He Hit Rock Bottom. Now He’s Running 1,700km to Help Other Men Speak Up | Nick Coats

What happens when the life that looks successful from the outside is quietly falling apart on the inside?

Nick Coats is a former British soldier, endurance athlete and performance coach. After seven years with the Royal Regiment of Scotland, he moved into oil broking and pursued the things he thought success was supposed to look like: career, money, status and more. But behind that outward success, Nick was becoming angry, isolated and deeply unhappy.

Eventually, sitting at his desk, the pressure became overwhelming. He describes feeling “trapped by this invisible force” and reaching a point where he knew something had to change.

In this deeply personal episode of the mentl space, Nick talks with Scott Armstrong about shame, masculinity and why asking for help once felt like admitting weakness. They explore the pressure men can put on themselves to appear successful, the danger of constantly saying “I’m fine”, and what can happen when identity, brotherhood and community disappear.

Nick also confronts a more complicated side of endurance sport. Physical challenge became an escape and, at times, a form of punishment. His relationship with it has since changed. After completing a 230km ultramarathon through the Amazon rainforest, he began thinking less about collecting medals and more about purpose, values and what difficult challenges could mean beyond himself.

Now he is preparing for an extraordinary 1,700km journey through Albania, Greece and Turkey, linking two ultramarathons and raising awareness and funds around suicide prevention and veterans’ mental health. But this conversation is ultimately about much more than running. It is about what happens after rock bottom, why the “lone wolf” ideal can leave men dangerously isolated, how we redefine success when money and status stop being enough, and why sometimes recovery begins with one conversation and one step forward.

As Nick puts it, “everyone’s going through something.”

His message is simple: do not let shame stop you reaching out. Having the conversation can itself be empowering.

Chapters

00:00 The 1,700km challenge: why Nick is running from Albania to Turkey
04:15 From soldier and oil broker to a search for purpose
08:13 Rock bottom: “I felt trapped by this invisible force”
10:57 Shame, weakness and why asking for help felt so difficult
16:37 When endurance became punishment, and how that changed
23:21 Young men, masculinity and the search for identity and belonging
28:29 Losing the uniform, becoming a “lone wolf” and finding community again
34:46 Money, status and the arrival fallacy: redefining success
40:54 Why lone wolves still need a pack
49:14 What does a real man look like? Courage, action and doing the work

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Realize that this whole facade of people living their best life and whatever is happening on social media and the assumptions that we make on of each other every time we meet someone isn't necessarily real. Yeah, everyone's going through something. So don't be ashamed. Don't feel like you have to hold yourself back from others because they're going to deride you or make you feel small or make you feel weak. Because ultimately, if there is someone that is treating you like that, then they're an anomaly. And there are plenty of people out there that have been through the same stuff that you've been through. And to have that conversation is going to be empowering us.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Welcome back to the mental space. Now, you know when you see those people who are taking on incredible challenges, and sometimes you think, why on earth are they putting themselves through that? Well, today I'm joined by one such inspiring individual. Uh Nick Coates is going to be running 1,700 kilometers, I believe, across four continents, three countries, to raise awareness and funds for suicide prevention, uh, particularly among military veterans. But today, Nick and I are going to get into mental health in general, men's mental health, and his lived experience. And from the start of it, look, I've got some inkling on how you feel. Because I'm 53 years old and I've been watching the World Cup and I'm absolutely bloody shattered by all these late nights. Uh but 1,700 kilometres. I mean, that sounds absolutely immense. How are you feeling about it first? When are you doing this? When's this happening?

SPEAKER_01 1:33

September, I'm going to be kicking off. Um, and that is gonna start off with a 100 kilometre ultra marathon that is organized. Um, it's called the Ultra for Charity. Um, it was set up by some X Forces guys. Um, and they run four ultras around the world um annually. Yeah, um, the first one was in Tunisia, and the second one is gonna be in Albania, and that's the one I'm gonna be doing. Um, and that is gonna be raising directly for four uh veterans' charities, as you alluded to there, supporting uh veterans' mental health, well-being, um, and um and also serving individuals as well. Yeah. Um I served as a uh a soldier for seven years um with the Royal Regiment of Scotland, uh, and that was a big part of my life. Um so I wanted to do something big and I wanted to, you know, do something for a community that uh was such a big part of my life and uh part of my family life as well. So that's part of the reason why I sort of kicked off with uh the ultra for charity there. Um and then connected to together with an ultra marathon that I've wanted to do for a long time in Capitol Cia in Turkey and the beautiful historic uh UNESCO World Heritage Site. You know, you've seen the images of the hot air balloons at sunrise, um, and it's a probably beautiful place to run. So I've always wanted to do that one as well. I looked at those two ultra marathons and thought, I wonder if I could actually do a link them together uh on foot. And um by a quick look on Google Maps and a quick look at the time frame, I decided it was possible. Um so yeah, that's how it all came together. Um bit of a back of the fag packet planning. Um and then now I'm looking at it in more detail. Yeah um the elevation is pretty pretty substantial. Um the mileage is probably higher than I anticipated in the first place. Um but I'm committed to give it a go. Um, whatever happens, um that is that is the goal.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

I mean, it sounds just such an incredible thing. And you say so you basically you took two ultramarathons and you decided you'd just walk between them rather walk and run between them. How long is this journey going to take you, do you think? It has to be done in 40 days.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

40 days. Um because the ultramarathon um in in Capitosia uh is got a uh registration time um on the I think it's the Friday evening, and then the Saturday morning 0700. I'll be stepping across a start line of a 119 kilometer um single stage race, which is a cutoff time of 24 hours. Um, and that's got over 3,700 meters of ascent in that race itself. So that is the finish line, so to speak. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

So just just to sum this up, you're gonna run a hundred kilometers in a race. In two days, in two days, then you're gonna walk around 1500 run more than it's gonna be more than it's gonna be 1,600. 1600 kilometres, and then your reward for that is to do another hundred kilometre race. Yes. So let's get down to this then. I mean, you've got some very personal reasons that are driving you to do this. Um just just share with us because I know uh one aspect of it is raising money for the military veterans, but you wanted to take out a wider message as well about mental health and in and in particular men's mental health. Where is this inspiration or awareness or desire to kind of raise that message and raise that awareness come from, Nick?

