#169 - Why Fitness Has Always Been My Anchor | Naomi Heffernan

Nike Trainer, coach, presenter and HYROX athlete Naomi Heffernan joins Ben Sheppard on this week's episode of The RunThrough Podcast for a brilliant conversation about building a career you're passionate about, embracing change and finding confidence in yourself.

Growing up with elite athlete parents, fitness has always been part of Naomi's life, but her journey into the industry wasn't a straightforward one. From pursuing a career in acting to becoming one of Nike's leading trainers, she shares how following what brought her joy completely changed the direction of her life.

Ben and Naomi also chat about the incredible rise of HYROX, why community has become such a huge part of the fitness world, competing at the HYROX World Championships and why she's now swapping sled pushes for swim sessions as she prepares for her next challenge, an Ironman 70.3.

The conversation also goes far beyond training, touching on self-worth, knowing when it's time to move on, making difficult decisions and why trusting your instincts can often lead to the biggest opportunities.

Naomi Heffernan - https://www.instagram.com/naomi_heff/

Ben Sheppard - https://www.instagram.com/bensheppard93/

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome back to the Run Through Podcast. It is Ben Shepard here. And today I am joined by Nike trainer, coach, presenter, and high rocks athlete, Naomi Heffernan. Growing up with elite athletes as parents, fitness has always been a massive part of Naomi's life. But a journey into the industry has been anything but conventional. From chasing a career in acting to becoming one of Nike's leading trainers, we talk about following your passions, embracing change, and why sometimes the biggest opportunities can come from taking a completely different path. We also get into the incredible rise of HyROX. Why community is such a massive part of the fitness world. Naomi's experience is competing at the High Rocks World Championships and why she's now turning her attention from sled pushes to swim sessions and an Iron Man 70.3. But this episode goes far beyond racing as well. We have a really honest conversation about self-worth, confidence, knowing when it's time to walk away from something that no longer serves you, and why trusting your instincts can completely change the direction of your life. I think it's brilliant this chat. I think you will too. Naomi Heffernan is on the Run Through podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

You have to be the number one person because otherwise you won't show up for your partner. You won't be able to show up for your kid. You're then not able to be the best version for those other people if you don't put yourself first. Whatever decision you make is never the wrong one. So even if that decision that you make and you go for it, you regret, make another decision, which will then lead you to somewhere else. When life can sometimes get out of control, fitness is the thing that you can control. And yeah, fitness has definitely been an anchor for me. My name's Naomi, aka Naomi Hef. Um, my full name's Hefanin. Um, I'm a Nike trainer, I'm a PT, I'm a coach, I'm a podcast presenter, I'm all of these different things. I'm I was also an actor back in the day. I'm an athlete. Um I'm like a slash, slash, slash, slash, or some people like to call it a patchwork um career. Lots of different things. And we were just saying that just now, weren't we? That like it's so nice to have so many different things that you do. Um, and I don't think one of those things defines me. However, I do, I am very much rooted in fitness and and wellness. Um that's that is like one of my core values that I I just could not live without. Yeah, so that's me.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Yeah, like that. I say as a nutshell, it's like quite a yeah, quite a quite a big nut, I guess, Naomi, if that's the right way of putting it. Like there's there's like there's a lot in there. But I think obviously I want to focus on the the sort of fitness and athletic side of of you to start with, and then we'll get into a lot of other bits and bobs as well down the line. But take me all the way back, take me back to young Naomi as a kid. Like, where did this part of you first come in?

