Gut Instinct: Microbiome diversity innovation for high performing animals.

Gut health isn't just a human fad. It’s a years-long trend that has proven to have major impacts on your overall well-being. In this episode hear how more than a decade-long study has led to major breakthroughs in the microbiome for the animals we love. 

Guests are Purina Animal Nutritions’ Mary Beth Gordon, Senior Director of Equine Technical Innovation, and Robert Jacobs, Research Manager, Equine Innovation.

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Transcript

 Tomorrow. It's never a guarantee unless we take care of today. We are a cooperative, grounded in 100 years of forward thinking ever since our beginning in 1921. It's the pursuit of a reliable food supply, a sustainable future, and vibrant communities for all of us. Rooted in the promise of a brighter future.

This is rooted in Tomorrow, the podcast by Land O'Lakes, Inc. I'm your host, Kim Olson. Join us for stories of innovators, change makers, and the. Modern entrepreneurs who work the land,

The microbiome, it's now mainstream. This year alone, gut health was featured in the New York Times list of health trends defining the year. It was also included in McKinsey's list of trends defining the wellness market, and amassed over 1 billion views on gut talk TikTok videos. So why should it be any different when it comes to the animals?

We care for about 2 million households, own horses in the US and similar to humans, horses need to have a healthy diet. After years of research and the largest microbiome sample collection in history, land O'Lakes Animal Nutrition business has a major breakthrough On this episode, meet Mary Beth Gordon, senior Director of Equine Technical Innovation, and Robert Jacobs, research Manager at Equine Innovation.

Welcome. Welcome. I, I am tempted to say Mary Beth. And Robert, but I know you both are PhD, so is it Dr. Gordon and Dr. Jacobs, or do you prefer Mary Beth and Robert? Uh, that Mary Beth and Robert works? I think, uh, for, for both of us, we. We both loved our schooling and, uh, but we want to be as approachable as possible.

Ah, perfect. Well, my, uh, my daughter has a PhD, so I know how hard those are, um, to, uh, to get through and to, uh, accomplish. So congratulations to both of you on that. Um, let's, let's just start with horses. Okay. And Mary Beth, I'm gonna start with you. Um, you've been leading our horse research since 2007, uh, with a PhD in animal science.

And Robert moving over to you, you have a PhD in, um, equine reproductive physiology and have been with Purina for nearly a decade. So long longtime, uh, longtime Purina folks, um, with deep education. Um. You both write for industry magazines and have been on several other, uh, animal nutrition related podcasts.

I, I'm glad I'm not your, uh, your first or second here. This is something you do from time to time. Um, and what I've, um, heard from you both in and listened to is you're really, uh, advocates not only for, um, the products, but for the animals themselves. So let's kind of start out Marybeth with you at, where did your.

Affinity for horses kind of start. Yeah, it's, it's always a great question and I like to answer it by telling people I'm still a crazy horse girl, right? Yeah. I grew up a crazy horse girl, not in a horse family, but begged my parents for riding lessons and my parents are, both teachers had. Three kids. We were not a super wealthy horsey type family, but my parents came up with a way and I was one of those incredibly lucky children that got a pony for Christmas.

And uh, it was incredible. And wow. A moment that changed my life and fact. What was your Pony's name? Her name was Sabrina. Oh, it's a little gray pony. I fell off all the time. She wasn't very well trained, but, uh, it was an incredible experience and I'm just so lucky that I had that kind of support to, to get into my passion.

And the passion has just stayed with me till today, about 40 years later. So, uh, here I am. Amazing, and I, I'm wondering. Robert, do you have a similar story? How, when did you decide this was something you were, uh, interested in? Yeah, you know, growing up, uh, my grandpa had horses. Um, but like Mary Beth, I, I didn't grow up in that horsey family, you know, the, the showing, the competing we would ride, uh, my grandpa's horses in his backyard.

And, you know, looking back now, these were, you know, off track thoroughbreds that I would say had a variable level of being saddle broke. So I'm lucky and happy to still be here and not. Broken in lots of ways from riding those, uh, thoroughbreds. But, you know, my passion for, for equine nutrition really honestly started in, in undergrad and going into grad school.