SPEAKER_01 4:50

I mean, it's it's an interesting one. I've always really um enjoyed pushing myself physically, I've always enjoyed adventure and travel and and understanding the purpose behind these things as well. Why do people go and do extremely challenging things? It could be a run, it could be rowing an ocean, it could be um long triathlons, it could be hundreds of triathlons. You see these guys going out there doing these incredible feats of human endurance, and but you can't just get out of bed and say, Hey, I'm gonna do that today. Some people do, but the the purpose is the most important part of that. Um, and this all links back to about two years, just over two years ago. Um, I was currently at that point working as an oil broker. Okay. Um, that was the career I decided to pursue directly after leaving the military. Um, and straight up I pursued that career because I wanted to make more money. Um and after a while, something was missing. Um something wasn't quite aligned. Um, I didn't feel like it was aligned to what I wanted to achieve in my life. I felt like I was giving up quite a lot um to be sat at that desk to try and stack up more dollars. Um and after a while I I realized that it was actually impacting me in quite a negative way. Um and I felt like there was a lot of behaviors I weren't wasn't particularly proud of um creeping into my life um and starting to affect me um uh you know um in my mindset. Um I felt quite angry, um, lashing out a lot, getting a lot of arguments with my um my wife at the time. Um and it I started to feel quite alone in my job, felt quite alone in my relationship, um, and felt that, you know, had this this this overwhelming feeling of what if what if I have to do this for another five years? What if I have to do this for another ten years? Right. And that prospect was weighing on me really, really heavily. Um but during that time I felt like I needed an outlet. So I started to coach people um and started to interact with people in that way again in in in terms of self-improvement, self-uh, you know, personal development, um physical development. Um quickly became qualified as a personal trainer um and then did a coaching qualification with To Be Limitless. Um and Peter Turner and the team at To Be Limitless, absolutely excellent. Um and uh during the time I was doing my performance coaching uh uh qualification with them, I asked to speak to Peter um afterwards um privately. And during that 10-15 minutes discussion, just his ability to give me some time um and and and presence for me to to explore how I was feeling, I quickly realized uh a big decision had to be made. I was deeply dissatisfied with my job. Um I was holding my emotions, ex uh my emotions extremely close to the surface and um it was clear that I had to make a decision um uh to do the thing that was right for me in that time. Um I found it really hard to make that decision because I felt it's all as external pressure, um expectations, um, feelings of failure, feelings of um external validation, uh feelings that I had to make a success or something, even if I didn't want to actually do that anymore. Um so all of these things were bubbling to the surface. So he gave me the the he gave me that space to explore that. And um I I I I at that point I decided I was gonna have a conversation with my boss. I put my hand up and I said, I'm going for a really challenging time mentally, and I think I need some time off. Um and Andrew um, you know, absolutely massive kudos to him because he supported me in that. He said, What do you need? Um and yeah, it felt great, but it felt like a almost like a pressure in that moment was lifted off my shoulders that I could go away and just have that time just to, you know, have some time to myself. Um but yeah, just just after that conversation happened, I was I remember the moment vividly, I was at my desk um and I don't know what happened, but just two weeks prior to uh me departing on my trip away, that month that I'd be given off by my work, um it I don't know, it felt like this incredible pressure in my head. Um and it was overbearing to the point that I just felt like there was I I felt trapped. I felt trapped by this invisible force. Um and it it it was a very, very lonely moment. Um and I would never want to say that I would uh I would have hurt myself, but I I at that moment I felt like something had really shifted like horribly in the wrong direction. And that at that point I I needed to do something drastic about it. But that was really two weeks before I actually was going to depart on this trip. So I caught it, I feel, just in time. Was enough to get the ball rolling in the right direction for me to make start making decisions for myself on what was right for me in that moment rather than the external pressures that I was experiencing.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

I think there'll be lots of uh people in the in this region, particularly uh expats, who will resonate with what you're saying, because uh obviously about 90% of us here in the UE have come primarily for career and for work. Yeah. And our continued um stay in what is you know an amazing country uh very much depends on us making it success of our jobs. Um so I think there'll be lots of particularly men who will resonate with how you're feeling because we all have those, you know, those pressures, those responsibilities, whether it be to school fees or you know, um rent, mortgage, uh all those things, you know, as well as the work pressures. But just take me back to that moment where you were you were feeling lonely or when it was building up. What was it that was stopping you from reaching out? You said you were incredibly lonely, um, your relationship with your wife was you know struggling. Um I you you didn't feel that you could open up to her about it? What was it that uh that was holding you back from kind of having that conversation? Because we often say it mental, like you know, A, you're not alone, uh, and B just talk, find somebody to talk to. But they but both of those realizations can be really difficult.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

What was it for you when in that space where you're going, I I can't, you know?

SPEAKER_01 11:23

It's an interesting one, isn't it, Scott? You're you're absolutely right because you know, one of the one of the messages I wanted to deliver with this challenge is that you are not alone. And that is because I felt that profound moment there. I I I I I felt pretty um embarrassed. I felt embarrassed. Um I think was probably one of the things. Why? Um I don't know, these expectations on my own self. Um I I'm I'm I'm pretty tough on myself. Um and I I I didn't want to show um weakness um was probably an element of it. Um and that might sound strange. Is it weak to to go and look out for help?

SPEAKER_00 12:01

And I Well, uh let me I'm uh uh because of my ADHD, I am an interrupter, but I just want to stay with that. Why did you define that as weakness at that stage? What was it about it that seemed weak to you?