SPEAKER_00 3:02

So I've always been into fitness um ever since I was a little a a kid, like a a baby from my parents. They were both athletes. My dad was an Olympic cyclist, my mum is a world world championship duathlete, and it was kind of forced upon us all as kids. Um, I used to swim six times a week. That was my um background when I was growing up into up to the age of about 18. Um, and then with that, I did try athlon through the background of cycling and running that my parents had. So I feel very privileged, very fortunate to have had that kind of even though at the time I was hating it, as you can imagine, being forced to go swimming six times a week with really long hair and just wanting to go out with your mates and being like, oh, my hair's wet and I smell like chlorine, and I just I just want to not get up at 6 a.m. to go swimming before school. But um I'm so glad that they did force us to do those um those activities because it's given me such an amazing base for adult life. Um, and even though once I hit 18, I said no, not doing swimming, not doing that ever again. I then went into dance. Well, I was I always was into dancing because I wanted to be an actor. I kind of moved away from training into dancing and performing and went to drama school. So still kept a base level of fitness through dance, but it wasn't something that I wanted to do. Um, so but training wasn't anything that I did in order to compete competitively in any kind of sport umce I hit adult life. Um, and then it was actually when I graduated from drama school, was a jobbing actor, um, and realized that I couldn't work full-time as an actor. I needed to get other gigs. So I was doing agency work, I was um doing bar work to kind of fund myself to be able to go to auditions and then um live when I wasn't on an acting job. And then, you know, an acting job would come in, I'd drop everything, I'd be away for six months on tour, and then I'd come back and I'd have to pick up the bar job again. Um, but I started spinning. That was kind of the thing that I enjoyed doing to keep me fit if I wasn't dancing. Um, because I loved the dancing to the beat on the music. And obviously I had that cycling background as well. So I really enjoyed it. And the um instructor who actually owned the studio, it was called it's was called Boom Cycle at the time, said, Um, why don't you come and audition to be an instructor with us? Um, and I did and got through, they trained me up, and that was then my job in between acting jobs because I could just do a couple of classes, and that would be the kind of same pay as working all day in a bar. Um, and then that would allow me time to go off and do auditions. So um that's kind of my in into doing fitness as a career, um, but didn't think that that would be the start of a career in fitness at all. I thought I'm just gonna be an actor. Um, and then just eventually the acting job started slowing down. Um, I actually did one final job that I really didn't like. It was a six-month tour around the UK and the production company I didn't, I didn't get on with it. Was there was some there was some sexism, there was a bit of uh, there was like a bit of a creepy guy on set. Like I won't, I won't go into too much detail, but um when I complained about it, it kind of just got brushed under the carpet and no one really took anything seriously. Um I I tried to get off the job and um they were like, you're gonna have to pay for someone to recast and all of this. So I ended up just doing it all the way through to the end. And I then said to my agent, I've actually had enough. It doesn't bring me joy anymore. Um, and that was kind of then I think the the thing that threw me into just doing spinning full-time. And um, I went into teaching spinning, and then off the back of that, I decided I'm gonna um get a job at Barry's, went and got a job at Barry's boot camp, um, trained up as a personal trainer, and that was it. I was I was fully into being a fitness instructor as a career. Um, but then I always had in the back of my mind, maybe I'll go back to acting. And I've still got my agent all these years later, and I still I do a few commercials, and but it's not really, I wouldn't say to people I'm an actor anymore at all. It's been maybe like 10 years since that last acting job. So, yeah, so then from Barry's, then got signed by Nike um as a trainer, and I've been with Nike for six and a half years now. Yeah, left Barry's last year because I thought it's time for something new. I work at a studio called Pace Club, uh, which is Hyrux Performance Center kind of vibe with um classes. And yeah, that's that's my career again in a big nutshell.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

In a big nutshell. It's funny, isn't it? Because I think sometimes it's really nice to go back to back to the start and work your way through it like that, almost like a almost like a life CV, isn't it? Because then I think you see those patterns and you're like, okay, if I didn't do this, then this wouldn't have happened. And if I didn't do that, then this wouldn't have happened. And then if this situation wasn't a thing, then I wouldn't have done this. And like it almost like interlinks like a jigsaw puzzle when you speak about it like that and it all kind of fits together. And the acting piece is super interesting because I wanted to touch on that because I've read a few bits and bobs obviously before this conversation, and it's like if that wasn't a thing and you didn't want to be an actress like back then, this would never kind of have happened, or it wouldn't have happened in the way that it has happened, because realistically it was like I'm doing that to earn money to do the other thing. And now the thing that you were doing to earn money is the thing. Um, like looking back at it uh and now and and looking at how you got in. Um was there like was there was there an instant love for for teaching people and helping people from a from a fitness perspective when you were doing those early spinning classes?

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. The thing I think, and you we touched on community before, it that was the thing that kept me going, the people. Um, I loved it. I made so many, so many friends. Um, yeah, they they brought me like I talked about joy, what brings what brings me joy, and that brought me so much joy, lighting people up and making a difference in people's lives. And yeah, I think that's the thing that keeps me in it. It's the people, it's the making a difference. Um, and actually, one thing that I didn't say is that recently I started a women's community where I train people online and we have meetups and I get them ready for races or competitions or just generally fit in life. Um, and that brings me so much joy giving back my passion to others to help people be the best versions of themselves. And it sounds so cliche, but like you can't beat it. It's so fulfilling knowing that I've made a difference in helping someone become a better person or find their confidence to maybe make decisions in their life that they're scared of making or make pivots in their life. Because I think um a lot of the decisions we make comes from confidence in ourselves to say actually we deserve better. And sometimes that starts with our bodies and and ourselves and our feeling of health and wellness, and um, yeah, so if I can help someone in that way, it's yeah, you can't beat it.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

It's difficult though, in those moments, isn't it? And I think this is kind of twofold. You understand what they're getting out of it because you have felt that as well. So like that's why it feels so fulfilling for you. But at the same time, like you've made hard decisions, you've let go of things, you've moved away from an industry if we're just talking about the acting thing that you had your heart set on for so long. So you understand that and how difficult that is as well. So it's kind of like those two things put together gives you that experience to be able to understand how people are feeling in that moment if they are moving away from something or they do need to have a little bit more confidence in themselves, which is probably why that that community is growing. Um because there is that connection and that and that understanding, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

