070: Strategies to Overcome Brain Fog

The podcast episode discusses the issue of mental fog, a common challenge where individuals experience a lack of clarity, focus, and motivation in their lives. The hosts, Mike and Stephen, explore why this mental state occurs and how it affects people across different backgrounds and life situations. They highlight that mental fog is not exclusive to any specific group, as both financially successful individuals and those struggling with life’s challenges can experience it.

The conversation delves into the emotional and psychological factors behind mental fog, including fear of failure, fear of success, and the difficulty of confronting and processing negative emotions like anger, shame, and vulnerability. The hosts emphasize that in order to overcome mental fog, individuals must take action to face and feel these difficult emotions instead of avoiding them. They stress that the process is challenging and requires vulnerability, but ultimately, it leads to personal growth and the development of new sources of strength and clarity.

Throughout the episode, the hosts offer insights on how people can break free from the cycle of fear and inaction, encouraging listeners to embrace discomfort, keep trying despite setbacks, and trust that they are capable of handling the emotional work required to regain mental clarity and emotional balance.

Connect with Mike Chang:
- Instagram: @mikechangofficial
-Youtube: Mike Chang
- Website: www.flow60.com

Connect with Stephen Yeh:
-Instagram: @iamstephenyeh
-Twitter: @iamstephenyeh

Transcript

Mike: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of MindBodyMastering. This is Mike Chang, your host, and Stephen Yeh. And today we're going to be talking about mental fog. We're going to talk about what's happening when our mind is, is not able to see clearly, think clearly. Why is it happening? But we're also going to talk about how to overcome it.

And a lot of the obstacles that Many people are facing that is actually preventing them from getting past something that, that I feel many people are actually dealing with. , so Stephen and I were chatting today and we both actually had some conversations. With folks that were running into this problem of mental fog, lacking clarity in their life, lacking motivation.

And so we decided that, , this is going to be a subject we're going to cover today. [00:01:00] So let's, dive in. So Stephen, you were sharing with me about the guy that you were talking to on the phone. So, so what happened? 

Stephen: I saw a theme because I talked to three different people. This was basically about what their life is like, how they want to transform and make some shifts and changes.

And what was very interesting in, and it's nothing like surprising to me, but it just hit the point for me to hear these conversations where you can have. People at very different demographics and very different financial situations. One person I talked to, he was the owner of a large company. He was doing very well for himself.

He just got himself a deal that had a substantial amount of money in there. And at the same time, he was saying how. He's getting older and, he's feeling just this chronic stress all over his body and he can't think so clearly and he's looking for ways to help [00:02:00] shift and change and start to feel that youngness again, where he just, , when you're young, you naturally have it, but as you start to grow older, if you're not doing the right training and the practices and life and you're thinking a lot, whatever it is, Then it comes to a point where I could just see it on his face.

It looked like he was just dreading life. 

Mike: And, and was he 

saying that he had it when he was younger or are you saying that everybody has it when they're young? 

Stephen: No, he was, I would say I'm saying that what he said was he's reaching his fifties now, his energy levels are dipping and he can feel that it's, he's not really showing up so much in life.

Yeah. Anymore, right? He's having a tough time just showing up and it was the same with another person when he was in a very different financial situation where he was dependent on his wife to take care of the [00:03:00] financial household and they have two kids. They just had a baby. And at this moment, he's so physically and mentally drained.

He just can't get himself to do the work, to go and work and provide for his family. 

Mike: Well, they just had a baby.

Stephen: They just had a baby. 

Mike: Yeah, yeah, that's not a good place , for the father to be at. If your wife just had to deliver the baby, you better get off your butt and do something. 

Stephen: Yeah.

Yeah. Mm. And, and he was struggling. These, he's even struggling to apply for jobs because it's just mentally taxing for him to even just go out there and do that. So it's, I was just listening to another person, another podcast, and it was, he was talking about how the world right now is just shifting so quickly.

Right. And as these. Events and technology and everything and culture [00:04:00] is shifting so quickly. We need to learn how to adapt because if not, it's going to be very, very tough on us, especially mental. 

Mike: So what I'm hearing is like these, first of all, you have, this contrast, right? You have the, the guy that's doing very well in life on the outside, but he's just dealing with a lot of stress, mentally drained.

And then you got this guy that's sounds like he's kind of struggling financially and he's also mentally drained. So I guess the first obvious thing is that mental fog is doesn't matter if you have money or not. It doesn't matter. If you're smart, if you have the ability to be successful, right? I think somebody may think like, Hey, I've had this fog and this why I can't do anything, but even when somebody is doing very well, they can still deal with mental fog.

