The RTO Show "Let's talk Rent to Own"
Ever wondered how a $8.5 billion industry keeps millions of Americans lounging in style? Step into "The RTO Show Podcast" – where the mysterious world of Rent to Own furniture finally spills its secrets! Your host Pete Shau isn't just any industry veteran – he's spent 20 years in the trenches, collecting the kind of stories that'll make you laugh, gasp, and maybe even rethink everything you knew about that couch you're sitting on.
From wild customer tales to industry shake-ups that'll knock your rented socks off, Pete brings the seemingly mundane world of furniture financing to vibrant life. Warning: This isn't your typical business podcast – expect real talk, unexpected laughs, and "aha!" moments that'll have you looking at every lease agreement in a whole new light.
Whether you're an RTO pro who knows your depreciation schedules by heart, or you're just curious about how that fancy sectional ended up in your living room, Pete's got the inside scoop you never knew you needed. Tune in and discover why the furniture business is anything but boring!
The RTO Show "Let's talk Rent to Own"
Building a Legacy: How Showplace Rent-to-Own Stood the Test of Time
What does it take to build a sustainable rental business that thrives for over four decades? Gary Ferman, who recently stepped back after 44 years at the helm of Showplace Rent-to-Own, shares the wisdom earned from growing a single location into a 15-store operation across multiple states.
Gary's journey began in 1982 during economic hardship with interest rates at 18.5%. With remarkable candor, he reveals how determination and financial discipline propelled him forward despite challenging circumstances. "My wife drove a 1964 Mercury Comet station wagon in the 80s for nine years with no air conditioning, no automatic transmission," he recalls, illustrating the sacrifices made to reinvest in the business. This bootstrap mentality laid the foundation for sustainable growth.
The conversation explores Showplace's evolution, including its expansion to 25 locations before Gary made the strategic decision to sell 10 stores to Aaron's in 2003. This pivotal moment highlights one of his most valuable insights: discovering your operational "sweet spot." For Showplace, that meant about 125 employees—a size that allowed Gary to maintain personal relationships while ensuring quality operations. As he puts it, "Big was never as important to me as good."
Perhaps most compelling is Gary's approach to succession planning, as his son Keith now serves as president and majority owner. Rather than forcing a legacy, Gary supported his children's individual passions, creating space for Keith to naturally develop his leadership within the company. Their complementary strengths created a partnership reminiscent of Gary's relationship with his wife Marianne, who managed their cash advance business while he focused on RTO.
For aspiring entrepreneurs, Gary offers actionable advice drawn from Stephen Covey's principles: "Dream big, write it down, bust it into bite-sized pieces, keep the main thing the main thing." This methodical approach to goal-setting and prioritization forms the cornerstone of his success philosophy.
Ready to take your business journey further or just starting out? Subscribe to The RTO Show for more industry insights from pioneers who've shaped the rental landscape.
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Hello and welcome to the RTO Show. I'm your host, Pete Schauff, and today we have one of my personal favorites on Gary Ferman with Showplace, who has done just about everything in 44 years that you can think of. I think that Showplace has been open for now 44 years, so you've had Showplace open for a really really long time. 15 locations, correct.
Speaker 2:That's what we have currently.
Speaker 1:yes, oh my God, 15 locations. Gary, how are you doing today? How's everything going?
Speaker 2:Well, when you ask about doing this, obviously timing wise, it's right at the end of my career. I technically retired from day to day stuff at the end of February and so here we are in April. I've I've had some time outside since then so you know I haven't had a sport coat on in a while. There was there was a lot of forces trying to drag me to DC this year. I didn't end up going, but have certainly done that trip a lot of times. But yeah, things are good. I'm still helping Keith, my son, who's running the business a little bit, and I got some bucket list projects that I'm working on, some of it surrounding just just stuff that you put off when you're working really hard through your career, like gathering up your old videos and pictures and getting those organized.
Speaker 2:That's that's a bucket list project that I I'm about to start.
Speaker 1:So well, listen, I want you to know. You look pretty good for a guy that's retired. You look like you're sharp and ready to go to work right now. No, I hope the memory can stay good.
Speaker 2:You know I hit the big 7-0 this year and I hope the memory stays good, that's. It's never been very good, but I always just said it was because.
Speaker 1:I have a.
Speaker 2:I had a 40 gig job on a 20 gig hard drive.
Speaker 1:You know it's really funny. The other day I actually made that reference, but it wasn't. It wasn't quite like that, but you actually said it a lot better than I did. So the reason that I wanted to have you on, gary, is because you do have over four decades of experience.
