033: How to Know Which Advice to Follow

The podcast discusses how to discern which advice to follow amidst the abundance of information available today. Hosts Stephen Yeh and Mike Chang explore the idea that the suitability of advice depends on the individual's stage of life and personal goals. They emphasize the importance of understanding one's own position in life to determine the relevance of the advice being offered. The conversation also touches on stages of transformation in personal development, suggesting that different advice may be applicable depending on where one is in their journey.

Connect with Mike Chang:
- Instagram: @mikechangofficial
-Youtube: Mike Chang
- Website: www.flow60.com

Connect with Stephen Yeh:
-Instagram: @iamstephenyeh
-Twitter: @iamstephenyeh

Transcript

Stephen: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of Body Over Mind. This is your host, Stephen Yeh, as well as your co host, Mike Chang. And today we're going to dive into the topic of how do you know what advice to really follow? I mean, people, especially in today's world where there's so much information out there and people are always saying that this is the gospel.

This is the way to do things. How do you decipher if. That's actually the right thing for you. And that's what we're going to dive into now. So, , let's just get right into it. Mike, in that case, what would you say? 

Mike: Well, I think. In order to know what advice is good for you, you have to find out where you're at.

Let's say it like this. We're all in different stages of our life and in a certain stage, a [00:01:00] certain type of information would be relevant. Let's say if I am a early twenties person, who's just getting out of the house, I've been kind of sheltered by my parents and I'm just getting out in the world and I haven't done much, I haven't partied much, I haven't done anything.

I just want to go out and just experience things. And then I hear advice from a person that says, you just need to go and buckle down and just work and grind it out in your early twenties. So you're better off in your thirties. Well, that might be good for another person, but right now what I really want to do is I just want to go and have fun.

I just want to go and live. Right. Other 20 something year olds may have done that starting from when they were like 17, but let's say I'd just been sheltered. Or vice versa, so I think it's really important to understand like what stage of, life we were at. And then from there, we're able to know what type of information is going to be helpful.

You know, , when I'm working with students, we talk about stages of transformation because the people that come to me, they're, people that are wanting [00:02:00] to become more peaceful, more centered. They want to connect to themselves. and We look at the transformational journey in four different stages, and every stage is very clear and different from the others.

And once a person finds out what stage they're at, then it can start to become more clear on what do they need. Until then, if a person is in stage one and myself or anybody else tells them to do something that is meant for a person in stage three, Well, not only does it not make sense, it's completely the wrong advice for them.

And if they were to try to follow it, they would become very, very frustrated and they're not able to move forward. So that's the first step. And it's really, really important. And I think most people kind of overlook this. And that's why we're talking about it today. Cause I feel like a lot of people, they don't look at where I'm at in my personal development right now.

So therefore they're just looking for advice on what to do and asking somebody, let's say how to improve their mental health. That's very [00:03:00] different when you're talking to a person who's in stage one versus somebody who's in like stage, stage three or four. And I think it's really important to first identify that, 

Stephen: you 

Mike: know.

And then after that, then a person can be able to tell if the advice is, is relative for them. 

Stephen: That makes sense. I mean, when you're talking about this, I, think of the movie Yes Man. Where, I don't know if you've seen it, but in the beginning, it's just a no, no, no, everything, nah, I'm okay. And then all of a sudden something happened.

He went to a seminar and say, yes, yes. And he got hypnotized into going to do things. And then, all of these crazy adventurous things started to happen in his life. And then at the end, , he thought the whole philosophy was supposed to, , just say yes to every single thing out there.

And then eventually the main mentor is like, no, we only did that for you because you are so dang sheltered that you needed to go to the opposite. But of course you can choose yes and no, what you want to [00:04:00] do. And so essentially that's another huge thing as well is just really figuring out where you are at.

Like you were saying, another example that comes to me right now is when I was guiding people through meditation. And one of the guides that I would say to them would be, Hey, if you are used to just pushing through everything. No matter how painful, no matter what, you're just going to continue doing it.

What I'd like you to do is once you get to like 95%, I want you to just take a break and just chill out. And then I also said, for those of you who find yourself being more lazy. Or wanting to quit early on. I want you to push and I want you to keep going at it, even when it's very uncomfortable. I mean, everybody has their own temperament, but [00:05:00] essentially to be able to discover a new range, it kind of shows them more of themselves in life.