Um I guess in terms of in terms of um growing up, if we just flash back there a little bit, because obviously the the parents piece is uh is pretty unbelievable, right? The fact that you were brought up seeing what you saw. Um what was that like as a kid? And what is that like reflecting back on now? Because back then, right, it was normal, it was just something that was a thing. Now I bet you look back on it and think, yeah, that kind of wasn't normal.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Yeah, I mean, we used to spend every single weekend at a race in the rain. So as you can imagine, as a kid, it I was traumatized. I didn't want to go to another race in the rain and then be forced to run in the junior whatever they had going on. Um, but um, it was actually because my so my dad was a professional cyclist, but he he that was back in the 70s, so that was before I was born. Um, and then his cycling, I guess his professional cycling career came to an end before I was born. Um and it was actually my mum that I think inspired me the most with racing because she continued racing in world championships up until in her 50s. She was a world champion age group 50-year-old. Um, she's also and like I she even says now she's I think she's a bit bitter because back in the day, women weren't in the Olympics for cycling. And um, I I think she feels really hard done by that that wasn't an opportunity for her. Um, but she continued to race and continued to compete and and win medals um into her adult life. And um yeah, seeing that now and looking back, now thinking about it, they were pretty cool parents. They were actually pretty cool, but but really turning up to what wasn't cool was turning up to school um or like turn or coming to get collected from school with my dad in lycra um on his bike. That was not cool. Like imagine in the 90s, uh in the uh like being collected by your dad in a in some lycross. It's cool now, men in lycra, going, but not then. It was he was an anomaly. Um but yeah, you I guess like when you're young, your parents just embarrass you, don't they? Um, whatever they do. But yeah, they in my eyes, they certainly weren't the cool ones. But now I'm like, yeah, I'm so proud. I'm actually so proud of their achievements and their accolades.

unknown 15:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

It's so funny, like looking back at stories. I feel like Naomi, like I know, I know moving away from the acting and stuff like that, but there's a script in that, surely. Like your dad turning up on the school steps in a in a load of lycra. I feel like that's that's something that's uh yeah, you can literally see it, can't you?

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Like, that'd be fun. Oh my god. Yeah, yeah. So embarrassing. And like retro lycra, is that like retro?

SPEAKER_02 15:44

So just proper, proper tight gear. Um yeah. Let's talk about let's talk about you and your kind of like what you're doing in your uh ath in the athletic space right now yourself. Um, because I know when we first chatted about doing this, it was just before HyROX Worlds. And I think like you've kind of been there since the start of HyROX, right? You've seen this trend grow and move forward, and um, you've kind of been in the fitness space as trends come up and trends come down and new things come and new things go. HyROX seems to be one of those things that though that feels like it's sticking though, like it's it's not going anywhere, and it seems like it's growing even further. I think there was a couple of years where it was like, is this gonna be a thing that stays or is it gonna be a thing that drops off? Why why do you think as a as a sport and um as something that yeah seems to be growing and growing and growing, it does have such I don't know, I guess, why does it resonate with people so much?

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Well, uh, you know, people people racing in mass position patient mass participation racing, that's it's not a new thing, really, you know. People have been racing in marathons, they've been doing their 10Ks, they've been doing their park runs um for ye forever. Um, but now what we've seen a trend over the last 10 years in where um boutique fitness has been going. Um, you know, the start of Barry's boot camp, like we talked about spinning, then there's F-45, there's all of these um classes that people go to to get fit. And I think HyROX, and obviously CrossFit as well, huge. But HyROX has given people something where they can transfer all their training at their F-45, their Barries, whatever it may be, into something competitive from the growth of CrossFit, like the ski oak, the rowing machine, all of you know, all of these different movements that have been slowly introduced, I think, over the past decade into people's training. Um, and yet it gives people something to really focus their training on with an end goal that isn't just a triathlon or or their London marathon or something. Um, it's so accessible, it's really low skill. Um and they're on every blimming weekend at the moment. So you can probably get a ticket pretty easily for somewhere where it might not be in London, but you might hop over to Europe and and make a little holiday of it. I think it's growing because people are focusing more on their health and wellness than they ever have been right now. I think their social life is moving away from spending a Friday night at the pub and they're having Friday night at their gym instead. And they're meeting people and having those connections that way. And yeah, I think it it's just gonna keep growing. And I was never one of the ones that said, is this gonna drop off? I always knew this is this has got legs. Uh that I could see it and and it's here and it's here to stay. And I really don't think it's gonna start slowing down. There's more races coming in, you know, there's like gym race, you've got the hybrid games. Um, I just MC'd for uh a HIROX simulation, one of the biggest high rock simulations in the UK called Full Send in Wales. And that had 2,000 local people turn up to compete. And what I realized about that one, which is very different from a normal HyROX, is that there were I it didn't feel like there were many like really, really um elite, serious people. It was like it was like every man and his grandma was doing it. It was amazing. Um and it didn't matter that they were taking forever to do it, or like and oh, they also did a half sim as well, so you could enter the half sim, which made that even more accessible for those that were maybe a little bit slower or a little bit newer to it. Um yeah, I think yeah, it's exciting for people because it's different.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Yeah, it's yeah, and and and that's the thing, isn't it? It is different, and you mentioned like how people are now moving away from those Friday nights in the PUB, and it is much more about that health and fitness and and wellness lifestyle, and people seem to be dropping into that. And I think that connects back to something you said before about the community piece. It's like people are finding their community in different ways to maybe what they used to find their community. Um I don't I don't fully know why that is. Like, why do you think that people are moving away from Friday nights in the pub and moving more towards Saturday mornings in the gym? Like, why has that happened, do you think? And and what is yeah, why has there been this uptick in sort of health, fitness, wellness?

