Ep. 216 – Burnout, Boundaries, and the Mom-Lawyer Reality with Wendy Meadows

What happens when a family lawyer realizes litigation is no longer worth the cost?

In this episode, Ben talks with family law attorney, coach, and author Wendy Meadows about burnout, time management, motherhood, and why more women lawyers are choosing to build solo practices on their own terms.

Wendy shares how she stepped away from litigation, built a lean and highly intentional practice, and now helps other lawyers do the same. They also get into the real reason so many lawyers stay overwhelmed, why delegation feels so hard, and how to reclaim time before your work steals your life.

This is a conversation about law practice design, not just law practice survival.

In this episode:

•  Why Wendy walked away from litigation 
•  The emotional cost of family law trial work 
•  How solo lawyers can delegate without losing control 
•  Time management mistakes lawyers keep making 
•  Why “working hard” is not the same as building well 
•  Coaching women lawyers into solo practice and freedom 
•  AI tools Wendy actually uses in practice

🎧 Listen now on Apple Podcasts or Spotify

Ben Glass is a nationally recognized personal injury and long-term disability insurance attorney in Fairfax, VA. Since 2005, Ben Glass and Great Legal Marketing have been helping solo and small firm lawyers make more money, get more clients and still get home in time for dinner. We call this TheGLMTribe.com

What Makes The GLM Tribe Special?

In short, we are the only organization within the "business builder for lawyers" space that is led by two practicing lawyers. 

One thing we're sure you've noticed is that despite the variety of options within our space, no one else is mixing
the actual practice of law with business building in the way that we are.

There are no other organizations who understand the highs and lows of running a small law firm and are engaged in talking to real clients. That is what sets GLM apart from every other organization, and it is why we have had loyal members that have been with us for two-decades.

Transcript

When Litigation Feels Wrong

SPEAKER_03 0:00

I had two experiences. The first time I met opposing party was the wife, I was cross-examining her on the stand, right? And family law is very like it's squishy and it's emotional and it's we can really do a lot of good if we get everybody at the table. But in this case in particular, the first time I was talking to her, I was cross-examining her. And that felt gross. Like as a mother to mother, and I'm like cross-examining her on why did she buy these Tony Birch shoes? And why was the reading log not signed? And like all this crap, honestly. Like I feel like I was like judging someone else for their parenting and their decision making and everything else. And it's the more I become a parent, right, the older my kids get, I'm like, really? The reading log.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Welcome to the Renegade Lawyer Podcast, the show that challenges the way lawyers and professionals think about life, business, and success. Hosted by Ben Glass, attorney, entrepreneur, coach, and father of nine, this show is about more than just practicing law. For over 40 years, Ben has built a law firm that stands for something bigger. He's helped thousands of lawyers create practices that make good money, do meaningful work, still make it home for different. Each week, Bett brings you real conversations with guests who are challenging the status quo. Lawyers, doctors, entrepreneurs, thinkers, and builders. These are people creating bold careers and meaningful lives without burning out or selling out. If you're ready to stop playing small and start thinking like a renegade, you're in the right place. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Everyone, this is Ben, and welcome back to the Renegade Lawyer Podcast. I get to talk to some of the most interesting people inside and outside of legal. And today, really, it's great. I'm talking to Wendy Meadows. Wendy is an attorney, first of all, family law attorney, a mom, a coach, talks a lot to women lawyers. And before we went live, I'm like, I think this is the hardest, this is the most heroic job. Like being a mom and a lawyer, that's really, really hard work. And I think that, you know, somebody who's been in the profession for 42 years and watched a lot of my friends like do who are female lawyers do this really hard work. I think it's important that there's people in the world like you, Wendy, who can help walk them through this special, special niche. And also, you know, you've developed this real expertise in helping lawyers who want to maybe break away and start their own gig, start their own solo law practice. So thanks for carving out some time for us.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

Yeah, I'm excited to be here. Like you said, I love having interesting conversations with interesting people. So I think I'm in the right place.

A Mediation-First Family Law Model

SPEAKER_02 2:45

You're exactly in the right place. So you're running a law firm as a solo, and it's a family law, but as I learned about you, a sort of collaborative law, not, you know, when when we get calls here at Benglas Law and someone says, Hey, do you know a lawyer for a family law case? I'm like, is it a war? Are we papering the deal, or is it somewhere in the middle where we just want to need to work stuff out? Because that's three different referral lists. Um tell us first of all a little bit about the practice. Like, um, it's solo lawyer, but what sort of team do you have? And who's your avatar client? Who do you like to see calling you up or walking in the door?

unknown 3:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

Yeah. So um the practice, like you said, I no longer litigate, right? Which is amazing. Uh I primarily mediate. So I primarily the the bread and butter of my practice is mediation. So that's um mom, dad, husband, wife, spouse, spouse, parent, parent, whoever lands in my lap and I'm mediating their case, mediating their case to resolution. Um, so I do that. I do some prenups and postnups, like any like contracty kind of stuff where we've all pretty much agreed on the terms and I'm just a scribe and or uh collaborative law, like you said. I still do some collaborative, and I'm only in the courtroom if I represent the child. So that's the only litigation I will touch. If I'm appointed by the court to represent the child, I will be in court that way. And I like that because that has me with my finger on the pulse of what's actually happening amongst litigating attorneys and in front of like the bench as well. But my team, we're lean. Oh, you had a question.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

No, it's a good idea. I was gonna ask you about the team setup. What's the formation?

