arguments that stem from this are the first one, which is kind of like imbalances are normal and they actually don't matter. Let's not pathologize the normal. Normally what they will say is like look, exhibit A fastest man in the world within like 100 meters or 200 or 400, whichever distance is, he's one. I'm sure there are many. Look, you can be hella fast and still have these dysfunctions, and I think that that's a good thing in some ways, because a lot of people get hung up on their dysfunctions Exactly, and they can create a lot of fear and fragility around the self, which ultimately creates a very predictable vicious cycle of behavior of fear, less movement, weakness, injury and increased sensitivity, which then reinforces the narrative that they shouldn't be doing a thing, and then you can't see what I'm doing with my hand on my desk.
Speaker 1:I'm doing this and it just kind of.
Speaker 2:they do this and it's very predictable, right? We know what narratives of fragility and fear do to people, not only when it comes to their experience in the moment, that usually fear drives sensitivity, but it also drives changes in lifestyle. And those changes in lifestyle like we were talking about earlier in terms of the compound effect. They compound over time in either positive or negative manners, but we know which directions, which direction fear and fragility compounds in. It compounds in the direction of weakness and it ends up perpetuating the very thing that they don't want. So that's one of the advantages of that narrative. But here's the thing we actually don't know, whether or not it's true or not If Usain Bolt could have been faster had he gotten his scoliosis fixed or if he had addressed his pronation.
Speaker 2:We actually don't know if he would have ran faster, because we can't do like A B testing, parallel universe type of stuff, where Usain Bolt in this universe, we don't touch his feet, but Usain Bolt in a different universe. We give him a whole bunch of different exercises to fix his pronation. We can't isolate those types of variables. So it's tough because I think that there are potential risks and perhaps performance and innovation that could be left on the table If we don't question about what could be.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And so for that reason I am I'm not against asking these questions of like, well, what, if? Right, you know what if we were to work on these things and if we were to remove the word optimize, because I think that's very context dependent If we were to maybe not say we're gonna optimize Usain Bolt, but what if we were to just change, like, make some changes to how he runs? Would he get faster? Would his performance within this specific metric that we care about, would it get better, as we define it? And I think that's an interesting question and I think that those things are really hard to answer.
Speaker 2:But I find, like, in the same way that, like within government, we have multiple parties that oppose each other, and it's like that by design, so as to force conflict and hopefully find a place in the middle that and also that will be representative of the people, hopefully. So, similarly with our ideas, I think that sometimes mutually opposing ideas, instead of just choosing one that we're going to be focused on, I think, if we can get comfortable with the discomfort of that fundamental, like tension that comes from disagreement, I think that is a very nurture, very what am I trying to say? It's an environment that is very rich with creativity and innovation and insight, and I think that that's important, in contrast to like the hard lines of like you know, this is what's true, or this is what I believe to be true. End of story.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, that was well. You saw me just like nodding.
Speaker 2:You know like I'm just like nodding as you're talking. I thought you just had to go pee.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I was like absolutely. And so the one part that I absolutely adore that you just said and you do a brilliant job of doing is holding the nuance of topics where we're just with curiosity and you're not judging it. And so when you said change, that's phenomenal because it's like you're right, we don't know it, could it? Maybe it optimizes quote air quotes, or maybe it doesn't. You don't know because you haven't, we don't have the base line to compare it to, because this you know, you say in bold that's in a different universe, like we don't know, we can't compare it to this other version of him.
Speaker 1:And so I feel like the nuance part is brilliant, because, like we can learn so much and then unlearn so much and then change our own minds when we're just approaching with curiosity without, like you said, making these dichotomous, like it must be this or that, I'm like maybe it's both, maybe it's neither, I don't know. Yeah, that's fascinating.
Speaker 2:I like to think of these things. I have this visual in my mind of kind of like how I envision the professional trajectory or how I, if I was to provide like a visual representation of what mastery is. In my mind, mastery is not a destination, but it's the name of a process, kind of very similar to balance. So a lot of people view balance as being a state, but actually balance is a process. Homo stasis isn't a state. Homo stasis is a process. Balance is the process of constantly adjusting your center of mass within your base of support, and so, similarly, I think mastery has been kind of misnamed or mislabeled, people thinking it is, thinking it's a state, but in actuality it's the process of constant refinement and it's like.
