Clifton Podcast | What Nobody Is Telling You About Trades

Most contractors think the hiring problem starts with finding apprentices. But according to HVAC education leader Clifton Beck, the real issue is what happens after they get hired.

In this episode of ESCO Institute and Trade Traction, we break down why so many young techs leave the trades early, how contractors are failing the next generation, and what companies must do to actually retain profitable employees long-term.

From apprenticeship systems and mentorship to company culture, technology, leadership, and the future of the skilled trades — this conversation is packed with insights every plumbing, HVAC, and electrical contractor needs to hear.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 – Why contractors keep losing good technicians
00:32 – Introduction to Clifton Beck & ESCO Institute
02:10 – Why most contractors misunderstand apprenticeship programs
05:00 – How contractors can shape local trade education programs
09:12 – The biggest reason young techs leave the industry
10:00 – Creating career paths that retain employees
15:00 – How technology is changing HVAC & skilled trades
20:00 – Why money alone won’t keep technicians loyal
25:00 – The massive opportunity still available in the trades
30:00 – The deeper purpose behind skilled trades work
35:00 – Different career paths inside HVAC & plumbing
37:15 – Final message on building a profitable company that keeps great people

#HVAC #PlumbingBusiness #SkilledTrades #ContractorBusiness #HVACLife #TradeTraction #Apprenticeships #BusinessGrowth #HVACTechnician #Tradespeople

The Podcast that helps plumbing and heating service contractors stop working for free and actually turn a profit. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

If you're a plumbing, heating, or cooling contractor who's tired of working harder every year and still wondering why profit feels out of reach, one of the biggest reasons may be happening inside your own team. You're losing talent faster than you can build it. Right now, most contractors struggle to hire apprentices. But the bigger problem is what happens after they get hired because too many young techs leave before they ever become profitable. Before we jump in, make sure you like and subscribe to the Trade Traction YouTube channel so you don't miss conversations that help you build a stronger, more profitable business. Today I'm talking with Esco Institute's Clifton Beck, one of the leading voices in HVAC education and apprenticeship development, working with more than 1,500 schools across the country, helping contractors build real training systems that actually retain people.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

We lose about 60% of our technicians within the first 18 months of being in the industry.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

That number alone explains why so many contractors feel like they're constantly starting over.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

And they want to know what they have to do to get to where they want to be.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

In this conversation, you'll discover why young technicians leave, how to build a clear career path that keeps them engaged, and why training may be the fastest way to finally stop working for free and start building the business you actually dreamed of. Let's get into it. So we just met. So, Kristen, what are you up to? Why are you at Skills USA?

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Yeah, so I'm with the ESCO Institute. So we do training, certification, accreditation for the HBAC industry, but we we do a lot with apprenticeship programs. We work with about 1,500 schools across the country. So from high school into all of your secondary, post-secondary vocational programs for HBAC in refrigeration. And when I seen that you were working the apprenticeship, I was like, man, that's us. I mean, that's a lot of what we do. We we focus in three really the three different sectors. If you think about HBAC, you got three different apprenticeship paths, right? You can go through a traditional union apprenticeship program, five-year union apprenticeship program. You can go through a vocational school. And some of those vocational schools already have relationships with local contractors. So you're doing a blended apprenticeship. You're doing vocational education and you're doing the hands-on side of it as well, either simultaneously or you're committing with that contractor after graduation. And then you have, you know, the contractor-based apprenticeship program where you have someone with zero industry experience, and the contractor is bringing them in and helping build them into successful technicians. Yeah. Right? Yeah. That's that's where we focus is you know, what do you need? Because we work with all three groups. We work very closely with UA, we work very closely with contractors, a lot, a lot of contractors recently. In the past, we're primarily technical schools, but we've got so many contractors starting to build their own training programs. And they're going, Where do I where'd I get my content? Do I have to build this from scratch? And we'll go, no. Here's a bundle. What do you want? You want to teach you a 608? Here, here's all your PowerPoints, here's all your instruction, here's your book, here, here's all of the certification and tests that you need to do. Do you want to do you know heat pumps? Do you want to do electrical? And so we work on all those fundamental courses so that whatever apprenticeship program you're working through, you've got the material that you need for it.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