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Well I I guess I can speak from my experience. I I um I haven't been a drinker now for nearly for about five years. I stopped drinking alcohol. Um, but I used to love going out. Lou used to love going to the pub, used to love going out raving, loved a night out. It was especially as an actor, it was like after show parties, it was the way you built into it. Totally, yeah. Totally. Like even in in the rehearsal room, the way that you would connect with the um uh the director was going out for a fag break. On because I thought if you didn't go out for the fag break, you wouldn't feel chummy up with there with the with the director. And I think it's probably the same with a lot of a lot of businesses and people that work in offices and stuff. But I think people, and I don't you know what I don't know why people are so focused on their health and wellness right now, but I know that alcohol contributes. To my anxiety, and I knew that if I stopped drinking alcohol, I would be a better person up there for myself, and I wouldn't suffer as much with anxiety. And actually, I don't really anymore. It's really it's cured me. I feel I feel the best I've ever felt. Um, and yeah, I would never ever go back to being a social drinker again. Um, I just don't miss it at all. Um, because the the pros far out the yeah, the pros of not drinking far outweigh the pros of drinking for me.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Yeah. It's really interesting, isn't it? It's like, and I think everybody's on their own journey with that, with that sort of thing. But it's when you take those first initial steps and then you realise, okay, actually, like this thing that people say does help, actually does help. Like sometimes it's like um, you know, people will will you it's that thing of you have to decide yourself to quote unquote change. Um, because if somebody's just telling you that that's the way to do it, then you're probably not gonna do it. And if you do do it, it's it's not gonna stick. But when you actually feel the benefits of okay, whether it's slowing down drinking or giving up drinking or trying to get to bed earlier or going to that fitness class that you've been threatening to go to forever, and your mate tells you, Oh, it will actually genuinely help your head this if you do it, until you actually decide, you know, I want to do that myself, it's not it's not actually gonna be that thing that sticks, as I say. And I look, and Naomi, I know you've been through some incredibly tough moments in your life. I feel like I feel like speaking about this whole journey and everything you've you've done up to this point, fitness has always been there, hasn't it? Does it does it feel like that for you? Does it feel like that has always been the one thing that whatever you're going through in your life has been there to almost like support you, help get you through it?

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, fitness has been the constant for me. Um and it's also the it's also kind of the thing that is the controllable thing. Not all the time. Sometimes you might have an injury or something, but you know, when when life can sometimes get out of control, things happen that are that aren't within your control, fitness is the thing that you can control. And I can I know that, you know, if I go out for a run, I'll feel good. Um, if I maintain my strength, I'll feel confident. Um, so it's those things that I can kind of keep within my controllable realm um when everything else is so chaotic. And yeah, fitness has definitely been an anchor for me. And actually, Hyrox as well over the last five years has been like that constant um thing that I've been working towards and the community that I I see I know that I can turn up to a Hyrux race, and I'll I'll know people. Um, you know, where even if it's just knowing the MCs, because you know, some of them are my friends, or you know, other other people on the race course that I know are in my age group. Um just yeah, it's almost like this safe, it's a safe haven uh in a way. Um that's a really feel yeah, feel feeling almost, yeah, like at home. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

And and I think that's like like home is perceived as a different thing. It's not always a physical place, is it? It can be like uh a community or a feeling or even like um even like something like a high rocks weekend. Like that can that can feel at home because you understand it. Like I'm very much like that when I go to a go to a run-through race. I've been going to those races for eight years again as an MC, but also as a participant, and you you feel like you see the same people, you feel that community, you get that same buzz. And it's yeah, it's something that I it's difficult to explain, Naomi. You'll get it, but like, because you do ex exactly the same thing in in a different space, but um, yeah, it's a hard thing to explain that that that kind of feels like yeah, it feels like home, I guess. Um in terms of yeah, it's and it's and it's a special feeling, isn't it? And because you've been in it, you've been in that environment, feeling that energy and that vibe, but you've also been the one building that energy and vibe. I think you probably understand it better than better than anyone else. Which do you prefer? Do you prefer building it? Do you prefer being in it?

