#167 - How Full Time Teacher Charlie Sandison Became A 2:15 Marathon Runner

Charlie Sandison joins Ben Sheppard on The RunThrough Podcast to share how he's balanced life as a full time teacher with becoming a 2:15 marathon runner.

Juggling early mornings, long days in the classroom and a demanding training schedule, Charlie has built an incredible running career alongside his profession. He talks about finding consistency, making sacrifices and why being kind to yourself is just as important as chasing ambitious goals.

The pair dive into Charlie's journey from competitive swimming to marathon running, and how a love of the sport has taken him further than he ever imagined. Charlie reflects on his London Marathon experience, where things got tough midway through the race. Instead of focusing solely on times and splits, he chose to embrace the atmosphere, soak up the support and enjoy one of the biggest days of his life.

Now, with performances that once felt impossible already achieved, Charlie explains why his relationship with running is evolving. He still wants to run faster, but creating memories, enjoying the process and making the most of every opportunity are becoming just as important.

This is a conversation about balancing ambition with a busy career, finding joy in the pursuit of big goals and proving that extraordinary performances can come from ordinary people who are willing to put in the work.

Charlie Sandison - https://www.instagram.com/charlie_sandison/?hl=en

Ben Sheppard - https://www.instagram.com/bensheppard93/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Run Through Podcast. It is Ben Shepard here, and today we've got Charlie Sanderson on the show. Charlie is a legend, a full-time teacher, and a 215 marathon runner. Balancing early mornings in the classroom with huge training weeks. Charlie has built an incredible running career alongside his day job, proving that you don't have to be a full-time athlete to chase world-class performances. In this conversation, we chat about how he makes it all work, from finding consistency around a busy schedule to the sacrifices that come with chasing big goals. We dive into his journey from competitive swimming to marathon running, his recent London marathon experience, and why his relationship with the sport is always evolving. For Charlie, running isn't just about chasing faster times anymore. Of course, there's that element, but it's about creating memories, enjoying the process and making the most of every opportunity that comes his way. I love this conversation. A brilliant chat about ambition, balance, and giving your awe to something or multiple things that you love. Charlie Sanderson is on the Run Through podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Structure's great, but you do have to somewhat be adaptable and flexible. I'm doing longer hours at work or I haven't got enough sleep and adapting the sessions to suit that. Some of the younger sort of reception boys, one of them, asked me today, uh, oh, did you win the race? And I was like, what race? The MARFA? And I was like, no, no, I didn't run in the London Martha. You want every single pupil to feel like they belong in that environment, and it's the same for my running or anybody's running. If you find a training group, a club, you will see success. My name is Charlie Sanderson. Um I am originally from Scotland, um, but live in London. I'm a full-time teacher, uh, but also a 215 marathon runner. Um, so yeah, I um came to the sport a bit later than others. Um had a you know, I was fortunate when growing up playing a lot of sports. So yeah, everything rugby, um, yeah, swimming, tennis, all these sorts of sports. And then um, I really the first competitor sport that I really got into was swimming. Um, and I did that uh for yeah, so uh from the age of I would say 10 through to 18. I was swimming at a pretty high standard. Um, and then when you leave school and having done that for a long time, you you kind of want to have a bit more of a social scene with your sport and yeah, going to university, I ended up you know, falling in love with sort of cycling as well. Um, and you know, that sort of progressed into triathlon. So uh I was fortunate enough to do some races in the US um and yeah, the uh love triathlon. Um, and eventually I I moved to London and I thought, how how am I gonna keep up this triathlon training with a full-time job? So uh I thought, oh well, actually, I could start running to work, um, and that's gonna count for some of my um training. So yeah, started running to work, and um, yeah, I I really fell in love with running then. Also, it was sort of at the time where you know you moved to London, you you want to meet new people, and um at the time this was 2017. Okay. Um running wasn't as big as it is now, but there was still quite a strong community, and um, I ended up meeting a lot of people through my running. Um, so yeah, so yeah, that's that's how I sort of entered the sport. Um, and actually it's ring rung true um in terms of the reason I stay in the sport is probably because of the friendships I've made as well. Um and yeah, and the connections you meet. Like this, uh I'm sure this is for the case for many runners. It's like sometimes you're amazed that you know you probably would never come across some of the people that you meet through running if it wasn't for running, actually, for that matter. So um, yeah, so it's uh yeah, and that's just increased over the years. So yeah, I'm still in London though.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

