069: Meditation Retreats: Discover the Transformation and How to Sustain It

The podcast discusses the journey of a person dealing with emotional struggles and the different approaches to healing and self-discovery. It focuses on the value of deep introspective practices such as therapy, psychedelic experiences, and intensive meditation retreats (like 10-day Vipassana courses) in helping individuals uncover their inner wisdom and achieve personal growth. The speaker emphasizes the importance of integrating these insights into daily life to sustain the benefits, suggesting that without continued practice, the clarity gained during such experiences can fade quickly. The broader message is about accessing one's innate wisdom and the challenge of maintaining awareness and equanimity in everyday life, despite external distractions.

Connect with Mike Chang:
- Instagram: @mikechangofficial
-Youtube: Mike Chang
- Website: www.flow60.com

Connect with Stephen Yeh:
-Instagram: @iamstephenyeh
-Twitter: @iamstephenyeh

Transcript

Stephen: [00:00:00] So I had a call with someone very close to me. And recently, for the past months or so, we've been having pretty frequent calls. And she was going through some stuff. Like, she was kind of like, mild ish in depression. And she would cry randomly. There was something that happened in her life. And she tried to figure out what was going on.

But I think sometimes it's very difficult for a lot of people. To just really process and figure out what's actually going on. And she was like, Oh, it's a passion thing. I need to find something to do. And so 

Mike: Was she just confused on like purpose? Like what That I would say was Work wise? I would say Or something else?

Stephen: Well, looking back, I had a sense, but also after our recent conversation, I feel That was almost a [00:01:00] distraction to something deeper. And she was trying to figure out, Oh, I think I just need to find something, because one, her father just passed away. And so her trying to figure out her purpose was kind of interlinked, but not really.

And so. After months of having conversations with her, she finally got to that kind of breaking point where it's like, okay, I need to do something. And I just gave her three main choices that came to my mind that I went through myself and thought it could be quite beneficial for her is You can either one, you can go to a proper therapist.

Hopefully you find a good one, but that's like subjective. And it's like, you're going to almost depend on them to make sure that they're guiding you in the right way. So you can go that route can be helpful. [00:02:00] Actually, I was recommending if you do find one. It was more so find the ones who have integrated like MDMA or some type of psilocybin, just to really go deep into it, especially in the Bay Area.

There's more of those things out there. Or the other route is there are these 10 day meditations all around the world that you can go to, and that will help to kind of go deeper. And give you some insight. And I explained it to her in a way where it's like, if you take the psychedelics, it's usually, it'll take less time.

You can get insights much faster, but you also just have to be careful cause it can go wary. Yeah, I was gonna, I 

Mike: was gonna dive in and say, did you, uh, why not psychedelics? Why not the therapy without it? 

Stephen: I've never done therapy without it. So I, I wouldn't know, like the main thing that I've just been hearing in my sphere is that if you go [00:03:00] to especially talk therapy, if it does work, it takes forever.

It can take years and years. And I feel like for me, I found ways that are just much quicker and faster. And so I gave her kind of the psychedelic route or the just 10 day, you don't talk to anyone, you don't write anything. You're just meditating almost all day and taking breaks when you need to. So she chose that one.

You know, I told her generally that's the more challenging and painful way. But it's in general, because it's kind of elongated, it helps to integrate it better as well. And for her, she was like, top athlete in her days. And she was like, yeah, I'm going to go for the painful one. I like pain. So she chose that one.

And, uh, just recently she finished and there was a very big, night and day difference when I [00:04:00] talked to her. 

Mike: What was the difference that you saw? 

Stephen: She was just chill and she was calm. 

Mike: was she not before? 

Stephen: She could be before she was chill on certain things, like things that didn't matter to her that much, but certain things with like family or purpose, she was really struggling with.

But when I had the conversation with her after, She was just almost chill with everything. She's like, yeah, I still know certain things that I'm going to go do, but no, all is good. And before, because she was an athlete, her peak state. Is the adrenaline rush back before, and she's like, I, I missed that. I want to fucking get that feeling back and I want that feeling.

And she was trying to find that. And [00:05:00] then I asked her about that. When she got back, I was like, you didn't get that, right? Or not really. You didn't get it, but it's like, she feels, she felt content. And I was like, Yeah, you don't have that adrenaline rush, right? But you seem like you're really good. And

Mike: what did she figure out? What did 

Stephen: She accessed a new state. She probably had it before, but it was long lost gone. But she accessed that state once again of they essentially call like equanimity, which is just feeling calm and peaceful through just different scenarios and situations. And she was like, wow. This feels quite nice.