SPEAKER_03 4:25

We're lean and mean. So it's me and it I have an associate who not, I'm lying to you. I have an assistant who works tw about 20, 25 hours a week. And she is in charge of all of my calendaring. I do not touch my calendar. She's in charge of flow. She's in charge of intake, she's in charge of everything I can give her and keep giving her. So basically I get to just stay in my zone of genius where I'm either meeting with people or drafting, but I'm not doing any other admin work other than money because I I have not given away the money stuff yet. That and that's on my list for this year. My list for this year is bookkeeper, which I have some feelings about. And my on my list is also I need to get out of the way of drafting documents. So I need to I'm hiring a I'm calling it a scribe. I need to hire a scribe or a drafting person this year as well.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

Yeah, so we never give away all of the money or get out of it completely. Bookkeeper is fine. Having checks and balances 100% necessary. Is your assistant uh live on in person in in the office? If you have an office or or is it someone?

SPEAKER_03 5:34

So I have an office.

unknown 5:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

I have a bricks and mortar office about 10 minutes from my house house. Um I say that because I'm living in two different places right now. And she I told her when she first signed on, I'm like, I don't care what you do. Like your hours are your hours so long as you get your work done. And she prefers being in the office. So she's in the office, I say four out of five four out of the five days a week.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

How long have you two been working together?

SPEAKER_03 5:59

Three years.

Delegation That Buys Back Time

SPEAKER_02 6:00

So so one of the things that lawyers have a challenge with, and you know this from your coaching, is letting go of the vine, right? And getting people in. And you use a phrase zone of genius, which is I I don't know if if you got it from Dan Sullivan and strategic coach, but it's a phrase he uses a lot. Um but lawyers have a hard time um discovering and giving themselves permission to work only in their zone of genius and then give other stuff out to other people. So if you can go back three years, I think people would be curious on how you um found this assistant, um vetted and then onboarded. And then what's change over three? It's like what has she gotten better at, or what more things have you unloaded onto her?

SPEAKER_03 6:49

Right. That now my brain also has to take this three-year journey back, which is harder than you would think, right? Because we get used to like what we don't know anymore. And I sort of one of the things I don't want to forget to say, but I liken all of this to Instacart. Like, so many people like don't want to do Instacart for their groceries because they need to pick out their exact piece of chicken and they need to pick out their exact cauliflower and apples. And I'm like, guys, as I I try and have people at Instacart all the time just to you know, buy them back time and money. I actually spend less money on Instacart. Um, but like we don't really need to know about our chicken or cauliflower apples. Like, once you get used to it being delivered to you, who cares? Like it really doesn't matter, you know. So just like people got used to Instacart during COVID, you're like, okay, this is the next, this is the next level here. Uh so beforehand, I was probably still doing a lot of my calendaring. And I would give her some, like when I didn't want to figure it out. And now I I just shove, we just know everything is shoved to her. And I know I talk to attorneys to be like, I could never give away my calendar. I'm like, what otherwise you're spending two, like literally, I'd be spending two hours a day, like trying to just ping pong people for figuring out meetings, right? Because I'm always meeting with two people at a time or four people at a time. Like it's a pain in the butt. Um, and she's gotten really good at two. It's just like knowing my brain. Um, you know, like I can just forward her an email, she knows what to do with it without me having to tell her what to do. Um, trying to think what else she does. Like, she's not gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

Is she inside your email? Does she manage your email at all?

SPEAKER_03 8:20

No, she's not inside my email. Um, that still would make me a little bit nervous, but I see seeing her on pretty much everything. And we do have some tools set up. Like, for example, I use um several things. I need I want her to know the information as well. So we have the tools set up so it automatically forwards to her and she gets it without me having to remember to forward to her as well. Um I'd still in charge of my email. She she's she makes my Clio tasks for me, right? Anything that like I don't she yeah, don't want to do, I give to her. So she makes it like, hey, can you do a task for this? Can you do a task for that? Yes. Hey, can you um what's another one I just gave over to her? It's like all the silly, it really it's all the silly stuff I don't want to do.