They can still deal with a lack of mental performance. Well, I mean, I guess there's something to a couple of things to dive into here. I guess the first question there [00:05:00] is why is this happening to people? And, then the next question would be, what does a person need to do to get out of it?

Right? Because it seems like This is a universal thing, like I was talking to a guy today and for him, it wasn't so much that he had mental fog. , it was like he was kind of one level above the mental fog. What he was running into was just mental anger, mental rage. And the funny thing about it is sometimes I talk to people and they don't really realize how bad it is.

And then I kind of helped him and gained some clarity. Well, this guy, he was very clear about what was happening. He was telling me about how he yells at his wife pretty much like almost every other day, every day, and how he's just kind of an asshole is really just how you put it.

And. Hmm. And there was like this attitude, like, I'm okay with it, it's like, yes, I know. It's [00:06:00] almost like this sense of being proud that he was that. And I remember sitting there listening, going, yeah, so you're basically telling me that you have all these issues and. And you seem to don't really care.

So my first question I was thinking is, why the heck are we still talking here? Because usually I'm doing these calls to kind of help. Yeah. And you're just kind of really proud that you have all these problems. And then just like I expected, once we got down to it, it's like, okay, well, here's what the program is.

Let's go and get you started. And I explained to him how it works. And he's like, yes, yes. Yeah. I've heard about that. Okay. So, you know, all this. Yeah. And nothing's changed. All right, so let's make some change. And then he goes, Oh, well, I need a check with the wife. I need to go. I can't spend any money because she's going to get mad.

And I look at him and go, dude, she's mad at you already because you treat her like shit. What does it matter that now you're going to spend money? Oh, something like that. I go, look, man, you don't, that's not even the real reason. Okay. You're just scared. You know, and I just told him, I [00:07:00] was like, look, man, looked at, I was like, you are scared.

You are so afraid. That you're going to come up with excuses of money and all this stuff. And like, no, I was like, look, we don't have a lot of time. Let's get right to some honest truth here. And he, and he confessed, he's like, okay, Mike, I, the thing is, I, I'm afraid. Yeah, I'm afraid that I can't do it.

And I go, okay, thank you for being honest. Now we're getting somewhere. And I think that's, because, you know, sometimes when people know that this is happening. And I guess the question is like, why are they not doing something and I feel a lot of it has to do with the fact that people are afraid that they can't do it like they can't succeed.

Like if you tell somebody, Hey, man, you're dealing with this issue. Here's what you do. It's like they hear you. They understand that, that's how it works. And they won't even, a lot of people won't even try. It's like they're so afraid of failing. And it's the Catch 22. It's like all this fear and stuff is inside of them, and [00:08:00] therefore they're seeing everything in fear.

And then you tell them to do something, and then they look at what you tell them. With the same perspective, right? It's kind of, they're stuck in this loop. It's, it's a tough place to be at. 

Stephen: And that is the challenge, right? Because what tends to happen is in their minds, it's like, it's the fear of failure.

And what if they fail? What if in their minds are like, what if I can't do it, then that means I'm even more terrible. than before i tried Right. Now 

Mike: they got another reason to beat themselves up even more. 

Stephen: Yep. Yep. And so that it, that can become even more scary, right? But at the same time, if you don't make any change, it's either just going to stay the same or it's just going to get worse.

Mike: Yeah. Right. So I think in a situation like this, it's somebody can't use, they can't try to use their logic to, to [00:09:00] kind of think that with their way out, because what happens is one part of them is going to talk about how they need to make a change and why it's good. And then the other part, the fear based part is going to go and talk about all of the reasons like the fear of failure and people are going to think this of you and it's better just to play it safe.

And at least, you know, how life is right now. You don't know how it's going to be if you try to do that. What happens if things get worse? What happens if things get even more crazy or can I even handle that? No, I can't handle that. No, no, no. So you got this debate going on. So the logic mind, you can't.

And that's the thing, people try to use their logic mind to go, let me think about it. No, you can't think about it because you're going to think your way right out of it. You're dealing with so much right now. It doesn't, work that way. You can't trust your mind when you're dealing with so much fear and so much stress and worry.

Stephen: What's funny is there's also the other side of that as well, where it's also the fear of success. And I believe we briefly talked about this before as well. And. What happens if they [00:10:00] start making changes? How is their spouse going to think about them or how is their friends going to think about them?

, are they going to judge him for, for starting to change? Right? What's going to happen there? Who is he going to become? Ooh, now , there's uncertainty there. At least he's certain right now that he's angry. 

Mike: Hmm. Right. It sounds crazy when you think about it, but yet, unfortunately, it is that that is true.