I feel like there's there's so much that I want to talk about, Charlie, and there's so much to break down just in that in that first sort of passage there. Like obviously, we're gonna chat about the the fact you've basically got two full-time jobs, which is quite something to to balance. Um you don't run a 215 marathon without putting a hell of a lot of time into it, and obviously you are a full-time teacher as well. But before we get into that, let's kind of go back a little bit to I guess those those Scottish roots and then university and the whole swimming part of what you did, and then getting into triathlon. Um you were obviously like very sporty and competitive in that space, in that space growing up. Where did that come from? Was that a family thing? Like, has that always been something?

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Yeah, so I think yeah, it's definitely family. I've got uh I've got you know, my both my parents are are are sporty, um and um they did lots of different sports, but never uh never running. My dad uh loved swimming, and actually that goes beyond my grandpa loved swimming as well. Um and so yeah, we um yeah, that was sort of like a target, I guess. That an element of like, yeah, I want to beat my dad uh swimming. Um so I and and as a child it it it's quite like you know for swimming, it's great because you it's the more effort you put in, the more patches you you do, the better you get. Like you can actually see, you can see the tangible like benefits and and um and the more work you put in, the the better you get, and the fast the times come down. Um and also just the fact I think you know swimming, swimming taught me a lot about just like you know, sort of I want to don't want to say like um diligence because I enjoyed it, but the fact of the matter, like to get good pool time, you were you were swimming pretty early. So when I was 13, I was getting you know doing swim practice at 6 a.m. or earlier. Um and that sort of you get it become then becomes just a habit. Um and I listened to your um well your uh conversation with Hannah and just the the the social side of um of it because I was you know at the age of 13 all the way to 18, some of my best friends were in my swim team, and um and so you know waking up at six, like well getting there for six, you didn't really bat an eyelid because you're just gonna hang out with some of your friends. Um so uh yeah, that was the first sport that I got really, really competitive about. I've also got two younger brothers who are also really, really quite sporty. And um uh I actually remember we had like you know, school cross-country, and um I'm the oldest, and you know, the middle brothers uh it was like really really good at cross-country uh at school, and uh yeah, he would always like he would beat me, hands down. Um so yeah, and now I think yeah, now we're all a bit older. We all do run to some level. Um, but um yeah, I've taken it a bit bit further than they have, I have to say.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Yeah, I think the PBs kind of speak for themselves there, buddy. Um it's quite funny, you know. You said, you know, you know, the swimming, the swimming part of it, your granddad, your dad. Me and my partner were having this conversation yesterday. We were out on a just a little jog after work, you know, just like a shake off the cobwebs of the day. And we were chatting about like um being competitive with your parents. And I said, like, I feel like that's something that I always had with my dad. Like, he played a lot of squash growing up, and I remember when I was growing up, and I remember him being like, Oh, come to the court, come to the court, and we we'd always play, and he'd always beat me. And there was a there was then a time where we stopped playing, and actually reflecting back now, I think we stopped playing when he probably realized that I was gonna start beating him, which I actually I actually rate, to be honest. I actually quite like that. I think that's quite funny.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

He probably he probably told you like you'll beat me when you beat me. Uh yeah, I mean, there's literally no mercy, and to be fair, I wouldn't you probably looking back, you wouldn't want it any other way. Like you want to beat them straight up.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

