Legend: Dennis Shields of the TRIB Group

A handful of dealers pooled their leverage in 1983 and changed rent-to-own forever. That spark became TRIB, a buying group that now unites 198 member companies and negotiates real-world programs with the brands that power our showrooms. We sit down with executive director Dennis Shields to explore how the group won better warranties, moved policy start dates to first rental, and built distributor partnerships that keep product flowing when direct channels won’t.

Dennis walks us through the shifts that matter: why appliance warranties became a defining battleground, how TVs evolved from fragile tubes to reliable 4K panels that flipped service economics, and where smartphones quietly reset consumer expectations for everything from fridges to washers. We break down the post-pandemic container puzzle—unreliable lead times, futures pricing, and planning risk—and why many operators now pay a bit more to buy through distributors for speed and certainty. We also dig into the rise of gaming PCs, where spec-savvy consumers demand true performance and stores need vendors who can deliver GPUs, fast storage, and high-refresh displays on schedule.

Along the way, Dennis shares the habits that compound: pick vendors intentionally, communicate early, and guard your credit like an asset because it guards you back. We talk Meeting of the Minds, how small-room idea swaps grew into a flagship event, and why more vendors now show up in DC to advocate for the industry that fuels their own growth. If you’re building a smarter buying strategy, refining vendor relationships, or navigating the leap from store management to ownership, this conversation maps the playbook—and the pitfalls—of modern RTO.

Enjoyed the conversation? Follow the show, share it with a colleague, and leave a quick review so more RTO pros can find it. Got questions for TRIB or ideas for part two? Email Pete at the RTO Show Podcast.com and join the conversation.

APRO
Association of Progressive Rental Organizations

Chapters

• 0:00 Dennis Shields And TRIB Introduced
• 3:34 Founding Story And Early Buying Power
• 5:47 How TRIB Programs And Rebates Work
• 8:22 Overcoming Vendor Skepticism About RTO
• 12:24 Vendors That Leaned In And Those That Didn’t
• 15:19 Executive Leadership Timeline At TRIB
• 18:09 Dennis’s Path From Banking To RTO
• 21:09 Warranty Battles And Big Wins
• 24:09 Relationships, Advocates, And Policy Shifts
• 26:59 Product Evolution: TVs And Appliances
• 30:39 Phones As The Tech Tipping Point
• 33:09 Direct vs Distributor: Electronics Shift
• 36:24 The Container Era And Its Fallout
• 40:19 Why Distributors Matter More Now
• 43:04 Meeting Of The Minds: Origins And Purpose
• 45:59 Education, Sharing, And Marketing Change
• 48:39 Vendor Advocacy And Trips To DC
• 51:19 Products Tailored To RTO Needs
• 53:19 Gaming Rigs And The Savvy Consumer

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 1:11

I'm your host Peter. Today we are talking to another legend, a huge name in the business who's been doing this for absolutely years and years and years. But we're going to go to a different side a little bit. We're going to talk about the Trib side, the rental industry buying group with one of the people who's been doing it for, I don't know, almost the longest, I would imagine. Dennis, you've been doing this for a long time, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:32

Yeah, Pete I'm how I've actually been the executive director here at TRIB for uh 25 years now. Uh actually about 25 and a half. And realistically, right before that, as a buyer out there for one of the rent-owned companies, we were actually members of TRIB. And I served on the board of directors for four years prior to me taking the full-time job here. So yeah, I've been around TRIB a long, long time now.

SPEAKER_00: 1:58

So we say when we say a long time, we're talking about a long time. Dennis Shields from TRIB, 25 years. I I couldn't imagine all the things that you've seen since then. That's about the year 2000, right?

SPEAKER_01: 2:10

That was exactly right. I came here in uh May of 2000.

SPEAKER_00: 2:14

So talking about the rental industry buying group, this is something that's so important to what's going on right now. It doesn't play any bigger of a role than it does now, right? But what started that? When when we're talking about Dennis Shields, we're talking about Tribb, we're talking about years and years ago, there was a starting point. When did TRIP actually start?

SPEAKER_01: 2:32

Trib actually started back in 1983. And it started by a handful of rental dealers that was kind of friends in the industry, kind of got together and says, you know, we need to start pulling together instead of me with three or four stores, you with one store. Let's pull our resources together and put 20, 25 stores together and go out to the vendor community and see if we can get better deals or back-end money or rebates or whatever. So that's where we're starting from with just a small handful of dealers back in 1983.

SPEAKER_00: 3:10

So 1983, the buying power was a little bit different. Now we're how many, how many, I wouldn't say companies or how many locations, how many owners are a part of TRIP now that they changed a buying power from 25 to how many ever we have today?

SPEAKER_01: 3:25

We're sitting at 198 member companies right now. Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 3:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 3:30

So obviously they have anywhere from one store up to almost 100 stores, you know. So it's a wide range of uh membership out there.

SPEAKER_00: 3:43

So the membership now comes together and says instead of buying for one store or two store, the idea is we're gonna buy this in bulk for an industry, and then from there it goes out to the dealers that decide to buy.