Speaker 1:And there are people out there right now. You know they're looking at the economy, they're looking at what's going on, and I mean even people like myself. We want to get into the business more, we want to do more, but there's always that fear, especially before it's your first store or you're going into your second location. You're kind of like I don't know if I should go into it now, because there's probably a laundry list of reasons of because you should. You come up with the five great reasons. Well, I love this and I can do it better than anybody, and I know that if I had my own store I can make it happen. But then there's the other side of it and people going. Well, prices of products are going to go up, or at least we don't know if they're going to go up. There's a possibility that they're going to go up. It's a possibility. We don't know how long that's going to last, is it a really good time to open? We hear that taxes are going to get better. Then I hear taxes might be worse. We're not 100% sure.
Speaker 1:There's a little bit of turmoil in a lot of things that's going on. Not a ton of turmoil, but when there's a changeover in the presidency, one guy wants to do it differently than the other guy and there's that little bit of upset. Then guys like me and there's that little bit of upset, and then guys like me guys, that are the little guys going. I really want to get into this. I don't know if it's a great time. Gary, running Showplace for so many years, you have 15 locations. I mean, when is it really a great time to get in? Is there a great time? Is it you jump in with two feet and say, listen, no matter what happens, I'm going to make this work, or is there?
Speaker 2:a little bit of a tip that you can say you know what, If I knew this 40 years ago, I probably would have done this differently. Yeah, I think we have, unlike one of the other businesses I looked at and started doing originally, which was electronic retail, real low margins, cutting edge stuff. Guess wrong, go out of business. The one thing about rent to own is I think it's a margin business. It has a better margin, so there's more risk and more reward.
Speaker 2:But, for the hardworking, determined, don't need to live too big while you're young in the business type person. I don't really think there's a really bad time to do it. I don't, you know, if I you talked about expansion for starting owners. I think the time to expand should start off. The number one most important thing is when you have the people to do it, because I've done it both ways.
Speaker 2:I've done it when I had enough staff, enough quality staff to go forward, and I've also made that mistake and did it when I had finances and I knew what to buy and I had the facility but I didn't have anybody to run it and it runs badly for a while and you build a terrible reputation in a town with a customer base. So my biggest thing about starting is how determined are you and can you live pretty carefully for a while, or do you need a lot of cash? Personally, I'd say that's not a good way to start a rent-to-own business. You really need to be able to. I mean, my wife drove a 1964 Mercury Comet station wagon in the 80s for nine years with no air conditioning, no automatic a station wagon, mind you no automatic transmission three on three.
Speaker 2:That was the family vehicle in a Dodge Maxi van that was at a hundred thousand miles on it when I bought it was the delivery truck and we just didn't buy new vehicles. We didn't, we just hustled and didn't spend a dime hardly. And that's kind of how we started from nothing, you know. That's kind of how you have to start, I think, and people come with a lot higher expectations. I think it's harder to grow quickly, you know, and we grew pretty quick. We didn't grow initially. We did seven years in one location and then we started opening stores and got as high as a couple of dozen at one point and have been in 29 different towns. Got as high as a couple of dozen at one point and have been in 29 different towns. But we kind of we downsized at one point and got really to the sweet spot of where we were good at, which is that maybe 125 employees. That's a spot we're pretty good at and I think you've got to find your sweet spot. What are you good at?
Speaker 1:Well, hopefully it's better than what I'm doing right now. I I hope I'm really good at a podcasting. We'll see how it goes. The pay's not so great here, right, you never know. So there were more locations at Showplace and then you dialed it back. How many did you get up to? You said 26?.
Speaker 2:Well, at one time we had 25 open and running and also seven cash advance locations that my wife ran oh wow, and she did that business for about 10 years, mostly in the late 90s and early 2000s, and in 2003, I sold 10 stores to Aaron's just to dial back and get stronger. And we did. You know, we took some cash, paid off some debt, kept our best and Ken Butler and Charlie Loudermilk come up here to Marion Ohio on a small plane and sat down at my desk and we picked out the stores that they were going to take and I found that to be an honorable transaction. I was appreciative of Charlie and you know, just that was a good deal for both of us, I think.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm gonna tell you what. I recently had the opportunity to speak with Ken and let me tell you I really enjoyed that. It was an eye-opener, and he's still as sharp as ever tell you exactly what's on his mind. I love that part, especially running a podcast. I want people to be able to say what's on their mind and just go forward and be able to say this is what I think, this is what's going on, regardless of whether people agree or not. This is an opinionated situation, right. You get to speak your mind and say what you got to say and that's okay. It's all good in the world of rent to own this guy's. Even the mistakes that we make sometimes are learning tools to be able to go forward and make better decisions ahead, and he gave some great insight. One of the reasons why I wanted to speak with you because a lot of you know what I don't know. If you know this, gary, I'm going to pull back the veil, everybody that.
Speaker 1:I talk to mentions your name, believe it or not. Words of wisdom.