SPEAKER_00 26:48

I I actually couldn't say what I prefer. It feels like it's all just one. I it like for me, it is just a complete lifestyle. Like it's not just it's not a job, it's not just my community, it's it is it is my life. Like there is no the lines are all so blurred um for me. And uh yeah, that's maybe not the answer you wanted, but it is just everything. It's um yeah, uh like that, yeah. Let me let me see. If I could choose one or the other, well, it has to be who's doing it.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

I like Naomi. I love that answer because it's like it does show how interwoven it is in your life. Like it you saying it's not a job was something that I was gonna ask because like your whole kind of lifestyle and who you are and who you um, you know, who you will always be and who you will always continue to strive to be is kind of built through this like deep-rooted love for what you do. And there's the cliche phrase of do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life. But like, I guess that's probably how you feel, right? I bet you I bet you don't feel like you get up and work. You get up and get to do this thing you love. And I can see the smile on your face there when you're just thinking about it. Like it's it must feel it must feel pretty amazing when you reflect back and be like, I'm so happy I found this, this thing that I do and I love.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Yeah, but I think that's also just part of my my I only ever really follow my heart and what brings me joy. And it was the same with acting, and that's why I wanted to be an actor. But actually, before I'm you know, when you were like, oh, you know, if you didn't do acting, it wouldn't have led you to fitness. You're right. And I think I it was a toss-up between doing product design because I was really in, I was very creative and used to make things, and I did a lot of textiles and sewing um at school and did that for A levels. And I was I was genuinely thinking about going into product design and um decided to go the other way just because I I like loved the school plays, and yeah, that was more of a passion, I think. Um, and I enjoyed being on stage and everything like that. Probably the the intention seeker in the yeah, the childhood trauma. But um yeah, um anyway, yeah. What was the question? I went off on a tangent there.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

No, we were just we were just like we were just obviously talking about kind of like the love for what you do. And I I think that's the that's the interesting, you know, that's another interesting uh thought of of what you just said there about going with your heart. Because actually, I reckon if you had gone down that path of you know design and you had followed that, you'd probably be in the same place as you are now, loving the community and loving doing the thing what you were doing. Because it's like it's it feels like that's you, right? You're obviously you're you're the sort of person that throws themselves a hundred percent into whatever that's whatever that thing is and kind of builds their life around it. I guess that can be a good thing and a bad thing, though, sometimes. Like sometimes giving your whole self an 100% can be difficult when things don't work out, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Yeah, yeah. I think because I wear my heart on my sleeve and everything is quite emotive in my life. So I follow my emotions a lot, um, which can be a good thing, but also a bad thing. Um, so maybe so I sometimes make decisions based off emotions when actually that might have not been the right decision. But I wouldn't, I also wouldn't change it because I've made some amazing decisions based off my emotions, um, which has led me to really great things. Yeah, I'm I definitely don't stay in places if I if I'm feeling anything negatively for too long about it. Um I won't endure it, if you if you know what I mean. So I I yeah I can't I protect my I put I feel like it's a protection thing, but um yeah, yeah, if something's not quite aligning with my values, I'll quickly move on.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

That's a that's a really powerful, powerful thing to have though, because I mean I can I can like draw on personal experience, I guess. Like I I'm definitely somebody that's learning to do that better. Um but in the past maybe I have endured. Um and I think it's very difficult to accept that you have done that because then you kind of look back at those moments where you like you feel like you have stayed in a situation, whatever that be, like work, life, whatever it is, relationship, whatever you whatever you can relate that to. You then look back at that situation, you kind of beat yourself up a little bit, don't you? Because you're like, why did I do that for so long? Like it feels like a little bit of a a little bit of a waste, but at the same time, like sometimes I think you have to go through it once or twice or three times to then learn, actually, like again, we're we're with the cliches here today, Naomi. But like you do only live once. And if it's not serving you and if it's not something that you're enjoying, then it probably is the right thing to take a step away from it and move forward in a different direction. Um, and it's so hard when you're in it, isn't it? It's so hard to be like, I need to do that. So sometimes you only kind of realize when you're like looking back on that situation.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

Yeah, but I think the the more you take those steps each time with different situations, the easier it becomes. Um definitely not always, because some things are really hard to move on from or get out of, or because you know, it might be, you know, a financial um thing, or it might be um, you know, you might not want to hurt somebody, you know, all of these different things that contribute to you not making the best decision for yourself. But ultimately, I think really it all comes down to self-love and self-worth. And if you have enough self-love and self-worth and feeling that that I deserve more than this, then you will you'll make the right decision to to bring yourself out of that situation. Um, but yeah, I've I've gone on a big, big self-love journey over the last four, four, four or five years. Um, and I think the quitting alcohol was one of them, but also leaving relationships, that was a big, big one. And leaving jobs as well, you know, when you feel maybe you're not being valued enough or or treated the way that you feel you should be. So yeah, there's it's it's it is hard though when when you're in something, you think, oh just hold on. You never know, things might get better. But you know deep down, you really know in your soul, in your gut. I think I yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

