The Strengths of Using a Classical Curriculum with Headmaster Josh Longenecker
Dr. Lisa Hassler
Welcome to The Brighter Side of Education. I am your host, Dr. Lisa Hassler, here to enlighten and brighten the classrooms in America through focused conversation on important topics in education. In each episode, I discuss problems we as teachers and parents are facing and what people are doing in their communities to fix it. What are the variables and how can we duplicate it to maximize student outcomes? Today I focus on a classical curriculum. Can using a classical curriculum approach to teaching students in preschool through grade twelve increase student reading and overall academic achievement? Reading and math rates across the nation are spiraling down with no end in sight. It begs the question, how did we get here as a nation and what can we do to fix it?
Education reformer E. D. Hirsch stated in 2016 that the devolution of America's education outcomes is the result of abandoning knowledge or core factual content, particularly during the elementary years. He fought for knowledge-based education rather than the latest educational fads. He argued that the ongoing disparity between advantaged and disadvantaged students is because students lack the same background information, vocabulary and story knowledge that are necessary for subsequent knowledge building. According to Hirsch, it is the job of the school in a free republic to ensure that all citizens have a common storehouse of knowledge from which to draw. Therefore, it is necessary that the elementary years be devoted to learning, often by rote and by drill large swaths of information that are available and common to all.
While this has not been a popular stance in education over the past almost 100 years, with a notable decline in reading outcomes, knowledge-based curriculums are gaining attention with phrases like science of learning, science of reading, and even now, science of math. In line with this knowledge-based curriculum and Hirsch's theory, there is the classical curriculum. Classical education presents itself in contrast to the dominating utilitarian philosophy of education, emphasizing rather disciplines that are believed to produce good humans over those who are simply college and career ready. It uses a rigorous, content rich core with a 2500 year history.
Here to discuss classical curriculum is Josh Longnecker. He is the co founder of The Classical Academy of Sarasota with his wife, Harmony, as well as the headmaster.
Welcome to the show, Josh.
Josh Longenecker
Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
Dr. Lisa Hassler
Can you tell us about yourself and what led you and your wife to start the Classical Academy of Sarasota?
Josh Longenecker
Yeah, my wife and I moved here to Florida. Now, 13 years ago, I had taught in Colorado at a classical school, so I had seen this foundation of education done well, and we moved here to Florida and I went to work at a local charter school teaching here. And what we saw was a stark difference between the classical and the formation of classical students at the school in Colorado, and then the difference here at a local charter school, which was a high performing school and what we saw was a lack of rigor, a lack of content. We were working to teach kids to take a test and to perform well on a test.
And it wasn't, as you said, about building great citizens, about well rounded individuals. And so it was at that point that we made a decision to check into and look into what it would take to start a school. We had been fortunate and blessed in that we had gotten to know the founders of our school in Colorado, and we formed a relationship with them. So we had some background there, and then we just jumped in. So we began the research and all the work that goes into starting any business and began researching and talking about classical education and all that it was and the rich heritage that it brings.
And so that was around 2011. And then for several years, we worked to try to get a charter school approved here in Sarasoft County. But unfortunately, the county was not favorable to a classical approach to education. So it was 2013. We shifted and decided to open as a private school. So then it was 2014, the fall of 2014, when we opened our doors for the first time to 187 students that year in grades pre K through 10th grade.
Dr. Lisa Hassler
And now it's taken off. It's grown exponentially. And you even have a waiting list.
Josh Longenecker
Yes. So this year we're coming to the end of our 9th year. Now we have a little over 850 students on campus, preschool through 12th grade. We have about 500 on our waiting list for next year, which, unfortunately, we cannot accommodate. We have run out of space. We're working to accommodate as many as we can, and we're going to grow to about 960 next year. But then we're just limited on what we can do. But there has been a great demand for a classical approach to education here in this area.
Dr. Lisa Hassler
So what is a classical curriculum and the meaning behind the phrase back to basics?
Josh Longenecker
So, in essence, it's the education our great grandparents had. It's the education of our founding fathers. It dates back to the Greek and Roman era, where it was an education steeped in a breadth of knowledge. So students would learn history. They would learn history from a first source, meaning we would go back to the original authors of whatever time period we're studying so that we understand history from the perspective of those that lived it, not from our understanding of it, but to get a truer sense of the culture, the time, the context, the setting for each historical time period.