They feel, Oh, well, check this out. Right? So yes, there's certainty with the angry. Here's another thing. I don't want to sidetrack too much because I want to talk about what needs to happen, but I really got to say this one. Hmm. So. I told him, I was like, well, what are you afraid of? Like, what are you really afraid of?

I know you're afraid of failure, but what are you really afraid of? It's not just a failure. What is behind that? And he told me something that I, can relate to a hundred percent. Yeah. He said, [00:11:00] I'm afraid of losing my power. That's why I don't want to let go of this anger. I'm afraid of losing my power.

And I remember looking at him and going, okay, all right. Yes, you're absolutely right. Right. Right. Because what's going to happen right now is you will lose that power that you have, because this guy's angry and anger is a power because the thing is, like, he feels that if he lets go of the anger, then what he's going to experience is fear.

And so he can't experience fear because it makes him feel weak, but if he keeps experiencing the fear, he feels into it, he's going to experience sadness. And he's going to experience shame and shame is such a low energy. And the fact is that people are so afraid of feeling it, especially angry people.

And I know this because I used to be a very angry person. [00:12:00] And the anger actually makes you feel very strong because you have rage, you have anger, you can get shit done. Now you feel guilt, you feel shame. You feel sadness? Oh, you're not getting anything done. You're just gonna mope around and just be in that little puddle of shame and guilt.

But here is the thing though, is that if a person wants to let go of it, they gotta deal with it, they gotta go through it. And I think that, when somebody really digs in deep, like this guy, he's done some work, he knows how it feels like, he's seen therapists and all that stuff.

And he knew that he feels good with anger, even though the consequences. Is what it is. He knows that he used this energy to build up his life. And the fact is that's what I did before too. That's exactly what I did, and it does work, but it screws everything up, even though it works. Like you'll build it, you'll be successful in whatever you do, [00:13:00] but the outcome of it is not a really good outcome.

You'll have money, you can have this and that, but your relationships are just crumpled away. 

Stephen: I mean if you really take a look at all the hero, super villain movies, this is all it's about. Both the hero. And the villain, they've had some type of tough situation happened in their life. The difference between the two is the villain started to source the energy from anger, from, rage, from all of these.

And then he becomes the villain while the superhero pulls it in, has these experiences. And what ends up happening is. He has shifted the meaning of that event to, okay, what can I do to help serve, or what can I do to help make the world better? Right? And so that draws upon a different type of energy.

And so, again, kind of like what you said, that the [00:14:00] power of anger and rage can be quite large. Right. And that's why the person you talked to was so fearful of losing that because it is a source of that. And what's difficult is he can't see beyond that just yet because he has not, or at least for a certain period of time, he has not been able to access another type of power.

Mike: He's never been, he's been upset since as long as he can remember. I remember clearly being in high school. Being this bully, being this rage. And the guy was, he was in his mid late forties, you know? 

Stephen: Yeah. And so for him, it's like, Hey, if I don't have this. , he knows that there's shame inside, he know there's sadness 

Mike: Mhm 

Stephen: if he's not going to be that angry self automatically, if that anger drops and he doesn't do anything to really shift it over time, he's going to [00:15:00] just become that shameful, guilty self and that's like you said, an even lower self.

Mike: Yeah. Cause, he doesn't know the path, right? It's like , He doesn't realize that he has to be okay with feeling the weakness, feeling the vulnerability, feeling the sadness, the guilt, the shame, all the stuff. And when he feels it, it starts to rise. He starts to release it, but he has to go through it.

There's like that, that saying, you got to go through the valley of the shadow of the death and it's like, that's what it is. It's like, we got the stuff inside. And we got to, feel it before we can release it, but everybody's so afraid of feeling it because it makes you feel weak.

It makes you feel so vulnerable that it's scary. It's scary to be that vulnerable. People are scared to get hurt. They're mentally, emotionally feeling like they're going to get hurt. Some people physically, they go, wow, if I'm like that, I can't defend myself. People are literally going to hurt me. And I don't have the energy.

I don't have the power to defend, and so it's like, yeah, you know, [00:16:00] it's not worth it. That's too big of a risk. Like I've, defended myself all of these years. I fought. This is the way I fought, and now you're going to tell me to put up my gear and put up my weapons. No, this has been my weapon the whole time.

You know, the thing with this is that's why, like I was saying earlier, we can't logically make sense of it because there's going to be just two minds and they're debating and fighting about it. The way to move forward here is a person has to go and, Take action, they have to take action and they have to go and move, one step towards releasing, towards feeling, and then when they do, that feeling of vulnerability starts to rise, they start to connect a little bit to the sadness and to the shame, and it's going to feel a little scary, but.