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Um because other people I knew um in in in in similar job roles were making a great success of it and obviously thriving on the external side of it.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Um and I I felt that I I I I couldn't and I didn't want to to a certain degree as well. Um But also I my my parents they loved me very much, they've been supporters throughout my whole whole life. Um but also I didn't want to put them in a position of worry or or fear, I suppose, in that moment that I wasn't in a uh a good position. Um even when I took that time off, um, I was probably pretty pretty shallow in how I described why I'd taken that time off. Okay. Um I didn't go into the full details with the people that mattered the most around me. Um and I held those cards quite close to my chest and and and I I suppose there's a uh an element of protectionism as well, protecting myself, protecting my own ego, I suppose, as well. Um and and this element of of shame, I suppose, as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Tell me more about that, because that is a bit I and I am literally no stranger to shame. It's been my operating system for many decades since I was a child. But why did you feel shame? Because uh it is such a toxic word for for for all of us. Um men really seem to to struggle with this concept of shame. What was shameful?

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Yeah, I mean, I suppose it's that that perception of failure um that I wanted to give that that that yeah, that that front, that mask, um, and keep that mask up that everything was good. Yeah, everything's fine. You know, it was a classic from school days um up until um up until those moments, I was the the first person to say everything is fine. When actually underneath that comment, I'm swimming in my mind. Um lots of things going on. I wasn't a particularly good good boy at school. My fair fair few scrapes, um, and also in my and and also in my life um past school as well. You know, um I would get in trouble um unfortunately with with drink, alcohol, uh, drugs, and um, and also with um with with the with the police in a couple of scenarios as well. Um and it would be a case of uh just brush it under the carpet and say everything is fine. Um and yeah, it was always you know the the chap that wants to you know get the drunkest will will be out the longest. And um it would end up often resulting in in in in pretty tricky situations. Um and yeah, something under the surface there wasn't fine, um, I think when I was growing up. Um and I think uh some of those elements followed me through into my adult life. Now I'm 39 years old. Um and looking back at some of those moments and under trying to understand a little bit more about who I was in those moments, what it was to drive me towards those positions of risk taking um and and danger. Um, and also um to understand now how how that sort of acts on me as as the man I am today. Um so trying to understand how these elements make uh make make up make us up as people, um, but also to understand what might trigger those behaviours and and how to communicate that more clearly to the people around me.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Yeah. You used an interesting turn of phrase there where you said, what was driving you towards these behaviours? Yeah. Were you being driven towards them or were you running away from something, you know, deeper inside?

SPEAKER_01 15:43

So it's a hard one to understand, and it's something that I'm trying to gain more understanding of as well. Yeah. Um I wouldn't profess to say I know myself entirely yet. And um I think we we're just having scaping there's like, who are you? Um but what I what I have quickly come to understand about myself is that physical challenge and training and adventure puts me in this in this uh in this space of enjoyment and flow. And um I think there's something quite simply, you know, the the the simple brutality behind um ultra and and running and physical training and how it can just connect you right in that moment rather than worrying what might be happening in the future or what might be happening in the past, um, is running that kilometer you're in um and purely focusing on on the task at hand. Um and I love that simplicity in that journey.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Um interesting. Um, because it I and we do sometimes see like I mean, exercise in general that the clinicians will tell us is incredibly good for your mental health. We do see some, you know, ultra athletes actually they are almost hiding in the physical to stay away from the mental. What's interesting about you is you go you're embarking on this journey on both fronts, both as as as physical but also as a mental challenge.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

That shifted massively, that shifted for me. That is only a relatively recent um realization of how one connects to the other. Yeah. I used to use it as a vehicle of punishment, um, I would say to a certain degree. I used to just beast myself, you know, hard, you know, and I'll train hard every single day, um, to the point of I don't know, keeping something at bay or or what was it? Um who knows? I'm not gonna I'm not gonna psychoanalyse myself at this point, but it's it it my my uh my my relationship with it has started to shift. Yeah, definitely a challenge junkie. So I went from one like one extreme to another, you know, and it became very click quick to collection of of of of medals, which don't mean anything to me. Um and that's where I started to really understand the purpose, purpose behind things, yeah, and how actually less is more sometimes, and really understanding what it is is driving me, what is the message I want to deliver with the challenges that I that I conduct and how I can utilize that to give back as well, um, as well as um um experience something for myself. And a big understanding of that came from when I did the jungle ultra last year, um it was a 230-kilometer ultra marathon um through the Amazon rainforest. And it was a pretty, pretty massive undertaking. It was an incredible race. Um, but it takes so many boxes for me. Um, travel, adventure, something new, being surrounded by like-minded people, um, and pushing myself physically in nature. Um and all of these things are very uh close to my sort of values and and and um and uh what I want to experience in my life. So being strong, being fit allows me to do these things and access these environments where I feel like I'm absolutely flowing at my best. Um and the work that went into up until that point um was extremely rewarding. The discipline, um, the courage to take something on like that, the discipline to stay the course with the training and the nutrition and everything that's required to keep yourself ready for one of these things, and then the resilience to to go through that, the mental and the physical resilience required to go through something like this. Um and it wasn't picked out of random. I used to pick, I used to go on on websites and go, right, I'm signing up to that one, signing up to that one, signing up to that one, and then just do them back to back to the point that it was probably having a more detriment to me than it actually benefits. Um and in an environment like Dubai where there's so many shiny things out there, it's very easy to do those things and just keep on just pushing yourself through these challenges all the time. However, this one, when I got to that point and I I completed that race and and had a very good result for it, even though I wasn't going out to compete, it was it was going out to compete against myself and find out something about myself and find out where my limit was, came off the back of that and realized that I was capable of so much more. Um and not just from a physical standpoint, but from from my my personal life and my uh and my professional life as well. Um, and how I can and and that realization of what can I do to bring those all together um to to to create a life that I'm truly proud of and and and happy to live on a on a day-to-day basis rather than being forced or pressured into something that doesn't align with me.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