Reading is taught through explicit phonics. So we're teaching kids the letter sounds and how to decode the letter sounds. Grammar is explicitly taught, so students know how to write well and read well. They are discerning how to build beautiful sentences, which then leads to writing great paragraphs. One thing must necessarily precede the other literature is taught using classical works. Great works, timeless works. We say here that it's not that modern authors don't have something to say. It's that time has yet to tell whether it's worth being told. So we'll wait until time does its thing. But kids read books in their entirety.
They finish a story from the beginning to the end. And our hope is that that book becomes a friend. It becomes something that helps shape them and guide their decisions as they make decisions for their future, whether it be Pride and Prejudice or any work of Shakespeare, the Iliad, The Odyssey, these great timeless works that speak to higher virtues and values, that esteem the good and vilify the bad, and they don't cross those things. And that is an unfortunate effect of what many of the books, modern books do today, is they confuse kids with a glorification of evil, and we want to steer away from that.
It's Latin. We learn Latin because Latin is foundational to our understanding of English. So our kids are taught Latin beginning in the early grades. Music and art are taught. We study the masters because it's important that we understand what was happening. It correlates to our history and the beauty that comes from music and art and how it unlocks parts of our brains and helps us think at a higher level. Math and science are taught. Math facts are memorized. Kids must learn math facts and know them forwards and backwards. Science is a hands on approach, so kids learn to interact and really understand the wonder of the creation and all that is this world that we live in. And it teaches kids to understand and know facts about all of these subjects, not just specializing in one or another.
Dr. Lisa Hassler
Like your mission to raise logical citizens with virtuous hearts. And I think that your curriculum definitely demonstrates that mission of wanting to make sure that it's well balanced with that background knowledge to create good citizens, but also that virtuous heart that goes along with that good and evil you were talking about with the literature. So you worked with Hillsdale College to develop this curriculum and other classical schools for the two and a half years before you came into actually opening your doors. Can you describe that specific design that you actually chose?
Josh Longenecker
Yeah. So different classical schools take a different approach. Hillsdale College has what's called the Barney Charter School Initiative, and it is a spearhead to start charter schools, classical charter schools all across America. We joined that in hopes of opening as a charter school, but as I mentioned earlier, it was not in the cards for us here within Sarasota County to receive that approval for a charter. But we did partner with them, and we're able to create the foundation and a framework for much of what we still do today. In terms of much of the curriculum we use is still the recommended curriculum by hillsdale.
Many of their professors have written the curriculum. Our grammar was written by one of their professors, Dr. Copeland. It's a fabulous grammar curriculum, but then we've adopted other parts and pieces. What we tried to do here at the Classical Academy of Sarasota is adopt the best pieces of what we've seen at multiple classical schools. So we do a lot with songs and chants in the early grades. We've seen that model done well. And so our kids learn through song and chant in preschool through 6th grade before it kind of falls out of favor in the middle school level.
But they learn great information. They learn a wide array of information, whether it's the presidents of the United States or songs in kindergarten about photosynthesis, the bones that make up the skeletal system to songs about pilgrims and 1620, songs about the age of exploration, songs about the kings and queens of England, songs about the laws of thermodynamics Newton's laws of physics and motion. So kids are learning all of these things set to a song, and it helps set things in the long term memory. So they're holding on to it for the long term, not just simply for the day or for a test.
They're holding onto it for the long term and it goes home with them in their brains. So that's really what we've tried to do here at TCA is choose that curriculum that we believe is going to be best suited to train up those kids and build a beautiful mind.
Dr. Lisa Hassler
I like how you use your four year cycle of history and science. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Josh Longenecker
Yeah. So we have a four year cycle to our history. We believe it's important to know history and the story of the world. There's a book, a book series we use. It's actually called the Story of the world. And so our kids learn the story of the world starting in first grade. They start with ancient history, and then in second grade, the Middle Ages. In third grade, they learn about the age of exploration through the Revolutionary War. And then fourth grade starts with the Civil War and then up through the modern era. And so they're learning from the beginning to the end how history oftentimes repeats itself, but also how it builds upon itself.