You know, going to school, I thought the only way to work with the animals was to go to vet school. And so that's what I wanted to do. You know, from a young age I wanted to be a veterinarian. And as I got into to. College and, and undergraduate and graduate school. I learned that there were so many more opportunities and I had such amazing mentors and advisors and professors, uh, going through school and I had the opportunity to, to really dive into the research and, you know, for me, um, the horse.

As a species. Um, it lives in this really remarkable space of a companion animal that we manage very similarly to livestock. And so you've got that connection to the human component that I think is something that is really powerful, right? When you improve the life of the horse, uh, you improve their, their person too.

And you can see that passion and you know, like Mary Beth was saying with her pony, Sabrina, you know, good nutrition is a good pony and maybe, you know. Maybe too good of a pony that that bucked you off a couple times. Um, but Healthy pony. A healthy pony, there you go. But to me, you know, that was part of it.

And then the other part to me was we have so many questions left to answer about equine physiology. And so that's really what drove my passion towards the horse space. And um, yeah, here we are, you know, a decade of Purina later, a decade of college later. Um, you know, here we are. Gosh, so, so, um, interesting you, you kind of developed, uh, the interest when you found there was more places besides, um, being a vet, which is kind of where we all think of.

We wanna work with animals or be a vet. Um. Mary Beth, how did that evolve for you after, uh, you, you know, it solidly put your stake in the ground for, uh, for being a, a horse lover? Yeah, so interestingly, I tried many things in the horse world. I graduated from college, was supposed to go to vet school, but I didn't feel like it was right for me at the time.

Uh, even though I was a pre-vet major. I worked and rode and trained horses for a few years. That wasn't quite the right avenue. Uh, then I actually went into teaching like both my parents and my sister now, and I was a secondary science, uh, biology teacher, and I could ride in the afternoons and ride all summer.

But, um, it again was just not quite the right fit. I needed to be closer to the horses and more in depth in the science. And I've always been a huge nutrition nerd, whether it's a human nutrition, uh, you know, horse nutrition. So I just bit the bullet and said, okay, back to graduate school. I go for the second time and did the PhD, uh, in animal science, specialty in equine nutrition and exercise physiology.

And interestingly. I always, because of my teaching background, always said I was gonna be a college professor and I wanted to teach at a university and have students in a lab and, and have horses that way. But, um. One of my PhD advisors was working part-time for Pur at the time. He said, I think there's gonna be an opening.

You should go interview with them. And I spent one day at the research farm, at the Purina Animal Nutrition Center, and I was sold. I always said, that's it. Okay. That's, uh, I give up on that whole indus uh, the, you know, academia side of things. Yeah. And I wanna be in industry and I wanna go to work for Purina.

So I did that in 2005 and almost 20 years now. Uh, here I am. Well, that must be the way, that must be the way they do it because Mary Beth, when, when I interviewed with Purina, you brought me to the farm as well and, and I can tell you an hour into the interview here, I was like, I will do anything to work at this research farm, this incredible.

It's such an asset. So, so that's a, a great segue. Tell me about the, uh, the nutrition center and the farm in Missouri. I've been there a few times myself and, uh, it is magic just to be surrounded by, um, all of those animals and the people that, uh, love and, and care for 'em. Um, it is a functioning farm as well as a place, uh, where we can, um, learn a lot about, uh, about animals and what.

Makes them healthier. Um, how does the, the research team, I would consider you both on the research team, um, sort of use the farm. What does a, a day look like? Yeah, I'll let Robert, um. Yeah, I'm gonna let Robert lead this and I'm just gonna start with two little points and I'm gonna let him take it away.

'cause Robert is there day to day. He's onsite there right now at the farm with the horses. Um, but what we truly strive to do is, yes, it's a working farm. Our unit is a working horse farm. We have all the same trials and tribulations of any horse farm, right? In terms of mucking stalls and taking care of all the things.

Um, making sure horses don't hurt themselves. But we really do strive to also put incredible cutting edge research into the program. At the same time, we pride ourselves on not just being about product testing. Uh, Robert and I have built a program over the years that in our opinions, and yes, I'm sure they're biased, but are is completely unrivaled.