The Solo Lawyer Growth Dilemma

SPEAKER_02 9:00

Well, it's so it's cool because um, you know, with with litigation, with litigation practice out of the way, except for uh representing the children. So pretty much now your schedule is your own and not some judge or some court schedule like imposing itself on you. A lot of times, though, when the lawyers will say to me, but I I don't want to give up the control of the calendar because what if? Dot, dot, dot. And I'm like, well, this the easy solve to that is you gotta attack the calendar first and block those times. So for example, Fridays, I'm not in the office and nothing gets scheduled. Doesn't mean I'm not working, doesn't mean I'm not producing stuff, but there's no meetings, there's no um, well, meetings, zoom calls, uh, podcasts, or anything on Friday. And I don't come into the office now, buying back, you know, probably at least an hour of transition transferring time. Um, and so that's the solution for those of you listening to this. Like you you have to go and aggressively punch out the stuff that becomes non uh violatable, right? Inviolable. Like you it just like if you had a trial, like no one could be scheduling above that. Um, and you could get to um emails. There's a certain level of, I mean, there's a lot of us who who've delegated the um assigning, the screening, and the uh elimination of junk, right? Um, from our from our email box with our executive assistants. So that's that's possible, but again, everybody has sort of a different comfort level with that. Um so that's cool. So just law firm-wise, what does this look like in a couple of years? I mean, uh, is your firm built so you're like, no, this is really cool. I like it a lot. I don't want to mess it up. I don't want anyone to coach me into messing it up or growing or scaling or any of this stuff. And I'm good. Like I'm really good. Or is it like, yeah, you know what? It would be great one day to, I don't know, have two lawyers.

SPEAKER_03 11:03

Right. This is my existential crisis that I think I'm currently living in now. Because truth be told, I'm I'm really happy being a solo. Like I love being a solo. I love not having to run like ideas by somebody or decisions. I ideas are great to run by somebody. I don't like running decisions by anybody else. I like to be able to do what I want to do. I can control it, I can see it. And it's like this might be a control issue though, as well, like you know, the Instacart. But I'm also recognizing, like, I'm I'm tapping out right now, right? Like I am, I can't work any harder than I'm working now. I can't work, or I choose not to work more hours than I'm working now. And if I want this business to generate more revenue, I'm gonna have to figure out different ways to make that happen. Uh, so if I hired any, so what I'm toying with as we are speaking is in looking at what my love for the family law profession is, is I think we need more good mediators who draft good agreements. So there's about, there's several of us in the state that that do this work that primarily mediate and no longer litigate. And I'm gonna give myself a pat on the back and say I'm one of the best mediators. And I say that because I I have a lot of clients that tell me so. And looking at a lot of the agreements that are being generated from all these different mediation people, I think the agreements I draft are the best. So I'm like, okay, if I don't want to see these crappy agreements being drafted that have no teeth and don't actually say anything, what if it's I'm teaching, like I'm not growing my law firm like you would think as in like associates and things, but I'm growing a law firm or a firm of mediators and I'm growing in that way. So that's something I've been wrestling with lately. Also, as my children are getting older, one of the reasons I really loved being a solo when I first went out, my kids were four and six. I'm like, I don't have the time to mentor anybody. People who need my mentoring are my children. I need to be a mother. Like that is where my mentoring energy needed to go. But now my son is 14 and he's off to the races in terms of what he wants to do with his life.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 13:01

My daughter is 12, so I can speak nothing good, right? Everything I say is terrible. Like she doesn't want to spend time with me, everything else. And even though I need to be around, I do have time to mentor in a way I didn't for a long time. So that's why I think there's a shift now where I was like, absolutely not before, to like, maybe, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

This is where you before we went live, uh, folks, Wendy and I were talking about uh whether whether she currently has a personal development uh sort of mindset coach. And uh I think this is where you're like, yeah, it's probably another clue to go out and find somebody who's good and you trust. When you have a coach who's not your spouse, who's not your business partner, you can both celebrate the big wins. Yes, that was a really great day, uh, and sort of commiserate with the uh, you know, the mistakes or the challenges that we make or fall into, things like that. That's been very important for me. I've worked with the same guy for probably over a decade. And then firm-wide, we have uh an EOS entrepreneur operating system traction coach, uh, who runs our quarterly meetings and our annual retreats, and that's just been really helpful. Now we're we're about 25 people under roof. Um, but our mantra, my son and I are partners, and our mantra is okay, we're growing, could do all these other things, but our lifestyle is really good. We like the lives that we're living. He's raising his his boys, he and his wife, and she's our HR. And uh, you know, I'm to a point, I'm 68, I've fewer cases out of most litigation, out of all litigation, just arguing cases in the courts of appeals. Um, and it's really good. It's really good. So if we're gonna grow and get more cases, it has to be really well, really well thought out, like how we're gonna do it, because that's a whole nother body of work there. Tell me, and and and and honestly, I do think like mom to two, you know, teen and preteen. I would tell you as a dad to nine, like, okay, they'll go through that phase.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

You have nine children?

SPEAKER_02 15:07

We have nine children, yeah. So so our young, our range is about 43 down to about 22 now, four adopted from China after our five bio biological children. Um uh a bunch of them out in the world, got 10 grandkids, so that's really cool too. Another reason why we wouldn't want to, we don't want to grow and scale to mess up uh you know that life.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

It's fun.