Speaker 2:So the visual that I have in my mind is that of an asymptote in math. You know that curve that gets infinitely close to the X or the Y axis but it never actually touches. You zoom out it looks like it's touching, but if you zoom in it's like there's a huge amount of space and then it gets really close. But if you were to zoom in, there's room, and I find that that is really I think it's a better representation of mastery than the kind of like stasis model of it, and the reason I'm bringing that up is that I think curiosity is the thing that drives it, because curiosity isn't necessarily attached to a fixed outcome. Curiosity is just about learning and it's about like non-attachment and non-identification to ideas. It's just about learning and I think we can get away from that because there's certainty, right. There's like there's certainty, there's something really seductive about oh, I found the truth, right, like there's something really seductive, but I don't know.
Speaker 1:And I honestly again, I was just not in the I'm just yes, yes, I'm just not in the other.
Speaker 1:CJ, we have the curious portion and like, I agree with you because it's like, right, that's the whole point of being a student for life. You're constantly just growing, evolving, you have questions on questions, you have more questions, and then it's like you used to believe something like we've had this discussion about. I used to believe something very specific about this is the right approach for nutrition. And then you're like well, and then right, you start to learn some more variables that have changed your mind. And that's the beautiful part of being human is that when you're presented with more information, even if you weren't aware of it and you'd be curious to learn and grow the part that I love about this. And then like, when it's the curious brain, well, I love that part of the part.
Speaker 1:That really frustrates me is it's not just the practitioners, but I think it's a society where we want that answer. So it's like someone's going to the physician or they're going to the physiotherapist and they like have to have it. It's like this hurts, why. And then if you say something like, well, there's a, your pain is real. You know, I'm not invalidating it, you have valid pain, but there could be 400 possibilities. I'm not sure either. I'm using my best educated process of elimination because I don't know what I don't know, you don't know what you don't know to tell me, and so maybe, and then.
Speaker 1:But then that's, I think, the pressure portion, because then some people turn around and try and give some more absolute answers as a result, because it's like people are looking for it and I don't know if we're serving anybody, for constantly like well, this MRI said this, or this x-ray said that, and this practitioner told me that I should never run again because of this. And then it's like we've there is this or this need for certainty and answers, and then like someone is giving it. It's like the supply and demand of certainty. And then I feel like, if we've moved away from it a little bit, maybe we would like to your point, the curiosity could lead it more Cause. Yeah, I, yeah, that wasn't a question, that was a rant. If you want to comment on it again.
Speaker 2:I agree. Yeah, you know it's funny, it's a hard thing because it's like sometimes needs Sometimes what we think or, yeah, sometimes what a client thinks that they want or what they think they need and what we think they need are sometimes those two things enter into conflict, Right? And I think that's kind of like what you're one of the things that you're describing here and, once again, like I push up against that all the time where clients coming to me and they're like you know, and as you know, I deal with some I help people with pain, amongst other things, Right? So sometimes clients will come to me and they're like why do I hurt? And I need to make a call about what kind of answer I'm going to give them. You know, am I going to give them something that's going to play into some narratives that they have about themselves that are maybe not the most productive in the long run, but it will help me get buy in in the short term so that I can help them or do I think they'll be receptive to a different model.
Speaker 2:And it's tricky, it's really tricky. I tend to err on the side of trying to be as truthful as possible. I think one of the challenges is that, with these ambiguous answers, if you say ambiguous answers, ambiguously and without confidence, I like, I mean I would agree, I would relate with why people wouldn't have faith in you, kind of a thing, right. But if you say with confidence well, you know P2, exactly why your shoulder's hurting isn't totally clear, because it seems like there's a lot of things at play. But what we're going to do, you know, I'd like to start with this. You know, or like or like, in the assessment, I'm finding these things, and so this is what I think is going on. So let's start with this. We'll see how your body responds and we'll go, and we'll go from there, you know, and I think that, like, you can say ambiguous things with conviction and that, ultimately, I think is better than misleading people.
