#152 - She Was Told Her Dream Was Impossible… Now Chloe McNiven Is A Guinness World Record Ultra Runner 💙

Welcome back to The RunThrough Podcast. Today we’re joined by the incredible Chloe McNiven, a former professional dancer turned Guinness World Record holder and ultra marathon runner, as well as a mum of two.

Chloe faced huge adversity growing up and was often told her dream of becoming a professional dancer wasn’t realistic. She left school at 15, worked as a cleaner on a building site, saved everything she could, and eventually moved to London where she put herself through dance school while juggling three jobs. That determination paid off and she went on to spend more than a decade performing alongside global stars including Elton John, Little Mix, Liam Payne, Robbie Williams and Zara Larsson.

She later discovered running and it changed everything, ultimately leading her to set a Guinness World Record with RunThrough at Goodwood Motor Circuit, where she pushed a pram around 50K. She has since taken on huge endurance challenges, including running 50K in Wales while five months pregnant.

In this episode, Ben Sheppard sits down with Chloe to talk about resilience, mental strength, motherhood and pushing far beyond what you think is possible.

Ben Sheppard - https://www.instagram.com/bensheppard93/

Chloe McNiven - https://www.instagram.com/chloejmcniven/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Run Through Podcast. It is Ben Shepard here, and today I am thrilled to be joined by Chloe McNiven. She's a former professional dancer who went on to become a Guinness World Record holder, an ultramarathon runner. Oh, and also she's a she's a mama too. Chloe's story is one of the most inspiring I've heard in a very long time. Growing up, she faced huge adversity and was often told her dream of becoming a dancer was unrealistic. She left school at 15, worked as a cleaner on a building site, saved every penny, and eventually moved to London. There she put herself through dance school while juggling three jobs, and that determination paid off because she went on to spend more than a decade performing alongside global stars like Elton John, Little Mix, Liam Payne, Robbie Williams, and Zara Larson. But Chloe didn't stop there. She discovered running and it completely changed her life, ultimately leading her to setting a Guinness World Record at Goodwood Motor Circuit, where she pushed her Pram around a 50k. And that's just one of the many stories of resilience, mental strength, and motherhood that you're going to hear about in today's episode. Chloe McNiffin is on the run-through podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Dancing really did save my life, and I don't say that lightly. Had a lot of like challenges growing up. I really didn't see a way out of the current situation that I lived in. I want to inspire other people, I want to help other people, I want to be an influence. You can come from a cancer estate, you can have all these traumatic tags from a childhood, you can you can actually do it. Just having no distraction from chores or your phone or work or emails and just being in the moment, you talk to your baby. That bond that you create with your child whilst running is some sort of magical formula. My name is Chloe McNivan. I am a mum, a mum of two. I am an entrepreneur. I was an athlete. My original career was a professional dancer, so I've always, you know, used my body as part of my whole life and whole being, and which then luckily turned into a really successful career. And then in the last, let me say, well, since giving birth to my daughter, my very first child, I fell in love with running. And I've just went on this crazy journey, um, pushing myself to limits. And you know, just I never started running with any intention. I completely my first race was a 10 key, and I thought that was like impressive, and I probably could never do more than that. So to sit here and have done all these crazy challenges is just it it feels like sometimes is this is this me? Because it's it's just so nice what what running can do, the the possibilities that it creates and the communities that it creates and the experiences. Um so yeah, that's a little bit about me.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Well, we'll get into the running part of things, obviously, in a little bit, because I think even saying that you've done some big things and some big challenges is probably playing it down a little bit, because uh yeah, I mean, we'll get into it down the line. Um, but let's let's start with the the career as a dancer then before then we get on to kind of motherhood and all of that as well. When did dancing first um come into your life? And then when was it when was it like a career? Because at some point you go from I do this because I enjoy doing this, to I do this because I'm better at it than a lot of people, which means I can do it professionally. And what was that like, that transition?

