Photo Therapy: When confidence is a legacy

If you are confident you model confidence to others, but sometimes you can’t see the sparkle that’s inside because life has dulled it.  EPA Photo therapy help you to see the beauty within, making it so visible that YOU can see it too.

About the Show

Each Thursday at 4pm, we broadcast on LinkedIn and YouTube, with the podcast released on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and more. 

Then every Friday at 8am, you’ll also receive a bonus podcast episode - a carefully selected recent conversation offering practical insight and timeless support.

Wherever you listen, you’re invited to pause, reflect, and reconnect: 

PODCAST: https://mentalhealthmatters.buzzsprout.com

YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5dbYRwciNQ3c2hZwpsfxnNIvpijH4S2b 

Today's show is hosted by

Dr Audrey Tang www.draudreyt.com  @draudreyt

and Judith Crosier https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556005102240

EPA Photo Therapy

Ela, Agnes and Paula

https://www.elawalendaphotography.com/makeover

 Wellbeing insights from 

Dr Gus Chaves

https://guschaves.com/ 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Hello and welcome to Mental Health Matters. I'm Dr. Audrey Tang. And I'm Judith Crozier. And this is the show where we talk about all things mental health and well-being without the hot takes and without the quick fixes. Today we are talking about photography and in particular how photography can show us a different side of ourselves that we never thought was there. And we've got the amazing Ella, Agatha and Paola coming in, and I can't wait to chat with them.

SPEAKER_04 0:33

Yeah, it's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_03 0:34

But let's start with photographs. I know a lot of people, I don't mind photographs, but I think I've got used to it over the years. Um, I know a lot of people who hate them.

SPEAKER_04 0:42

Well, yes. Just I mean, I'm one of them. I really, really hate my photo. But it's because when the camera comes out, I'm acutely aware of everything, you know, bad and how that's going to appear. And I've seen some influencer things saying, oh, you know, this is how you take this is how you pose, and you haven't got time to think about all of that when someone takes a camera out.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Although you say that um because I think I've done pageants ever since I was 17 or immediately a camera comes out.

SPEAKER_04 1:12

Yes, yes. You you absolutely know how to kind of stand in front of a camera, but you've learned that it comes naturally now.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

I've had to learn how to do that. But saying that, I have friends who it's almost it strikes the fear of God into them, and it's not necessarily because they're worried about what they look like, it's almost because they're worried about what's going to be captured is now there for life. Image, bad image, it's there forever. And I might share on social media, and you probably will I probably will because you know like that. They're not my friends anymore. Um but it is it's so interesting to me because I know with photo shoots when I've had to do headshots and things like that, it does take a while to kind of get into it because in my head I'm actually thinking I need this photograph to look a certain way, right? But it takes a very skilled photographer to just go, just do whatever, yes, and then we'll get the photos that you want.

SPEAKER_04 2:14

Exactly. Yeah, and a skilled photographer will get the photos rather than you as the subject having to look a certain way for them to get that. Yeah, so it you need a really good photographer.

SPEAKER_03 2:27

So talking of, yeah, let's bring them on.

SPEAKER_04 2:33

Welcome to the studio, Ella, Paula, and Aggar. It's really lovely to have you here with us today.

SPEAKER_05 2:39

Thank you. Thank you for inviting us.

SPEAKER_04 2:41

Oh, you're very welcome. So um we're obviously talking about photography, and people might think you just take pictures, um, but it's it's more than that, and you're doing something a lot deeper than that. So, how would you describe your work?

SPEAKER_05 2:54

Uh yes, people usually think that we just do photos, and um, that's the only thing we do. Uh, but uh I think it's um um a lot more to that, uh, because photography, we use photography as a tool to get to the final uh it's not like a final it it is a final product in a sense because um ladies who come for to us for photos they do um get in the end uh night nice pictures, um, but also photography is used as a tool, and also um when uh ladies come to us for the photo shoots, um they that they there are quite specific circumstances why they do come for the photo shoots. Right. So it's very often that they are at some turning point in life. It might be that they they got just got divorced, uh they became mother, they turned 40, 50, maybe they changed the career, and they just want to rediscover themselves, they want to um see themselves maybe in a bit different light. Yeah, and so very often we see that those ladies they lose their confidence, they have some insecurities, and by applying them beautiful makeup, doing her taking photos, these are tools to make them look beautiful, but also there are tools to make them feel better, not just look better, but feel better. Because obviously, you know, women we like looking nice, yeah? Yes, and when the women come to us for the photo shoots, they don't just come for nice photos, they come for the whole experience because they know that when they um they come to us, they can uh they can feel like someone is looking after them. We spoil them, we give them experience, we spend the whole day with them. It's not like they come make up her photos done, goodbye. No, it's not like that. We give them much, much more. We just look after them, we just show them that they are very worthy, and every second of the photo shoot of this experience is dedicated just for them.

