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A Slice of Humble Pie with P2
🥧 A podcast where we curiously explore nutrition, fitness, mindset, sports, wellness, & beyond. ☕️Host @parastoobadie
A Slice of Humble Pie with P2
Exploring Yoga: Beyond Poses to Personal Harmony and Cultural Respect
Unpack the essence of yoga with me, your host P2, and the ever-insightful Jas, as we challenge the common misconceptions surrounding this profound practice. Yoga isn't just about striking a pose; it's an intentional way of moving through life that offers far more than a mere physical workout. Jas enriches our conversation with her vibrant energy, reminding us that yoga is not a one-size-fits-all journey, but rather an inclusive path where each of us finds our own way.
In the heart of our discussion, we address personal boundaries and the quest for harmony within the yoga practice. We talk about the critical role of breath as our guide and how instructors can create a nurturing space for everyone. It's not about reaching an extreme of flexibility or strength but finding a practice that naturally fits our life, be it a dynamic asana sequence or a restful breathing exercise. The conversation invites you to honour your needs and cultivate self-care that resonates authentically with who you are.
Wrapping up our soulful exchange, Jas and I delve into the delicate matter of cultural appropriation in yoga, urging a thoughtful and respectful engagement with its ancient roots. Join us for this enriching dialogue that extends well beyond the yoga mat, and remember Jas's motto: "Learn to calm your shit so you can get shit done."
To connect with Jas;
https://www.yogawithjas.com/
Her cookbook;
The Spice is Right: A Collection of Vegetarian Punjabi-Inspired Recipes
Website: https://parastoobadie.com/podcast/
Email: asliceofhumblepiewithp2@gmail.com
Instagram: @asliceofhumblepiewithp2
Welcome back to A Slice of Humble Pie. I'm your host, P2.
Speaker 1:I'm a nutrition and fitness professional, a lover of pie and a curious human on planet Earth. Today's episode is all about yoga. I'm going to be chatting with Jas to learn all about yoga, but first a little bit about her. Jas is a ray of sunshine in human form Honestly, the best way of describing her. She's a lover of life, a teacher and an athlete. She holds a black belt in Taekwondo and is currently training in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. She holds a black belt in Taekwondo and is currently training in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Professionally, she has a diploma in international business, a master's in legal studies, is a professor at Algonquin College, is a social services specialist for the city of Ottawa and is the founder and workshop facilitator at Yoga with Jas.
Speaker 1:That's an impressive list of accomplishments and accolades, and I'm not even done. I'm going to be mentioning more throughout our chat, and it's important to talk about her background, not just because it's impressive, but it's going to be necessary for the context of what we're going to be talking about. So stay tuned. So, obviously, more importantly than her impressive resume, Jas is a big spirit who loves adventure, like traveling to over 23 countries, skydiving, scuba diving, dog sledding, appearing behind and in front of a camera lens and popping up in random places in an inflatable T-Rex costume. I've actually had that experience with her where I was in an inflatable t-rex costume. I've actually had that experience with her where I was in an inflatable unicorn outfit and it was just such a good time. It was ridiculous such a good time.
Speaker 1:Jas is kind, warm, genuine and just a good energy. You know she loves chai just as much as I love pie, so this is a great match. The warmest welcome to you, Jas. Thank you for your time and energy. Welcome to A Slice of Humble Pie. Let's get right into it. What does yoga mean to you?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, like you're really not mincing any words here, it's one of those things that can be really really touchy to some people, right, like you know what yoga is and it's this huge like spiritual awakening and like it's all of these things. But for me, in the simplest possible way, it's just moving through life with intention and that's that's at its core. That's literally all it is. So anything that we do anything from getting up in the morning, that's a its core. That's literally all it is. So anything that we do anything from getting up in the morning, that's a hard one a for a lot of people.
Speaker 2:Getting up in the morning with intention, because normally the first thing we do is like hit the snooze button, right, I don't, like, you know, I just need a few extra minutes, or just I can't, I'm not ready for the day I get a rollover and you go back to bed.
Speaker 2:If that's a pattern, and you're getting out of bed because you have to get out of bed, not because you know you want to get out of bed or because you don't necessarily have to be like bouncing out and, you know, excited to greet the day, like it doesn't have to be like that, but intentional in that you're taking a breath, you're feeling the feelings, you're greeting the day in a way that says, you know, I'm grateful to be alive, you know those little things. So, living life with intention, moving through life with intention, that is what yoga means to me. The fact that we're like chatting now and you're, you know, on the other side of the world having coffee or ja and having this conversation and being present for this conversation, that's yoga too. It's the intention, that's what yoga is that is beautiful.
Speaker 1:that is absolutely beautiful, and we will get into it more in a moment, but I was just sharing, before we, uh, press the record button, that one of my aha experiences so far being in Vietnam has been surrendering and really just doing things with intention, and so we didn't rehearse this.
Speaker 2:That was the first thing you said.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful, such a such connection and vibe. That's amazing. Okay, I love that you define what it means to you, and I'm not sure if that's the answer that most people would have given, which is the next question I have. So when you do a quick Google search, right, I was trying to prepare what people think about yoga or what are you know, and the things that came up were yoga stretching, yoga's, mobility, yoga's for active, fit people. So you described it as yoga being, you know, living with intention. So, in your opinion, what are some commonly believed myths about yoga?
Speaker 2:Oh man, okay. So yeah, like that Google search that anybody does, when you it's, it's so maddening, okay, like, let me just take a second and be like it really, oh, grinds my gears. It makes me so angry to see just yoga being so hyper-sexualized at this point. So, like, do a quick image search even. All you're seeing is booties For women or anyone who's presenting as a woman or femme presenting. It's all about the booty, the tits and just very scantily clad and very, very suggestive positions. Typically, and this is your sort of quick Google search, unless you're looking for something specific. Same thing with you know, with guys. It's very much a showcase of strength and like, flexibility, and these are wonderful things, these are wonderful qualities to have. It's not a bad thing.