So we actually ran past a little kid when we were out running and he was with his dad, and I said, he was just like, Yeah, you know, when a kid's like evidently wants a race. So we ran past him and he then sprinted off and I said, Do you want to race, buddy? And he said, Um, No, I don't want to race, I don't want to race. And then um Yevicky, my partner said, You're gonna be a great dad, aren't you? And I was like, Yeah, yeah, but I'm never gonna let him win. Because my dad definitely never, never did for me. So it's quite, it's quite cool to like see that journey from sort of swimming to then cycling to triathlon, but probably not the probably not the traditional way rounds, like what you've done, gone swimming, cycling, triathlon, then running. Like normally it would be like running coming first. So it's kind of unique, I think, stepping backwards a little bit in terms of like to that discipline that normally was almost lead, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Yeah, I think um uh you see more more swimmers now, like you know, of my my my generation, like you know, competitive swimmers getting into running or or or people from other sports getting into running later in life, whether that be rugby or yeah, team any team sport. I think with swimming, it's just um uh the structure starts at quite a young age, um, and um the um just the the level of competition um in the UK, like the swimming when I was growing up was just it was so so strong. Um I like yeah, I would go to regional meets and be racing the lights of like Duncan Scott, and then like you go and see him like winning the Olympics and load like it so I think you know when you're in that and and that's something that I learned from quite a young age is that yeah, the environment is so important. And so the the swim team that I was part of, they were really like that I was nowhere near the best, and like being surrounded by people that are you know like work hard and are seriously talented, you have an appreciation of okay, well, I'm never gonna be like the best in the group, but this is gonna lift my level anyway. And and that's yeah, you yeah, to learn that at that such a young age is is I think a really valuable lesson um in in resilience, pretty much, and and also you know surrounding yourself with people who are you know driven and like you know wanting to work as hard as you are, um and also are friends because that will keep you in the sport. I think yeah, you see a lot of maybe the top people when I was younger like drop out of swimming, or you see, um I admittedly I did do cross country when I was um sort of 16 to 18, and I would always come in the Scottish schools, like I was always come in the you know the the maybe in like 30 to 40 if um and the guy like the guys at the right of the top, like you look back at some of the the list, the results, and the guys at the ri real top were like Neil Gourley and um Josh Kerr, and who are obviously like you know world-class athletes, and then you have quite a group of people that probably fell out of love with the sport, and then you've got some people that have like stuck with it. Um, and I think yeah, it speaks to the the importance of the environment and yeah, swimming environments are um this sort of foster that love. Um, so it that's carried through to my running, at least, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