SPEAKER_04 4:59

Oh, it sounds amazing!

SPEAKER_05 5:01

It is quite amazing, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:03

So, uh, when did you realize that photography could change how people saw themselves?

SPEAKER_05 5:10

It's a gradual process, it's not like one turning point in my photography career showed me, like, oh yes, that's what changes people. Um, you learn, I mean, I I've been taking photos for years, uh like over 20 years of experience. Um, but I can see in people how they change in front of the camera, but to see this change, you need to create for them the environment to feel like they can change and they can feel relaxed and they can feel appreciated and seen. Basically, when um when our clients come over to uh to to us, mostly what they say is like, I'm not photogenic, I'm not confident, I don't feel good in my body, and uh that's the moment when uh we take over it and we try to change their way of thinking, and that's the most important thing to be fair, because um if they don't uh start the change in the um in their own minds, um there is less success with uh the photo shoot. So before the photo shoot, we do meet our uh clients and we talk to them, we get to know them as much as possible. So uh when uh the day of the first photo shoot comes, they feel like they can trust us, they feel uh safe, they feel appreciated, and they know that we know something about them, and this photo shoot is uh um specifically designed for them, not for someone else. It's not like a um generative thing that every woman has the same photos. You tailor it. Yeah, we tailor it to uh the ladies' needs. Um and we can see the shift during the photo shoot. Oh yeah. Because usually, even when they know us, even when because some of the ladies who come to us for photo shoots, they uh they know like a few of them, they knew Aga before, they knew Paul Paula before, or myself, or even if they don't know us at all, um the shift is actually an amazing thing for us to observe during the photo shoots. Because when they come in in the morning for the makeup and her, they are very nervous, they are stressed. We had few girls saying, like, I thought I would cancel it like the day before. I was thinking about canceling it, I was so nervous. They don't feel confident, but during the photo shoot, when we start, Paula starts doing makeup, Aga starts doing her. Uh, we are quite playful as well. So, uh, especially me and Aga when Paula does makeup, we just do silly things. Recently, we did even uh dirty dancing, uh brilliant dance, you know, when uh Aga was trying to lift me up. Uh not very successful, but very funny. Yes, very funny. And this is the kind of atmosphere and um um uh we create for for those girls, and during the day we can see how she's shifting from being really insecure and closed up, and they just start blooming, opening up, and that's the beautiful thing uh to observe for us. So um that's so lovely. Yeah, we've had a few clients. Uh one example, uh, one girl when she came, she was basically she was shaking, she was like she was shivering. Yeah, she was very stressed when Paula was doing the makeup. Uh then we took some photos, and like one hour before the photo shoot was just to ending, I was like, you know what? I found a nice place in a hotel, but you would have to go there just in your underwear. Uh there were not many people passing by there. Actually, there wasn't nearly no one there. And I was like, but if you want to, there is a beautiful space there. And she was like, you know what? Now I can go there even naked. Wow, from being and from being like very insecure about her body, she opened and she was like, I don't care anymore. I feel so great, I can just you know, just walk around the hotel naked. I was like, that's not necessary, actually. But yeah, it was really it just shows us how much they open up, yeah, and how much they trust us and trust the process. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

Beautiful, yeah. Um, sort of relating to that. So that was a that's a gorgeous example. Yeah, I'm gonna come to you both. Do you have an example like that of a client which has just emotionally moved you in that way? Let's start with with Paola.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Okay, uh, so uh personally, yeah. Okay, uh I think yeah, uh I have one uh example, a client like a bright makeup. Uh yeah, bright makeup. Yeah, she was very stressed because she has uh bad experience before with uh different makeup parties, and she was very, very stressful because she doesn't like uh heavy makeup, and uh I always um uh treat uh personally um every client. So I just check and I do conversation with her and I uh listen to her. So uh after makeup, she was so happy, she was so confident, and she she wanted to cry. So I think this is the best feedback what I can hear from clients.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Oh that's so that's beautiful, that's so lovely, and what about you, Aga?