You kind of know that I guess when you know, you know, right? And I think it's like it is weird that because we've we've mentioned self-worth before when we were talking about obviously the community and helping build that through, you know, through the community and through what you do uh for other people in terms of like a message and then being able to see people's self-worth kind of growing and their confidence growing. But it is weird because self-worth is like it it's sometimes perceived as like, or it has been, particularly as a bloke, I've felt this over the over the years. It's like, and I can't I can't relate it to from a female perspective because obviously I haven't been in it, but like I I feel like sometimes self-worth's like a negative thing. Like it's like, I'll just get on with it. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'll just get on with it. It's like you're fine, just crack on. And actually, I think that's so bad. I think actually it's like you need to think about valuing yourself above everything else because you are the number one in your life. Like you have to deal with that before you deal with everything else. And it's like making sure that it is like front and center of your mind that like let's actually let's actually try and be happy myself first before we try and sort everybody else out. I think that makes sense. I think I'm getting the right message there, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Yeah, yeah. Because you you we are our our own. Like, I am number one in my life. Like, my partner's not my number one. If I had kids, they won't be. You have to be the number one person because otherwise you won't show up for your partner. You won't be able to show up for your kids or that or your work. If you do not look after yourself, you have it's like that saying, you have to put on your own oxygen mask first before you help anybody else. Because if you're drowning, if you're suffering, you're you're gonna be sappy, you're gonna be the worst version of yourself, you're gonna be tired, you won't be able to pick up anyone's pieces if you're crumbling. I truly be people think, oh, you know, it's self-fish. Oh, you know, I put you, I put everything, other people above me, but then actually, really, you're then not able to be the best version for those other people if you don't put yourself first. Um obviously without hurting somebody, you don't want to be it. There's a difference between being selfish and hurting someone. Um, but I think you it yeah. So it's it's a balance. It's a balance because yeah, you you want to put yourself first without, yeah. But maybe sometimes you need to hurt some people along the way.

SPEAKER_02 36:54

Well, that I again, yeah, that's the thing, isn't it? And that word selfish is like another one of those words that is like, right, that's a negative word. And if if somebody chucks the word selfish at you, it's all the time like, ah, selfish, yeah, that's a bad thing. Actually, being selfish can be kind of quite powerful from time to time. So it's like where where does that word sit? It's a sliding scale, it's a seesaw, isn't it? It's not the same thing every time, it's situational, it's different.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:19

Yeah, moving forward with with uh with what you're doing right now, Naomi, because I do want to obviously touch on high rocks worlds and then move on to your 70.3 that you're training for right now. Um, I feel like I could talk to you for about 10 hours, to be honest. So I don't want to, I don't want to get lost. Um in terms of your in terms of the high rocks worlds then, like you're kind of fresh off the fresh off the bat of that and and going out there and experiencing that once again. Like what was like the what was that like this year as an experience? And yeah, reflecting back on that now, like a couple of weeks removed. How do you feel about the whole thing?

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Oh, it was amazing. It was one of the best ones that I've been to. I think I I they just did it so well this year. It was, you could clearly see a big step up from previous years. You know, they had like an athlete, proper athlete village and spectators village with activations going on. Um, the setting in the stadium was amazing. Um, the colours, everything was white, uh, which was really cool aesthetic. It was kind of like really light grey kind of thing. Um, it just felt really premium. And for the first night in the start tunnel, it everyone like everyone was there together. We were all looking around at each other, just thinking, we're so damn lucky, aren't we? To be here. And there was like everyone was like, good luck, good luck, you've got this. And I don't think I've I've experienced that before. Okay. This camaraderie between everyone. It was it was almost like that fit saying, like, we've already won just being there. Um and then, yeah, just being out on the track. It it was the first for for me, it was the first time doing mixed doubles at Worlds. Um, and actually, this season is my first season where I've really pushed mixed doubles, and it's a very different race to what I've been used to, which is female pairs. Um, where by I basically you don't touch the stations pretty much as a female in the mixed, you do like a third, um, and you just need to run those 1Ks fast um to keep up with the guy, which is ultimately going to be faster and stronger on the stations to take more of the ergs and the weights because it's lighter for them. Um, so yeah, it was a very different experience for me this year. Also doing it with my partner, um, which was great. Uh, it's a it's an amazing thing to be able to do together. Very, feel very lucky to have that. Um and yeah, just feel very, very privileged that I got to do it for a fifth year.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

It's yeah, I mean it's been it's been so cool seeing like the again the growth of it, but also I I almost treat I almost treat like those worlds weekends now as a bit like you know, I'm a big rugby fan. So if it's a big Six Nations weekend, for example, like I'm gonna be very excited about seeing all of the highlights. If I'm even if I'm not watching the games live, I'm gonna be like checking scores all the time. And I've got so many mates that um are are big into the high rock space, but also like I knew a lot of people that were competing out of worlds. And I felt this year was the first time I was like checking it like it was a big rugby day. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm like, oh let's see who won, or let's see if this record's gone, or let's and like it. I think that that shows it. I I guess that it's kind of uh maybe I'm not necessarily the mainstream to a T, but it's breaking into that sort of space now. Like this could be a thing that in the future is like a fully broadcastable thing to the masses, not just people that are in the space. Kind of like the CrossFit Games was doing, but then there was a bit of a step back in that for various reasons. Like I feel like this could be now like the next massive, massive thing.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Yeah, well, I you can see it with the amount of brands that are now jumping on board and all the marketing that they're doing. Like Nike really showed up this year. There was all this guerrilla marketing all throughout um around the stadium and in Stockholm, which is so cool. They had an athlete house as well, um, and activations going on, and then obviously, you know, all of the other brands were present. Um, so it feels like the big brands are getting on board with it, they're throwing loads of money into it, creating specific shoes for it as well. So it's becoming so mainstream. Um, but then also the Elite 15 athletes are really getting a following. There's some real personalities um in the space, and people want to know these people. They're becoming like mini celebrities now.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