I think as well, like you mentioned the the kind of structure of it all earlier on, and looking at what you do now, like if anybody follows you on your social platforms, they'll see that a lot of the days are very structured and they kind of have to be structured when you're putting so much into them. Um even to the point where, you know, when you are on your half terms or your Easters or your summer holidays, that structure kind of I would imagine is a little bit more difficult to implement because the days aren't as full. Um is that something you like? Like, do you thrive under structure, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Yeah, I think um I yeah, I do it's taking time to adapt to that structure. I think yeah, you can um yeah, structures structures uh great, but you do have to somewhat be um adaptable and flexible. Um and and yeah, it's taking time for me to understand that because you I think you get to a certain point in running where you know you you you start running, you see immediate results, and you get better and better, and then you think, oh, I've got to just like increase everything. So increase the mileage, increase the intensity, and and then you sort of like you get to a plateau or you get injured, and that's because of like you just constantly doing the same thing, and and and you've gotta be you you have to almost be appreciative, okay. Well, actually, this week might look a bit different because I'm working really like I'm doing uh uh longer hours at work or I haven't got enough sleep, and and being conscious of that and adapting the sessions um or your training to suit that is really important. Um, I think from the outside, like if you look at someone's Strava profile and like you can probably eat it might look really structured, it might look like the exact same each week, but um there there will be some nuances and I I think yeah, now I understand like because I've been doing this for a number of years, my my body and the sort of I I I I'm I'm in tune with it and I know you know when when I shouldn't be pushing or when I should be pushing. And actually, yeah, during term term time, it's really you know the structure is really good because admittedly my social life goes a bit down. My social life is still running though. Yeah, and like I've I'm training um with the group Cottage on a Tuesday, um, seeing them on a Thursday and seeing them on a Saturday. And so you get your social interactions through there, and then you've got your work. I think you know, during the holidays, yes, I have a bit more flexibility in terms of I'll do a session early in the day because I can, and that allows me to recover late in the day, but I wouldn't say I'm training any harder when I'm not um when I'm not working.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Um so yeah. I think as well it's like people that are steadfast with their I guess with their routine and then are rigid in every part of it. So like yes, you know you've got the timings, but you still have to be malleable with what you do in that time, I guess. And it's like relating that. I mean, my partner's a teacher, so I feel like I can can relate to it a little bit. And she, I think she's I think you're a year three teacher as well, right? Yeah, correct. Yeah, so she's so she's a year three teacher. So like there, there are some there are some days, I'm sure, that you go into the class and it's complete chaos, and you're like, I've got a plan, but I've got to throw it out the window. And I imagine it's the same when it comes to well, it is the same when it comes to running, right? You wake up and you've got a nickel and you're like, well, I'm not gonna get away with this session tonight, but I might get away with an easy run. And I think it's I guess it's that that's mal that malleability in every facet, which kind of actually moves you forward, I think, more than if you are rigid with it, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Yeah, no, uh, I defin definitely. That's exactly. I mean, the the similarities between the teaching and the training uh it it's like it's yeah, it's so useful to sort of understand that. And I think yeah, it's great having a plan and having the direction in terms of like yeah, for in its teaching, like you have your plan for the the term, your long-term plan, you've got your medium-term plan, and then you've got like your lesson plans, and uh those are great, and being like organized in that sense is is fantastic, but I think yeah, the spontaneity and being able to adapt um to sort of what your class needs or what they find interesting, ideally, is so important because then you get their buy-in and you get the best you get the best results um from them. And it's the same with the running. Like um uh um I'm yeah coached, well, I get a lot of guidance from um uh a guy called Mark Lloyd, who heads up Cottage, and uh he's always um he's mentioned before, like if you've got if if if an athlete comes up to him and says, Oh, I want to do, I don't know, uh 10 times 200, and you've and this athlete has a marathon in two weeks, he's not gonna say, Well, that's a bit stupid, like what why are you doing that? Like, you don't need to be ripping two hundreds because you've got a marathon. But if the athlete wants to do that and they feel like they're gonna get a positive um feeling out of it, then just let them go and do it, like let them do that. Um, and it's the same, it's the same in it, like well, somewhat in the education part, like if you have that athlete's buy-in and they're gonna enjoy it, it's probably the right stimulus.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Has it ever felt like, and I imagine when you're in a big block, it does get like on top of you occasionally, but has it ever felt too much? Like, is it ever like I'm gonna have to pick here?

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Yeah, yeah, I think it the th there's been a like a number a number of Thursdays where um I just appreciate that uh I I can't um uh well I I I could, but I think it would just it wouldn't help uh it wouldn't help my running and it wouldn't help my teaching. And so um it's probably the end of a Thursday where I'll try and run home and I'm just like, do you know what I've had such such a big day? I what I what my body needs and what I need is just like to get home and like just rest. Um and and and being it goes back to the point that we were talking about just being adaptable and and understanding your like how how you feel at that given time is really important, and also the yeah, thinking about sort of the bigger picture of like when okay, I really want to be in good form for Saturday, because Saturdays tend to be the most important sessions for me. Um, and I'm sure for any sort of uh uh anyone training for a marathon that has a full-time job, Saturday ends up being such an important day because because you're not working and you can go a bit harder and you can do your session um you know when it suits you. And so optimizing your schedule towards making sure that you um hit that session to the best of your ability is really important. So if that means sort of not running home on a Thursday for me, then that's a decision I'll make. And yeah, knowing that it should put me in good stead for Saturday.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

One thing that I I love and I know you've talked about before is kind of kids as a leveler as well. Like I I don't know if I was watching an interview or I'd read something that that you had you had said about your Valencia performance, which was obviously that's your PB, right? 215 and some change. And I think was it 74th you finished? Am I right in saying something like that around that number?