SPEAKER_01: 3:56

Yeah, we don't actually do any of the buying here at Trill, Pete. What we do is set up programs with all the manufacturers or distributors or servicers across the country. So let's take a Whirlpool or a GE or an Ashley furniture. What we do is set up programs that may have special pricing, may have special terms, may have special minimums for orders. Most all of them have rebate programs that come back at the end of the year. So that's what we do here in between the membership and the vendors is putting those programs together. Then all of our members still buy directly from those manufacturers or distributors.

SPEAKER_00: 4:41

Okay. So you find out what it's necessary to get the deals and then kind of put the two together.

SPEAKER_01: 4:48

Exactly. And every vendor or every distributor out there has a hot button. You know, they may give us better terms or they may give us lower minimum ship to requirements than the normal retailers or other people out there. So you've got to figure out what those hot buttons are, and you just keep asking and asking and asking for more until they say no. And that's where you end up with a you know your program. And we go through this process every year with ever vendor.

SPEAKER_00: 5:18

So when we first started, when Tripp first started, 1983, we're gonna back it up a little bit. There were 25. We put that team together and they say, okay, we, you know, together we're going to make this buying group a little bit easier for the rent-owned industry. But I remember back in some of the stories that I've been told that back in 1983, kind of going forward, maybe to the early, even to the early 90s, that there were some vendors that just they weren't, they didn't understand what was going on at rent to own. They didn't understand what this niche was and how the customer that was available to them was different than the customers they had, and they were kind of reluctant to do business with rent-to-own. What were some of the the challenges and some of the hurdles that we needed to get over as a buying group back then to be able to use some of these name brands?

SPEAKER_01: 6:06

P, that's an ironic question because we still face that today with some suppliers. Oh yeah, yeah. Uh I mean, rent-town, we still buy the same product, we still buy those same washers and dryers and the TVs and the furniture that retailers do. But a lot of these upper management people from all of these companies, going all the way back to 83, 84, 85, early 90s, even up till today do not understand our mode of operation and rent a home. And some of them unfortunately still have a little bit of a distaste for our industry, which should be totally wrong because we're such a great industry out there. And we buy a lot of product. But yeah, we still face that today. So you have to just keep educating them over and over and over. And as a new personnel comes on at some of these big companies, here you start from the bottom, re-educating them again.

SPEAKER_00: 7:06

Do it again. So then let's turn it around. We did have some, you know, we we do face this as a group, as an industry. Trip is still facing this today, and we're 40 years later. What are some of the groups that came out of us? What are the some of the vendors that came out of us that actually maybe been a little bit slow to start, ended up being almost like the champions of the vendors today? Some of the higher end cream of the crop, like Ashley, for instance. Now, I know Ashley was very much on board since early on, but they emerged to be one of the people that we use probably the most. Um, and I wouldn't say the most, but they're always on the top of the list of the things that we buy, some of the you know all the furniture, you know, case goods and such. What are some of the other vendors that came out? You know, we said, Well, I'm not sure to, I'm all in. This we are part of Rent to Own.

SPEAKER_01: 7:57

Great question. You know, I'll kind of do this in two parts. Whirlpool came on board real early and was real supportive. They had a guy in the upper management that understood our industry, so they grasp it. On the other hand, now this goes back away because they're not around anymore, but RCA, they did not grasp our industry for a long, long time. And they they toyed with us, they played in our arena, but they never looked at us as a big, big player. I'll quote a thing from what Tim Shannon, who was at RCA Thompson for a long, long time back in the 90s. He says the rent-owned industry is just not big enough for us.

SPEAKER_00: 8:45

No, I mean we're knocking on, you know, nine, ten billion dollar industry. It's not big enough. That's that's terrible.

SPEAKER_01: 8:51

Exactly. That's the way we look at it, because we think we're, you know, we think we're a player. We uh so that was just two instances. And as things rolled along, of course, actually, as you said, they started out a much smaller company with the Wanix, and they sold us a lot of dinettes and occasional tables in the very early years, then as they progressed and started doing upholstery, then motion groups and nicer bedrooms. So they have really grown into the business and really grasped our business. They understood. They knew that their way of doing business was perfect for our industry. And it still is today. I mean, they warehouse, they shift quickly, so it's still very, very important. And that's why they are important to us because they understand it, they have the right product, and they have the logistics to back it up.

SPEAKER_00: 9:48

They probably have some of the best logistics in the business, regardless of whether it's retail or RTO. They I mean they they take care of it.

SPEAKER_01: 10:43

Well, Pete, I I'll I often say about Ashley, they are a great logistics company that just happens to sell furniture.

SPEAKER_00: 10:50

That's that's exactly right. I agree with you 100%. So going back to 83 and a few years around there, what were some of the first vendors that came on? Some of the first name brands that came on that said, you know what, we're gonna we're gonna do this with you.

SPEAKER_01: 11:02

Well, Whirlpool was one of the very first ones. Uh then GE came along. Ashley was not too far behind there. They were probably in the later 80s. They mostly went after the appliance guys early on in the ease back there. Zenith was another one, old name from the past, but they grasped our industry real, real early too, because they had a gentleman that understood our industry and kind of just took the bull by the horns for Zenith at the time and says, Hey, we're gonna make this work. So they were what probably one of the very first on the electronics side. And CE and the Whirlpools were on the appliance side.

SPEAKER_00: 11:45

So being an executive, as you're coming through and you're kind of telling us a little bit of history, where were some of the executives that came on before you?

