#35 - Land Use, Tax Breaks and Conservation Myths with Jody Barbour

Conservation easements are one of the most powerful—but misunderstood—tools available to landowners today. They protect property, preserve family legacies, and offer significant tax benefits at both the federal and state level.

In this episode of The American Land Seller Podcast, host Koby Rickertsen is joined by Jody Barbour of Conservation Tax Credit Transfer (CTCT) to break down how these voluntary legal agreements work, who they’re for, and how they can generate immediate financial returns without giving up ownership or land use.

👉 Learn how landowners across the country are using conservation easements to:
• Maintain full use of their land for farming, ranching, and building
• Qualify for federal tax deductions that carry forward for up to 15 years
• Tap into transferable state tax credits in states like Colorado and Virginia
• Reduce estate value and simplify family succession planning
• Establish building envelopes and maintain future flexibility
• Access bipartisan legislation aimed at national tax credit programs

We also bust the biggest myths—like the idea that the government takes over your land—and spotlight real success stories. If you’re a landowner, broker, attorney, or advisor looking for smart ways to protect and profit from your land, this episode is packed with insight.

📞 For personalized info, reach Jody at 303-988-1700 or jody@taxtransfer.net
🌐 Learn more: https://taxtransfer.com

1.   Instagram
2.   Facebook
3.   LinkedIn

Transcript

Introduction to Conservation Easements

Speaker 1 0:01

Hey everybody, exciting day here for the Lance Hiller podcast, if you hear something a little bit different this week. I just wanted to point out that we are no longer able to use the Canva provided music the Canva provided royalty free music because we have reached so many followers that that is no longer allowed. Our streaming service and YouTube will no longer allow us to use those, and so we had to create our own instrumental music to go along with our podcast. We hope you enjoy it. We would love to hear from you what you think of our new introduction and exit music, and so this is the first day and we hope you enjoy it.

Speaker 1 0:50

Today, on the American Land Seller, we're shining a light on a topic that's often misunderstood conservation easements and the tax credits tied to them. I'm joined by Jody Barber from Conservation Tax Credit Transfer, who's been helping landowners and buyers make the most of these opportunities since 2001. With over 30 years of experience in conservation transactions, real estate law and tax policy, jody brings a wealth of knowledge to the conversation knowledge to the conversation. She not only helps facilitate the transfer of conservation tax credits, but she's also been a key voice in shaping the policies behind them, both at the state and federal level. One of the biggest myths we tackle in this episode is the idea that conservation easement means the land can't be used at all. Spoiler alert that's just not true, whether you're a landowner, investor or broker. This episode breaks down how conservation can protect land and create real financial value.

Speaker 2 1:54

Welcome to the American Land Seller Podcast with your host, kobe Rickardson. Kobe is an accredited land consultant and multi-state land broker with High Point Land Company. Land consultant and multi-state land broker with High Point Land Company. Join us each week as we explore all things land. We bring you fresh insights and expert guests on sales, marketing, regulations, economics and so much more. Visit wwwamericanlandsellercom and find us on one of your favorite podcast platforms.

Speaker 3 2:22

Okay, Kobe and our special guests, let's get started.

Speaker 1 2:27

Hey, welcome back to the Land Seller Podcast. This is going to be a great episode, I can feel it. We have Jody Barber. From where are you from, jody? Conservation Tax Credit Transfer is the name of the company, but I just call you the conservation easement guru. You know everything there is to know about conservation easements, definitely in Colorado, but I know you keep your finger right on the pulse of everything else that's going on in our country. Great to have you here, jodi. How are you today?

Speaker 3 3:02

I'm doing great, kobe, thank you so much, and thank you for having me and, man, that's a tall order. I know everything.

Speaker 1 3:08

I mean, you don't have to know a whole lot to show me up, but we are going, I know we're going to learn a ton today. So if you can just kind of I know this is kind of one of those things that there's really not a whole lot of middle ground in it. I know there's a lot of unknown, like people don't know what we're talking about, and so that's kind of our goal today is educate people on what it is and how it can be useful. Depending on what state you're from, I think my brothers and sisters in the sales world out there would tell you it's either the greatest thing since sliced bread or this is a nightmare, and so kind of explain what is a conservation easement, why do we have them? The floor is yours.

