Cybernomics Radio
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Cybernomics Radio
#38 - Google's $32B Cloud Security Gamble with Richard Stiennon & Chad Boeckmann
Google makes a monumental $32 billion acquisition of cloud security leader Wiz, marking one of the largest cybersecurity acquisitions in history after previously attempting to purchase the company for $23 billion last year.
• Wiz offers simple cloud security deployment that provides immediate visibility into cloud environments
• Founded by a team that previously sold their startup Adallom to Microsoft
• Achieved unprecedented growth, reaching $100 million ARR faster than most enterprise software companies
• Created strong operational excellence with defined founder responsibilities and accountability
• Primarily serves AWS customers, creating an interesting dynamic where Google will generate revenue from customers using a competitor's cloud
• Potential for combining Google's AI capabilities with Wiz's cloud security platform creates exciting possibilities
• Competition between cloud providers (Google, Microsoft, AWS) intensifies with this strategic acquisition
• No immediate changes expected for existing Wiz customers, though long-term integration questions remain
• Demonstrates cybersecurity remains a top investment priority despite economic conditions
• Spawns opportunities for new startups and validates venture investment strategies in cybersecurity
I thought of you, richard, to vendor in the cybersecurity space. I wanted to turn to you and then I thought of Chad. Chad, you saw this Wiz acquisition coming down the line. You saw it from a million miles away. When was this like that?
Speaker 2:you first had it's like probably third quarter of 23.
Speaker 1:Okay, and I remember you saying, okay, these guys are going to be big, and you were always talking about whiz, and you started to integrate whiz into trust map. And so let's start with Richard. Right, I'm going to be the idiot here and I can say that I'm playing the idiot, but the truth is I am. I'm depending on you guys to educate me and educate the person who is listening to this in their car or wherever they are. So, richard, did you see this coming? Were you surprised by this?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was surprised because last year we went through this before. Surprised because last year we went through this before. So when I saw the rumors that it was happening and these rumors came out yesterday, I said, well, they're just playing the same game, right, Getting everybody excited and then calling it off. For some reason, Of course, we never got the backstory of what happened last year, when Google and Wiz were dancing and Google and Wiz were dancing and Google offered $23 billion, which was amazing. Right, that was twice what their current valuation was at their last amazing funding round, and this is easily the most meteoric rise for any cybersecurity company ever Maybe scales with inflation and all that. But, come on, it took.
Speaker 3:I mean, Check Point did go public. They went from zero to public in three years, but they were nowhere as big. Right, they had $30 million in revenue their second year, not $100 million like Wiz did. So it's just the pace of things. Right, Wiz had a really simple to deploy, really simple concept that customers valued immediately. Right, it was hey, deploy it in minutes and all of a sudden, I can see everything in the cloud. So I did extremely well with that, had the right backing from CyberStarts from day one, CyberStarts, is known for taking Israeli startups to that next level quickly. But I was kind of hoping, you know, because the team at Wiz, you know this isn't their first rodeo. They've sold companies before and you would think that they would want to be a standalone public company someday. And, you know, join the ranks of Palo Alto and Zscaler and Fortinet CrowdStrike and just keep playing in that game and contributing, and I can't hope they would be too. But now they're going to be part of Google.
Speaker 1:Chad, for the person that's listening to this, who they've never heard of Wiz. What is Wiz? What is the concept of Wiz? Richard just said that the concept is pretty simple to grasp.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it is simple. I mean, at the base of it, what they've done really well is allow customers to measure their security, vulnerabilities, misconfigurations and, you know, things that can lead to real threats and risks in the organization for cloud assets. You know that was their bread and butter when they came out of the gate. That's what they did, and I think they did a really good job of kind of pre-warming up their customer base before they went and did public availability, let's call it. And so they came out with a good base of customers. They could ratchet up that revenue very quickly in the first year as a result of that active customer base and use that as a launchpad to multiply their growth over the next several years, all the way to where we got today. And I think, by the way, what Richard said what was it a year ago, richard, roughly, when Google was courting Wizz $23 billion? Well, look, they got another almost $10, call it $9 billion more in 12 months, which is incredible amount of value add in that short of time.
Speaker 1:Why is that? What changed in the last year.
Speaker 2:That made that valuation skyrocket in that way, Richard what do you think?