Speaker 2:But when that's the first thing that pops up, it's the suggestive nature, right, it's basically taking this thousands of year old practice and turning into something that's what like here, you want me, you need me, oh baby, oh baby. Like it, just, it's so, so maddening. Like, yes, I went there, it's so, so maddening. Yes, it's maddening, sorry, no, but it's true, it's true, right and so like that. And what that does is it turns people off of the practice. Sometimes, for the people who are not looking for that, for the people who are looking for again a bit more of an. For the people who are not looking for that, for the people who are looking for again a bit more of an intentional practice, people who are healing from any kind of you know, capital T trauma, people who are just looking for a place to slow down, to reconnect to their body, to their breath, to their mind, when that's all they see. And if that's their introduction to yoga, it's so like it's a complete opposite and it's something that could absolutely turn people off of it. So, in terms of like mainstream yoga, at this point I feel as though there's so much of like a lip service being paid.
Speaker 2:If you do, like a quick search of any articles, you know what is yoga. What is yoga good for? Like the spot treatment. Like do this pose and it'll cure your high cholesterol or your high blood pressure. Like it's. It's really again, maddening is the word that comes to mind, because it's so reductive in nature when you're talking about it in that way, as opposed to really taking on this holistic approach, Like it doesn't have to be anything special.
Speaker 2:Right, this practice is something that anybody can do Like. You can do this laying in bed. You can do this as you're going for a walk. You can be intentional and, you know, be on a yoga mat. You can be outside on the grass, you can do this anywhere you want, right? You don't need anything special, you don't need fancy clothes. You don't need. You know, it's just something that you get to do, no matter where you are. It's connecting your body, something that you get to do no matter where you are. It's connecting your body, your breath and your mind, and that's it. It's so simple. Anybody can do it. So the fact that we're trying to separate it out into well, you have to be fit to do it, or you have to look a certain way to do it, or you have to have these things in order to do it, or you need blocks and bolsters. Those are great to have if you have them, but you can turn a pillow into a bolster.
Speaker 1:It's not something that only a select few people should have access to. I'm I'm redefining my relationship with yoga myself. I really appreciate the word intention that you said because it helped. It'll help me just go there, because for me, being, you know, background in rugby and then Muay Thai and always doing very aggressive sports and weightlifting it's been, it's, it's been one of those commitments that I go to yoga class every once in a while. I appreciate I actually like going, but then, yes, I actually end up going to where I have the bolsters and the hot yoga and then wearing my little outfits.
Speaker 1:And I have thought about that question when I'm obviously I'm the one that wrote it, obviously I'm the one that wrote it. And I realized one thing was the accessibility, because there are certain things that I was doing that seemed not it was so normal for me. But I remember trying to bring like my mom and she was like why? I don't know if I can do that. I'm like what do you mean? What do you mean that you can't do that? Because in my head I'm like well, just adjust with what your body's capable of doing. And then, but to your point of what people see and their perceptions and how it may turn them on or off, on a practice that's yeah, because it really does show us what our relationship with ourself is.
Speaker 2:That's part of the point of a yoga practice is being able to really examine that relationship with ourself, and it's a scary place for a lot of people to be. That's why we fancy it up with all the physical stuff. And you know I I must be really good because I practice at a certain place or wearing certain things with certain you know accoutrement, if you will, and so, like, we need that external sort of validation as opposed to you know practicing wherever you are and really examining that relationship with you. Know what the only thing I can do today is sit here and breathe and that's, that's enough. Sometimes it feels like it's not, and when we go down that route of comparison, when we go down that route of like where it's, it's guided by our ego as opposed to what we truly, truly need. That's when we run into issues.
Speaker 2:You know the number of people that have said to me I injured myself doing yoga. My question is how, like how did you injure yourself doing yoga? I mean, I know what happens, like I know what happens. I know it can happen If, especially if, you're not careful. But how does one get to the point where you're in a precarious maybe pose, or you're in like you know that you've reached your limit, but because the person next to you is going just a little bit further, or because you know to you it looks a little bit better, you're going to push yourself into a position that you know you can't sustain. Like what do you expect the outcome to be? So like?
Speaker 1:it really is a great practice in exploring our limits and the thing, too that just popped into my head is also when you're in a class environment. This is just true for any form of movement or fitness activity. When you're in a class, you do naturally have that competitive comparison, sure, whether you're trying to or not. But in this, in this case, I can think of situations where, if you have maybe not so aware instructors that are just trying to sort of make you do a pose that looks a certain way. So I've been in some classes where you know people go around to correct you, and I welcome it if it's something super gentle, but if they're just like it must look like this, and they might actually push you into something that is past your limit which is very interesting point that you just brought up, because it's supposed to be a practice of you pushing yourself to your limit.
Speaker 2:But then what do you do if it's an external person, literally just like hey girl, my favorite B word is boundaries, boundaries, and it's like like, honestly, and again, when, when I say when I say it's my favorite B word, it really is, because this is something that comes up time and time and time again over the course of every aspect of our life. So like if this is something we can practice in our physical sort of yoga practice, the awesome practice, and we're able to set boundaries with ourself and maintain those boundaries right, the best thing, the best way that we can show that we respect ourself, is by not crossing the boundaries that we've set for ourself. And so yoga takes this entire thing into consideration. It takes this entire practice and turns it into something that is a self-reflection that allows us to creatively express and explore. You know what our body needs, what our body wants, what our mind needs and wants. Sometimes we do the thing that we know we need, but not that we want to do, and that's usually a good thing.
Speaker 2:But that comes into play when we know what our boundaries are. For example, setting a boundary of I'm going to or intention. I should say In this case it would be an intention of I'm going to use my breath as my guide throughout the practice. So if I start breathing really shallowly or if I'm breathing really hard, I'm going to honor the fact that I've gone too far and I'm going to ease back so I can catch my breath, right, and like just noticing those little things I know with other sports. So, like I've done Taekwondo, you've done Muay Thai, you know I've done, you know I've played different sports, like I know what it means to go hard, like I know what it means to like train to the point where all you want to do is throw up, like I get that.