The industry between the breeding program, the exercise physiology program, the microbiome program, the palatability and digestibility work that we do. It is not just about, well, here's some pretty horses for people to come and pet. And this looks good because it shows we have a research farm. No, no. Our horses work really hard for us doing truly leading science.

Answering a lot of great questions to help horses be healthier. So that's my part. Robert, you take it away from where you're sitting every day at the farm. Yeah. I mean, you, you hit the nail on the head. Um, this place is, is the mecca of, of animal nutrition and speaking just of the horse part of it. 'cause you know, that's our, that's our area.

You know, we don't do product testing here at the farm. We do physiology research and, and we take that physiology research and we combine it with those consumer backed insights that allow us to produce products that truly help. The horse. Um, so, you know, here at the research farm for the, at the equine unit, we've got 73 head of horses.

Um, so it's not a small unit. Um, I've got a, a phenomenal, wonderful team of, of, uh, research technicians and, and my unit manager, uh, that, that work, uh, with these horses every single day. Um, there are companions, there are research partners, um, these horses truly, truly, um. Um, are, are such an incredibly valuable resource.

And so, uh, like Mary Beth said, our research span spans the gamut. We do everything from palatability work all the way to our, our digestive physiology and our microbiome work. Um, we're a working farm. Every single, uh, product, every single supplement, every single feed, uh, that gets put into a bag, uh, checker.

Forward branded bag. You know, it goes through this farm and it gets tested, it rigorously gets developed, um, and it gives us the confidence to say, you know, you. Feed this to your horse. We know how your horse is gonna react. We know how you know the feed is gonna work in your animal. And so, um, you know, this place is, is truly special in what we're able to do here and what we're able to accomplish.

Um, every single day

in season one of the podcasts, we brought you to our Animal Nutrition Research Center in Gray Summit, Missouri. Turn left, then you will arrive at your destination. It is beautiful out this morning and then winter time we can get all the way down to zero and have snow and have things freezing and breaking on us when we're doing stuff.

So we get a little bit of everything out here. Workers are just beginning to show up for the day, not to mention the staff that keeps watch for all the animals overnight. It's here where the Purina team studies the gut health of animals. Takes the research and turns that into innovative products that solve problems, creating healthier animals and higher performers.

Sometimes it's years before a product is ever released, but when it reaches the hands of a horse owner, we know it works.

So, um, Mary Beth. Uh, mentioned one of the projects that you all have been working on. You've both been leading for nearly a decade studying, um, equine microbiome. Um, we've talked about the concept of gut health in the past episodes, but can you just, uh, and either, either one of you, can you give me kind of a, what is a microbiome and why, um, it matters, um, why, uh, folks should be interested in, uh, in that?

Project in particular? Yeah, I mean, the microbiome affects every single thing that we do every single day. So I'll talk about this from the sense of the horse, but you can put humans, chickens, pigs, whatever, whatever species of interest is in there. But the microbiome, so let's break that down real quick.

The microbiome simply defined is all of the bacterial species, and it's other things as well, but we'll focus on the bacteria, but it's all the bacterial species that inhabit a certain area. The horse's body, right? So for us, we're heavily interested in the bacteria that live in the horse's gut. And so why do we care about that?

Well, we care about it because the microbiome interacts with and affects every single area of physiology in the horse. Everything from how, how that horse grows and, and matures all the way to how that horse. Performs right? The horse is a performance animal. They're a purpose-built athlete. Um, all the way to, to things like the horse's mood, the horse's behavior, the horse's longevity in terms of, of, of how well they can, you know, move into that aging process.

And so, as Mary Beth and I, you know, thought about, you know, eight years ago when we were said from our marketing team, Hey, what's the next big thing? You know, for us it was, it was a relatively straightforward answer of the microbiome is the next big thing. The difficult part was. Was the next step of, okay, well how are we gonna evaluate the microbiome, which I can't let Mary Beth get into.

Um, but that's, that's what the microbiome is. It's this powerful, incredibly robust population of these tiny little microorganisms that affect every single, every single part of, of our day-to-day lives and of our horses day-to-day lives. So how do you evaluate that? Something it's so. Vast in a lot of ways.