I think that's, you know, when you're talking about , the four stages, That also gives a really good framework understanding of how someone can really gauge, is this actually for me right now? Does this make sense? So what's the first stage? 

Mike: Yeah, well, that, that makes a lot of sense. The first stage is what we'll call victimhood.

And it's basically where, we see ourselves as a victim of life, as a victim of other people, victim of circumstances, this stage, you feel very powerless. You don't feel like you have control. You feel like you're, constantly chained up. You're constantly hitting walls and the walls are really big.

You can't get around it. You can't go through it. You just don't have the power. Oftentimes people in this stage, they complain a lot. They blame a lot. And they, almost feel kind of, [00:06:00] kind of hopeless. There's like a sense of that. And this stage is really important to recognize if a person's there, because when they recognize this, what they need to do in this stage is they need to change their mindset.

They need to create a different sense of self. Their sense of self in this point is I'm a victim. I don't have the power to do things. I'm being controlled by other people, being controlled by all of these, you know, the law and by my genetics, Hey, it's because I'm a man. That's why I can't do it because of my ethnicity.

All of these things, they're not taking responsibility. So a person like this needs to learn things like positive affirmations. They need to learn how to change their language and get out of their head of constant complaining and blaming. And this is really important for a person doing this stage. This is where a lot of people are writing things like, gratefulness, be grateful of all the things you do in your life, you know, write it down every single [00:07:00] morning, post positive affirmations on your wall, read them constantly.

That is really important for a person that's here because that's what really needs to happen. They need to change their identity of themselves from I am a victim to I can do it, I have the power, I'm in control, I'm responsible. So that's where they need to get to for a person that's in this stage. 

Stephen: Yup mean, I, , I can see it happening and helping, but I guess it, it also matters, just how deep someone does that work as well.

Because I can also imagine someone writing down, I am powerful, I am powerful, but still feeling just weak inside. Well, 

Mike: doing the work correctly is another story, but if somebody was in stage one and they were to do something that was for a person in stage three, it would make completely no sense to them.

And if they try to do it, it would just not [00:08:00] help at all. They'll probably feel worse. So, you know, that's another story of how to do it correctly and all these things, but what they need to aim for when they're in stage one is to be able to change the way they speak to themselves in their head and change their sense of self from I am weak to I am in control because this person feels that they don't have control for anything.

So they have to develop this idea that I am in control. I am in control. I am in control. I got this. I got this. I got this. I can do this. Right. That's really important. Now, a person in stage two, that's not needed. If a person's in stage two and they're like, they're focusing on, I'm in control. I'm in control.

Yeah. You're going to be stuck and you're never going to get out of there. You're going to be stuck in stage two. You can't progress. You see? That's exactly what you don't want to do once you're in stage two already. But that's way 

Stephen: better than stage one. 

Mike: That is better in stage one. 

Stephen: But 

Mike: you see, that's the thing.

If somebody is in stage one and they got really good at [00:09:00] developing the sense of control, I got this. Now they're in stage two and they don't let it go. They're never going to move on. 

Stephen: So what would you say the benefits of stage two are and, what's needed to progress in the next stage? 

Mike: Stage two is force and control.

It's when we are starting to get good at controlling things. Trying to get good at forcing our will to make things happen. We're moving forward in our life, 

Stephen: right? 

Mike: We feel so much more power. And stage one, man, it's like, I don't have power to do anything. I can't manifest this stuff. I feel so powerless.

Stage two is yes, I'm getting things done. It's a really good feeling. The downside though, is that I get really attached to the outcome of what I do. When I do something that I succeed in, I'm high fiving myself. I'm celebrating, you know, really, really excited and happy. I feel really good about myself and then vice versa, when I fail at something, when I don't get what I want, I get [00:10:00] frustrated.

I get stressed. I feel a lot of pressure. I beat myself up. So this control and force is not just me doing it to other people. It's me doing it to myself as well. So a person in this stage, if they were to go and try to control more, try to control more, I got this, I can do it, you see, that doesn't help them because they can already do that.

That's why they're in stage two. If they were to try to keep working on that, that's just going to keep them grounded even more and stuck in stage two. So they need to do something completely different. If they want to truly move on, right? They want to move on. They want to develop themselves more. They want to get into, where they can have more peace in their life.

because A person in stage two is stressful, they feel pressure, they're agitated. They're always up and down in their emotions, right? When they're winning, their emotions are great. Oh yeah, I'm so excited. Life is great. And then when they're not, man, life is so hard. And so this is [00:11:00] not a really good place to be.