SPEAKER_01 20:46

I think it might even be 80. I think it might be even 80 second. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

But but going in, going in, like obviously after running this massive PB, unbelievable time in, you know, one of on one of the fastest courses in the world, and the kids asking, Did you win or come second? Like that that brings you back down to earth a bit, I'd imagine.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Yeah, actually, it happened today as well. I think uh some of the younger sort of reception boys are more like they're about to be in year one, so they're much more vocal. And uh, and actually one of them asked me today, uh, oh, did you win the race? And I was like, I haven't I haven't raced really raced since London. What race? And I'm like the marathon. I was like, no, no, I I didn't win the London marathon. I didn't I didn't run under two hours. Uh but it's sweet. It's sweet that they're interested and uh and yeah, it brings a lot it brings a lot of joy, uh enjoyment to it anyway.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Well you can see the thing is as as well, which I love about you when you talk about teaching and talk about that side of what you do, like there's such an obvious love for it, right? I think I think with with how busy your life is, um, you know. this this happens with a lot of people and I'm sure it happens with yourself as well from time to time. I'm sure that there there are those moments where you're like oh my god this is this is a lot like you're on the phone to friends or family like this is like I'm struggling there this is a lot however you do this because you love it on both parts don't you and I think that's quite that's quite cool to see that there's so much love and enjoyment for both sides of what you do.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Yeah I think I think yeah I mean like for full transparency there's days where you're just like yeah this this is like uh I'm like what am I doing? Like this is like so this is uh yeah a lot and I think yeah the there's a lot uh in it I'm sure you your partner's aware at the moment but there's a lot of like negativity around education and and and and just like the dead the vocation that it is and it's it's the it like it is hard work but I do feel like the more you the more you give like the the more you get out of it and I I I I haven't been teaching like you know for my whole career. I had a different career beforehand um even though I've always been really interested in sports coaching um and and and and yeah interested in in in working with people I think yeah I'm always weirdly I'm I'm quite introverted but I always do enjoy talking to people and teaching sort of allows allows for that you work with people and you get to work with young people who are uh especially at that age just um they're so eager to learn and um and yeah when you're doing a whole load of marking for for like late in like late into the evenings um that bits yeah you're like oh this this is a bit tedious but like as soon as they step into the classroom and or they come into the classroom and say good morning uh with a smile on their face like that's it it just it immediately turns your day around almost um I think the one thing I didn't appreciate was was quite how hard of a vocation it is like I think sometimes people and I don't think you probably realize that until you're close to somebody that's doing it or you are somebody that's doing it.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

But it it is not a it's not an easy thing to do and you're dealing with 30 32 35 kids' emotions on a day-to-day basis you're dealing with 70 parents you're dealing with like there's a lot that goes into this and a lot of relationships that you have to manage.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Yeah and and actually this like you know to the point about like my sort of relationship or my the environment that I'm in with cottage it's really the same and I've I've mentioned this before but it's it's really the same with the teaching environment that I I set and like you know you want every single pupil to feel like they belong in that environment and you want them to and if they feel that belonging and that um like they can come into their classroom and be themselves like that's that that gets the best out of them and it's the same for my running or anybody's running like if you find a training group a club um just yeah a group of mates you you you will see success whatever shape or form that is um and so yeah it's it's just managing and those relationships and understanding like okay what what do these pupils like you know what makes them take what's makes them belong and have a good time and enjoy their learning um and and and yeah and so yeah I think it's uh belonging is just yeah so important to me.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

What was what was the reason that you decided to you know you mentioned a previous career you decided to then go into teaching what was what was that switch?