Speaker 3 3:56

Sure, thank you, and thank you for having me, kobe. So a conservation easement is really? It's a legal, you know, binding agreement that's between a landowner who owns their land, of course, and an easement holder that can be a land trust, sometimes a municipality, open space agencies, trust for public land, those types of entities that are conservation minded and it's really an agreement between those two parties that restricts the land from certain development sometimes certain uses, but more likely certain development and protects that land in perpetuity. So a lot of misconceptions about conservation easements are that if a landowner does a conservation easement they no longer own their land. That is not the case. A landowner absolutely still owns their land. They can still farm and ranch it, they can still lease it, mortgage it, do most of those things. They just can't develop it at will like a landowner that doesn't have a conservation easement. Essentially, a landowner is saying, hey, I've got this bundle of sticks and I'm going to give this bundle away to this easement holder to protect my land in perpetuity.

Speaker 3 5:06

So, that's quick and dirty of what a conservation easement is and what it does.

Speaker 1 5:12

Yeah, I think there's a lot of misconceptions on it, because I think a lot of people first of all think it's all government which I mean. As far as I'm concerned, I don't think it is correct.

Speaker 3 5:23

It is not the only way a government is involved. If a landowner uses the federal deduction or takes that option of a federal deduction, you have tax stuff to deal with, and that's normal for anybody who has to file a tax return. There are government agencies, like in Colorado. Some landowners work with Colorado Parks and Wildlife CPW. So unless you're choosing a governmental entity to work with, the government's not involved at all. So you're right, that is a very common misconception. I hear a lot of landowners saying I don't want the government telling me what to do. Well, that's not the case.

Speaker 1 5:57

Right, and so, and then I think, like another thing that's really hard for people to wrap their head around it is it's just a true easement. It's just you are agreeing to put a restriction, or you know, on your property for an amount of money, right? So they're buying basically part of the use or part of the function of your property, and and so it's just basically a true easement, correct?

Speaker 3 6:24

Right, it's. It's just like you know in terms of a utility easement. You have a utility on easement on your land where somebody has to come in and if there's something that that utility needs to be um fixed or there's an issue with it, you know the utility company has a right to come on your land to take care of what they need to take care of. Conservation easements are very similar. You agree to work with whatever partner you're working with. Usually here in Colorado and really across the country, it's usually with a land trust and that land trust you're giving that land trust the right to come on your property at least once a year to monitor that conservation easement and make sure that the landowner is complying with the terms of those conservation easements. So it's really a great partnership. You know most of our landowners, if not all of our landowners, have fantastic relationships with that easement holder. You know, and they're usually, they're always alerted that, hey, we're coming out on this date, does this date work for you? We're going to come out and do our monitoring and kind of how that monitoring works.

Speaker 3 7:23

Since we're talking about that piece, when a landowner does a conservation easement, they have to do what's called a baseline report or a present conditions report, where a qualified biologist will come in and do a verbal snapshot, if you will, of what the property is before the conservation easement is on it. How many acres are there? What plant life, what wildlife is on there? Are there improvements already on there? Is there a home? Is there a barn? Is there ag headquarters? So they document all of those things and they take lots of photographs and then they have maps of what the soils are, what the conditions are. So the land trust or the easement holder will use that document in perpetuity to see what changes were made on the land, if any, and if any of those changes violate the conservation easement, then they'll have a different discussion about what's going on. Why is that there? We need to get this corrected.

What Conservation Easements Actually Protect

Speaker 1 8:17

So, and again, it's not necessarily that you'll never be able to build on your property again. It's kind of setting the rules correct, like I. You know like it's like hey, what do you call it? An envelope? You know like, so, talk just a little bit about that, how you can have. You know, you just set the rules with whichever partnership partner you're partnering with, and then you know it's. It's not really as restrictive as a lot of people think.

Speaker 3 8:45

Right, right, I mean conservation easements. They're, you know, no two are alike, because every landowner has different, you know ideas of what they want to do, different goals of what they want to do, and each easement holder has a different mission of what they're going to accept, what they're not going to accept. So that's another misconception. People think, oh, if I do a conservation easement I can do nothing with my land. Well, that's only if you agree that nothing's ever going to happen. And there are some landowners that say, hey, I want this property to stay pristine, I want it in this natural state or I want it to stay in agriculture forever. So if they agree to that, that happens. But they often will reserve building envelopes for the future. Because, again, the conservation easement's a little, I always think it's a little pretentious, I don't know if that's the right word, but basically the current landowner is dictating what's going to happen from the grave. Right, they're saying, because conservation easements, to get any of the tax benefits, they have to be perpetual. So, but that's an awful long time and we certainly won't be here. So a lot of landowners will work with land trusts to say, hey, you know, I need a building envelope for my great grandson, who's two at the moment, to have a home and or, you know, to have another ag headquarters so they can continue to operate the land.