Speaker 2:But yoga is kind of the opposite. Right, it's basically the, it's the reset, it's the rebalance, it's okay. Well, you've gone hard and especially now, with the way most people live their lives, most of us are constantly spinning our wheels. You know, we don't know where we are half the time, because I have a meeting here and I have a meeting there and I need to work there and I need to drive the kids here and I need to like whatever it is we don't like it feels like our time isn't our own. So if you're setting an intentional practice, if you're saying, you know, I'm just going to practice for 10 minutes today, whatever that looks like whether that's just sitting there and breathing or in a child's pose on your mat for 10 minutes. That is an intention that should be honored because you need it. It's balance, right, it's that balance. It's that harmony. I should say I like the word harmony better than balance.
Speaker 1:I agree. Harmony sounds like it's something that's part of the journey, where balance is something you can't fully achieve because you're constantly striving towards it. Um, I love that. That's wonderful. Okay, we've shared, we're on a roll, so let's keep going. So we know, we understand some of the meaning behind, but just for our listeners that don't understand that this is thousands of years old what is the origin of yoga? If you can give us a history lesson and then we're going to pull it back into some modern stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure. So yoga in and of itself, in a nutshell, is over 3,500 years old, way way over. In a nutshell, is over 3,500 years old, way way over, and it's actually. It originated in what we would now call like Southeast Asia, right, so it's credited as being like an Indian practice, but that's not necessarily like it hasn't always been just an Indian practice.
Speaker 2:There's so many different influences in the way the practice of now, like our modern day yoga is known. There's so many different influences on it. So you know some one of the questions that I get asked a lot is is yoga a religion? And so just even even from that question, we start to see like there's a lot of, there's a lot of questions around that, but there's a lot of influence around that as well. So at this point, no, yoga is not necessarily a religion, but we can see that there are some religious influences on it. Some of the poses, the way the poses are named, it's actually named after certain gods or there's stories around certain poses and certain sequences in certain sequences. So from that front, there are some religious influences, but you do not need to be of a certain religion in order to actually practice. Practice yoga. It's something that's open to everyone.
Speaker 2:So if we look back to again over 3,500 years ago, we're looking into what is now known as like the Southeast, southeast Asia, even like elements of like China. You know, southeast Asia, even like elements of like China. You know like kind of wandering in there a little bit and then as we start to move through like closer to like modern day, we start to see like different additions. So it used to be a practice that was very like like the stories in yoga were told orally, like it was just, uh, it was passed down based on the stories. Right, there was nothing really written. And it's only in the last couple thousand years that we started to see a scholars actually writing things down and talking about the ethereal nature, the spiritual nature, the like you know, coming to terms with any sort of rituals and any process, the purification of the body, for example. What does that entail? And mantras and incantations and stuff like that that would be associated with the religious side of it. We're only starting to see that come in a couple thousand years ago and I say this, you know, a couple thousand, as if it's not that long, but it's been around for a while. Right, it has been around for a while, and so it was in the last I want to say about a thousand, less than a thousand years at this point where the way that we now practice and the way that is most commonly taught yoga is usually using Patanjali's Yoga Sutra.
Speaker 2:So, basically, this guy was credited with taking all of this information and putting it into a form that was a bit more digestible for, I'm not going to say the masses, but for most people. It took all of the stuff, all of the mantras, all of the rituals, all of the physical practice, all of those components from the different countries, from different types of practices, and turned it into something that we now consider yoga. And the main thing to note here is the way that yoga is most commonly taught at this point is using the Ashtanga version, and Ashtanga simply means eight limbs. Okay, so Ash, eight limbs, so Ashtanga means eight limbs.
Speaker 2:And so when we start to look at yoga as, or the practice of yoga as, something that is like a treat, right, you have your social codes of conduct, your yam niyam or your social codes of conduct, and then everything else kind of goes from there.
Speaker 2:You have, you know, your physical practice, your asana practice, your breath work, your pranayama, you have the ability to focus, the ability to meditate, the ability to withdraw from your senses, to turn that focus inward, this idea that we can attain bliss through meditation. So samadhi, that's oftentimes seen as the goal of a yoga practice. If you've ever heard in a yoga practice, find your bliss, or that's been a tagline for some studios find your bliss, or, like you know, that's been a tagline for for some studios. But samadhi in and of itself, like this, this feeling of bliss, of surrender, of like just, it's like the high, it's gonna sound so bad, it's like you know, like it's like orgasm, it's nothing we talked about that on here, describing a high of yoga to orgasm, as you were I like, I know I'm probably gonna get a lot of flack for saying something like this, but but so, basically, the thing is, you don't want to be living in a state of, like, perpetual orgasm.
Speaker 2:Right, that's an issue. Why is it okay? Or why is it, you know, described, you know, in a yoga practice, like where the goal is to attain bliss, right, like, why is that the case? That that's not so? It's. It's highs and lows. We only appreciate the highs when we have the lows.
Speaker 1:Well said. Actually, that made so much sense now that you just shared the comparison, because at the beginning I was like, well, that's just funny, but I don't know where you're going with this. And now I'm like oh yeah, no, I understand, I understand. So there is this. I don't remember. I was not prepared for this part of the conversation so I didn't research. But there is a condition. There's some girl I love her who can't stop having orgasms. There's a medical issue. She hates it because she can't function.
Speaker 2:It's all day long. That was also an episode of Grey's Anatomy.
Speaker 1:That's hilarious. So to bring it back to, yeah, so I I appreciate that it's. It's more again, I think it's connecting back to that intention where you were saying and how it's not an escapism but it's more being and it's. I think the word bliss as soon as you described I, what came to my head was toxic positivity, I think, the kind of it's your connect where it's like you can't have bliss but it doesn't mean that it's forever, because sometimes you're not in a bubble of joy like it is. It is like connecting with your body, especially through movement. Having been doing sports both of us sometimes you just have a release of emotion where you're just. You know your rage comes out or you're just sitting there crying, and that could very well happen. So maybe it's not bliss, but you were connected with your body and that's what presents itself.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely Like that's it, and I think that's what we need to talk about a little bit more, but also not beat it over the head, you know, like beat the nail over the head, because I find, in what happens with especially like a yoga practice is we try to divide the practice into okay, well, this is a somatic practice and this is a psychological practice, and this is a practice that if you want to release this, this and this, then you should do this and like, as soon as we start to separate it out, in that way, we're taking something that was whole and complete and turning it into something that we can now commercialize, and I think that's where I take a bit of issue with it as well. Why not present it as a whole practice and allow people to figure out what they need for themselves? No, presented in such a way that shows that allows for people to make their own sort of informed decision about what they actually need now is that we don't know what we don't know. So if all you've ever been exposed to is a very specific style and style in quotes here, specific style of yoga where the point is to go hard and if you didn't sweat, that wasn't a practice or it doesn't count. Then doing something that's the opposite might feel a little weird to begin with, but you might also feel really good, without knowing why. You feel good. Right, and it's, it's just, it's when.
