The Digital Marketing Mentor

109: Career Reinvention Isn't Reckless: Tamara Gestetner on Pivots, Burnout, and Finding Your Real Calling

• Danny Gavin • Episode 110

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What happens when someone tells you you're the worst therapist in the middle of a thriving practice? For Tamara Gestetner, it was the moment she realized burnout wasn't about work, it was about identity and honesty. 

After nearly two decades as a marriage and family therapist, Tamara reinvented herself multiple times, from special education to furniture retail sales to life coaching. Her journey proves one thing: it's not too late, it's not reckless, and a career change isn't failure.

In this episode, we explore how burnout actually shows up, why high achievers push through it, how to distinguish between a rough patch and true misalignment, and what it takes to coach someone through major life transitions.

Episode Highlights:

  • Tamara's journey proves that the hardest part isn't making the change; it's being honest about why you need to make it. Burnout rarely lives alone
  • She shares that in her experience, high achievers don't address burnout because they fear failure, believe they'll hit it again anyway, and aren't honest with themselves about what's really happening
  • Career dissatisfaction is often about passion and identity, not skills, most intelligent people can learn most jobs, but passion is harder to find and harder to leave
  • Tamara believes that the difference between a temporary rough patch and true misalignment is repetition: if the same problem happens again and again across different roles, it's probably misalignment
  • When coaching someone through transition, start with their actual needs right now (bills, savings, timeline) instead of their dream job, then build backward from reality

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Welcome And Guest Background

Danny Gavin (Host)

Welcome to the Digital Marketing Mentor. I'm your host, Danny Gavin. And together with industry leaders and marketing experts, we'll explore the meeting point of mentorship and marketing. We'll discover how these connections have affected careers, marketing strategies, and lives. Now get ready to get human. Hello, I'm Danny Gavin, founder of Op Digital Marketing Professor and the host of the Digital Marketing Mentor. Today I'm really excited to welcome to the podcast Tamara Gestetner. Tamara is a life and career coach who helps people navigate major transitions with confidence, whether that's shifting careers, rediscovering purpose, or stepping into a new chapter of life with clarity and momentum. Before coaching, Tamara spent over a decade as a therapist, mostly in marriage and family counseling. She's reinvented her own professional path multiple times, proving it's never too late to change direction. Today we're going to dive into Tamara. Today we'll dive into Tamara's story, her perspective on personal and professional reinvention, and our practical insights for anyone facing uncertainty about what comes next. Tamara, welcome to the show.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Yeah, I'm I don't remember exactly how we connected. It was definitely through LinkedIn.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Yes.

Danny Gavin (Host)

But yeah, I'm so excited for you to be here today.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Yeah, thank you. Through Shana Karen, actually.

Danny Gavin (Host)

It was through Shayna.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Yeah.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Awesome. What's your connection with Shayna?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

So she actually, um, once we dive into my uh story, she helped help me with one of my career uh paths.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Cool. All right. So we'll I guess we'll talk about her later. Awesome. Let's jump right

Why Leave Therapy After Success

Danny Gavin (Host)

in. Can you walk us through your journey from marriage and family therapy at Hofstra to where you are now?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

It was a pretty long journey with a lot of different steps along the way. I was a marriage counselor for about 18 to 20 years, something like that. I lost out. Then COVID happened. My business, as as I'm sure you could imagine, anybody who had any issues with their spouse, even before before COVID, uh it was magnetized uh when COVID happened since you're together 24-7. So my business was booming. It was all remote at the time. I was seeing a couple and I was seeing them for about three months. One session that we had was just a really bad session. It just was not, you know, there there are times that, you know, things, things go great, and sometimes there's just like an off bad session. And the next day I got a call from the wife, and she was yelling at me, telling me that I'm the worst therapist. And, you know, because I guess things didn't go the way that she wanted it to be, she put all of her, she projected all of her frustrations onto me. Now I wasn't I wasn't upset about that. I just had this like light bulb moment that I couldn't do this anymore. I was done. I was emotionally tapped out. I was burnt out from, you know, dealing with everybody else's problems. I just didn't want to hear it anymore. I left that and then I went on to do a bunch more things until I eventually found my way back to doing similar type of work, but in a in a different capacity.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Amazing. So, what originally drew you to become a therapist?

