The Revenue Room™ with Thomas Bohn, President & COO, Advanced Home Improvement Media

In the latest episode of the Revenue Room™ Podcast, we had the pleasure of hosting Thomas Bohn, President and COO of Advanced Home Improvement Media. Tom shared the company's fascinating growth trajectory, the inspiring company culture amidst accelerated change, and strategic plans to leverage digital solutions and data to diversify revenue streams and create unique customer value.

Key Takeaways:

• Data and Analytics: The crucial role they play in driving business growth.
• Innovative Digital Solutions: Transforming the home improvement industry with cutting-edge technology.
• AI and Customer Experience: How Advanced Home Improvement Media utilizes AI and data to enhance customer interactions.
• Local Sales Team: The importance of having a strong, localized sales force and personalized customer interactions.
• Future Trends: Exploring pet-friendly home solutions and upcoming trends in the home improvement sector.

Tom highlighted their innovative approach to connecting homeowners with top-notch contractors, home improvement service providers, and potential partnerships with lending institutions to streamline the financing process. He shared an exciting vision where users can upload photos of their kitchens, receive tagged product suggestions, and finance their projects seamlessly with the Home Mag Dream Card.

"Our mission is simple – to clear the path and facilitate a smooth, enjoyable customer experience. We don't sell leads; we sell facilitation and connection, sparking creativity and empowering homeowners on their renovation journeys."

Become part of the conversation. Join The Revenue Room™ today. 

About RevvedUP 2026
RevvedUP 2026 is where CEOs and revenue-critical C-Suite leaders reset their growth playbook for the AI-first economy. Taking place March 23–24, 2026 at The Vinoy Resort in St. Petersburg, FL, this two-day strategy lab helps leaders pressure-test how AI moves from cost center to growth driver and turn data and disruption into competitive advantage.

About Heather Holst-Knudsen
Heather Holst-Knudsen is the founder and CEO of H2K Labs and Revenue Room™ Connect. A seasoned executive and operator across media, marketplaces, events, and technology, she specializes in digital transformation, data-driven growth, and customer-centric value creation. Heather shares her insights on multisided business models through The Revenue Room™.

About Revenue Room™ CXO
Revenue Room™ CXO is a private executive community for CEOs and revenue-critical C-Suite leaders navigating growth in the data and AI economy. Through curated peer discussions and strategy sprints, members tackle real-world challenges in revenue transformation, customer intelligence, and business model innovation.

Learn more or apply for membership at info.h2klabs.com/apply-cxo.