Yeah. So we were incredibly fortunate that when we brought this project to our leadership teams, we needed an investment to be able to get the technology that we actually need to be able to measure this. So we have, uh, team members in place at our emerging. Technology center at the farm. Um, and we have specialized equipment that allows us to take fecal samples from horses.

And we run them through this DNA sequencer and it tells us all the different bugs that are in the horses digestive tract that are in that sample. And so we had to put that in place first. Um, in addition, in order to truly get an idea of like what is going on with horses. Microbiomes. We needed a lot of samples, way more samples than what we could get just from our horses at the research farm.

And also we needed different breeds of horses and horses with a lot of different management conditions. So we turned to. Veterinarians and horse owners, and we crowdsourced all of our samples to put together our microbiome database. So through our sales team, through, through the vets that we work with, through the different VIPs that we do, um, we asked people, we said, will you be a part of our science?

You can help us, you know, help horses. If you would fill out all this health information about your horses. Take a fecal swab, put it in this special. We sent them out special kits. Yeah, and they took their horses' fecal samples, put them in the, the little, uh, vials with special DNA shield, and then they send them back to our lab, and then we sequenced the DNA and we were then able to come up with a core microbiome for horses and it took over 5,000 samples in the database in order to do it.

Oh my gosh. We're very, very proud. Plus the metadata. We needed all the information about these horses and, um. What was really cool is we were excited when we got our samples from Alaska and Hawaii so we could say that we had samples from horses in all 50 states. So, so really horse owners stepped up to the plate to help us, and that was really cool because you never quite know if someone really, you know, we didn't pay them Yeah.

To send us these samples. They had to want to do it out of the goodness of their heart to contribute to science for horses, and they did. Why, why Purina? Why is this the right company? I, I have a couple thoughts and I'd I'd love to know Roberts too. Yeah. For, for me it definitely is, um, size of scale. One of the reasons I wanted to work for Purina in addition to the farm is I knew that I could.

I that I could affect a lot of horses' lives. You know when you have tens of thousands of horses eating equine senior every day, you make a difference in a lot of horses', health and wellbeing, and. 'cause we do have such great reach into the industry. We were able to get a lot of people on board. And of course we have a great reputation and people know, you know, that we're doing all this good research.

So I think they trust, they trusted us, um, and honestly too. Like it's, it's a good thing and a bad thing that it took us 10 years to get here. I like to say good science takes time, but we're really appreciative that Land O'Lakes allowed it to take the time to develop it. We didn't get 5,000 samples in six months.

You know, we got 5,000 samples over four years. It's, we were playing the long game and we got a lot of support with that, and that's a good thing and we're grateful for it. You know, I think it's, it's because what. You know, it's what we're based on, right? The science is what we're based on, and we know that when you do good science, and Mary Beth says this all the time, you know, good science takes time, but when you do good science, you, you get good results and you, you can produce good things.

Another thing that I would add in there is the passion, right? It's the passion that Mary Beth and I have, but it's the rest of our technical team. We have a phenomenal team of. PhD nutritionists that just have a passion for helping the horse. You know, it's the passion that our sales force has. And as you know, we were able to excite people about this.

And, you know, we, we did this through, uh, you know, putting a unicorn mask on in front of a group of, of 300 veterinarians and, and doing a little act, a little skit, if you will, of how you would swab a unicorn. It was, uh, there's some pictures floating around somewhere. I need to see those. But it, it's. It, you know, we have this passion to help the horse.

Um, and, and I think that, that, that truly is at the heart of, of what we wanted to accomplish, right? We could have set out, and Mary Beth and I get contacted on a weekly basis by additive companies, probiotics, prebiotics, what have you, that say, Hey, put this, put this product into your horse feed and, and it's gonna do amazing things.

Uh, you know, and, and yeah, we listen to the companies here and there. We want to see their research, but it, it goes back to truly understanding. What, what we're trying to accomplish. And for both Mary Beth and myself, the microbiome represented this incredible opportunity, but at least for me it was incredibly scary, right?

If I'm gonna make a change to this microbiome that we know affects the physiology of the horse, well, I surely need to understand what the microbiome is to start with and, and I think we were able to have that conversation with our leadership and say, you know. Allowing us to do this research will allow us to get a grasp of, of what we're trying to accomplish here.

