053: What You Need To Know About Coffee!

The podcast explores the effects of coffee consumption on mental and physical states. The speakers discuss how coffee induces alertness but hinders focus and creates bodily tension due to its impact on the sympathetic nervous system. They share personal experiences of withdrawal symptoms and strategies to manage them, advocating for alternative drinks like teas, matcha, and cacao as milder sources of caffeine. Overall, they critique coffee's role in perpetuating a cycle of reliance and suggest healthier alternatives for sustained energy and focus. 

Connect with Mike Chang:
- Instagram: @mikechangofficial
-Youtube: Mike Chang
- Website: www.flow60.com

Connect with Stephen Yeh:
-Instagram: @iamstephenyeh
-Twitter: @iamstephenyeh

Transcript

Mike: [00:00:00] So I remember where I used to have about four cups of coffee by the time it's noon. And those were the days where if I didn't drink a cup of coffee by 10 AM, like I wake up around nine back in the day, 830 to nine. If I didn't have a cup of coffee by 10, I'm about to fall asleep. I'm dozing off. and Back then I had no idea what coffee was doing for me.

All I knew was, if I drink this, it gives me energy, keeps me alert. And if I don't, well, sometimes I might feel tired. That's about the extent of what I knew about coffee. And I would drink it to just help me stay awake. I remember also, there was this time, I remember I needed to finish up a lot of work. I was probably about 20, 27, [00:01:00] 28 at the time.

And I remember it was, 1 32 AM and it was pretty late. I needed to finish writing out these, uh, this, I remember I would make a cup of coffee, like in the middle of the night there and I would sit there and I would pound it down and then I would finish up my work and I would And there's this one night where it took me about 30 minutes more to finish the work after I drank the cup of coffee and I went straight to bed, no problems, just fell asleep.

I had so many nights like that. And, , just looking back, the things that was happening in my body, I had no idea of, and it's so important. It's so important to learn about what's really going on. And that's something that I think many people are a little naive about because. Oftentimes people will [00:02:00] tell me, well, I drink it and I'm fine.

Yeah, I drink it. It doesn't make me jitter. I drink it. It doesn't give me any weird, heart palpitations or anything. No, I feel fine. Yeah, just like how I would drink coffee in the middle of the night and fall asleep, yeah, I felt fine too. But little did I know what was really happening inside.

So, full disclosure, I still like coffee. I still drink it, just not every day. And I Do my best to keep it at about max one cup because two cups and I'm just, feeling too much of the effects of it and that's actually a good thing. I don't want to not feel, , the real effects of coffee and I know you and I, we've, uh, you know, we tried a lot, a handful of different types of stimulants, supplements, you know, what's your take on coffee?

Because I know now you do a lot of matcha now, , or mushrooms, but for all of that, did you drink a lot of coffee before? 

Stephen: I [00:03:00] was never a big coffee drinker. I drink it once in a while. But I do remember when I was younger, I think it was also, maybe it was like not as good quality, whether it's Starbucks or somewhere like that, where when I would take it, I would feel the effects pretty quickly.

I would feel like this dizziness going on in my head, as well as like my body shaking pretty shortly after. So for me, it was not a good experience for me to continue. Using like, I just felt like I was wired, and so. I had to find some other ways to, just boost my energy and things like that.

In, in your experience, , cause you were talking about when you were taking it younger, you, had a bunch of coffee throughout the day, but when did you actually start experiencing the negative side effects [00:04:00] of it? 

Mike: You know, I've always having the negative side effects.

But I didn't actually realize, I never checked until I was about 30, 32, you know, so this was years later, years later, you know, I think I was about 32 years old and when I realized what coffee was actually doing to me. Yeah, because I say that because most of, well, not most, but many people like for you is different because like you said, you drank it and it felt weird.

It felt off feeling now this isn't for me. Well, because you were able to feel the effects of your body. You were more sensitive to your body, but there were a lot of people like myself that wasn't very sensitive to our bodies. So there are still effects happening, but we have no idea. And I think a lot of this could contribute to the amount of years that I've taken stimulants.