I mean, so much to kind of dive into and unpack there. Um I I I I love the language that you're using there, because I mean I you we we if we talk where you started, you know, you were at a desk, you were behind a desk, you didn't feel fulfilled, you you just felt something like the matrix, you know, something was wrong. You weren't quite sure what it was. But it's interesting that you've gone from from that to then you've gone to running and punishing yourself and getting shiny medals that didn't mean anything to now finding a purpose and how important that purpose is because it's turning what is you know um some and also the language you use about it now. You know, you you talked about I was punishing myself to now the flip side of that, I have a purpose and I'm doing something I can be proud of. But have you have you noticed that shift in yourself from the the person from that shame to pride in a way that which is there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but actually being able to take something away from what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Yeah, yes, I think so. Um and you know, honestly, I I I can look at this, I can look at this challenge in in many different ways. Sometimes I'll wake up in a cold sweat thinking about it and saying, Why in the hell am I doing this? Yeah. Um, and then other days I'm extremely excited when I'm having that conversation with people and they they they turn around and say, Yeah, I mean, that's something that I've gone through myself and something I've experienced as well. It's like, okay, there is there is There is something behind this. Um, and being on the road day in, day out, I think is the perfect like endurance sports for me is a is a metaphor for life. You know, it's gonna be you you are gonna have ups, you're gonna have downs, you're gonna have amazing days that you just think this is the easiest, best thing you've ever done, and then about an hour from then, then you're sat on your ass.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

I'm not sure that's ever going to on earth.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

What on earth am I even doing here? Um, and it's those moments where you decide to continue on that journey when everything else is telling you not to. Um, and I think that is the the the the the most direct the most direct um um correlation between when you're feeling your lowest um from a mental health perspective to when you're feeling low on a on on an ultramarathon or or something the equivalent is the ability to write, say, right, fine, we're here where we are now, understand, take stock, just need to get up, take that one step forwards, and and and hopefully in time it will start to stack, it will start to compound. Um, much like how we bring this how we hang on this conversation right now. I had an image I had this vision in my mind that I would be able to talk with someone like yourself, Scott, and and and discuss this and bring this conversation to light. Um and by having conversations, by talking about what I'm doing, here we are sat with each other. And hopefully the message will reach someone that needs to hear that message that A, you're not alone, and B, if you just get up and take one step forwards, you might be able to make a difference.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

It seems that your story, well, it seems to me at least that your story is particularly relevant right now. I mean, you if we go back to that that naughty boy, that uh that that teenager that was getting into scraps, that was angry, that um felt but was feeling shame that wasn't actually confronting it, dealing with it, almost unaware of it in some ways, you know, being driven to these things. If we look at the our young people today, one uh really high rate of suicide amongst young young men, but also we have the rise of the manosphere. Yeah. And I'm just yeah, you talked, you said just a moment ago how important it was for you to be around like-minded individuals and and part of that community. Um, if we go back to the the lonely Nick, we look back to the angry Nick, we go back to the Nick that was getting in trouble all the time. What's your you know, when you look at young guys today, because you would be a prime example, fit, not bad looking, uh but you know, uh, and also um yeah, adventurous, brave, courageous, um, uh ex-army soldier. Um where do you think uh young guys are being led astray, or this whole idea of what you know, what a man is, because you're sitting here talking about your mental health, you're talking about the shame, you're talking about this idea that it was weakness when we both know actually it's not, it is actually you know, it takes a lot of courage to actually have the kind of conversation you're having right now. So for for young men right now, when you look at them, I mean, if they listen to this, because you say you hope that this message lands with someone who needs to hear it, yeah. It feels like there's quite a lot of young men out there, particularly those who, you know, um choose to take their own lives or or thinking, or in that space where you were, where you would just, you know, oh, everything is wrong. Yeah. What's your message to them? Or what is yeah, again, to go back to that, where's where's the disconnect?

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Where will we possibly it's a it's a it's a very it's a very tough question to to answer. Um I can only answer it from a position of my own experience and who I've worked with and and in in different contexts. Um I was a boarding school from an early age, from eight years old um up until I was 18 years old. Um I was part of um cadet organizations. Um I then joined the officer training corps when I was at university. Um, and then when I um went through Sanderson and joined the military, um, I was a platoon commander at uh the infantry training center, uh where we were responsible for training infantry recruits. Anything from the age uh any the the lads there were 17 years old up until about 34 were the were the eldest recruits I uh I dealt with. Um and yeah, you you've got a a broad range of backgrounds there. Yes. Some of the soldiers were from uh from one was next convox, um, as being reintegrated back in. So you've gone from one extreme to people that are there voluntarily and that had it all uh you know, wanted to do that for their whole life and had that idea of joining military as a career. Multi-generation, multi-generation, multi-gener, multi-generation, but different backgrounds, yeah, different locations all around the UK. Um and you know, what was the underlying thing there? That they wanted to lean into challenge, they wanted to have that right of passage to a certain degree. Um, and I think in a lot of places around the world now, we don't have that same right of passage that was instilled in young men from an earlier age. Right or wrong, I'm not here to debate that. But what it does give you is a um uh a structure, values, standards, a brotherhood around you um that could support you through those moments. Um and yes, um the the the the armed forces um have a uh uh a huge amount of of suicides, um, suffer many people suffer from PTSD, et cetera. Um but that's not the be all and end all of a mental mental health thing. When you're stepping away from organizations like that, that is when we start to lose elements of um identity, brotherhood, values, standards, these things that hold communities together, um, whether it's from a religious aspect, whether it's from a schooling aspect, whether it's from a parental aspect, whether it's from a military organization or any other organization might instill similar values for you to lead by or to to fall back on when things when things get tough. If those elements aren't there or explored, then it becomes quite hard for young men, I'm saying from perspective and women as well, of course, um, to to to to see where that guiding, where is that guiding hand when things are when things are when things are getting tough. I was when I left the military, I went lone wolf. Like I was trained by myself, I went to work, um, you know, it was a case of a very competitive environment where you know you're competing against your fellow brokers, you're competing against other broking shops, um, you're trying to get the deal, you're trying to get that done. Um, and then pushing myself physically as well is that energy, energy, energy all in one direction. And it's like everyone else out there is the enemy, and I'm out there trying to try to win. Um that was that became difficult, and I started to realize something like hard, something was very much missing. And it's very easy to pay lip service to that. But when you literally don't have the uniform anymore, you're not part of that organization surrounded by those like-minded people, then suddenly it the world becomes a bit of a lonely place. It wasn't after until after a while, until after I went through this uh element of time that I would sort of describe as rock bottom, um, that I started to reach out to men's organizations. Um there's some really good groups out there in the UA and Dubai in particular that I've experienced. Um Mennathon, one I'm part of now, um, and um the other one is the Manco project, which have both been set up to bring men together into an environment where they can challenge themselves physically and also have open conversations in a judgment-free environment. So by leaning into those uh environments, and uh I'm a coach as well, and having these conversations with the men I'm coaching as well, you can start to um realize that this whole facade of people living their best life and whatever is happening on social media and the assumptions that we make on of each other every time we meet someone isn't necessarily real. Yeah. And everyone, as you said at the beginning, when we're having a conversation just now, everyone's going through something. Um so don't be ashamed. Don't feel like you have to hold yourself back from others because they're going to deride you or or or or or or make you feel small or make you feel weak. Because ultimately, if there is someone that is treating you like that, then they're an anomaly. Um and there are plenty of people out there that have been through the same stuff that you've been through, and to have that conversation is going to be empowering in its own right.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