This is where people get burned out big time because you can't last. You know, fluctuating like that all the time. So then now a person stage two, they need to learn how to be able to let go. They need to learn how to surrender. They need to learn how to be able to not be attached to the outcome of things.

So the way to do that, what the person specifically need to do is they have to start to focus on feeling more and silencing their conscious thoughts. As much as possible, conscious thoughts, meaning the voice in their head. You see in stage one, don't try to silence your conscious thoughts. That's not going to help you.

You need to go and change them. But now a person's stage two, who's getting things done. They're moving forward in their business. They're, making things happen. So you know, when you're talking to this type of person. Because they speak, Oh yeah, I got this. I can do this.

Oh yeah, I just need to do this and this and this. I go, you know, like they speak as if, yeah, like they feel confident about their ability to get things [00:12:00] done. Right. You know, this type of person, you know, when you're talking to a stage one, because all they do is complain and talk about how hard it is, how much they can't do it and how everything's against them and struggle, , you know, this type of person.

So this stage two person, they need to silence those positive thoughts that they have in their mind. They need to focus on silencing that voice and focusing on feeling. So they're able to feel and start to release all the stress and worry and pressure in their body. 

Stephen: That's a hard gap to fill. 

Mike: It's, it takes time.

Stephen: Number one, you're going to have to silence all the positive thoughts and kind of, not rely on those anymore, and then you have to go into the shitter of all the shitty feelings that you blocked out. And feel all of that. 

Mike: That 

Stephen: doesn't sound too fun.

Yeah, 

Mike: but the feeling are theirs. It's kind of like, oh man, I got to go into this dirty closet and clean out my stuff. 

Stephen: Right. 

Mike: It's your [00:13:00] closet, your stuff. Yes, you got to. But that's if somebody really wants to move into the next stage. And if they don't, well, they can be okay. Just stay in there.

They're getting things done in their life, but they'll always be stressful. They'll always be unsatisfied. They'll always feel a lack of fulfillment, no matter what they win. 

Stephen: Especially in Western societies. It feels like so many people are in the first two, either a victim saying, Hey, the government is this and that, that's why I'm this way.

That's why I'm poor. That's why, et cetera. Not moving forward. Yeah. Yeah, not moving forward. And then there's also the second type or in stage two where especially if they're really just going after things, , they can be, let's say, outwardly successful. They can be financially well off.

They can have, a beautiful partner, whatever it is. Right. And. I think a lot of times that's [00:14:00] essentially where kind of the Western dream stops. And that's almost like the final destination. 

Mike: And they start to question it because they obtained the dream life on the outside. But the inside they're like, man, this doesn't feel good.

This, I feel frustrated. I feel stressed. I thought I'd feel happy at this stage, but I'm not. Feeling happy, you know? 

Stephen: And usually that's when they almost forcefully and they move into stage three move to the stage three . 

Mike: Yeah. Or, they just think maybe I just need to win some more. I just need to build it bigger.

Mm. Just gain some more Mm-Hmm, , I just need to find another more better person to satisfy my life. You know, people will just make up stuff because they don't know. And that's why we need to talk about this. Because there's so many people there, once you're out of stage one and you're doing things and you're moving forward in your life, at some point, when you reach a level of success, whatever a person would consider to be [00:15:00] success, this question starts to come up and many people don't realize that there's something else they need to really do.

They're looking for it, but they don't know what it is. So automatically they just think, eh, what am I doing questioning about? Then we just put my head down and just kind of keep going. And what happens is, well, at some point, this feeling of lack will come up again. Either that, or they will just get burned out.

And then at some point people will get so tired. They just burned the bridge. They just burned the whole thing. They go, forget this. I'm tired. The wins are not exciting anymore. I don't care about them. It really doesn't matter. I don't need any of this stuff. Before I desired it cause I didn't have it.

Now I have it. I don't care about it. You know? And I think, people like you and I know how that is, and that's exactly what we did. We just burned it, just left it, , but then here's the thing, even if somebody left it, that's fine. But you have to understand the stage you're going into and you have to understand what you need to do.

If [00:16:00] not, you're going to be lost, which is we're in Bali and you, and I know how many people come here after stage two, they're moving into stage three, but they have no idea what it is they're looking for or what to do. Besides the fact that the old path, the old life isn't right. And what happens is that they come here for a little while.