You know, like, [00:05:00] being in fitness, I started taking supplements at like 16, and trying all kinds of different supplements, all throughout my life. So I think in my, by the time I'm in my mid, late twenties, the receptors are not as strong, they're not 

Stephen: as clear.

Mike: Yeah. Coffee is nothing. I remember , there was a time to where I drank pre workouts as coffee. Like we didn't even work out. We just drank, a pre workout drink just to stay up. Like there wasn't even a workout. So I think that's really important to understand the effects of things because many people are not feeling it because once we.

Lose that connection to our body. We have no idea that it's happening, but the problem is because people aren't trying to connect to their body. They just like me thought, well, connecting to my body, let me flex my, my muscles and I can feel my muscles flexing. Let me touch my body. Yeah, I can feel it. Yeah.

The nerves are, are there right. Versus I have severed nerve [00:06:00] endings and literally this area is numb, but if I can feel it when I touch my body, oh yeah, I'm connected to my body. What many people think when they talked about connecting to their body, feeling their body. And I was able to feel my body at that level, most of my life.

So, there wasn't seen to be an issue. But it wasn't until I was about 32 when I was able to connect to my body much deeper because I had an increase in awareness. I was able to become more aware and I was able to go deeper into my body. And when I did, at first it was numb. I couldn't really feel much of it.

It was so subtle. And I had to work on clearing so much stuff in my body. I had to go and clear out so much blockages. And the more I cleared out, the more sensitive I became. The more I was suddenly able to feel all these sensations happening inside. It was like discovering a whole new world. And [00:07:00] then, as that was happening, then I started to feel the effects of coffee.

And I would have a drink, and with that time I cut it out because I found out that it would stop me from feeling deeper. So I cut it out, and as I started to go deeper and deeper, I remember I would introduce it back in, and Then it'll be kind of like what you said. It would feel just off. I would feel like I'm just shaking all over.

I suddenly went from feeling calm and just kind of chilling to anxiety, nervous, anxious. And then that was the first time I recognized that this is what it actually always did to my body. I just wasn't able to Let 

Stephen: me ask you then, because I'm just thinking if you were not able to feel it previously, because let's just say your body's dense.

And you are not as receptive. In [00:08:00] certain times and areas, wouldn't that in some ways be beneficial though? Let's say you just needed a quick boost of energy, you can just take it. You don't feel the negative effects of it, but it seems like you still get a boost of energy. 

Mike: Well, you know. I guess 

Stephen: that would be a pro for that.

For sure, there's definitely cons. 

Mike: Yeah, yeah. Well, I remember, like I mentioned, I, I couldn't stay awake. I was so dependent on coffee. My adrenal glands was so exhausted. I would wake up and within one hour I was dozing off. That's right. I was literally dozing off because of how bad it was.

So it became really, really dependent. Hmm. Yeah, yeah. I mean, for somebody who's your body's. You have extreme adrenal fatigue. You find yourself so low in energy. Yeah. You drink some coffee, it'll help you feel better, but whenever we're not dealing with the real issue, we're just covering it up [00:09:00] and all coverups will eventually catch up, but I think short term.

Yeah. I think I did it and got eventually better from it. But it's somebody's choice that they would have to make, you know, I can't tell everybody, just cut out coffee, just cut it out because I still drink it sometimes, you know, and I honestly, like, I like the way it tastes. I like the way smell.

I like everything about coffee besides the way it makes me feel. It's like, yeah, you know, it's like, I like ice cream, but if I eat too much of it, , I'll see the extra rolls. But I, I like it, you know, so that's why this is an interesting topic because I know there's so many people like me, that's just, they know a lot of the effects of coffee, but they just don't care.

They go, you know what? I'll, I'll take the effects like somebody who is smoking, right? All the smokers out there, come on, they all know what's doing to their lungs, but they really just don't [00:10:00] care. They go, I'll sacrifice that part of me to enjoy the cigarette. I think the point of, of really talking about coffee is.

Just so people can be aware, cause I think a lot of people, listen to this podcast and they are wanting to connect deeper with themselves. I think they're on this journey to, to learn how to let go of fear, let go of these emotions that are trapped, finding out how to clear their mind.

And I think it's important to recognize that coffee plays a big role because it causes adrenaline spikes in the body. It causes nervousness and shakes in the body. And so if a person is trying to release these emotions and feel more calm, drinking coffee will directly prevent somebody from doing that directly.