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Yeah so um I I worked in sort of advertising before beforehand and um I I loved it I made lots of you know friends there that I still have friends at the um um in my old with my old employer there but I think you know uh I I thought you know what I'm at a stage in my life where if I want to make the change I can make it um I don't uh I don't have any children of my own um I'm married I'm you know really supported by my wife and um I think you know she like I mentioned it and you know we thought about it and you know she thinks like I I I kind of by the time that I was making the decision I sort of understood myself and what my where my I would say strengths um lay um and that was teaching so I thought oh I'll give it a year and see how it goes and then I um I really enjoyed that year and I was fortunate that the school that I was at uh supported me through my teacher training um through a university but also working full time um so that year was like quite a lot on because you're doing a university degree you're doing your teacher training just another thing just another thing you're getting you're running so you yeah so you uh so yeah got through that year and then um and yeah I yeah I love it and yeah um but I think it it it took a bit of like well it did it it took courage just to make that move because it's obviously um yeah it's not the most well paid job in the world and it does take you need to be f like fully committed to it. And I think that's why you see like teacher retentions is is quite is quite low at the moment. And people leave the profession because um of a number of factors. But yeah I it's um yeah I think that's yeah what I try and bring to at the moment is my perspective is that yeah it's a new vocation. I'm like enjoying working with the pupils and um and yeah it's um yeah for me at the moment it's like the best job I I I I love it.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

When you obviously you made that change and and then the the running was obviously there already but then you're structuring it around what you're you're doing in in the in sort of the new space of of work and that part of your life. What um did you see a switch in your running then?

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Like was that a catalyst in things getting better or like how did what was that period like I was I was kind of thinking about that the the other day actually because I I s I had it I think I I switched uh career I switched jobs in sort of March time uh April it was April and I I finished on the Friday and then I started teaching like sort of inner school on the Monday and then that week was the week leading into London marathon and I had a bit of a breakthrough there where I did London marathon I ran under 220 I ran like 2192 uh first time breaking uh 220 and I was like oh this is good this is gonna be good and but I wouldn't say no I think because I after that it sort of it's it's gone up it's gone up and down since then um and I think it goes to the point of like getting used to that routine um and understand it I have um uh quite a few friends that are teachers and really talented runners uh like yeah um Jeff Jonathan SCLante Phillips who's done a lot of run through events um and Jacob Allen um and then there's another one uh Alex Milne um and so it yeah I I remember um yeah Jet mentioning like yeah it's it takes time to get used to that uh routine and and and being adaptable and uh I know uh Jacob Allen is the same it's like you know he's a sports teacher as well so he's like really outside the whole time on his feet and and what he's worked out what routine works for him um and the same with Alex Milne who just came forth at Comrades as well. So like like and his schedule is completely different to any of ours um but there's obviously something going on with teachers and running quickly at the moment um but uh but no I do think I do think like you know you've got to work out what works for you and um and then it it will change over time. But uh yeah it it's it um it does it it wasn't an immediate change is the the long answer well the short answer to your question.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

It's uh I mean the four of you it's a little bit like a boy band there isn't it like you could put the four of you together.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Yeah to be fair I think it should be uh yeah there was a it was a couple of years ago I think we all did London and so it's like who's gonna be the fast fastest teacher almost uh but uh yeah uh there uh I did race actually in Valencia this year. I just thought isn't there a isn't there a photo of you and Jepp on pretty much on the behind you like 10 meters ahead of 10 meters ahead of him it was uh uh and that actually for full disclosure for that photo in that context he he was on the carpet sort of being a bit unwell uh and I went past him and I just yelled at him come on and he's got some kick uh and so he uh he completely outkicked me uh after being a bit unwell but um but yeah no um yeah there's a bit of a camaraderie there. When was when was the first the first marathon Charlie like when did you decide to go for that that 26.2 for the first time yeah so I um I did do a trail marathon um which I think my uncles um were big runners and they said oh do you want to come and do this and uh it was a pretty horrific experience to be honest um but then I would say the first road marathon was Edinburgh uh in I think that was in 2018 and I ran 250 there um and had a really like I I I really enjoyed it it was tough but yeah thought oh this this is yeah something I could do and then after moving to London I oh I did Manchester and um I ran around 240 around that time in the same year and then when I after I moved to London I I I got a place in New York and decided okay I'm I'm actually gonna like really focus on my training and yeah read around the sport and that's something that's come from swimming of like really understanding what I'm doing. I've had a fascination with that and so yeah was self-coached and then went to New York and you know my parents were there and they're not at this point they weren't runners. My dad is subsequently like really got into it um and in like his late 50s early 60s 60 now. So um and I said oh yeah we're gonna go for like sub sub 230 and they were thinking like whoa that's pretty yeah pretty punch punchy for your first major and yeah I ended up doing it. I mean it was it was hard but I I I sort of just about got it.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