SPEAKER_06 10:33

Um last time we will uh metamorphose total clients and uh come to my salon and have uh long hair, very long hair, and short cut hair very short. Wow! Total, total change, yeah. Oh this is amazing, and she uh was very stressed because first time come here, had come to mirror because she lives in Nottingham, yeah. Nottingham, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:03

Wow. Oh, I and actually the fact she trusted you to do that much of a cut because I know how important hair is to people, especially women. Yeah, that's incredible. And and what about you, Ella? Do you have a moment where you just go, oh yes, that's why I do my job?

SPEAKER_05 11:21

Oh my god, many moments. I can imagine. Talk for hours about that because I do I do weddings, I do portraits, I do events, and all together we do uh we do uh those um female photo shoots, natural photo shoots. Yes, lots of moments, but what girls are saying um the most important for us is feedback. So when the clients come back to us um after a photo shoot and they choose their favorite photos, it happens that they cry. Literally, they look at the photos and they've got tears in their eyes. To be fair, we also have two tears in the body. They're like four of us sitting like crying. But you know what? Yes, it does happen, uh it does happen uh a lot because you know what? It's amazing to see when they watch those, um, when they view those photos and they see like, oh my god, I didn't know I still have it in me. You know, it's just like they they can't believe that that's them, and it gives them so much power, so much confidence. They just feel I think that they just feel like that they've been reborn really sometimes. Exactly. And it's such a beautiful experience to watch them in that moment. Um, so yes, I think, and we had one uh client which she gave and she gave us like the most beautiful feedback ever. Uh, she said something like I think I've got it written down somewhere, yeah. She said, like, um, goddamn people, we thought talking about these feminine uh feminine uh photos is just you know like blah blah and not really true. But I came to you and uh I think the doctors should prescribe you and people would feel much happier. And you know what? That was that was like the best one of the feedbacks we remember and we will always remember because it was so precious, you know. Yeah, it made us cry up literally.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

Yes. I think what you're doing is so powerful, and let's get into kind of what these women are battling with. What do you hear clients say about themselves before they do a shoot with you or have the experience with you? Do you hear that negative voice that they carry with them?

SPEAKER_05 13:31

Oh yes, unfortunately we do. Uh we do it a lot. Um mostly it's about uh their body, you know. Because uh nowadays, you know, comparing with other women. The thing is that we we women we tend to compare to our friends, to celebrities, um, to other women, and the thing is that uh sometimes we we we go so far with this comparing to other people that we forget who we really are. And the thing is that um I feel really bad, especially for those young girls at the moment nowadays with the social media and with those unrealistic, absolutely unrealistic body images uh online. Um that's that's something to battle with, I I think. Um and women when they come, they say like, oh, I don't like my body, I'm too fat, I'm too skinny. It's not like girls come and say, like, I've got too much body. There are girls who come and say, Oh, I'm so skinny, I don't feel feminine enough. So it's it goes everywhere. Yeah, um, they don't feel confident, they feel like they can always, every single woman can find things about their body they don't like.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:55

So when we talk with the ladies, when we've got this um uh meeting uh before the photo shoot, we literally ask them, what do you like about yourself? What do you like about your body, what you don't like about your body? What do you like about this and that? And we try to um turn their opinions around about themselves and show them like actually this part of your body is pretty awesome, you know. So just we try to show them that it's better than they think. Yeah, um yeah, so yeah, but mostly yeah, quite negative opinions about themselves. But when they leave the photo shoot, yeah, it's all because we can see that the magic, yeah, the magic worked, and they feel like, yeah, actually, I'm pretty cool, yeah, and they look great.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

They have a reminder of that in a photograph as well, which I think is quite important because it's they can feel seen and then they can also see themselves through your eyes, if nothing else, in future. I think that's really important. We'll we're gonna keep you and we will carry on after a quick tip from one of our previous guest experts.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Are you carrying things that aren't even yours? Most of us walk around carrying emotional weight without realizing it. Stress from work, uh, family expectations, other people's problems, old stories about who we should be. Here's a simple visualization I often use in sessions. Imagine you're wearing a backpack. Inside it, place everything you're carrying emotionally today. Responsibilities, worries, roles, expectations. Now ask yourself two questions. Is this mine to carry? Do I really need to carry this today? Something's saying. Life comes with responsibility. We get it. But not everything belongs in your backpack. So let something go today. Even one item makes you lighter. So protect your emotional space as intentionally as you'd protect your physical body.