Mike: So did she ever figure out something new that she needed to do or some type of action? Or Did she just came to the realization that the new needed to happen and she's fine without even changing? 

Stephen: Yeah, good question. Um, we [00:06:00] didn't get to that part yet. So I can ask her on the next conversation, regardless if, if she had something new or if everything is good.

I think she was just in that state where she was like, yeah, everything is good. You know? And a lot of it was what she realized during the meditation was she could see how our minds make up stories of events that has happened in our life. And usually it's through our own lens and kind of warping what's actually happening in the environment with our own lens.

And so when she was. In the meditation got deep enough, she was able to see the lens that she had and then see in certain situations where they were like core memories or really big memories of how she was [00:07:00] looking through those experiences through that lens. And then when that lens kind of stripped away, she was like, Oh, It didn't really happen that way.

That actually helped free a lot of the kind of emotional baggage that was being carried. 

Mike: Yeah. They'd be doing those 10 day vipassanas, 10 day meditations. I think it's a really good option for people who just aren't so interested in experimenting with substances. 

Mm. Yeah. You 

know, which I think is perfectly fine, right?

Some people are, some people aren't. And even without the substances, you can have these deep realizations simply because you give yourself space to observe all the thoughts that are 

happening. Yeah. 

I think when the saying, everything that we need to know is inside [00:08:00] of us already. I think part of the meaning of that is something that she went through.

She already had the answer. these 10 day vipassanas. these 10 day meditation retreats. Nobody's sitting there analyzing your life. Nobody's sitting there giving you advice. None of that is happening. Unlike going to a therapist or going to a coach or going to, to where somebody's going, here's how it is, here's what's happening and here's what you need to change or here's what you need to, here's what you, it's like none of that is happening.

Stephen: Yeah. 

Mike: Everything that people have come to realize was all inside of them. And I think that is so powerful because not only do they come to clarity on how life is, but they also get to experience how they [00:09:00] were able to solve problems that they have without anybody telling them any information, all information was.

Inside of them all along and they just had to access it. 

Stephen: Essentially what they're accessing is just their own innate wisdom and their own innate knowing. So I feel, I believe all of us have that ability. It's just a matter of being able to access it. 

Mike: I think that can be a very clear intention, or if somebody was to ask me, like, what would you say, you know, your purpose is in helping people do, I think it will be that, helping people access what they already know, because We talked before about how we have ways of looking at things.

We have ways of, this is how I live my life. Here's how I live my life. But everybody's life is different. Their life [00:10:00] paths are different. Yep. So some people will resonate with things that, that we've done and the way we see it, and some people won't, cause not everybody's supposed to resonate. But if they, but they already have the, the answer and the wisdom inside of them.

The only thing they need to do is. A, realize that they have it inside of them. B, learn how to access it. , and that's it. That's really , all they need. And I think these 10 day type of retreats are so powerful for that. 

Stephen: Yeah. Then, uh, you learn to really understand yourself and your own intricacies.

It's, what you just said reminded me of a movie. I believe it's Kung Fu Panda 3, where the panda, he's become kind of like the teacher. And he's supposed to teach all these different people. And at first, when he's trying to teach all of them. [00:11:00] He's trying to get them to do these certain things and everything kind of is not working properly.

And he's like, ah, I'm a terrible teacher. 

Mike: Oh, I remember that scene. Yeah. 

Stephen: Right. Right. He's like, ah, I'm a disaster. I don't know. Cause everybody's 

Mike: all, it's all different. There's everybody has their own different skillsets. It's a whole village of like diversity of, of, of animals. 

Stephen: And then over the time he finally got the insight, oh, everybody has their own special abilities.

You know, this, this person's a cook. They can do this and this, this move. And this person, you know, as a dancer, that dancer can do this and that. Right. And then once they realize that to let people's innate abilities naturally come out, that's when they were able to really shine. 

Mike: Yeah. That people would trust in themselves, believe in themselves.

Believe in their skill sets and just express it with the intention. And of course, in that movie, it was like the intention of defending the village against the bad [00:12:00] guys. So this person has a skill set. Then when they don't trust themselves, they don't fully utilize this skill set for the intention of fighting and defending their village.

But once they have this belief that I can do it, this is my Kung Fu, you know? Yep. That's yeah, that's a good one.

Stephen: So, and it's just the. age old wisdom of you have everything inside. And it's one of those things that sometimes in life, we get very bombarded by all the things that are kind of external outside of us.

And when that happens, sometimes we forget what true power we actually have inside. 