Speaker 3 10:15

So easements, conservation easements, can certainly be flexible depending on the amount of land and, again, the agreements that you have with that easement holder. You can subdivide a portion. A lot of conservation easements say you can't subdivide it. But if you have a thousand acres, let's say, and you want to put your conservation easement on 500 acres but leave the other 500 acres alone, there's often agreements that you can say, well, I'm going to sell this 500 acres separate from that 500 acres. So they're flexible. But yes, building envelopes, all of these things are things that people need to consider. It's, you know, forever is a long time. So be smart about what you're thinking about with your conservation easement, what you might need in the future.

Speaker 1 11:00

You know that's super smart that you say that, that you need to really think about exactly what you're agreeing to before you get into it, because I think a lot of these easements are wildlife driven. I may be wrong on that, but I think they are, you know, at this point, like we want to. You know, keep the habitat the way it is, and we don't want to have a bunch of development screwing up where the elk are at or where the moose or whatever, and so I mean that's just kind of the way that I understand it. Am I wrong on that?

Speaker 3 11:36

No, you're absolutely correct, and I think a lot of people farmers and ranchers they're stewards of the land and when they farm and ranch that brings in a lot of wildlife. You know you have all these meadows and the mountains, or you know wherever that bring in the elk, bring in the deer. So conservation easements and you know, even without conservation easements, when lands are in ag production, they're creating or providing habitat for all kinds of wildlife and a conservation easement just enhances that and ensures that into the future.

Speaker 1 12:10

Yeah, like I said, I think they can be great tools, definitely. I think that and I want to take a quick break here. If you don't mind and come back and talk just dig a little bit more into what are the benefits of putting your stuff into an easement.

Speaker 1 12:29

So if you got a few minutes, let's just let's take a quick break and we will be right back. The American Land Seller podcast is brought to you in part by LandHubcom. Join us today and experience the expertise of LandHub's land marketing professionals, whether you're buying or selling. Let us show you the way in the ever-evolving world of land transactions. Visit LandHubcom and discover what the future of land marketing looks like. Landhubcom, where your land journey begins. Like landhubcom, where your land journey begins. And we're back with Jody Barber from tax, let's see Conservation tax credit transfer.

Speaker 3 13:15

All right, I'll learn it. You got it right.

Speaker 1 13:19

And you can just say CTCT is just fine. That's why we have three segments on this Jody, because by the time we get to the third segment I'll have 50% of this learned.

Speaker 2 13:26

So it's great.

Speaker 1 13:29

All right. So we are talking about conservation easements. This is Jody's expertise. She has made a career pretty much out of helping people with this in Colorado. But we're going to talk about right now what I know a lot of people are probably like all right, we're locking this land into a certain use or out of a certain use, for it's the rest of existence. Let's talk about what the benefit is. Why would somebody want to do this?

Common Misconceptions and Land Uses

Speaker 3 13:59

sure there there are multiple benefits of why somebody would want to do a conservation easement. And the one thing I like to make landowners aware of, because I think again it's one of those misconceptions they're not for everybody and they are certainly voluntary. You do not have to do a conservation easement if you don't want to. And again, a conservation easement to me is really the ultimate private property right. But there are several benefits. Let's talk about kind of the financial benefits. Then we'll get into you know, why somebody might want to do this for their own, for their own land. Financial benefits there are. There's a federal deduction that landowners can get for putting their land in a conservation easement. A lot of landowners don't have enough income to utilize a federal deduction, so it doesn't work for everybody. But the one thing to know about the federal deduction piece when a landowner donates a conservation easement, that federal deduction is available to them for the year that they donate that land in a conservation easement and then for 15 years after, so a total of 16 years so that deduction can be carried forward. That can help with the state planning, the state taxes, that sort of thing.

Speaker 3 15:07

There are some states that have tax credits, state income tax credits, which is what Colorado has, virginia has, georgia and New Mexico. Georgia and New Mexico their programs are smaller than they are in Colorado and Virginia. But for my home state, landowners can put their land into a conservation easement and if they do, you know, follow all the um, state and federal regulations, they can earn a state income tax credit. Then that tax credit again. They don't have enough income to use that tax credit, so it can be sold one time to a taxpayer who has a high income tax liability. So you know what that looks like is. A landowner does their conservation easement, they get their state tax credit. That in Colorado is basically an approved transaction by the state. Then they work with somebody like me, a tax credit facilitator, to help them sell that tax credit. So the landowner is getting, you know, cash in their pocket from selling the tax credit that they can use to put back in their operation, help mom and dad retire, send their kids to college.