Trying to look for this sense of happiness, they can't really find it. And then they've realized, well, maybe I'm just wasting time. Maybe I just need to go back and just kind of start something again. And they go back home, but they came here for a reason. They're looking for something. And this is why we need to explain what is stage three.

What is it they're really looking for? What do they need to obtain? And if they don't find it, then what happens is they go back to stage two by default. They can't move on to stage four. They go back to stage two and then they start doing their work. They start building again and they run to the same thing.

Stephen: So what advice, if we go back to just giving advice and knowing [00:17:00] what would you say that stage two person needs to know in order to get to stage three? 

Mike: They need to know how it's like to not be attached to things. Because their sense of self is completely connected to their wins, connected to what they accomplish, connected to how they look, connected to this identity, connected to this family, connected to this group of people, this title, they have such strong attachments.

You see before in stage one, they feel powerless. They don't accomplish anything in their life that they really want. Now in stage two, they're accomplishing things in their life and they are gripping onto it with both arms, just attached. So now to move on to the next stage, they need to learn how to let go.

They have to learn how to let go, because if not, their sense of identity, their sense of self worth is completely attached to what they do, to their mental stories, to their body, to everything. And then they're doing all they [00:18:00] can to try to maintain all of these balls in the air. And you're not going to be able to maintain them forever.

You're not going to win every single time. We win and we lose. That's just life. So they can't handle the losses. That's the problem. the problem. It's not that they're losing. The problem is not that. It's just like every moment of life we're getting older. That's not a problem. But some people are having a problem with that.

Right? The problem is that you're not okay with it. You can't handle it as it comes, you know? So they have to learn how to detach from it. And there's a specific way of what they need to do to detach from it. And if they don't do that, then all they're going to do is walk away for temporary just for a short term, like many people do when they come here to Bali and then they go back home, pick it all up again.

Stephen: Okay. 

Mike: So the detachment, 

Stephen: how to 

Mike: detach. Oh, go ahead. 

Stephen: I remember I had to make that transition in some point in my life, but it was very [00:19:00] hard especially because, the way that I knew how to get things was by force. It's like, I'm gonna make this happen. And to, kind of start to shed that can feel very difficult because it almost felt like I was also going back to stage one.

Right? So I think, there's a vulnerability. being in stage three or feels like that, making that transition. 

Mike: It's like you have the power, but you're not forcing your power among people. You have the power to wield things, but you're not using your power to do it. And it's very different when somebody is used to doing it, because in stage one, you don't have the power in stage two, you do.

And in stage three, you're learning how to not do it that way. Like you said, right? You were not forcing it, even though we have the ability to what needs to happen for stage three is a person needs to silence their conscious [00:20:00] thoughts and feel their body because if a person can silence their conscious thoughts, silence that voice in their head, this helps them start to let go of their strong sense of self.

It starts to decrease the power of their ego. If they don't do this. Then there is a very strong sense of self, which means I am this, I am that, I deserve this. It's always me, me, me, and that me is really, really loud in their head. And so they have to silence this out. So this way their ego can decrease.

And it's not taken over their life, like it is in stage two. And at the same time, the way they do that is by taking their attention and bringing it into their body and feeling, because as they feel, they're also able to simultaneously let go of the [00:21:00] feelings of fear and stress and agitation.

And therefore they start to move towards feeling more peaceful. And when they feel more peaceful, they're able to feel at ease when something is happening. That's how they can become unattached to things, to outcomes. Because when something happens that we don't like, we feel really agitated inside the body.

We feel like something is off, like it's wrong of what's happening. But now imagine if we don't feel that. We know that what we want did not happen, but the way we feel is ease. Relax. So, therefore, our feelings is not causing a reaction of upsetness, anger, all of that. And then our mind, instead of the, I can't believe it and all that complaining and narrative, our mind can be quiet.

So now we're present and we are aware of the situation, aware [00:22:00] that we have lost. And I say lost because there's never a problem when we win. So it's always when we lose at 

Stephen: something. 

Mike: So we are aware of the loss. There's not a verbal dialogue of I lost. I can't believe this. What's going to happen now. And what else, , You see, so now the mind is silent, not making all the noise.

