#171 - Sometimes Your Greatest Setback Is Your Greatest Opportunity I James Lattanzio

Running creator James Lattanzio joins Ben Sheppard on this week's episode of The RunThrough Podcast for an honest conversation about resilience, identity and how running became the thing that helped him rebuild his life.

After a serious hip injury brought his rugby career to an abrupt end, James opens up about navigating major surgery at just 18 years old, losing the sport that had defined him and finding a new purpose through running. What started as a way to clear his head has since evolved into a passion that's led to impressive performances on the track and a thriving career as one of the UK's most recognisable running content creators.

Ben and James also discuss the art of storytelling, building an authentic community online and why creating meaningful content is about far more than chasing views. They reflect on injury setbacks, the importance of movement for mental wellbeing and how learning to embrace change has shaped both James' career and outlook on life.

James Lattanzio - https://www.instagram.com/jlatt.fit/?hl=en

Ben Sheppard - https://www.instagram.com/bensheppard93/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Run Through Podcast. It is Bench Epitare, and today we are joined by running content creator Jamesio. James's story, amongst many other things, is one of resilient after every injury bought his rugby career to an unexpected end. He was forced to rethink everything that he thought his future would look like. What started as a way to clear his head became not only a passion that transformed his life, but one that led him to becoming one of the UK's most recognizable running content creators. We talk about navigating injury at a young age, finding a new identity through running, and why movement has become such an important tool in both physical and mental well-being. James also shared how he built a career by telling authentic stories online, the creative process behind his videos, and why connecting with people has always been the most important thing rather than chasing views. I was so thankful I got to spend this time with James, and he is a truly inspirational bloke. James Letanzio is on the Run Through podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

If I can make somebody else feel awesome or change somebody's day by telling an interesting story or talking about something relatable, if that impacts, you know, one or two people, I mean that's just incredible, right? I think if I constantly look back and, you know, held on to the feelings that I felt when I was going through it, I think it would be a lot harder to make progress. If I want to keep going and pursuit the goals that I, you know, have set out in my life, then I just kind of got to keep ticking over. Just try and do one little thing every single day that you know, even though you don't really want to do it, it's gonna make you feel a bit better. Over time, you'll just see yourself grow into a better headspace and you'll see that fog slowly start to lift. So my name is James Latanzio. Um I was born and raised in the UK. Um, my family lives in London now, but I spent a couple of years growing up living in the US um between the ages of four and seven. And then my family moved back over to the UK, went into British school, um, and then went on to uni, where I um yeah, went on to start athletics. And previous to that, I played rugby for 15 years. That was a big part of my life. Um and yeah, um started making social media content alongside once I started my running journey. And here we are, I guess. Um 25 living in London, and I can happy to say and lucky to call myself a full-time content creator and a runner. It's mad, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Like I like I like that your your Instagram bio is um, I like running and making videos about it. And actually, I thought when I was looking at looking at like framing this conversation in the in the first instance, I'm like, that's quite a nice way to frame it, right? Like we can split that into two things, like I like running, and then we can chat about the making videos about it as well down the line. But I know you've spoken about kind of athletic pedigree there slightly with athletics and rugby and then getting into running. I know there's a big story behind your running journey. Like, when did when did running first become a thing? I and I know that question's probably quite a big question, and we're probably gonna delve into various bits off the back of it. But yeah, when did it first come into your life?