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Um so uh it is one of the very theatrical stories in the sense that dancing really did save my life, and I don't say that lightly. Now on reflection, I understand it at a lot deeper level, but it really did save my life. I came from quite a had a lot of like challenges growing up, um just low opportunity and just you know, like a I really didn't see a way out of the current situation that I lived in. Um and dancing really was that for me. It was a it was uh a place that I expressed my creativity, it's where I released emotions, it's where I really was able to deal with a lot of the things that was going on at home. Um only now I can reflect and see how like crucial that actually was to where I am today. But I fell in love with it from a very young age, and I knew from that young age that I was going to do this for the rest of my life. So um not so positive in ways because now I wish I did better at school because I was very tunnel vision. Like I don't need any of this stuff, like I know what I'm doing, and I know how I need to get there. It's a very specific route in terms of moving to London, getting into like one of the prestigious schools, getting an agent. There's this big long process that is required before even the chance of getting a job. So I just knew I had to go on that journey, and that journey was going to be really difficult because, like I said, I came from um a low-income family. There was no there was no real support in in that mission, and to be honest, I wasn't actually that good. Uh I had a lot of raw energy and passion, yes, and I could impact people because it was real, but in terms of like technically, um it wasn't really looking that promising, if I'm honest. When I was 16, the college in Scotland that I went to they basically said, don't go to London, you'll never make it. Um, I was very small, which again is was uh a difficulty for a lot of my career. Um I wouldn't get in the rooms because I wasn't the right height. It was just a lot of really just constant challenges. But fast forward, I got into London, one of the best schools. I worked five jobs to just even be there and make it work. I was, you know, working through the night and bars and it was really a challenging couple of years, but you know, the story ends great. I got um an agent, I got my first job in the West End. I went on like a European tour and then basically dialed into the commercial dance industry. So for music artists, I travelled the world with some of the biggest names. I was on the Brits, the MTB Awards, every award show you can imagine. And you know, the dream really actually did happen. Um and that I I would say I was like a 0.01% of that actually lining up and being possible. So, of course, what that taught me is that when you put your mind to something and when you're passionate about something, you really can go on and achieve something. So um it was a lot more deeper than I guess what a dancer, you're a dancer, it feels very like, but actually, it's a really challenging career, it's really, really tough, it's very oversaturated in talent as well. There's lots of amazing, incredible performers and dancers, and there's very little opportunity. So, to actually have a successful career is quite difficult. So, um yeah, that was that was a big part of my twenties basically. I lived in London and like I said, I was touring and travelling, and um what happened then is when I became successful and my dream came true, I realized that this isn't actually um this isn't where happiness lies. Because I got there, the dream came true, and I used to think when that dream comes true, when I make it, then everything'll be good. And actually what it did was like the polar opposite. I got there and realised wait, you put all your you put all your attention and all your energy and your eternal vision into this thing, into this goal, into this corporate career, into this professional dancer, whatever it is, and you get there and you land there and you realise that that was never going to fulfil you. So that really started a whole new journey for me, which then turned into me um, you know, getting justice for things that I went through as a child and and really starting to realise I had to go on a journey here, a spiritual journey. I had to, I had to unlearn everything that I understood from my past and I had to heal from all of the trauma that I had been through, which I didn't even realise I had been through. And running was at this running was a way in which I used to escape at that point in my life. So well, you know, going back 10 years here. Running was an escape originally, but what it then became in the 10 years was a running towards it. Became this thing that I would escape and I would um it was a way to to numb kind of what I was going through, and now I use it as a completely different experience, it's a growth experience, it's something that really allows me to go deeper and learn so much more about myself and you know push into these areas and this understanding of life that I would never have had. So running was a really pivotal point of my life there, and I fast forward from there. I became an entrepreneur, I've got a property company with my husband, and I realised that I could do so much more than dance, which was amazing. Um, and I just I yeah, I got this sense of there's so much more possibility to every human being, but certainly for me, overcoming all of this stuff from my childhood, it was almost like starting from a new slate. I had a new opportunity to reinvent myself, and um yeah, that's I guess where I am today, just using everything I've learned. And one of the main things is I want to inspire other people, I want to help other people, I want to be an influence that you can come from a Kenzo estate, you can have all these traumatic tags from a childhood, you can leave school at 15 years old and work in a building site, you can be told you'll never make it as a dancer, you can, you can, you can actually do it. Um so yeah, that's where I'm today. I love doing random things like going up, marathon's pregnant or with a bram. Like these are just like fun things on my like, I'll just get a thought one night and I'll be like, oh, that'd be cool, and then all of a sudden I'm training for something crazy. Um, but yeah, it's it's been it's been a really interesting journey and one that I look back on that it is a really important message because you people do need to know that no matter who you are, no matter what you've been through, no matter how much you believe you can or you can't do something, it actually is possible. Um so yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

I think that's so important as well, and that's an amazing message, and something that you like you definitely ooze with everything you put out on social media, but also your actions too, right? Like when we get onto some of those things that you've done, you kind of you kind of push that message via your actions. And I think not everybody does that. Some people push the message, but there's no actual sort of like evidence of that message. Um just going back to that moment of kind of acceptance that you know you've got to the point that you want to be, you're almost at the pinnacle of the profession when it comes to dancing, and then you realise like, huh, like maybe maybe this thing that I've dreamt of for my whole life isn't all that I'm supposed to be. How how do you accept that? Like, how do you how do you kind of move forward from that point? Because yeah, that's gotta be difficult.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Yeah, it it really was, and I think it's such an embod because there's so many athletes and professionals, football, all these different careers. It's a similar sort of pathway where you get to this heightened point and this pinnacle, and your identity is so tied to this. Like I was hello, my name's Chloe and I'm a dancer. It was very much like it my whole you have to be so tunnel vision to to make it happen. But what gets lost in that is that you become that, you become that product almost, and of course, that's could never be with like spiritual beings. So when I did arrive there, it was I guess bittersweet because it didn't all that time. I thought it was gonna answer all these problems, but it also was beautiful because it broke me in a way which allowed me to start to really heal. So it happened, it merged with a really critical point in my life where I would call it my life crash, let's say, um, and I mean that's gone back like eight years, and it was a real moment of so many aspects of my career and my um personal life and my family and all these different structures like breaking down, and in that moment I realised that you know you can re you can reinvent yourself, you can you can learn from this stuff, you can learn, unlearn everything that you thought it was, and you can start to and the most important part is self-heal, you can un you can learn to understand yourself. So um it was although really difficult, I guess it was also really freeing, and it was really an opportunity to s to realise oh, there's more. So although difficult, I feel like I really was really lucky in the sense that I got my mind to that point, and there was so much happening around me that was just if you know if you were to write in a bit of paper, it's like, well, that's a lot to go through in a small space of time. Like, how did you manage that? And you just have this well, and I guess that was by that glimmer of hope that there's so much more here, there's so much more to learn. You can, you know, that's a lot of baggage as well, especially when you don't know you're carrying a lot of baggage, which is like the majority of humanity. A lot of people that clients that come and see me, they will say something that really makes me, it does make me feel sad. Like, I don't have the big traumatic story, I don't have like I feel bad. I don't I've not been through what what you've been through, so I feel like I don't have a right to feel these feelings. And actually, what what it is is we all have stuff that has happened to us that's shaped us in a way that's made us believe what we believe. We have beliefs that are maybe not our own, they're our schools, they're our parents. They're you know, we've collected this this version of what life is, and there's a moment for everyone where you start to look at yourself and you start to to realise, oh, I've got work to do. This is a this is something that's an ongoing thing for the rest of your life. And I think it really also did the greatest gift, which was lift this expectation, this identity, pouring your identity into something. You have to be successful, you have to be something when actually really true happiness and true peace is really found in the simple things, especially when you become a parent. But even if you're not a parent, just being a kind person, just working hard, just following your passion, being a creator rather than a consumer, putting the right things in your body, you know, just being a good person, knowing that alcohol and the things that we do just because it's culture don't serve us, and actually making the decisions, all of these things can really shape you in in this whole new way. So long-winded answer, but bittersweet. So, yes, difficult to let go of that, but also really beautiful and free and all at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

And I think that's such an important point because you mentioned the word will back there, and it I I picked up on that is almost having that will to not only release yourself from the person that you were, but the will to push forward to become the person that you might want to be or think you can be in the future, and I think that's so important what you just said, because I think as a society as well, you get to 16 and it's like, what do you want to do with your life?