Speaker 3:It continued to grow right, and we've all seen the story before right when whoever it was Google or Microsoft offered whatever billions for Yahoo and Yahoo turned them down, and then obviously they should have taken that deal, and so we all. One of the outcomes that quite frequently is seen is they go public for $5 billion, even though they could have sold last year for $23 billion. But I think what happened is that they continued the momentum. So if they were worth that much then, and they continue to grow at the rate they've been growing, then they're easily worth however much growth. That was right, turn ARR into market cap, kind of thing.
Speaker 3:I watched them and I was amazed that such a young company could handle hiring 150 people a month and just imagine what their HR processes are in order to be able to grow a team that size. Now it reminded me of the dot-com boom. When I first joined PwC, we were hiring 5,000 people a month and you know we did that by distributing every office, of which there were 1,000 of, had to hire, you know, 100 people, kind of thing. So the processes they built to be a fast growing company is pretty phenomenal, and I think if Google probably could learn something from that right. They're no longer a fast growing company like that, so they may want to be inspired by that ability to move into new areas and grow quickly into them.
Speaker 1:Is that because of their venture backing? Who did they have in their corner that helped them grow that fast to do those quick hirings and take care of the operational stuff and the management and what, what did? Who was their, their, their knight in shining armor?
Speaker 3:I don't know. I think it's the management team that gets all the credit.
Speaker 1:The internal management team.
Speaker 3:Internal management, the founders Wow, they get all the credit. They set that up and recognized quickly that it was happening and set themselves up for success, which is a little easier to do after you get a couple hundred million in venture backing, you know. You can then step back and think about how you want to build your company, whereas bootstrap companies have to think about where the next dollar is coming from right.
Speaker 1:So it turns out that in business, money solves everything.
Speaker 2:It also creates additional problems. Though you got to be careful, yeah yeah, like what?
Speaker 1:what kind of problems would it?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, for example, if you don't have the, if you don't execute on funding, you raise a couple hundred million in funding, or maybe not even that much, maybe it's 50 million in funding. You have to be able to deploy that capital in a very smart way to achieve the results that those investors are looking to achieve in a very specific amount of time, and so that's the other side of the equation here.
Speaker 1:All right. So let's talk about the management a little bit, because somebody is out there trying to build a similar company and they're going to want to replicate what Wiz did. Once you see this kind of news, the first thing that people are going to be thinking how did they do that and how do I replicate it? So was this a fluke, or is this something that you think that managers and teams can learn from?
Speaker 2:I personally think it's what Richard said earlier, it's the founding team, and the key word there is team, right? So they had I think was it three or four, essentially more than four founding team members. Okay, well, there you go. And they didn't just decide to have an idea and go for it. They clearly had a very well-drawn, well drawn out, strict strategy that they held each other accountable for and they executed very well. And they there was an interview I saw I don't remember all the details of it, or read, I should say I think I read this interview from one of their co founders a while back, and that's essentially what they have established is, each person had a very distinct role in that founding team and they kept out of each other's way and they just, you know, also kept through that, each other accountable for delivering upon the responsibilities that each individual was assigned to deliver upon Right. And so they they removed the possibility of friction, but they also increased the opportunity for accountability.
Speaker 1:You guys know their backgrounds, the founding members.
Speaker 3:They sold their previous company, adalarm, to Microsoft, if I'm pronouncing that correctly. So an Israeli startup Once again, microsoft buys them. I forget how much it was for, but it was sizable, If I'm pronouncing that correctly. So an Israeli startup once again, microsoft buys them. I forget how much it was for, but it was sizable. So when they got back together they could think about how are we going to do this this time? We want it to be big. They spent a lot of time as Microsoft executives as well, so they saw you know technology companies at scale, so they hadn't yet built anything as big as they experienced at Microsoft.
Speaker 1:So that's the secret sauce, maybe that's it's hard to compete with people who come from that environment who are able to replicate what they've seen at these bigger companies, and they just sort of spun it up. I mean, if you really think about it that way, it's kind of microsoft versus google here. Uh, have you seen any other companies? Sort of this is a conspiracy theory. I'll admit it's a complete conspiracy theory. But they say hey, why don't you guys go off, do your own thing and then, when you get big enough, we'll talk.