SPEAKER_02 3:12

First came into my life, I'd say, at school during cross country, where I hated it. Um I think everybody in the British school system had to was forced to do cross country. Endure it. Yeah, honestly. Um, but I guess when it actually properly came into my life and started becoming one of my passions was in 2020. Um, and before that, I grew up playing rugby. That was a big part of my life. It was the sport I kind of wanted to pursue into um my late 20s. Um, I went to uni to play rugby. That was pretty much the goal. Uh running was not even in the picture at the time, and I was a bigger guy too. I was what, pushing 90 kilos. Okay. Um, and then in 2019, I was having some hip issues and I needed to essentially have reconstructive surgery on both of my hip joints. Um, and I didn't really know at the time what was going on because it's not a very visible injury. Um I was just a kid, you know, I I could play on it, it was painful. Um, but I was hit in a sevens tournament and I broke one of my uh I broke my right hip and continued to play on it for a year and a half. And then eventually I started having some some nerve damage that was shoot down into my lower limbs, and I was starting to struggle to walk. Um, and at that point I started to talk to my parents about it, and it was the red flag started getting waved. Um, and I was flown out to the US to have um the surgeries done, and they were two months apart. Um, where they essentially had to dislocate my uh my femur from the hip socket and re-graft and remove all the broken bone and repair all my labrum um on both sides, which was a big spanner in the works for rugby. Um so I yeah, essentially was told that I really shouldn't play anymore. Um, and I went off to uni. I made a full recovery. Um and I, you know, I tried to get back to where I was, but it just it wasn't really working out. Um and running kind of came into the picture the year after I told myself that I kind of kind of had to hang up the boots. Um, I started running mainly just to clear my head and um give myself a bit of an outlet, and it was really helpful. Um it was probably one of the most impactful activities or ways that I used to navigate mental health and I guess kind of recuperating myself during a period where I felt like I lost some direction. Um and then going into the second or third year, going into my second year of uni, I decided that right, I'm gonna go all in on this sport. Um and I spoke to the coach. I basically begged him to take a chance on me. Um I didn't have power of 10. I made up a time um at the Freshers' Fair. I said, well, I can run a 208-800. I had absolutely no idea what I could do. But yeah, he took he took a chance and I he showed up for me, I showed up for him, and yeah, he coached me into running some pretty decent times for my first year off athletics. Um, and that's kind of how it all kick started.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Like there's so much to delve into there. I think like in the first instance, let's talk about that injury because that's a I mean, that is a huge, huge injury. Was it so you mentioned getting hit in the sevens tournament? Was it that alone, or was there some like degenerative stuff there as well? Like that's a like that's a well two huge surgeries to to to have at what age? I was 18. Yeah, which is crazy, right? Like you hear people having hip replacements and hip surgeries normally later on in life. So as an 18-year-old bloke having to accept you're gonna go through that, that must have been pretty tricky.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Yeah, it was it was really difficult to navigate. I think I for most of it I was probably in denial. I was like, oh, this can't be happening right now. Um, but I guess underlying issues were genetic. So there was a big part of my bone structure, which was just genetically deformed. And I the easiest way I describe it is imagine trying to fit um a rectangle into a circle, into a semicircle. So there was just bone on bone. Um and like the joint and socket, the ball and socket were just not compatible, essentially. And just years of wear and tear and three-dimensional movement playing rugby just really ate away at the um at the bone structure and the labrum in both of the joints. And then when it started to get really bad was um after the small break. So essentially, some guy hit me from the side um and it just jammed my hip in in the wrong way, and it broke off a piece of bone that was about the size of a walnut. Um, and that just lived in there for a year and a half. I continued to play on it and it just slowly got worse. Um yeah, it was yeah, it was a tri it was a tricky period. I kind of just had a bit of a mentality of like suck it up and let's crack on until I really couldn't, which you know, going going back, I would have done it all differently. But um at the time I think I just really wanted to play.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Um I think it's hard, it's hard when you're that age, isn't it? As well, like particularly when you're like looking for that to potentially be your career. I've I've kind of and I've mentioned this on the podcast before, but like I've kind of got uh it's definitely not quite as traumatic as in that in kind in kind of that that um the the operation you had. But I had like a abscess in my lower spine when I was younger, also played a lot of rugby, and it was like an IV antibiotic situation in hospital for a you know month and a half or whatever, but very different, but I guess probably similar kind of trajectories when it comes to like you're in a space where you want to be and you want to move forward in, and then suddenly this thing happens and you're like, oh my god, like I've I've wanted to do this my whole life and now I can't do it, and you're seeing other people still do it, and I think that's the hardest thing, isn't it? It's you're like, why is that why is that thing happened to me? Like, why is this happening to me now when like I feel like my future was almost written and this is kind of trying to take away from it, and it's hard to get through that mindset then, isn't it? Because as a young man playing sport, all you want to do is play sport. You don't want to think that you have to, you know, rehab and do all this stuff to get back.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

No, I mean it's never something you expect to happen, right? And I just remember at the time feeling like once I had the surgeries, I just didn't know what my direction was. And I think that was the hardest part when you're you know, you've had your operations, you're bedbound, and you're trying to figure it out. It's it's hard to motivate yourself to make progress with rehab when you don't really have a north star. I think if I was cleared to play afterwards and it was like, you know what, you've got a broken bone, we can fix it, we'll get you back on the pitch in a year. I think having that North Star would have made the whole recovery process a lot more navigable. Um but the fact that the surgeon said you'd you'd be daft to get back on a pitch was, you know, painful to hear. And I think it just made that whole process challenging. And it's a big part of your identity, right? Like as you said, being a young man, like sport is really important to a lot of people when you're growing up and it's a core part of your friends, the community you surround yourself with. And it just felt like I was being removed from it.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