Speaker 2:For the sake of you know, for the sake of long-term influence, but I'm guilty of that. I had someone just a little small micro anecdote. I had someone come in who was like fighting for their limitations, like advocating for their limitations, like you don't understand. This is why I'm broken and I didn't think it was prudent. I could see, like the writing. I was like, okay, there's some things here that we'll have to work on, and because they came in combative, I chose to not be because I didn't want to like, just do that. You need to create a therapeutic alliance, right yeah?
Speaker 1:And that's the whole point of like meeting people where they're at. You know, sometimes, just because we know something doesn't mean anything. Someone like you have, you have, like in the case of myself and you, we can use ourselves as an example, like, right, it's that nurturing you were saying, calling someone in, and sometimes it takes them a minute to meet you. It takes the time, and that's the whole point is that you're allowed to. You have the autonomy to take the time you need to take the time to grow the skills, to have the confidence, and then you're like cool, cool, cool. Let me try this now. Like there's, there's a lot involved. It's not just pain, right, this is philosophy, psychology.
Speaker 1:Like things you're going through in your life and sometimes it's okay that you are. You know my therapist being like what? If you are in a comfort zone, I'm like you know what Good point therapist, but like, sometimes it's good maybe to sit in that space for a little bit until you have the opportunity to move forward. And then the other part too, yeah, so meeting people where they're at, and then I think it's beautiful what you just said about being truthful and having that being able to say things of ambiguous with confidence, and I think that's what creates a very like trusting relationship with a client and a coach, cause I'm like I don't know, and this is my best guess, and if this isn't serving you, I'm going to go find the answer or send you to someone that does, which is what I do all the time.
Speaker 1:That's why I have an incredible network of practitioners that I'm like little outside of my scope or my way of thinking. I'm going to send you over here, and then there's a group of us that are, you know, curious and trying to serve this person, which is the whole point. It's not me just trying to have an answer for you, and I think that's the right way to do it. If we're like, I genuinely don't know. I feel like it really creates that confidence. It actually is better than if you're like yeah, this is why I'm like, is it though?
Speaker 2:I agree, I totally, I totally, totally, totally agree. And also I think that like there's an element here, that kind of just it boils down to like your own values and what you prioritize in life, like I've I've there there are many different fitness professionals and individuals who have courses that they teach, and I look at some of the things that they teach, I'm like that seems to be objectively false, like based off of, like certain our current understanding of things. Like that seems to be false. And yet you've got this monster following and you're saying it with bravado and confidence and everyone's eating it up, but but it seems to be really profoundly wrong. You know, and I don't know, I think like that for me, ethically, it's just a not, it's not a line that I'm willing to cross Like I would. I would much rather have an eighth of the following and remain integral to myself than compromise my soul for following and profits. You know, but people have different values.
Speaker 1:This is the thing that's tough, right, yeah, so well, that's the. That's what full circle we've come back to is our mindset and our values and how interconnected personal and professional is right. Like there's skills transfers across the board. Like how you do one thing is usually how you do other things, and that's why you were mentioning people working together alignment. That was the alignment portion for me and you and for all my clients and everyone I worked with, and it's out of alignment. It's usually.
Speaker 1:That has been the part that I'm like we're seeing all of this from a different lens. I love that. I did this 50 times with my hands. Like my hands are just been drawing circles, but, yeah, I agree with you fully there.
Speaker 1:And then the other part, too, that I guess we haven't talked about is in this you know I was asking you about your mentorship and obviously we're selling services and there's marketing, but in this industry, that in itself is a whole skill set, so it's not even just about someone's experience or education and what they're going to be doing for you. Sometimes it is the loudest voice that's heard and you have some incredibly intelligent, great coaches or people where they haven't created that marketing machine, where their voice is lost, and so that's just really important, if you're listening to this, to just recognize that, that it may be someone that's their fear or that's a skill they haven't built, that they're incredible at maybe the biomechanics or helping you get to one goal, but they are lacking, like the skill of marketing, or that's a whole other world, and so that's why you know it's important to talk about that, because then sometimes you're like, oh, wow, this person they must know it's like not necessarily. That's why we have a lot of misinformation, and even if we have education with people that have PhDs and masters, that it could still be, unfortunately, sharing things that are either false, misleading or harmful. It's just because people are people before their titles and their labels. Like you can have someone absolutely brilliant that doesn't, that knows a lot, that on paper doesn't have their whatever, but that's what we look for, right? That's a way that we credit people in this society is everything after their name and on their CV.