Speaker 3:Maybe we'll bring you back into the pool. Yeah, Cisco does that all the time.
Speaker 1:What's that called? Is there a name for that, or is that just kind of a?
Speaker 3:I don't know Corporate nepotism, I don't know. It's totally okay to do right, and it happens a lot with Microsoft as well. Founders sell to them, stay on for a year, get their buyout or whatever that sweetened offer is, and then they move on and do it all over again. And I think that is key to, uh, the successes that you had the senior management with senior experience, because at a lot of startups, if it's your first startup, if you're out of y combinator, which means you're going to be 19 years old and you're building something, and eventually, after your A round or B round, the investors are going to replace you with somebody with gray hair. Just happens so often. That's just going to happen, right? Or Symantec, right, eubanks was replaced by a 20-year IBM executive, john Thompson. A 20-year IBM executive, john Thompson. They always bring in the adults, right.
Speaker 1:And are the founding members still? They're still the people who are running Wiz right Yep. Okay, so they're very happy today.
Speaker 3:Head of products. Head of technology CEO and one other role.
Speaker 2:I'll add this to what Richard was saying no-transcript. Large enterprises that's how new products get released. But more often than not, when you see a huge success, like in the case of Wiz, that's not going to be because of internal innovation at a Fortune 500 company, as an example. Yep, and that's the way to be because of internal innovation at a fortune 500 company, as an example yep, and that's the way it's been forever.
Speaker 3:In my experience. The, the large companies yes, they'll have great product teams and they'll listen to their customers and innovate in order to deliver what the customers ask for fantastic. But as soon as somebody says this is all wrong, we are doing it wrong, we should be doing it this way. That's when it has to be a fresh founder startup who might leave Microsoft and might actually create the company that he or she thinks would fit into Microsoft really, really well, and then sell it back to them after they demonstrated hey look, you can, you know, whatever you know totally revamp your word processor and replace the revenue you're going to lose from the old people using it with the new kids on the block that you know. Which brings me to the competition between Google and Microsoft.
Speaker 3:So, unlike Google and Amazon, which you know, both the Google and Amazon and Microsoft had huge computing infrastructure and they all came at creating cloud services the same way. It's like wow, we've just invested hundreds of millions in creating this flexible, elastic system. We could rent space on that to everybody else. We could get back into what Boeing Computer Services was in when I got out of school timeshare computing, and but the difference here is that between Microsoft and Google. Microsoft created Bing in order to get a piece of Google's action right. They didn't do too well at it, but you know they got into the advertising business, so Google historically has thought of them as their main competitor, though in actuality the main competitor is actually Amazon and Amazon Web Services.
Speaker 3:So you got the three of them and I'm wondering if I don't think, you know, we're going to have any antitrust issues at all, because it's giant, massive, almost $2 trillion Google buying a little tiny cybersecurity company. Not a big deal, but that little tiny cybersecurity company grew off the back of AWS customers. Right, because they're cloud and AWS is, you know, 80% of the cloud, especially for the enterprise, whereas Google might have an 80%, you know, cloud presence in universities. That's not the same thing as having the enterprise. And so now, all of a sudden, the major cloud security provider for AWS is owned by their major competitor, google. What happens? And I'm not sure, but AWS could mess that deal up if they wanted to.
Speaker 1:Is this a loss? For Microsoft if they wanted to Is this a loss for Microsoft.
Speaker 3:I, you know Microsoft has been making a. I think it's more of a poke in the eye from Google, because Microsoft has been pretending that they're the biggest cybersecurity vendor by giving away stuff that nobody in their right mind would pay for because it's less, it's subpar, right. So here they are claiming now they're up to $20 billion in revenue from cybersecurity products, even though you know they haven't actually ever proved that to us. And Google just making a massive, you know, cutting edge cybersecurity acquisition right, it's not like Microsoft buying CrowdStrike. That would be a big deal, right, Because they would indicate that they really were concerned about security on their endpoints if they did that. No, they're going to create just barely good enough antivirus to put AVG and Avast and Norton LifeLock out of business unless they combine forces as they did.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I think it's a good play, good anti-Microsoft play, because, don't forget, Google does compete with Microsoft. They want to be the one to have the Google desktop and Google workspaces, compared to Microsoft's Office 365. They've got an editor that's fantastic. They've got a spreadsheet that I think is better than Excel. They've got everything you need PowerPoint. You've got all that and it's all online. It's modern, it's actually web-based. So, yeah, I think that's a good move on their part.