Speaker 1:Very nice. It started with Mike Tissot and I don't think there's a person that hasn't mentioned your name as far as people that they either look up to talk, to pull their experience and knowledge from you, know the things that you've done and try to work from that in the best way that they can. And I don't know if you know that, but I mean I would like to be the first to tell you. If you don't, you've been around a long time, I couldn't imagine. But if you don't, there are people that mention you all the time. You know I talk to Chaz Fodzik. I really appreciate Chad. He's got that one store still mentality, but he still runs it very well. He's still an entrepreneurial spirit where he gets stuff done outside a couple of other businesses that he has.
Speaker 1:Or whether you're talking to Mike Tissot, who's got his own rent to own, or you're talking to some other guys who have multiple people who help them own it, co-ownership or whatever. They all mentioned Gary at some point, some point in time, you know, just to let you know that, just to let you know that they're thinking about you. You know it's funny that you mentioned Keith, cause that was something that I wanted to talk to you about, because something that I've noticed, and you tell me if I'm wrong um, there are some people that in your position that would that have done it a long time they really appreciate the business, they've done a long time and they have the ability to sort of pass it along, hand down the reins to a family member or somebody who's, you know, been there, done that. They know what you've gone through, whether they're being the family or very close to the family. You know closely, like you know.
Speaker 1:For instance, you mentioned Charlie and Ken. That was like a dynamic duo at one point, right. So, but in in these, in these smaller companies, you know, you have the ability to kind of pass it down to somebody who who's related to you, somebody who enjoys the business and feels that same passion as you. Now Keith is is the current president of Showplace at this time, right.
Speaker 2:Yep and majority owner. Now he's been buying shares from his mother and I for quite a few years now he's doing the right thing.
Speaker 1:So what I've noticed, though, is that there are less errors than there used to be. There was a lot of pass down throughout these past 40 years. You know, when we talk about Tissot coming from his father, you going down to Keith, when we talk about John Cleek, to John Cleek Jr, those were some major things that happened, but I'm starting to see that that's slowing down. I don't see as many on that, for lack of a better term. The third tier it know it's coming down to the juniors, or it's coming down to the firstborns, or whatever the case is. You know, I know Carrico has his daughter involved, but that's a handful, and I don't see as many on the horizon. Why do you think that is? Why do you think that there's not as many as the third generation, as the first generation?
Speaker 2:generation as the first generation. Well, I think it's certainly. I think most successful business people. It's not their ideal dream that one of their children takes over their business. Might be some that have that dream, but I would say, for me, I wanted to be an advocate for my children.
Speaker 2:I wanted them to do what their dream was. If it happened to be mine, that might be some some good leverage for them, and I think it is for Keith. You know he learned at the, at the dinner table, a lot of what I did and what we do young. So he's got a leg up. But if he wanted to be a dentist or or, you know, like my older boys drive a semi as a commercial trucker most of his life, I'd have been happy for him, you know.
Speaker 2:So I really think that there may be a group that says, oh, I just want to pass it down to my kids, but I think there's a sizable group that says, no, I just want my kids to do what they love. Because I got to do what I love and so I happened to keep falling in love with it. My daughter did a great job for 10 years doing our marketing at one point right out of college and that was a good gig for her. But Keith really fell in love with the industry and he fits it good and he has a different set of strengths than I do. But I mean he got a lot of his strengths from his mother and I've got great admiration for my wife and his mother. I'm so grateful that he got some of her skills and some of her personality traits and so forth and some of her personality traits and so forth and that kind of made Keith and I, I think, a partnership that worked, like Marianne and I's partnership.
Speaker 2:You know I mean we offset each other with different strengths and it served Keith and I together for Showplace and he's been here now I don't know 15. He worked for Marianne in her cash advance business first and then he come on board as my buyer because I knew he was a good negotiator. I dealt with that when he was a child. Yeah, so I don't know about the ebb and flow of second and third generations. I guess I hadn't really thought seriously about that Second and third generations. I guess I hadn't really thought seriously about that. But I would say you know it. Probably there was an awful lot of the early guys that I worked with in this industry that were first. I mean, there was no previous generation in this business. You know the Norm Slattons, the Lowry Schraders. You know Irish traders. You know David Blevins, harvey Whitehead I wrote a couple of names down here so I wouldn't forget some of the people.
Speaker 2:You know that I really had a lot of respect for and learned so much from in the early days, my older group. You know Daryl Mike's dad and Ernie Llewellyn. You know that group was a trio that argued vehemently about details but respected each other, learned from each other. You know, and I think you know that that was then I moved into to learning from some other people you know, away from the order into the trip group. You know learning learning from David Blevins uh, showcase rent to own out of Huntsville, alabama, and Cynthia Baber Strunk, who had just lost her husband um, you know, pre Shannon, obviously, um and uh Slats and Larry Schrader and and Jim Sims and a bunch of old guys that were trip board members Harvey Harvey Whitehead, harvey's Neighborhood Rentals. That early 90s Trib Board was full of entrepreneurial spirit, first generation entrepreneurial spirit, and I think what you're finding in second and third generations is maybe there's some of that. Certainly I see it in some of the young folks today. You know Chris Jr.