And in those early grades, we're teaching the big picture of things. We leave out the details, the hard things that happened within history. We paint with a broad brush because they're little kids and they need to understand just kind of the big pieces of that puzzle. And then we repeat that entire cycle through middle school, starting in fifth grade with ancient history and coming through 8th grade in the modern era, and then again in high school, 9th grade in ancient history, up through the modern era at the end of 12th grade. And we go deeper and deeper into the context so that by the time our kids get to 11th grade and they're studying the Revolution, they're reading the Federalist Papers so that they understand state and federal rights, not from our perspective, again, but from those who understood the arguments through the ages.
And so they read those writings of our great founders and why they argued so vehemently for the state to have certain rights and the federal government to have other rights and for limited government. So we understand the foundations of why we exist as a nation. That our nation was not built upon a new concept, but it was built upon the ancient past. That they looked to the Greeks and the Romans and our kids understand that that they looked to the Magna Carta in the Middle Ages and the philosophies of John Locke and they took all of this great learning and as we like to say here, they stood on the shoulders of giants.
And it was those giants then that we have the privilege of standing on their shoulders and learning from them here within a classical education.
Dr. Lisa Hassler
And you use the same ideas for science where you take those four main areas of science biology, chemistry, physics and Earth science that would normally only be at a high school level freshman, sophomore, junior, senior year. And then you begin that at your first grade and then continue to do that four year cycle, building upon kind of like you were doing with history, where large brushes of knowledge are big pictures in the lower grades. And then building upon, at a deeper level, the depth of knowledge and content as you continue to increase in grade level. Correct?
I love that because I think it's very unique that you continue that cycle of building upon, but that you're hitting all four areas over and over again, so that by the time that they're in their high school years, this is not the first time that they're hearing it. And they are able to build and connect to that knowledge that they already have acquired through their prior education to then be able to go deeper in that.
Josh Longenecker
Yes, absolutely. And so that's really what our goal is. If they can memorize great facts, great information. In the early grades, we remember songs, we remember chants. So within the sciences, if they learn the laws of motion and they understand that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, but it's set to a song, when they come back to it again in 7th grade, they know the laws of motion. In third grade, they may not understand them fully. And even in 7th grade, they may not understand them fully, but they know them. And then so when we get to 11th grade and we're digging into it at a much deeper level, the kids have a foundation upon which it's easily and readily built right.
Dr. Lisa Hassler
That builds that capacity for being able to go down deeper. I think that a lot of students are missing in those elementary years, to give them the foundational knowledge, to be able to even do debates, and to really dig into the nuts and bolts of why things are happening, projects, possibly things like that. So that's pretty exciting. You also do something quite unique with math. Can you talk about what you do with math across your campus?
Josh Longenecker
Yeah. So the way math is structured here at TCA is math is the first hour of every day. So what that allows us to do is level our math program. So it's not about grade level for us. It's about ability level. So we take kids who are advanced in math. If it's a third grader who understands math at a higher level, we move them to a fourth grade classroom or a fifth grade classroom. We just simply move them to the level of their ability that their ability allows. And consequently, we can also slow them down. So if we have a third grader who just sometimes those wheels, those mathematical wheels just turn a little slower, we can slow them down.
They are at a third grade reading level, so they understand third grade concepts. But math is a struggle, and we understand that. So we simply just slow them down. And then kids can advance or consequently be moved back, if need be, throughout the year. As we see gaps, as we see accomplishments and greater understanding throughout the year, we can move them up or we can also slow them down. But we do that because we want kids to really grasp they have to have a foundation of math. They can't simply just be moved through the system. And it helps our teachers tremendously, too.
They're teaching to one level within any particular class. They're not trying to teach to three or four levels within a third grade class. They're teaching third grade math. And everyone within that room understands third grade math.
Dr. Lisa Hassler
Yeah, I would have loved that as a teacher. I know that at one point I had like three different groups going at the same time. It's a very difficult task to juggle. So being able to have that consistency where the whole campus is teaching for a solid hour math every morning, that really opens up a lot of possibilities with being able to meet students individual needs better. So that was very unique, I thought. And then I like your use of journals. Can you talk about journals?