I think that's the that's one of the hardest things, isn't it? When you when something like that happens, it's like it's not just you're losing sport, but it's you, it's you losing the people that are involved in that sport, the people that you see on like a bi-weekly basis or you know, a training and then playing and see these people over and over again, then suddenly you're not doing it because you're obviously trying to get better, but it also means that you're not seeing those people, and you're like, then you lose out on relationships, and then that's when things start getting a bit fuzzy, and you're like, oh god, like how do I move forward from here? But yeah, it sounds like obviously from that point and where you where you did move forward was was kind of in university. I would imagine there was a moment there though where it was quite still very hard to accept that you know you're not gonna go back and and do this thing that you once loved or probably still do love. Like, do you remember the moment that you thought, look, mate, like you can't do this?

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Yeah, I I kind of delayed it for a long time. I think I didn't really want to accept it. I did have to just kind of stop and quit, essentially, which is that's the weird thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 12:32

That quit thing, it's like it's like accepting that you've got to stop, and then people will be like, Oh, you quit. You're like, I haven't like I haven't really quit. This isn't really on this isn't really on me, but it feels like that, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Yeah, I guess it's a pride thing, and you you do have to get around it, but I think the mo the moment or my my first year of uni where I was I I went to Durham and it's a big rugby university and um there's a big culture around it there. Um and initially that's pretty much the reason I went to the university. Um but yeah, I just had to accept that I was gonna have to pivot, and for a long time I didn't know what that would look like. I kind of lost my way for pretty much the whole of first year, to be honest. Um and I didn't know what my next chapter or sport that I wanted to take on was. I couldn't really navigate it um until I genuinely just started running for you know to clear my head and for mental health reasons. Um and that kind of started to kind of put itself into place organically. I was like, you know what, this is actually all right. I'm I I'm decent at this. And then I just slowly chipped away at it. Um but it took a while, you know. I um at the end of my first year of uni, I really just needed to leave that space. It I was really struggling um with just life generally. Um, you know, like academics, um my social life. I was just, you know, I just needed to a change of scene. Um and I sent some emails off and I got a job in the Bahamas um working for a marine biology school. So this kind of ties into the content as well. Um, so I did some underwater photography and videography for this school. And essentially my job was to kind of take high school students around and show them um the natural ecosystems and dive and just video everything. Um, and a big part of that culture at the school was exercise and being outside. And every day there'd be a big group run, and you know, you all the instructors would lead the runs off, and it kind of like naturally allowed me to um fall in love with this sport um just because I saw um how much other people enjoyed it, how much it brought people together, and just how much it helped clear my head.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

There's a really nice video, actually, that if you don't follow James on Instagram, I mean you probably do, and if you don't, you should. Um there's links in the description of this. But one of your pinned posts is is kind of about this story, right? It goes through from A to B almost, and you use a phrase in it that says, like, if you're feeling I think it's paraphrasing it, but you say a bit foggy, you're like it helps clear up the fogginess a little bit. Like that's what running does when you're when I was a bit foggy, that helped me. Um and I I like that because it's such a good way of describing it. And the fog can always fall again, can't it? Like you can always come back down, and it's always that constant kind of like that um understanding that you need to do this thing for the for the fog to rise. When you did, when you did find running and realize kind of like the powers it has for that to kind of help you make make you feel better, make that fog rise, must have felt like a little bit of a like a narnier experience, you know, opening the opening the wardrobe to to Narnia almost. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