Early Career Choices And Doubt

Danny Gavin (Host)

And were there early signs you might eventually pivot into something new?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Yeah. So I don't know if there were early signs that I would pivot into something new, but actually before I was a therapist, I um did special ed and I hated that. And I did that because it at the time that that was like the thing, the thing to do when people were going to school. They said this is great for like a from mother. You can make, you can make your own hours. And I don't really enjoy working with kids, and I don't really enjoy working with that population, but I did it and um I got I got my master's in it. I did it for about two years and I really hated it. And then a friend, a friend of mine uh was going to this program in marriage and family therapy. I think because I was like so young, I was like, okay, cool. That sounds, that sounds better than what I'm doing now. And I was always the type of person that people would talk to and people would, you know, um confide in. And I was, I it was very easy to gain trust with people. So it just seemed like a like a good fit. It also had evening hours and Hofster was pretty close to my house. So everything just made sense, and that's kind of like how I ended up there.

Danny Gavin (Host)

And just curious, um, I imagine you were married at the time. I was. What did your what did your husband think about your choice?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

I think he thinks he's um he says that I like bounce from thing from thing to thing and I get bored easily. But at the time, he definitely agreed with that, with that choice because he felt like that was a good fit

Identity, Judgment, And Reinvention

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

for me.

Danny Gavin (Host)

So obviously you've reinvented your career multiple times. What prompted your most significant pivot? And what was the hardest part of letting go of a previous professional identity where everyone knew you some way? And I was like, okay, I'm not that anymore. I'm something new.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

I think that I felt like I was known as irrational or irresponsible and not reliable, just like a person that's like going from thing, from thing to thing. But when you reach that point of burnout, which is what I reached after doing it for so many years and going through a lot of personal issues as well, like it comes to a point where you just don't care. You're like, oh, I just can't do this anymore. And so whatever comes next is going to come next. And I guess that be tough on piece plays into it of like, I'm gonna find my way. And it just may take me a little bit longer. But there was definitely a piece where people would ask me what I do, and I was like not really sure what not what to answer. Um, so that was like a that felt a little bit like shaming at the time.

Danny Gavin (Host)

But obviously you were able to get past it. And yeah, even even though those questions are coming at you or people looking at you in a way, maybe that they weren't really, but it appeared that way. Yeah, you know, you were able to overcome that.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

For sure, for sure. And my next job um was working in a furniture store. So I did something completely different, uh, you know, work for this furniture company, and they were like, and people would ask me, they'd be like, why why why would you go from, you know, being a therapist, which is like feels more um important, to just kind of like working at a low in a low-level position at furniture store. Um, so I definitely got those questions and people asking things, but at some point you just have to do what's what's makes sense, what makes sense for you.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Totally. And you mentioned the word pitachun. So for those people who don't know what that is, it's it's in in in Judaism, there's a concept of evemuna and bitakon. Emuna is faith. Bitachon is more of like a surety, more than faith that you know that it's gonna happen, even if it may seem difficult. So that that is often something that a lot of us lean on and rely on, especially in a time where it's difficult.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Yeah, for sure.