Josh Longenecker
Yeah. So rather than giving kids a worksheet or the fill in the blank coloring sheet, we work from a blank slate. So we use journals, just blank, either lined or half lined journals in the preschool through all of our grades, really. But we take real advantage of them. And so what we do is, if the kids are learning about in kindergarten, they learn about the Boston Tea Party. And there's a song and a chant that goes with that. But they draw the ship and they draw the settlers, they draw the founders dressed up as Native Americans on the ship, and they draw them throwing boxes over the side.
And then there's a song that goes with it. But what our goal is with that is a it's very cute, but but the most important thing is, is that they're learning the information and it's set in the long term memory. So if they draw it, if they see it drawn, then they draw it. If they hear it said, then they say it and it's a song and a chant. That information sticks with them. So that we've been doing this for nine years. We have 9th graders who started with us in kindergarten and they remember the songs and can sing them along with our kindergarten.
If they're not too cool for that, they'll sing along with them. I have a 9th grader who was a part of the program nine years ago, and so he knows all those songs because they're set to simple tunes and if put to the test, he would sing along with the kindergarten.
Dr. Lisa Hassler
That's amazing. And it really attributes your knowledge of the cognitive science of the best teaching strategies and methods that are out there to implement higher learning.
Josh Longenecker
Yes.
Dr. Lisa Hassler
So science of reading is making national headlines and becoming a current tread with policymakers to increase children's reading proficiency rates. It uses a structured literacy approach focusing on fondness and content rich curriculum, which is something the classical curriculum does as well. Can you describe your school's reading instruction approach and your success rate with third graders reading on grade level?
Josh Longenecker
Yeah, we use an explicit phonics program, as I mentioned earlier. And so what it does is it teaches kids the letter sounds. It is not a sight word based program. Again, we believe heavily in memorization, but we don't memorize words. We must learn letters and their sounds. And so what it does is it teaches us to teaches our students to decode or sound through words. So there's the 26 basic alphabet letters and then 45 additional multi letter phonograms that accompany those. And so they learn those phonograms and then from there they're able to take those tools and decode the English language so that when there is an unfamiliar word, an unknown word, they're able to sound through it and read it.
They're not guessing, but they're reading through it. And because of the Latin we teach, oftentimes they're then able to decipher the root of the word and discover the meaning of it as well. So they understand the foundations of words, but then that lends to spelling as well. So they understand how words should be spelled because they can sound out a word as it's being said to them by the teacher. They can sound through the word and then spell more proficient. And so that's really the tool that we find to be very beneficial. And actually we've adopted Hillsdale, created a new curriculum called Literacy Essentials.
And we're using that curriculum, which is still the phonics approach to education or to reading that we've adopted this year, and we're finding great success with that. And so our kids at the third grade level are all reading at a third or above level 100% of our kids. And we're not a school for the gifted. We don't have an admissions test. We don't really take into account gifted learning. Our school is rigorous, and it is designed to be so for all students. We believe that all students are capable of great things of higher levels if we only challenge them to rise to.
Dr. Lisa Hassler
Those levels as well as you're doing the grammar that was designed with Hillsdale College, right, the grammar. And then you talk about great writers making great writers, make great thinkers, make great speakers.
Josh Longenecker
Yes.
Dr. Lisa Hassler
So what is that?
Josh Longenecker
So if we can learn to write well, the written word is a very powerful thing. It's one thing for us to in today's society, we think words have no meaning, and so words are used too. Flippantly social media has done a great disservice to the beauty of language. I believe we have almost devolved as a society in terms of our thinking and our writing abilities, because now everything is in short phrases and acronyms and symbols, and so there's no great beauty to it any longer. But our kids are able to take the thoughts that are in their mind, they're able to articulate them on paper and then speak them forth.
So they become great writers. And if we're great writers, then we become great speakers. If I can write my thoughts out and if I can compose them well on a piece of paper, well, then it gives me greater confidence to stand before a group of my peers or whomever it may be and speak it forth, and to know that I'm speaking and doing so well and with excellence. And so when kids are taught to read well, when kids understand grammar and sentence structure and they've read great works, they've read great speeches, if we don't read great things, we can't write great things.
In order to know great writing, we have to have read great writing. So in the reading of the writing that we do and the books that we use, our kids understand what great writing is.
Dr. Lisa Hassler
I couldn't agree more. What do you think is wrong with education and what is the meaning behind your words? I love them, but do not care how they feel.