I think I remember the first time I really realized that you know, running was a really helpful tool to I guess lift the fog, right? Um I went out for I was having a really rough day and I went out and just ran. I think I ran for like two and a half hours, and I just I just put in um one song on repeat and just went for it. And I got back home and I was like, this is what this is what I have to do. Like this is just a tool that is really helping me move forward in my life. Um, as as corny as that sounds. Um yeah, that was I I reckon that was the moment where I was like, you know what, this is this is helpful for me.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Sometimes things sound corny because they're true, though, don't they? That's the thing, like that's why they're there. And it's um, yeah, I I feel like one thing that we don't talk about enough really is I know people talk about the power of running, and I know like we it is spoken about online, but genuinely, like you can be in control of some of this stuff as well. Yes, of course, there are situations in life where um you're not just gonna go for a run to fix it. I'm not trying to say that, but like there is you can control the controllables, and in a lot of the ways, going for a run is one of those controllables. Like, if you know that makes you feel good, try and make that a priority. It's something we've spoken about on here before. It's like if you're busy, normally the first thing to go is it to go is going for that run, but actually that's probably the last thing that should go because letting that sort of drop by the wayside is gonna throw everything else off kilter. Is that something you find in your life? Like you're a busy bloke, you've got a lot on. Like, isn't is running like a priority? Is it the first thing that you must do for everything else to center around?

SPEAKER_02 18:03

I would say my life predominantly revolves around training. Like that is my that is the the core part of my schedule, and everything else kind of takes place around that. So to answer it shortly, yes, it does. Um it's the most it's the most important thing in my day running or training, mainly now because I just really enjoy it. It's the thing that I love to do the most. Um and if I don't train for a couple of days, I start to spin out and go a little crazy. Um yeah, definitely it's it's something that I won't um, you know, it takes priority for sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

And I think probably something that you'll never take for granted either, right? Because thinking back to thinking back to where you were kind of post-rugby, having those operations, you've you've kind of been through something very traumatic that has now put you in a position where I'm sure you take every day as kind of like you're very thankful for it, I would imagine, because at one point you didn't I bet you didn't think you'd be doing this ever.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Yeah, absolutely. I think it goes in ebbs and flows. I tell I'm a pretty competitive person and sometimes I lose sight of sometimes I lose sight of the past where there were periods where you know running and just daily movement wasn't really in the horizon at all. Um and it's easy to forget about um periods where you take things like daily movement, being able to get yourself a glass of water or going for a run, you take him for granted. Um but you know, it's it's important to remember those periods and understand that, you know, even if you go out for a 20-minute trot, like this is, you know, I'm grateful every time I can go running.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

It's better than going out for nothing if somebody, you know, if somebody says to me like, and I'm guilty of it myself, you know, I haven't got time to do it. It's better to go out for 15 minutes even than not go out at all. So like it's just getting your trainers on and getting out and just doing something, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 20:08

That's kind of like why I sort you right out.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Yeah, it's just yeah, it's amazing. I don't know what it is. I can't put my finger on it 100%, but there is just something about that kind of like meditation when it comes to movement that I think is just yeah, it's better than anything else. Um just like shaking out the rug, you know? It is. There you go. I like it, mate. All these analogies, we've got the hog lifting, we're shaking out rugs. Um, yeah, big fan. Um, I feel like that's like uh we've got a we've got a like a mug or t-shirt range there, mate. That can be like the merch store. Lift the fog. Make millions. Bang, bang. Um looking looking onto this sort of content creation side of things, then obviously we've mentioned the Bahamas and we've mentioned like going and doing what you did there and the culture of not only the sport, but also like you're in a really sick place, so you're gonna want to capture some really cool memories, which is what you started doing. When did that shift from being something you were doing kind of for yourself to be like, I want to remember this Bahamas trip, to something that was like, ooh, like I actually quite like this, and I could actually do something with this.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

So yeah, I started the Instagram account during lockdown a couple months after I had the surgeries. Okay. Um, and at the time I was posting rehab content on my balcony, like doing single leg RDLs, holding pots like everybody else did during lockdown. Um but at the time it was just a a bit of a documenting, a place to document my return to um return to sport and rehab process. Um and then going on to uni, I kept up with some gym stuff. I kind of neglected the account for, you know, I didn't take it too seriously at the time. I probably had a couple hundred followers. Um But I still kept it ticking over. And then when I went out to the Bahamas, I started, you know, I didn't really post much of the stuff. I was mainly producing for the school, but I absolutely loved um the process of, you know, editing and telling a story around, you know, capturing video videography content and the outdoors. And I wanted to figure out a way where I could apply that to a part of my life. And I think when running started to grow as a passion in my life, so did content. And when I returned back to the UK after that trip, I just decided that, like, right, this was a bit of a path for me to merge the two. Um, and it worked out quite well because at the time I was, you know, starting to ramp up um the athletics training, and it just they content and running complemented themselves quite well in my life at the time. Um, and I guess the account just started to slowly tick over um that year. Um and I got myself to the 10k mark, which was a oh, here we go. Like, you know, I can actually figure out a way to do something with this. Um, yeah, and from there it was just like slowly, consistently churning running content. And um, you know, I enjoyed every minute of it. I'm lucky enough to have my best friend Jasper. He was an absolute content machine with me at university. Even when I didn't want to film, he's dragging me up the house, telling me to get the shoes on, and he'd like cycle next to me with the camera out. Um, so he was a champion, super helpful. Um, but yeah, I don't know, they just complimented themselves really well in my life at the time, and here we are, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