We're just aware of our loss. Our body feels at ease. And now the combination of those two things. Is how we can become unattached to the outcome of life. So to do this, we need to be able to slow things down. So this is when you see somebody who's in it, grinding it out, right? Working their butt off, building life.

And then suddenly you see them take time off and you go, Hey, what's up? What's going on? And they go, Oh, you know, just been thinking, I've been just need to take a break. I'm feeling a little burned out. Now, at this point, this [00:23:00] person. Experience that wall. They know how it's like, but if they don't understand this, they're just going to run back in.

They think they need to take a temporary break, but what they really need to do is accomplish what it is that we're talking about. They need to do these two things. And if they don't do this two things, their little break is very, very short term. They don't know how to be able to feel into their body.

They don't know how to be able to silence that conscious mind, nor do they even realize that they need to. So what happens is they take a break. Right. And then they go off to somewhere like Bali or anywhere else in the world. They're not involved in the day to day. So therefore they're not doing activities that causes them to get stressed because they're taking a break, right?

Doing fun stuff, whatever it is. And then because they never learned how to silence their conscious mind or to feel better in their body, they will just naturally feel better because they're not doing things that create a attachment. They're not doing things that matter. They're just playing. Okay. [00:24:00] And then once they go back to everyday life, they're still attached to all this stuff.

And then they find it all coming back again, you see. So all they did was just take a break, but they didn't really move on into the next stage, but the person need to do was to learn how to silence those conscious thoughts, realizing that what they're doing is they're decreasing. Their sense of self decreasing their ego.

So they're able to not be so attached to things and they're feeling into their body. So they're learning how it's like to be able to stay at ease and relax and be calm. So they don't react. And most of the time to do this, they need to take a break or they need to really scale back and spend a lot of time going inwards because at time, you need time to take your attention inwards and feel your body.

You need time to go ahead and sit there in, in meditation and silence your thoughts and not constantly be bombarded by all the stimuli that happens when we are fully engaged, making things happen in life, plans and [00:25:00] work and judging and meetings and all this stuff. Our mind is running 24 seven. That is not the type of life situation that will support a stage three person.

I have theories that it possibly can happen, but. It takes a high, high level of discipline to still be engaged in doing a lot of stuff and still try to go through stage three. I have a theory that I think it could happen, but I think most people will not be able to do it because it takes too much discipline.

I mean, we're talking about needing to meditate for probably about, hour and a half a day, like 45 minutes in the morning, 45 minutes in the evening, having very, very, very structured habits for practice and all this stuff. So they're able to silence their mind and connect to their body while they're actually engaging in everyday life stuff.

I think it could happen, but the possibility is so slim. It would not be something I recommend. 

Stephen: I mean, [00:26:00] that might be the reason why so many people are, in stage one and two. Right. Because to find the time to do, to get to stage three, a lot of people don't feel they have the time to do all of it. Well, they have to make the space for that.

Mike: They have to make the time because they have to do, if they don't make the time to do it twice. It definitely is. It's like the way I see it is if somebody, like somebody may say that, well, I don't have the time, then I would say, well, then you are choosing to live your life in a certain way. Nobody has the time, but we need to make the time if it's important enough for us.

Right. And this is why most people won't make the time, not until they are tired of their current life. And when they are, they will make the time because what it takes is sacrifice. They have to sacrifice things because we only have a certain amount of time every day. But you see, a person in stage three is doing that, like they're, walking away from life.

They're having to take a [00:27:00] break. So this way they can learn how to connect. If a person in stage one does this, they're going to feel very, very lonely. They're going to feel a lot of negativity. They'll still feel powerless. You see, 

Stephen: because 

Mike: That's not the right thing to do for them. What they need to do is know how it's like to have that power.

Because you see a person in stage three has power because they've been in stage two already. But they are choosing not to use their power, but they know how to, they know how to go ahead and command things. They know how to make things happen, you see, but they are choosing not to, because they're learning how to let it go, let go of the force.

Person in stage one doesn't know even how to do that. They never been through it. So to try to tell him to let go, it's like, no, that's the wrong move, totally the wrong thing. You see, this is why it's so important because we hear somebody go, man, , you don't need to keep doing all of these things.

You know, we're human beings. We're not human doings. Well. Yes. You see, that's why, [00:28:00] yes, that's right. That's true. I remember being so confused before. Cause I'll go, right, right, right. I, yeah, human, human beings not do it and not do. And then I stayed in stage three for a long, long time. Cause I'm thinking, right, I don't need to do that.