It's one of the most direct things that you can do to stop you from going deeper inside your body. If you are interested in meditation or if you are meditating, coffee is by far one of the worst things that you can [00:11:00] do because it will directly stop you from meditating. Because you got to be in a calm, relaxed state to meditate deep and coffee will do the exact opposite.

And as we know, we talked a lot about this as well in this podcast, whatever's happening in your body is happening in your mind. So when your body feels agitated and nervous and anxious, Your mind thinks in the same way. So for all those people, yeah, it's just, it's directly sabotaging your results.

Now for people that don't care about any of that, you know what, , you just need something to drink to get you alert. You just need to make it through the day. So be it, you know, so be it. There's many people in the world doing that, but I think when they're on this path, like you and I, they have to realize the effects of what coffee is doing.

Stephen: I mean, essentially, it's just a band aid solution, right? Because, kind of like what you said, your adrenals and your health was not optimal, even though, like, physically, if this was, like, your bodybuilding days, it looks like [00:12:00] you're built out of stone and one of those Asian god of fucking massive muscles.

But, like you said, you woke up and you would just be tired. And so you've gone through the path of just clearing your system up and then now, as you're more and more clear, you can really just feel more of the subtle effects of everything that you start to take in nowadays. And even when I have coffee once in a while, I can definitely tell it gives me like a boost.

I'm more alert, you know, from time to time I take it as well, especially if I've had a long night, didn't sleep so well. And it, it does see it's not all negative, right? It does have some benefits, but I think it's one of those things. Like you said, use it sparingly and don't you 

Mike: ever notice a change in, reaction in your reactions when you drink coffee, change my reaction.

[00:13:00] Yeah. Like, like my mood. 

Stephen: Yeah. Like 

Mike: the way, the way you may react. You know, like when, sometimes we're more reactive versus more 

Stephen: triggered, right? 

Mike: Triggered. You are just. Yeah, just, just react. You know, we react to something, right? That's kind of unconsciously doing something. Reason why I asked is because I noticed with coffee, I would react more.

It's like, there's, a limited amount of awareness. So therefore something happens. I just respond. I just, well, I just react, react, react, 

Stephen: react, 

Mike: you know, without, kind of being aware of what am I saying? What am I doing? What is this choice I just made? It's just more impulsive.

Stephen: I never really looked at something like that. I think it's also usually when I do drink it, I'm already generally in a lower state. And then, so if I do react, I'm attributing that to that, but [00:14:00] it makes sense. I mean, especially when I am conscious of like the little jitters inside of my body. That's the, the feeling and the action of just constantly wanting to react, whether good or bad.

Mike: Yeah. Catching patterns, catching old reactions. I found that was a really big struggle with coffee because even now when I drink coffee, I'm more alert, but it's not the type of alert that I really enjoy. There's a state where we are calm, we're very centered, and we're very present, so we can say we're alert, but coffee doesn't create that state.

With coffee, we are very alert, but there's no sense of focus. It's like we're just alert and we're just kind of looking at everything, but we're not able to focus on anything. [00:15:00] And it ends up creating a lot of busyness because we want to move and we want to move because our body feels this, jitter, but it's not able to stay very focused.

And so when I'm doing work, if I had too much coffee, like one cup is about the max, I'm even feeling one cup. If I ever do two cups, it's, I, I can't focus. I can't focus on the get up. I have to move around every five minutes. I want to get up. Cause it feels so uncomfortable in the body because oftentimes when we're working, I mean, we've got to sit there.

We've got to finish something, right? We got to sit there for who knows how long, for example, or just kind of stay focused on one thing. But what I found with coffee is that it doesn't create that type of focus. It only creates that alertness. And that alertness is coming because it's a response of the fight or flight, the nervous system, sympathetic nervous system firing, because the body is stimulating adrenaline.

So imagine like adrenaline is rushing through our body. And so therefore, the [00:16:00] way we look at the surroundings is stay alert, stay focused, because there's something that we need to react or respond to. So we're just looking, constantly looking for something that we need to respond to. That is kind of the feeling.