I've always loved the phrase. Um I'm just interested to get your take on it, which was the I'm not who I think I am. I'm not who you think I am, I am who I think you think I am. So I'm creating a story in my head about how Nick perceives Scott. You know, uh how many people do you think are living that way as opposed to I am who I think I am?

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Yeah, too many, unfortunately. And it goes back to that thing of who do you speak to the most in a day, and it's to yourself and how that internal dialogue can either be something that is extremely positive and drive you towards the things that you want to achieve and experience in this life and the relationships that you want to have in this life, or it drives you into this spiral of looking outwards and and and feeling judged and not wanting to do the things you really want to do just in case I fail. And what are the perceptions here? I've been there, I've experienced it, and it's a it's a it's a very limiting place to be. It can be a very angry place to be as well. Um, and but when we start to focus on what we want to do, um I was a little bit embarrassed at the beginning. Like, I wanted to be a coach, I wanted to be a trainer, you know, all of this sort of stuff. I went from you know from from the from the job that people want to to to to to to training people. And initially I was like a little bit, I don't know, it just felt it just felt like I was like, am I really allowed to go and do this? Like it sounded it seemed feels it felt so strange, but it it didn't it took me some time to sit on a Thai beach and actually look at some people living the life how exactly they wanted to do, do some crazy ecstatic dance. Not my not my cup of tea, but seeing how they were so free in themselves and and not caring about the people around them, that it's like that's where you start to feel that peace and happiness in your own journey rather than worry about other people's.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

I mean, I look if I looked at my dad, and anyone who's been following the mental space knows that you know one of the things that inspired me to start this project in the first place was that he basically drank himself to death and couldn't talk about his feelings. I I I've long recognized that I mean his generation were the first generation that where advertising became a really big thing, consumerism, you know, TV advertising, and this whole message that the acquisition of physical things are the things that are going to fill your soul. You know, and he got to that point where he was the company director and he didn't want for money and he had the the big car and he had the house, um, you know, and he had two marriages, the second one better than the first, but none of that fulfilled him, never found purpose. Um I still think when we look at Instagram, you know, if we look at the whole influencers, um, there is still this isn't it great to have all these physical things? And where's the distinction? Because I imagine as an oil broker and a young guy, uh physically fit, you did yeah, you probably invested in the watches or maybe had the car.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Well, yeah, I mean I spent too much money on things that I didn't need or want. Um, and there's no doubt about it, I put myself into some debt. Um, and for what I don't I I I I still don't know to this day. Um and you know, it's it's why when you talk about just trying to find figure out the drivers. I don't I don't know. Um again, it depends on who you surround yourself, yeah. You know, I suppose. Um and when that's the the the the top of conversation, when that's the talk, and um yeah, it's it's yeah, it I suppose that's how how these things can creep up, and you're you're trying to pay that keep up game. Yeah. Um which you know is for some people and no judgment, that's uh that's absolutely fine.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

But you say that I mean you reminded me of that scene with um you know from American Psycho where they've examining the business card.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

You know, like um and and and and that's it as well. But I you know the ex I had the same experience with races and competing in races, you know, is you write the same the same feeling of the arrival fallacy. And people talk about it in the endurance community as well. People talk about it in um in terms of the pursuit of of the job, the the title, the whatever it might be. And when you actually get there, that fulfillment is actually quite hollow and it doesn't last for very long. And I have no doubt in my mind that I'll experience that at the end of this journey. But it's not about the is I I I would always say it's not about the the the end of the road. It is the work itself is where the satisfaction is. And if you're driving towards that work that is very much aligned to what you want to do and what you see as your values, uh the people around you, and and and and and how you want to sort of pursue that, then that is the purest form of of of of satisfaction or success. If you're doing that on a daily basis, is that not success enough? When you're constantly trying to go for something, then when it when it gets into your hands, it's like sand, it slips through, and it's the next thing.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Again, so much to to dive into there. Who defines success for you now? Because it again feels like you know, you you were talking about external validation, and that's something that I've struggled with or or or needed to or desperately wanted for many, many decades of my life. Um how do you define success versus how perhaps Nick five years ago, before you went on this journey, how's that definition of success, what success looks like?