Speaker 2:You know there's a lot of good entrepreneurial spirit out there and I think, Larry Carrico is blessed with a great team, including his daughter, but I think that's part of it is those original people. We were kind of plowing some new ground and I was learning from some that did their initial plowing. I kind of feel like I was semi-second generation, somewhere between first and second RTO generation people. Again, it's talked about a lot, Pete. I've heard you talk about it. I've heard a lot of other people talk about the camaraderie, the sharing that our industry has enjoyed for a long time. I look at learning that I learned that from Lowry and Slats and David Blevins and Cynthia Baberstrom. Those were the people, and Ernie and Daryl too Everybody.
Speaker 2:Though we might have bickered occasionally about details, we all were stretching each other and we were very open to helping each other and I think that I tried to copy that. I don't think I invented it, I think I tried to copy it. I tried to be open and honest. I've had a lot of industry friends since then that I enjoy and learned lots from. Maybe I hope I helped in some small way. If I harnessed something that I learned, I was always willing to share it, Sometimes probably to a fault. So they probably say shut up, Gary.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, talking about some industry first and some of the names that you mentioned, really, really great people that have done a lot for the industry. One thing that I've seen so Castle Rental and Pawns is one of them where they have a situation where they have the rental side and then they have the other side and it's a pawn right, so they're running out of the same building, kind of cut down the middle, and they do two different things. You mentioned this cash situation that your wife ran. Did you ever think that it would be a good idea to run them both out of or close to side by side and do that together? Are there places that you have done that?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, when, when she first started opening stores, uh the first one she opened was separate, but along the way we opened a couple um kiosks in our rent to own business and tried that for a while with, with some success I think the standalones did a little better for her and we tried movie tape rentals in the early days alongside our rent-to-owns things. We've ran carpet, we installed carpet, we sold carpet retail.
Speaker 2:The big part of the beginning of our business was putting up C-band 10-foot satellite dishes. That was a huge part of our hitting critical mass with cash flow and keeping our debt low was selling a new $2,500 satellite dish to customers in 83 and 84 and 85 and 86 and making five or 600 bucks on it and paying for that $600 Zenith or Sylvania television that I was going to rent to somebody for $16.99 a week or whatever. You know. I mean that business really helped us get going. So putting some things side by side, I think you know, has its utility and it may be necessary for a while.
Speaker 2:Ultimately, I do think becoming the place in your specific thing to go probably has advantages.
Speaker 1:So, because you know I was, I'm glad you said that because that was actually my next question Is the evolution of rent to own to bring on some of these side things and have them available, or do you think not having them in there and staying focused true, to just the rent to own part of it is where you think it should be.
Speaker 2:It's talent specific. If you've got an entrepreneur running a single location with a lot of desire and a lot of planning skills and knowledge, I think they can run multiple things out of one location. I think that's hard to do as a chain. Things that fit in as a product or service. That goes with rent to own really well, like when we first got into computers and that was such a new thing to rent. Some of those innovations and product changes I think will always be a valuable part of rent to own. But you know, as far as completely different industries trying to run a carpet store alongside a rent to own store, I don't think you know, that's not something you're going to do on a wide scale.
Speaker 2:That's something that a determined entrepreneur, probably with a very supportive husband or wife, it can get done, you know. But but it's I don't think it's something you're going to see Rack doing. I mean, rack's got some side gigs you know doing, you know financing and so forth. That's that's so close to the same model, just just employing somebody else to market for you.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And I think that's been valuable. Obviously for them. The stock market looks kind of ugly today but I got to tell you I like rack stock at the current price. I like it. I don't want to sell it, I want to buy more.
Speaker 1:And I have bought some more.
Speaker 2:But I think you get these opportunities rare and few times and and, uh, it's, it's the courage to know ebbs and flows come and go. Uh, don't get freaked out, you know. Keep moving forward. And back to your one of your original points was is now a time you could? I, we opened our first store in spring of 82. I mean, do you know what the economy was like in 80, 81, 82, 79, 80, 81, 82? I mean I was paying 18.5 interest on my house in those days. I opened a rent to own store, you know. So I mean, things were tough and there was layoffs. I worked at a factory but and I got. Things were tough and there was there was layoffs. I worked at a factory, um, but and I got laid off occasionally and it was pretty much a great dovetail when they didn't need me much anymore.