Building A Coaching Income Stream

SPEAKER_02 15:31

And and then I enjoy, you know, I enjoy uh you know, coaching the soul on small firm market as well, helping build great practices. So let's talk about that for you, because you're doing you're doing coaching. Um and and as I read your background, a lot of, hey, probably not exclusively, but a lot of to the women uh lawyers who are out there, either in firms or in small firms, have their own firm, or who want to go solo. So talk to me a little bit about for you now the bright idea, hey, let me add a second business onto my legal business. How did you come to that idea and flesh through it and get started?

unknown 16:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:14

Well, it first happened accidentally. So I first became a health and wellness coach in addition to being a lawyer like 11 years ago. Yeah. And then that business was cool, but it was a part of somebody, it wasn't mine. You know, I was getting paid through a company. And I was like, why would I want to grow this if it was just going to die one day? And it did. And also, I'm not in control of the money, I'm not in control of the paycheck, I'm not in control of like, and I'm I was working really, really, really hard for like a hundred dollar payoffs. So I'm like, what am I doing here? Right. But it was really fun, you know, and I was doing it for fun, you know, not the money. But then that started, like I'm like, okay, what else can I do with this? And then I became a life coach. And knowing, okay, if I'm going to like turn off the litigation spigot, which is like a lot of money, right? Like COVID, I was COVID, I was probably running as fast as I could. And it was probably my best year ever because family law didn't shut down at all during COVID, really. Um, I'm I I knew I would have to grow income somewhere else, right? If I'm gonna shoot no more litigation, no more trial work, the money has to come from somewhere else. And at first it was just life coaching, just you know, just life coaching. But then I really like coaching with a purpose. And I really like coaching and building something at the same time. So we're not just kind of going like in circles sometimes, which regular coaching can feel like. And I wanted people to like end with a product and I wanted people to realize, like, oh my goodness, I could leave my firm, I can make double the money, work not as hard, and have a more fun time doing it and be able to like be there for my kids, right? So, like a lot of the people that come to me, you're exactly right, are moms who have kids probably still preschool, and their schedules are bananas and they want to be there. They want to be there for when they go to school, like school bus, pick up and drop off. They don't want someone breathing down their neck about hours, you know. And they, when I give them the calculation, like I have like a simple calculator, they're like, Are you serious? This can't be right. I'm like, it's right. Like, it can't be. I'm like, you don't have overhead. You barely have any overhead when you're just going out. Like, you'll be fine. So I love it because it's the hand holding, the accountability, the cheerleading, the talking off the ledge, like getting gritty, because I love like I have systems I love and I teach them the systems. Like I primarily use Cleo. I teach them the system and I stay with them for the first month of practice. So that for the first month of practice, when like I'm like the on-call, like, oh no, this isn't working, or what's happening, or what if people don't come with me? Or my old boss said this, like, what do I do and how do I run the bills again? So I stay with them for that first month to get them like up and going. And I love it. I love getting into the weeds with people and super technical and holding their hand at the same time. So um, I didn't know how not to do it. In answer to your question, why did you decide to do this? Like, one, I need to make an income, but also it just it feels like second nature to me.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

So COVID was horrible, but COVID was a big gift to the legal profession because it taught all of us um A, we did not need to be in the same room with people that we were talking to, even did not need to be in some cases in the courtroom with uh judges who were, you know, running cases. Um for our firm, we thought like no one would ever sign a fee agreement, having not met a lawyer in person in the office. That was our belief system before 2020. Totally not true today. And most everybody signs fee agreements here, having spoken to no lawyer, uh, and having just got the email and clicked sign here, you know, after discussion with our sales team. Um and so it was and the legal profession would not have gotten here on its own, I'm convinced, because the legal profession is slow and non-innovative, largely. Um and so, and so, you know, thank goodness that taught us a lot of things that revolutionized our world. Um, what was the uh decision matrix for I don't want to be involved in litigation anymore? Was it just it was the exhausting nature of it that my time is not my own or the emotion?