SPEAKER_04 17:16

Welcome back to Mental Health Matters, where we're having um a really lovely conversation with Ella and Paula and Aggar about um photography and specifically photographing females and making them feel amazing. Um, so why do some people hate photographs of themselves? I'm one of those people, I can't stand my photo being taken, which um I I don't really know anyone that really does enjoy it.

SPEAKER_05 17:45

Uh there are people who enjoy it. But yes, majority of people feel very unsecure, insecure in front of the camera, uh not unsecure, insecure in front of the camera. It's very vulnerable um experience to be fair.

SPEAKER_04 18:01

That's true, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:02

Um it's very exposing. Um and I think mostly what we um battle with is the opinions of others. It's not necessarily how we feel about being photographed, but also opinions of others. And those opinions can be really damaging, and uh especially with the fact that uh we are often criticized by the way we look. And unfortunately it uh also comes from the childhood, and even when we uh and the thing is that we are criticized by the by those people who are the closest to us, and that's quite a disturbing thing, yeah? Because these are like our parents, teachers, uh friends, I don't know, husbands, wives, boyfriends, girlfriends. They uh may say sometimes something what sticks with us and stay with stays with us throughout our whole life. So um I would say it's important to be quite sensitive and be uh aware of what we're saying about someone's appearance because it can stick with you forever. You know, we've heard those things like oh your nose is too big, your thighs are too wide, your something, and your belly is too big, you're this or that. And when you hear this as a child, we tend to keep it inside us, yeah, you know, and it builds up in life, and we go through life with that. So um that might be one of the things. And the thing is when people say, like, oh, I'm not photogenic, I don't like being photographed, I say like, give me a chance. Yeah, give me a chance, I'll show you you can like it. I like I can show you your best side. Just let me get to know you a little bit. And I say like to people, like, you didn't meet us yet. So uh I'm sure I'm sure when you have our uh experience with us, um, you know, um you'll feel that yeah, actually, I I can I can handle it, I can be photographed.

SPEAKER_04 20:04

Yeah, yeah, they must feel like they're in very safe hands with all of you. I I imagine that's our goal.

SPEAKER_05 20:10

That's our main goal to make uh to make our clients feel safe and and they need to trust us. They know that we are they are in a safe environment and um we look after them so they don't feel like uh they are in a place where they shouldn't be, basically.

SPEAKER_04 20:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

Sort of related to that, I'm gonna put all of you on the spot, but Jude and I will answer this question first, okay? Um I am gonna ask you to think back of one thing that you were told about your looks and how you've overcome that and talked to yourself more kindly. So that's that's the question. Is there one thing that you were told about your looks in childhood that you've carried with you and had to overcome and make you feel more comfortable about yourself? So that's the question. For me, and it's a silly thing because I can't do anything about it, I was always told you're not pretty enough because you're Chinese. Oh that's what it is. Chinese, and in a very white population, was not like A, it's not what I can do about that, but B, the comparison is I don't look like everybody else. And then I won a pageant, and it was kind of like oh wow, everybody else. And that actually made, but I had to do that, and what I did to overcome it was actually put my name forward and enter it. I had to have the courage to actually do it in the first place, and so I think for me it's that okay, well, you can overcome things just by being a bit braver about stuff and seeing what happens. Yeah, so that that would be my example of a look thing that I've kind of taken with me, but I've got over it because I've gone, well, I've tried it, it's worked. So what about you, Jude?

SPEAKER_04 21:51

Yeah, well, um it's funny, isn't it? I when when you're at school kids are Cruel. Um, there there were two things that really stand out. One is my mum said um I was very clumsy and you know, very ungainly, and very I was tiny as a child, very slim, tiny, but she said I was very thumpy like an elephant. So that that's one thing, and then the other thing is there was a there was a saying at school which was uh nice leg shame about your face. So but kids said it took all the kids, they said it's good one, yeah. But that's something that I really took with me that that I you know I might be slim and have have a nice figure, which I did then, but my I I was ugly, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:33

Oh my goodness, so how did you overcome that?

SPEAKER_04 22:36

Um well the clumsiness thing I I took dancing up, yeah, so I that's what I did, and um I learnt to not be so clumsy sometimes with with always thinking that I was really ugly. I didn't really do much about it, but then you know I had boyfriends and social proof, and then I just thought, well, I can't be that bad. And that was but that's always there, it's never gone away.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

But this already begins to underpin how powerful your work is because it is that social proof. You think something, yeah, here's your photograph, yeah. Now argue with it, and I think there's something there's something in that. What about you, Agger?