Burnout Roots At Work And Home

Danny Gavin (Host)

So you mentioned burnout. So let's start talking about that. So from your experience, how often is burnout really about work versus life stress showing up at work?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

That's a really good question. I actually never thought of it in that, in that capacity. Well, I think that your career often mirrors your personal life as well. There's very few times that I know people who are going through personal challenges or personal stress that it doesn't show up in their in their work life in some capacity. You could be the best person that is able to decompartmentalize your life, but in some ways it's gonna show up, whether it's like being not having the patience for your coworker or talking back to your boss or or just being tired from that emotional stress. So it really just it definitely plays plays into both parts of your life. And I think for me personally, there was a lot going on in my personal life with my mother. She was very sick. Um, so for about 12 years, that that took up like a big chunk of my time. So going back and forth to the hospital and things and things like that, that that definitely impacted my burnout to with my clients as well. And they saw it. And I had to be honest with myself what I can handle and what I can't handle anymore. And I also think that there's different stages of life for different things. So, you know, at the time when my mother was really sick and I had very young kids, you know, it may not have been the time to have a full pri full private practice. It's just too much. So you have to know, you have to know yourself. You have to know the stage of life that you're in, especially as a woman and a mother. Uh, you really have to un you really have to be honest with yourself about what you're able to take on.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Yeah. And especially in the in the Orthodox Jewish community, there's a lot of pressure on women.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Yeah.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Um, to to in some communities, they are the breadwinner, but in often, you know, most communities they're helping out in some way. And yeah, I'm sure that uh obviously for men, there's also stresses, but for women, there's like additional stress of like having that, but also being the mom. And then like in your case, being a daughter and a wife, and it's it's a lot.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

It's a lot. It's a lot. I mean, even now I would say, you know, I I wake up in the morning and I'm exhausted before the day begins, you know, because there's just so much that we have to do as orthodox Jewish women.

Danny Gavin (Host)

So, what are the most common burnout signals people ignore for too long?

Spotting Burnout Before It Breaks You

Danny Gavin (Host)

And what's the cost of not paying attention to them?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Really just being exhausted. Basically, what I feel is that if you're doing something that you love or that you loved, right? Normally after like a great session that I would have with clients, I would feel energized. I would feel like lit up and be like, I'm so great at my job, right? Like this, like this was awesome. But when you start to feel like that burnout is hitting, that even what used to upset you and what used to give you that energy is not giving you that energy anymore. I remember there there was a point where like, you know, I would have amazing sessions with with these with these clients and make their marriage better and and really, you know, get into the thick of things, but I wasn't feeling that energized. I was just felt depleted, really, really depleted to your core, where you have no energy for your family at that point. You have no energy for, you know, for your clients. And everything seems annoying. Everything is like, is like a burden to you. Like I always had this policy that my clients can call me or they can WhatsApp me um during the session, um, in between the sessions, if there was some crisis um that they needed to, that they needed to discuss. And while I was like really hitting that burnout, I would be like so annoyed that they're that they're whatsapping me. I'd be like, why are you whatsapping me? Like, you know, at six o'clock. Meanwhile, I told them that they that they that they could. So I think those are like the signs of like when when you just feel depleted and when it's not giving you that energy and that purpose anymore.

Danny Gavin (Host)

So why do high achievers tend to push through burnout instead of addressing it?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Because we don't like to fail, right? High achievers is just that. We need to achieve perfection. And flapping things or quitting things, you know, when you're going to a new profession is looked at as failure. They don't want to address it. And and like a lot of times, high achievers will think, well, what's going to be different in the next job or the next career? It's just going to be the same. I'm going to work just as hard. I'll hit burnout there. And also on top of that, many people are just not honest with themselves, right? They're like, oh, really, you know, I didn't sleep well last night, or um, you know, it's very stressful at home now. The kids are sick, you know, things like that. So they're not really honest about what's really going on for them. Um, it's only when they take those minutes to really quiet down the noise and listen to themselves and and really believe what they're feeling inside is when they'll come up with those answers. But most high, most high achievers are just on the

High Achievers And Denial

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

go, go, go, go, go, that they're not sitting in those feelings and they're just kind of going, going, going. Until um, I had a client just recently, he said that he he constantly was just on the, like on the move, like on the move, on the move to the point where he just could not get out of bed for two weeks. Like that's when he realized like his body just shut down physically. So sometimes mentally it doesn't catch up, but physically, your body will tell you, you know, that this is enough.