SPEAKER_01: 11:52

Great question. Again, you know, we've been around now what 40 years, 42 years. When they first started, uh one of the founders kind of acted as the lead guy at TRIB for a year or two. Then they hired John Blair, a name that's a lot of people know in our industry. And John stayed around uh about 12 years as the executive director of TRIB. And uh he left to go on to pursue some other things, and uh I was actually on the board at the time he left, and we hired another gentleman to take his place. Didn't stay around long, about a year and a half, two years at the most, and uh he moved on. And that's when I came into the picture as the executive director and the board at the time I was actually off the board. I'd served my four years, I was off the board at the particular time there. And um, that's when the board chased me down a little bit and uh said, Hey, we need some help, and would you be interested in coming on board with us full time? So that's where the history started back in 2000.

SPEAKER_00: 12:53

Well, you know, to be honest, you'll tell back a little story is that I started uh RTO in the year 2000. And by the time I find out, you know, when you first start, you don't know what's going on. You know, you first come on, you gotta learn, you gotta train, you go through some positions. By the time that I had even known what anything was going on, you'd be the only person I've ever known of. What did you do before this? What was what was your getting into the RTO that kind of led you to be on the border trip and then led you to actually be the executive director? Like, what were some of your background traces that you know what, this is the guy that we want to run trip?

SPEAKER_01: 13:23

I started in this industry in 1986 uh when I was looking. Let me back up just a little bit to kind of tell you where this all started. Right out of college, I went to work for our little local community bank in North Georgia. Stayed there eight and a half years, was upper management at the bank, left the bank, uh, me and a partner, we did a couple things on our own, a couple other businesses. Did okay, had fun, enjoyed it. But it got to a point I thought, you know, it's time to kind of get back into the real world, the corporate world, and work for somebody. So this rent-down company was coming to Rome, Georgia to open a new store. So this head hunter that I was working with contacted me and said, Hey, would you be interested? I didn't know what in the squat RTO was or rent on was. So I had to do a quick education, did a couple of interviews, they liked me. So that started my career. They hired me, gave me a three-week crash course in managing a store and running a new store. So we were off and running in Rome, Georgia, with a new store there in 1986. Um so that started my career. I was acquired twice in the first two years, then landed, then landed with a company, then I stayed with them for 12 years before coming to trib here. So I actually been doing this, and I went from a store manager to a multi-unit manager to administrative in the home office to becoming the buyer of one of the bigger companies at the time.

SPEAKER_00: 15:00

So you've seen it all from the bottom to the top.

SPEAKER_01: 15:03

I've seen it all. I can sit here and talk hard closes and deliveries and everything as good as anybody.

SPEAKER_00: 15:08

That's right. Well, so going back that far, you know, we weren't initially in the mindset of some of the vendors. It was just an avenue that they went down. You know, some, as we'd already talked about, didn't really understand it, and some kind of went with it. As far as rent-to-own is concerned, because you do understand the other side of it, the operation side of it, we're a little bit different, right? Sometimes the warranties on those items are a little bit different because you're usually thinking this is one person. One person comes in or one family or whatever the case is, they come in, they buy it, it's theirs. This is a whole different situation. How has the warranties changed from back in the beginning to now to allow us to be the rent-to-owned industry that we are now and kind of service these as opposed to the warranties that back then? Has there been a lot of change?

SPEAKER_01: 15:57

There has been. And it has gone from okay to bad to really good, depending on the products. Pete, we've had vendors out there that would say, Yeah, we'll sell you the product, but there's no warranty on it because it's rent to own. And we say, now wait a minute, you know, hey, we own that product till the customer finishes paying out the contract. So we fought that battle for many, many years. And then kind of moving forward, the appliance industry, the standard warranty out there on GEs and whirlpools of the world is is one year. Well, we've been fortunate enough over several years ago to really convince them, hey, if they want to really step up into rent-the-own, they now offer a two-year warranty on all their appliances for the rent-to-own industry.

SPEAKER_00: 16:51

Which is huge for us because I mean it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01: 16:58

So we feel like we've accomplished a lot in that arena. And over on the furniture side, most of them now adhere to their regular warranties.

SPEAKER_00: 17:07

So what does it take? What does it take as an industry buying group, as an executive, to look at these things and go, you know what, they're not what we need. We need a little bit better. How does that process start? From going, you know what, we're looking at these warranties. We're a little, we're a little bit different in our industry. We need more, and then talking to whoever it might be and then getting it implemented. Are there certain steps that you take to get that done?

SPEAKER_01: 17:34

Well, you identify what you think we could use that would set us apart from somebody else. And the pink, the biggest hurdle there is finding an advocate on the other side that will go to bat for us. Because most of the time we're not talking to Todd Wanick, you know, the owner of Ashley or the president of North America at Whirlpool. We're talking to somebody in between, and probably two or three layers a lot of times.