Mike: You know, the challenge that people run into is After they go to these 10 day types of retreats, they don't [00:13:00] maintain it.

Stephen: It's not a, you go once and then bye bye, everything's, you're, you're free. That's why earlier I 

Mike: asked, like, how many days has it been since, because Every day after they start to lose their level of awareness for accessing that information inside and the old programming starts to come back every day after until two weeks, it's almost feels like they're just kind of back in their normal day.

They had a great experience, but that new inside is mostly gone. I've seen this happen to so many people. 

Stephen: That's why it's also very important whenever people go through these experiences to both integrate and then also continue the practice in some way. Like on our last conversation, I was just mentioning to her in general, try to maintain at doing the practice at nighttime [00:14:00] or in the morning or both, if you can, and that way you can at least sustain and prolong it as, as long as possible.

Mike: I see. So this is where it gets even more challenging because, A person meditates all day long and they develop their awareness so that they can access all this wisdom inside of them. So now they're trying to do this same approach in everyday life, but they don't have the time to meditate that long.

Their environment doesn't support them. They at most got, you know, hour, you know, 90 minutes a day at most. And people are busy. 

And so they can't access the same state, so they need to be able to access that same state with the time that they have available every single day with their lifestyle, if not, they're always dependent on going away for 10 days to, to kind of refresh their mind and body.[00:15:00] 

And most people. Taking 10 days off is 

Stephen: very challenging. 

Mike: Yeah. From work, from your family. Most people aren't going to be able to do that all the time. I mean, people do time, even once. One time and after that, like how many years can you give yourself that gift again? Yeah. You know, so they have to be able to do this on a daily basis.

If they don't, well, you just had to get a great experience, but you're going to lose out and that eventually is really quick. Two weeks. Most people that I've talked to are back to normal ways of doing things because they lost the awareness of the information. It's like the information was inside of them.

Yeah. They can't access it. So all they know is that I was able to see something, see it before. But it's, it's interesting. They don't even have a. Realization of what they were seeing it as before versus how they see [00:16:00] life now. They just see life now, the way it is, you know what I mean? It's like, let's say I go through the 10 days and afterwards I come out and I'm like, Ah, you know, I understand this is how I was and that life is great.

And I'm able to appreciate this and I, they have this understanding of life. Fast forward two weeks from now, that understanding of life, , this is the way it is, all that stuff, gone they have a very quick summary of that experience. , how was that experience? Well, that experience was great. I mean, I was just able to see things differently.

Stephen: It's just a mental memory of it. Yeah. Yeah. 

Mike: But they can't see it differently. They just remember. Seeing things differently and it was nice and that's like two weeks out. Fast forward another two weeks out, it gets more gray, more gray, eventually to where it just becomes, it was a great experience. I felt great afterwards.

But what's specific? Uh, I don't remember. I mean, I saw things differently. What's specific? They can't dial it [00:17:00] in because it's so far gone now. So they have to be able to maintain this awareness. on a daily basis, if they fully want to change their life around. If not, it'll always just be a glimpse. And that glimpse is going to be so long gone because people can't take 10 days off from their life.

Stephen: And that's why it's very important to integrate it into your daily life somehow, so that you can try your best to sustain that state as you go along. Because without a daily practice, essentially it was a good experience. 

Mike: If somebody wants to meditate for 10 hours a day, they can access that after 10 days.

Now, in normal day life, if a person practices meditation throughout the day, then they can sustain a lot of that. Maybe not exactly the same, but they can sustain a high level of still being able to access a lot of information. But the idea is not to sit [00:18:00] there with your eyes closed and just meditate all day long because you got responsibilities and things to do.

The idea is to be able to be in a meditative state as you live your life and do your responsibilities. 

Stephen: This is the next level. 

Mike: That you can say it's the next level, or that's the aim. Yeah. That's the intention. That's what a person needs to move towards. 

Stephen: How would you suggest someone get to that level?

Like how I'm thinking it happens is going back to one of the principles, it's repetition. Yeah. So it's a matter of doing it long enough where it sustains in you, and it's not just a fleeting experience. 

Mike: They need to do it long enough, but do what long enough? If somebody was to meditate for 10 days, and then now they come out and they meditate for an hour a day, they're not going [00:19:00] to be able to be in the same state.

Stephen: For sure. Not, not at the same level. That compared to this. At least 

maybe, I don't know, 50 percent of it. Just make up a number. 

Mike: So if they want to stay in a meditative state, they have to be able to, we have to define what meditative state is, because that's what people are really doing. When they're accessing this wisdom, what's really happening is that their conscious mind is still, and they're able to access their subconscious knowingness, their intuition, they're able to access that information.