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Nick now is a lot more, is a lot happier and a lot more at peace than I was five years ago. That's for sure. It was that constant pursuit of more. And the nature of my job was a pursuit of more. And so that was numbers in a bank account, that was assets, and all those things are smaller now. But I feel a hell of a lot more content and a lot more at peace in myself for going after something that I really want to explore. I I think success is for me the the fact I have to pinch myself sometimes, the fact that I can actually take five weeks off of continuous movement across three countries that I have never really explored before, two of them I've never been to at all, northern Greece I've never visited. And to be able to get up every day and not have to worry about going to the office or or or do that, and it might seem extreme to some people to do this, but ultimately for me, like to be able to do that for that continuous amount of time is is is a success in its own right for me in that in that regard, because it aligns so closely to what I want to experience. I want to experience challenge, I want to experience new places, I want to speak to random people on the road, and and that will be uh a beautiful experience, but a brutal experience at the same time. And yeah, I mean, the parameters for success of of my personal life, my professional life, they're all sort of different, and I'm still trying to figure that out. What does that look like? But ultimately, I don't think if you if you if you can't be happy in what you're doing right now in this moment or at peace in what you're trying to pursue, then then that that that sort of idea of success will will be much harder to achieve because it will always move as as you grow and as you move as well.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

One of my second favourite phrases is is that, and I I think it was in a book called Um oh I I can't even remember the book now, uh, but it was like um Memories or Memoirs of a Psychotherapist. And and basically he came to Ruin and said 99% of people live their life either in the past or in the future. And only 1% of people um you know live in the present, and neither exist. The past is gone, you can't go back there. The future is yet to happen. You can influence it, but you can't control it. But we seem to you know seem to ha besold this idea that somehow we can control the future. Um where are you? Are you one of the one percent now or no?

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Far from it. Uh far from it. Um I I spend a lot of time thinking about things that I've done in the past that I'm not not not happy about, or maybe in in some elements um pretty embarrassed about or whatever. You know, we've we've all done stuff. I think a large part of me was hanging on to so many things. You know, unfortunately, my uh yeah, I I I uh end up getting divorced and that was a that was a big part of like, I don't know, you know, worrying about the future and and living too much in the past, I suppose, and not really focusing on what was in front of me. Um and I think that goes for so many out there. Um and even the even when you're in the e even when you're trying to be in the present, there's so much of that uh the the the future and the and the past creeping into that present, it really narrows it down sometimes. Um and I have to keep reminding myself of why I do what I do now in comparison to what I used to do. Um and that helps me enjoy it a lot more. And sometimes it's like, oh god, I can't be bothered with this, you know, in a few hours of God, you've got to go eat working with clients, and it's it's hard work, you know, working with people one-to-one um in that environment. Um and it's long hours and it's early hours. But then when I get there and I have those conversations with the guys and girls that I train, um with whoever it is I'm coaching, it's like just take a moment to be in that moment with that person, understand that person the best you can, um, and and and yeah, and just and just enjoy the moments as they come. I'm trying to be a lot more present with that sort of sort of stuff. But it's still a hundred percent working process.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

I was gonna say, you I mean you talked about the shame and you talked about not being proud of things. Have you forgiven yourself yet? Or how how are you working through the ground? It says like you were you unconsciously were punishing yourself, but now you have the purpose.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

Yeah, it's it's understanding um what the what what my what my triggers are uh and what leads to some things that I've you know uh done. Um and why why does it why do you go to those moments? Um you know, why do you go into that sort of like that doom scrolling to the point? Why do you go to that like catastrophizing in your head? Why do you go to those moments of like um just like frantic energy, feeling like you know, overwhelmed by everything? What is pushing you into those directions and what is pushing you into the other directions of the feeling light and happy and enjoying the moment and being focused on that moment and trying to seek more of those moments rather than the the behaviours that will lead down the path of of those those more introspective thoughts and the thoughts of what happened and what will happen and let's go back to the concept of I mean you talked about brotherhood, you talked about structure as well, but particularly for young people.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

I I I mean I I I totally agree with you, even though you know whether it be religion or whether it be whatever it is, you know, scouts, you know the army, there's just so less of this, and it's being replaced with this thing that's not actually real. Um let's just talk about very, very quickly the difficulty you struggled with because you had a brotherhood and then you left the brotherhood. Yeah. Um that lack of community, that isolation, how did that impact you? You said you were a lone wolf, which sounds kind of glamorous, and you know, and yeah, I remember the I remember the 1980s, you probably won't remember the 1980s, but he's a lone wolf. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, uh it almost sounds cool, but what's hard about being a lone wolf?

SPEAKER_01 41:29

There is an element of isolation behind it, and a lone wolf uh isn't a good thing because the the wolves operate in packs, right? And um yeah, and and we are we need community um as human beings. And living as an expat, lived in Singapore for five years, lived in Dubai now for five years, um it's important to connect with the people around you. Um yes, there is this element of transient nature that people will come and people will go, um but ultimately you know, we've got to try our best while there's people are around. Um and you see that a lot here, you know, people are seeking to be parts of communities, running communities, fitness communities, um, networking communities, whatever it is, just to just to be surrounded by people that, you know, if you do want to have that conversation with someone, then you know, then then you can. And also, you know, end up introductions, introductions to people that might support you in business, introductions to so many people that have helped fundraise for me for for what it is I'm doing now. Um Introductions to people like yourself so we can have a conversation and spread the message further. You can't do this stuff by yourself. You are the strength of the people around you. We are stronger together. So, you know, and we're all muddling through this game the best we can. And no one's got it all figured out, and you can give as much as you can take. Um, and I think that's the most important thing is to try and go out there and give back to the people around you that that would will benefit from from your experience and the way I can benefit from your experience and and and and vice versa. But you winning isn't taken away from me. And me winning is not taking away from me. And I've been to that point, and it's a this is just a nasty, shitty place to be, you know. Um so yeah, more of that.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Let's finish on community as well. I think we'll carry on there, like you know, what it actually gives you, because you've you've you've known the loss, you've been the lone wolf, um, and as you say, people are supposed to be impact. I think really right now we have the the slogan do buy it, you know. Um and a lot of people are united around that. I had a fascinating fascinating um encounter the other day. I walked into spinning, start chatting with the young lad, security guard. Turns out he's from Kenya. I went to Kenya last year, beautiful country, all that kind of thing. Lovely lad. I I've known him for a while. We just say a hi to each other, but he's the security guard in the supermarket. So I get talking to Kareem. It turns out 'cause I'm a former journalist, he's actually, you know, got a degree and a master's in journalism and PR, and his dream is to work in PR and journalism. So I put one thing, I put a little post, a picture of him on LinkedIn. Just saying to community, everyone has a dream, everyone has a story. This is this is Kareem. Um, with a picture of him in his uniform and a picture of him AI generated as a as a as an exec, you know, as an advertising. So much reaction in the community. And it actually feels like uh it gave me some real heart that actually, as you say, if someone wins, it doesn't take away from me. But deep down, we we actually all want ourselves to thrive, particularly right now. You know, obviously there's a lot of crap going on in the world, but it's so nice, like literally like 70,000 reactions, people offering to give him internships and that kind of thing. So it shows you the power of community when you when you take the time just to lean in and pay attention to it.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