SPEAKER_00: 18:03

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01: 18:04

So you've got to have that advocate on your side within these companies that will wave the flag for you and carry it up. So that goes back to relationships, and that's what's so important in this arena, in the rent-to-one in arena, is the relationships that we build with these vendors. And like I said earlier with hot points, you've got to figure out what the hot thing is that you can. You may not even get a two-year warranty, but you may can get, you know, warranties don't start till the product is sold. See, a lot of these vendors, they want to start the warranty when they invoice you for the product and it comes in your back door. It may sit there a month, two months, three months before you rent it to somebody, and you've lost, you know, three months of your warranty by just sitting in the back rooms. Stuff like that, and then educating them and saying, hey, let's start the warranty when it first goes out on rent. We've got POS systems that's great that can always show you when the first rental is. We can always prove those things. So it's different things from different vendors that you have to concentrate on.

SPEAKER_00: 19:19

You're so right. I can't tell you the amount of times in my history that we've come across that. You know, we're one year and it's like, no, it's it's it's only been you know 10 months since we've rented it. And it's like, no, we sent it out this date. It was new, it's in the box. Nobody touched it. And sometimes we come across those things and you and you never realize there's a backstory to that. And how do we get here? How do we get to fight for that? How do we change those rules and those regulations as pertaining to rent home? Because I mean, it it takes it takes a starting point, but it takes a time to say we've got to get beyond that.

SPEAKER_01: 19:53

Yeah. One thing about, I mean, just kind of another side note on all of that. While I've been in the industry, you know, now 39 years and been there, done that a lot, the support that we get from our board of directors and our committees that serve up under our board of members, because all of these people are operators, owners out there in the industry. So they're they're on the firing line all the time. So they see those needs probably quicker than I do sometimes, uh, sitting behind the desk. So that support of those directors and them suggesting things or coming up with ideas, and then going as a small group to try to work on these programs is that's so important. So we can't ever overlook our volunteers of our board and our committees that help transform Trib into what it is.

SPEAKER_00: 20:53

Well, that's the lifeline. I mean, it's it's it's the absolute lifeline. And I was taking a look a little bit before we started on some of the names that are on the board of directors, and you've got some heavy hitters on there. Um, guys that have been in the industry a very long time and have done a lot of great things. You know, some of the things I wanted to make sure that I understood is that there's this, there's a starting point and there's an evolution, and then there's where we are. And that doesn't usually come as easy as some people would think. There's some trials and tribulations that come along in the time frames of you know between 83 and now to say, you know what, we've we're not what we used to be. We have come across this and this and this, and this is where we are now. What what do you think is probably one of the most challenging product categories for rent to own that Trib has had to deal with within the last 20 years?

SPEAKER_01: 21:41

Good question. I think one of the biggest ones and the more important one has been the appliance industry and the warranties in the appliance industry. Then, of course, flipping over to the furniture, or not furniture, but the electronics, especially the TV category. I mean, we've seen that category change uh over many, many years from old tube TVs to projection TVs to, you know, you name it up to now to the nice flat panels that we have. So that industry has definitely changed. And as it changed, it has changed the dynamics of that business also. TVs used to break down a lot more than they did, especially in the old tubes and the projection TVs. Now flat panel TVs they don't break down much. So we've seen that TV business certainly change because of the new technology and pricing also, but basically the technology that's out there in TV. So that's that's probably been the biggest evolution of any product category. I mean appliances, yes, while they get better technology and some of the nicer, your opening price point washers and dryers are still pretty similar to what they were 40 years ago. So that has not evolved as much as the TV business.

SPEAKER_00: 23:11

I remember the tube TVs, and then we started going to the rear projections, and then they got a little smaller with the DLPs, and then uh somebody said, you know, plasma was a great idea, and we moved to plasma, and then uh the LCDs came out, and then the LED L C Ds came out, and now we've got hundred-inch TVs that are. I mean, it's crazy because the price of a rear projection TV now is almost the same as a hundred-inch L, you know, LED, LCD. You know, you've got this 4K TV that could pretty much do anything that you needed to do, stream, you know, basically any uh any football game, any game on TV, you can stream movies from what it used to be to what I remember we couldn't really get TVs that much. We had like two selections of TVs. It was like the TVs, and then we had the TVs and the huge consoles that were built in that we kind of delivered as well. So, you know, going back a little bit, but you know, talking about moving up the line and the differences not only in technology, but the sizes and stuff, how is how has technology made a difference in the world of Trib and the difference between the vendors and what we do now? There's a lot more technology involved. How has that affected how things have worked at Trib and our relationship with our vendors?

SPEAKER_01: 24:24

Pete, it all started changing. I mean, as these manufacturers started changing and adding more technology to it, but it all started with these little things right here. Phones are huge. Phones. So the technology in phones and the immediate gratification of using that phone and what have you. So all that technology there has just morphed over into the TV, the electronics, even the higher-end washers and dryers and refrigerators. I mean, holy cow, you can go on your phone now and see what's in your refrigerator that you might need to replace that when you're at the grocery store. So but it all started with phones, with Samsung, LG phones. And then that's what the younger consumer was used to. So that that technology from Samsung and LG phones back in the days has just brought the other categories up multiple multiple layers.

SPEAKER_00: 25:34

Was that what was that starting around uh 2010, 2013?

SPEAKER_01: 25:39

Oh, probably somewhere around there, 10, somewhere, 10, 12, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 25:44

So I mean, there's there's an obvious evolution that I couldn't even begin to to begin to understand. I mean, the differences and all the changes. Has our relationship with vendors changed throughout these last 40 years that have become to a point where on the other side that they decided rent to own, or they they were in rent to own, they decided they didn't want to be in rent to own. Where are some of the trepidations that they have? Why what do you think is causing them or some companies to say, I just don't think this is for us, this is not our direction?