So can um so can a small can a small company use your material? Oh, we encourage it.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Yeah, absolutely. So what we do is we work with those groups, those contractors that are actually starting their own training program. Now, we we really need for them to have an established training in their facility, right? So they've got equipment that they're training on and they've got at least a structure of what their program is going to look like. And then we assist them with getting the content and how to do the training side of things. So we actually just have them go to our website, they become proctors, so we'll verify you know where they are in the industry. So we want to make sure that you know their heart's in the right place, they're doing everything for that student and that they're following you know industry accepted standards along that way. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

I run into so many small shops that well, they say they can't afford an apprentice, so that means they're not charged the right price.

SPEAKER_02 3:53

Right, yeah, they haven't looked at their overhead properly.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Yeah, exactly. But I you know, we did we didn't know about anything like that. And so in my company, we built our own curriculum. Yeah, and our own we had our own training lab. Yeah, and uh, but you know, it took us 15 years to get to that level where we could even do that, and and um looking back, we had no idea there was curriculums already in place. Most don't. Yeah, and part of that was I didn't get out to trade shows, I was too busy working, yeah. Yeah, you were making the money, running the business, running three, four, five hats at a time, yeah. And so I'm I'm a big proponent of go out to a trade show, and you don't have to go across country. This is a national trade show, but what's crazy is how many contractors in Atlanta aren't here today.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Yeah, isn't it? And they don't even know it's here, don't even know. Like, where do you get the pool of talent coming out of our field? It it's right here, it's in front of you, and making those connections with contractors and the schools, it is so critical. So most people don't realize that every vocational program around our country is driven by their what they call a PAC meeting, program advisory committee, right? That's where volunteers from the industry come in once or twice a year and they help direct what the program should be. Like, what are the needs of the contractor? Right. And they have they have the opportunity to actually sculpt that, and most contractors don't know that.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

No, yeah. So, yeah, so so going out to trade shows and then seeing what's available. And what I'm shocked to hear is how much education is available, and then this virtual virtual reality.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Oh, yeah, that's growing like crazy, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Oh my goodness. I they had I was over there welding virtual reality.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Yeah, I got I felt like I was welding. I know. I was over here playing on a backhoe, and I'm like, uh this feels like my little mini. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

So um it was a spike. I I talked to also a lot of a lot of contractors say they don't know, they haven't seen any young people that want a job. I could hear that. And so I'm like, Well, you're not looking in the right place. Not in the right place, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

But they're everywhere. And you know, the thing that we we have the largest problem with is that retention, even when we get technicians in, no most people don't understand that we lose about 60% of our technicians within the first 18 months of being in the industry.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Let's talk about that. Yeah, it's an important thing to talk about. So statistics show we lose 60%. Yeah, so people can start and 18 months later they're gone.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

And leave the industry. It's not that they're leaving the contractor, they're leaving the industry.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Yeah, that's why we're losing, you know, because when we think about what's happening, you know, what we typically see about a 30,000 technician shortage. Right. That's that's a that's a pretty fair number. And that's going to start multiplying because do you know what the average age of an HBAC technician is in our industry right now? That's probably over 50. It's 53 years old. Okay. Okay. So we look at in the next 10 years, we're going to lose about 50% of our industry. And so we have to find a way to retain the talent when we bring it in. Right. And so when we talk with young technicians, you know, we work with about 1,500 schools across the country. We have our own educational conference just for educators. And we have that opportunity to ask those students that are coming through and are leaving, why did you leave? Because that's the thing that we don't ask enough. Yes. By the time they're gone, we don't have a chance to ask them. Isn't that called an exit review? It is. Yeah. Right. And so what we're finding is our younger technicians, like every older generation complains about the younger generation.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