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Yeah. When you go to uni, you're gonna get a job, and it's we're in this like real system of this is what's normal. And I just think how could you ever know at that age what you want to be? And then how could uh when you finish your professional career and X, whatever that is, then what are you you don't you can't progress and be something else, and that's what I've really learned on this journey. There's this there's this constant reinventing yourself. You become a parent, you change again, you have a different life circumstance, you change again, you change country, you know, like it's actually allowing ourselves to enjoy the fact that we grow. I think we're so scared to grow, you know, you're always scared of that thing, you've changed. It's such a negative statement. Oh, you've changed, and it's like, of course, I hope I've changed, I hope I continue to change. Like, even the age thing, I think a lot of people at 30, if you're not married, if you don't have the kids, if you didn't get up that corporate ladder in the way that you once were told you would, or you thought if you didn't make it as that professional dancer or footballer, then you well, you failed because you're 30 now. And what I really realised is I'm 38 this year, and I'm like, I'm just beginning. Like, what a lie, what a lie that is, like what a pressure that is to think you have to have it all figured out when actually like your 40s and your 50s are the years that if you do the work now, put the right things in your body, consume the right information, you know, be be in the right rooms, be around the right people, then it's your 40s and 50s, you'll reap the rewards. Whereas most people are giving up at the 30 because they've got there in their like, wow, well, I failed at this start line. Um, and that's a real hack that I I find. And I think again, it does always come back to running because I think ultra running really teaches you that when you're on these races and you're next to a guy in his 60s who has all this knowledge and life experience and it's teaching you how to run properly. And you know, I'm I am I would say I am stuck, maybe not now, okay. But it was certainly at the beginning when I say I was I was a novice, I had no experience of navigation or being in the mountain. I I loved hill walking, but I thought I'll never be able to be in the mountains my myself. Um so uh being you know lost in these mountains yourself, it really you really tap into a different level of consciousness, I guess. Like you you really evolve just in that process. So that's it always does come back to running and that that thing of meeting these amazing people who are in their 60s that are doing these incredible things, it's like oh wait, still gotta this is you're in your prime as you age, you're you're literally in your prime as you age, and so that's kind of what I've been I've been leaning into in the last like five years, and I will continue to do so now into my 50s. And it's like what does your life look like then? What is your health like? What is your ability to go on and do what do you learn in that time? What new skills do you learn? What where you know where are you then? So um it's so exciting, and again, I I I do think running has gave me a lot of this insight.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

You're allowed, you're allowed to change, you're allowed to try, you're allowed to do, like, don't think that you're not.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

You're allowed to feel you are literally like feel, yeah. Like, please feel, please change, please make mistakes, like please do all these things.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

I actually don't think I've ever thought of the power of that word, like allowed, like but the way you were talking then and the way you put it into context, whether you meant to or not, like just that word of like you don't have to be the person that you thought you were, you can be a different person, and you are a different person. It'd be weird if you weren't. You're allowed to do the thing.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Why we are so scared of that is because if you lose them parts of yourself that felt like they were the integral parts of who you were as a person, but you've never reviewed that person. Do I like that person now? It's do I like the qualities of that person? Do do I it's like self-inventory, and that's what I really started. Self-awareness, it's the same words, but this like uh idea of self-inventory going, oh wait, I I I did miss that. Uh oh, I wasn't such a good person that oh wait, I am slacking in that. We're so scared to do that because if you call yourself out, then you have to take action. And if you call yourself out and then don't take action, then there's a bigger, um, a bigger carrier of guilt on your back. So you're in this like dichotomy of like, oh, best just to keep going and just stay as I am and just stay in line and stay in the lane. What uh when actually if you are if you can humbly like call yourself out, and that's what I think I think a lot of the world is so but we're so busy as human beings, we all do it. We all like to call each other out and tell each other what we're all doing wrong. But actually, when it comes to yourself, it's a really it's a really tough pill to swallow. And I think that's a really crucial part of this. Like, look at yourself, what do I like? What do I not like? Like, what what type of people do I want to be around? Are these people serving me? Do I actually like this career? But I've been in it 10 years and I've climbed and have I lost all that income. Like, what happens when you're willing to sacrifice comfort um in order to progress and grow? And again, back to the ultra running, exactly what you do, you voluntarily suffer, you sacrifice comfort in order to take you to a place which is not even a nice place for a long period of time that in the end will transform you and a different version of yourself. And I think we can really use that skill and implement that and uh in everyday life. Um, so yeah, that's why I love this sport, and I just think about this sport as well, and I think like I am of course, like yes, I was a professional dancer, but you know, I'm not an athlete, and I certainly wasn't a runner, I didn't have running experience as such. Um, so I really was not an athlete, and then I look at what I've done running-wise now, and it's this everyday athlete, like as if there was this culture now of just normal people setting themselves these challenges, going on these adventures, pushing themselves out of the comfort zones, and doing really remarkable things with their bodies. It's really tearing to what you get when you sign up for these races and you become a part of these types of communities.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

And as well, like the the bringing it as well back to to running. From what you were saying there. I I've done that to myself a couple of times where I'm like, and just being totally honest, I'll be like, I don't want to do this race because I know I'm not in the shape that I want to be in to be able to do it. I've I've said that to myself and I've I've I've like admitted that like I don't think I'm fit enough, I don't think I'm gonna get what I want to get, being very like blunt with it, and I'm not gonna do it. But actually, sometimes it's better to do it. It's better to see where you're at.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

It's so it's just a weird thing.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