Speaker 3 16:07

Whatever the case is, the buyer of that tax credit buys that credit at a discount, but they can apply the full value of the face tax credit to their liability. So they're getting a savings on their tax liability. And then Colorado is getting land that's conserved without having to pay a dollar for dollar for that. They've just agreed to a foregone amount of revenue for a period of time in exchange for these tax credits. So it's really a win-win-win.

Speaker 3 16:35

Then the other benefit some conservation easements are purchased in what's called a bargain sale transaction. I know Florida has a very robust program where landowners are paid to do a conservation easement and that's usually called a bargain sale conservation easement because it's rarely at full fair market value, it's at a discount, hence the bargain sale. The important thing to know about a bargain sale transaction you can get paid for that conservation easement and those funds qualify for a 1031 transaction as well. So somebody can do a conservation easement, get paid for that portion. They can take those proceeds and then buy another piece of land or buy another investment in a 1031 exchange.

Speaker 1 17:18

Okay, so that's a lot of great information. Let me think about this for a second. It's a lot of great information. Let me think about this for a second. It's a lot of information. In Colorado, right where you're at, you said at one time you can sell the tax deduction, or is it a deduction?

Speaker 3 17:41

And that's the distinction. Is it a deduction? And that's the distinction. You know there are states, there are tax credits, which is a dollar for dollar credit and a deduction, and the federal deduction is a reduction of your adjusted gross income. So very separate and people confuse the two quite a bit. But they are vastly different how they're used.

Speaker 1 17:59

Okay, so in Colorado you're talking about it's a credit, correct? Okay. So going back to how does that work where you can sell the credit. So you basically, let's say landowner X decides hey, I want to preserve this 800 acres of ranch land that I have into a conservation program. Walk me through. How does that work? How do we decide what the value of the easement is?

Speaker 3 18:36

Sure, the value of the easement is determined by an appraisal.

Speaker 3 18:42

So it has to be a qualified and again, all the things that I talk about are based on the federal regulations for qualified conservation easement contributions and Colorado follows those laws.

Speaker 3 18:56

So you have to have a qualified appraisal by a qualified appraiser and those you know, qualified appraiser and appraisal are IRS terms, but that's how the value of the conservation easement is determined. So basically it's two appraisals in one appraisal report. The appraiser looks at the value of the property at its fair market value before that conservation easement is placed on the land. Then they'll do an analysis of the value of the property as if the easement is already placed on the land or if the easement is already placed on the land, and then that's a separate value. The difference between the before and after value is your conservation easement value. That value determines your federal deduction and also determines the Colorado state income tax credit. So here in Colorado our regulations provide that a landowner can get up to 90% of the value of a conservation easement in a state tax credit. So say you have a conservation easement value of a million dollars, your tax credit is going to be $900,000.

Speaker 1 20:06

Hmm, that's okay. So that that answers that question for me. Is it just land, or is there water rights, or is there other stuff that you can put into these things, or is it just like?

Speaker 3 20:19

Most uh, most landowners who have water rights. If they're doing a conservation easement, most of the time those water rights are tied to the land and encumbered by the conservation easement as well. So yes, there will be. You know, sometimes they're just inherent in the land, so there's not a separate water value. But if there are valuable water rights that you know are in the market, as they are in some of our areas here in Colorado, then the appraiser will appraise those water rights as well and that will have a separate value. But they're all added together to determine the value of the conservation easement. Same with mineral rights. Mineral rights are usually inherent in the land, but if there's a situation where there is a valuable market for those minerals, there might be a separate valuation for the minerals as well.

Speaker 1 21:09

Okay, yeah, that's. That's kind of what I wondered was, because it's all it can be, all encompassing of. It's more than just one stick out of your bundle of sticks to your earlier point Right Right.

Speaker 3 21:19

You know, and then you know, conversely, there are landowners that have, um like a small, uh, gravel pit on their property and they can either include it in their conservation easement or exclude it. It's it's easier to exclude, exclude, just you know, carve that out from the conservation easement. It just makes things a little bit easier for everybody involved. But again, those are all considerations that that people need to take, you know, think about when they're doing a conservation easement.

Speaker 1 21:46

Yeah, no, that's a, that's the. There is a lot to consider when you're doing this. I mean, honestly, I think, like I did some, I sold some property down by down in Crawley County, colorado, and you know like it would have been nice for those people to not been able to give up all their water rights down there, because I, you know, it's kind of like a little bit of a desert part of the country because there's no, they don't have. You know, everybody kind of sold off their water rights when, when the farming was tough in that area and right the buy and dry.