It's been going on for millennials.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Millennial, right? So what we have to do is we have to understand what the younger, the generations younger than us, what they're looking for. And then we have to help provide that. And generation, when we look at the generational shift, right? I'm an ex, I'm Gen X. When we look at, let's pass millennial, because millennial are fairly aware of, you know, they they've set in their career by now. But when we look at Gen Z and Alpha, which is our news, many of our students out here in the Gen Alpha, they are looking for careers and career paths, and they want to know what they have to do to get to where they want to be. Yes. And many a times, like you and I imagine, when we were working, the harder you worked, the further you got.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

But you didn't know what you were really working towards, and you didn't know how much work it took. So you just did as much as you could and you hoped that you got there one day. Yeah. Right? Yes. Yeah, these two generations won't accept that.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Yes. Right? We'll get back to the show in one second, but real quick, if you're a service manager or owner and you've ever had one of those random slow days where the phone stops, the boards clear out, and everybody's looking at you, asking what to do next, this is for you. I created a five-page PDF called Emergency Slow Day Survival Pack to help you turn those unexpected slow days into productive time. Inside, I show you how to keep your team focused, use downtime to strengthen the business, and have a ready-to-go checklist for when things suddenly slow down. If you want it, just comment slow day and I'll send it right over. All right, back to the show. So in my business, like the last five years, I had an organizational chart.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

And I had been business long enough where I had my service manager starters and apprentices, right? And so I laid that out and I should I so when I interviewed kids, I'd say, This is where you start, and this is where you can go. And in fact, this person here started here, right? This person here started here. I had team leads and service managers and lead tax and tax and appendices. And their eyes would light up and they would say, No one else has this. And it was one of my it was one of my secret sauces in attracting young people was I just pull this out and I could see their eyes light up. Yeah. And so when I showed them that there was a path, and then I've been in business long enough I could prove the path worked. You bet. They hired on. That's all they want.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

Yeah. We need to be in the business of resume building for the talent. Yes. Every skill that they need to build their professional resume that's on us when they get to us. Yes. Hopefully they've had good instruction getting to us. Yeah. But when we get they when we get acquire them, when they're to us, we have to continue that. Otherwise, they're going to be yearning for someone that does.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

They know that there are paths to get to successful careers. Yeah. And they want to see that. And if, yeah, we lay that out, you got something.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

All you do is lay it out, and then we're trying to figure out how to motivate them. It's like, well, they what they ask is how do I get there? That's it. And say, well, when you've been here six months and you do these things, then you know here's your task.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

And they go to work. Yeah. And a lot of it's assignments, right? Like you were talking about like e-learning courses. Like most of these young generations are spending four to eight hours a day in digital media, whether they're at school, whether at home, whatever. They're spending a significant amount of time in digital media. If we give assignments, right, as a contractor, because contractors are it's difficult to come up with the time for training, right? Yes. If we have in-house training, but we also have assignments that they can do on their own time that are assigned and are digital, and we have verification, like a test, a certification at the end of that that they have to pass, you'd be amazed how many are going to do that on their own because you showed them that if they succeed, if they can pass this, they can acquire this.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

That's what we did. Really? We said once you've done these things, taking these classes, and all of a sudden it's like ding, ding, your email alerts are getting done. It's like, yeah, holy crap, this kid's got five courses done already.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

You just finished at midnight, you gotta be at work at eight in the morning. Yeah. So when we talk about like getting getting them to work, right? It's what what's their motivation? If they don't have a motivation, why wouldn't you be motivated? So you give them that ability to create their own career path and you lay it out in front of them. Here's the things that you have to do in this amount of time. And if you do, you're going to be rewarded like this. And after that, here's the next step once you see that. When they put that, if you put that in front of them to work and they can actually see that, then it becomes immediate. Because if we think about how they learn, right? Education has changed. And then by the late 1990s, we were moving away from linear education. You and I grew up on linear education. If I was going to read a book about going to grandma's house, I didn't know how to get to grandma's house until I got to the end of the book. Yes. I learned from the very first page, by the time I got to the end of the book, I had learned what the book was about. Yeah. Right? We don't do that anymore. We have linear, our linear paths are now modular education. And so students are able to pick up the components that they want along the way. Like you and I, if the assignment was a due on Friday, if we didn't have it done, it was a big deal, right? Today it's not. It has to be done by the end of the semester. But we have that ability to be able to do some modular training. So it's very comfortable for them to do that in stages. And so we build out a modular education and go, here is 30 different things that would help your career. And you can do them at your leisure. You're going to do some of them in-house because I need for you to be EPA 608 certified within X, 30 days, 60 days, night, whatever that is. I need for you to be here. These other things you can do on your own. But when you acquire these, you're going to be there. Off they go. Yep. They get their motivation. Yeah. They're motivated to come to work and learn, and they're motivated to do their own training at work.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