Speaker 2:But when it's explained and when you start to see, oh, this is how it fits into, like the larger context of what a practice is truly meant to be, then you're like, okay, so I don't have to go hard all the time.
Speaker 2:Or you know, it might be the opposite Someone who's constantly used to not pushing themselves, and maybe they attend a practice for the first time where maybe they're put into challenging positions and they surprise themselves with what they're able to do. Right, it's allowing for that, the yin, the yang, like. It's allowing for that flow, that fluidity in motion, in expectation. Life is not meant to be lived rigidly. The beauty is in the fact that there are no straight lines in nature. There's no straight lines, and so being able to ebb and flow and move and surrender and find these little nooks of peace and bliss and movement and all of that is what makes this practice, this type of a lifestyle, so much more attainable, I think, and it allows people to just take a breath and slow down and actually live our life instead of just existing in it well said, well said.
Speaker 1:One thing okay, this is a two-part question kind of connect a few things you said. So, first, we know, you know it's, it's from southeast asia and it fuses together so many different histories and cultures and possibly even religious influences, right. So one thing that I've noticed as well and wanting to learn is that where something is sourced from like, for example, muay thai, it's from thailand, it's the, you know, and then, but everyone sort of has their own you know, uh, perception, or not even perception they add their own twist to it, right. So what?
Speaker 1:We're talking about a modern offering, some things that have happened you were mentioning for what people get out of it, and for some people it is, yeah, especially if they're experiencing something. It is an escapism, it is is something fun and joy. So we've seen, you know, a lot of new offerings that, like, I don't recall seeing before, but things like puppy yoga, goat yoga I remember seeing something about like beer run yoga, and you know we've involved these things that are cute and just social things integrated with yoga, and so I just kind of want to talk about that. I don't even have a question. So, like where?
Speaker 2:do you see?
Speaker 1:that fitting into the history and the intention conversation we're having.
Speaker 2:Okay. So here's the issue that I take with it. It's the intention piece for when there is. So when someone puts out like a, an offering, like puppy yoga or goat yoga or whatever yoga, so like, especially like the puppies and the goats, okay. So I have something else to say about the other stuff. But the puppies and the goats if you want to cuddle puppies, just say you want to cuddle puppies, right, like you don't like the intention behind a studio, putting something like that, that out and and attaching yoga to it.
Speaker 2:It's that commercialization of the practice and it's almost like diminishing the practice because of what you're associating it with. There is absolutely nothing wrong with cuddling puppies and wanting to hang out with goats and, like you know, just having some fun with that, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If that's what you want to do, go do that, right. But when it's put into the context of yoga because, like, we have a very specific idea in our head, especially in Western culture, about what yoga is supposed to be Okay and like, if and when we know that that's the, that's what most people think. Like, if I were to say, yoga, we're going to a yoga studio, you have, you automatically have some sort of perception in your brain about what you're you can expect. So if you're saying that we're going to a goat yoga class, your expectation is probably that you're going to do some sort of pose. You're going to do some, maybe sequence of poses, and then from there you know well, there's going to be goats kind of around.
Speaker 2:But have you ever tried to practice with, you know, a puppy around that hasn't really been trained? Have you tried to practice around goats? Like, have you lived your life around goats at all? Have you? You know, like, maybe a bit more of a relatable example is, if you have, you know, a little toddler and you're trying to practice, how much do you actually get done when the toddler is in the room, because they're constantly vying for your attention. You know, if you're the parent or the caregiver, your focus is completely not on your practice. Your focus is on what's going on. Are they safe? Oh, how cute. Oh, I wish I had my phone so that I could video that. Oh well, okay, I'm just going to. I don't want to take my eyes off of them.
Speaker 2:So it's, it's very like the distraction is the complete opposite of what the practice is trying to teach, right In whatever way. So in that sense I do take a bit of issue with that Like, just the like the commercialization element of it. It's really frustrating because they're charging an arm and a leg for these types of practices as well. Right, like you're going in for a class and in most cases you're paying upwards of like $30, $40 for like an hour session for these types of sort of quote unquote specialty classes. You're basically paying 40 bucks to cuddle puppies and goats, like go to a farm, I'm sure they'll love that. The other side, the other side with the beer yoga.
Speaker 2:So the other thing I was going to say is that with like beer yoga and with like anything like, um, like wine, any alcohol that just completely goes against the practice period, like alcohol and any sort of drugs are not supposed to be a part of this practice. So, like, why would you put the two together? The only explanation that really comes up is because I could make it back. So why would you do that? Like, the whole point of yoga practice is to connect to yourself and, as we know, typically with alcohol and drugs the point is to escape yourself or to numb parts of yourself. Like what are you running away from and why are you combining the two? That are just completely polar opposites, right? So like it's, and and you know I've I've often been asked, like you know why, like, why do you feel so strongly about this?
Speaker 2:It's just a drink, it's just like you know, and they're having it at the end of the practice. It's like a socialization thing. Fine, if that's what you want to do, that that's fine, right. If you want to do a practice and then you're going to have a drink afterwards, that's your prerogative. But don't put the two words together and sell it as a class Because, again, like, that's just so disrespectful of the actual practice itself and the fact that people don't understand why it's disrespectful. Like it's my life, I should be able to do what I want to do, and you know, like I don't tell you what you can cannot eat. So why are you telling me why you know what I can cannot drink?