SPEAKER_01: 26:22

You know, most of them has on the appliance side, most of those people have stayed pretty true to the rent to own and care about it and really buy into it. The electronic side, while we have great relationships with the product from LG and Samsung, we now don't have the great relationship with those companies at the top. They have elected to go away, and it's fine, it works perfectly. But that's why our distributor community has been so important now, because all the major electronics people, they don't really want to ship six TVs at a time, or even twelve TVs, or or one pallet at a time. They want to sell truckloads to people. So that's why the distributor community now, you know, such as CNL or Work or those guys, they've come into play now, and all of our electronics come from a distributor now. We don't have a direct program with any electronics company as far as shipping direct. That has changed. Twenty years ago, we still had Zenough at the time before they changed over to LG. They would still ship direct. Our CA before they sold off and went away, was still shipping direct. But I'm talking 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_00: 27:50

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 27:51

So all of that has changed. So that's why the distributor community is so important to our industry now.

SPEAKER_00: 27:57

So, you know, the I'm gonna call it the C word. The C word came up probably, oh God, I'm gonna say for me, about maybe six, seven years ago, and that was the container word. And there was a time when we did not talk about containers. It was just like, hey, we're gonna get this shipment, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do that. And uh, you know, I remember the first vendor I was talking to, and I don't remember the name of the vendor, I just remember the conversation. And they were like, well, you know, if you if you bought a container, we've got this price, and it's coming in. Now, of course, this was pre-teriff, this was before anything went crazy, but you know, they said the C-word, and I was like, container. I didn't even know that that was a possibility in the realm of rent to own at that particular point in time. And now it seems like that is a staple. That is something that comes up regularly in conversation that just wasn't up in conversation before. Do you want a container? If you're gonna, you know, and they ask, you know, do you have a warehouse if you're gonna, if you're gonna be doing a central distribution center where, you know, you take it there and then we'll have it shipped there, or you can whatever from the port, we'll have it checked out, send it there, and then you can distribute out because it's gonna be easier on the pricing. But you know, you have smaller companies that just can't do that. You know, you have these one to three store owners, they'd love to, but to take on in a container worth right now is just, you know, you're you're pre-planting for six, seven, eight, almost 12 months down the road with that much product. So it's not really gonna happen. How much did containers change the world of trib and you know, buying in these last few years?

SPEAKER_01: 29:23

Interesting enough, and like you, you know, what we never heard of the C-word for many, many, many, many years. It was out there because you know, people was buying containers for the big guys, but our community, it was never an option to us. And, you know, at some point in time it kind of became an option, and probably more so when furniture manufacturing over in Asia became more popular with motion furniture or bedrooms and what have you. So that's probably when the C-word really came about. And it was still a slow process. Like you said, if somebody had a warehouse, they they could do it. The biggest problem with containers then and more so now than it was because back in the earlier days with containers, yeah, you you got a price that was very favorable. And you could almost count on a delivery within a certain time frame because things were pretty consistent back then. They're not nowhere near consistent now.

SPEAKER_00: 30:31

No, they're not consistent now.

SPEAKER_01: 30:34

And and the other problem with containers, even for a guy that's got 10, 12, 15, 20 stores and got a warehouse, is the planning of handling containers. Because you've got to learn to keep a flow of those things coming in because you can't just order it this week and expect it two weeks from now. I mean, container business in the normal days was 90 days, roughly.

SPEAKER_00: 31:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 31:03

And now it's four, six, eight months. I mean, sometimes even worse than that. So the biggest hurdle in doing containers is the consistency of the flowing of the product.

SPEAKER_00: 31:17

Well, you know, I mean, when you're talking about six months out, something, and and a lot of times, and you know, the these the companies are selling on the futures, right? I'm selling you something that is gonna be here and it's not here now. I'm gonna say that something's gonna be here in six months, it's gonna be here in nine months. And in that time frame, in the political climate that we have today, it's possible to say, hold up, it hasn't made it in yet. This is something that we're changing. This port's closing, this tariff is from here, this this is happening on the waterways, you know, whether it be unfortunately, you know, going through the Panama Canal or whatever the case is politically, and it's just like, wait, hold. Hold on, and now your container is three, four more months out. The pricing has changed. It's a whole different world out there than it was before. Big time change. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 32:02

And all and all of that changed, you know, the political climate. But really back in the COVID years, that's where that really kind of got out of sync. Before that, it was pretty consistent. Then all of a sudden in the container business and the COVID years, it just got out of sync. And it's never come back.

SPEAKER_00: 32:26

Yeah. Yeah, well, I think it's it's changed the world. You know, that I mean, COVID has literally changed the world. And I would say rent to own before then, considering where I thought it was, and then afterwards, you know, like you said, the phone situation. There's a lot more ordering on the phone, there's a lot more online, there's a lot more online traffic, period, than there was beforehand. And it wasn't that, you know, the internet wasn't as important. It just wasn't happening. It was just back then, it was just more common to walk into a store and take a look. And now it's like, you know what? I've just gotten used to sitting on my sofa. I've gotten used to being involved in something, whether I'm at work, whether I'm busy at home taking care of the kids. I have this ability to kind of search three or four showrooms in the next 20 minutes without stepping foot in my car. And it's changed astronomically. So now you got to figure out well, you know, I've had the traffic for this sofa. Do I want to order this sofa that's six months out because the traffic for that sofa is the same as anybody else's uh, you know, basically you go online, you're like, hey, this sofa's hot. Well, I've got three other stores that think it's hot too, so they're putting the same orders in. So that changes the container time.