Yeah, yeah, no, it it you're absolutely right. And um, you know, a place like Dubai is is is is very much about that. You've got so many people working that are tired, tirelessly working to to to to give us the city that people love to live in. Um and that that goes from the delivery drivers to the construction workers to every single person out there that is working tirelessly um to to keep this place going, to build it, to to to to keep improving it, um, towards that vision. And um yeah, we need to take more moments to to understand that we're all part of this city and community, um, rather than just squeezing it for what we can to do whatever we want to do with it. Um and that as you say, with is it to buy it? To to buy it, yeah. It's like a verb now, to do it. It means it me it means something to everyone in their own right.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

It's ambition, it's dream, it's vision, it's yeah, it's yeah, but it's purpose, I think.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

Yeah, and it and and and that's it, it's purpose. And it offers so much, you know. If you're if you are into your running, if you are into your fitness, you can be up there beautiful early morning, five o'clock in the morning, down up and down Kai Beach by the sea. You can be up in the mountains. I know people in the trail running community that are up at 2 a.m. most weekends to go and run in the mountains. Um, and then you've got everyone else, you know, that is there doing whatever it is that that that helps them tick. Um, but all towards you know, building a life around this, this, this, this place, um, and and what that can bring. Um, and community is so important. Um, absolutely it is. And I think what what's recently been happening um with the Iran conflict um and and how that has impacted um the UAE um and how people banded together um in in times of uncertainty to to to show that resilience of the community um and to to to be fend the defended by the the the the the um UAE armed forces to give us that feeling of safety that we could continue to operate um the way we wanted to.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

You see so many more flags, so many more flags drape from houses and yeah, and it was it's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

I'll just I'll just I'll just I'll just highlight this point because the there was an article on on Instagram from the national that very kindly covered the story of what I'm doing. And there's a comment there that talks about um is this of national interest? And I was interested by that comment, and um and I was like, what do you mean is this of national interest? And um and I I I commented back saying, well, mental health, physical wellness and and and mental fitness is is 100% part of national interest because what makes up a nation, what makes up a community is people. And if we've got unwell, unhappy people, it it makes the whole system um strain. So that's why it's so important to understand as corporate teams, to understand as members of the community what is going on with us on an individual basis. Look out for the people left and right of us to support each other through that. It doesn't matter what your job is, it doesn't matter who you are, we are still human beings and we still deserve to have that support when we need it the most. And we deserve to have that time if we're going through a tough time to to to to to to work on it, whether that's a daily basis, communities or or or corporates giving their people more time to look at.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

Well, this is something, this is something obviously we're very obsessed with at the mental. I but to to dial into what you were saying there, I mean, if you think about it in a national interest, I mean the UE government is actually taking quite a lot of steps, you know, new mental health law, which makes it illegal for employees to discriminate against against employees with mental health conditions. There's a big new mental health strategy, there's all sorts of new standards of care that are being introduced all the time. So the the government's on that road, and we've seen, you know, even changing the definition of what mental health should be. And that is not just the lack of mental illness. Um, whereas we we I think the corporate sector is yet to catch up. Yes. Um, and I think the corporate sector's yet to understand the real value of people thriving.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

Yeah, yeah, and and I think that's an empower, uh that's an extremely powerful thing to explore more, you know. And if you're if you're watching this and you're you're uh a business owner or business leader, it is absolutely your responsibility to give your people that time to look after themselves in a physical way because that has such a uh direct impact on their mental well-being and how they perform generally across their lives. So, yeah, that's important. So when this chap jumps into the messages and he talks about is this of national interest? Yes, it is of national interest. And um, and and if it inspires one person just to swing their legs out of bed that morning to go for a first 5k run or go to the gym or whatever it might be, and just to start to feel that that energy come back, that empowerment that you know um to and how that can impact other areas of life, then I've won. Um if it if it encourages someone to reach out for help who's really, really struggling, then amazing. That if it's just one person, then I won. And it'll be worth every single step of this journey just to um pass that message on.

SPEAKER_00 49:49

I could talk to you literally all day. Um, and I would. Um just to wrap up uh to sort of almost quickfire questions. And the first one is is actually like one of the most difficult questions out there right now, which is what does a real man look like?

SPEAKER_01 50:04

Firstly, I'm not very good at quickfire, I don't I talk way too much. Um no judgment here.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

Is anyone who listens to the podcast will understand?