And if if if you're working with a person that is not motivated, well, maybe they're not the right fit, but that doesn't mean that they're all that way.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Yeah. And sometimes we forget to ask the most basic question. What does motivate you?

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Imagine that.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Imagine that if we just asked.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

And that what motivates them might be different than what motivated me.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Yeah. Yeah. You know a lot of contractors will will have a bad experience with a young person and think they're all that way. Right. And say, no, no, no, no. No. You just have to get ones that are interested. Yeah. And um, and then and then the officer makes it. I I have seen several times where one good interested apprentice can change the culture of the company. Oh. Because the older guys are kind of tired and feeling feeling bad about the next generation and wondering what to do next. And but when uh an interested young person comes along and it's soaking up, and then they start passing on the knowledge and they get excited, yeah, then all the guys start stepping up again. Right. Because the kids paying attention. Exactly. And it can change the culture.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

It does. You know, one of the things that we look at in schools is that we're making that transition in education, going from a lot of the mechanical fundamentals that we learned into digital electronic fundamentals, right? And to do that, we have to we have to be willing to accept some change. Take, for instance, load calculations for a home, right? There was a time where that was a very sophisticated process that only your top technicians were doing because took a lot of time. Sometimes that was a person that's all that they did. In today's world, we can use things like conduit tech and we can do LiDAR calculations of a home in about 20 minutes, right? Using an iPad Pro that's using the LIDAR camera, boom, we're doing scanning, it's pulling in geolocations, and we can actually have a calculation in 20 minutes from someone who knows how to use uh an electronic device a whole heck of a lot better than than we do.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

And so if you can take and you can find that one, that one tech savvy, hungry new technician will change the culture because it the technology is interesting to us, to all of us. Yeah, a lot of us are just kind of leery of it because we don't know where to begin. Yeah, and so it gives you that opportunity to blend cultures, it lets some of us older technicians go to the younger technicians, go, you know what, kid, I can teach you some stuff, but you can actually teach me. Let's trade. Absolutely. Right? A lot of us older technicians don't like to give up the information that we have. That is a problem in our industry. Yeah, but they'll trade it.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Yes, very good point. Very good point. Wow, so we're losing 60% right now. I I have no one, I have not talked about that this whole week.

unknown 16:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

So training is half the battle. It is, and the pathway, and the pathway, yeah. And then getting out like I really encourage people to bring their apprentices to the trade shows.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

And let them get it get out of the trenches and see what everything looks like what they're working so hard for. Yeah. And then um the other the other the other struggle, I think, was parents thinking their kids are gonna be in the trenches the whole life. Yeah. They think that if they're a plumber or whatever, they're gonna that's they're gonna be in the trenches. No, like I've been I've talked to so many kids that are like 24, 25, yeah, and they're already in management. They're out of it, out of it. They're almost out of the trade. They're managing other people already.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Right. Yeah, that's the thing that we are we do the worst job of is marketing our own industry. Yeah, it's an amazing industry. We don't show that enough. That's part of what I enjoy doing is showing the different career paths, especially, like you said, to the parents. Show them the options because we have new roles coming into our industry that even existing technicians don't even think about, don't even realize. Like the highest demand career in our industry right now is technicians who can work on data center chillers, right?