Speaker 2:It's like there's there's a difference in terms of the nature of this type of substance. It alters our brain chemistry. It alters our brain chemistry. It alters our experiences, our perceptions, like anything. Like psychedelics do the exact same thing and you know some people would make the argument.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, there's ayahuasca ceremonies. That's completely different. That's not in the realm of traditional yoga. Those are sacred practices for something else right. And even then they're they're practiced in the presence of people who are qualified, who you know where this is, or should be anyways people who are qualified, where this is a part of their culture. There is a rich history behind it. There is, you know, people who have, who've hopefully dedicated a portion of their life to actually understanding what happens and how to make this a safe practice. And, like safety is paramount mental, physical, like all of that making sure that people are taken care of, working their care. So when you know I see beer yoga or wine yoga or yoga in a vineyard, you know it's all about having a drink. While you're, you're socializing like please don't disrespect the practice in that way. And just because you can make a buck doing something like that doesn't mean you should.
Speaker 1:Honestly, that's a very I love the passionate, and I know you're really passionate about it because obviously it's what you teach and the one thing that just I was listening intently and one thing that really has resonated with me was when you were saying the the, that there are two opposites. So like the whole practice of yoga is to be intentional, and then when you're having drugs or alcohol, it is kind of to escape. And that part, really, that makes sense. I hadn't thought of that part, um, because again, just kind of leading back to what yoga means to you, I can understand why you're so passionate about it. Because you're like, hey, what's your intention with this? Like why, why?
Speaker 1:and so that makes sense, absolutely makes sense. So it's like cool, let's go to happy hour and have a glass of wine at that restaurant and then go do your yoga, or vice versa. You don't have to combine them necessarily. When you were talking about the, but we're also speaking. So two part, we're talking about how this is a practice that anybody can do and it's accessible and it's like your intention, and yet also we are talking about the respect of the traditions and the cultures and what yoga actually is. And then so I guess the word that I'm going for is when we're saying that yoga is being appropriated. So would you say that like that's kind of you would use the words commercialized and we've used the words disrespectful, but is that also appropriation? Where would that fit in into this conversation where there is that balance between, or harmony, balance, harmony between how is universal and everyone can do it. But then what's that line where it becomes appropriating?
Speaker 2:That's a really great question. Actually, in the teacher trainings that I run, this is something that comes up a lot, this particular question, like I've had people asking well, you know I can't pronounce the names of certain things. Does that just mean that I shouldn't use them? If I try it, would that be like appropriation of you know, like the word, the concept, especially if I can't pronounce it correctly? I, in terms of like appropriation, I think the difference between appropriation and appreciation is intention and love, and I know it sounds really, it might sound really wishy-washy to some, but ultimately like the that I like to use is. We have different types of cuisines from all over the world. Like I myself, punjabi cuisine, if I make something like everyone's most workshops, if I didn't want to share what I loved with anyone, to share what I loved with anyone, right, and someone just took that recipe and made it their own and opened up like a samosa I don't know a samosa shop using my recipe without it being something that was actually shared with them. I know it sounds like a silly example. Stay with me here, right, that, in my opinion, might be sort here, right, that, in my opinion, might be sort of appropriation. That might be like, you know, they're taking something that I have created. They're taking, uh, you know, food that is part of my culture that maybe I hadn't actually shared with them and they're like they're, they're turning it into something commercial that they're making a ton of money off of. Okay, but I think the difference is, if I were to share a recipe with them, if I were to share, you know, my job, like the rest of the food that we're eating, we're making, it's not appropriation when there is an element of mutual respect and appreciation. Appropriate when there is an element of mutual respect and appreciation, you know, and if this person were to say this is really good, I need to share this with more people. How do we make this happen? And, oh, you know, let's open up a samosa shop. The outcome might be the same.
Speaker 2:The intention with which it was done is completely different. Right, and I think that's where the lines get blurred, because ultimately, you know, you can. I mean, I don't think people go into yoga thinking I'm going to become so rich, like I think I really don't think that's like that's the case, but like, ultimately, there is enough space for anybody who wants to take this practice and use this practice and embody this practice. To do so there is like there is that there, and this is why, again, like I said, those lines get blurred, because it is your own personal journey, for sure, but how you participate in that journey or how you know, each of us participates in that journey and the intention with which, within which, we participate is what basically sets the tone for the appropriation versus the appreciation. So another thing that I that I I bring up is things like um, like the, the external stuff. So, like you know, those models, like the, the prayer beads. You know those are never meant to be a fashion statement, they were never meant to be a fashion accessory. So if you are someone who is taking those prayer beads because, oh, it looks so beautiful and you're putting it on without actually understanding the cultural significance of those beads, that is appropriation, because you've not done your research and in a world where we have the ability to Google literally anything, that's not an excuse. Or have a conversation with someone, you might not see anything wrong with it, but someone where that is a part of their culture, where it is seen as a religious symbol, that might be seen as something that you probably shouldn't do as a faux pas.
Speaker 2:Another one is tattoos, and I don't know if you have any tattoos. This becomes a very heated discussion amongst some. Again, I'm not here to tell you what to do or what not to do, but if you are ever considering getting any form of a religious tattoo on your body, please do your research. Tattoo on your body please do your research. Please do your research, because the part of your body on which that tattoo is going to sit, like that, plays a role for one thing, but in most cultures and most religions, having anything religious tattooed on the body is a sign of disrespect because it's not meant to be captured on your average human, because that's that's what we are. We are average humans, right, like we're like. So to have, you know, like, uh, any sort of religious um, like you know, an om symbol or an ikonkar symbol or a khanda on someone's foot, for example, or on someone's butt or on, you know like, various other parts of the body, please, please, think about what you're doing and the message that you're sending across.
Speaker 2:Like I know someone personally who, like, had gone through a couple of different types of yoga teacher trainings, and you know I saw their life being impacted in a variety of different ways. They seemed like, every time they did a training, every time they came back from, like you know, a weekend of training, it was just. It was a renewed sense of okay, I feel a sense of purpose and I've learned so much, I feel like I've grown so much, I'm evolving, you know. So, on and so forth. And then at the end of it, they said to me like I got a tattoo and I said, oh cool, I didn't know what it was of, but I saw that it started like it was all sketched out and everything that started to fill it in. And it was this huge like. When I say huge, I mean huge tattoo of Ganesh on their thigh, like on the outside of their thigh, going up, and like around their glute.