Speaker 1 22:22

Yeah, so that was kind of kind of a hard. Hard on the whole area down there For sure, but no of a hard, hard on the whole area down there for sure, but no, um, so you work in different like. You work in colorado, but you also we talked about that you pay attention to different parts of the country. Give us kind of like, some drastic differences on like. What a conservationism, a difference in like, say, one part of the country to another. You know we'd already talked I don't know if we said this in this part but you had talked about in Florida, where you can actually use some of the conservation easement program for a 1031 exchange.

Speaker 3 23:02

Right, right, so, and really any part of the country, if you are paid for a portion of your conservation easement and it can be a combination you can get paid for a portion, donate a portion, get a tax credit in Colorado, all of those things can happen, but with those, you know, florida is one state where they will. They have a pretty robust program. Dean Saunders, out of Florida, works on these, you know. I think that's the bread and butter of his business, but if anybody has questions about Florida he's the expert to contact there. Um, but Florida has that program where they will pay landowners to put their land into a conservation easement. Um.

Speaker 3 23:41

Other States that don't have tax credits, um, I think New York is one of them where their conservation easements, their their credit, if you will, is tied to their real property taxes.

Financial Benefits and Tax Credits

Speaker 3 23:50

Um, so if you have a conservation easements, their credit, if you will, is tied to their real property taxes. So if you have a conservation easement or do a conservation easement, you'll get some kind of savings on your local county real estate taxes. I think California is similar. So they're really they differ all across the country and I don't know if you want to go into this now, but there's some colleagues and I are working on getting a federal conservation tax credit bringing the Colorado and Virginia models up to the federal level. So this, you know, these tax credits can be available to everyone across the country. You know, sometimes it's like, well, why can Colorado just take care of it? Or, you know, have this benefit? Or Virginia, you know, it would be great to have this tool available to all the states. And which kind of leads into the next benefit, other than financial benefits, of why somebody will do a conservation easement if you're ready to go there.

Speaker 1 24:49

Yeah, let's take a break real quick and then, on the other side, let's dig into that, because that is something that I think, when people understand more about it, I think most people are going to be on board with this bill that you guys are proposing and that the Realtors Land Institute, for one, I know, is all in on. So, if you don't mind, we got about one more segment left. If you don't mind hanging out?

Speaker 3 25:19

I'm here.

Speaker 1 25:20

All right, we will be right back.

Speaker 4 25:23

Land isn't just dirt. It's where memories are made, families are raised and livelihoods are built. But when it comes time to sell or buy, the weight of the decision is heavy. Where do you even start? Who can you trust to guide you? For too long, land transactions have been treated like a simple exchange Numbers on a paper, a signature on a line. But it's more than that. At High Point Land Company, we don't just list land, we walk it. We learn its story and we find the right buyer who understands its worth. You are not just another deal. You are the steward of something bigger and we're here to help you navigate every step of the way when it's time to sell, when it's time to buy. We're here Because land is more than just land. It's your legacy.

Speaker 1 26:52

Hey, we're back here with Jody from Conservation Tax. Credit Transfer See I told you.

Speaker 4 26:58

Jody three times and I'm good you got it.

Speaker 1 27:01

Right, I forget what your last name is now. No, I'm just kidding, it's Jody Barber. Conservation Tax Credit Transfer. I appreciate you so much taking the time to go over this with our listeners, because it's an important tool and it's really important to understand, like just the age that we're in. We listen to about a fifth of what reality is on stuff and we've already got our judgment and it's all stupid, right, and so I am from a conservative part of the world and so I understand how, if you only listen to a fifth of what this is, you can kind of get a. This is a California thing, especially in Colorado and Virginia and Florida, where they have really solid programs that can benefit landowners. Um, but um, let's go into um, this law, that um that a bunch of us are working on trying to help you guys get um through the for the federal government to kind of make a conservation easement program more like for the federal government, like it is in Colorado and Virginia, correct, like that's the two models that we're using.

Speaker 3 28:24

Right, you know, if others, you know there are certainly other states that are taking a look at conservation tax credits, similar to Colorado and Virginia, but we're also this tool, like you said. Is it a California thing? Is it a Colorado thing? In my mind, this is an everybody thing. Conservation easements they protect productive properties, they protect wildlife, they protect water. You know our lands are disappearing. Our productive lands are disappearing at an alarming rate, more than a million acres a year, and you know it's predicted that the US will lose about 18.4 million acres by 2040, which is just frightening. So, really, we all need to eat, we all need healthy food, we all need fiber, we all need wildlife habitat. So, you know, I think this is truly a everybody issue, not, you know, conservative, liberal, whatnot? This benefits everyone. So that's the goal of bringing this transferable tax credit model up to the federal level to make this available to all landowners.