SPEAKER_06 23:17

Oh my gosh. Um I think is um maybe yeah, I go to work. First, my work goes to Salon in Poland, and um uh I have um next level and manager and come back at home and my mom say no, you you don't go uh upstairs. You you you can't know this is very um strong, important and uh it's not a good deal. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

And how because because you three are doing power. Amazingly, yeah, you've got through that.

SPEAKER_06 23:59

How have you and now I have more powerful?

SPEAKER_04 24:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 24:04

Love that because I say I show you more.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Yes, you can do yes, yeah, brilliant. And what about you, Caleb? Um yeah, so uh my example is like um I remember when I was a small girl and my grandma told me uh that my legs is big and then I remember that so always always remember that. And uh now I I like.

SPEAKER_03 24:42

I like and uh and I like sports yeah after sessions and uh did you did you have the photo session? Did you have your photo?

SPEAKER_05 24:52

And we did we keep telling her that her legs are amazing and she needs to show them all. Yeah, she showed me so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Now I like it and uh I do some sports, so I I really like but I remember like uh someone when you're growing up told you it's so so important. So yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

Oh, that's that's and again shows the power of your work. What about you, Ella? Because this will have come from somewhere as well.

SPEAKER_05 25:18

Yes, um I was uh as a girl, young girl, I was quite uh uh slim skinny, uh and uh um I was quite uh flat-chested. You know, I think that's that's that's the problem of uh many many girls, especially when they uh start getting teenagers and when they are in teenage years. Uh I mean it hasn't changed much since then in that area, but I I've learned how to like it, especially after having my children and breastfeeding them. I think that gave me confidence, like my breasts are actually okay. I breastfed my kids, you know, so they must be funny. So that was that was something what uh helped me to overcome it and feel like yeah, that's that's okay how how I am and how they are.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

Yeah, I I love that because I think sometimes it is thinking about ourselves in a very different way. I'm sporty, I can breastfee, I I'm competent, I'm a dancer. It's it's that kind of I'm a pageant quick, you know, that kind of thing. It's being able to have that memory, and that's so important. Um, and so I know you've talked about the crying from the from your client and all of that. Have there been any other really powerful reactions where you've just gone, oh my goodness, I wasn't expecting that. Have you seen?

SPEAKER_05 26:36

Uh yes. Yeah, yes. As I as we mentioned before, uh, these are the reactions when during the photo shoot, yeah, uh I tend to show clients what we are doing with them. So I show them the photos at the back of my camera. And when they are like, Oh, was it good? Was it good? Did I did I look good? And I show them and they're like, Oh, I can't believe it! I look like that. I'm like, yeah, I do look like that. Wow, I look like a star, I look like a so these are the moments which um which we love actually. That's what that's why we do it, actually.

SPEAKER_03 27:07

Yes, they want more, yes. And if you're watching this, we will be we are showing you the pictures, and if you're listening to this on podcast, you're just gonna have to watch this show because the photographs on your Instagram page they're absolutely stunning. We we are keeping you, but I know I'm certainly oh, this is very exciting. If we wanted to book in with you, could you just give us a little bit of information about um where you are, what you do, and and maybe a uh a ballpark of the package that you would offer?

SPEAKER_05 27:34

Yes, of course. Uh so uh we are obviously on social media, uh, we are on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. If you put photo uh therapy by EPA, you'll find us for sure. We are working on our website now, it should be ready within the next uh uh three, four months. Um, and uh yes, if you uh would like to get in touch and ask us about the photo shoot, we'll tell I can tell you how spoiled you can be. So um so the thing is that uh in in the photo shoot you've got uh makeup done, hair done, photos, we book a hotel room. Um or if you want to, we can do both, we can do uh the photos in a hotel room, and also we do something uh else. We do we uh make uh the dreams come true. So, for example, if uh some ladies they have some uh dreams like oh, I would love to have a photo shoot with horses. We had it recently that lady she wanted uh she wanted nice photos with the horses because she's a she loves painting and she paints uh horses. So that's what we did. Yeah, we took uh we took her to a place where she could um uh where she could have photos uh with the horses done. We had a lady who wanted to have photos uh on her motorcycle, another one who wanted to have photos uh with a car, you know. So whatever when they come, and we that's why we try to get to know the person and not only find out like what you like about yourself or not, we ask them what music they like, what films they like, what are their interests, what are their hobbies, what dreams they have. Because we want to make their dreams come true. Very often these are the dreams they were holding inside them for years, and then they come to us and you're like, let's do it. Oh, yes, as simple as that.