SPEAKER_01: 33:26

But you know, and the other thing on that too, P, you've got some of these distributors that's in the furniture business, they're buying those same products. The retail side. And on the retail side and for rental. So you say, yeah, this is a hot sofa. I want to buy a container full of those, and all of a sudden, yeah, I'm four months out before that container gets here. Yeah. Well, my competition down the road may be buying that same product from one of the distributors and got it on the floor way before you did because they had bought earlier. And so that's where the distributor container business really gets a little bit messy, I'd say. But we've kind of seen a flip here just in the last year, Pete, with people starting to depend on the distributors more in the furniture arena than they used to, because they can order it now, they know they have it next week. And they're not paying away. So they're being able to, you know, get that product just in time, keep the flow going. Yes, while you pay a little bit more through the distributors, you're paying for the convenience of it too. So we're seeing a less containers being ordered and more people buying through distributors on the furniture side now than we have in the past several years.

SPEAKER_00: 34:54

Talking about distributors, what's Tribb's relationship with the distributors? Has it always been the way it is now, or did that come into sync over a period of time?

SPEAKER_01: 35:03

Uh, for the most part, the distributor community came into play with us really about 20, 25 years ago, to be honest with you. Um as some of these electronics distributors started pushing their products into distributors versus shipping us direct. Of course, one of the appliance brands out there, Crosley, they've always been a distributor-focused company. So all their products come through distributors. So that distributor community has always been out there. Well, and what that distributor community started seeing as they were selling Crosley appliances to us, well, wait a minute, these guys also buy TVs, they buy furniture. So you started seeing them expanding their offers, which helped a whole lot because somebody now can buy from the distributor and buy a couple of appliances, a couple of living room suits, a bedroom suit, you know, what have you. So the distributors have really become a very important partner of ours.

SPEAKER_00: 36:15

I agree. I agree 100%. So talking about what we were came from to where we to, the idea of the vendors, the distributors, the evolution, the technology, what do you think got some of the vendors to understand that you know some people with either not favorable credit or no credit at the time went from a I don't know if that's what I want to do to that's an entire industry that I want to support? What made them change their mind throughout the years? And I know that Tribb has played always a big role in that, especially with some of the people that are on their board that I've seen that you know will advocate for the business. And John Blair is actually a huge part of this show. Actually, he's he's somebody that reached out early on, and I love him to death, a great supporter. But like, what do you think would was a turning point for some of them to go, you know what, we've put this out there as this is not as favorable as we think, to realizing if we help this industry grow, we will grow with this industry. Almost hand in hand, like you said, Ashley. I mean, it's one of those things where they started on early on, and look at where they are now. I mean, there's a showroom on every corner that you can see, every showroom that you go to, and it doesn't matter which vendor that you are, it doesn't matter which rent-to-owned dealer you are. Almost every rent-to-owned dealer has got a few Ashy sofas right when you walk in through the door. They've got their case goods, they've got their dining rooms, their bedroom sets. I'm not saying that they're the only brand, but I don't care which rent-to-owned store you go into, you're gonna see an Ashley product in there. In those situations, what made you think they went, you know what, this is this is gonna be a very sketchy call to let's feed them, let's feed the beast.

SPEAKER_01: 37:54

You know, Pete, it goes back to some of the people that was involved in Trip. Whether it be the, you know, John when he was an executive director here or on into my tenure here, as well as some of the board members just keep pounding on some of these vendors, and then these vendors starting to see success of their own are the success of some of their competition. And all of a sudden, you know, somebody wakes up and says, Well, gee whiz, we've got this little company down there, you know, in Southeast United States that's got 40 stores, and they're buying a lot of product at the end of the year. Maybe we need to start paying more attention to this. So it's just been an evolution of people seeing success. Whether it be internally, and then they say, Yeah, we gotta grow this better and bigger, or seeing competition growth. Interesting enough, and it still is somewhat, a lot of these vendors are pretty close friends. And they talk, so they kind of know what's going on and they feed off of each other. And that's one thing about this industry that's been pretty good is people sharing of things. You don't find that out there in the retail industry very much at all.

SPEAKER_00: 39:16

No. Well, speaking on that, I wanted to kind of shift gears just a little bit. Meeting of the minds is something that Trib puts on every single year, usually in February, correct?

SPEAKER_01: 39:25

Late February or early to mid-March, yes.

SPEAKER_00: 39:29

So Meeting of the Minds is a trib idea or a trib situation that comes apart every single year. It comes in annually. What is the idea that Tripp put this together and what was the thought process behind it for the rental industry?