When they do it, it's like they realize that they can actually handle it because, in their mind, they're thinking, Oh, I can't handle it. It's gonna be so bad. And then when they do it, they're like, okay, I can handle it. I'm still here. I haven't [00:17:00] disappeared. , it's like people come up with weird stuff.

It's like, okay, I'm still here. I can deal with it. It's like they took that step and they're like, okay, well, if I can handle that first step, let me take another step. , and before you know it, it's like somebody is actually sitting there and actually releasing some of it and all they had to do is just feel a little bit of it, move forward, take that step.

And then when they feel a little bit of it and they release it. They feel a little better and they go, Whoa, I took that step and I feel a little better. It's not like it just went away, but I chipped away a little bit of that anger and I'm feeling a little more calm. It's like that one step that now gives them courage, right?

To take the second, 

Stephen: continue going forward. Yeah. And what's, and what's interesting is that when they're starting to allow themselves to feel it, they're starting to allow themselves to feel it it. And they notice some of that darker emotion starting to shed. That's where their new power is starting to grow as well, [00:18:00] right?

Because now what they're seeing is I can handle it. What does I can handle it mean? It means that , they're capable. 

And when they're capable, that's how they, can feel that, okay, now I don't have to use this source as power anymore. There's a new source where I can handle whatever that starts to come up in my life.

Mike: I think even though that is true, that there's a process and it's not going to be very, it's not going to be immediate. It's like, you know, they feel in, 

Stephen: it's not pretty, 

Mike: I mean, and you and I, we're not, you and I've been to this, , it's like, you know, when you're feeling it and 

you don't just feel it and suddenly it's like you're releasing, you feel strong, you're actually going to feel weak and vulnerable. And at that point, it's like the fork in the road. Are you going to go and fight the vulnerability? Are you going to fight this feeling weakness? And when [00:19:00] you fight weakness, then you got to get angry, you got to defend.

Or are you going to open up your arms and go, take me, all right, I'm just going to fall into this. And that's what I think what you mean when it's like, you get stronger, because literally when we're stronger, we can handle the pain, we can handle discomfort, we can handle being vulnerable. People think they're strong because they're wearing a whole bunch of armor.

No, man, you're strong because you can take it without the armor. You're strong because you have your hands up, not because you have your hands fisted in front of you. That's not strong. You're scared. That's why you got to fight. But when you're so strong, you take it. Like if you're strong, a baby hits you all day long, nothing happens.

Or if you're strong, a grown man hits you all day long and nothing happens because you're that strong. If you're not strong, you got to put your hands up. You got to put on pads. And right now that's what people are. Everybody's padded up. And that pad, right, that pad is the fear, that pad is all of that they can't take it off.

So when they get stronger, they're actually taking it off so they can actually take the real life. They can take the feelings that they're actually having all that [00:20:00] emotions, you know, 

Stephen: So based on how we're talking about right now, and we're not sugarcoating at all saying that it's an easy process. No, it's not right.

How do we actually inspire people to go through a journey like this? Because. If I've never gone through it or, , I'm feeling some stuff and I'm just imagining hearing this conversation. I'm like, damn, that's a lot of hard work. I don't know if I would go through that. 

Mike: You know, , I don't want to even sugarcoat it and try to, go and inspire because the fact is, you can inspire them and convince them and they're like, oh yeah, we're the cheerleaders.

And then they go and do it. They're like, holy crap. This is not what I thought. I'd rather. That's true. Yeah, I'd rather have it just, this is exactly what's going to happen. And the thing is you can handle it. That's about the most inspiration I can really give people that you can handle it here.

Here's the thing. Like someone goes, well, I tried and it was too tough. It was too scary. Okay. I understand. Right. So you tried and then you couldn't do [00:21:00] it right. That one time. Okay, cool. So try again. Right. Just, just keep trying. Doesn't matter if you fail 10 times, keep trying. You know, you should see how many times I've tried, you know, years and years.

So just keep on going because the thing is every time when we try, we get a little bit better every time we try, even if we failed, even though we stopped, but we gained some experience. And so that's the thing is like, I tell people, , you can handle that fear, you can handle it. People think they can't handle it, but this is inside of you, whatever is inside of you, you got this, you can handle it.

It's been inside of you. If you can handle it on what's been inside of you, you can handle it to release it. It's the same thing. It's been inside of you. And now you're just taking that emotion, that fear that's inside, and now you're bringing it out to the surface. You can handle it, you can handle it while it's inside, you can handle it when it's out, 

Stephen: what I found where people [00:22:00] actually, and when people actually get started is generally if they're just getting started, it takes them hitting rock bottom to really start making that shift, honestly, because when I was, helping out at a meditation center, The people that I saw get the most benefit, the people who stuck through it, were people who are going through the toughest times, and they also made the most transformative, freaking, like, not just experiences, but shifts that happened, you know, I, I had people come in.