Danny Gavin (Host)

How much of career dissatisfaction is actually about identity rather than skills or circumstances?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

So I think there's a difference between skill and passion, right? Most people can do most, most, most jobs. Really, a skill is is easy to learn if you're an intelligent person and you can figure things out. But passion is really where that excitement and that energy comes from. So there are people, let's say, who go to law school. And so many lawyers that I that I speak to don't practice law. They actually do something complete, completely different. And I and I always wonder about that. I'm like, why would you go, would you go through the schooling and go through all that and pay all that money and you then you don't even practice it? And they realize that they do it for like a year or two and they're like, I hate this. I actually really hate this. So some people are brave enough to, you know, realize that's a satisfaction early on. And some people kind of power through it and they're like, well, you know, this is just a job and it's just like a means to an end. So it really depends what you're what you're in that job for. Like if you're in that job solely to make, to make a certain amount of money and you have to bring home that paycheck, and that's what's important for you in that season of life, then that's what, then that's what you're going to do. But

Skills Versus Passion And Money

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

understand that this is not your job, that's your passion. This is not something that like, you know, is going to fulfill you. So maybe you fill you fill that cup in like other ways. If you love art, then you do it as a hobby and you can sell your paintings on the side. And maybe that, maybe that will become just something bigger over time. But I would say like you, you, you have to differentiate the fact that your skill set, you could do most, you could do most jobs. So but where, but where is your passion? And not always, though, does passion is it realistic, right? You also have to be realistic to the point of like, can I make money doing that passion? And how much money can I make? And is that and is that enough? Or can I get a job that is fulfilling in some in some capacity and do my passion or whatever as um as a side hobby or just something that will fill that will fill your cup, but understand that that distinction.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Yeah, and it's hard, right? Some people are very blessed to find that moment where they can put both together, but a lot of people have to do one or the other and sometimes. Yeah. And that's okay, right? So, but the trick is like you said, if you have a passion, find a way that you can fill your cup up in a different way.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, and and like also understand that just because you're doing something now doesn't mean that you have to be in that place forever, you know. And that's kind of like my journey, also, is that like, you know, just because I was doing something at that point doesn't mean that this is where I have to be forever. You're not married to a job. Um, there's always solutions to every problem. There's always another way to figure out which role is going to be um better, better suited for you.

Danny Gavin (Host)

So and you could most probably speak more to this than me, but I think that's the problem that a lot of young people have now. It's like they see people where they are after 10, 15, 20 years. And the bottom line is that like there were a lot of different changes that happened in that way. So they want to be there immediately, but they don't realize that sometimes I have to go to areas or spaces or jobs that I might love. But if I want to get to that point, I'm gonna have to go through those.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Yeah. And young people for sure, they especially these days, first of all, with the age of, you know, seeing things online where people, you know, make a TikTok that says that they make $10,000 a day. So they not only want like to make money, they want to make a lot of money and they want to make it really fast and they want to make it overnight. So it's this understanding of like that Amazon effect that that I talk about of like, you know, wanting things instantly and not understanding that there's hard work to get there. So for young people, I feel really bad because like the work, the work ethic is not instilled in them. Um, and they also see this glamorized, romanticized fiction on, you know, online of like, oh, well, if I if I if I, you know, make a TikTok that goes viral, then I'll then I'll be able to make a million dollars, you know? It's a real challenge for the younger population

Mentors, Feedback, And Course Corrections

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

for sure.