I got 229 um and from there I uh yeah I it was sort of it's gone gradually it's not always been linear like I've had years where I I ran 219 and then I got injured and didn't really make um the same progress in the marathon and then uh I yeah I've been fortunate to represent Scotland over the half marathon which was amazing um and now I'm yeah I I I'd say yeah last year the tail end it sort of things started to click um and yeah um so it's it's it's been a long journey like you know it's been over sort of nine years of like you know just consistent training so it's gotta be weird though like looking back at that time now because it is kind of like I know I know it's up and down and it's you know no progress is kind of linear it's all like all about the shop and there'd have been hard moments and again kind of coming back to something you said right at the start of the conversation when you look at somebody's strawberry it might look really structured but actually you don't know what they're feeling like and you don't know what their weeks like you're just literally seeing a number that's kind of the same as this isn't it it's like you don't know what you're feeling like at any part of this journey we're just going it has gone from 250 to 240 to 230 to 220 to 215 but looking at it and zooming out and actually looking at those numbers it's kind of mad that you're now at that 215 mark.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

Does that when you when you think about that and when you look back at that nine years like did you ever think you would get to something like 215 or was that was that even a thought no it probably it probably was I think yeah at the time like with cottage there were there was there were a few guys that were like running um when I joined cottage like sort of at that level did I think it would get I think maybe at the start I thought oh maybe I would get there one day and then it's sort of a sort of lost sight of that especially when you're going maybe you're not seeing that linear trajectory anymore and you sort of lose sight of that and I think what was a big thing you know psychologically was just like not trying to chase the time almost um and I know it's a bit of a cliche and like yeah it's is running is so objective um like you either hit the time or you don't um and that's why I think you know children really well the youth of ethics is really popular because like it's like the point that the more effort you put in the better you get this the quicker the times. But I I think you know when I stopped thinking okay I've got to chase sub 220 or um last year I just thought do you know what I'm just gonna get as fit as possible and that will like the outcome will be the time it is and I know it's easy to say that but you really do have to believe like believe it. And when you're in like an environment and I'm not sure like the the guys that I was training with the sort of Andy Fife Max Malawi George George like especially for Valencia you kind of lost track of what kind of um shape you're in um mainly because we weren't racing that much um but so we didn't really race at all and yeah and we were doing quite big sessions um and training and we'd like I finished the session and I was like oh I was like way off like Max or Andy and and and then it comes to race day and they go like Matt you know they go and run 212, 213, um you know guys running 214 you then realise okay that's that's fair enough why why I was kind of being uh dropped on that session. But um I think that's sort of you know one of the learnings that I've taken over the last I would say two years is like trying to not just chase the time but just really get put yourself in the best possible shape as possible uh a best position as possible to have a go and go with it and then the outcome will be the time. So um and that was the same actually with London like um London this year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