Speaker 2:So like, why would you do that? So like? You know what I mean. Like, if you really think about it. Yes, it's just. You know it's just a depiction, shouldn't mean anything. You know we assign meaning to things, but why would you do that Like? In terms of like, what are you hoping to accomplish? Like, what are you like? Is it there because that was the only piece of real estate you have left on your body, or like what's the intention behind putting it on on your butt? You know, like so it just in cases like that, like I don't understand the need for tattooing something like that on your body. It's a beautiful tattoo, don't get me wrong. Like it's a beautiful tattoo, it's incredible. You know, it's very artistic, it's stunning. But again, what was the intention behind it? Why would you put it on a part of your body that you're going to sit on all the time? Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Yeah, again, with the intention. It's also up to interpretation, because someone can be like, hey, this is a way that I'm keeping something close to me and not necessarily think about the consequences of it is a different body parts. But in like in muay thai, for example, if you're getting every every there there's tattoos. You can get that. You don't just go get with a normal needle, like there's a whole, like ritual, there's a whole um, we can't just decide that I'm gonna get one and then, like you know, you have a month, there's a whole experience and there's an authentic like stick and poke style.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and yeah, I've had several friends get theirs and I I actually had this funny, you brought that up because I've been. I'm obviously in southeast asia right now um, very deep into muay thai culture and very much want to learn more and more about it. But I haven't gone yet because this is what I was exploring for myself. I'm trying to figure out what part of it, like, what does it mean to me before I go immediately to be like cool, mom, give me a tattoo. It's like okay, but I have to explore this a bit more and learn about it for myself.
Speaker 1:Um so that when I go there, I'm there with with the best respect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this isn't me saying don't get a tattoo, it's your body, you do whatever it is that you want to do. Just make sure that you have explored the intention behind that and that you understand the meaning of whatever it is that you're putting on your body and the cultural significance that it has with the people that you're potentially appropriating this symbol from. And so it's like there's that as well. Like that's a whole other conversation and again, like I, it's a conversation that comes up a lot in yoga teacher training. Just because, you know, we get to dive a little bit deeper into this type of conversation and I've had people legit ask like I have, you know, religious symbols on, dive a little bit deeper into this type of conversation, and I've had people legit ask like I have, you know, religious symbols on different parts of my body, Like should I get them removed? My response is always the same I can't tell you what to do. Like that's not my place, Like all I can speak to is what I know and my experience, and like that's it.
Speaker 2:However you choose to interpret that, that's on you, Okay, but maybe it is just a part of your journey. Like this is, it represents, you know a different place in your life. There is that and it might be, you know, a conversation, a conversation starter. There is that Some people have actually gone and gotten them removed and, again, that's a part of their journey. It's not on me to tell anyone how to live their life, but I do want to ask those questions in terms of what is that intention Like? Why are you doing what you're doing? Is it to signify something to someone? Is it to like? What are you hoping to accomplish? Right, and this is not like. I have nothing against tattoos, period, I think they're, they're pretty cool. But it's again, why, why, what's the significance to you? And and what is the intention behind why you're getting something like this done?
Speaker 1:you're getting something like this done. I'll stop to that intention, please. So to wrap up this thought and then moving on to the next theme, the one thing we talked a bit about the individual approach to appropriation. But previously, a few minutes ago, you were talking about commercialization. So would it be fair to summarize that if studios or if people are putting on yoga events that are mostly just to make a buck, that would be considered appropriation, but if there is actual intention with sharing the practice with love and respect, then it's not appropriation.
Speaker 2:It's really tricky. It's not really as clear cutcut as that, as much as I want it to be. It really it isn't right because, yay, capitalism, it's the parameters within which we live, right, and and like to be completely honest. You know, given the current state of the world, in some cases I can't even fault people for doing what they do, right, like you do what you got to do to survive, essentially. So, just that conversation around appropriation, appreciation and commercialization, especially with larger yoga studios where, like you can see that it really is just truly a business and the people are basically a barcode, that's like that's something that we can explore a little bit more. Like that feels a bit more inauthentic, and I'm using that word very, very loosely, and it doesn't mean that, you know, a large studio can't have the intention of wanting to help more people. And, you know, introduce more people to this practice, it's just the way in which it's done. And you know, introduce more people to this practice, it's just the way in which it's done, right? I know, especially like here in Ottawa and surrounding areas, yoga in a larger studio is relatively inaccessible for most people, right? And then that it speaks to a broader conversation around who are you trying to attract right. So, if we're looking at, you know who can actually afford to go right. So if we're looking at, you know who can actually afford to go, it's a very specific demographic that's able to go, and so when that's the case and when you know you're offering trainings and workshops that are catering specifically to that particular demographic, what else, like what's being perpetuated, is going to be potentially a watered down version of the traditional practice. So I don't know it's, and you know, charging, what's being charged. Again, I can't really fault anyone for that because of the parameters within which we live, like everyone is trying to get by at this point. But again, just some some thought and effort into exploring that a little bit more and actually acknowledging it, acknowledging the privilege that goes along with that.
Speaker 2:So, traditionally, when, when yoga was taught um, when yoga was, you know, was becoming something that was being taught a little bit more, as opposed to something that was done off to the side, it wasn't one teacher and many students. It was usually done as a bit of like an apprenticeship, where you had, you know, teacher and student or teacher and a few students right, the detail and the attention to detail, the attention to each student and being able to say, like you know, this is my student, I spent this many hours with them, they've learned from me. Your name's attached to that. It's very different from hey, I did my training at a studio and I got a certificate right, like it was a calling, a vocation back in the day, and that's something to think about as well, because that's not the case now. Every second person I talk to at this point has a yoga teacher training certificate, has done their yoga teacher training.
Speaker 2:I don't think that's a bad thing at all. I think it's really great that people are interested in learning more about this practice, but at the same time, not all practices or not all trainings are created equal. You know what's, what's the emphasis, what's the like, what are people actually getting out of it, and so, yeah, there's a lot of different pieces and a lot of different perspectives to take into consideration here. But just to sort of wrap up the point about commercialization and appropriation and versus the appreciation, it's not saying like big studios are all bad and it's not saying that little studios are all good or independent.