Danny Gavin (Host)

So let's pivot a little bit into coaching and practical guidance. So what role has mentorship played in your own career evolution and who were or are your key mentors?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

So I don't have like one specific mentor. Um, I will say that Shana Karen was really instrumental in guiding me in different, you know, capacities. But in every role that I had, um, and there were many roles that I that that that I had over time, I learned something different from different people there. So um I would say that they would mentor me kind of in the way of saying, well, maybe this is not the right fit for you, you know, figuring that part out. And and even um where jobs were I was let I was let go of, it kind of showed me that maybe this is not this is not the right path for you. And and like I said in the beginning, is that I ended up pretty much back in a similar capacity that I did with marriage counseling in my coaching space and my career space, which is like something I tried really hard to get completely away from. And it just came, it just came right back to me.

Danny Gavin (Host)

But at least it's one on one, not one on two.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Exactly.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Unless, unless I'm sure there's those moms who want to sit in the sessions with their sons and be like, okay, how are we gonna get him a job?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Definitely. I definitely have that. I actually got a call this morning from a mother being like, You met with my son, but he's still not doing like what what he wants to do. Can you help me? You know, I was like, have him call on me.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Yeah, yeah, I've had that in my courses.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

It's kind of fun.

Danny Gavin (Host)

When you're coaching

Coaching Foundations: Needs First

Danny Gavin (Host)

someone through a transition, what do you focus on first?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

I focus on their needs at the moment. People get very caught, caught up when they leave, when they leave a career, let's say, and they want to pivot, that they're like, well, I've been doing, you know, billing for forever and now I want to be an artist, right? Like you said, like now I want to really fulfill my passion. And I'm like, okay, that's great. But what's going on for you in your life right now? How much money do you actually need to be bringing home? How much do you have in savings? Like, can can you live with with without a job for a while? Can can you go back to school? You know, what are the needs at that very moment? Because people get very caught up in like, okay, this is what I want to be doing. But then when reality hits in and there's bills to pay and they can't pay those bills, then that panic mode sets in and then they go for, then they just take on any job that they can find. So really kind of dialing it back down and being like, okay, we we want to find something that will be more exciting to you, but let's be realistic also with what's going on in your life now.

Danny Gavin (Host)

I'm sure you have to make this decision a lot, but how do you balance compassion with accountability in coaching?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

So I think I'm pretty good at that. Um, I am a pretty compassionate person in the fact that I really, really care about my clients. Um, they are very important to me. They can reach out to me whenever. And I want to make sure that they, that

Compassion With Accountability

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

they succeed. However, like there, there was an example of a client of mine that he just wasn't taking the test that I needed to give him in in order to do, to see what like skill sets would would fit which job. And he had every excuse in the book. Oh, you know, I can't, I don't have my computer. It's very noisy here, all the different things. And so I gave him like like a deadline. I said, if you don't complete it by this and this date, I cannot work with you. So that kind of gave him that push of like, no, I I really want to do this. And and she and she won't work with me if I don't complete it. So, but at but at the same time, when when he actually did it, I was like, I'm so proud of you. Like, like you actually did it. That's great. Um, we're gonna get you to your best, you know, your best future, and you're gonna be so excited. So I think to balance that compassion with also like a little bit of tough love, you know. Um, I wouldn't say I'm a drill, a drill sergeant. I that's never been my style, but at but at the same time, I have, you know, boundaries that I keep to.

Danny Gavin (Host)

No, it's really important. And I'm glad that got him going.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Yeah.

Danny Gavin (Host)

He realized if I don't jump on this bandwagon, I'm gonna lose it.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Yeah, exactly.

Rough Patch Or Misalignment

Danny Gavin (Host)

How can people tell the difference between a temporary rough patch in their life and a true misalignment?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