unknown 17:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Okay, so we're talking about a job that you can be trained for and be comfortable with it within your four or five years that's paying $135,000 to $160,000 a year. Yes. And you got paid the whole time to learn. And you got paid the whole time to learn along the way. And so when we start showing the things that we actually do, yeah, the whole industry looks better. Because what we think about like residential installation, right? That's the dirtiest job. That's where I started, a small family business. I was a little guy, so I was in every attic and crawl space until I until I got tired of it and I wanted to do something different. Unfortunately, I stayed and I got better and I learned new things, and it took me a very long way to enter industry. But if that's all that the industry sees is dirty air conditioners and dirty furnaces and hot attics and nasty crawl spaces, it never opens them up to all of the other opportunities. And I think that's part of the reason they leave in that first 18 months is because many contractors, where you're going to bring them into that's where you start. That's where you start. Yeah, and if they don't know where they can go, yes, after 18 months, they're like, I'm at a plateau and I'm still getting dirty and I'm not making any more money. I might want to do something different. And if if we didn't give them the opportunity to do something else, I think we failed them.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Yeah, I agree. I think a lot of a lot of people are they're like, Well, I I didn't get that opportunity, so I'm not gonna it's like we have to we weren't trained well. No, we were just kicked in the back. That's exactly right. It's like sink or swim. And a lot of people say, Well, that's the way I was taught. Well, right, that doesn't mean it was right or good, yeah. And um, so let's be better, yeah, right? And so I think it's super important, and and and like it does you know again, you don't have to travel across the nation to go to a trade show. Every state has trade shows. Oh, yeah, all so get that and it can be attacked right off. Yeah, like give the kid a a night out or a day off and go to a trade show and see what's out there. And when you see all these kids, their eyes are just lit.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Oh, yeah. Once they see what else they can possibly do. We've even had relationships between our local trade school, our distributor, and our contractor to be able to do classes at the local school. Because you know, what if that technician that you're bringing up hasn't been to any fundamental classes, right? There's opportunities to learn some of that in the actual classrooms, and so you're getting a deeper hands-on experience. It doesn't have to be a fully committed program, you're getting them in for the courses that they're going to need to understand things better. So there's a lot of these really cool blended educational opportunities that's happening in our industry. And you're right, they get a chance to be able to see things, to witness other events, and you know, if we get a good technician, we don't want them to go, right? No. So typically we're going to use money to keep them around. Yeah. You know, one of the one of my closest mentors in the industry is Greg Crumpton, and he has this saying Is it okay to train a technician and then leave or to not train them and they step? Yes. Right? And so we have to look at that because many of us as contractors we're scared to invest into those that are getting better because we're afraid that they could leave. And these generations, they are very brand aware. Yeah, they're very focused on brands and committed to brands. And if we make them part of our brand as a company, they're there to stay.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Here's the deal, and even if they're not, the technicians are still connected. Oh, yeah. The technicians, my technicians are now that I sold my company, you know, a lot of people moved on to different places. Yeah, those guys are all still buddies, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:12

They're always talking, they all spend half their time on social media, yeah, right? So they're all connected in some way or another. Absolutely. You know, I talked to one contractor that their development was so intriguing because they did very little marketing for technicians. So they had like a 70 to 80 percent retention on their technicians, but they did very little marketing because they had job referrals, yeah. And so what their path looked like, it was this kind of that job resume. They would bring in their technicians, whether they came from a trade school or they came off the street, they would bring them in and they would rotate them through every position within the company for at least two or three days. So they were in the warehouse, they were picking up parts, they were at least listening to the customer. Service calls, they were looking at invoices going through the accountant, they were riding along with salespeople, just listening, and then they were doing their training, and then they would end up in the service vehicle. And then after six months, nine months, they would get to a point where they were starting to be more proficient in the job. And then they were asked how they were feeling about this job, or were there any of the other jobs along this way that you had an interest in? I love it. And so the retention immediately stayed because if they didn't like installation, are they a good talker? Yeah. Could they potentially be a good comfort advisor? Yeah. Right? Yeah. Or were they bored with this job and they just want to drive around town picking up parts? We need all of those people. Yes. And so in that path, they literally just laid out what you could do here over a two-year period. Awesome. And here's all the different paths that you could go to.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

And so they did have a lot of their technicians that were planning to leave the company, stay and just do different roles. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

That makes all the sense to work. It's so simple.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Yeah. But brilliant. Why did somebody think of that a long time ago? Yeah. Right. Try to keep the ones that you're investing into. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

I kind of did something when I I when I was big enough, I had all the positions. And then when I interviewed someone before I started, I would ask them, How do I create the perfect job for you?