And then when they access that information, they see life themselves and everything differently. Okay. So they have to access that, but to access that, what they did was they went ahead and did nothing and meditated for 10 days. And then their conscious mind went still, and then they accessed the deeper mind.

Now in everyday life, they are so busy with stuff that they can't get their conscious mind to [00:20:00] be still. Yep. There's a disconnect. There's a disconnect. So then. The next thing that they actually need to do is practice silencing conscious mind. But how do you do that when you have so much responsibilities to do?

Well, step one, think when you need to think and when you don't need to think, don't. It's very straightforward, right? 

It's very straightforward. But if you need to 

think, think, then if you don't need to think, stop. So then now someone's going to say easier said than done. Great. Yes, you're right. But imagine if a person aimed towards that, if they aim towards it, most people don't even aim towards it.

Well, if you don't try to accomplish it, you're not going to accomplish it at all. You're not even going to move forward towards it. But now the first step is move towards that. So someone goes, okay, then the next question becomes how, right? It's like you're smoking every day.

[00:21:00] Well, if you don't have an intention to stop, you're not going to stop. , once you have an intention to stop better, it's easier said than done. Right. But now let's talk about the steps to doing so. And so many people have quit smoking. 

So practice thinking only when you need to think. So then now when someone is having unnecessary thinking, they catch it and then they stop.

Stephen: You got to say in your wise voice with your long, long beard and say, Think when you need to think. Don't think when you don't need to think.

Mike: So when they don't need to think, they need to bring their attention to the present moment where there's no thinking. So then that's how they would practice it. Every time when they're in their mind, thinking about something they don't need to think about, take the attention to the present moment. Take it into their body, take it into their breath, take it to what's in front of them all present moment, bring their attention there.

When [00:22:00] they do, they start to slow down their mind. If they're committed to this goal, then over time of practicing this every day, constantly throughout the day, they start to accomplish this. And at some point they will, and they are only thinking when they need to think. And when they don't need to think, they're not thinking, they're present.

And then they're going to find that. Now, their mind is a lot more clear because they still need to think about things. But the mind is not constantly just chattering for the sake of chattering. The mind is only chattering when they need to figure things out, when they need to plan, when they need to think, and when they don't, they don't.

And they'll find, people will find how much unnecessary stuff is going on there. It's a lot. and At the same time, all of their performance, all of their goals in their life gets accomplished faster [00:23:00] because now they have more room in their mind to actually focus on the things that matter. And all of the random dialogue is cut out.

That's the first step. And instead of diving to there's other steps that need to happen afterwards. But just this first step alone would entirely change your life. And if a person just don't worry about the others, focus on that. 

Stephen: Yeah. 

Mike: When they accomplish that, the level of clarity that they have will be really immense already.

And then it'll be similar. It may not be at the deep level of meditating for 10 days for 10 hours a day, but they're going to have a much, much, much, much higher level of awareness. If a person does this, they're going to be able to access a lot of the wisdom that is similar to if a person went to 10 days of meditation and silent retreat.

Except a person can live their life [00:24:00] and it's something that can be sustained on an ongoing basis. That will be enough for people to not be confused, not be so overwhelmed with life. And because they're doing this on a daily basis. If they feel like they want to drop in even deeper, it doesn't take so long to get there.

They don't have to exit out live for 10 days. They can go and take one day off and still be on call if needed, but take one day off to really just sit with themselves and they can drop in so deep because 

Stephen: they're already at that level. 

Mike: They're already at a deeper level on a daily basis. Yeah. That's something.

That's everybody can do this. The reason why this doesn't happen for most people is because people don't believe they can. They don't believe they can. So therefore they don't go for it. And when they don't go for it, nothing happens. But when somebody believes they can, then they move towards it. And [00:25:00] they actually do, they have to believe they can.

How does a person believe they can when they can't right now? Well, when you have enough of a reason to accomplish this, because there are issues in life that you are just sick and tired of, and you're at the end of your rope. I, I need to accomplish this. I need that because I'm sick and tired of how things are.

And I refuse to live life in this way. So it becomes like a, , not just obligation, they feel almost forced to, because the other option, leaving things the way it is now is unacceptable. I think when a person gets there, then they will move towards this. And then they will accomplish this.

Stephen: That's the blessing in disguise. 

Mike: That's the, that's the trauma and the troubles, 

but a blessing. Okay. So that's it for today. Hope you guys got some wisdom and got some [00:26:00] insights on today's show. And I'll see you guys in the next episode.