Speaker 1:Are they what Microsoft would be if they got a crowd strike Like does this make Google now a serious player in cybersecurity? Do you think of them now as a cybersecurity company?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, because the Mandiant acquisition didn't do that right. Mandiant gave them street cred because now they got some really good researchers, but it didn't give them the product so much. But now they've got best of breed product.
Speaker 1:Is Wiz going to come off of AWS and are they going to be on Google's cloud, or do you think Google is going to allow them to remain on AWS while providing the rest of the service? I mean, that would be crazy, but how do these things work?
Speaker 3:They have to stay on AWS right, or else they just pay $32 billion for no revenue.
Speaker 2:And if you think about that, it's a diversification, great diversification play for Google. In a way, they can now get revenue from AWS customers.
Speaker 1:Huh. So this is good news not only for Google, but this is good news for AWS, for Amazon as well.
Speaker 3:I don't know. I don't know because Amazon has a bunch of security products and a lot of them and they've got a whole marketplace full of security products. They have a security conference. They won't appreciate being pushed aside for market share, or mind share at least. Maybe that's great for the industry because maybe they'll start acquiring Trouble with Amazon acquiring because they've got so many partners. If they acquire one, they're going to piss off the others. Yeah.
Speaker 1:The tension is so thick you can cut it with a knife. It's like thick butter, and I'm excited to see what happens next. So is this a done deal, or is there any chance that this acquisition might not go through?
Speaker 3:Ooh, I could see that. You know we'd have to see the legal terms. But yeah, there's always caveats why it won't go through. If you know, if the stock market crashes and Google stock isn't worth as much as it used to be, maybe that could kill the deal there could be lots of outs.
Speaker 1:So, Chad, when you were looking at Wiz a long time ago, what was it about Wiz that made you feel like they were going to be big? And what? Because you weren't surprised by this acquisition? No, what was it that you saw in them?
Speaker 2:Primarily what I was hearing on the street with customers, what I mean by that.
Speaker 1:More customers, or customers in general, in the cybersecurity market.
Speaker 2:Both really yeah. So we were getting requests for WIS integration and, as I was talking to former colleagues and also customer prospects, talking about what tools they were using, wiz was definitely top of mind back then, and so it was pretty evident that they were going to go somewhere, and go somewhere very quickly, because rarely do you come across a product where almost everybody is acquiring it or talking about acquiring it. And, richard, you probably saw the same thing over the last two, three years. Yeah, completely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was kind of a no-brainer for a while and people give Orca credit for coming to market earlier than Wiz, but Wiz just got the backing, had the team, all A players across the board, so they won. The other one to watch that's very similar is Syera. Who similar thing. Right, I think they took in $200 million in funding last year and they're killing it Syera. Think about it. If WIS is configuration management, sayera is data discovery and classification. But unfortunately for Sayera, over a year ago WIS introduced their own data security classification solution. So Sayera is a competitor to WIS, but specialist data security classification solution. So you know Sayura is a competitor to Wiz, but specialist and it is different. And they are different buying centers. You know the network cloud architects by Wiz, the data data privacy chief digital officers by Sayura.
Speaker 1:What does this mean for customers, for CISOs, CTOs? Is anything going to change for them?
Speaker 2:I don't think so, not in the short term anyway, certainly not.
Speaker 1:Maybe things get better. Maybe more integrations, maybe more unification.
Speaker 2:I think that depends where a customer's stack is in the cloud, right. So if they're in Google, you have to be very happy with this announcement. If you're in AWS, perhaps there's some uncertainty, which we already discussed. But I think you know, before we see any major direction one way or the other, first this deal has to have ink on paper and closed, and then, two, it'll be interesting to see where Google plans to take Wiz Because, as Richard said earlier, the Mandian thing was really interesting at first, but then the excitement fizzled out, I think fairly quickly, and there wasn't a lot of announcement from Google on what they were planning to do on a more broader market perspective with that acquisition, whereas Wiz is something obviously as a product is very scalable and they offer quite a robust cloud services already. So that is going to become a very interesting to watch for everyone on what Google plans to do and how that could or could not change the current relationship over the next several years with AWS.