Speaker 1 29:38

Yeah Well, and I think to your point earlier in this where you said and you're very clear on it that is not required, it is optional, is it? You know like, just because I don't fix tools doesn't mean somebody doesn't need the leather punch. A tool for somebody is not something that I need, or vice versa.

Federal Legislation and Benefits

Speaker 3 30:05

Yeah, it's just it's another tool in the toolbox and you're right, you don't have to do this. So there are there are folks out there that don't like conservation easements, and that's okay. It's again, it's not for everybody, but it's a tool there for folks who want to use it and it's important. You know we talked a little bit on the last segment about the kind of financial benefits tax benefits to conservation easements. Both you know the federal deduction, some state tax credits, some purchase programs across the country, but some of the other benefits are. You know, conservation easements are very personal. So a lot of the landowners that we work with that I work with you know they're fifth generation farmers and ranchers and they want to keep their land as it is, as it's been, you know, for five generations. So conservation easement can help that landowner keep their land as they've known it and as their great-grandfather and great-great-grandfather have known it. So that's an important tool. It can be used as a state planning tool, you know. It can be used for the next generation also to take over the land, especially through those tax credits. Land is very expensive and you hear this all the time. Farmers and ranchers are land rich and cash poor, and it's very true. So having a federal transferable tax credit can help the next generation take over the land without having to, you know, pay the fair market value for it. It can put some cash into mom and dad's pocket so they can retire and move on down to their next phase of life and the next generation can take over the land at a more affordable rate, if you will.

Speaker 3 31:47

And then the opposite is true. There are a lot of younger generations that are not coming back to the farm or the ranch. They've gone off and they're living in the city and they don't want to come back. And it is often that conservation easements will squash all the arguing between family members of what's going to happen to the land when mom and dad are gone. Mom and dad are gone, you know. A conservation easement can keep it as it has been but allow the family to sell it down the road. But you know, they know it's going to stay in its natural state or in its ag production. And then conservation easements also help beginning farmers and ranchers get into farming and ranching, because conservation easements generally do reduce the value of the land. So those are some of the other benefits of doing conservation easements, and again, they are very personal. It's not, they're not for everybody, but they work for a lot of folks.

Speaker 1 32:44

Well, and you know what's interesting, like when we were all talking about this in at the land conference a while back, we were talking about how this is kind of a bipartisan bill Because honestly, I can see the third district congressman from Nebraska being on board with this because farmers can benefit from it. It's not changing Like we can't. You know we're not saying you can't plant corn anymore, we're actually just saying is you know, kind of go look and see where that envelope of future development might be on this? We'll take that out. This is how much the property's worth. You know it's worth X amount and now we've locked that into to your point. You know the fifth generation, the sixth generation farmer and we're able to take that income off of it. Or more liberal leaning people. You know it's great for, you know the conservation of, you know, wildlife or whatever it is that they happen to be into the 30 for 30 people. You know like that 30 in 30 or whatever it is.

Speaker 3 34:04

Right, 30 by 30.

Speaker 1 34:05

It kind of works right into that right, Because that's what they're essentially using was conservation programs.

Speaker 3 34:11

Right right, because that's what they're essentially using was conservation programs. Right right, you know conservation easements. They've been around for a long time. There are many conservation easements not all of them, but there are many conservation easements that have no-till provisions. So they're also sequestering carbon. They're keeping that carbon underground where they're not developing the land, tilling up the land. So that's another huge, huge benefit.

Speaker 1 34:33

Yeah, no, that's. That is pretty cool. So what so far? I mean, we're actually quite a ways along on the lawmaking process, right? The way I understand it is, there's a provisional bill or there's the draft.

Speaker 3 34:47

At least that's been written revising that draft a little bit. Um, now that we're a little bit further down the road and getting some things figured out. Um, we've been having meetings on the Hill in DC with folks already and that's been very, very positive. Um, partnership of lane, uh, partnership of rangeland trust they're called port. Um, they're kind of spearheading this a little bit along with me and my colleague, ariel steel. Um and's with Tax Credit Connection. A lot of people confuse us that we're the same organization. We're different but we work very well together. We're the friendliest competitor I've ever had and she does a great job.

Speaker 1 35:29

The port is really spearheading this.

Speaker 3 35:32

We're working alongside them to create this bill. The next step is getting the bill scored to see where we are Um but uh, and also to find some some sponsors for the bill.