Speaker 2:Totally.
Speaker 1:But maybe they're not as curious or as committed to the cause and it's just like filling up their CV, like, look at me, look at all my experience and everything I know, but are they curious about you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, and honestly, like what came up for me when you were talking, there is, I haven't had a mentor who has really moved my life forward in a meaningful way, who fell into the category of, like, the type of person who spoke in absolutes. You know, like the most intelligent people that I've met are humble, usually very nuanced, and they actually don't give a shit if people follow them or not. They're just kind of like yep, I'm here standing for what I think is right and I don't feel the need to make a lot of noise. I think that sometimes this need to make a lot of noise can be a little bit pathological.
Speaker 2:You know, At least it seems that way in some instances. But yeah, I don't know. I find nuance is like a really really really big tell of like. If there's none of it, it's like even on, like you know, on social media, like people talk a lot about how like you need you know social media is like you need emotional stuff for you know to make like, to hook people. I call such bullshit on that. I agree. I don't accept that there isn't a way to be effective on social media without compromising your values or even just sharing something that isn't true Like I don't know how many people that I've or how many instances I've noticed where someone shares something inflammatory and black and white and you ask them about it privately and they're like yeah, that's not what I meant.
Speaker 2:You're like, why the fuck are you putting it online? Like like you know like this is it's not net neutral. This is damaging, you know like I will call someone out right now. Joel Seidman is a really great example. Dr Joel Seidman I don't know what he's a doctor in is a really great example of someone that like says really black and white, inflammatory things that when you ask him privately he has a more nuanced stance.
Speaker 2:But if you look at his posts, it's like, by thousands of people, there's hundreds of comments and it's like, and all the people in there that agree with him are agreeing with the you know the kind of like absolutist black and white things that he's saying. They're not agreeing with the nuanced truth, and so it's actually net negative. If you think of like in the instance of teaching, or even just in the instant, when it comes to like social media, usually the goal is to influence people, and so it's. I think that the question is like, you know, like, gaining traction and stuff is a means to influence, and if and if to influence people, you have to influence them in the wrong manner. It just seems. I just don't understand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's very relatable and, like I have a comms degree, that's how I view the world. So, as you were talking, about that immediately on the guest.
Speaker 1:I'm like really passionate about it, and so I've come up with. You know, I come against like I wouldn't say I'm a comms expert or marketing expert, because it's always evolving, that's the beauty of it. But then you learn something, and something that used to work Like, yeah, okay, be polarizing or, like you know, be sensationalized or like lead with this. But then that's where I started to get very frustrated because to me I'm like no, no, I don't want to just to your expertise of pain science. I don't want to take someone's pain points and push on it and shame them and guilt them to choosing me for these reasons, because my perspective is that I believe people are intelligent and autonomous and capable and I can have a discussion and it's not going to bring in all of this traction, because I'm not saying anything massively polarizing.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh, yeah, this, have some protein and go to bed and it's not sexy, because I'm not saying this outrageous thing, that's new and that that's when we enter again the other skill set and like it's like I had very intentionally tried to pick words and language, because that's the one area that I come from, that I'm like, no, no, I may be missing the, the knowledge base of the moment, anatomy, for example. But no, I'm going to be very particular about language. I'm not going to help you continue to generate the I can't, I can't. There's certain words that you know. Sure, it's a buzzword, and then it's going to pick up on social media, but then I don't care if the five people that see it. At least, I want you to know that for what I'm saying online, what I'm saying on my website, what we talk about in person, is literally what I mean in every aspect. Like I'm going to carry myself personally, professionally, privately and in public the exact same person and that was, like, incredibly important to me.
Speaker 1:And it took me this long to be able to have that because I kept coming against it where it was the opposite. It's like be polarizing. I'm like what, what just? And then I think that's where, as consumers, I think we should all back up for a second too and just kind of look at where we're getting information, how we're looking at stuff that's inflammatory and how we're passing it around, whether it's in the fitness industry and wellness and nutrition, because I think some of those, those things that are harmful, like the things in our realm that are talking about nutrition and fitness, if we're going to have it really change, it's like we have to sort of also demand it as consumers so that everyone can meet each other.