It's better to do it, it's better to feel where you're at, because then you can move forward from that point, and then that's I mean that's a great analogy for life, isn't it? I've got to know where you are and then move forward.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Yeah, exactly. But it just as you said, that just made me really think, and it'll be funny, it'll be a great tie-in to potentially stuff that we can do together. But um, it was actually the Ibiza Marathon, and I had just moved to Ibita, and I thought it was like roundabout Mother's Day, and I was thinking, oh, what could I get? And um I saw the Ibiza Marathon, so I was like, what a great if I I had never run with the pram in a race, and it was always in the back of my mind I want to run a race with the pram. I've just moved to Ibita, what a great way to see the island. I won't really need to run, I'll just like walk a lot of it, and I'll just be part of the day sort of vibe. Um anyway, I got the date mixed up, and it turned out that when I had booked a race, I thought that I had maybe like three weeks, but it was actually that weekend, so I was like, Whoa, okay, not trained. Um, but it's okay, like I said, I'm gonna do it with the pram anyway. So I show up to the race and I've got my little girl, and we're already getting the number, and they're like, No, you can't, you're not allowed to run with that pram. And I'm like, I emailed and no one got back and said no. Um they were like, Oh, absolutely not. They were very blunt, and it was just like my whole world was like, Okay, this is turning into like a whole new thing. So I thought I've not trained, I had no training in whatsoever. I've not trained. I was ex my brain isn't even in the thing of I'm gonna do this marathon. Anyway, fast forward, I gave my daughter to my husband, and I'm like, I'm not really feeling this, babe. But and also my time, I had put my time was like five or six hours because I thought if I'm with the pram, so they put me right at the back, and even then my ego was like, No, all this is just that hard no. So I'm at the back with the slow runners, and I'm just like not trained, not prepared. The race starts. Fast forward, I go through this whole journey, and I end up there's this woman on the bike next to me, and because I was so nervous to this that I didn't realise that if you're coming first, second, or third, that you then have um a pacer with you. So I'm thinking this woman, because she's Spanish, so she's not talking, is thinking, why is that girl with a six-hour bib here? She's in the wrong bit. So I'm like having this whole mental thing, so I'm exhausted as well. And I'm like, what is going on? And why is she next to me like this? And why is she not talking? Like, does she think I shouldn't be here? I'm thinking all these like negative thoughts, which is so hilarious because when as the race has gone on, then I realized that wait, she's with me. She's like, Do you need do you need anything? Do you need water? Do you need and I'm like, wait, she's like, Yes, you're coming third. So I went from the back of this race, not even thinking, I've not trained, I've not, I was just and something totally happened. And now I've got this pacer and I'm coming third in the ID for marathon, and then I realized and I'm like, Whoa, this is crazy. She's like, come on, right, you got this. Anyway, I was like, maybe not even maybe it was a kilometer from the the finish line, and she was with me the full time, like, you've done it, you've and I'm just thinking my husband is gonna be like, What is happening how have you what is going on? Uh it was a big race as well. There was like loads of people, and they were like, people were fast. I was thinking, oh wow, they're gonna be so good. And then I'm like coming third. Everyone's like they take it really serious in IVA as well, in terms of like the really respect runners, so the people are like, Chica, chica, woo, fucked. And I'm like, Well, this is cool a lot. I wasn't even wanting to run this race. Um, but when I got like a kilometer from the finish line, my brain, right? So please, this is actually really good advice. My brain, there was people now in cafes and stuff all down the streets, and my brain was like, Wow, look at that woman, she looks so relaxed. I'm gonna be her in a minute, and honestly, in that moment, no joke, my legs completely cramped up. The I didn't have enough salt, so that obviously was the physical part, but it was the mental switch of me relaxing that that it pulled my focus. I remember it so specifically, it pulled my focus, and something in my body must have like signalled to relax. And anyway, my legs spasmed, I couldn't move my legs. I was like, a doctor ran over and she was like, Oh my god, you're having it's like a typical thing at the end of a marathon. And I'm just like, and my little pacer's like, Come on, come on, you need to. And I was like, I can't physically walk. It was horrible. Anyway, so I got to the end bit and she was still with me. She's like, You done it, you done it. So I was like, Wow. And then it turns out in that kilometer, I I ended up coming fifth, so I never got on the podium. So I was like, Wow! Um, but just a great lesson in terms of okay, so I wasn't fueled, I wasn't prepared, I wasn't trained, I wasn't any of these things, but I actually have the ability to do well in this stuff, like that's crazy. Um, so that was a really funny story, and and an important story. I think when you don't want to do it is the time that you should do it most. Was the overall with the message though?

SPEAKER_00 27:39

That is so, so true. And yeah, I I mean that is a story you'll have forever as well. What a what an amazing thing. What an amazing thing to have happened. When did when did it first become uh more about you know going out and doing these big challenges and going out and doing these races and thinking and thinking up these um thinking up these records in your head and like I'm gonna give that a crack because there's a there's a kind of there's a journey, isn't there, between running away from something, running towards something, but then running towards something bigger.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Yeah, it was. Um I have one of my really good friends, her partner, he he's a really good friend, but he started Ultra Running and he was doing really amazing work and charities, and we've done some things together in terms of things for mental health, and you know, the really big Is that Lewis? Yeah, Lewis, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