SPEAKER_03 20:23

It was a lot. It was it was a lot. I remember in 2019, before COVID was even here in December, I ran into a colleague of mine. I told her, I can't do this anymore. I've got to get out. And I I think it was a couple of things. I think it was February 2020. I had three trials. And like family law attorneys, we don't have that many trials. Um so having three in one month was ridiculous. And they were all high stakes, and they were all high stakes with regard to custody. And I had it was just a lot. And it was draining, and I noticed that like I was on the level of burnout. I was like barking at everybody, they were barking at me. And the thing that I is frustrating to me about family law, family law, especially, is always this one piece of evidence that you're worried about. Maybe this is every case, I don't know. You're worried about the whole darn time. Like, how am I gonna get this in? Am I gonna get this in? Is it going to work? I don't know. And you have this like running in the back of your head all the flipping time. Then you go into the work all weekend, trial prep, trial, prep, like all freaking weekend long. Like, is this to what end? What is this really? Am I ever gonna like actually see something back from this? Because family law is so funny too. It's like sometimes the judges abide by the rules of evidence and hearsay, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they, of course, the guy's one judge says, of course, what the kids say can come into evidence. Of course, it's what the kids say, and we're all like, what? You know, so like the rules change all the time. And one of the pe the I in like a couple month period, I had two experiences. The first time I met opposing party was the wife, I was cross examining her on the stand, right? And family law is very like. Like it's squishy and it's emotional and it's we can really do a lot of good if we get everybody at the table. But in this case in particular, the first time I was talking to her, I was cross-examining her. And that felt gross. Like as a mother to mother, and I'm like cross-examining her on why did she buy these Tony Birch shoes? And why was the reading log not signed? And like all this crap, honestly. Like I feel like I was like judging someone else for their parenting and their decision making and everything else. And it's the more I become a parent, right? The older my kids get. I'm like, really? The reading log? This is what we're cross-examining people about. Like, how many times have I forgotten to sign the reading?

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Yeah, we're not doing that.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

Right? Exactly. So it was that in comparison with I had this other case. It was collaborative. It was my first collaborative case. And we all sat around the table and I got and I represent the husband in that case as well. I had a lot, I've had a lot of CEO husbands who the that was my favorite avatar. We talked about avatar somewhere. Favorite avatar for family law litigation, CEO husbands, 100%. Like, because they're bus, they can make business decisions. And like I like that part. And they were interesting. They wanted to do things a little bit differently. So it was like really interesting. But I digress. So we're on the collaborative law table, and I got to see this guy's like soon-to-be ex-wife and make eye contact with her and under like see her and hear her in the first five minutes of the case. Well, like at least a group meeting. And I'm like, oh, okay, here's what's going on here. I could better relate to my finding, like, hey, look, the real issue is this. This is where we need to settle. And we were able to settle the case. And for so much cheaper. So much cheaper. And just those two experiences, I'm like, I am not a bulldog, right? Same like you were saying you have three different rosters for people, like in terms of referrals for family law. Like, I'm not an a-hole. Like, I'm not a bulldog. Like, I can be tenacious and I won't let something go. But I'm not cut from that cloth. I'm cut, like, let's bring it together. We can settle this. Let's get it done. And that that's where I'm better suited.

Boundaries For Time And Energy

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Well, and that's really a very long answer. No, but it's a great description of how you found what you called your zone of genius. Like, and for a lot of us, that's what happens. So when I talk to young lawyers, um, the thing I coach them on the most is like just try to get in hard situations. You know, you you don't really know if you like litigation until you go and you get your face bloodied up a little bit, right? And then you find out, like, holy crap, my face got bloodied up, but I won the case, right? And then you you may find the thing that you really like to do. And one of the sad things, I think, as an old guy, right, 2026, is that there's so few opportunities, fewer opportunities for young lawyers to get up on uh their feet in front of a judge or in front of a jury, whatever it is, and just try to do the work, right? And they seem to be many of them afraid of losing or afraid of like someone's gonna say something like nobody's watching you, nobody's watching you, just go and do it. Because when we started, like I knew I was the dumbest person in the courtroom. Like I thought everybody, everybody, I knew everybody in the courtroom was smarter than me. I was like, why, why are they even letting me in here? And they need lawyers need to find out that that's normal. Like, that's what everybody feels. Um, and then you find your place. I mean, uh, we found this ERISA long-term disability space 20 years ago, and like we're really good at it now, but it was hard in the beginning, but we really love it. We've got great systems for that. Um, let me switch gears for a moment because you've written a bunch and coached a bunch on sort of time management, right? And one of the things lawyers um, yeah, it's funny, Wendy, because lawyers complain about their hard lives. I'm like, dude, like the UPS guy, he has a hard life, right? The woman who's delivering the uh the big packages or slepping bags at Starbucks, like they have hard lives. We don't really have hard lives. Uh, but time is a uh high frequency subject for lawyers. And so what do you have to offer some ideas for lawyers who are running their small firm, maybe their solo firm, about not letting time be the driver of their whole lives.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