One thing you're so good at is like telling a story. And I don't think many people can kind of script a reel and tell a story like you can. And yeah, take I know it's sometimes hard looking at the bloke on a podcast and taking the compliment, but I do, yeah, I think I genuinely think that you're you're brilliant at that. And I guess when you're thinking about putting that A to B story together and that A to B script together, it can be tricky, right? Like it's I bet it sometimes sticks for ages, and you're like, I don't know, like I can't find the thing, whether it's the hook or the out, like I can't find it. Where is it? What's it like when you do then find it, when you know you've got it, and then you know, you you can make this piece of content and you hit that post button and you know that right I'm proud of that one. Oh, it's it's money, it feels awesome.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Like script writing is the thing that takes up the most of my time. Like I could go on a small adventure, come up with an idea, um, or do something cool, right? But I feel like we're all exposed to such awesome things all the time through social media. Like I could go on my phone and see a video of the most beautiful landscape in the world, and we're all so numb to it. Um, so I think telling a story about even the most mundane things in life is it's super rewarding, and to see how people respond to that is it's epic when a video does well. I I don't know, I really like to get down into the nitty-gritty of how to tell a mundane story. Or no, a story about something quite mundane in a really interesting way. Um and it's a it's a I can't really pinpoint what the creative process is. It's just time and like looking line for line, like there's gotta be something I can throw in there. Um and it just takes a lot of time. Rewriting, writing out again, um, scrapping it all, going forward again.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

It just yeah, it's repetitions, I guess. I bet your uh note section in your phone is quite something. It's I bet there's absolutely like loads in there, like executed ideas, ideas that just make zero sense at all. Like if you're anything like me, you're probably waking up in the middle of the night, like writing random little bits down, and you just like this you look back at it the next day and you're like, what in the world is that? Like, I do not understand what that is whatsoever. Um, yeah, it's it's I mean, in terms of your process and talking about the mundane, I think sometimes they're the most relatable things, though, aren't they? Because I think that's when people, they're the things that people can connect to the most because they're relatable in their lives and they kind of understand the um the mundaneness, if that's the right way of putting it, right, of that thing and it connects with them the most. And even though we are living in, I guess, a bit of a time where we could there is the arguments there of like there's a lot of loneliness going on because people are living through screens and all that sort of stuff. I actually think with content like yours, it's it's more connective than most. So like you're feels like to me that you're actually building something rather than being part of the other side of it, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Yeah, it's very kind of you.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Yeah. Well, I I don't know if you I like and I don't know if you I don't know if you have that. Do you have that in mind? Do you think about like the impacts that the these videos are gonna have on people? Or is it yeah, like do you do you do you do you really have that in your process, or is it just kind of like I know that I just want to create something cool and if it if it reflects with someone else, then that's great.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

I think at the forefront of especially the story storytelling videos that I make, how the viewer feels is really important, right? I think as much as I make these videos because I enjoy them, I think if I can make somebody else feel awesome or change somebody's day by telling an interesting story or talking about something relatable, um, or even talking about a struggle um and overcoming it. Like if if that impacts, you know, one or two people, that I mean, that's just incredible, right? Like um it's a bonus. I mean, I love the creative process of being able to, you know, share content with the community of followers that I have. Um and I guess at the forefront it's motivating to want to keep creating if other people are enjoying it, right? If it makes people feel good.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Um where does it come from the want to do that? Like to have that creative process to like do that thing. Were you like that as a kid or like is it has this kind of been a thing that's developed over the years?