And so we kind of associate that with being awake, which technically yes, but because our body is tense. Because our body is creating a kind of adrenaline rush. So we're not, clear in our thoughts. We're very impulsive. Instead of making clear decisions, looking at all the moving parts, we're very impulsive on our thoughts, impulsive on our actions.

And that I think is a massive downside of coffee. But if somebody doesn't, if they drank coffee for a long time, because people are drinking coffee at a young age, you know, I don't remember when I started, but it was, , definitely before 18, uh, for sure, for sure. And so we don't have [00:17:00] a reference of how it's like to not act that way.

So over time, people just label themselves as I have ADHD. This is just the way I am. This is just my personality. Just, you know, just, just the way I operate, , and they don't know any different because they've used it for most of their life. And I was lucky enough to be able to. To withdraw from it long enough to recognize that there's all these things that it was actually affecting me on that's very interesting.

Stephen: Did you ever have withdrawals when you stopped? Yeah, 

Mike: yeah, 

Stephen: yeah. 

Mike: Headaches. What does that feel like? Well, the headaches, just pain, you know, just pain in my head, sleepiness, couldn't stay awake when I was drinking heavily. And I remember when I was drinking about four to six coffees a day, this is also really, really strong coffees, almost like espressos.

But except they weren't little glasses, they were full cups, full [00:18:00] cups. Yeah. I mean, I would go to the grocery store and I'd buy this, you know, the big packs of coffee, the economy, the family size, full, really, really, really strong cups. So when I stopped, cause I remember, I remember I thought to myself, I think something is up, I think.

When, if I can't stay awake after waking up in the morning for one hour, I think this coffee is affecting me, how come I can't stay awake without drinking coffee? I mean, I started to put two and two together, so I stopped drinking, I stopped drinking it, and I couldn't stay awake without drinking it.

So you know what I did? I set a timer where I, well, I started, I calculated that About every, I believe it was about every 15 minutes, it was a very short, short period of time. About every 15 minutes, I would start to doze off. So, I set a timer where every 15 minutes, [00:19:00] my timer would go off, and then I'd get up, and I would do jumping jacks, and push ups, 

Stephen: and burpees, 

Mike: and just whatever I felt like doing, and then I'd go back to work.

I did this. Every day because I, I needed to, to be able to work, but I couldn't, I couldn't stay awake. And eventually after a few weeks, I felt Normal, I didn't have to do as much. I remember one day when I would go past that 15 minutes and I wasn't tired. And I would push it to like 30, 45 minutes and realize that I'm feeling decently pretty good.

And I, yeah, that, that withdrawal was gone, but I did that for, for weeks. And for somebody like me, I kind of enjoyed it. It gave me another excuse to work out, but it helped. It really did. But that's how I got off coffee because I could not function. I'd fall asleep. So I did that every 15 [00:20:00] minutes throughout the day.

And I remember I, once, once I got to about the mid afternoon, I was okay. Once I hit about two, three o'clock in the, in the afternoon, I was able to not do that whole 15 minute thing, but starting off from about nine, about nine to 10 AM when I started working that till two. So I had to do that for about four hours, five hours.

Yeah, every, every 15 minutes I would get up and do something. 

Stephen: I mean, that's a much better alternative and right now I'm just imagining like energetically coffee versus getting up every 15 minutes and moving the body or you're essentially also during the exercise, you're also just cleaning and cleaning and moving.

And so, I mean, I'm sure you had to do that. I'm imagining you not having that process and what withdrawal would look like. I'm imagining that's why it's also so [00:21:00] difficult for people to even just stop. Is they would have to incorporate something like that. 

Mike: Yeah. Cause they would, probably just sit down and either doze off all sleep or they would be tired and they can't focus and concentrate.

Can't function at all. Can't do anything. And it's not even just the fact that they can't do anything. I think it's how they're upset. They're upset and they're angry and worried that they're not able to do anything. That makes it worse. And then now that feeling, you know, so you got low energy already.

And then now you have. You're upset, 

Stephen: you're 

Mike: upset because you can't stay awake and you can't do anything. So you're upset at yourself. And then after that, then you get worried, you're worried that, well, what happened if I don't do this work and all these consequences. 