Yeah, right. I've I have so many different tid tidbits. I'm trying to think of where to start. So I'm gonna start with one of the ideas that you said too, which is Fridays are the days that like no meetings are on the calendar and you're not in the office. So I do something similar. So Tuesdays, because I wasn't I wasn't having time to actually get my work done, I was in meetings all the time. So Tuesdays are my days, same thing. No meetings, no nothing. I do still sometimes cheat on myself just because I I've been I'm like in a travel season right now. So I'm going to a lot of conferences. So there's only so much time available on my calendar. But when I do cheat on myself, Nicole's allowed to like yell at me. That's my assistant. She's allowed to yell at me. But also I tell her if you're like a book from the bottom up. So I work, I usually kick off around four. So I have to pick up my kids. So if there's a meeting, the first meeting starts at three and then two, and then so at least I have that beginning of the day for myself and do what I need to do. And by the time I'm sort of like losing speed anyway, yes, perfect time for a client meeting. So I can turn on for that, right? Like I think as soon as like we are in go mode, like our brains, like we don't really know where we are. We're in flow. We're doing what we need to do. So that's that's piece one. But the I think the most, most, most important thing for attorneys, and I'm just gonna call it like it is, is like, what are they doing at nighttime? Like, what are they doing and how are they relaxing? And if it's with wine and booze, it's not going to help them. And I think that is like the hardest part of our profession. We're taught from a young age, work hard, play hard and and or cope hard. I just made that up. Work hard, play hard, cope hard. And that's the title of your next book. Isn't that good? We have to remember this. Um, and then they wake up the next morning like crap. Like a lot of people come to me, and one one of the first questions I ask now before, and I used to be afraid of the question, like, how much are you drinking? And some people don't have a problem. And some people are like, Oh, like about half a bottle of wine at night. I'm like, can we can we cut that down? Because like, especially as you get older, like that's it stays with you. Like half a bottle of wine is gonna stay with you till noon and you're gonna feel foggy and gross and everything else. So that's a big piece. And then P the final one is so when they wake up the next morning, like when they wake up in the morning, ideally with some more clarity, is not to get on this thing, you know, first thing.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

The phone, yes.

SPEAKER_03 28:21

Because when we do that, it's either client emails or social media. Inevitably, uh there's a me email in there.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

There's no booster on the phone. There's no good. You know, hey, you've just won a million dollars. Um, you're right. It is um they're depressants.

SPEAKER_03 28:41

Yeah, and it trashes our days.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

Stimulants in a in a bad way. Yeah. Right. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 28:47

But I say, before your feet are even on the freaking floor, you've let someone else control how you feel that morning, right? Because like you're already like re like drafting your response to somebody. You're already like crap, as soon as I go to work, I have to do this. Or you're looking at Instagram or LinkedIn and like you're in the comparison game, right? Look, I shouldn't even be doing what I'm doing. This person's doing it better, et cetera, et cetera. So to really make before they reach for the phone, to think, okay, this is my favorite exercise, there is out of all the things. Okay, so like they scan through the day. I'm like, okay, what's the big event of the day or the most critical event of the day? And then they think of what that is. So for a lot of lawyer listeners, like it's probably, it might be trial, it might be court, it might be a high-stakes mediation, and it might even even more particular. It could be the cross-examination of a certain witness. It could be like the argument to the judge about like the motion eliminate, whatever it might be. And they get into that very particular, this is what matters most. Who do I need to be in that moment? Who do I need to be? Like they do a dress rehearsal for what it looks like and have them succeeding, and then coming up with some adjectives about who they so I am, I am calm, I am clear, I am confident, I am unwavering, um, I'm insightful, you know, and it might be or might be a family event too. But they do that, they do the dress rehearsal, they have an affirmation that's not like a silly affirmation, it's like an actual intentional affirmation for that moment of time. And then like they're gonna have a good day, period. Like it makes that critical event go flow with so much more ease. That's where they're focused on. They're the CEO of the day and of that moment. And if they can like check that box for that, like they've got it. And then all the other time, just like it's just massaged into the right place when they make sure that they're doing that for themselves first. And I of course have like more little like itty bitty things, but those are like the big picture makes everything else work.

AI Tools That Speed Drafting

SPEAKER_02 30:35

You know, one of the things I I read a bunch of Eckert Tolle and his book, Um, The Power of Now, is like, you know, everything in the future and everything in the past right now are just neurons running around in your brain. Like they aren't even, they aren't even real. Now I get it. You need to plan. I get it that yes, it can be stressful, you're getting ready for a big argument or a cross-exam or what. Like I get that. But the ability to then carve out and say, okay, but but I'm gonna put this on the calendar and I'm gonna work on this issue, you know, from two to four on Thursday, gets it out of your present worry brain and into there's gonna be dedicated two hours, whatever it is, where I'm gonna be time protected, no one can get in the door, it'd be the same thing as if you were in a deposition or mediation or in court. Like nobody's gonna bother you. You're not gonna let anybody bother you. And so carving out, like you said, like identifying the big things, giving them some time on the calendar. That's important to pre-plan that. Right. And then what you find out is that if you don't have enough time to pre-plan, you're never gonna have enough time if it you're just doing it ad hoc. And that's really the source of lawyer um unhappiness now blending into substance or alcohol abuse or you know, phone device sort of abuse. Um, and at the end of the day, we're stealing from our family. This is the point I try to make is that okay, we can come in on Saturday and do this. Well, great, but you have two kids at home, right? Who need you? Um, and none of us would like put that on a poster. I like stealing from my family. I like working on Saturday because I steal from my family. Like, and so we know that that's not right. So it's good that you're doing this work because I think everybody needs to have, you know, a set of principles to live by and a set of time management and and boundary setting principles to live by just makes decision making easier. Um are you using, I'm curious in the um in the law firm, are you using any AI tools? Oh yes. Oh yes. Yeah. So what do you um people are always curious about this? Is you know, it's a new world.