I just need to go and just be okay with what is, and just not need to do anything. And I'm sitting around twiddling my thumb and feeling very off. I'm like, what? But this is what I'm supposed to do, right? Just be right. You hear so much things. Oh, you need to just be, you need to just be, just be well, what stage of person are you talking to?

Because just be, that means you're talking to somebody who's in stage three. But if someone's in stage one, which we just discussed, most people are stage one and two. So therefore, the person we're talking to people that are in stage two, but then just get there. They've been there long enough, they're ready to get out.

You see, you've just got into stage two, you're not ready to get out. You need to go ahead and build that power up. 

Stephen: Yeah, 

Mike: right. You gotta make things happen. So when someone goes, just be no man, don't listen to them. [00:29:00] No, grind it out, bro. You see, that's why it's so confusing. That's why people are spinning their wheels.

Cause they have to understand where they're at so they know what to listen to. If not, it's so confusing. And then you just might as well not listen to anybody and just kind of move forward. But even that. When they get to the end of a stage, they're going to find that something is off and they don't know what to do, and they can't get out.

Stephen: That reminds me a lot. I'm thinking of the spiritual communities right now. I'm just thinking, like, a decent amount of people who start to flock towards that direction and do the cacao ceremonies and the ecstatic dances, whatever it is. When you're talking about these different stages. Like I can just imagine and just see that there's still a decent amount of even people in stage one who are still in that victim mentality and they're trying to, let's say, heal that or change that.

But the approach in terms of the spiritual [00:30:00] community is generally a stage three approach. And so they're telling them just let go and just let things flow. And especially if they've never really gone through stage two, like you said, it's the wrong place to send them to. It's the wrong advice to give them at that time.

Mike: Cause they don't know how it's like to be able to have power. They don't know how it's like to feel empowered. They don't know how it's like to go ahead and make things happen. You see, , when we're in stage three and we learn how to let go, now we're ready for stage four and stage four is the middle way, the stage four is the middle between stage two and three.

You see, it's like when a person feels powerful, they know they're powerful, they know they can manifest. And they're going after what they want. Stage three is not going after what they want. So stage three has to take a step back and really feel within, [00:31:00] but stage four, you're going after what you want, but you're not attached to the outcome anymore because they know how it's like to let go of most of their ego.

Their conscious mind is much more silent. So therefore they're not attached to so much stuff. So when they're not so attached, when they're going after things, whether or not they win or not, there's not a constant fluctuation of emotion. There's not a constant agitation and stress. Now they're able to go after everything due to things that are needed and whatever is happening, they're still relatively balanced and at peace.

Now, this doesn't mean that, that never fluctuates because at some point they're going to go after bigger things. Their goals start to evolve, their life evolves, and they're going to face challenges that's going to be tough, but they're still not a stage two. You see, because once you go through stage three, you have a reference point.

It's just the same thing, like one to two. Once you go through stage two, you have a reference point of how it's like to be in power, [00:32:00] to make things happen. When you go through stage three, you know how it's like to be at peace. You know how it's like to be unattached. You know how it's like to connect to yourself.

So therefore, even when person is facing big challenges, that's rocking them and they'll feel emotional, get sad, they'll get angry, but they know how to return back to that place of centeredness inside. Just like a person in stage two, there's times where they're they're going after what they want.

They're making things happen. They're forcing things. And sometimes challenges are so big, it rocks them. And they go, Oh my God, man, I feel so stuck. I feel like I can't get things done, but they know how it's like to feel. power They know that, Hey, I got things done before. I'm just facing a bigger challenge. I can do it.

There's reference. You see? So that's why once a person reaches stage four, they're able to start to have more balance in their life. Until then they're either in state one, feeling victim, stage two, forcing or stage three, they're checked out. They're not even in the [00:33:00] game. They're on the sidelines.

Right. They're like preparing and then now they go back in and see stage one and stage three, it looks very similar. They're not really moving forward that much in their life. Like you talk about the, all the spiritual people, the spiritual community, , most of the time, their life is just kind of hang out, right?

And then you hear them and they go, yeah, well, I'm just by connection. I love connecting, connecting, connecting. And they go, well, I'm just here to connect. Are you, are you really here in this world just to connect to others? Or are you here in this world? Connection is part of it, but there's something else.