So Lewis has been on. Lewis has been on here as well. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Oh wow, right. Yeah, so um this is a lot of this is really thanks to Lewis believing in me. We've known each other for many years, and I'm really good friends with Steph, his his fiance. Um, so we've known each other for a long time. So I always saw him doing start I start I saw him start his journey, and one day it was just on Instagram he put something up about coaching, and I was like, I want to do one of these races one day because I I just knew like I want to try something like that. Um and I had done a marathon and stuff by this point. I had, you know, like I had found like running, I sh had found a connection of how I could create impact with running. I did this marathon around Glasgow um on my own and I raised money for this little boy. It was at the time where my life was really messy, and it gave me this anchor to be like, oh, there's purpose here. Like I I like this feeling, I like the challenge, and I like raising money and awareness that was like a match, but anyway, that paused, I got pregnant, um, it was COVID, there was a lot of upheaval in that chapter of my life as well, moving from London to Scotland and all of this stuff. Um and when I had my daughter, I had run all the way up through that pregnancy and exercised, and I just knew by this point I I was into breathwork. I just knew I needed to look after my body and I can not even bounce back, it's not the right word, but uh you don't need to you don't need to conform to what you've been told about how you should rest for this amount of time and how women really struggle. It's like all the struggle, struggle, struggle to get back, and I was like that it doesn't have to be the reality for everyone. So I had my little girl, um obviously you have to wait till like five months, but in my head I was like, I want a running pram, I want a running pram, and I was really nervous to get one because it's not really typically something you would see around busy streets of Glasgow. Um so there was a little bit of vulnerability in that, and I'm I'm very confident, and I've just came from this performing career in London, and I was always a bit different anyway. So I thought, no, but I really there's something really calling me to do this. Started got the prime, started running, fell in love, was doing these like 10ks every day, getting really good times. We'd stop at the park. It became like part of how I brought up my daughter, and it was so so impactful, special. It completely changed my life. So um I saw Lewis post and I was like, I want to do something like this, and he was like, Let's jump on a call. Called me like the next day, and he was like, right, we're signing you up for this 125 kilometre race that Ultra X Scotland, and I was just like, There's no way, there's no way on this earth that I could do that. I just thought there is after how I felt after a marathon, how could you then do to 75 kilometers, then the next day 50? Like there's no way. Um but yes, he signed me up, he got me sorted, he gave he coached me all the way through it, and yeah, that was my first kind of taste of it, and that sorry if I don't want to go on too much, but I'd love to just share the story of course that really was truly a transformational point in my life and a really, really important. So anyway, I've signed up for this 125 kilometre race. I don't really feel like I fit in in this community one because I just feel very underexperienced because it the realization was I've got a part of my brain that's like I can do anything. Obviously, I'll be able to get through it, of course, and then you show up and you're like, Whoa, okay, people are really prepared. Like, I don't know, I was just like, I'm not prepared. So I had no navigation skills whatsoever. I didn't even have a Garmin watch, I borrowed someone's loose, got someone to give me one at the race. Like one of the race team gave me the Garmin watch. I'd never used it, so they put the map on for me, bless them. Um they put the map on, and I'm just like, wow, and then the Ultra X courses are you know, they'll they're not easy. To the point where you're angry because you're like this. I remember Louis telling me, he's like, there will be points where you get really mad, like this can't be safe. Like, how have you brought me on this route? Like, this doesn't make sense, and you because you're so tired and wow, that's exactly what I did. The the flags were like this size, right? They were tiny, and you know, you're in the middle of mountains, but not in the middle of a track on a mountain, like a path. You're like in the moss, and you're trying to follow these little flags, and it's just open space, and it's it's very you're you're very vulnerable, you're very, very exposed, and you're tired, and you know, so it was a whole thing. Um, but anyway, on day one at 30 kilometres, I fell down like a ditch of moss, and it went right up to my hip bone, so so it was very, very deep. So one of the steps that I took, so I pulled my leg out, and and as I pulled it out, I don't know, I don't know what I've I've injured like my hip and my ankle. So then this is at 30k, so now I've still got um 45 to go after this, and I'm like I I'm not a complainer. When I was a professional dancer, I would break my arm and still do the show. Like I was known as crazy. Like I do not like injuries don't affect me. This was starting to become very, very painful, and obviously I was inexperienced, and you know, there was really there was like I said, there was older guys and stuff really mentoring me through, and it was just amazing. I got through the first day and I was like, wow, but I was like in I was my body was in so much shock, and of course, at the night you spend you sleep in a tent with 10 people, freezing big, massive tent. You're already your body's just been through a 75k of shock, you've got this injury now, you've had physio, you're eating dried food, and you're just like what I'm so inexperienced. Like, what is my life? But it's in another weird way, like absolutely loving the whole thing. Um, so I woke up in the morning and I could not walk. Like, I mean, my ankle was huge. I was trying to go and brush my teeth to before the start, and I was I was really struggling, and I'm like, there's no way, like there is like there's like there's no way. Got to the start line, I met my friend from the day before, this older guy, experienced, very experienced runner, and I was like, I'm really struggling. He was like, right, here's the tips, you just take it so you go to one point, and you know, he was like talking me through all this. Anyway, I started the race with him, and at one point, this was where it really sunk in. He was like, I'm gonna have to leave you. He's like, of course, like sorry, but it's his race, and I of course totally respected it and was like, I'm so proud that you go. But what that did was like really like hit on my morale because the injury was getting significantly worse with every step that I took. The the ankle was like massive, completely bruised, like really, really bad. Um, and I'm like, now I got to the point where I was like, I'm not running, I was limping right and dragging my leg. People were stopping me. Do you want us to help lift you? Because again, there was no station for quite a while. I think I was like 10 kilometers in, and I think it was like 12k to the next station. So there's no signal, there's no people apart from some passers, but it's quite sporadic in in these big races. And anytime someone did pass, they would give me Kamcodomar, or they'd be like, they could see that that I was really injured. So when it got like there was no people, I started. I was like genuinely screaming, like because I was so mad because I thought, no, I don't want to stop this race. Like, this is my first ever race. I am not starting, like, this is unfair. Like, this is really