Speaker 1:And so, like I'm looking for it, I look for mentors and people that have the nuanced approach. I look for people that are like I'm not, I'm an expert on this, or let's talk about it. So there's discussion and nuance and it's not just like people with microphones like yelling from their own soapboxes and we've like taken the humanity out of it and the ability to have discussion and be like oh, I'm wrong, you're right, I'm so sorry. I think that's incredibly important and I love the nuance that you were talking about, like to hold people to their integrity. And yeah, as I'm saying that on my soapbox, I'm like yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I think it's good, like good for you, good for you for being willing to, like you know, go against the grain when presented with recommendations that don't vibe with you. Like, I think that's great, and you know, we're not alone here. There's a lot of people who feel this way and I do think that this is like a probably the wrong word for this, but there's like a lowercase r revolution when it comes to a lot of these things, where people are starting to learn and have faith that they don't need to compromise their values or even what they believe is the truth, for the sake of traction. You know, and um yeah, and that it's more valuable to ultimately be able to like go to sleep at night proud of what you did, in contrast to like feeling like you sold your soul to the devil for followers. You know, like I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I agree, you know, one of the questions that I ask, whether it be in a mentorship context or even in a training context, and I ask myself this a lot. It's like you know, on your deathbed, like what's going to matter, you know, and I think that like one of the things that is really underrated and that we don't think about a lot on a daily basis is like did I remain true to my values, that I act from a place of integrity? I think that'll matter more at the end of your life, or even at the end of a year. If you did a reflection, if, during a year, you like knew deep in your core that you did the wrong thing, but that you had an extra $100,000 in your account, you probably feel pretty shitty, whereas if you had like the same amount of money and you felt like you were like a whole-hearted fuck yes to everything that you did for that year, that's a good life, that's like peaceful and that feels exponentially more valuable than the money, you know, or the followers.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. I yeah, I'm just like absolutely yeah, because, yeah, it's a line and that's why I'm self-employed, you are too, and I want. It's the beauty of this, right. So there is, that was done by choice. It's not for everybody. There are certain things that you know, massive, massive stressors that come with this, like entrepreneur life.
Speaker 2:Totally.
Speaker 1:And that was one thing for mine. I'm like brah, everything has a pro and a con, but I will take the hard stuff, because that part was so important to me that I can navigate with my truth and not be shoved in a box where I'm like I am not going to live this life, just existing. If I'm going to go out, we're going to go out swinging, and at the end of it I'll be like I literally turned every stone, like we were saying at the beginning Totally, you know it reminds me of something I was talking to one of my I just, I just, I just.
Speaker 2:I've said this a lot lately, but it's like you know, life isn't without suffering. I think the real question is is the juice worth the squeeze? Right, like, there's going to be a fucking there's, there's a squeeze everywhere. Yeah, yeah, Like you know, like like one thing that was really popular last year is this idea of like, choose your heart, whether it be, you know, the the, the hard of the consequences of sedentary living or the hard of daily discipline and being active with your body and having more energy, and those types of things.
Speaker 2:Like, just choose your heart. They're both of them are difficult. You just need to choose which one you're willing to tolerate, you know. So, yeah, yeah, I think the idea of is the juice worth the squeeze is, at least for me, it's one of the ways that I frame things Right and, like you were talking about where you were like, yeah, it's difficult, but I get all of these things, and so therefore, as much as it's really like I have, you know, moments of crippling self-doubt and these things, the juice is worth the squeeze because I get to do something that feels true to me and I think that's important.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah. And then one thing before my final wrap up question was with the choose, choose your heart part, the one thing bringing it back to the not dichotomous thinking and the nuance. I was seeing a lot of these posts and some of them I'm like you're missing the nuance, because sometimes both hearts are right and both of them are going to be applicable, but you have to.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:You have to see the context and then, especially when it comes to fitness and like privilege, like able-bodied privilege or like access or that that opens up barriers and everything else.
Speaker 2:No discussions too Exactly. Yeah totally.
Speaker 1:So. Choose your heart, but be a human while you're doing it, because being a human is hard.