SPEAKER_03 29:19

Just let's do it, you know. I love you. I love that, and then we are keeping all of you. Yes, yeah, you see, this is my motivation. Um we are keeping you, we'll be back after a tip from one of our guest experts.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

So most people, when they want to make change, they think of these huge changes, massive changes that they don't want to, you know, make. They tend to start by overcommitting to too much in a little time. We know we know what happens because we've all been there. We fail in less than two weeks because it's too much to change in such a short amount of space. Uh so my tip for you is to commit to one small change, even if it's just five minutes a day, that it's doable, achievable, and then you can actually commit to it, to do it daily. Once you do that, you start to establish a better relationship with yourself because so far you have been failing to yourself. So if you had a friend that would never show up, at some point you would question if you could trust them. So right now, if you've been overcommitting, you don't trust yourself, and we need to reestablish that relationship with yourself. So don't get one small thing. Five minutes a day, two pages of a book, whatever it is. It's the small things that are gonna pile up to big changes, and that habit will create a new identity, and that identity will come with new patterns, and then the change will just establish. And that's gonna be the new the massive change you want. Start with small patterns.

SPEAKER_04 31:21

Welcome back to Mental Health Matters. Um, we're talking about amazing photography shoots um with hair and makeup and just making women feel fabulous. Um, it's a really lovely conversation. Um so how do you use your work to challenge beauty stereotypes?

SPEAKER_05 31:42

Uh beauty stereotypes. That's the thing we challenge a lot, to be fair. And to be fair it's it's the expression which I really don't like. Absolutely. Um the thing with beauty stereotypes is that it tries to put us all in one box. Yeah, and uh there are billions of us in the world, and everyone is different, and um there are so many individualities all around that we don't want women to feel like I'm the same as her or I look the same as her. Yeah, so we treat ladies very much like an individual person, and what we've said before, we want to show them that they are exceptional just as they are, because of who they are. Um, and that's that's our goal. That's so important. That is so important.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

Um, I'm just gonna jump in before you ask me. I'm gonna throw this to you two because I know when I when I work with clients, um, and this is on a um say career side of things, I will suggest something and they'll go, no, no, no, no, no, I wouldn't do that. Now, with hair and with makeup, you may have this vision of what you can do, but that client will go, oh no, no, no, I can't do that. How do you work with a client to help them to see, I guess, what you see in them, say with hair.

SPEAKER_06 33:10

Sometimes client uh come to my salon and say, I want change, I don't know what I do. Yeah, what I do, you know. It's this is perfect. For me, it's perfect, you know, because I have uh three, about two, it's sometimes it's I don't like very blonde hair, bleach hair, because it's very damage, yeah. And sometimes I change a little bit and don't believe a woman is very change and and say sometimes I don't have dark hair blonde, you don't need dark and light blonde or mocha or you know milk, and is a lot of color is blonde, yeah? Yes, and I change and oh my goodness, I don't believe. Yes, I never even thought. Trust me, and you know he's very happy after. This is amazing moment. Yeah, finish is uh is for my amazing moment.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

Yeah, it's your your creativity that's allowed to shine and actually and your your talent, your ability, your your training comes out in that.

SPEAKER_06 34:24

I see, you know, because I see after and she don't see after, and trust me, yeah. Oh, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

And and Paolo, yourself?

SPEAKER_03 34:33

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Uh so for me um I have some example uh girls like uh they want strong makeup, uh they want heavy makeup. Uh but in my work uh in my work in my job um I focus on less, it's more for me. Sometimes uh you have to just put uh a little bit and you are changing, but it must be in the right place. Yes, yes. So yeah, that's for me is is the best option.

SPEAKER_03 35:10

And again, that's showing your skill and your training and all of that is so important because I think this is also what we're challenging with this show. A lot of people, it's very easy to say, you just take photos, you just fluff around with hair, you just put some makeup. No, there is skill to every single thing that you do, and on top of that skill, you are making people feel amazing, and that's wonderful. Sorry, I interrupted you there. No, I just was curious.

SPEAKER_04 35:38

No, that was a great extra question because yeah, it's really lovely to hear your experiences and those of your clients. Um, so you've touched on how you sort of create a safe space, you get to know the person beforehand, etc. But how do you, in you know, in your studio or at the shoot, how do you do that? Because as you said, it's a very exposing place to be in front of the camera.