Well, playing the long game is important, but now, um, you, you've taken the research, you're putting it together, and you've got this tangible service offering in the microbiome quotient platform. Um, do you wanna talk about that, Mary? Maybe Mary Beth, we can start with you. Um, kind of what it is. And how you're thinking of bringing it to market.

It's, you know, a totally new thing. I can imagine there's huge challenges there. Yeah. It's um, it actually launched in June, launched right on time. Uh, so our congratulations. That's, thank you. In June, you, our baby is out in the world. Yeah. Um, we have many babies. That's one of them. And so. Since we were able to build that core microbiome database from all those samples that came in from horses all over the country, now we're able to set up this service where horse owners that have a curiosity about their horse's microbiome or what we see the most of is horses that are having challenges with their microbiome.

So they're, um, they're not performing as well and some other things, and the horse owner wants to know, okay, what is going on with my horses? Gut physiology and what can I do to help them? We now sell the kit where we send the kit specifically to the horse owner. They do their swab, a fecal swab of their horse.

They send it to our lab. We then sequence all of the DNA. We then are able to tell them all the top 10 bugs that are in their horse's microbiome. They can then compare them in our database to other types of horses and horses doing different things and living different lifestyles. And then each one of these that gets sent in.

One of the PhD nutritionists on the team review all of these data, and then they actually build a custom diet for that horse based on our Purina products. And so we can say, we can look at the horse's age and their health status and how they're living, and we can say, oh, this horse actually needs to be on 15 pounds of, you know, alfalfa hay a day, and six pounds of EQU senior.

We're gonna try our systemic supplement on this horse. So then we build them out, a custom diet for that horse, and then we write in, um, some personalized recommendations for them. And then we're doing a little trial of this now. Uh, we're having a lot of fun with it, but, um, anyone that buys one of these kits and sends it in for their horse, we offer them a 20 minute Zoom consult.

With the PhD nutritionist that developed the report and developed the diet, so then they can answer any questions, we can answer any questions that they have and, and make sure that it's exactly what they need, uh, for their horse. And it's been an incredible way to connect with veterinarians that are taking care of these horses that can be tricky, and to connect with horse owners that really need some help.

We're really proud of it. And truly it's like one, one horse at a time. We help change their world and yeah, and we love it. Well, anyway, I'm wondering, are there parallels to this in I, you know, having, trying to understand this as someone who hasn't ever owned a horse, um, are there parallels to human nutrition that you draw at all?

Or, or is it a completely different thing? No, a lot of what happens in the horse world. Follows the human nutrition, right? And so, um, there are companies that will do this on the human side of things. Um, and, and you can send in your samples and you can, you know, and they'll go, there's, there's camp, there's companies where you can, you know, get as in depth with a blood sample and all the things, um, you know, from the human perspective.

Um, but you know, it, it allows for that personalized nutrition. I think one of the things that we hear all the time, or, or maybe not all the time, but I've heard from, you know, our customer is, you know, Purina, you have all these feeds, but you don't. Understand my horse. You don't understand what my horse needs.

And I think the conversation has changed now because we understand your horse in a way that nobody else ever has before. And that's what this MQ service allows us to do, is it allows us to get such an a granular and a. And a personalized understanding of what these individual horses need. Like Marybeth says, it's one horse at a time.

You know, when we, when we write these reports, it's not ai, it's not a chat bot, it's, it's, you know, one of our team of nutritionists that sits down and looks at the data and looks at the individual horse and, and pulls together. What we would, what we would recommend is if we were standing in front of that horse with the horse owner.

And so it provides our sales force a tool to. You know, maybe speak to consumers that they, you know, didn't think they had the, you know, opportunity to speak to before. Um. So it, man, I, I could not, I can't tell you how, how cool this, this service actually is. Um, you know, for, for a feed company to be able to pro provide something like this.

Um, and how it, you know, kind of just plays into everything that we do as, as a company here at Purina. As part of the, uh, platform, I, all I can think of from a human perspective is probiotics. So, um, do you, and, and supplements that you, um, that you often are, you know, recommended to take, given what you're looking at from a human perspective?