And they just went through a divorce. You can see that they're just in an absolutely terrible space. And after the time that they were there, you can see that they're like walking with a step. They got like lightness in them. They start talking about the divorce in a different way. Right. And so, unfortunately, I do believe that most people will start when they hit that rock bottom.

Now, with [00:23:00] that said, there is also another option. Get started with where you are at because I got to the point where I was going through the cycles of hitting rock bottom, working on myself, hitting rock bottom again, working myself. Eventually I got the cycle down where I'm like, you know what? I don't want to hit rock bottom anymore.

I'm just going to like continuously, little by little, just continue to work on myself, wherever it needs to be so that I can sustain myself in a good state without needing to drop down super low. 

Mike: Yeah. And, and look at how many rock bottoms you had to hit to learn that lesson. 

Stephen: Yeah. So, 

Mike: you know, it's funny thing.

I 

Stephen: mean, 

Mike: the funny thing is the way that I hit rock bottom was a little bit different. The way I hit rock bottom was by shooting all the way to the top and by shooting all the way to the top. Once I was at the top, I realized that I was at rock bottom before and I never want to go back [00:24:00] to that rock bottom because sometimes people don't even know.

It's like, , the stronger you are, the more stubborn you are, right? Then more thick skin, you can handle it. Right. The better you're avoiding stuff, the more you are unaware of how low you are. It's like 

Stephen: just keep digging further and further and further and further down until it, you know, 

Mike: yeah, it's, it's like, Hey, everybody's telling you you have a problem.

I, they don't know what they're talking about. Yeah. Your, your girlfriend just left you in there and she's cheating on you now. Cause she says she doesn't love you because you treat her like shit. Yeah. But she don't know what she's talking about. Oh, okay. Yeah. You're having problems at work and they said that you're too aggressive.

Yeah. Yeah. But you know, those are just assholes. I don't care. It's like some people are in such denial that they don't even realize they're at rock bottom. And I can say, I was, I was, I was pretty close. I wouldn't say that would be my exact description, but , that would be a version, of it.

And then when I spiked all the way to the top and I was [00:25:00] feeling amazing, then I realized, Oh, my God, I was at a rock bottom in comparison. Right now, luckily, I was very fortunate that I didn't have to drop any lower, but I mean, but I don't know how low I could have. Well, yeah, no, I could have dropped lower.

There's always a lower to drop, but at that point, it's like. , my body's broken down already, right? I can barely, I can't walk around. I can't lay down. I can't lift anything. I can't lift more than 20 pounds in front of me because my back is blown out. My head is full of, chatter. I couldn't stop my mind.

I couldn't pay attention. , I was getting angry for everything. You know, I'm smoking like a chimney, bud all day long. And yeah, and I am losing, my ability to go and understand people. Like I couldn't pay attention. That's how loud my mind was. So yeah, I could have been more rock bottom.

Oh, and I wasn't getting much things done at work. So yeah, there could probably have been lower, but I was in this case, fortunate enough to [00:26:00] actually shoot up to the top and realize that I was so low and I never wanted to go back. So I think, 

Stephen: yeah, 

Mike: I think people have to. Because rock bottom, what is rock bottom?

I think it's just, that's just an idea, right? I realized I was at rock bottom when I shot to the top. And I go, oh my god, I never want to go back there. Alright, so I think people kind of have their own idea. But, would you agree that, Even though rock bottom is just a description, it's a label.

Everybody's got their own idea, but do you agree that person really just needs to hit their idea of rock bottom before they really get serious on making some changes? 

Stephen: I would say they don't have to, but at least from what I've seen, majority of people need to hit rock bottom. It seems like that's just the pattern of things, right?

It's tough, you know, because in, in order to make the shift and to really start to move up in terms of, let's say, let's just call it levels of [00:27:00] consciousness, it really requires you to be a different person. It's almost like, when they talking about a quote unquote ego death. You need to almost assassinate the old self to really become a new version of you and that old self doesn't want to go and it will hold on for however long it can, until it can't hold on anymore.

And essentially that's how I would describe, everybody's individual rock bottom. Is that identity is not able to sustain itself any longer and a new version needs to come up. 

Mike: So how would that look like when you say the identity can't sustain itself and the practical aspect is, because, you know, like, how will somebody know, right.

, when they hear that, what would you say? 

Stephen: I mean, [00:28:00] I'll give you an example of my own life. It's been a few years. Reflecting back, one of the last ones was like, let's say I was doing pretty well financially for my situation. I didn't have to worry about where am I going to get my food?