unfair, and I've trained hard. I I could smash this on the first day. I think I came fifth or something, and so I was like, Whoa, this is cool, like I like this. So I was really upset, it was really difficult. So I was like genuinely screaming out. And at this point in my life, I wasn't religious, I wasn't um saying the word God or Jesus was very much out of my vocabulary vocabulary, and it just wasn't something that I necessarily believed in. Um I knew obviously there's so much more to life, and I was on a spiritual journey, and you know, I was like on a path, so I was very much open-minded, but certainly not like that. So anyway, I'm like, please God, I start to pray, and I'm like, I am really praying, and you know, like I said, you're in the middle of the mountains, there's no people, you've been in your head for these like two days now, you're so deep, you're not distracted by your phone or life, or like it's you and you are in such a process right now, a deep, deep, deep process. And so I call out and I'm like, please God, I'm like, please, son. I'm like, I'm like a crazy person, and I've never done this as well. So I was like, oh, crazy person, but again, go with it. Um and it was almost like I got prompted to take my phone out, and again, like on ultra marathons, you don't tend to have music or you don't really listen to it's not like uh you don't you don't have your phone necessarily in the race, um but it was like get your phone and on my phone I had this one David Gorgons video downloaded on my YouTube from like before and I clicked on it and it was very specific. It was David Goggins basically saying, I've injured my left leg, which was what I had injured. I'm on a I'm on this ultra marathon. The doctors are saying stop, but I'm gonna know that I am different. And he was like, you know how David Goggins is, he was like going in and I was like, Wait, I am different, like I am different. If you can do it, I can do it. I was doing this whole thing, and uh stopped playing the thing, and then honestly, like people will think I'm crazy, but I'm just stating what happened. Uh a voice, Jesus or God came to me and they said, Say your daughter's name, like and then I'm like, I am literally losing my mind, like this is like took me so deep. Like, I'm hearing voices, I'm now being asked to say my daughter's name, that feels very strange. Okay, so my daughter's called Soul, so I'm like, Soul, and I'm like, this is so awkward, but I'm still like limping, pulling my leg, and it's like no. So I'm like, okay, it's like a whole a whole process to just like start to like chant this. So I thought, oh, do you know what? Oh and there's there's no other option here. So I'm like, so, so, so, so, and I mean I am saying this it gets into like a rhythm where I'm not now no longer in control of this like process, I'm just like saying the word, and honestly, yeah, this could be a story in the Bible as well, because this is an actual miracle. I went from dragging this really injured leg to running while chanting my daughter's name, but running in a way where like there was now no pain. I was kind of like in this floating pace. I started to overtake everyone who was trying to help me, and they're all and I didn't stop saying I didn't even I didn't even acknowledge them, I just could only say the name was distracting me so much from the pain and what the sensations that I was going through. I was so tunnel vision that I'm now running past all these people that were like that girl was not okay, shouting so, so just in in focus, and I finished that race, and that was so that was around 10k. Sorry, around like 20k the doctors and the medics were like, You need to stop like right now, like it's unsafe for us to let you go. And I was like, I am absolutely not done. I have tapped into something. I mean it was extru excruciating, it was a long, long, it was a long slog, but there was some sort of energy that was carrying me through that, and that that has completely I mean that's completely changed my life because that was such a physical moment to go from genuinely not being able to walk to running 40 kilometers way with a lot of pain but manageable pain, really strange experience. It was like when I um I gave birth to my second child, I had like a home buff and I did the whole thing natural and again. It was the same technique, and now that I could use the power of my mind in prayer to to navigate through this really painful situation, and the same thing happened. It's like it made me access this realisation that you can lean on stuff bigger to to to move through really challenging situations. So that was my first ever ultra marathon. So as you can imagine, from there I was just hooked. I'm like, this is insane, like this is insane. So um yeah, from there did Lewis's 250 kilometre race, um, his first ever one, why we run, which was so special as well, and such a meaningful project and an amazing thing to be a part of. But again, on the last day, uh I mean not on the last day, on like the second day, I got really injured. So this really does play into the fact of I think what we see online now is everyone's doing these sports and these challenges, and we at we absolutely all can do them. But I wasn't an athlete and I was a novice, and I wasn't, I just started training and my nutrition probably wasn't on point, and my sleep probably as a new mum wasn't on point on most of them. Um I w I'm not actually an athlete, and I'm not I don't have the the real focus on training that a proper athlete does, but I'm putting my body in situations not fully prepared and and and getting injured a lot of the time. So um that's been a big realisation. Um I got really injured in that 250 kilometre race, but again, I got through it. Um on the last day, I I was in a boot by the last day, like an actual boot. I started the race in the boot, and then I was like, right, the ego has to go. There's something so much more powerful than than finishing a race. I've already done that before, like that story I just told. That's not what this story is about. This this lesson is different. This lesson is about there's a point in your running journey or your normal life where you're being asked to stop, and it's for the right reason, and it's to you know realize that there's growth in that, and that was a whole thing in itself. So, um yeah, every time I've done any of these races, like the IPFA one or any has this big amazing story that is just so transformational, and yeah, that's why I love it. I think it's so special, and of course, how we met and the reason that we're having this conversation has got to be the most special to date, like that is yeah, something that all the all of these experiences will stay with you forever, and and uh in this world where everything is you want everything so fast, and there's so much distraction, and comparing yourself and success, and more and more and more and more these big races where you get days to your yourself to just endure and dig deep and suffer and you know just go on this complete journey or the greatest gift and that goes back to my earlier point of when you hit the success in your professional career why you don't feel fulfilled you feel more fulfilled taking yourself out of reality into the mountains pushing yourself physically surrendering you know sacrificing all of these things that really are what's shaped my reality right now and have the ability to do that which is so cool yeah and it and it's and it's it has shaped your reality you as a person and the person that you will become as well and I'm gonna obviously we're gonna go to good words in the not too distant future but before that I think it's important that we touch on you as a mother and motherhood and what that means to you because I think probably listening to that story people can tell what motherhood means to you with the way that you got through that first race and actually what got you through that.