SPEAKER_01: 39:42

Well, first and foremost, you know, it was Meeting of the Minds was a name that came up later in the years. We've always had our annual convention for TRIP, you know, from the very get-go almost. But the main focus back then was getting the vendors in front of the members with their product and talking about products. Well, as things grew, education became more important, seminars become more important. Then somewhere along the line in TRIB, we started having just some little small meetings of 20, 25, 30 people. We would come together for a day or day and a half just in a hotel room and sit and talk. Well, there's where meeting of the minds was born.

SPEAKER_00: 40:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 40:36

So then it just kind of evolved. Okay, instead of having two little separate meetings, let's bring this whole thing of our meeting of the minds, sharing of ideas, education all into the convention, and then it became trib, meeting of the minds, and annual buy fair.

SPEAKER_00: 40:56

Well, I love I love the idea having a lot of people come together and share their thoughts. You know, regardless of the situation, whether it be trib, whether it be the reasoning behind it, whether it's buying, whether it's sharing, whether it's understanding the industry, it all pushes us forward, and it's a great idea. I love the idea.

SPEAKER_01: 41:12

You know, Pete, having people in a room talking about what's going on in their stores or their company or in their area of the country is so valuable. We used to have a member, in fact, it was on our board for a long time. He was up in Tennessee, had a handful of stores, and one of his famous quotes, and I still use it a lot, he says, if you'll go to a meeting, keep your ears open and keep your eyes open. There's no way you can go back home and not benefit from the meeting you were just. Absolutely. You always pick up something while you're there. And that's why I don't understand sometimes us not getting more and more attendance at our meetings. I mean, because you can still teach an old dog new tricks in this industry, especially in the marketing arena. I mean, that has changed, as you know, so much in the past several years. Huge, huge. A lot of that stuff just goes over a lot of our heads, but we've got to adapt to that. So these meetings at Meeting of the Minds or at RTO World, that's where you pick up and learn what your friends are doing.

SPEAKER_00: 42:25

So coming through this, we have Meeting of the Minds now, right now. We, or at least we're calling it Meeting of the Minds. We've been doing this for years. We have Meeting of the Minds. When did the vendors start getting involved? I mean, there are times when you have vendors putting on their own meetings and they're they're kind of talking about their side of the fence and what happens, or their furniture, or their product that they're kind of you know talking about. They've also gone to DC as far as LedgeCon is concerned, where you know, APRO's getting together and they're advocating for the business. Like, you know, I don't know if that happens in other industries, but I can tell you that to seeing them on this side of the fence and going to DC and advocating for the business is huge. Where did that come from? When did the vendors start becoming those champions for rent to own? So long ago, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01: 43:10

Really? Probably several probably April has been going to DC, I don't know how many years, but a long, long time. In the earlier years, we didn't have vendors showing up in Washington. I mean, I can remember some of my earlier years when I was there, we didn't have any vendors supporting us. But it goes back to these relationships and people that are interested in our industry and grow in our industry, and they see the importance of it. So now that's why you see someone from Ashley's usually there. You see other people that's involved in our industry there, because a part of their business depends on the rent down business. So so that has really picked up, I'd say, just in the last few years, Pete.

SPEAKER_00: 44:00

I mean, I I've seen it. I've only been to LedgeCon these last couple years. So it's been something new for me, and I've seen some of the vendors going, and it's it to me, it's just shocking to see they're a part of it, you know. Again, going back, you know, the the years since you started being the executive director over there, it's it, you know, just that that correlation of where it's been and now how we've kind of come together as a unit to advocate for the RTO industry is pretty great. I would love to see more of this happening, you know, and kind of the thought processes of what we can do together, you know. Speaking about together and their involvement, is there anything that you can think of in the last, let's say, 40 years that was made or changed specifically for the rent-to-owned industry because of the standards that we have versus the retail standards?

SPEAKER_01: 44:52

I don't know, Pete, of anything that was outside of some audio product that was specifically built for our industry. I can't think of any on the TV side, TVs or TVs. I don't care if it was tube, you know, or projection or up to the now the big flat screen. Um appliances are not anything particular for our industry. But audio, yes, they were some things, you know, in the past that was built and I think still are a little bit uh built for our industry. And one of the newer things now, and I don't say it's built just for our industry, but it's become a huge part of our industry, and they build it to specs that people want is gaming computers.

SPEAKER_00: 45:47

Well, yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 45:48

Desktops. I mean so that's you know kind of two of the products that I see is adapted to the rent with our products.

SPEAKER_00: 45:59

I remember the idea when somebody first told me that they were gonna have these gaming computers. And I was like, okay, I've I've I'm used to the all-in-ones. And you know, before the all-in-ones, we had, you know, it did have a tower and had a separate monitor, but it came in as a system. It wasn't as customizable, it was nowhere near as strong as it is now. You know, when you're talking about the amount of specs that it has in it, the amount of memory, the processor, the ability to have a few gigs of memory versus 500 gigs of memory. I remember that you know that was a thing, and now it's a double and quadruple. You know, the speed, the NVMEs, uh, the size of the monitors have absolutely grown from. I remember, you know, you had a 15-inch or a 17-inch monitor, and a huge monitor was like a 19-inch monitor, and now it's like they come with standard with 27-inch monitors, or you have the wide ones that are you know like 32 inches wide, and you know, the video cards that can actually play something at 4K resolution and maybe a little bit higher, uh, depending on what you're playing and what you're gaming with. Some of the laptops that came out, you know, and said, uh, I mean, it's a laptop, right? Now it's like you got these 17-inch alienware laptops or MSI that come out and you're like, what is this? You know, and it's packed in this little shell, but I mean the computing power is ridiculous. Watching those come out, you know, from where it used to be to where it is, it's just amazing, you know. And ironically, use them, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 47:17

Yeah. Ironically, the our consumer that's coming in the stores for gaming computers, they know what they're doing too. Yeah, they want those heavily spec machines. I mean, so that's why people's got to buy those. I mean, that's built for that. Because the consumer, even in the rent-on store, they know what they're doing with that product.