Speaker 1 35:45

Yeah Well, and I thought what was interesting when talking to him about it was like there were on both sides of the aisle there were people that were already interested in you know, like keeping track of where this is at, and that there were some, some of the folks that were like this is probably not the time in history for me to be the big champion of it, but, uh, but you know, just cause of the political divide that we have, but, um, but, I you know, like I really do believe that if we can explain this to like the benefit to, uh, to everybody, I do believe this would be a bipartisan bill and I think that you know, president trump immediately would see the, the benefit of this right.

Speaker 3 36:26

Yeah, the other the other huge benefit. Um, you know, over the years we've had a lot of foreign interest buying up ag land in our country and particularly around missile sites. Um, so conservation easements, you know. So, conservation easements, you know, these conservation easements and this tax credit can go a long way in providing some national security where landowners aren't being forced to sell their land, that they get some income. They can get some income from this federal tax credit and be able to stay on the land and again keep that land available for the next generation or even, if they're not related, the next generation, whether they're, you know, family or not.

Speaker 1 37:03

Yeah, okay, so I've been pretty pleasant to you so far, but, jody, I'm going to push.

Speaker 1 37:09

I'm going to push back because I've heard some things that that over, you know, even in just the discussions that we had, because I did go to the table with Ariel and learn about what she, what you know, some of the stuff that she was talking about. And we had a guy out of Iowa that was like not a fan of this at all because in his community they had an area set for development that somebody snuck in, bought a big chunk of property in the middle of this urban sprawl that they had, you know, 25 year plan for the city and he bought this big chunk and slapped it into an easement and kind of ruined their day and there was nothing they could that are like you know. Is there a possibility where we you know in the bill that you can work with municipalities and things like that to have like a halo of a certain area where it's exempt or something like that? Or do you think it is what it is? I guess, enjoy your refuge in the middle of the city.

Future Considerations and Final Thoughts

Speaker 3 38:16

Yeah, well, a couple of thoughts I have on that. One of the biggest do your homework, you know. If you're looking at a piece of land to do development down the road, or you have an area where you're doing development down the road, you know, pull title commitments, get title commitments so you can see. You know, is there a conservation easement on that land? If there is, what does it say? You know?

Speaker 3 38:43

I think that's another misconception. People see that a property has a conservation easement and they immediately turn and run. It's like no, take the time to read it and understand it, ask questions, reach out to the easement holder, see what they have to say. But you know, to your point of is this going to cause problems in the future? You know again, we have landowners that we're trying to dictate what's going to happen to this property in perpetuity. That's what the laws say. Well, that is a mighty long time and I think it's naive of us to think well, you know, this is going to stay like that forever. Certainly that's the intention. Intention, but things happen.

Speaker 3 39:19

Most conservation easements, if not all of the qualified conservation easements, have provisions for what happens if there's condemnation. You know what happens if we need to take an easement or, you know, state whatever needs to take a portion or needs to take this conservation easement for the greater good, right Through eminent domain. There are provisions in the conservation easement that happens where the land trust is paid a certain amount of money, the landowner is paid a certain amount of money. If there's a federal partner that was in there, like NRCS, that provided some grant money towards a bargain sale of this conservation easement, they'll get a piece of the pie as well. So there are provisions. Of course that's the ultimate goal. None of us are going to be here, you know, in 100 years or shorter, to see what's going to happen. So it's like with any other law. You know things evolve over time. You know we used to have prohibition of alcohol. Now we have, you know, legalized marijuana all over the country.

Speaker 3 40:13

And so it'll be one of those things that will evolve over time, and we do the best that we can with the brains that we have today to make this work um for everyone.

Speaker 1 40:25

Nice.

Speaker 1 40:26

Then that kind of brings up my I know we talked about this during the break, but and then I think you did a good job of answering this of what your thoughts are on.

Speaker 1 40:34

Like my feeling is with with this is you're probably going to have our great-grandkids or great-great-grandkids that are going to be, you know, like, how dare you decide what we could do with this property?

Speaker 1 40:44

You know, like, could you imagine if somebody in the 1800s decided what you could do with the land with you know, with your knowledge of what was going on at the time? You know we would have no space for data centers and stuff like that, and so you know. So it'll be interesting to see how you know that plays out in the future, but for right now, I think it is a pretty incredible tool for people. Not only you know, it's a cool, good, great tool for the organizations that are trying to do conservation programs that are not the federal government, you know that are out there saying, hey, ducks, unlimited, different organizations that's one that comes to my mind. That I know plays in this a little bit but just that's their passion, that's what they raise money for and this is something that gives them the opportunity to protect the habitat as well, as it also helps people protect their you know, their family farm and things.