SPEAKER_03 32:46

Um, I'll tell you my favorites, and I'll, and as I tell them to you, I'll tell them you my flow as well. And I'm excited. I'm actually presenting to the Maryland State Bar Association this month, and I'm very excited to show everybody like what I do, right? Uh Fathom AI note taker has changed my life. It's just so I use Fathom AI note taker anytime anybody ever lets me. So it is there for my mediations. And so now, like we were saying before, I prefer people mediate on Zoom because I can use my note taker in that way. I haven't mastered yet the plod guy, uh, but I use it for me at my mediations and I use it for when I am best interest attorney and I'm talking to witnesses. Um, I use it for talking to witnesses. And it just what I love about it is it's so it takes notes so much better than I ever could ever take. Not even, yeah, it has a transcript, but it summarizes my notes and you can ask it questions. You say, hey, fathom, did we talk about this? Hey, fathom, did we talk about that? And not only does it tell you, it shows you where in the Zoom and you can listen to it and you're like, oh yeah, got it, got it. And in my coaching, it's great, right? Because I I talk to a fair number of people. So my coaching, when I'm going on to my next session, I'm like, I can look at the fathom from the last session to really quickly remember what we talked about last time. Again, it was better than my like crappy note-taking before. Um, so it's changed my life in terms of reminding me of what we talked about, um, but in terms of like where I use it next. So the other AI I use, I'm trying to think where to go next. I like, I use Clio work. I really enjoy Clio work. It's my answer to, you know, not having to put crazy stuff we shouldn't be putting on chat, GPT, because I think a lot of lawyers are still just throwing stuff into chat that they really shouldn't be, right? And Clio work is a nice affordable solution. So, for example, I did a mediation recently and they just needed an MOU, memorandum of understanding. I took the transcript transcript from Fathom, I dropped it into Clio work and I said, make me an MOU. And within three minutes, it was done. It needed some tweaking. Like I still read it, it needed some tweaking. There was some weird stuff in there. Um but I was able to accomplish that in 15 minutes as opposed to an hour and a half, right? And I'm flat feeing that work. We're both I looked at we're both the winners.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

Brilliant. Right.

SPEAKER_03 34:58

I'm the winner because I have more time. But the clients are the winner too. They're getting a better product, and I don't have to charge$1.5 hours, right? So same MOU. Like I'll have Spell Book read it. So I also love Spellbook. So Spellbook reads all my contracts. So what I like about Cleo work is sort of like the associate. It does the first level of work. Then I look at it with my eyes, I make it better. And then I use Spellbook as a word add-in. And that's like the senior, the senior partner's looking at it now. I'm like, oh, you screwed this up. You know what I mean? And so the senior partner's looking at it for law and grammar and consistency. Uh, so that's the tech stack I use right now. I'm sure I use other things, but like those are the things I didn't have what, six months ago? And now I'd be like, I can't live without it, you know?

What She Hires Next

SPEAKER_02 35:42

Well, it's really brilliant because you know, lawyers get paid for creating uh either answers to challenges or creating opportunities, like strategic thinking. And what you've just described is a faster way to get to the strategic thinking, your zone of genius, versus the old days where you had to be a good note taker, then frankly, somebody had to type the notes in and hope you got that accurate. And then there was no easy way to go in and extract, as you said, hey, remind me what we said about this in this 90-minute mediation or meeting. Um, and it it allows you to get what you need to go, okay, cool. Here's just like you did with that CEO mediation, like you you saw something when you spoke to the spouse on the other side that then gave your client a different way probably of looking at the whole thought problem. And here's a path you probably haven't thought of, but I think this will work. And everybody gets happy. And so, yeah, you know, unfortunately, a lot of lawyers I think uh, well, A, they still think it's only good for um legal research, and it's actually, unless you're getting a proprietary product, pretty poor in legal research, but one thing it'll do pretty well. Like in your space, I'm sure, like family lawyers all over the country have put up blog posts and articles on our website. So if you need a broad overview of some weird new area of law, you can pretty quickly like find out what the landmarks are, right? Then then you can go do your legal research in the real thing. Uh so it's useful there, right? Um, but really, really useful. I I use Fathom uh for note-taking. Uh, we use Filevine, and and Filevine is just Filevine AA is great. It's like, hey, I'm talking to Wendy today. Wendy's a client, like tell me what's going on in the case, right? And it because all the case information is in there, it does a really good job of saying, hey, here's here's what your team has been talking about and where we are in the litigation or the settlement offers, and boom, um, then you, you know, the lawyer is more prepared and and shows up appearing to be more prepared. So I Wendy, it's funny, I joke, because I'm old older than you, but I remember we went to from books to online legal research, we went to personal computers. Like I started practicing before we had PCs on every desk, let alone, you know, forbidden laptops, personal computers to the internet, like free access to information was invented during my professional career and now AI. And it is it is so interesting to listen to some podcasts and go, oh, that's cool. I hadn't thought about that before. Let's see if we can find a way to use that over here in our practice. And flat fee, contingent fee, that's really revolutionized uh the game. What's next for you, my friend? We're still we're just ended the first quarter of 2026. You've got speaking engagements, you are building out the uh the coaching program, you're still practicing, and you got this teenager and a preteen.