Where am I staying? And all of that was covered. I had money coming in. I didn't have to work that much. And I was still feeling very miserable inside. And that misery just felt overwhelming until for me, myself, it got to a point where I remember making a decision. It came to a point where I was like, you know what, and this is very extreme, but it was basically, I'm either going to become enlightened or I'm going to kill myself and there's no in between.

And so I'm going to do everything. I'm going to focus all my attention on finding a way to become enlightened because I feel this [00:29:00] miserable. I don't care about money right now. I don't care about , any of that stuff. I just want to feel well, that was one of my rock bottoms.

So, I mean, , I'm laughing about it just because sometimes when I reflect back and I'm just going to talk about my own life right now, when I reflect back on those low times. It really just feels like, to me, a crazy adventurous journey that I went on. And I'm happy that I went on it. Yeah, in hindsight, I'm happy I went on it and it's like, whoa!?

What, what a crazy experience. But I'm happy to be here now. 

Mike: Yeah. In hindsight,

I bet it'd be, I bet it could be a different story. It's like, imagine we go back in time. Stephen, how are you feeling? 

Stephen: Ah,

Mike: I'm gonna [00:30:00] enlightened, I'm gonna get enlightened, or I'm gonna 

Stephen: die . 

Mike: Yeah. 

Stephen: So I mean, essentially, what would you say, circling back to people who are. having a tough time. They have the mental fog. They're feeling weak. Like what to do? 

Mike: You know, somebody has to stop fighting. There's a lot of ways to say this.

We'll say it. I'll say it in one way first. Somebody has to stop fighting on the inside. It's like, they're angry about this thing. They're scared of this thing. And when I say this thing, it's like a certain part of their life. They're scared of, they're scared of getting judged by others. They're scared that they're not going to be enough.

They're afraid of this and that. And they have to stop fighting because when they're fighting, what's happening is that they aren't okay with the fact that people are going to judge them. They're not okay with the fact that people are going to see what's really going on inside of them. They're not okay [00:31:00] with it.

So what they do is they fight. And when we say fight, that means they are resisting, they're hiding, they're dodging, they're lying, they're pretending, they're, not being authentic. They can't show everything. They're fighting this, the reality of what's actually happening.

It's like, if I feel like I'm a fake, then I'm going to go ahead and fight and feel and try to act. Like, I know what I'm talking about. I'm gonna act like I'm so authentic. , and then that's fighting this feeling of, wow, I'm so afraid I'm gonna get discovered. I talk to so many people, they tell me that there's this imposter syndrome, and so when they stop fighting, then what actually happens is they go, you know what?

I don't care if people don't think I know this or that, or I don't care if people see me in this way. I'm gonna stop fighting it. I'm just going to just. Show what it is that I, and that I [00:32:00] am, I'm going to just be myself. I'm going to stop pretending this or that. And then what happens when they do that is the part of them that was afraid, , that ego part that you're talking about, that part.

Dies away and , dying away is not really, it's not the most accurate way. , it creates some confusion. I would say the ego part of us, let's go of control and it's okay with being in that uncertainty and being okay with not being able to control everything. And then now what happens is now this person actually is not fighting reality and now they can accept what's happening.

They can accept who they are. And that's when they start to become stronger. Cause you know, when they're fighting man it's really energetically draining. It's like, there's this war going on inside of them, , and it's just, they're just making it up. It's all in their head. 

Stephen: Here's the thing that comes up for me because , there's just so much nuance to all of this, right?

Cause I totally [00:33:00] agree with you, but I can also see that when someone hears this, let's say someone is. Just like super nice, right? They're trying to be super nice to everybody because they're scared or whatever it is. And then what ends up happening is inside they're angry. They're like, whatever that is.

Especially when people are talking about like authenticity nowadays, just be yourself. Now, what's going to happen is they're going to be, Hey, I wasn't being authentic. When I was being nice to people, I'm being authentic now, when I'm angry at them.

Mike: Now they're confused. This is what 

Stephen: happens though.

Right now they

latch on to the angry identity because now they, they shedded that one, they shedded that identity. Now they, now they're this one. Where they're like, no, I'm not going to be nice to people [00:34:00] anymore because they don't deserve it. This is who I am. And I'm just expressing my authentic self, 

right? 

You can see this totally happening.

Mike: Sounds like the hero villain story where there's like two heroes and then one of them goes, I'm getting picked on all the time and then we become a villain suddenly. Yeah, yeah. I see what you mean. And 

Stephen: so it's like layers upon layers. Shedding and shedding and 

Mike: shedding, 

Stephen: right? 

Mike: Yeah, they're, they're just, they're just bouncing to extremes.