Speaker 3 41:40

So Right, right and provide, you know, food and fiber for all of us down the road. Again, with that, with the incredible amount of land that's being bought up and being developed, you know it's truly important. This is we need to feed, feed our country. We need, we need fiber. No no, they're, they're leather too.

Speaker 1 42:03

There's a lot, a lot going on there in that little, my little guy. Yeah.

Speaker 3 42:09

And you know we just play. We're playing, in my mind, a small part, but the work is so important, um, and so fulfilling. And again, you know, you said it again it's just a tool, it's not a requirement. It's not dictating what everybody has to do. It's just it's an available tool in the toolbox and if it works for somebody to use it, fantastic. If it doesn't, you know, move on down the road.

Speaker 1 42:33

Yeah, nope, that is an excellent point. Uh, wrap it up. What else? Any any final thoughts that you have, jody on um, how do we get ahold of you if we want to talk about conservation easements and the privacy of the phone call with you?

Speaker 3 42:47

Absolutely. Um, they can reach me my. My phone number is 3 0 3 9 8 8 1700,. Uh, 3 0 3 9 8 8 1 7 0 0. You can reach out to us to ask about, you know, conservation easements questions, whatnot. We also work, we consult with landowners, who you know. If they don't have these state benefits, tax credits and whatnot, or they just want some guidance, we consult with landowners to kind of help them through all the steps and understand the steps of what a conservation easement is, and that's not tied just to Colorado. We can do that really anywhere across the US. Our website is taxtransfercom, so you can find some information there and we're getting a. Our website's going to be growing, so it's a little bit outdated right now and just older school, but something we'll be updating here soon, so watch out for that. But feel free to reach out to us while we're in Colorado. Again, we can help landowners across the country.

Speaker 1 43:47

That is awesome, and I will also put your contact information in the show notes so that people email is.

Speaker 3 43:54

Jody at tax transfernet and and that's J-O-D-Y at TaxTransfernet.

Speaker 1 44:02

All right, jody. Well, thank you so much again for taking the time to go through this and explaining it in a way that even I can understand it. So I know a good solid majority of the people listening can get a grasp on this, and I think we hit on the important parts. That again voluntary. It's an easement, it's. You know.

Speaker 1 44:24

It's not the government making you do something, it's not part of the 30, it is part of 30 for 30, or 30 and 30, but it's not, and so some of those things that I think a lot of people got hung up on, I think they may have learned today.

Speaker 3 44:36

So right, Right and again, you know, feel free to call and ask questions. Would love to have feedback, what you think. If you're not a fan, tell me why not. You know I'm happy to listen, happy to answer questions and provide some education as well.

Speaker 1 44:50

Yeah, perfect, all right, all right, jody.

Speaker 2 44:52

Well, thanks again, and we will see you all down the road as we wrap up another episode of the American Land Seller Podcast. Thank you for joining us. Visit wwwamericanlandsellercom and find us on one of your favorite podcast platforms. If you would be so kind and you enjoyed today's insights, please like, subscribe, rate, follow and review us on whatever app you are listening or watching on. Connect with us on social media for updates. Until next week. Kobe wishes you success in your land endeavors. God bless you and have a great week.

Speaker 1 45:27

The American Land Seller is brought to you in part by LandHubcom. Are you in the market for the perfect piece of land? Look no further than LandHubcom, your solution to the biggest challenges facing land buyers and sellers today. At LandHub, we're revolutionizing land transactions by effectively connecting buyers and sellers. Say goodbye to the struggle of finding or marketing land for sale. We understand the power of new media marketing, leveraging social media and targeted ads to bring together the ideal audience for all property types. Join us today and experience the expertise of LandHub's land marketing professionals. Whether you're buying or selling, let us show you the way in the ever-evolving world of land transactions. Visit LandHubcom and discover what the future of land marketing looks like.

Speaker 1 46:18

Landhubcom, where your land journey begins, and High Point Land Company. When it comes to buying and selling land, high Point Land Company sets the standard for excellence across the Midwest and beyond. Our expert land specialists bring unmatched market knowledge and a personal touch to every single transaction, whether it's a farm, ranch, recreational or even investment property. We provide the expertise and integrity you can trust. Looking to buy or sell, we offer a premier selection of properties and a marketing strategy designed to get you results. From productive farmland to recreational retreats, we help you maximize your investment. Visit wwwhighpointlandcompanycom today and experience the difference. High Point Land Company a true leader in land sales.