Josh Longenecker
Oftentimes I think our current educational system is built around it's, a student centered education. And human beings can naturally be very narcissistic creatures. We can focus on ourselves. And so we've built an education system that unfortunately teaches kids that they are the center of education, that they determine what they learn. And some days they may feel like learning certain things, and other days they may feel like not learning those things for some kids. They may not feel like learning math, they may not feel like reading. Reading may not be their favorite thing. Science may not be their favorite thing.
And so if we allow our emotions to dictate our education there is much that will be lacking in our education. And so I care deeply about my students. I know every one of their names and they are excellent and wonderful individuals. But when it comes to their feelings, we must learn to think beyond our feelings. We must think logically. I love my students. I don't care how they feel at any particular moment. Because if I allow those feelings to dictate what they learn then we will cast aside many great things. And that is where we do a disservice to our kids in the formation of who they are as individuals, as citizens.
My feelings may tell me that right now in my case I don't feel like getting up and going to work. There are certain days where I don't feel like it, but my emotions will lie to me. But I know that virtue will tell me and that history will tell me. And the lessons I've learned from the literature that I've read that to be a good man means that I must be a loyal man. To be a good man means that I must be diligent, that I must be hardworking. That those are the qualities that humankind has elevated for centuries.
And it's those qualities that I must aspire to. And I must put aside my feelings, my base emotions that would lead me to do otherwise. Because it's easy to just sit at home and do nothing. It is hard to get up and go to work. It is a hard thing. Learning is a hard. But in doing the hard thing, I become a good individual. I become a citizen who will raise a good family, who will be a good husband, a good mother or a good wife, who will be a good mother or a good father. And if I don't do the hard things and if I don't strive to rise above the emotions of any particular thing then I will do a disservice to myself and to all those around me.
Dr. Lisa Hassler
Think that that speaks a lot to character development and how grit and perseverance is revered for the outcomes. That it's not easy and that we need to be able to have that grit and perseverance in our own education, to be able to see through the difficult moments to come through with success.
Josh Longenecker
And I think those are lessons that need to be taught in life. I think, unfortunately, we've raised a society that as soon as something becomes hard, we cast it aside. And unfortunately we don't then get to see the beauty and the fruit that comes from the striving and the failure, the 1000 times we failed. And then we finally succeed. And to feel that success we don't understand what true success is. We assume that it's going to come easy, that I'll graduate college and make $100,000 the next year and that marriage will be easy, that raising kids will be easy. And when it becomes difficult, we simply cast it aside.
Dr. Lisa Hassler
Right. There's a struggle that comes with success, and I think that that needs to be discussed and talked about. And our work as a student prepares us for that. So with Stem programs and technology initiatives dominating the education field, you are taking the opposite approach with low to no tech. Can you elaborate on your philosophy on technology and education?
Josh Longenecker
Yes. The popular mantra now is an iPad. And every student's hand, the thing with an iPad is to use that as the example is an iPad is inherently user friendly. It is designed to not have it doesn't have a user's manual. My three year old can use it probably more adeptly than I can. It ultimately becomes a toy to be used as such. We see it as a distraction within the classroom for a teacher to monitor a group of 1015 20. However, many students may be in a classroom to monitor every single one of those devices and to make sure that every one of those students is on task and doing what they're supposed to do as they hold that device up in front of their face is near impossible.
We're tasking teachers to do something that is not feasible. And students are smart enough to know how to navigate around those things and to use them for their intended purpose, which is for games, for toys, for whatever it may be, for entertainment. And it is a device designed for that. And for that purpose it has great value. But within education, we see it as a distraction. And so we believe, first and foremost, in a logical mind, that if we give kids the ability to think and reason and process information, that they will be able to take whatever technology they're given and use it to its utmost effectiveness.
The rate at which technology advances now is astronomical. And it's wonderful, and technology certainly has its blessings. But the technology of today will not be the technology of tomorrow. And so to train our kids on today's technology does a disservice to them on many levels, because when they enter the workforce, when they graduate and move on, the technology they used in school will no longer be valid. So they're going to have to relearn the technology. And if they don't have a mind that can think and reason and learn well, then they will be ill prepared for whatever task they're given.