Speaker 2:You know yoga teachers are good, bad or anything in between. It's how does this fit into the collective. Ultimately, people will find each other. We will find the people that we need to have in our life. I'm a firm believer in that. So every single studio that is out there, every single yoga school that is out there, every single practice that is out there will attract the people that need it in that moment, and we just go from there that's such a honestly, it's such a sad thing to disagree.
Speaker 1:Shit about right. That's beautiful. That's a really beautiful thing you just said because we went from you know there, obviously I'm here to learn and I know most people want to know once. Well, most people don't want to. You know, actively appropriate, there's usually respect. But when you're saying that that it makes sense that someone always finds their place, and uh, no, that's, that's really beautiful. It's a good way to wrap it up.
Speaker 1:So we're gonna switch gears okay I'm gonna read your tagline for people that don't know what your tagline is. So learn to calm your shit so you can get shit done. We slow down to level up and I love that. And first of all, I just wanted to give you kudos to the language Because, as you know, I just launched a program called Level Up, so ha, yeah, I know, congratulations.
Speaker 1:Thank you. So that part is really like fascinating to me because our listeners have heard. You know your bio, which I'm going to reiterate because we've been talking for a while. So you're an anti-hustle culture and lover of life. An anti-hustle culture and lover of life. You're an avid traveler, taekwondo black belt jujitsu athlete, long-term scuba diver, yoga meditation instructor and educator, professor of international business management at algonquin college. A cookbook author we talked about samosas earlier. She has a book everybody and, uh yeah, the workshops. That's a lot, obviously. You're very well accomplished.
Speaker 1:You have a really impressive resume so we were talking about commercialization and capital, like being in capital society, and we're so used to hustle culture that when I just read your resume I'm like yeah, she worked hard for it, she must haveled, but yet it's the complete opposite to what you stand for that. Learn to calm your shit so you can get shit done. So, in your own words, how does one learn to calm down to get more done?
Speaker 2:It really is about not living in a state of panic all the time. So it really is that first part, it's that first part of not living in a state of overwhel panic all the time. Right, so it's. It really is that first part, is that first part of not living in a state of overwhelm all the time. And so it's like what what it comes down to is being able to live with intention and actually be mindful of how you're spending your time and like prioritizing the things that you want to prioritize and moving from there. I think that's what has allowed me to do the things that I get to do, and it's how I have phrased certain things as well in my life where it's not oh, I have to do X Y Z, it's I get to do X Y Z, I have to do, you know, x Y Z, it's, I get to do X Y Z. So that's.
Speaker 2:I think the main thing that I want to touch on there is it's not like thank you for saying that, you know, it's impressive. It really doesn't feel like that, you know. Most of the time, more than anything, it feels like, oh, you know it's, that's pretty, that's pretty cool. I got to do this and because of because of that, I was able to. You know, I had other opportunities afforded to me because I was intentional about how I was able to spend my time. It's not about it's not necessarily about taking on more than I can handle.
Speaker 2:All of the things that you said are pretty spaced out, right. Like I mean, I've been teaching in some capacity for over 12 years. I've you know the time, like you know, when I was doing Taekwondo, that feels like a long, long time ago. That was a part of my life and dedicated a part of my life to that. You know, any other sports that I played, that was, you know, something that I dedicated time to. And at this point, with yoga and with with teaching and doing the things that I get to do, it's a level of dedication. That I level of dedication, but also something that I get to play to my strengths with. And that's the other thing, right, calming our shit so that we can get shit done really speaks to like what are your strengths, and it's something I teach my students all the time. You know this, too, as an athlete, right, when you're at the end of it, we it's not about working on our weaknesses and forgetting about our strengths. It's about the game plan is how do I work my strengths to my advantage? Right, and it's the same with everything in life. So the stuff that you've listed off, again, thank you.
Speaker 2:But the stuff that you've listed off are all things that were not necessarily a massive challenge for me to do because I was so passionate about it. It was an outlet for creativity. It wasn't something that I had to dedicate hours and hours and hours and struggle through. It was something that I got to dedicate some hours to and have fun with it in the process, right. So that intention piece is also about having some fun with it as well.
Speaker 2:It was how I recharged more than anything as opposed to well, I have to struggle through it because it looks good on a resume. So I can guarantee you you talk to anybody chances are, if we start to look at the things that they have dedicated time to, that they are passionate about, the resume is equally as impressive. It's just we prioritize different things, we phrase things in a certain way and like we glorify the struggle for some reason. And just because we haven't struggled for it doesn't mean that it's not valid, right, for some reason? Or if just because we haven't struggled for something doesn't make it any less valid. So why not appreciate the things that come easily to us?
Speaker 1:I really appreciate that perspective and I'm just smiling because you're saying because, as you're describing, that it goes very full circle with how you open this conversation at the very beginning of our hour, about how, hey, I get to wake up. It's the attitude that you're seeing. The world has been those. That's not just words. You said about how that sounds good on a podcast because you can see it, and so that to me is like I was seeing it as more. Hence, you know our energies and why we're talking in the first place.
Speaker 1:We connected through, you know, authenticity, curiosity, and we, you know, both decided to dress up in inflatable that was so fun laughed so hard and because we're having fun and the the intention piece was genuine authenticity and just joy and just being like I wonder what would happen if and you're following your curiosity so you could be a woman of all traits, and it really just makes me happy because I feel the same. I agree. I agree fully because if you're following your curiosity and you just start adding random skill sets, you start to develop this like quote amazing resume, that that wasn't the intention. You weren't just trying to put stuff together to check off, to get a job. It's just hey, this seems like interesting. I'm gonna go down a warm hole of learning about this. So, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:I love that and I love that. Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 1:I love it and I'm giving myself that. That's part of the thing for me is that I'm intentionally working on my self-language and I have these conversations with people like yourself and with my clients, and then sometimes I have to myself, I'm like, why do you think you're going to have to constantly be like like you're not going to get stuck if you don't take a rest day or you know, chill you just of course not If you're staring at the same same with a writer's block sometimes. That's why, if you go do something completely random go for a walk, you know, go dance, and then you have an aha moment, then you can come back because you gave your brain room to breathe and an opportunity to see something from a different perspective. So beautiful.