If it's something that happens again and again. So for example, I had a client that would go to the same type of job in the in a similar field because she was comfortable in that, in, in that field and in and in that role, she kept getting let let go up. She kept, you know, getting fired for one, for one reason or another. And she kept looking for roles in a similar space. And I said to her, I was like, well, maybe you need to do something different. Maybe this is not a line for you. And I think until I said that, she's like, What do you mean? She was like, you know, she thought of every reason of why she got fired that had nothing to do with the fact that she maybe wasn't good at this or this wasn't a line for her. So um I think that if you constantly do the same thing and it ends up being that this is not something that's working out, then maybe that's just not an alignment. And you should also, if you're doing something that and you and you have all the stressors that are going on at home and life is like really stressful, or even work is really stressful. Like, you know, they're they just brought something in uh in-house and your responsibilities increase. You have to notice that these things are temporary, right? It's not going to be like this forever and not just bolt the second that things that things get tough, because then you'll have the next pro the same problem at the next job. So, really kind of understanding that maybe right now this this is going to be hard, but once I get through it, I'll go back. To the job that I actually love.

Danny Gavin (Host)

So when I'm teaching digital marketing,

Aha Moments Through Better Questions

Danny Gavin (Host)

often when people are going through the process, it's hard, it's technical, they don't really understand it. But once they've gone through it like two or three times, they do like their final project, light bulb switches on, and it's like, oh my gosh, I get it. So I imagine when you're coaching people, it's the same sort of process, and you know. And the question really is like, what's the example of a breakout moment that you often see with clients when you're coaching them? Kind of like that light bulb turns on and like, oh, they got it, or you know, they, you know, and then and then obviously for you, you get that enjoyment of like, oh my gosh, like what I'm saying actually came through.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Yeah. Yeah. So I think like as coaches, we just need to continue asking the questions, right? And you have to just ask more questions to get down to the to the root of it. I I had a client actually, he was like, you know, not really knowing like what he wants to do. He was going back and forth, you know, not really figuring it out. And I just kept asking the questions, like, well, what do you enjoy doing? Why? Asking those why, those why questions of like, what is your why? Why do you enjoy doing those those certain things and getting to the root of the why? Once I dug deeper, dug deeper, he was like, Oh, like I actually think that I do want to do X, uh, X, Y, and Z. And I was like, Well, what makes you think of that? And he's like, Because I never thought of it in the way that you're asking me those questions.

Self-Diagnosing Stuckness

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

So I think just really kind of like digging into the why and constantly asking, but why, but why, but why? And people don't really think like that, right? They're more on like automatic mode of like, no, I I think I should do, you know, I should be like a teacher because I I don't know, because I'm good at giving over examples. I'm like, okay, well, why? Why do you think that you're that you're good at giving over examples? How are you good at like just constantly asking those questions and getting them to think a little bit deeper for them to develop that aha moment and be like, oh yeah, that makes sense. And I never thought of it in that in that way.

Danny Gavin (Host)

So outside of speaking with you, if someone feels exhausted, stuck, or disconnected from their work, where should they start?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

I think they should start. I mean, I would say to really take to take a moment and to make a list. I'm I'm a big list person. Um, to me, it helps like writing things down on an old-fashioned piece of paper, not on your phone. Making a list of like, what do I enjoy about this? What am I feeling stuck about? What is going on for me right now? What are my pros and cons of being here? And when you see it out like that on a piece of paper, your mind can think clearer,

It’s Never Too Late To Change

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

at least for me. So I would say to start, to start there and really kind of look at the pattern. See, like, okay, well, what are the things that I do that I do enjoy like about being here? What are the things that are making me feel stuck? Is there anything that is there a solution to this stuckness and how? And then if they can't get to the bottom of of those of those answers, then I would seek a professional. But I think the more that you challenge yourself and you're honest with yourself and it's just you and you and your list. There's nobody else that's looking at it, nobody's judging it, it's just you and your list. And you will be honest with yourself and ask those questions, you will be able to find out that answer.