So the technology cannot supplant the learning. Certainly it can be used as an aid when necessary, but it should be very limited. And so we teach typing. We believe that typing is a necessary skill for our students, and so they learn typing in 7th and 8th grade. And they type papers. But outside of that, we have no technology on this campus.
Dr. Lisa Hassler
Well, I can't even begin to tell you how many times as a teacher I ran into issues with technology in my own classroom, where we always had a backup plan. Because while we had this beautiful lesson and the technology was integrated within that lesson, there was always a fallback. Because the likelihood that everything was going to go smooth and that there were going to be no hiccups, no network problems, no battery issues, whatever it is, were very low. The probability of 100% success was kind of low. And so you were always then trying to figure out, oh my gosh, how do I get someone to help me with this network problem?
Why isn't this connecting? And in the meantime, I was wasting valuable teaching time so I could see where that really would eliminate the frustration behind the teacher's end of it, as well as the students who become bored during those periods of transition where the teacher is trying to figure out how to solve the problems. Even if it wasn't just for a whole class presentation, if it was for the iPad, one student can't get out. Well, they're not going to get the lesson then. And so I would run into that all the time. And then as well as the monitoring you spoke about the monitoring to make sure that kids were actually on task.
And I even had it in second grade where a boy was looking at inappropriate photos on the Internet, and it was brought to my attention by somebody else who saw him. And you're just as I missed it because I'm walking around, monitoring, talking with students, and then here he is off in the corner, kind of hiding intentionally to get away with it. And then you're going, oh, my gosh, now we have a big problem on our hand right now. I have to talk to parents about it. I've got to talk to the principal about it. What are the disciplinary actions that are going to occur?
How do we safeguard the school? How do we safeguard the children? And so there's so many layers to that that I kind of find it refreshing that you're just kind of able to take a step back and say, we're not even going to put that in as a variable into our classrooms. Let's just focus on the education.
Josh Longenecker
Yeah, it's what you mentioned at the beginning. It's a back to basics approach, so the basic things are still the most important things.
Dr. Lisa Hassler
Yeah. As we wrap up, can you tell parents about how they can find a school in their area that uses a classical curriculum and how they would know if it's the right fit for their family?
Josh Longenecker
Yeah. The best way is to use technology and look to search out classical schools. There is a resurgence of classical education across America, and there are a number of home school co ops out there, classical conversations and many others learning and families that use a classical approach. But if it is a classical school, odds are they will have the word classical in their name. Classical schools typically will define themselves as such. But the most important thing is for parents to do their research, to go in and ask questions. And I tell parents when they come and tour TCA, that if there are things, if there are questions I can't answer, or questions the answers that I give that make them uncomfortable, well, then that should give them pause, that should cause them to step back and say, is this the right fit for me?
Because they are handing their child over for the bulk of those formative years to be formed. Education is the forming of a soul, forming of an individual. And so you have to trust what is happening within the walls of that school and if they keep you out I know many schools no longer allow parents on campus that as a father would cause me great alarm. Why can't I be in the classroom? Why can't I see what's going on? For us, we have an open door policy. If parents want to come in, they're welcome to come in.
They're welcome to bring their kids on campus every morning and to come get them every afternoon. And then throughout the day, if they just so desire, they can pop in and check on the kids and we welcome them to be a part of the education. And so I would just encourage parents to do their homework and their research, to vet whatever school it is that they're looking at, and to make sure they take the time to do so.
Dr. Lisa Hassler
Excellent advice. Well, thank you Josh, for joining me today to discuss classical curriculum and its benefits. To learn more, go to www.tcasterrasota.com. That's TC Asarasota.com. So, here's the call to action. I go back to Ed Hirsch's words it is the job of the school in a free republic to ensure that all citizens have a common storehouse of knowledge from which to draw. Fight for knowledge-based education rather than the latest educational fads. To end the ongoing disparity between advantaged and disadvantaged students, students need the same background information, vocabulary and story knowledge for subsequent knowledge building. With a 2500 year track record, the classical curriculum is right on track.
If you have a story about what's working in your schools that you'd like to share, you can email me at dr lisarichardsonhassler@gmail.com or visit my website at www dot dr lisarhassler.com and send me a message. If you like this podcast, subscribe and tell a friend. The more people that know, the bigger impact it will have. If you find value to the content in this podcast, consider becoming a supporter by clicking on the Supporter link in the Show Notes.
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