Stephen: And 

Mike: so they either just become depressed or, they feel bad for a little while and this could last for, you know, a couple [00:22:00] of weeks.

Stephen: Don't use positive alternatives. I mean, yeah, it could even make it worse because it's not just feeling Angry or worried at that time. It's like that spiraling effect. And so what you did very well was you knew that, let's say, around every 15 minutes or so, you get super tired. And then you had an alternative to boost your energy up.

What's jumping jacks or? Or burpees or whatever it was to, to get that extra boost of energy enough for the next 15 minutes or so, and then repeat, repeat until you're able to clear out your system. Okay, makes sense. You 

Mike: know, I think there are some great alternatives now, back then I didn't know about, as well, if somebody, wasn't doing little exercises, you know, every 15, 20 minutes.

Mushrooms, [00:23:00] matchas, teas, uh, cacaos, I think those are all better alternatives. I found that personally, teas, cacaos, matchas, I feel much better on those than I do with coffee. But they still have caffeine. It doesn't create as strong of a jitter for myself, or as strong of a nervousness. But if I drink a lot of it, I still, I still feel it, I think I can handle, I can drink more of it, you know, to, cause it has lower in caffeine effects are, are more subtle, but I also have drinking many of that, you know, a good amount of every one of those.

And at the end is still created a very similar effect, but I'll just get there faster with coffee. I think those are decent alternatives. People ask about decaf as well, which is another alternative. But I think the issue [00:24:00] with decaf is number one, there's still a little bit of caffeine in it. And also number two, trusting the process of how they created it.

I don't know all the details on that besides the fact that many people have looked into it and found that the process to taking out the caffeine involves a lot of chemicals 

Stephen: and 

Mike: it's so much chemicals being used that it's actually more healthier to have the caffeine and all the effects that. That the caffeine has given you versus ingesting those chemicals.

So I've heard that from many people. Mushrooms, mushrooms has been something I found that has a lot of upsides with, very, very little downsides. It doesn't create any jitters because there's no caffeine. There's no crash that I found. It does create alertness. It creates focus, but depending on the type of mushroom, It a lot of times creates a sense of [00:25:00] ease on the inside, like a sense of balance.

And I always found, I found that to be very, very powerful effect because it gave the focus and the alertness that I was looking for without the jitters, without the crash. And, the one I use is HighVibe mushrooms, but it's like 10 blend. And it always, it always was very, it's always the same.

It lasts four hours and then it goes away and the effects are gone. Many people have tried it and they also told me for them, yeah, about four hours. So that's something that's, that's interesting. You know, I'd usually take it when I'm really low on sleep instead of turning to coffee, kicks in for four hours.

Yeah. And I, and I would do a heavy dose. Yeah. Yeah, I would do 10, 15 grams, sometimes 20 grams of mushrooms. Downside of it is, you have to cycle off of it. I think I've, I found that after about two weeks for myself, the [00:26:00] effects are minimum. I really don't feel it much. So then I have to lay off of it for about a week and then, then it feels fine.

The taste is so, so it's, uh, there's just different mushrooms. Yeah. , but this one, this one tastes pretty neutral for the most part. You can mix it with anything. So I always found that some people I know they drop it into, into coffee. Yeah. 

Stephen: Wow, again, they're trying to double dose in that focus.

I've tried it with coffee 

Mike: before. Oh man, it, it amplifies the coffee. So I would not do that. Now, if somebody was putting down like four or five coffees a day and they want to cut down to one cup of coffee, you know what, actually, then mushrooms adding to your coffee could be a good idea because it amplifies that one cup.

But you might as well go do one cup and do like four or five. You know, so I think that's a nice, nice little step down. Yeah. So that's a good alternative.[00:27:00] 

Stephen: Well, I'm glad that you're pretty much off of it and just having it once in a while. And. It seems like with pretty much everything, whether it's coffee or mushrooms or matcha, whatever it is, there's comes a point where it does make sense to use it for a period of time and then take a break.

I've had the same experience as well. When you take the same thing over and over, the effects just start to wane. Alright, so that's it for today's episode. So if you want to dive in deeper into feeling more of that inner world, you can definitely dive in more. Go check out flow60. com.