Speaker 1:It's about right when show plates really need full time, you know so in the expansion verse, right you, you open up some more stores. You, you realize that maybe shelling out some and parting ways with some of them were a good idea, because of whatever the case is, they're performing differently or they're too far to really be right on top of and make sure that they're growing. Whatever the case is, have you ever thought because then I see some of these, I see some companies doing like the expansion model of a franchise you ever thought about doing a franchise situation and what would be the consideration to do that, saying Showplace has got 15, but I'm going to franchise you because I've got this brand, I've been doing this a long time and if you have the entrepreneurial spirit, I have the name. Let's put that together and grow the company. Have you ever thought that that might be something in the future or maybe in the past that you've tried, that you didn't really want to go with?
Speaker 2:Well, I never really seriously considered being a franchisee of another rent-owned firm.
Speaker 2:But I have to say, probably in the mid-90s I wondered if I could pull off kind of what Trooper did maybe even pre-Trooper doing it that I like building systems and processes and that was probably my favorite part of the business was building systems and processes, repeatable things that could help. You know, we called it make it McDonald's simple. You know, do stuff that other people could repeat so that you could hire average people to do a really good job in this business. And so I did give that some consideration then and then I think I probably got you know, had a year or two where I got a dose of humility and thought I'm not as bright as I think I am.
Speaker 1:I better just take care of my own backyard, 'm not?
Speaker 2:as bright as I think I am. I better just take care of my own backyard.
Speaker 2:It's enough, and I think that's ultimately what I ended up figuring out that I just love being about 100 to 125 employees, knowing all of them, knowing a lot of their kids, most of their kids' names. That was my style and so, no, I really big was never as important or anywhere as near as important to me as good. I like being good first, and that was a challenge. All my career was trying to get better because we were good. We really didn't have any big down years. I mean, as far as I don't lose money any years on P&L. I got real close when I downsized. That's why I sold 10 stores, because we were close to having a money losing year and I thought I've overshot myself here. My competence level isn't where my needs are right now, so that's why we downsized.
Speaker 1:You know what? That's a pretty amazing statement, because I think some people, regardless of where they are, want to push for the stars and either they don't it's just not their niche, it's not what they can do, or they have to bring in somebody else to help them because their skill set is a little bit different than yours and some people can't admit that. You know, I can do it. I just got to figure this out. I've learned a long time ago that my ceiling is only so high. It might be higher than others, it's lower than some, and some of the things that I can do are some of the things that they can't do, and some of the things that they can do are just some of the things that I can't do. And sometimes, you know, you got to find that right dance partner to say you know what I, I, the reason that we're together, is because I need an Abbott to a Costello, I need a, you know, a Batman to a Robin, and we can't all do the same things, but together we can do it right, you know, and that's and that's important and it's you know them, you know their families, because didn't you guys just recently have an award show where I saw so many awards that were given out. I think there was a list of almost 12 to 15 awards where there was like the rookie of the year and the best operator of the year and somebody from home office, and it was one of those things like I really think that you know, you, you guys did it very well. You had the ability to kind of see everybody and talk to everybody, and there's this, this, this thing, like we're not giving awards away to everybody, but everybody's going to have that opportunity to stand up in front of everybody and just hey, this is something that I can recognize you for, you're doing a great job.
Speaker 1:It looked like Keith was taking the brunt of that. I don't know how much of it. I saw a little bit of you in there, but I saw him. I don't know how that worked, but I mean I know he's doing a great job, you know kind of passing that torch along to him and having him out there as the front person. I mean, of course he's obviously the president, so I know he's doing a great job, but I to see that and happening. But then I did have a question. So it was, it was show place and then it was R and R. Is that, uh? Are you guys doing that together as two companies that work together, or was it just because you know you guys have closeness? Is there, is there show places and an R and R that you guys own together?
Speaker 2:Well, um, again, I mentioned Slats and Lowry and a bunch of these guys. I can't leave out Larry Sutton as one of my mentors from early on, dear friend the godfather of Red Zone right.
Speaker 1:Is that where he got his name from?
Speaker 2:Yeah, in the really early days of ORDA we'd bring him in the reverend of RTO and have him fire up the troops and just always loved Larry's spirit. But of course Larry started the franchise, the R&R franchise, and you know him and David came and you know was trying to sell the idea for us to get into it. And I just knew at the time this happened six, seven, eight years ago I was late enough in my career that I didn't have the juice to want to add that extra thing. That was a whole bunch of new learning. I was excited by it. I wish I was 10 years younger, but I just told Keith, keith was with us then by then and had a vice president level position here.