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Really?

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Yeah. Like, what do you yeah, what do you want? Do you want to do drain work? Do you not want to do drain work? And then and then I would say, Well, I got a perfect job for you right here. This does all that. Checks these boxes. All that. And so um, yeah, there's so much opportunity. We just have to create it and then share the information. Right? Yeah. And let them let them stay.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

This right here. Right. This is how you do it. You you reach out to other contractors and go, This worked for me. Totally. This could work for you.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

What about that fear of sharing knowledge? Like a lot of the even joining associations. I would I mean uh the PACC. Oh, yeah. And uh so many contractors don't want to share information. But I don't think that's ever hurt me to share information. I don't think so either. It took me a while to figure that out myself. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

I mean, if you think about anything in life, right? Think about just being about being in high school and being in, let's just say, math class, right? Yeah, there are people that were really good at math, and there were people who weren't as good at math. When the people that were really good at math helped the ones that weren't as good as with math, the entire class was elevated. Yes. That's us.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

That's totally true. Like you really want a good competition. You want the competitor doing good work, yeah, charging the right price. Right. And um I I've never experienced a negative, and somehow we got to break that down. And um, I had one I actually learned it from an employee. Um, I think you learned it from another contractor, but he said, We're not competitors, it's like a golf course. Like we're both golfers, yeah, and we're playing against the golf course, not against each other. Oh, wow. Isn't that cool?

SPEAKER_02 25:00

That's a great perspective.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

And that's true. We're all there's plenty of work out there, right? Plenty of work. That's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

We don't it's like some of us forget that everyone needs HVAZ and plumbing and electrical, every single household needs it. And if we can elevate the um the norm, there's gonna be a lot of the contractors that don't perform well that are going to start falling away because now the bar has been elevated, and it's either you're going to get there or you're not going to be successful. And so, as contractors, yes, we can elevate our competition, but in the process, we eliminate some the work, yes, potentially some competition, and probably some of the ones that were shooting prices so low that we really didn't need for them to be there anyhow because they weren't doing great work, yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_01 25:55

I have a I have a thesis about why there's so all these little companies out there not growing, and that is how many companies exist because they had to, because there was nowhere for them to grow? Like that it was obvious that the son was going to be the service manager and they weren't growing, and so they had a they had a lead to grow, yeah, for even a chance to grow, yeah. But so I really do think that plumbers uh are our contractors in general, businesses, they have a responsibility to be profitable so that they can grow, so that they can create opportunities for their employees to grow with them, yeah, and not force them to just face it, not everybody's up to be in a business, right? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

I wasn't, yeah. I thought I was at one point. I was a great technician. I thought if I'm a great technician, I should be a great business owner. Two different things. And yeah, it's a whole different philosophy, it's a different mindset, and it takes a commitment and it takes a resource network that not everyone is comfortable with, but and and so it may not be right for everyone, right? And there are times that we'll see contractors get in those positions and then realize that it may not be the right choice, but then they're there and then they're hard on the right committed.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

Yeah, exactly. Well, it's there's a lot of ego involved, it's embarrassing. Yeah, um, you don't want to admit it. So, yeah, I really I actually when I interviewed people, if I saw that they decided on their own, yeah, I'm like, good for you. Yeah, like that tells me a lot about you. That's initiative, you're a motivated dude. That's right. And um obviously you felt like there was a ceiling where you're at, so there's not a ceiling here. Exactly. We're growing, and that that was a good employee for me. Yeah, yeah, that's a great perspective.