SPEAKER_05 36:00

Yes, uh, yes, it is. Um, so as I as I mentioned, the meeting before the photo shoot is very important. So the person knows who she deals with, yes, and uh and it's it it gives you I think it makes you calmer when you know what's gonna happen. So during the the the meeting before the photo shoot, we talk what's gonna happen on a photo shoot, we discuss every step. So the person when she when she comes to the uh to the photo shoot, she knows what she can expect. But also uh on the day um we book a room in a hotel, and that's the room just for this person. Okay, so no one can enter there apart from us, and we talk, we talk a lot uh with uh with our with our clients. So by talking, and it's not like you know, heavy talks about difficult topics, you know. If she wants to share something with us, we are very open to that, and it doesn't go any bit further than this room and and uh and us. But um we talk about different things, we share experiences. Very often these are women who come and they are the same as us, they are mothers, they are wives, they are partners of someone, you know, they they they have businesses, they work. We share the same experience as them. And I think by that they feel like yeah, they are my girls, yeah, they understand me. Yeah, so I think um having this understanding, having this uh connection with the person, it helps them to uh to relax and to feel that they are in a safe space. And as I said before, we spoil them. Yeah, we give them snacks, we give them some nice food, we give them drinks, coffee, tea, whatever they need. We are just like we are just trying to show them that that's your day. It's like you know, Christmas came early this year. Yes, so that's it's it's everything, it's everything for this person, and they know that it this whole day is dedicated to them. There are no other distractions, yeah. It's just for her, so she knows that um uh she'll leave uh the room and she'll leave the day satisfied.

SPEAKER_03 38:06

And and so that relates to my to the next question, which is how long do you think the confidence lasts actually after the shoot? So that that little nugget you've given people, do you see them walk that little bit taller when they leave? Do you see what do you see and how long how long does that that stay with them?

SPEAKER_05 38:24

Uh we see them after the photo shoot. Four weeks after the photo shoot, we see the ladies again. Uh so they choose the uh photos um from the photo shoot. Uh it lasts long because we ask them after those four weeks, how are you feeling? Yes, they are still like on cloud nine, they are still excited, they come to see the photos and they say, like, um, we've had the situation where like one lady she uh wanted to apply for a job, but she wasn't really sure if she's good enough, if she can manage you know the interview, and after the photo shoot, she went to the infant interview and she just smashed it. And she was like, Yeah, I felt confident. I felt like yeah, I can do it. If I did this photo shoot, I can do anything, you know. The other one lady, um, she was trying always to lose weight for her husband. Yeah, um, there are stories like that, trust me. But then after that, she felt like, you know what? Actually, I'm okay with how I look. Your photos proved me that actually I look pretty good. And if I want to uh look after my body and care about my body, I'm doing it for myself, not for him.

SPEAKER_03 39:27

Oh, that's just I love that the empowerment of that. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 39:32

So when I met this lady after, because not only after uh to choose the photos, but I I met her somewhere in different on different events, and I saw her dressed in a nice dress. She came to me and she was like, Look how I look. I was still like, thank you for you know this photo shoot because I feel great and I look great, and that's what I um that's what that's what they take uh from the from the shoots. Yeah, I think it gives a lot of confidence boost to them a lot.

SPEAKER_03 39:59

You've given them a mindset shift. I that example of I did it for my husband, but you know what, I'm just doing this for me, yeah, is is so powerful, and that's incredible work that you do. Um, if we are looking for your uh website or Instagram handle, what uh what are we gonna be typing in?

SPEAKER_05 40:18

Uh phototherapy by EPA, and you'll find us uh on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and soon websites as well. Amazing, thank you so much. Yeah, yeah, of course. Um I would like just to emphasize one thing which uh brought us three together to be fine. Um because what we were discussing recently, because we've got those uh weekly uh meetings, um three of us, and we were discussing recently very important things because as I said before, we are uh three of us we are mothers, we've got daughters and sons, and what we came up with is that our what we do is not just for women, it's just for further generations. Because what we believe that confidence is a legacy, and if we are when we are like confident mums, feeling good about ourselves, that's something what we're gonna pass to our daughters. Yeah, that's amazing, absolutely, and that's our mission, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:21

Yes, in a nutshell, and that is a very powerful and actually important, sadly, essential mission that we have in society today. And one of the other things that we talk about on the show a lot is it's so important to have a lot more connection rather than the content alone, and and what you're doing is absolutely not just connecting with with women but helping women connect with themselves, and that is incredible. Um, thank you so much, ladies. Thank you for having me. That's amazing. Thanks so much. Such a pleasure. We'll head over to Test the Trend. As always, with Test the Trend, now I'm getting due to do this. This is the weekly challenge. Yeah, and what I'm gonna do is I'm just gonna do a very short meditation with you.