Speaker 2:I just said, if if we're going to do this, you need to do it, you know, and I'll help a bit advice wise, but you kind of need to do it because I'm not going to learn the details and I you can't have in my mind, you can't have an owner without their hands dirty. You just it doesn't work very well very long, and so he needed to get his hands dirty and he wanted to do it. So he he bought some franchise rights and has opened a couple stores and I think he's got another one in the pipeline right now that they're working on the remodel in limo, ohio. Um, so, uh, um, it's, it's coming about, it's, it's coming about, it's it's. We do the admin for them, just like when Marianne run the Sunset Cash Advances, she directed the operations, the store operations, but we always did the payroll and the HR and the admin and just charged a fee for it. You know an intra company fee for it. You know intra-company fee. And that's what we're doing for Keith's R&R stores and we just said it's time for them to become a part of our annual customer appreciation event and that's why you saw them there this year and really the last couple of years, keith has fully directed that event. Him and the HR department have fully directed it.
Speaker 2:I mean I was actively engaged in it for 20-some years.
Speaker 2:I don't know when we started doing an actual customer appreciation day and closing the stores, but it's probably been 20-some years ago. And I got to say credit to some current peers I learned going to Mike Tissot's show along the way how creative and sincere a lot of the appreciations were from him and his dad to the countryside family and I learned some things from that that was very beneficial to me. I got a lot of current guys that I look back to Larry and Slats as heroes and Larry as heroes. But there's a lot of current guys that I have as heroes too, and Mike's certainly a hero of mine and Chris Bolan and Lynn Leach and these guys are real close friends in this business and I've learned so much from those guys. The camaraderie and sharing of this industry that everybody talks about is real and I just wanted to be a cog in that wheel. You know I don't take any paternity in it. I think it came from others, but I feel like I tried to be a cog in that wheel.
Speaker 1:Well, I think you have been. I'm going to tell you that I think you have been. I don't think you've enough yourself enough credit for that. I mean to say that you have somebody who, who under you, you know your son or whatever the case is, cause I don't you know. Sometimes I don't know. Sometimes we say you know, this is who they are and we don't want to put a title on that because I would love to say my daughter, eventually, is going to take over whatever I'm doing and all that. I just like to call her by who she is and let her make that decision.
Speaker 1:But I mean, come on, that's a great addition to the brand to say that there's an R&R also included in that, because it looks like everybody did a great job. It looks like everybody was enjoying being there. It looks like you've built not only the brand but you've built that culture and that family of those people that enjoy being there. That's part of it, that's a huge part of it and it's great to see that. It's great to see that Keith's being able to add on to that and kind of carry that torch along and then become his own entrepreneurial spirit, to kind of expand on his own different ways and how he wants to do that. And honestly, I really would love to say that my daughters are going to do that.
Speaker 1:Neither of the older ones really want to have anything to wear and to own. It's just not in their blood. Not that it's bad. My older one tried it for a little while and she said Dad, you know, hey, it was a great experience, but I don't know how you do it. It's just not for me, um, she's a little bit more of the four walls and the you know the type of business where she's just behind the desk and doing what she does, and maybe, maybe she'll come back a little bit later, I hope, but we'll see how that works, um. So we have those added on, um, and honestly, I think it's a great move because that's, you know, we were talking about the cash. The R&R is on there. You're getting everybody together, you've added these stores, but now, at the end of retirement, I see you wearing a jacket. It looks like you're going to work, have you really? You see you're saying that you're taking a step back.
Speaker 2:So after 44, years I got showplace on here, you know.
Speaker 1:There you go. That's what I'm talking about. So so here, here's my question. Is you've been doing this such a long time you finally decided to take a step back. Really two questions. Is what made you decide that this was a good time to finally go? I think I've done as much as I'm going to do. I'm going to take a step back. And then, what is a step back? You've done it for 44 years. What's a step back? I literally just got finished for 44 years. What's a step back? I literally just got finished talking to Ed Wynn 40 years and Ed's like I've done it all. I've done this, I've done that. I've helped open April, I've helped with the RDAs, I've gone to ledge cons, I've done everything and I'm sayonara. I'm good, I'm okay. He kind of keeps in touch a little bit, but he's OK with being able to step back because of what he's done. How did you come up with that idea? And what do you do now? What is a normal day to day for Gary?
Speaker 2:Well, here's honors to Edwin too. He's helped me a lot through the years. I just think that Keith's had the ability to run this company for some time. He's bright, he's hardworking and diligent. He's, he's bright, he's hardworking and diligent, and I really kind of feel like the momentum that that we've had here is strong enough that it doesn't need me. As we grew the business, as soon as I could teach somebody else how to do something and sustain something that I'd been doing, I tried to look for the next thing I ought to be doing and I think that's kind of what I'm doing now is Keith can do this, and I've got a couple of things that I want to do, some stuff on our land, some, you know, um, some some historic stuff for our family.