You know, is your value simply just to connect to these people? That's it. Right. I know there are some people that are, but there are too many people saying that that's what they're doing. And in reality, there's so much more things that they need to do, but because they're in stage three, that's what they're doing, right?

Because we still got to live our life even if we're in stage three. So what do you do? Well, you're not giving that much value to people in general, right? You're just going to hang out, doing stuff, , living life and connecting with it. You know, so [00:34:00] that's why you're not really moving forward that much in life, similar to stage one.

But the difference is stage one, they don't feel like they have power. People in stage three know that they have power, but they're not directing it towards anything. They're just happy kind of just being there, connecting , and just being, you know, kind of floating there. So they lack a lot of purpose.

Most people in stage three do. And so then they do stuff in life still, you know, they'll go and travel around and they'll do stuff like that, but there's not a strong sense of purpose. Most people in stage three are not very grounded. There's no need. You know, they need to let go, right? Let go is different than grounding, right?

Grounding is the opposite. You're ready to build, let go. You're airy. You're very detached. And we have a lot of people coming through here, you can't hear people come in. They're like, there's always bouncing around. Somebody that's bouncing around is in stage three, but most people don't realize what they need to do.

So they continue to bounce around, but then they feel like they can't [00:35:00] bounce around because . It takes a lot of work to go and do that, you know, and to travel around, look for places, all this stuff. 

Stephen: Yeah. 

Mike: , they can't build anything. But they feel like this is what I need to do because they haven't found what they really need to accomplish.

So therefore they think the lifestyle is just bouncing around and then what happens is they're in this really interesting place where they're kind of happy with life, but at the same time they're empty. They feel dissatisfied, but they don't know what to do. They feel stuck. Just like stage one. I want to bounce around.

I like to, I like this lifestyle. It's so freeing, but I can't get shit done. 

Stephen: Yeah. You see. And that's what forces you to go into stage four. 

Mike: Right. If they knew, but they don't know, then, then they try to establish and build while they bounce around. And that's like saying, I want to lose weight and I'm gonna eat cake every day.

Stephen: Yeah. 

Mike: It doesn't work that way. You got to have a way to get grounded. If you want to really build, something in your life, 

Stephen: you know? 

Mike: [00:36:00] So if there are the few people that bouncing around is the way they build, but most people don't. 

Stephen: Can't, can't do that. That's it. They 

Mike: got to have some consistency, some structure in life.

Stephen: Yeah. You know, once you're at that level, stage four, now, essentially that's like pretty much self mastery. You understand the yin and the yang, you know how to act when you need to, and then you know how to also be relaxed and at peace inside. And then essentially you move through life, having that balance within as you do anything.

Yeah. 

Mike: Yeah. So the summary of these four stages, we have stage one victim feel powerless and you need to gain power, your sense of self, your ego is, I don't have power. I feel I'm a victim of life. I don't take responsibility over life because I don't have the power to. Stage two is control and force. I'm responsible for life, I'm the one making things happen, and [00:37:00] I force things if I need to, but I'm attached to the outcome of things.

Strong sense of self. Stage three is surrender. Surrendered, but no purpose. This is where we're learning how to go ahead and detach from our sense of self. This is where we're learning how to really feel within. And then stage four is we're back in the game. We are making things happen, but we're not attached to the outcome of things anymore.

Not the same way. And now we're learning how to be in the middle way. I call stage four is like the middle way. Because we are following our purpose. We're doing the thing that we feel the most called to do, but we're not attached to that thing. So therefore our ego is much, much, much smaller. It's still there, but it's much smaller.

So small, that's not creating a big problem in our life. Now we're able to go after what we want, but we're able to stay centered and, connected to ourself. Beautiful. [00:38:00] All right, guys. So that's it for today's podcast. I hope you guys enjoyed it. There's a lot of things that can be covered about these four stages.

We're really just kind of going over the overview, , because from there we talk about things. What are the signs of somebody who's in a relationship in stage one versus stage two, three, and four? 

Stephen: You know, 

Mike: what are the type of, things that a person looks for in business?

How do they act in business? How do they act , in their diet and their health regimen and stuff like that? What are the belief systems of a person in stage one versus two, three and four? There's so many different ways that could really help somebody identify the stage that they're in. And also help them be able to move forward into the next.

So I think this will be a subject we'll dive more into in the future. 

Stephen: Awesome guys. Thanks for tuning in once again, and we'll see you on the next [00:39:00] episode.