SPEAKER_02 28:41

I think it's I think it's definitely developed over the years. I mean, as a kid, I spent a lot of time super obsessed with being outside and being getting lost in the wilderness, and I don't know this comes around, but I don't know. I think I was very much like a countryside kid at heart, and I grew up in a city, and I would listen to stories my parents would tell about their friends and their childhood, and I always found it so fascinating growing up in a in a world that was so different. Um and I think the way my dad and mom and grandparents told stories, um I don't know, it always made me feel good, you know. There's an element of nostalgia to it, and I think when I when I tell a story um and create a video, um I really like the core theme to be nostalgia, or um I get a lot of my inspiration from things that I've heard over the years, or if my dad told a story to me when I don't know, I was a kid, I'll pluck little little snippets of lines that you said and I'll think about that. I'm like, oh, this is a really interesting way to talk about something. Um, and I'll just string it across into how I tell a story myself.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Um it's yeah, I and that's the thing I love, man. It's the it's the storytelling element and the the the obvious passion that you have for for storytelling. And um, yeah, again, if you don't follow James on social, you should do it because it's I mean, the stories are absolutely unbelievable, and I love it. Um let's talk about running, man, and like moving forward from where we are now. Um, for people that don't know, um, where are we at in our PBs? What have we got at the moment? Hit me with where where you are benchmark-wise right now.

SPEAKER_02 30:35

So 5K, I ran 1515 in April 2025. Okay. Um my 1500 meter time is 407. And my 800 meter time is 158. Amazing. Um, I actually haven't raced in over a year. I've been kind of sidelined a little bit with some issues I had on my knee this year, but I'm I'm back. I'm back on a track. Um, I'm starting to tick over into a training block, and I've got a race in the calendar in September um for a 5K. It's a Friday Night Under the Lights race. Um amazing. Which they're awesome. That was the last time I raced. So it was a Friday Night Under the Lights um in Battersea. Um, and I came off that PB was I think it was about a 45-second PB from my last 5k race. And I had a big string of injuries. I tore my NCL and meniscus um a couple months before I raced. Um, and I went so hard on cross-training and got myself into decent, decent shape, had about three weeks of you know, a training block, and then just decided to race and ran really well. Um I think I just cooked myself a little bit too soon. So I've um yeah, been navigating some of the issues. But yeah, the goals um honestly right now is to just get myself on a start line and and finish.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

And and that's why I asked that question in the first instance, because obviously I knew that that was the last 5k race and that sort of journey to where we are now. Um and it kind of gives me the opportunity to ask like when your life is revolved around running and you then are sidelined for a little bit of time, that is that's got to be quite tricky to get your head around, right? Because this is something that you've built from a content perspective, from a life perspective, from a personality perspective. You did that once with rugby and it was taken away from you. It must be very strange to kind of uh navigate those thoughts sometimes and not relate it back to stuff that's happened previously.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

100%. I think one thing that got me through it is running a decent time just before I got injured. I think I was just I was pleased with it, but I know that I had so much more capacity. So that was a big thing that that was the North Star. I knew that I was gonna get back. I didn't know how far away the North Star was or when I was gonna get back. But there there was always, you know, a goal in sight, which kept me on track. Um but it is incredibly challenging. I think you know, anybody listening loves running, right? It's a big part of our lives, it's a big part of our identities and our social circles, our free time. Um it is really challenging when it's taken away from you. Um but I guess you know, you learn a lot in the process where you know you can't train, you can't do something that you love. Um and I always say that this year I feel like I've developed a bit of a mental toolkit that's stronger than I had before. Um that's allowed me to get through, I don't know, a period where um running wasn't a part of my life. Um but you know, it it makes it easier the next time you get injured, right? You you know how to do it, you've done it before, you can do it again. Um and also like life goes on, right? There are fantastic other ways you can fill your time. Um, and that's kind of a tough bill I had to swallow at one point was, you know, I don't know what my timeline is here. I like for my own sake, I need to broaden my horizons a bit. And I think it was a blessing in disguise, especially with social media content, where I was pretty dependent on running um and running videos pretty much entirely. I didn't really have creative direction outside of that. Um and I think it was, you know, looking back on this last year, it's reassuring to know that um I can pivot right and talk about things that are going on in my life or moving flat and still continue to do what I do without it completely revolving around running. Um and I think it just definitely helped me be more a little bit more creative and outside the box.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

I think there's there's uh positives in having a niche, and then there's positives in um understanding that people don't just follow you for your niche, right? Like yeah, I think it's it's and I'm sure this last year has taught you that again, we've talked about the that sort of focusing on the mundane occasionally and um those sorts of those sorts of things and doing those sorts of things. And I imagine sharing that content and then seeing the the impact that that has and the um the audience's reaction and what comes back from that, it's got to be really nice for you as well. Because it's like, oh, these people aren't just following me because I've got a sick 5k time. They're following me because actually like they think I'm a pretty decent bloke, which is actually quite a nice feeling right now.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

It's a great feeling, yeah. Um, for sure. I think you know, there's so much more to life than running, and so much more to everybody's life than running. Um and sometimes it's easy to lose sight of that.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Yeah, I think we're all guilty of it. What's it what's it like though, being back, like being able to put down some sessions now, being able to get back out there, being able to use it as that that tool that's lifting the fog again. Like it must be nice to to be to just to know that you can wake up in the morning and get that movement in if you want to.