SPEAKER_04 42:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:06

So what I want you to do is just relax your shoulders, uh sort of unclenched jaws, that sort of thing. You can do this also if you wish to. Um, and I just want you to, for now, not if you're in the car, obviously, but close your eyes, just breathe in and just feel grounded. And I want you to imagine someone you love is standing in front of you. Someone, someone or something, it could be a pet, someone or something you care about deeply. So that person or that animal. And I want you now to notice the first thing you see in them, whatever that is. It might be their warmth, it might be just an energy, it what makes them them. And I just want you to think about that. And now I want you to make that person be you in a mirror. Can you? This is the challenge, can you see yourself with the same eyes? Go for the warmth, go for the light, go for the energy, go for what makes you you. And just take a deep breath in, all the way out through the mouth, really blow all the way out. When you're ready, just open your eyes again. How did you find that?

SPEAKER_04 43:26

Um, almost an impossible concept for me to do. Interesting. I mean, I'd say almost impossible. I couldn't.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

So, when you were thinking about the person you loved, or the thing that you loved, the animal, what did you see? What did you focus on?

SPEAKER_04 43:41

Um, in that person, the sort of smile and the warmth, the smile and the eyes, the smile that reaches the eyes.

SPEAKER_03 43:50

Okay, and when you had to think about you, yeah, what could you focus on? An energy, could you focus on your warmth? Could you focus on your capabilities? What did you see?

SPEAKER_04 44:00

Then um I saw in my mind what I see when I look at a photo of me. Oh how interesting which is what I hate. I I really like I never look in the mirror. Um and when I so when I go to the gym and the personal trainers say, watch yourself, and I and I just say no, I won't do it. So I so that's why I think I found it really, really difficult.

SPEAKER_03 44:27

So okay, this might work for you as well if you found that a struggle. When you're thinking about looking yourself in the mirror, especially at the gym, yeah, it's not to check how you look. No, and they say that, they do say that. Health and safety, it's a really practical task. So maybe start with seeing the practical task first. Doing it just for the practicality of it. Is my back straight? Not what does my back look like? Yeah. Is it straight? Yeah. Are my knees bent in the right way? Then from that, don't go into again what do I look like? Yeah. Go into, ooh, I lifted that weight much better. What it does, what your body does. And just see if that but sometimes you have to start with the practical. Sometimes when it's really difficult, start with the practical, but you are allowed to see yourself kindly.

SPEAKER_04 45:22

What a great show. That was amazing. It was so positive and uplifted. And again, it's that energy, it's energy. Yeah, exactly. All three of them had great energy, and together they're the force of nature. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_03 45:36

And I think what's so nice again when we talk about this, it's not about what people look like. No, no, because I'm feeling the buzz of it, yeah. Not pick not even picturing each individual. No. I don't think I could do that.

SPEAKER_04 45:51

I I know exactly what it's the feeling that we've been left. It's such a great time. After the show, it's really, really um uplifting.

SPEAKER_03 46:00

Yes, yeah. So I think there is a lot about the whole environment and the whole ritual of doing certain things. So whether it's you're using photography to see yourself in a different way or to have a different experience, it is not enough without the package that certainly the girls provide, yeah, but just without the package of being allowed to feel good.

SPEAKER_04 46:26

Yeah, absolutely. I I just yeah, I just think that they they're providing that space, take away the camera, take away everything else. They are kind of putting the person, their client, um, in a position where the client is allowed to first of all relax and not have to be in control of everything, which is a huge kind of gift, yeah, you know, on its own. But then they're really focusing on all that client's positive, um both physical and about their personality. So I I just think that you just anyone going into that is gonna come out feeling a lot better.

SPEAKER_03 47:10

And I think they ended the interview on a very powerful point, which is confidence is a legacy. How we behave is a legacy because a child doesn't get born and then start going, oh, I look like this, I look like that, but if they see a loved one doing that, they start thinking, do I need to do that? My introduction to diet culture was through my mum, not through something else. Wow, and that's my mum worrying about her weight. And so that's that is a point. If we have that confidence in ourselves, we can pass it on, whether it's to children, whether it's to friends, whether it's to loved ones, whoever we can impact, we need to remember how powerful an impression we leave.

SPEAKER_04 47:56

Yeah, that's true. So true.

SPEAKER_03 47:58

On that note, do look them up because their Instagram is fabulous. Have a healthy week.