Danny Gavin (Host)

So, what would you say to someone who feels like it's too late to change? And I'm sure that people who are older in life or have been in an industry for so long, that's way more apparent. But I I it's tough, right? And in their mind, it's like, how can I leave this? And I obviously it helps that you've been through that, but uh, what do you tell people?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

I always saw this like quote of that it was not a quote, but more of like like a fact that there were a bunch of people who made the Fortune 500 list were over 40 and they only made it at like 45 or 50. I think um if I I have to go back and look and look at who those people are, but there was like a bunch of people that were very famous um and very wealthy. So I would say that, you know, uh that it's never ever too late. And usually when you're older is when you have so many more skills and you have so many more resources that was maybe not not available to you when you were younger and you are able, you don't realize it, but you're letting the fear kind of take take over that you're never gonna make it and you're never and and

Advice To A Younger Self

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

just just think of yourself like this like what do I want the next 10 years of my life to look like? When I look back, do I want to feel like I wasted those 10, those 10 years? Because then you're still gonna be in the same spot that you are that you are now. So um I would say it's just it's never too late for sure. And to not let the fear of the unknown scare you because you want to, because you only get this one this one life. So it's not like a preview to anything. So it's your choice.

Danny Gavin (Host)

So it feels like you've already answered my question that I'm about to say. But what advice would you give your younger self now where you stand?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Is

Lightning Round: Music, Travel, Books

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

to not be scared to take, to take chances and to take bigger chances. I think I've taken a lot of chances. I think I've done it though, in the in the impulsiveness of it, I've just kind of like, you know, said, okay, I'm gonna take this job or I'm gonna take this job, I'm gonna take this job. And I didn't really think through it. I think I would tell my younger self to maybe have more of a plan, but with that plan to also just jump in and not and not be scared and not let fear or judgments of what other people are going to say about you get in the way of like really living, you know, the life that you want to be living.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Yeah, I feel the same way. If only we knew.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

If only we know.

Danny Gavin (Host)

All right, it's time for a lightning round. I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions and I want to hear your answer that com comes to your mind. So, first of all, who is your favorite musician or artist to listen to?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

I am a country uh fan. Zach Brown band is my favorite. I love them. I have a bunch of them, but I would say that they're that they're my favorite.

Danny Gavin (Host)

I live in Texas and I really don't like edgy music. But I pre- I but I appreciate I'm I'm a guitarist, so I I appreciate it, but it's not not my thing. But I uh but that's fine.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

That's fine. I actually want to come to Texas to that. I think there's like a big rodeo or something that goes on every year. Uh you do.

Danny Gavin (Host)

We we have a wonderful two weeks here in Houston. I know Dallas also has a rodeo, but you should come. It's in March, and we'd be happy to host you.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

So fun. Okay, awesome.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Travel. Where's your uh favorite place to travel?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Love Greece. Greece was my favorite, specifically Santorini. It's probably the most beautiful place that I've ever been to.

Danny Gavin (Host)

So that's one that's on my bucket list. My wife really wants to go there. So we're we're we're in agreement on that one.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Yeah.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Um, what about books? What's a good book you're reading now, or maybe one of your favorite books that you recommend people to read?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

So it's not like I guess like a psychology book or anything like that. It's fine. But I actually just read Mitch Album's book, newest book. He wrote um Tuesdays with Maury. It was about I forgot the name of it, but it's about um if you were able to do things over again, um, if you if

Tools And Trends: AI And Marketing

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

you had that chance to do things twice. I think the book is called like something twice. And I thought that that was really fascinating because I always wonder like, if we got that opportunity in the moment to redo it, would we go back and redo it? And what would we redo? And how would that change things for the trajectory of our lives? So I just thought that was really interesting.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Very apropos for our discussion today.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Wow, yeah.

Danny Gavin (Host)

What's one tool you can't live without right now?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

AI. I would say.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Do you have do you have a favorite LLM that you like?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Chat GBT is definitely my friend. I've I've named it. Um, it learns me, it knows me, it's my it's my secretary, it's my everything. I actually think it's a blessing and a curse because we we don't even know how to think by ourselves anymore. I remember there was a moment that there was a WhatsApp sent to me, and I was like, how do I answer it? And I put it into chat GBT and I'm like, I would never have done this like two years ago. I would have used my brain and answered this question. I would say that it's it's definitely a crutch that I'm not sure if it's so great. Definitely for the younger generation, it's terrible. I see it with my kids.