SPEAKER_03 38:58

I know. What's next for me? What's next for me is I I think actually to look at both of my businesses and still cut out more of what I don't want to be doing in terms of products I'm offering and where I'm the bottleneck. So my next hire in the legal world will be I need someone to do more of my drafting, like that they tee it up for me and get it as close as they can, and then probably using those AI tools as well, right? And then it gets to me, and then so I'm not the hold up there. And then in the coaching world, it's if I look at my messaging, and I think my messaging is I started as a life coach to a burnout coach, and I talk about burnout and time management on stages all the time, but it's hard to sell that. Um, so really getting intentional, like what and what I love the most is helping people go solo or helping solos make their firms better. So just make sure my messaging is even more on target with that and figuring out my next hire in that space. Like I need, I need a Nicole. Nicole's my assistant in the law firm. Well, I didn't tell you how I got her yet, but she's I need a her for the life coaching to seek out opportunities for me. So again, I can just be my zone of genius. Oh, here's a new client. Great. Exactly like you said, have a salesperson and like I'm not even on the discovery call. They like, oh, yep, I want to work with Wendy. Here you go, done. Cool. And that's the funny thing is that's how I signed up for my first coach. Like, they're like, dude, like I a sales lady called me. I'm like, what's the price? I don't care. She tried to tell me what it entailed. I'm like, I don't care. I just want to work with her. Three months, great. Here's the money. Like, I don't care about the rest, right? So to get to myself to that level in the coaching world. And how did you find your Wendy? Uh, Facebook. Facebook. I, but I had an avatar, which is I wanted a stay-at-home mom who was used to be in the workforce, but like didn't want to go back full time, who was smart, knew what they were doing. They were organized, they were looking for flexibility. I'm giving flexibility because I didn't want full time, and that had a good head on their shoulders. So I, this is before chat even existed. This is before AI existed. I came up with a Facebook post and I still give it to other people because I think it landed me my unicorn assistant. And as we are talking, I need to do that for my life coaching person too.

Where To Find Wendy

SPEAKER_02 41:08

Well, for those who are listening, I mean, the principle there is to be very clear in your own head of who you want to see walking in the door, whether it's virtual or live or in person, and just trusting the universe that there's somebody out there who will fit that mold. And we just need to get the right message out. Not stop running these generic one ads. Need multitasking paralegal with you know, five years experience. Like that just fills your inbox with a lot of uh junk to get through. Junk. Being very clear, uh you you have fewer responses, but more people who understand before they reach out to you, like this is what this job looks like, feels like, and this is what this person um what it would be like to work for her. Um, okay, folks want to see the law firm uh website and info. What should they where do they go?

SPEAKER_03 41:58

Yeah, Wendy Meadows Law. Wendy Meadows Law.com.

SPEAKER_02 42:02

And then the coaching side.

SPEAKER_03 42:04

The coaching side, probably the to get the best of me, like LinkedIn is great. I do have a coaching website, but even today I realized in my existential crisis I'm having today, it represents the life coach I was five years ago and not who I am now. Uh so but Wendy S. Meadows.com is where you can find her LinkedIn, Instagram, another great place to find me.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

Wendy S. Meadows. Um, yeah, there's so many things. Entrepreneurs have so many things. Uh and when you once you find your assistant for that business, then that'll that'll all be fixed. And the name of your book that you have? Sparkle and Grit. And that's about Huh.

SPEAKER_03 42:39

It's it was written to 2016 Wendy, who was in a hole of probably depression and desperation, and she needed to get herself out of that hole and figure out who she was and the mark she wanted to make on the world. And it it is the book to her. So it's about burnout, like beating burnout, finding balance, and escaping monotony. And it's really for that woman who I think her second, her last child. Her last child is 18 months old. And that's when I find with women, that's like when your brain comes back in your head and you're back online again and you're looking around, like, okay, I have my babies, and like now what? The book is written for her. Like, oh, okay. And it will get her to like wake up again and find out, remember who she is again, and then off to the races.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

Very good. That's awesome. Wendy, thanks for spending some time with us today. It was a great interview.

SPEAKER_03 43:23

Yes. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

That's it for today's episode of the Renegade Lawyer Podcast, where we're rewriting the rules of what it means to build a great law practice and a great life. If something sparked a new idea or gave you clarity, pass it on. Subscribe, leave a review, and share this with someone who's ready to think bigger. Want more tools, strategies, and stories from the trenches? Visit GreatLegalMarketing.com or connect with Ben Glass and the team on LinkedIn. Keep building boldly. We'll see you next time.

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