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Oh, it's surreal. I I've almost forgotten what it feels like, um, just because it's been so long. Um highlight the day for sure.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

Now it's it's you know, back to all I can think about weather, um, whereas six months ago I had to kind of stop myself from thinking about it, which feels awesome. I think like I got to put down a session last Tuesday, which was the first speak first speed session I'd done in something like 400 days. Um not that you were counting. No, no. But it was it was uh a K rep and some speedy threes and some twos, uh, and I got to train with a group again. I ran with Belgrave Harriers on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and it was oh, it's all I've been waiting for. It's awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

So good, isn't it, running with like whether it's a group of mates or with a club, and and this is something that you know we've mentioned before, but I think sometimes running can be framed as like a solo, lonely sport where actually like if you if you throw yourself into the right scenarios, it's kind of like being in a changing room. Like you can have that same feeling and that same environment. It doesn't have to be like those dark, lonely miles. Of course, they're gonna be at play, and you're probably gonna want them because maybe that's partly why you do it to keep yourself a bit of headspace. But it's also nice to go and throw yourself in the ringer a little bit and train with people that are better than you and realize that you're collapsing at the end of a rep and somebody else is walking over the top of you, and you're like, How's that happening? I don't understand. Honestly, it's uh it's it's humbling.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

It's humbling to say the least. It's it's humbling every time you go and train there.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

Yeah, man. Yeah, it's crazy down there at the moment, isn't it? Um it's cool though. It's cool to see that everybody is like putting their best foot forward with with that sort of stuff. Where where do you see yourself going then? Obviously, you're you're gonna push for this 5k. Um do you see taking steps up into further in the future?

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Up in the distance, you mean?

SPEAKER_00 38:35

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:36

Yeah. So I um I think over the winter I'm just gonna try and successfully build as much volume as I can. Um right now I'm I'm only taking over 30, 35k a week, and I've always been a pretty low mileage runner um and supplementing a lot with cross-training. But I do want to tap into the the 65s, the 70Ks, um get some cross-crunchy racing done this winter. I've actually got a place in Bath, half marathon in March 2027, um, which I've never actually raced a half. Um, so that will be a spectacle. I probably I'm probably gonna suffer.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

But you can see the smile though, mate. You're like, that's like one of those ones you're like, I've got this place, I'm gonna do it, but I know it's gonna really hurt. Oh, it's all good fun, though. It's all good fun. Everyone drags you around. Exactly. What do you prefer? Do you prefer the racing or do you prefer the training?

SPEAKER_02 39:36

I think I know the answer, but oh, you know, I used to get so nervous before races that it would just eat me alive. Um, but I love racing. Yeah, uh oh, it's it's a hard, I think it's 50-50. Yeah. Racing when it goes well is the best feeling in the world. Pre-race nerves are also one of the best feelings in the world, even though at the time it doesn't feel like it. Yeah. Um, but I also really love training. Like I it's a big part of my daily life. It's the thing I look to look forward to um every single day. But there is absolutely no better feeling than running a good time and you know hitting a goal. It's just it's electric.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

That's what it is, isn't it? It's that it's that proof that you've done what you've set yourself the goal to do. Like you've said, I want to do this thing, whether it be a time, a distance, a race, and you've done the work and you've got to that point, and then you've executed on that plan or that day. And because I'm sure a lot of people listening right now will have been through plenty of bad races and where you think you're gonna execute, when you actually do execute, I think that's why it feels even better, right? Because you're like, Oh, yeah, and you're always chasing that one race. And I bet you could probably pick it out. You could probably say, right, this was the best race of my life. It all clicked. I don't know why it just happened. I definitely could myself as well. It's like it's weird, and we just always chase that one until we have a better one, and then we'll be chasing that, which is yeah, it's just how it works.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Once you get over your you know, finish line high, the grass is always greener, right? It's on to the next. It's like, oh, you know, if the last 200 meters, I could have cranked it a little bit more seconds.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