SPEAKER_02 27:38

Yeah, because it does, it just it shows initiative. Really, I mean, it's really what set me up for education, right? So I was a really good technician. I had dabbled with you know taking on my own company, decided it really was it just didn't feel quite right for me. And I at one point in my career I had a um I had a mentor that was a uh recruiter reached out and he said, Did you know that you were you're supposed to be a teacher and you didn't really you didn't know it, you didn't think about that option? And I went, no, I guess I I never I never had. I'm I'm in interested in exploring because I love the field. That's interesting. Maybe I just needed someone to say you can do really well in this other avenue in the industry. So then you discover teaching in the trades. I had no idea for me. It was like why makes me feel like I actually worked hard for a reason more than just raising the family, right? It's like I actually contributed something that gives me the opportunity can to contribute back. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

I think that's in every in all technicians' hearts, it's to leave a legacy and it is who want to pass on what's been so good to us, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:53

Yeah, you know, I keep asking this of people, no matter what their faith is, I feel like tradespeople have servant hearts.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

We love serving others. That's why that's why it's it sucks when it's slow. Yeah. So because we all go get our um dopamine hits by it's a tremendous dopamine hit to go save the day and make someone fix the plumbing or get the air back on or get the heat back on. Yeah, like they were because we get there and they're desperate, yeah, and then we fix it and it feels so good. We're driving home, feeling good, and then when it's slow for a couple days, like the depression sets in, right? Absolutely does. And we're just having like we need our fits, yeah. And because we really get our kudos by helping other people out.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

I did a podcast with Linux um probably a couple months ago. Just yeah, I think it was back in November, and we just got on a rabbit hole talking about this, talking about why do we stay in this field? It's hard work, it's not always the easiest. Hey, it's good, but it's you know, it's not a million dollars a year. Why do we do it? It's because of the difference we make in the world around us and the people around us. It's an addiction every day, every single day, and so many times in that first take that first 18 months of trying to develop an apprenticeship program, you know, that first 18 months that many of them are leading it. Along that way, they're doing hard work, they're making okay pay. Are they being taught what the benefits of staying are? Most of the time they don't. And it's up to us to share these stories. It's up to us to go, man, yeah, that day that I fixed this house and this happened. Those stories we have to share because those that haven't had those experiences are gonna be curious. They're gonna go, that comes with this job. I thought we were just fixing furnaces and air conditioners. And go, no, no, you're saving lives.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

When I talk to apprentices, one of the most surprised I say, What's the most surprising thing that you discover about the trade? Yeah. And almost always it's how good it feels to help somebody. Exactly. And we've heard you hear the studies, these young people want a job with purpose to make a difference. To make a difference. That's exactly that's what we do every day.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

Yeah, if we could do more of that sharing, that's why I love podcasts. That's when I see new podcasting, I'm like, this is where it's at. Yeah. I I love podcasts because it gives us the opportunity to share these experiences and these stories with the industry to make it aware.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Yeah, and then our stories can be your stories. That's right. Right? Like that's right. But you we borrow each other's stories, we betcha. And so it expands our our repertoire of stories to tell.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

And it helps us see that path. Like that, like do you mind? What was your path in the industry?

SPEAKER_01 31:49

My path in the trades? Yeah. I uh was praying for an open door. Um, I was 26 years old. I had been a I was a hard worker. I'd done three years of construction. I done all sorts of other jobs, sales jobs, and um I was praying for open door, and um the minister pray says, Why do we pray for open doors when we're unwilling to go to the doors already open to us? Oh well, my roommate's dad had been calling me saying, I think you should come work at my company. It was a funeral home. And so I don't want to work with dead people. What are you talking about? So, but uh on faith, I just said, okay, yeah, that sermon and all that. The guy called the next day and said, Look, if you want this apprenticeship, you gotta come in. I didn't even know what apprenticeship was. Right. So I went in, said yes to the job. They hired me on the I knew I was hired immediately, like everything just clicked at a funeral home. And uh I ended up really liking that, and so I got uh I got a two-year apprenticeship and went to some schooling and got my licenses there. And um, and then but my work ethic, my father-in-law owned Jim Johnson Plumbing, and so he saw my work ethic and said, I need you in the plumbing company.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