Speaker 2:Okay. So, speaking of other, I just have one thing on that too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Like, be careful of, like. There's a lot of self, there's a lot of like, self righteousness, in the fitness space where it's like because I can. Therefore, everyone should. And I think that, like you know, there might be certain objective physiological truths about things, that is, and I think that that seems to be true within certain contexts, but we can't forget the larger context of someone's life and other. You know, the objective truths are objective truths and that's fine. But when it comes to like, what people choose, you know, we need to not even just we, they need to consider where they're at and we don't get a say necessarily in what someone else is doing in their life, with their choices. We're allowed to have our opinion and we might say, oh, I think I would do things differently, but you'll. But you also don't know, and I think there's an element of like. We need to just be like nope, my decisions, like my life, my decisions, your decisions, your life, absolutely. And it ends there, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's the difference between, like the self responsibility, the autonomy, the empowerment. I think that's the maturity of it, where it's like what's in our control. And if you're asking in a coaching relationship, it's different. Like I've been hired to support you in certain aspects but just like I'm still not going to be the one to do it for you, like if you're right, it's a discussion point, and then you're the one in the driver's seat which is really important, and that's the whole calling someone in because you're doing it with love.
Speaker 1:I think you've always said to me hold someone in the container of love, and then that's it. You're holding them to it and you're not, you know, being wish like, and then they're the ones that have to step in and then that's the whole point. So I love that so much. So this was an incredible full circle conversation. We talked about from like mindset to philosophy, our personal goals, we did a little bit about anatomy and then, when the other way again about marketing as it happens in the way we talk about it just shows how full circle everything is, and I really, really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:And what I just want to take a moment right now is to share, please is. We talked about your mentorship, but I know you have some other stuff coming up, so, for whenever this episode is out, if you can share what's coming up in the next couple of months and where people can contact you and learn and have more wonderful discussions. So what's coming up and where can people reach you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So the things that I have coming up, I mean so the thing that I'm going to be opening, I'm going to be opening the door soon to kind of a little bit of a revamped mentorship offer, and so that's going to be opening, probably within the next at the time of recording. Right now, what are we? We're October 17th, so it's probably going to be opening like or probably like mid-November. It's probably when it's going to be opening up, I'm only going to be taking on about three trainers or three students. That's the thing that I have like on my immediate horizon. That's really exciting for me right now. And then, early 2024, we're going to be opening up the doors to the internship again.
Speaker 2:So the internship is a 16-week, so four months certification, where we dive into the four pillars that we stand for as an organization, which is functional anatomy, exercise, mechanics, pain, neuroscience and then the psychology of coaching, and so we dive into those four things. It's really fun. I'm, of course, very biased, but it's really fun. We have debates that are organized, that are meant to challenge how you think. You know, there's homework, there's a whole bunch of different stuff. So it's not the kind of thing where you just do a certification and then you forget 30% of it, or, sorry, you retain 30, you forget 70.
Speaker 2:The goal of this is to actually change how people think and to nurture critical thinking and contribute towards the clinical evolution of the fitness space in a meaningful way. It's going to be opening up again in 2024, when I don't know yet. If they want to learn more about that and kind of like, stay abreast, the website is theexercisemechaniccom. My personal page on Instagram is EASLIN, so my first initial, followed by my last name, underscore official, and if they want to follow the exercise mechanic on Instagram, it's at the exercise mechanic and all of those pages link to each other. So if you find one, you're fine, you know.
Speaker 1:And I'm going to put them in the show notes for sure. But one thing I just wanted to point out as, first of all, that whole thing was wonderful, but I love that as you were singing you animatedly, were like slamming your desk because I could hear the poem yeah, and we're seeing through this, I didn't even notice that I love it. I love it because it was like yes, that's funny, like he's speaking passion with his hands. He's ready to go to Italy, guys.
Speaker 2:That's funny, that's right. Yeah, that's right. Like how many weeks up? We're like four weeks away, four and a half. So yeah, it's coming.
Speaker 1:And so thank you so much for the discussion for the energy as always, and I am pumped. So next time, whenever our next episode is, we're going to be talking about your massive marathon goal, and now I want to see how it changes you and where you're going from there. So I'm so pumped to hear it. Awesome Thank you yeah, this has been a lot of fun P2.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Thanks again.
Speaker 2:Okay, talk soon. Bye.