And one is like, , they're trying to be nice, , But again, they're resisting because when we talk about resisting, talking about, I mean, pretending still fighting it, people think fighting it, like fighting themselves means that they're going to be mean to be an asshole or something.

And that's not it. They can be fighting themselves and just be super nice because you want to express something else, but they're afraid. So then they fight that part of themselves that [00:35:00] wants to do it. So then they end up being super nice, but that's still fighting on the inside. And then the fighting on the inside eventually just gets so, so fed up.

There's so much emotions that they can't hold it back. Cause it's like, at some point you're trying to, to go ahead and , keep that part from showing. And that's some part you just, sometimes you just can't do it anymore. And that's something that blows up and it blows them through the other direction, like you said.

Uh, you know, I had, I experienced bouncing from the extremes before finally learning how to come to this middle place. And, it took a little while because I didn't understand this concept, about surrendering because I remember hearing about it. And, it just, the concept itself just sounded so, so weak.

Oh, man, I'm going to surrender. Oh my God, I don't want to surrender. I'm a fighter. I'm a winner, you know, like, what do you mean? I'm going to surrender. I don't ever surrender. I'm going to die when I surrender. It's like, you know, this mentality. I didn't understand it because the word [00:36:00] itself is, it has this losing, you know.

Stephen: Well, it's ingrained in culture. I surrender. Meaning you, you lost, you've lost the war. You you've lost your life. 

Mike: Yeah. Give up. Yeah. That's why I a lot of times I'd like to say, let go. It's a, you know, let go of it. It's a little bit better, I think. 

Stephen: Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's, there's less.

That's preconceived notions and emotions around letting go. Essentially you're saying the same thing, right? But the, the wording affects people differently. 

Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess another one would be to accept what's happening. That's another one. It's kind of like surrender. Accept what's happening. No, I can't accept this, this situation.

I got to do something about it. , I can't. Yeah. And so it's the same thing, acceptance, right? Yeah. And. But these words sometimes get confusing. I know I was confused for a long time, , [00:37:00] with all this stuff. It's like they're words, but it's like they, the definitions of it is just, it doesn't sound very empowering.

I'm going to accept my life. I want to change my life. I'm going to surrender myself. Hell no, I'm not going to surrender myself. And, and then it took so many years to start to really understand that what they're really pointing to is not the definition that we think. And the thing is, and I think about it, how many people need to surrender, they need to let go, but because they don't really understand.

Why? How it works? All they look at it is these labels of I'm going to not change my life by accepting and I'm just going to become this weak, person by surrendering. I'm not going to do either. And I don't understand why the heck everybody's talking about, you know, forget this.

I'm just going to fight harder. , every time someone tells me to surrender, I'm just going to fight harder, you know, and then now they're just stuck in that loop. [00:38:00] 

Stephen: It's one of those things, right? It basically, it really comes down to having experiences, right? Because you can read all you want about surrendering or letting go or accepting, but until you had at least a glimpse of that experience, it's hard to fathom and hard to understand what it actually means.

, it took me a long time, right? Cause when, when I was telling you at that, that time where I was like, all right, you know what? I'm either going to kill myself or I'm going to become enlightened. And I went on a journey. I went to go find the head monk that will help guide me. And I was doing the walking meditation.

I'm like, I I'm the big, 

Mike: you're, you're fighting, you're fighting, you're fighting your way to enlightenment there. 

Stephen: I'm going to find my, I'm going to make it, I'm going to do whatever it takes. 

Mike: Fighting your way to enlightenment. I know what you mean.[00:39:00] 

You know, I think it goes back. Well, I think it goes back to what you said about, about hitting rock bottom a few times. I know the more we talk about and think about it, man, , I think people can be interested in looking into these things, but they don't take it really seriously. 

They don't sacrifice things. They don't sacrifice their current self until they actually hit a level of rock bottom that they would consider rock bottom. Cause up until then they're still fighting because when they hit rock bottom, whatever that form could be. Mm hmm. It's. It's like, there's no point in fighting.

It's like, they realized that fighting is just digging deeper. And it's like, and they have to recognize it. And sometimes the stubborn ones just keep fighting until another form of rock bottom happens. That is so low. They, they, they get that wake up call, you know? And then from [00:40:00] there, suddenly they will go, okay, well, if I can't go, back anymore.

I'm at, I have the wall. You know, I can't go down anymore. I hit this solid place. I can't dig any deeper. So now I can only go up and therefore I can't, there's no fighting anymore. So at that point, it's like, okay, well, let me actually can go ahead. I'm ready to give up how I've been doing things.