Um, it's really cool. What's what's more important, Naomi, in high rocks? Like, and this is gonna be, I guess, probably different for different pairings and things like that, but like, is it a running sport or is it a like where would you put it? Because it's a running sport, do you reckon? It's a running, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

It's a running race. I've always said it. It's a running race, um, with a little bit of weights thrown in and the weight like it, but like, and if you can run, you're fine.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

It's certainly a running race, and you can see it with the elites. It's the elite athletes that have all have a running background. You've got elite marathon runners coming over one race in and they're elite 15. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

Like, yeah, it's mine, isn't it? I I mean we had we had Holly Archer on here, and we've done a couple of episodes with Holly, but Holly came on here. The it was like probably a month before she did her first high rocks, and I've got a clip of her saying actually, should probably put it out again. Her being like, I'm I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be a world champion. Like, I'm not coming into this sport to muck about. And I'm like, okay, she genuinely wasn't coming into this sport to muck about. She she's she's done what she's saying.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Yeah, yeah. And she's a runner, and that's it. Like, yeah, like um, yeah, a friend of mine actually quote uh uh said something recently online um that. If you trained up, if you got a couple of CrossFit athletes to spend two years just focusing on high rocks, they would likely make like their CrossFit, CrossFit Games athletes, they would likely make the Elite 15 or be very close to. Whereas if you got a couple of Elite 15 athletes to train for two years for CrossFit, they wouldn't be nowhere near getting anywhere to the CrossFit Games. Um, so I thought it was very, a very interesting take on the kind of athlete that a CrossFit Games athlete is and a and a Hyrux athlete. And that it's so different. And I think what we used to think was that HIRUCS is very CrossFitty, but actually it really is so far from it. It's it's a it's a running race. And when you look at the ones that are at the top, they're they're pretty much just elite runners.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

Yeah, it's it's so interesting. I love the debate about it as well because it's like because it is still so I mean it's still pretty new, isn't it, in terms of what it is and how it's growing, all that sort of stuff, which we've obviously already talked about. But like it's um yeah, it's so cool to see like the development of the sport and how it's moving away from. I think people see people see weights in a race format and they like instantly think CrossFit, whereas actually like like you say, it's totally outside of that space realistically. I know you're not seeing like barbells and stuff like that in in high rocks, really, but it's yeah, I think people just see. Do you know what a part of it is as well? I think it's just people with their tops off, Naomi. If I'm being honest, like people just think like that's that was CrossFit, then then one of the some of the lads rip their tops off and they're like, oh, this is the same thing, where it's yeah, definitely not.

SPEAKER_00 45:49

Yeah. Do you think that um a lot of runners are intimidated by high rocks?

SPEAKER_02 45:56

That maybe I mean, I can talk from a personal experience. Like I I I I personally have been, definitely. Like, I know I know a lot of friends of mine that have done high rocks. I worry about it because I know I'm gonna be bad. And it's not nice putting yourself into something that you know you're gonna be bad at, right? Um but I think there is I think there is that. I think it's like probably a lack of understanding of stuff like the weight that you need to be able to lift. The kind of that it is much more of like a muscular endurance thing rather than like a obviously there is a strength element to it, but it's not it's not like pure strength, is it? Um so I think people do get worried, but I do think that those barriers are beginning to get broken a little bit by seeing people from the running space that are doing so well, because now you know runners are thinking, well, if I can run a 315, 3 flat K, like and I can do that 10 times, then I'm only I only need to work the must work out the muscular endurance part, which in the vast majority of cases is actually something they're pretty good at anyway.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

Already good at anyway, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

Which is quite a yeah, I think it's just that change of perception, is it, isn't it? I think.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

Yeah, someone said recently that they spent the last year just training for triathlon, came back to Hyrox and PB'd. Didn't even do any Hyrox training, just trained triathlon and then improved. Because I suppose it's muscular endurance and it's compromised running and it's engine. Um obviously everyone's different and they've got their own strengths. So who knows?