I think as well like going back again to to you saying about those early years in the in the pool when you were training with people that you know it's cliche to say isn't it but people say always train with the people people that are better than you because you're always going to kind of be chasing them but it's I guess it's cliche because it's true right like that is that is kind of the case. And I think as well um I've had a conversation on I can't remember who it was that was just like fitness is fitness. Like just get just get fit like it doesn't whatever fitness means to you and whatever your fit is just get fit. I mean it's gonna change if you get fit you're gonna want to get fitter but like if you can do that you're gonna get closer to your goal rather than being like I'm going to do this because that's that's not psychologically nice either is it to be like because then you're like oh I'm failure. If I don't hit it oh it's terrible yeah it's weird.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Yeah and yeah it does I mean it takes practice I mean yeah an example in the short term of that is like London this year and where I thought oh do you know what I I could really have a crack at like running a really quick time here PB totally and it just didn't go it didn't go to plan like I felt from like you know 23k to um to 25 it was really tough and I sort of yeah had a word with myself like yeah this is an amazing opportunity so many people would be like love this opportunity and yeah the least I can do is like you just enjoy the this like the rest of the race and and yeah didn't look at my watch whatsoever and and then I was yeah I think I had I had a lot of people out there supporting which was just yeah amazing and I think yeah was obviously more than I've ever had before mainly because of you know this things of the um stuff on Instagram that I've been doing but it was just oh it was so much fun and I uh I ended up running I got to pretty much Big Ben and I saw my family and uh and and then I could I look down finally at my watch and I was like oh I could actually like run a pretty quick time here and like yeah ran 216 which I'm extremely proud of it of um I did expect to go a bit faster but I think the main thing is that I just loved that experience and that's where I am currently with the sport um in terms of I've achieved pretty much more than I ever thought I would achieve and so now a big thing for me is just making those like experiences and memories as as much as I can and um and that's gonna probably show itself in like some of the races that I want to do moving forward. And yeah and so yeah it's now probably less about maybe chasing times yes that's important and I'd love to go under 215 um but also making those memories and having those opportunities is going to be like really important for me in the future years.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

And for anybody that is uh like wanting to see how much you did enjoy London in the end I know there's a like like there's quite a few photos on your Instagram where yeah it doesn't look like you've suffered for the point before those photos like you look like you're having a hell of a time and like I said hit that 216 mark as well and I think though that's kind of it goes back to to kind of what we've said throughout this conversation a little bit which is that sort of enjoyment piece that if you're loving it, if you're with people that you want to be with if you're in a good group if you're having the experiences you want to have in work but in running as well um you're more likely to do well in the sport and the pursuit of that too. I think I think to wrap up Charlie I think it'd be it'd be remiss for me to ask because people you know people are probably listening to this and thinking oh my God he is busy like he is squeezing a lot into his life right now and I think that's one of the things you know time is one of the things that people use as not necessarily an excuse but it's something that is is difficult to manage sometimes and you seem to be very good at that. So if someone is thinking like I would love to do this whether it be a 5k a 10k a half marathon a marathon their first ultra like but they're thinking I don't know how to do it like I don't know how I'm gonna structure my life like what would you say to them?

SPEAKER_01 43:08

They can do it around a busy schedule can't they yeah yeah I think yeah I would say like yeah be kind to yourself and I think you know I want like from a selfish point of view I want to look back um when I'm you know much older and think like I really gave that my all um whether that be yeah running swimming any sort of like interest that you have I think you want to be able to look back and think oh I was proud of of of the effort that I put in there um and you you you'll remember that over some of the times that you ran um and I think if you have that mentality you will you you're you you can make anything happen really um and yeah I I think that's that's probably the important message here is like yeah don't beat yourself up don't say oh I've got to go out now I've got to do this like think about yeah what be like yeah be sort of thinking about in the future and what what you want to look back on and think yeah I gave that a shot I really enjoyed it um that's that's the sort of the headspace that I'm in when I'm when I'm going through a bit of like tough times or or maybe I'm like yeah I could take it a bit easier now um but yeah every Thursday every Thursday Charlie every Thursday it's it's horrific that experience honestly Thursdays are are yeah brutal