Because it's so obvious at that point that what they're doing is not any good for them. But they got to hit that rock bottom to be able to recognize that they have to change. It's like, it's, it's just like a, it's an inner force within themselves. 

Stephen: And hopefully, ideally people like, sometimes when I hear about someone going through a tough time, it's tough because it's not like I cheer that on, but.

I'm also like, there might be an opportunity for big shift there, right? 

Mike: Well, imagine like, well, if rock bottom is like our own definition, it's like, imagine [00:41:00] helping somebody recognize that they are at rock bottom. And if they can believe that they're at rock bottom, then they don't have to go any further.

That's true. 

Stephen: Because rock, bottom for people it's just your own meaning of it. It's made up. Everybody has different, , if we're talking about people who are stubborn, it's like my, my mom, she was very stubborn in her ways. She didn't want to change. And it wasn't until she was on her deathbed that she really started to make shifts.

It was when, when her health was really going to troubles where that shift started to happen,, and so sometimes, , for the very, very stubborn ones, it takes until that time, but, , ideally it can happen much, much earlier so that you can enjoy, , different ways of living while you're still living.

Mike: Yeah, you know, I don't, sometimes I think that [00:42:00] people will make the changes when they're supposed to make the changes. , and then reality, there's really, things are just happening, like things are happening. Everything is fine. The way it is. Somebody doesn't make a change. They're suffering every day.

In reality, it's like the suffering is a good thing, because if they're not suffering, they don't recognize where they're at. It's like everything is going bad, but then they're feeling great. Well, then what's going to change, right? It's like somebody has these bad habits or treating everybody bad and everybody's supporting it, right?

So in reality, like there's nothing really wrong with people that are suffering right now because they have to suffer in order to go and start to rise up. And they have to suffer, they have to feel what that, what it's like. To not fight anymore. And once they fight, they start to surrender their old ways and self, and now they're climbing back up.

And I think sometimes when we try to prevent somebody , from falling, prevent somebody from [00:43:00] suffering, we actually take away that rock bottom experience. It's true. And therefore we actually prolong it. We actually prolong , their fighting. You know, it's not in our intention, but this happens.

It happens actually very often. I see it all the time with students, , 

Stephen: there he goes, fellas. It is a journey. It's a journey. And if you're willing to go on it, you know, it's not an easy one when you're able to go on it. I don't know about you, Mike, but , going through that journey has been very fascinating for me.

I mean I still have my moments. I still go through it. I'm still evolving, but I definitely, my rock bottoms, my definition of my own rock bottoms are very, very different now. I don't need to go to where I feel like I want to kill myself. It's more like I'm having a terrible day. Okay, let's make a change now.

Yeah. 

Mike: So [00:44:00] I think a final takeaway that I'd like to share, for those that are feeling the mental fog, they're feeling the pressure, they're feeling the stress, you're not in a good place, I think to help realize that. You're at a rock bottom and that you don't need to dig any deeper, that you're already there.

I think it's just to take a look at the aspects of your life. Take a look at what's going on with your health and see that, , all the things, are you having problems breathing? Right. There's a doctor already telling you, you got issues, right? Do you feel that heaviness? Do you feel like crap in your body?

Do you feel strong and light or you feel heavy and sick and weak? If you are, that could be that form of rock bottom for you already. And then you look at your relationship, is it loving, or are you fighting with your spouse or partner, right? Does your kids and you argue all the time? Like. Really look at it clearly and just look at it with no bias, just see it for what it [00:45:00] is.

And I think when people start to recognize this and they see that in their job, in their business, wherever they're at, that they are not inspired, that they just want to quit. They just want to leave. They feel like they're in groundhog day. They're stuck in the matrix in this loop. And when they really clearly identify that, that can be the rock bottom that they just need.

And I think when they can really look at it and, and be honest with themselves and they can see how. Bad. It actually is. That just might be the key to going, okay, , that's enough. I can't, , this is bad. Like what the heck? How did my life turn this way? I think at that point, they can surrender and let go.

Now they can start moving forward. Now they can start doing the practices. They can start feeling into it. They could do everything needed. I think that's my last takeaway. 

Stephen: Mean, to add to that point, just like what Mike said, really reflect on those areas. If you've been listening all the way to this point, there might be something that's going on within yourself.

That you would like to shift and [00:46:00] change. So really reflect upon that and see what's happening. And if you want to magnify it as well, you can imagine continuing the same routes that you're going for another five years, another 10 years, and imagine where that's going to bring you to. And when you're ready for a shift, it's possible.

And your life can be completely different. Then what it is today. And that's all for me folks. 

Mike: All right, guys. So hope you guys found that helpful. So that's it for today's podcast. It's Mike Chang and Stephen Yeh and see you guys next time. See ya.