SPEAKER_02 47:47

Who knows? That's what I was gonna say, Nayan. This is the 70.3 income, and maybe it's maybe it's BB territory for you. Like, talk to me about that. Why why was the decision made? You know what? I'm gonna throw myself back in the water here, jump back on a bike, like get back on a on a half marathon.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Yeah, and I'm actually so glad because after the world, even though I said it's the best thing ever, I don't want to look at a sled for months. I don't want to touch one, I don't want to do a burpery project. Although I went to a CrossFit class this morning and it was a high rock club. So I'm fine. I'm gonna just jump into a few classes here and there, but for now, for the summer, I'm just gonna focus on trathlon because I want to be outside. I miss running in nature. I don't want to be in on a sled track doing farmers' carries. I just want to be on my bike in the lake. I love nature. I think it's it like the more I feel connected to nature, I'm more I feel more connected to myself and just the world in general. So I I really miss just being outside. And I think summer is great for it as well. So yeah, so the reason I just yeah, I just want to do something different and get back to triathlon again after all these years. Um yeah, and also, so I've got a sister, she's younger than me, and she she tends to do things before me. So she started CrossFit before me, she did her first Hyrux before me in the same season, which by the way, we did, she did Excel, I did Olympia, we got exactly the same time. Oh wow by like 10 seconds, so then we joined together and did pairs together for a few years. Um, but yeah, so she is by me. She's done a uh a half iron man, um, lots of ultras. And I just thought, you know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna give that a go as well. See if I can beat her.

SPEAKER_02 49:40

Have you done a I love that? There you go. There's the little sibling thing at the end. See if I can beat her. Have you um has she done a full Iron Man yet, Naomi?

SPEAKER_00 49:49

I I don't think she's done a full, but she did she did the half recently and qualified for worlds.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

Oh, of course. Okay. But she's one of those families, aren't you? I can see it. You're one of those families.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

Well, well, the the the thing is about the world's triathlon qualification, you have to accept it on the podium and pay for it 800 quid. And she was like, you know what? You know what? I think I'm alright. She was like, if I decide um I'm gonna do if I want to do it, I'll try and qualify again. But right then she was like, nah. I was like, yeah, she didn't accept her qualification.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

You need to really mad though. It is mad that. Yeah, I mean, try let's be honest, triathlon not a cheap sport, is it? At all. No. Like it's it's uh it's a very expensive sport. It's mad.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

I know. I'm right uh right now I'm riding around on my bike that I've had for 11 years. It's a road, a road bike, a little giant that I bought um 11 years ago. Um, I bought it because I was doing a cycle sportive that I wanted to train for and have like a nice ish bike, but it was not, it's not even an expensive one. Um and I've still got that. So I'm looking for bike sponsors. Anyone out there that wants to loan me a decent bike for my triathlon season, just DM me. Because I'm on a dinosaur bike right now.

SPEAKER_02 51:20

Just just make it worse, Naomi. She's riding, she's riding a BMX. Help her out. Come on, somebody, help her out.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

Yeah, come on. It's a penny farthing, actually.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

We'll wrap up with this because I think like it's definitely worth mentioning before we before we uh yeah, before we finish up this chat. I'll put all the the links and stuff like that in the in the episode description. I know, I know we've said there's this kind of five episodes of your podcast like right now, having conversations with people in the uh in the fitness space. I've know you've I know you've had uh Laura on, right, who who is we know her from run through. She's she's run with us quite a few times. She's a legend, um, and you've had plenty of other mates of yours on as well. Like um what what was the reason that you decided to to start wanting to have conversations with people? And if people want to go and find the podcast, give it a shout out, tell people where they can find it.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

Um so yeah, the podcast is what the hef. Um great name. After my name. Uh thank you. Uh and I do as you can probably tell, I like to chin wag and I like to have a a chat. And it I think similar to you, it's having that those connections with people and having real conversations that um about the stuff that no one really maybe talks about. Um, and the tagline for the podcast is the stuff no one trains you for. So the theme is um things that happen in life where we maybe have to pivot or life throws you a curveball, and the things that were that are unexpected and how we overcome them, the adversity that that comes, but the lessons that we learn from them. And um, yeah, I'm trying to get people on that have got interesting stories or are going through something right now, or um have some wisdom that we can share uh with the audience. Um, so yeah, you can find me on Spotify and YouTube. What the hef?

SPEAKER_02 53:23

What the hef? Go and I'll put the links in the description of this. So go and yeah, subscribe, leave a five-star review and all that sort of stuff too. Um let's finish on this, Naomi. Like you mentioned the word pivot there. And you know, it's something we all have to do in our lives in a lot of different facets. Some definitely have to pivot harder than others, depending on the experiences and the things that you go through. But if somebody is listening to this right now and they are in one of those moments that, you know, they are thinking, I need to, I need to pivot, whether it's life, work, relationship, there are so many different facets we could mention there. What would you, as somebody that has been through a hell of a lot yourself, like, what would you say to them if they're in that moment? They know they need to do something, but they haven't quite done it yet.

SPEAKER_00 54:06

Um just know that there isn't there is never a wrong decision. Um, whatever decision you make is never the wrong one. It's just a decision which will then lead you to another, which will then lead you to another. And I think some things always work their way out, you know, but they they will always work them the way out. So even if that decision that you make and you go for it, you regret, make another decision, which will then lead you to somewhere else, which will then lead you to the next thing. There's plenty of things in life where I look back and I'm like, oh, why should I do that? Or you know, I spoke about how I lead with my emotions a lot, and and sometimes I do regret things for a moment, but then I remind myself, but that led me to meeting that person. And if I hadn't have done made that mistake, I wouldn't have then had that opportunity come about. So yeah, just know that there's never a wrong decision.