Danny Gavin (Host)

What's an overhyped marketing trend or an underhyped one that you're noticing now?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

So I find it exhausting because every everyone has something else to say. Some people say that you should be on LinkedIn, some people say you should be on Instagram, some people say you should be on TikTok, on Facebook, on whatever. I kind of just market myself like all over the place and I'm gonna see what sticks. From what I've heard, LinkedIn is kind of changing and people are using it more of like an Instagram um thing. So it's confusing to me of like where you should market what, you know. So I'm I'm I'm still learning, I'm still learning the trends, but everybody has something else to say about it. So and you're the marketer, the digital marketing guy. So you probably know better than me.

Danny Gavin (Host)

One thing you're right, it is changing.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Yeah.

Danny Gavin (Host)

And therefore it is important to keep up to date of what are the styles, what are the trends, and what to do. But I feel like YouTube, Instagram, LinkedIn, a lot of it is conglomerating in a very similar space.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Yeah. I think YouTube is one that I didn't explore yet, and I think that that's a very powerful one that that reaches a lot of people, from what I understand.

Danny Gavin (Host)

You speak very well. There's no reason that you couldn't put out content on there.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Yeah, I think I will. But it's also extremely time consuming. Like who has time for all this constant stuff? And then also, you know, working. Right.

Danny Gavin (Host)

I agree. Trust me. I go through that every day.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Yeah.

Danny Gavin (Host)

All right.

New Project: Talk To Tamara Podcast

Danny Gavin (Host)

So what is your next big project?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

I'm having podcasts, my own podcast.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Cool. Yeah. Tell us about it.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

I write an article for the Five Towns Jewish Times. So it's my local community paper. And the article started out as like career mediation type of things. And then I was bored of it. So I kind of changed my whole column around to be a lot of like advice, life coaching, talking about like things that are going on for me personally. And it resonated with my community and beyond, like so, so much. Uh, people would come up to me. They they like loved it. So I am taking that, like I guess, my article, and I am expanding it into the podcast space. It's called Talk to Tomorrow. I've always wanted to have kind of like a call-in show, right? Where people would call in and ask questions, kind of like what Frazier had. I don't know if you if I'm aging my aging myself. So um this is not that. Like it's not a call-in show. Maybe I would do that at some at some point, but I don't even know how that would work if there's no like radio, maybe on satellite or something. But um, it's going to be a take on my on my article talking about all different things, such as anxiety, trauma, career, grief, body image, talking about life in the Orthodox Jewish community, um, and the challenges that come that come with that as well. So it's gonna be on a host of different topics, and um, I hope to be launching in the next few weeks.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Very exciting. Um I had no clue. I'm so excited for you.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

Okay, thank you. Yeah.

Danny Gavin (Host)

So where can listeners learn more about you and your practice?

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

They can go

Where To Find Tamara And Closing

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

to my website, which is www.temoragestetner.com. They can go to my Instagram handle at talk to tomorrow, my LinkedIn, which is Tamara Gestetner. I think that's enough places to find me.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Yeah. So if someone needs you, they can find you.

Tamara Gestetner (Guest)

They can find me. Yeah, you can just Google my name and I'm there.

Danny Gavin (Host)

Tomorrow, this has been such an awesome conversation, really. Um, such great advice. And for the people that I know that uh many who listen to the podcast, I think this is going to be perfect for them. So I really, really appreciate you. I'm okay. And thank you, listeners, for tuning into the Digital Marketing Mentor. We'll speak with you next time. Thank you for listening to the Digital Marketing Mentor Podcast. Be sure to check us out online at thedmentor.com and at the DM Mentor on Instagram. And don't forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts for more marketing mentor magic. See you next time.

Head Shot

Danny Gavin

Host