Do you have something like that? Yeah, absolutely. We do. So as part of the whole MQ platform, in addition to the sequencing service. We've been working on products. We have multiple products in the pipeline that we're working on, but we have one that we also launched at the time of the service. It's called Systemic, and it is a probiotic.

And the very unique thing about this probiotic is. For example, when you think about probiotics, a lot of people think of yogurt, right? That they know that there's probiotics in their yogurt and that's really good for their gut. But yogurt is found in the grocery store in the refrigerated section, right?

And needs to stay cold and be fresh and, and so there's actually a lot of challenges out there with probiotics that you would buy. 'cause you could go also to the, to sort of the vitamin section of. CVS or a natural health food store, and you can see all kinds of probiotics there too. But. A lot of it is actually some smoke and mirrors, and those pro probiotics aren't alive and they're not gonna get to the gut where they need to go.

And the way it works in horses, we needed a probiotic that was shelf stable. Certainly our retailers don't have refrigerated sections all over their stores. Maybe that's a new, uh, market segment. We should have know right before the whole thing. And, um, the horse's stomachs have a very low pH at the bottom.

It's a pH of two. It's incredibly acidic, which would kill most probiotics. And then we want our probiotics to make it to the hind gut of the horse, where it's gonna affect the majority of the microbiome, but it has to get through 70 feet of small intestine to get back there. So this probiotic has got to be really, really strong, really resilient.

Then to actually do something to help the horse. So we had been working on it for several years and at times I thought, I don't, I don't know if I'm ever gonna find this. But then again, we were able, through working with our emerging technology center at the farm, they said, here's some probiotics you should test.

And these have been doing really well in our, you know, pilot studies and that type of thing. So we, we took that research, took it the next step, and we were just incredibly fortunate. We've found this probiotic bug. It's like a little superhero. I mean, uh, it, it survives it's shelf stable. It survives pelleting.

We've done studies with horses gastric juice to show that it survives the low pH of the stomach. And then we have just an incredible amount of efficacy data now. Where the product really helps to support horses after they've had a hard, uh, bout of exercise or if they're doing a lot of training or had a, a recent diet change or something that upsets their gut.

This systemic probiotic has basically a systemic effect to help keep these horses, you know, in a more balanced and healthy state. As it relates to their gut health and we're, we're really, really proud of it because yeah, it was hard to find and then we found it, and then it actually does what we want it to.

And there's just so many things we test that at times don't. As part of research is, is you've gotta test a lot of things and hopefully fail fast. You know, okay, I did this, I did that and that doesn't work, so I'm gonna move on to the next thing. And we're pretty good at that. But then when we get something that continuously continues to test well and passes, you know what we're looking for, it gets really exciting for us.

Good science. Well, I tell you what, this has been just fascinating. I kind of wanna end with, um, what's next. Uh, you know, Purina is leading the industry, uncovering kind of some of these mysteries of equine microbiome and it seems like you're just getting started. It seems like there's, uh, many different ways to bring the benefit of all this research.

Um, to, into play. Um, so what can now horse owners expect next? You know, they can expect more of the, the research backed products that we develop. You know, it's, it's taking those consumer insights from our marketing partners, hearing what our, our customer is looking for, and, you know, what are the challenges that horse owners are looking to solve.

I think that's the next stage of this innovation is, you know, what are the problems you're having with your horse? What are you, you know. What are you looking for from a nutritional standpoint? I tell people all the time, you know, nutrition is so much more now than calories and proteins and vitamins and minerals.

So people are looking for not only their own nutrition, but their horse's nutrition to impact, you know, the health, the performance, the, the comfort. And so we've got some great products in testing here at the research farm. A couple of them have been in testing for a couple of years and, and we have just phenomenal, phenomenal data.

Um, and so, you know. Right now it's, it's all about how do we, how do we take those customer insights and, and produce products that, that our consumer is gonna be in excited about and interested about, and that our dealers and retailers can, can sell in an effective way. And so I'm. Endlessly excited about what the future holds for, for MQ and, and the equine business.

That's terrific. I, uh, I just wanna thank you, um, Mary Beth and Robert for all that you do, um, for, uh, healthy animals. It, uh, it's just amazing to hear about how complicated it is and how beneficial it could be. So thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, it was great. Thanks for having us.

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