SPEAKER_00: 47:38

Well, those AAA games, I mean, they're not, they're not easy. You're not just gonna stick that in anything and it's gonna play right. I mean, you it it takes a machine, it takes a rig to run it. And boy, you're right. If they walk into the store and you don't have the right one, they're gonna tell you, they'll almost educate you on what you don't have right.

SPEAKER_01: 47:52

You know, it's exactly they will. Sometimes they're as much more educated than our salespeople on the floor.

SPEAKER_00: 47:59

So for somebody that's coming into rent owned today, somebody that hasn't been in the rent owned for years and years and years, somebody that's coming in kind of on you know, in the last few years, what would you say to them about the necessity for our vendor relationship?

SPEAKER_01: 48:15

Somebody that's new to the our industry, or maybe not new to the industry, but somebody that's come up through the ranks, let's say, with a store manager, multiple store manager, and you know, put some money back, now got some money, and maybe parents are helping them, or got banks, you know, that's willing to help them, and can go open a store or two stores. The biggest thing I tell people in that scenario, pick the vendors you want to do business with, get your account set up with them, and there's two things that's important communication with that vendor of whatever is going on, and then taking care of your obligation.

SPEAKER_00: 48:58

Agreed.

SPEAKER_01: 49:00

Take care of your obligation. To quote something from back in the slats days, I picked this up at I guess it was one of the FRDA events, and we had a little golf outing, and it was sponsors on different holes, and slats had a sign still somewhere here in this office. I picked it up and brought it home. And it's saying on it, protect your credit because it will always protect you.

SPEAKER_00: 49:30

That isn't that is a very true statement.

SPEAKER_01: 49:32

Now, coming out of the banking industry, that meant a heck of a whole lot to me, but it carries over to our industry. You know, whether you're a consumer or whether you're an owner, paying vendors, take care of your credit, it'll take care of you as you move on into life. So that one stuck with me for a while.

SPEAKER_00: 49:53

Well, I would say words of wisdom, Dennis Shields. I really appreciate you being on the show today. I mean, understanding what TRIP does and understanding the relationships what the vendors have done for us, what we've done to get the vendors to understand our business, where we've come through and what we've been through in the last 40 years, 25 under you and executive director of Trip. How long are you gonna wait? Last last thing though, how long are you gonna do this, Dennis? I know there was a question out there. Somebody, somebody, you know, when is Dennis gonna, you know, decide that it's time? And I think Dennis was like, I'll I'll be here until the wheels fall off. When how long is it? How when do you when do we go how when can we say the era of Shields is is done?

SPEAKER_01: 50:32

Well, Pete, I don't know. There's no set timeline on that. I've been here 25 years, you know, as the executive rector and uh been in the industry now 39 years. I still think I'm about 55 years old. I'm much older than that, obviously. But you know, here's the there's no certain timeline, but the board and I for many, many years have had this kind of understanding, and there's there's three things in play. As long as the board wants me here, I'll continue serving. As long as my health is good, I will continue working, and as long as I'm still enjoying what I do.

SPEAKER_00: 51:07

That's huge.

SPEAKER_01: 51:08

We say if one of those three things changed, we have to take a step back and uh take a look at it. Talk about it. So but good friend Dan Fisher, who's now president of APRO and been on our board for many, many years. He was president of TRIP. Pete, he put me on a 10-year self-reviewing contract uh many, many years ago that renews every year. Uh of course it's a verbal contract, you know, it's not written. So so you know, just go figure it. Just keeps rolling over every year. So I don't know. I still enjoy it. I love what I do, I love the industry, I love the people. It's such a great industry and the people that's involved in it, whether you be on the dealer side, the member side, or whether you're on the vendor side. It's just a great, great industry and a great group of people. So still having fun, still enjoying it, and looking forward to being here for a while.

SPEAKER_00: 52:01

That's it. Well, that's great news because you've been doing it for a long time, and that's experience that we just we need, we need right now. Guys, I appreciate you. Dennis, I appreciate you being on here. Dennis Shields, the executive director of Trib Group, their rental industry buying group. Listen, so important. I'm so glad you guys have stayed with us today on our Legend series. If you have any questions, please hit me up. You're more than welcome to hit me up at Pete at the RTO Show Podcast.com. Just send me an email if you have a question for Trip. You're more than welcome to send it to me and I will pass it along. If anything, we'll have we'll have a part two. If you have a if you want to see what's going on with the RTO show, go online www.therto showpodcast.com, or you can hit up us up on social media. We got Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube where you're going to see this. I appreciate it as always. And I will tell you guys get your collections low and get your sales high. Have a great one.

SPEAKER_01: 52:50

Thanks, Pete.