Speaker 2:Um, there's just some projects that I kind of want to work on and I think Keith Keith's got this, keith and and and Rick and Mike, the current group that kind of runs the, the, the show here at show place. Um, they're capable and, uh, they don't need me, um, and and he's not needy, um, I think, um, you know, he has his own ideas of what needs to be done, what's important. There's enough of them that line up that he and I've been pretty good at getting along as a father son, I mean. There's.
Speaker 2:There's things we debate on, you know, and it's probably uncomfortable for other people. You know we were pretty good at not doing a lot of that in front of other people, I think. But but you know, it's that's natural? I don't think that's unnatural. Most father and son or father and daughters or mother and son or mother and daughter combinations in business, I think, have to have some differences. You know, if there's enough love and respect, those don't last long. You get past them real quick, you know, and maybe you stretch each other. That's that's what I always thought about, daryl and Ernie and I in ORDA is that we debated a lot of things, but respectfully. We were never mean to each other. We just debated diligently, respectfully and learned from each other, and I think families can do that too.
Speaker 1:So I feel like once I finally get Dan Fisher locked in, we're going to have the same. I feel like you guys did you guys have a conversation ago. I listen to this my last year. This is it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I mean, you know Dan's worthy of mention. Terry Bevel was a dear friend of mine that worked for Slats. You know great industry helper glue that helped hold us together during some tough times. Think a lot of Carac, caracos and and you know, just there's just so many people in this industry that were so willing to help each other, so so grateful to have had this career in this industry.
Speaker 1:So then back to question number two. Now that we've decided, now that we've made those things and you feel comfortable about it, what is the normal day-to-day for Gary? How do we go from 44 years of really the grinding? I mean, you've got the first years of really just kind of getting your roots growing, growing up to stores, shrinking stores, opening R&Rs, passing the torch, making sure that your culture is there, making sure that you know the name of people. I mean, I do see the Showplace shirt on. I just want you to know.
Speaker 2:I do see the shirt on but what does a day now look like that? You've kind of stepped back from it all. Well, on the Showplace side, I'm still, probably responding to some peers, some vendors that don't know that I'm away yet. I mean, it's been pretty recent that I wasn't here all the time. So I'm still doing some emails and some voicemails and, you know, return calls. I'm still texting with my friends that are in the industry. We still have regular interaction, have regular interaction. I'd say you know, not a lot of time goes by that there isn't a half a dozen people that I interact with about some kind of rent own issue. Um, I, I'd say that's still part of it. Um, we own some of the properties that the show place stores are in. So we're still managing some real estate. Marianne, my wife really helps a lot with the details on that. They, mary, and my wife really helps a lot with the details on that. So that's related. We've got, you know, two homes.
Speaker 2:We really enjoy some time in Tennessee on the lake and I've I'm still there's a project still going on there to make that what we want, and and we've got five acres up here in Ohio and there's there's always work to do on that land and I really dearly enjoy that work. I really like being outside in the winter in the north. That's not one of my favorite times of the world. Is is just to have, you know, my chainsaw jeans on you know they got the holes in them from nipping them with a chain and and my log splitter out there and fire going on two different levels, burning up old rotten wood, trying to clean up the woods a little bit, the stuff that's laid down and you know, and just being outside all day in 20 degrees that's. You know I'm never cold at all. You know, maybe the first three minutes but pretty soon you work up that that that glow and and you're shedding stuff and you know, it's.
Speaker 2:I just love doing that. And then the summertime I I still like riding motorcycles and and uh, boating and uh, her and I bought new bikes this year, so that's that's going to be part of every summer. As long as we're still the window's open and we're still capable of doing it, we're visiting Yellowstone for some time this year.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, that's going to be nice.
Speaker 1:I can tell you right now I have tried the North thing. When we went up to LedgeCon there were a couple of times it hit in the 40s. Let me tell you, my blood has thinned out since I've been in Florida. I've been in Florida for about 35 years and let me tell you I could take the heat all day. The cold goes through me to my bones. It's not something that I enjoy going, seeing and then coming home.
Speaker 1:So I understand the need for wanting to be where you want to be, where, naturally, you just feel like you want to go. But, gary, this legacy that you have, the things that you've been able to accomplish and what you've done, the people that look up to you, I just want you to know we appreciate you in the rental industry. I appreciate you and I'm glad that you were able to come today and kind of just really sit down and talk to us a little bit. One thing that I wanted to get from you you do have a mind for this, whether it's been beaten into you through experience, whether you have that foresight or whether you have the people around you, like you've mentioned, that really help guide your decisions or give you the information for you to make educated decisions.
Speaker 1:What would you say to somebody who really wants to take over, become something on their own? They want to open up their own place, they want to get things? What is something, or a few things, that you would say you know what this is? Advice that is just you couldn't put a label on it and you couldn't put an amount on it. This is really that important in your eyes that you see, you should know this, try this, do this or think about this as you go into this opening up or trying to get several things, or becoming a partner. What would that be?