SPEAKER_00 45:03

But becoming a mother changes you completely your whole life what life means and what these little people now mean to you. So for you who was doing something for a very long time which was very like singular focused like trying to get to a point in a career you've now got many other things to think about. What what was that like in um is being a mother what you think what you thought it would be or is it totally different?

SPEAKER_01 45:53

Or worry about things that you can't really worry about. So from the beginning in the offset I did find that I don't dare I say easy but I just I just from the beginning I had a different approach. Again I think it's that's why your your childhood experiences are so crucial in shaping you and I think a lot of people have had negative experiences see it as a negative thing whereas for me it's like a post it's like the most an incredible thing because it shapes you to be able to deal with hard situations later on in life. So I'm so grateful for that because when I became a mum I knew how I wanted to do it. From a very I've been thinking about this a lot recently but from a very young age I was very vocal in the fact that I wanted to be a mum from very young and it I'm laughing now because it if only I could make it so obvious and how serious I am when I'm saying this and how unusual it would have been if if you actually had met me as a child and just the environment and just culture then everything then it would be very strange for a young child to be so I want to become a mum but I I knew very early like I'm gonna become a great mum not because I because I had the worst parents it's not even I don't even mean that they did their best it's just because I knew what I wanted to do. I know how I knew how I wanted it to be and of course it doesn't go like that for sure and you're not perfect and what I'm learning is there's so much to learn and there's so much growth within that it really does. I know there was a different way and I remember sitting in the one of the first appointments and it was talking about health and how you have to you know kind of take the feet off the gas in terms of your exercise and from that moment I thought wait these people are giving me advice based off a generic audience of what they think is capable for that full audience of millions of people that have different lifestyles different experiences and I thought like I'm different from that because I've used my body my full life so from there I started to kind of like challenge narratives and you know think about how I would do it different and from the get-go I guess that's what I've done not to be like the opposite of everyone but just to be very open to realizing that there's maybe I need to relearn this maybe I need to understand this differently maybe I need to look at current data maybe maybe everything like cold sleeping isn't bad maybe that you shouldn't really just jump to form formula of if you can really try and breastfeed maybe you can have a home buff like I didn't have a home buff in my first birth I never thought that that was even possible I you know and you you go you learn all these things about the birthing system and a whole other story but what it taught me was like I get to choose how I want to be a mum and it's up to me. It's actually a lot harder than I thought in terms of how if you want to be a good parent then there's you have to learn how to be a good parent. It isn't just you become a parent and then well that's your job and you you do you know the day to day you just get on with it and you do the chores and the stuff but behind that you really need to learn you need to really understand like these tiny little human beings and emotion and how to navigate this stuff to listen to your own body and your own maybe I want to sleep with my children. Maybe that is something that I want to do and experience what is the data on that what is actually the research on that and that's been a whole thing that I guess I could say I never expected I never expected that I had to I kind of just thought you just this is the way and you just do it and that's just how you do it and it probably will be really hard and you can't have your career after that and you have to give up all these things and you won't be able to go on holiday and all of these things all of these things like you don't want I don't want to do any of the things anyway. So I didn't lose anything I just realized that they were things that I didn't actually enjoy doing now what I get to do is figure out how I love being a parent and this isn't to take away it's super hard and you know when you're a creative person and when you do love building and when you do love challenges and you know growing businesses and you're getting all these ideas and you want to do stuff and you're limited then then there's a realization that that the season of life I'm in right now my focus is my children and it whatever I can do on the side of that is amazing and and good but really the focus is my children and how do I do it a bit different well like you said at the beginning a big part of that is rather than telling them what to do it's like show them by what I'm doing. Give them the blueprint because what is normal is what you create so for us normal became running when we moved to Ibifa I ran every single day on that island with my daughter like what an incredible year of her life to you know go go run down the seafront of this beautiful island music on we'd stop we'd get like lunch we we would dance we would you know I had this whole thing I would take sometimes I would take her friends in the pram so I'd have like two or three of them and I'd run through the beef people were like going to like the clubs and they're just looking at me like you this like crazy like alien like what is going on but it was just so liberate and I thought like I've got to a point in my life where like I know what I know what brings you the joy and the peace and the happiness and um so yeah a lot of my my motherhood has been that challenging narratives challenging my own narratives by the way not not external narratives what I believed what I thought was normal what what I thought you had to do and gone right is that what you believe but okay let me actually look at data let me do research and in that became a completely different story and like I said I am the more I learn the more I'm like wow there's so there's so much to go on like whether you're a parent or not there is just so much to contend with nowadays like your attention has been taken there is so much in our food system and our water systems and all these different things that are affecting our health and our ability to be creative and you know you know really grow there's just there's so much externally to contend with that it's a process and that's what I've realized that I'm not perfect but if I can just show my children you can achieve anything and if I show my children normal might not look normal like I'm to my to my daughter like and our friends like I'm they're like you're crazy and I'm like yeah yeah this is exactly what we made this is brilliant because that what what is crazy about any of this stuff there's nothing crazy about you know following your passion I'm not saying everyone needs to become an ultra runner and do all these crazy challenges or you know have all these business ideas and you you don't need to do any of the things but you just can do it your own way is more the point and and yeah my way is how do I give my children a really joyful fun life and how do I show them that pushing yourself physically and using your body and help what you're putting in your body and again that I am not there but I'm now starting to unlearn myself and by me unlearning and then teaching and again I'm not not we're not there yet but we're having these different conversations that one I didn't have as a child of course but two that I never had with my children or expected to have so um yeah I'm in this real learning phase of parenting but taking on these specifically the the Goodwood challenge that did start as a breastfeeding thought like I was breastfeeding and I was thinking what could I do this year like I don't know what I want to do but I want to sign up I love signing up for something is such a crucial part whether it's a 5k or 10k having a goal is was the game changer for me when I when I really dialed into the importance of having little goals throughout your year physical goals it really does keep you on track and so I was like what can I do next and I had run the the ultra marathon at five months pregnant again against everyone's will that's a bad idea that's dangerous that's very selfish you should never do that that's not a all these negative things that the baby and how they're gonna be and what you could do to the baby and all the fear and the fear and the fear and I knew my my my body knew I knew that the priority was always the safety of my child my unborn child but I also knew and could feel that my body's also capable and I think by me leaning into its capability I'm gonna benefit from the reward of this risk and and I really do think I did I ran that ultra marathon five months pregnant the only ultra marathon to be honest that I never got injured I finished in a great condition across that finish line my baby kicked like um it hadn't kicked the full day so I was like oh my god but okay and it was through the Welsh mountains and there was one point where I thought nah I've really messed this up this is a this was a bad idea it was terrain was quite bad the boulders were free honestly some of the boulders were like two times the size of me like and you're climbing up these and I've got this bump and I'm at the top of this mountain peop every single person who went down the mountain fell down the mountain I'm watching them drop like flies and I'm thinking I'm pregnant and I'm just about to go down I go down the mountain people bowl and ball into me so we all fall down the mountain and I'm just thinking I've that this is this is not good but but in a weird sense know that everything was completely good and and it honestly as I finished the the finish line if I crossed the finish line lake kicked as if like well done mum it was crazy and like I said I went on to have a really successful home buff I bounce I don't even again want to say bounce back because I don't think that that's a good message to encourage and I'm not encouraging that but again you can like and I wanted to I want to get back to my I want to be fit I want to be an able mum I want to you know like what happens when you get fit is like your mind and the you know post net depression all of these things are real but if you do the things that help by getting fit by putting the right things in your body by having these goals by you know pushing yourself then you your narrative doesn't have to be like everyone else's and that's what it taught me I've got the healthiest baby boy he is I mean he's incredible and I did that in five months and then ran with him in that pram and now he also was he he got the world record as well it wasn't just me it was a joint effort he was with me in all day training sessions he could have really caused it could have been so difficult I could have not completed it very easily if he was upset of course then that would have been the priority and I would have stopped there's there was no reason to do this so the priority was always gonna be with Lake and you know this was just really a bit of fun and a bit of like tongue in cheek I did the five month pregnant ultra vote how fun if I did it with him in the Pram like a year later like that would be a fun a fun a fun thought more so which then that fun thought turned into something a lot bigger I guess because it then became like oh wait I would like to maybe get sponsored by brands or I would like to I do love running and I do love this career and I do want to get parents pushing these prams and I do want to share this message of how running has changed my life so why don't I you know you because I've done all these amazing things and none really documented them that well or really shown that you can just be a normal person and then do all these things and so what what a good opportunity to maybe get more people running with these prams and um and it did do that and it was so so special and that baby he did not even not even once did that baby cry in that race. And I'm it's actually incredible so now he has a world record so when he's five and it was like oh look what you got you got that and I'm not saying that you need that but what a great representation of if you've conditioned to think that you should strive for things like world records then when what what does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 58:36