Speaker 2:Yes, what's that saying? The saying is, when it's slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Something that I've tried to to incorporate in any sort of new skill that I'm learning as well, or anything that I'm trying out, is, you know. So, learn basics, go slow, do it, do it slowly, take your time and then, once it feels like it's something that you can smooth out, then it becomes faster and there's less, there's less error, which means that you're backtracking a lot less, which means that you're able to speed up a little bit more. And you know, eventually it gets to a point where you're just you're flowing. And isn't that kind of the goal to get into this flow state in life where you know you're attracting the right opportunities, you're attracting the right people, you're going at your own pace? It's never something that we can't really quite handle. We have our boundaries, we've set, you know, sort of our parameters for what we're looking for out of whatever experience and away we go Like it's slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and here we are.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's wonderful. Okay, so speaking of here we are and going places, I know that you offer at this moment in time in Ottawa, Canada. You often offer in-person classes. You also offer online, so everyone check out Taz's that. I've got information is in the show notes. You can check out what she offers. But the one I'm really pumped about that I see you posting is your upcoming workshop in Belize. Yeah, that sounds so much fun. Can you describe the experience of a retreat and how participants can get involved?
Speaker 2:Absolutely how participants can get involved, absolutely. So the way I typically run retreats is by allowing people to really take the time to explore and discover what they actually need. So my retreats are typically a lot less structured than most of the retreats that you'll find out there, because the idea really is to come back to yourself and explore exactly what it is that you need. So, for Belize, what, what's on the docket? If you will, there are, you know, a few excursions that we have planned, like snorkeling. We're going to be in this beautiful, beautiful space. There's yoga, there's meditation, like imagine being in a treehouse and just waking up to the sound of birds and and animals and you know water, and it's just, it's stunning, it's absolutely beautiful, and having you know the ability to practice and go at your own pace, like really breathing in that clean, clean air, that jungle air, like am I selling this enough? There's that Like, come, just come.
Speaker 2:But I limit it in terms terms of numbers, so I am a huge fan of doing things in smaller groups. So there are only five spots per week for this retreat. So the first week is taking place in a jungle tree house in San Ignacio and then the second week is a beach resort villa type deal and that is going to be at Hopkins Bay and the idea here is, while there is a yoga practice and a meditation practice every single day, breakfast and lunches are included. You don't have to worry about that. The idea is also to explore within the town itself. So it isn't like a, it's not a vacation per se. It really is set up as a bit more of an exploration right. So you get to know yourself, you get to create some bonds with the people that you're there with. We get to have some really great discussions.
Speaker 2:We have, you have the ability to you know if you just want to bring a book lay in a hammock, you want to go explore the town, even on your own? Whatever it is that you want to do, you have the option and the ability to do that. If you want something that's a little bit more structured, there is that in place as well for a few of the days that we're there. So I run retreats here locally as well, and the fascinating thing about these types of retreats is most people the first day don't quite know what to do with themselves. So, like they're aware of what the you know the itinerary for the weekend might be and I always say that this is always subject to change.
Speaker 2:A lot of it is optional. If you want to do something, great. You don't want to do something, that's fine, no explanation needed. But most people don't know what to do with themselves when they realize I have all this time and I don't have to cook, I don't have to clean, I don't have, you know, some kid who needs my. I say some kid. I don't have a child or children who need my. You know who need my attention. You know, like I don't have a partner who is asking for anything like it's it's just me like I can focus on me, what do I want to do?
Speaker 2:and that for so many people, like that first day is like holy shit. And it's this this question of and I ask this all the time is who are you when you're not wearing all those hats? Who are you when you can't describe yourself as a mom, as a sister, as a wife? Who are you? What do you want to do? What do you want out of your life? And that's a question that so many people have a really hard time answering. So the retreats that I offer are a chunk of time blocked off to really explore that question and to again come back to to self that's beautiful I.
Speaker 1:I relate to that even and I I admit you've seen me, you've seen me with conversation go like switch hats. I physically do this because that was part of the boundary. Thing I'm sad is that, and having the beautiful opportunity to have such vulnerable conversations with clients, a lot of people that are working with me aren't. They know me, so it's like in a different capacity. So I have learned to wear multiple hats. And then why I bring this up is the question you just said.
Speaker 1:And one day I was like literally sat there trying to answer this question myself and I was doing it with my therapist. My therapist challenged me and was like how are you gonna like to match yourself? And I thought about, I started naming things. If I said one time I'd pull up with that close to the gym it's also where I work out clients and then every time I said something, I, and then so yeah, that's when I started to, I started to go back to pull and I just did quite random drop-ins and I don't know what I'm doing. But that was exactly the reason, because then I would just have no, I'm not wearing any hats. And then I'm just I put on yeah, it's just me, and I put on music. I'm like I wonder what's going to happen, cause I don't know either. I'm going to find out. It's a little thing which is a. One thing led to another, and that's how we ended up in southeast asia. So that's a really all right really loaded question I like that.
Speaker 2:I like that a lot absolutely well.
Speaker 1:Check out the details in the show notes we've had. You've had some epic one-liners, you've had a lot of moments where I'm just, you know, clapping, and you've had some really good pieces of wisdom and like lots of takeaways. But if you had one more golden nugget to leave our listeners with, uh, my favorite one.
Speaker 2:Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent so long making it. That's right there, you're welcome.
Speaker 1:What a beautiful. Yeah, it goes back to that release and that opportunity. That opportunity again that everything presents is how you get to see the opportunity in front of you. We get to do it with the intention you're saying and being present. So thank you for being present with me over the past hour and a minute. It was wonderful and, yeah, the time, the time, we, the time kind of got away from me because we're deep in conversation. So that's a beautiful, beautiful connection we had. Thank you so much, oz, I appreciate you.
Speaker 2:You are the best. Thank you so much for having me on today and just connecting this was absolutely fantastic.