Speaker 1:There's someone who's like a real. Sorry, Richard, you're going to say something, Go ahead.
Speaker 3:I was just going to say. Keep in mind there's no connection between a company that makes billions and billions of profits from selling ads and anything else. There's just the business processes are totally different. The margins are totally different. There's no better margins than they make on selling ads. So when it comes push to shove, ad revenue is going to come first, right? And so Google is anti-privacy, right. They need to see all your data, so they give away a lot of free products so they can see your data. And Wiz is a security company. Those two are going to clash if they ever hit the market together. And Wiz is a successful, growing security company that probably invested a lot in customer support. So I bet you anything. A Wiz customer can call a phone number and talk to a human. And have you ever tried to do that with Google? Yeah, doesn't happen.
Speaker 1:Does it make Google a more secure product, because they're all in the cloud. They do a lot of cloud. Does this make them better, or do they just see this as an additional revenue stream?
Speaker 3:So if they could deploy Wiz for their own IT operations and they've got I don't know how many tens of thousands of employees, they've got big IT operations, so they need it Right and they've had incidents in the past that Wiz will help them avoid, like what Google Aurora 2010. Chinese just owned Google, stole all their source code and compromised all their biggest customers. It was a disaster.
Speaker 1:So this is good news for customers. There was someone I spoke to if you're listening and you can hear me, I'm sure it was a guest that I had on the show a long time ago who is just so anti google and they're like, even if you met. So everybody knows that I usually meet guests in google meets. First, our shop is a google shop. We do everything in Google. I love Google and it just makes this person livid and I wish I could remember who this was. It's like I can't even picture the face. I can't remember the name, but I remember talking to this person and they were like if anybody does anything in Google, you're an idiot, because especially if you're in security, because if you're claiming that you're in security, you're all about security, you're using Google, something's wrong with your head and they would not touch it.
Speaker 3:You just maybe use a Chrome browser to record this podcast.
Speaker 1:Right, right, because Riverside only use. Yeah, I can't, I can't. If I were to not be a Google shop for security reasons or for whatever reason, I got to close my shop and I'm sorry, I'm just not willing to do that. But should people like me breathe a sigh of relief, and should people like my friend, he who shall not be named because I can't remember his name should that person now feel better about using Google, now that they've clearly put cloud security in the forefront?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's a huge difference between cloud security and privacy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So that's the issue. I suppose you know what, Now that I'm thinking about this, this could have been Adam Stone.
Speaker 2:That could very well be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that sounds like something that shout out to Adam Stone. It could be something that he I mean he's the privacy guru and, as a matter of fact, I would be interested in what his take is on this. But so you're saying that this does not touch privacy at all, which, where the concerns people may have around privacy, may not have been addressed here.
Speaker 3:The data discovery. So you know, using Wiz's technology, their customers could find out where all their privacy related information is and encrypt it. Keep it away from Google. You know they can discover. You know they can discover. And then, with the cloud configuration, you could discover if Google has access to your private information stores, which would be really useful to have.
Speaker 1:And then you can shut it off. So this is just good news for Google and good news for the Wiz team.
Speaker 3:Doesn't seem like a whole lot's going to change for the customers. Yeah, you know, not immediately there's, no, you don't have to rush to the door and you know you don't have to start talking to Orca, but you could if you wanted to. That's one thing about you.
Speaker 1:Know if something is super, super easy to deploy, to the point where you can deploy it in a proof of concept mode during the first call with the salesperson. Then it's also super easy to flip and go to somebody else. It's not as sticky. So, Richard, you are a victim of your own success. You have prognosticated on this show and you were right. I think your success rate is pretty high. So I'm going to dub you the prognosticator of prognosticators here and ask you a very unfair question who is the next whiz?
Speaker 3:It's a long way off. I've already talked about Sayura right, who's going to be a good company, but I don't think they'll be a whiz at all and I think it'll be a rise out of the AI world that we're in now. But I wouldn't be surprised if it's none of the 96 vendors in AI security that I'm tracking. It'll be somebody else and they'll come up with something that just does a better job at something really normal and everyday right something really normal and everyday right and it's going to be amazing when it happens and they'll get $100 million in funding because it's AI and security and it'll take us all by storm.