It's just it's never ending. And you're in the moment and your heart rate is 195, and you're like, you definitely couldn't have pushed any harder there. Yeah, that is as hard as you could have gone. Um, mate, when we look back at at like your life to this point and everything you've been through, and the ups and the downs and um you know the rugby and the surgery, and then getting into run-in, and then even the the the recent injury and getting to get into where you are now, it's a it's a hell of a journey for a young bloke. Like you've been through a hell of a lot. Like when you when you reflect back on it all, does it does it feel like that? Or are you a are you a guy that's just taking things step by step, day by day, and you just keep moving forward?

SPEAKER_02 42:12

I think if I constantly looked back and you know held on to the feelings that I felt when I was going through it, um, I think it would be a lot harder to make progress. Yeah. I'm very much like, that's the past, it's happened, right? I can't change it. Um and thinking about it feels slightly unproductive. And I think, you know, if I want to keep going and pursue the goals that I, you know, have set out in my life, then I just kind of gotta keep taking over. I don't I don't look back and think, oh, that was so miserable. And I'm just like, oh, it just happened, right? It's it's happened, it's gone. Um on to the next. Um but it's conversations like this where I I don't really think about the hip surgeries and all of those things that have happened in my life. It's it's interesting to reflect every now and then and you know, remember that oh my days, like you know, that actually was a lot. Um but I think I I always just think it's important to you know keep keep things ticking over and just have a little North Star and keep making progress in whatever whatever aspect of life that you're pursuing.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

But that's an important lesson as well, because it's when you're in it, it doesn't ever feel like you're gonna be sitting in front of a bloke standing in his spare room with a light on him doing a podcast. Do you know what I mean? Like you're never you're never gonna be doing that, you're never gonna be having that conversation, or you're never gonna be reflecting back on it with your parents or your mate or a professional or whatever. Like it feels like this is it, you're living in it, and this is your life now. But actually, like when you do take it day by day, and when you do keep moving forward, and when you do keep kicking off those goals little by little, then you get to a point where um it does feel like a distant memory. You don't think back on it anymore until somebody asks you about it. And I think like as you as we all move through life, right? I'm sure you've had this from parents in the past. They'll be like, it's all right, like it'll pass, like, or you know, they talk about a hard time in their life, and you're like, How have you got through that? Yeah. And actually, it is it is as you do get older and you do have more experiences, you do understand why they told you these things when you were younger. And they do, you do understand why like they did give you the advice, even though in the moment and in the time you're like, I don't want to listen to this. This is ridiculous. Yeah, um, like this is gonna last forever. Exactly. It feels like that sometimes though, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 44:55

Yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

But we're we're moving forwards and yeah, day by day, step by step, and that's the I think that's the best thing. And mate, if somebody is in in a situation like that now and they are struggling with something, they are you know finding it a little bit difficult to lift that fog, let's say, let's loop back around to that analogy. Like you've been in it, you've been in the trenches a few times. What would you what would you say to them? Like, what what would be kind of your advice to to help somebody take that step and move forward?

SPEAKER_02 45:26

I think two things. The first is just it's easier said than done, but just try not to be hard on yourself. Um, you know, it's easy to just kind of beat yourself up for feeling a certain way and um, oh, why am I like this? This is all my fault, whatever. No, I mean if you're going through something, just take it easy on yourself. And I think the second part is no matter how hard it is, it's just to try and do one little thing every single day that'll lift lift your mood. Um and another analogy here is even if it's you know going on a walk around the block, but if you're in a bit of a hole and you can't get out, you go on a walk, you go on a run, it's like it's just adding a rung to a ladder to help you just slowly chip yourself out, chip your way out of it. Um I think I think movement is incredible, and I know that it's not always an option for everyone. You know, movement is it can be really challenging for um, you know, I'm lucky to say that it's a big part of my life, but going out on a run isn't always the easiest thing for everybody, even if it's going to get a diet coke from the Tesco's down the street or going to read a book or just call a pal, like just try and do one little little thing every single day that you know, even though you don't really want to do it, it's gonna make you feel a bit better. Um, and it just adds up, it accumulates, and um over time you'll just see yourself kind of grow into a a better headspace, and you'll see that fog slowly start to lift it.