We're getting too big, and he saw I had a business background. So um then he pulled me over there, and then I was going to um become a plumber because if I can embalm, I can do anything. That's a good point, right? That's what I thought. And only three months into it, he had a heart attack. Oh no. So then I got pulled right into the management company and selling and doing it. I had sales experience, so doing the service nestling and management crews. So I never became a plumber, right? But I I so I had the apprenticeship side on one side and I trained apprentices on the other, but I knew what it was like to have mastered one skill. Yeah, and then so I really appreciated my plumbers and I gave them the autonomy to to practice a draft. Yeah, that's kind of my pathway. It's kind of different than most people's.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Now that sounds like it was right like that's supposed to happen. But worked great. How did you know those doors were gonna be there? They weren't, but it didn't work there, right? Those paths were already there, those doors just waiting for you. And I just walked you just had to go do it, walk through them. Yeah, yeah, actually take advantage of it when they're there. And it's not easy.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

No, it's scary to walk through open doors. You bet it is. Like I did not want to walk through that phenol home door. Like that was like, who on earth wants to work in a phenol?

SPEAKER_02 34:22

What career is this?

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Yeah, and uh here I am today, podcasting in a that's that skills USA. Yeah, that's why I say this career.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

I I don't I know there are a lot of trades and a lot of careers where you can go different directions. Yeah, but I I just I feel like in this mechanical trades, it's very unique, right? Our craft is very unique because of the opportunities that it offers. Yeah, and and I really I feel so bad for those that leave the industry without seeing what it actually is. Yeah, because you could do whatever you want. Yeah, those doors are there for what you enjoy. You might have to put some time in working hard, you're gonna make good money along the way. But if you go after a different aspect within our industry, it's there waiting for you.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

There's sales, there's HR, there's there's computer jobs, there's everything inside the trades. Yeah, it's not just the trenches.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

No, I see students all the time that are like, I don't know that I want to work on that stuff. Just I just I'm like doing computers, and I'm like, that's great. Do you realize that there's building management systems that you can sit from home and monitor from around the world and you can help people see when there's problems so they can dispatch the technicians out to them? They go, What?

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Right, yeah. And we need you with some field experience. Yeah, so you know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

If you understand what you're doing in the field and then you go the direction that you want to go, yeah, you are now 10 times more valuable. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

Okay, Cliff, and I always I always finish up, I try to always finish up. If we could go back and do it over one more time, two or three things you'd be different.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

Oh man. I I would have started getting certifications on my own earlier in life. That would have been the one, and I would have been less afraid to ask for some mentorship. That'd be the two things that would have of anything that I think would have made this journey more enjoyable and potentially even better than it already has been, that would have been those two things. That would have been me stepping out of my comfort zone.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Yeah, asking for some help.

SPEAKER_02 36:37

Asking for some help.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Yeah. Yeah, I I I talk when I talk to young kids about that. I go, if if you've got the question, you're probably not the only one that had the question. No. And if you'll raise your hand and and be the vulnerable one that asks, actually the other students will appreciate you. They want that lead. They'll appreciate you and they'll actually think better of you because you asked the question. Yeah, because you actually save them from being vulnerable themselves. So I say be a bold ask for sure. Stand up. Don't be afraid to ask that question. Awesome. Thank you. You too. Appreciate it. Thanks. Clifton, that was powerful. Especially the reminder that training isn't just about teaching skills, it's about giving people a future they can actually see. If you're listening right now and you want to build a profitable company that attracts and keeps great people, this episode is your reminder. The opportunity is there, but you have to create the path. And if you want to see that future firsthand, I strongly encourage you to attend Skills USA National Leaderships and Skills Conference in Atlanta happening June 1 through 5. This is where the next generation of skilled trades talent is showing up, competing, learning, and looking for opportunity. If you're serious about growing your business, this is one event you should not miss. And if today's episode helped you, like this video, subscribe to the trade traction YouTube channel, and share it with another contractor who needs to hear it. Because the more we raise the standard together, the stronger the trades become.