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know how I would have explained it before I had Stephen Covey as a mentor, but he helped me articulate it. You know, I'd call those seven habits of highly effective people one of the biggest impacts on my life ever Great book.
Speaker 1:Great book. If you haven't read it, guys, you have to read that book. An amazing book. I've done it twice and I still miss things. I've got to listen to it again. Paul Mativian and I were just talking about this at LegCon because I had read it years and years ago. And then he read, he re-recommended. I listened again and I still feel like I'm missing stuff and I'm going to have to do a third read pretty soon.
Speaker 2:So that. So that question and that advice from from that to articulate it is if you're that person that you're asking me about, that wants to, wants to go forward, and what's the best advice I could give them is dream big, write it down, busted into bite sized pieces, keep the main thing, the main thing. So prioritize and plan weekly. You know, get, get yourself a routine of planning so that those bite sized pieces, you know, do the hard work of of dreaming and and figuring out what it is that you got to get done, and and then ask yourself those coaching questions what should you do first? What's the most important thing? What should you do first? What's the most important thing? What should you do next? And and bust them into those bite-sized pieces and get, get a calendar in front of you, care, carry.
Speaker 2:You know I don't think you probably can't see this, maybe you can see this my Franklin planner has went on every motorcycle trip I've ever taken, to Seattle, to Napa, twice on our bikes. You know I have to have that with me. It is my hard drive and I spend time with it, still on Sunday evenings, planning out what needs to get done this week. And I'd say some people probably have the mental capacity to do that, you know, without writing it down. I see that in people that their recall and their ability to prioritize and organize can be done mentally much better than me. I've always needed to write it down and I knew it and I still think, even for those that are pretty good mentally, acuity at doing it without writing it down.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of added value in dreaming big, writing down that dream. You know that is the mission. That's your personal mission, right? Have a company mission If you're with a company, whether you work for somebody else or whether you're the man that owns it and the responsibility rests here. Have a mission and revise it when it needs. You know, think about it If it's out of date. You know and my mission statement got revised numerous times over my career I kept a personal mission statement since the early 80s and I still got one. And we kept a company mission statement. We revised it a few times along the way.
Speaker 2:I mean it's real simple right now, at Showplace, and I think Customer Appreciation Day is a big part of showing what our mission is and that's to be a really special place to shop and a really special place to work. And you know you can't have a special place to shop for customers. Be their favorite. You know their cheers bar, their favorite place to go spend money. That's what we wanted to be. We wanted the music to be on and the first name calling as soon as a customer hit the door and we wanted to hire people that got a kick out of doing that, building those relationships, and that that made this job better than other jobs, that even paid more money for them. So we were always looking for that fit, that perfect fit, to work in a store that could make it a cheers bar, and then we tried to do things to make it special for them.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate it. I'm going to start looking forward to that. I'm glad that somebody else finds Stephen Covey as great as I do. Talking to Paul about it has been my one thing. Josh Isecki those are a couple of guys that I go to for a lot of things and we talk about Stephen Covey all the time and the paradigms and the way you see things and how things should be seen from a lot of different point of views. But I can tell you right now I have a little bit more to go. I haven't quite gotten to where you're at yet. I've only been in the industry for about 20 years and I'm looking to do another 20. So hopefully at that point in time I'll be able to give somebody the advice that you've given me and pass that on, or at least say in my youth you can check out this podcast and see what somebody has to say. But I really appreciate you being with me today. I really appreciate you sharing some of the knowledge. I really like what Keith's doing. I'm glad that you were able to pass that down and I'm glad that you guys have that dynamic to be able to do it together for the years that you have and to see where it goes in the future and see how big it gets and see how well it goes. If you ever decide to do the franchise thing, you let me know and I want you guys to know. I appreciate you being with us today.
Speaker 1:Listen. Anytime that you guys have a question for Gary, please reach out to the show. You can reach us at Pete at the RTO show podcastcom. You can hit up our website. The same thing at wwwthertoshowpodcastcom. We're on Facebook, instagram, linkedin, now on YouTube. Make sure you subscribe and if there's anything that I can do, let me know. Gary, I really appreciate you being with us today. I appreciate your insights and more. I want you to know I'm going to miss you when I stop seeing you. I missed you at LedgeCon. I'm going to miss you, but I'm so glad that you're available and I plan on calling you soon on probably something that I have I'm stumped on. Everybody says, but Gary said so I'm going to call you every once in a while. I just want you to know.
Speaker 2:Anybody in this industry is always welcome. I. I value my relationships in the industry that'll never end and and what you do here to help others. Pete, is very valuable and I think a lot of people appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Well, I thank you and I appreciate it. Guys, thank you for being with us and I will tell you, as always, get your collections low to get your sales high.