How does that shape you in terms of your discipline and so um so yeah that that really was what a day what a day for people that don't know Chloe because I'm aware that we haven't like given them the exact context there so like if people are discovering you for the very first time here give us the headline of what you did on that day at Goodwood Motor Circuit um so the fastest female for running an ultramarathon with a pram but I'd just like to make a note on that right I didn't sign up for the fastest female that wasn't my intention my intention was to what a fun thing to do get this race I realised that there was no it was crazy how I even found that there was no one who had set that record which actually in the end I was like that's crazy it had only been a guy that set it I was like wow really because it you know it's quite hard to find a world record that not someone's done um so when I signed up I didn't sign up for the fastest that wasn't my intention it was just more so to do it and the record is the fastest and I do like think about that and I know I shouldn't but I didn't it wasn't fast the the weather conditions on that day really I don't want to be like blame game but it really did affect my type because pushing the pram against the winds at a pot it was really really torrential rain and it was really windy and it was it was quite at like a fight and and injuries started to flare up and then I I was trying to go I'm probably trying to go too fast because I had the pressure of like the fastest so I need to impress the running world because people will look at it and be like that wasn't that fast and then I was like wait this was not the intention I'm literally I've I've just stopped breastfeeding like a month ago and I've not been training because you can't I wasn't really running because I had the baby and you can't start running until he's five six months he's now eight uh ten months here so it was like three four months of not even big training not like yes I'm about to set a world record training just I'm a mum trying to get some like you know miles in um so it wasn't so I'm a little bit so the record is the fastest and and I would have liked to do it faster but here we are you're gonna do it again I can see it I can see it I can see it um I think a good place to point people to as well is I'll I'll stick the Instagram link to Chloe in this in the description of this podcast so if you're watching on youtube or listening genuinely just go and have a look at Chloe's Instagram uh scroll back to the record and there's a load of content since then as well but some of the some of the footage is just like when you talk about inspiring it's unbelievable and it must have felt just out of body almost crossing that line and realising what you've just done. But also after the fact and I know you said this already but like also seeing loads of other mums and dads I would imagine saying oh you know what I'm gonna go and push a pram I'm gonna go and run with a pram I didn't even know you could do that. I bet that has happened over and over and over again.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

And it was and that because when it's again it was back to that dance career thing a lot of these races I I learned that in a lot when I did the the pregnant one like I got again I got across the finish line I did feel very proud for like a couple of minutes I was like whoa this is incredible but then there was that feeling of why don't I feel because it I was like it wasn't ever about that it wasn't about me finishing it was about the message it was about for me like God using my vessel as a way to show what is possible it's not really about oh Chloe look at Chloe she ran an ultra matter of impregnant go Chloe it wasn't when I realized oh wait it's not even about that it's actually a bigger than that it's a bigger I I'm just a vessel for a certain message that yes you can become a mum and yes you can become randomly become an athlete and get again is what it is so random it's actually really funny and but yes you can do that and it's not you're amazing for doing that how incredible you it's like oh wait you're just a vessel and we all just have vessels so if you can do it then I can do it and when I when I got that context and when that kind of downloaded it was like oh wow this is amazing and like you said the the most amazing part was women sending me videos running with prams like because I know it's so much bigger than running that bond that you create with your child whilst running is some sort of magical formula the connection although you're not IEI because you're behind and you're pushing I'm crazy again I'm like on the road like playing big a boo like music is so loud people are just looking babies singing swinging the feet it's just like we've got a whole thing going on it's a whole event but just having no distraction from chores or your phone or work or emails and just being in the moment you talk to your baby obviously when they get bigger like my little girl we had the best times like we had the best conversations the best moments of singing you know that singing in the car with your parents that whole you know you see it in the movies and it's that moment where you have that connection as a family you're getting I'm getting that every single day with late right now and and with my little girl and that is so special so for me to see other families get that whilst being able to train and all the other benefits that come from just running is so so special it really really is and it is such an incredible and the babies love it that's the bit that I really try and stress it look could look if you don't understand that oh selfish mum just wants to run and take her baby with her but there's I don't know if it's like the motion the the speed because obviously you walk wear pram and that's why you would go on a long walk to calm the baby and get it outside so it's the same concept as if you're just going a bit faster and I think with that pace the peace that the baby feels and the connection that the baby feels like that's when they're at their best and one time my tire burst and with my little girl and she would sit in the pram and be like when are we going? When are we going? Like when are we going? And we're going on a run run run and I'm like wow and I hadn't done it for a few weeks and her behavior was starting to you know being in the house and I started running again and instantly it was like whoa this is this is a real parent hack like this is an actual parent hack where you can you know you can hack time which is the thing that you don't have you can't go to the gym because you don't have time because you've got the baby but you feel guilty because you're not doing enough for the baby because you need to you know take the baby out or go to the pub or do something like that so why not encompass it all on the one hour? It's like it's such a hack it's it's incredible and yeah if I can keep pushing that story and that narrative that yes you can just be a mum but you can do amazing things that you never keep up that you never ever thought you could do and you can show your children what's possible and you can lead by example that's all a few years ago Would have been very fairy and and nice and inspiring, and hopefully one person picks it up. But now I feel like without being finishing morbidly, we are living in very no times and territory, and I think the only way you can ever combat the times that we're living in is to get strong in the things you can control, your mind, your body, and your spirit. You can really come into your own alignment and you know create your own armor, regardless of what's going on on outside externally. You know you can do hard things, you know you can, you know, pull up the big boots when you have to pull them up, you know that your mind is strong, your body's strong, you're healthy, you've put the right things in your body, then you have some sort of fighting chance, and I think that is an important point of this as well. Like, we need to lead by example for our children, we need to be strong for our children, we need to be able to navigate whatever challenges will arise in the coming decade, and these are ways in which you can do it whilst incorporating them into your life. It's just amazing.