SPEAKER_01 50:15

Yeah, exactly. Um someone that can lead themselves. I think self-leadership is such an important thing. Um it's responsibility, it's taking responsibility for yourself, it's taking responsibility for the people around you, um, and it's leading yourself from uh uh uh uh from with purpose. Um not just expecting everything to land on your lap, to to to to car shade on others or to to blame um or to bitch and moan. Um look, at the end of the day, we're all going through shit. Yeah. And just take control of it yourself. You know, if you look in the mirror and you're unhappy with the way you look, do something about it. If you're unhappy with something that's going on in your relationship, have that conversation. If you're unhappy with something that's going on with work or the the way you're spending your time, do something about it. We all have that power to do something about it, um, and that is about self-leadership and and and self-ownership to a certain degree. So yeah, turn up the best you can, um, turn up for the people around you um and focus on on you um rather than other things.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

I love that. I am gonna challenge you slightly, only in that how does or your advice then show up for yourself, and uh we often say self-care is not self-ish, you know, focus on you, and you are the foundation of all your other responsibilities. So if you fall, the house of cards around you falls. You were at your, you know, you talk about your darkest hour. How do you move, or what's the advice to those who perhaps will look in the mirror and go, I need to do something, to actually doing something because we often spend so long trapped in that limbo between unhappiness and taking action to solve the unhappiness.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

Again, it's it's not an easy step. And what did I do? I suppose like I just can only bring it back to what I did and what I experienced. And that was just taking that one step forward, and that was uh it scared the shit out of me, honestly. When that last paycheck didn't come in, I was like, and it came in, uh it came it it didn't come in as as it came in, it it got cut a lot quicker than I was anticipating. I shit myself, I was like, okay, right, now we've got to make this work. But the lights are on, I can still feed myself, and and we we we build forwards from that. Um so you know, it's that that phrase courage is not the absence of fear, it is acting despite fear. Um so yeah, you're gonna be scared, maybe, um, but it doesn't mean you don't do it just because it's scary. Um does this challenge scare me? Yes. But I'm still gonna turn up and give in my absolute all. Could I fail? Yes. Am I gonna go through pain? Yes. Um, you know, am I gonna have amazing moments? Yes. Um, and that's life. You're not gonna have it all hunky-dory and plain sailing, you're gonna go through shit.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

If we could drop if we could drop these mics, that might be it. I'm gonna ask you one final question, Nick. Um, and if there's anything else you wanna kinda talk about um before we close the session, then I'm absolutely happy to explore more stuff. But um just again, Nick today can go back five years to Nick who was struggling. If you were to put an arm around her, around Nick, what would you say?

SPEAKER_01 53:35

I'm gonna go further back. Yeah. I'm gonna go further back. I'll go back to like just being a pretty, pretty I mean, I had the focus on joining the military. That was always something that I it felt like it was in my DNA, it felt like that was inevitably gonna happen. Um but when I was like 18, going through my GCSE or going past GCSEs, going to A levels, going to decide what I wanted to do at university. Um go for what you want to do, go for what sets your heart on fire, you know, and and and and enjoy it. You don't have to go down a line because you're being pushed down that line by um by by teachers or by whoever. Um, but I would I would Nick at 18, I would coach him. I wouldn't have told him that he has to do more maths because he shit at it, therefore do more maths. That doesn't really work very well for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

You're talking about you're talking to the man who got EU in geography or got and left school with five G C S E.

SPEAKER_01 54:24

So exactly. So, you know, when you're in those moments of difficulty, if you're a young lad, we've grown up uh, you know, teens to university, have have a discussion with someone openly about what it is you really want to do and seek guidance of how to do that thing. Um and just because you've I've I've gone through two major career changes now, yeah um, both went in very different directions, but I seem to have gone all the way back down to what I wanted to do when I was like 18 years old. I wanted to be, I wanted to do PE. I did. I wanted to do it as a subject. So much, so much stigma attached to it now. But I was fascinated by the physiology of stuff. Wasn't clever enough to be a doctor, but it was the it was that case in that moment was like, okay, just listen to what you look okay, have a think about what you want to do. Don't worry about the stigma that might be attached to it. Okay. And as we look back now and the opportunities that are laid out in front of you with with AI, with with the connected world we live in now, you can literally go out there and make a success of anything you want to do. And do it for you, don't do it for anyone else.

SPEAKER_00 55:31

I said the last question. You won't remember a detective called Columba, but he would always go, just one more thing. But you just because you raise an intro a really interesting point there, tell me the difference between because everything that the way life is set up right now, and obviously AI is a massive enabler. Tell me the difference between it's kind of like that get rich quick, the quick route to the harder route that you've been taking. Because it seems like at every stage, particularly even you know, for our young people, doing the work is something that we don't want to do anymore.

SPEAKER_01 56:04

I mean, yeah, because everything it comes across as it's so easy to attain, right? Yeah, but it's not you've got to do the work. And actually, doing the work is where the pleasure is, and that's where the experience is, and that is where you build the experience in order to be excellent on what you do. You need to become excellent on what you do, you need to become a subject matter expert at what you do, because that can't be replaced. But the quick fix, the quick website builds, whatever it is that's gonna try and get the next new business out there in front of you, you can see it. It's paper thin. Um yeah, I'm sure it's improving, but like it's paper thin. And that's what a lot of people out there will be trying to achieve is paper thin results, whereas actually you want to build something that you have really worked hard for, and that is where the satisfaction is. The obstacle is the way, as the Stoics would say, and the satisfaction is doing the hard work. And that is why when you get to the end of something that is physically demanding, that is that is such a reward when you when you don't give up, when you get over that hill and you and you and you meet that next false summer and you're like, God, here we go again. But you keep going. And once you get there, the it tastes even sweeter.

SPEAKER_00 57:11

Nick, it's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you on the podcast today. Um if you've been inspired by Nick's story, uh Nick, where can people reach out to you and find more about your uh your your mission, your your your your adventure that's coming up? On Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 57:24

On Instagram, nickes.performance. Uh there's a link in my bio there to the website for Unbound.

SPEAKER_00 57:29

We'll put a link in the show notes as well. So if you're following us on YouTube, it'll be there or in the show notes on Apple or Spotify. Uh while you're there, subscribe button's just there. It takes a second. And if you're on YouTube, you'll be joining more than 116,000 people who are now following us. So come and hit that button. So Instagram, uh, YouTube, and uh once again, thank you for joining us on the mental space.

SPEAKER_01 57:51

Thank you, Scott. It's been an absolute pleasure, and um, thank you for giving me the space to explore these questions. Good luck.