Speaker 1:Chad. What does this mean for TrustMap and your customers? The AI, or wiz, wiz oh or is there an AI, a wink, wink, all right let's stick to the wiz topic here, um, all right, all right, my job is to get the information out of. Your job is to keep secrets for our customers.
Speaker 2:this is great news because and again it's we don't know what six months from now is going to look like with inside of Google right, how are they going to deploy it? Make it available. Will it be available through Google Cloud customers, for example? Enable us to with a checkbox customer through our interface, a checkbox they could activate with. Today, they have to enter API keys and you know authentication string, but a checkbox is even faster, so that would be amazing.
Speaker 1:I'm really surprised that AI wasn't a bigger part of this conversation. I would think that if there was going to be a $32 billion acquisition, it would have been an AI company. Is Wiz equipped with AI? I mean, is AI a part of this at all?
Speaker 2:Well, think about Google for a moment. They're probably not going to, you know, subpar their own AI investments and they are in the best position to create an AI engine with all the data that they have at their fingertips, and they've got far more developers than I'm sure Wiz could even imagine to have.
Speaker 1:What about the other way around? Google using its AI technology and bolting that on to Wizz? What does that do?
Speaker 2:That could be amazing. It would be amazing, yeah, I mean write a storybook. I mean the opportunities are probably numerous on what you could do in that scenario.
Speaker 3:Wow, yeah, reconfigure my AWS infrastructure to save me 90% of the costs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 1:Wow, what else? What else could happen?
Speaker 2:Well, anything could happen, I suppose Anything yeah, it's too early to hypothesize right now.
Speaker 3:Look at, Google is going to have every AWS customer's cloud configuration. Take their AI, take Genie 3 or 4 or 5, whatever we're up to and refactor it into a Google cloud deployment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, the possibilities are endless Like Gemini Genie and cloud security are endless. Like Gemini Genie and cloud security, I mean that would even have trickle down effects in your line of business Chad I mean, even your customers may see the benefits of that of an AI-driven whiz bolted on. So AI bolted on to whiz whiz bolted on to TrustMap, that could do a lot for customers in terms of understanding their security posture, understanding where they are and then, of course, being able to build a roadmap. And I mean AI plus security. It's just going to get bigger and bigger and bigger. But anyway, yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 2:I was just going to say use cases are endless. But you know I'm I want to be pragmatic here and cautious because the deal isn't completely done and gone through legal yet. So Right.
Speaker 1:Could this? Could all just be dust in the wind for all we know? I'll probably. I hope not, but we could be doing another show in a week talking about why did the wins acquisition not go through? Did the WINS acquisition not go through Exactly?
Speaker 2:Richard, great seeing you again.
Speaker 3:Likewise Chad, Really good.
Speaker 1:All right, richard. Last thoughts.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so super exciting for the industry. Right to have a massive acquisition like this. Every acquisition spawns new startups and inspires investors. Right, Because it's been a long time since an investor like CyberStarts can talk about, you know, returning the entire value of the fund in a single deal, which is what they all attempt to do. So here's you know, it happened in cybersecurity and I'm sure there are a lot of. There were a lot of participants in investing in Wiz, so they're all pretty proud of themselves today and kudos to them. In the first place, because it was a risk. It was always a risk, and so I've got high hopes for the industry having a really good year and I look forward to seeing all those. Of course, this is I'm speaking in my own self-interest, because I'm looking forward to seeing all the startups and being able to track them and help people understand them.
Speaker 1:If this is an indicator of something, this would be an indicator of what that other companies should be paying attention to.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yet again, it highlights something that John Pescatori told me the final straw for the cloud, demonstrating that security generated the cloud generated all these security opportunities. Z-scaler is another one, and all of these vendors are that the next wave is going to be an AI. We know that's going to happen. Palo Alto is already assuming it's happened right, and they're talking about claiming their share of the $34 billion AI security market, which is silly, because the market doesn't exist yet. The players are all lined up ready to go spending people's money, but customers aren't buying from any of them yet the same is true for media and cybersecurity.
Speaker 1:Talking about cybersecurity is never going to be the next big thing in media, but it's always a part of the conversation and always will be so. With that, richard, thanks for stopping by, as always, good to see you, and as things evolve, I might ping you again, because you are the man. I appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 2:All right, thanks, I'm just going to stop it here.