Transcript

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Welcome to the Revenue Room, presented by H2K Labs. Here's your host, Heather Holst-Knudsen. Hi everyone. Before we jump into today's episode, we've got some exciting news to share. The Revenue Room and H2K Labs are launching a groundbreaking peer to peer network focusing on revenue growth. And as listeners, we want you to be the first to know. So we're offering you the opportunity to sign up to be one of the first we notify when we officially launch. But our program will include peer to peer collaboration and advisory events in idyllic locations such as Sarasota, our hometown, and research. And things like playbooks, bootcamps, and other types of support and content to help you accelerate your journey to profitable revenue growth. We'll be sharing the link to sign up in our show notes. I'm delighted to invite Thomas Bohn here to our show. Thomas is the president and chief operating officer of the rebranded under a new corporate structure. It's good to be here, Heather. Thank you so much for having me. We are now. The HomeMag is actually a corporation underneath Advanced Home Improvement Media, because we're so much now more than just the HomeMag. We're a lot of different brands and growing very quickly, so We had to make sure that our brands and our lines of product aligned accordingly. I actually can't wait to get into that because I think some of the brands that you've launched that are adjacent to the HomeMag, it's actually quite fascinating how you're looking at the business. But I met Tom five, six years ago when you were the CEO of NABC. It might have been a little longer. Okay. North American Veterinary Community. I think we were, you were with another digital company. Feather. I remember. Yes. And we had met and we were talking about the. The possibilities of working together. I don't know if we did, at the time. I don't think we did. Yeah, I can't remember. Yeah, but and then we circled back once everything settled and Brought me back to Florida and to, to this new industry. And now we're down the street from each other. I look, I think what could be better than being in Sarasota in the middle of the afternoon? What a gorgeous area. That's right. We're excited to have you here. The HomeMag is actually a family owned business that has been on operation for 21 years now. The founders Sean and Debbie Campbell they had set a vision. They lived in South Africa and they had set a vision that said, essentially we want to. Be in the States and we want to create a company that has a lasting impact and is profitable. And they basically visioned this whole thing out. In very general terms. And there was a similar type of business that was in South Africa, Cape town at the time. And they basically took that concept, adapted it to the U S market, started with one publication in Fort Myers, Cape Coral area or Southwest Florida. And it wasn't even called The HomeMag at the time. It was like, I forgot the name now, but it's a terrible name. I saved it the brand back now, but. They stayed with it, and they are what I like to call a 22 year, 21 year overnight sensation. Because this is the, they grinded and saved. So focus until I became the company it is today and 68 markets, half of it franchise, half of it, corporate owned now so many additional products in the mix and stuff that we're, we'll talk about, but it's a really cool entrepreneurial story. And Oh, and by the way, to make it even better, they sailed here. So it wasn't like they got on a plane. Wait, hold on. No, literally, so they bought a boat together as a couple and they said before we do anything we're going to go around the world and do charters because they love their big sailors and everything. So they're doing charters and part of their vision plan was one of our customers will help us decide where we should go in the states. And one of their customers suggested Cape Coral, which at the time was this boom town. You remember the pre 2008 and that thing, you couldn't go wrong buying a piece of dirt in Cape Coral. So one thing led to another, they literally landed here like the pilgrims and in Cape Coral and started this business. And obviously through the years grew, it started with just them. Then they franchised it and the franchise started to grow. And today is a, we have On the corporate national level, we have just about a hundred employees and then across the entire organization and franchise. We're about 250 It's a pretty cool story that they have. Oh, it's so interesting, but I love that franchise angle. Yeah But just to back up a bit I think your background is so fascinating just from your own individual level in that you've been in Association you've led associations you've led media companies trade shows Now you're leading a B2C media company, you've been deep into P& E and mergers and acquisitions. How does this all form Tom now? So it's interesting, my first real job, okay, I was coming out of business school. I just started in the middle of business school and my wife and I wanted to move to the Tampa Bay area. And there was a chamber of commerce there called the Oldsmar Chamber of Commerce. And it was struggling financially and all these types of issues. And I vividly remember they wanted to hire a CEO. No one wanted the damn job, right? Because it was 18, 000 a year. And if that sounds like a little now, it was a little then too, right? There wasn't a lot. So there was me who had done internships and stuff in chambers and was ambitious and all those things. And I said, I'll do it. The whole fake it till you make it type of thing, but you knew just enough. In the course of two years, we had literally grown it double the size of it. Convinced the city and the county to donate a building to us as a welcome center. Put in all these great opportunities for the local economy in terms of economic development. So I was able to cut my teeth on a number of different things, including, publishing and the rest around business related issues. And that was probably, I don't think I've had roles that were Chief level, but I've never had, but not like I was never like a manager or anything like that. So my first job was as a CEO and that kind of continued that thing. And I became known for this whole idea of disruption. And it's something that's really embedded in me and being able to go into a company that has really good bones and then saying, where can it go from here? And I think that's when Sean and I met and a recruiter came to me and was talking to me and we literally hit it off within the first couple of minutes talking about what could this be? And that's what, and that's where we're at. So literally the plan that I pitched to Sean when we had met on that first meeting is the plan we're enacting today as we are growing the Hallmark. I'm jumping around from what I hope my questions would be, but that leads me to in one of your bios I read, you have this really great statement, Tom envisions what he wants to accomplish and then finds the means to attain it. So it's almost like you went in and met. Your CEO and said, yeah, here's the plan, and I'm going to give you the roadmap to, and you're executing it right now. Yeah. So in fairness, Sean had these incredible ideas. He's a visionary, but he will be the first person to tell you it's taken the vision to the actual implementation that was always been challenging getting the right people around to, to do that. So for me, I am able to sit at that vision level. But then to say, how are we going to get there? And that to me has always been about surrounding myself. And I know this is cliche, but surrounding myself with people who are a lot more talented than myself and giving them the tools and giving them the freedom and giving them the ability. My job at the end of the day is to set help with Sean, set the vision of the organization. And then to move obstacles out of the way and make sure our culture is always top notch. And that's what I continually go back to focus and focus on. And we just did a, I'm really proud of this. We just did a. Survey with Inc. 500 and it was the best places to work. We scored in the very, very top of companies for our employee motivation and satisfaction and the rest. And that's something that for a company here, I'm coming on two years where we've changed literally everything from top to bottom. And to get that type of feedback and to be so incredibly profitable at the same time. That's extraordinary for a few different reasons because the change that is happening at your company is enormous because You're going from primarily print revenues. Yeah to adding in Not only adding in digital solutions, but you're actually leapfrogging other businesses who might've already started on the journey and you're like moving to AI and all of these incredible data monetization opportunities, which has an impact directly on the type of people you're hiring, the way the company has to operate in terms of how you're using data internally to manage the business. It's a very different than creating and publishing a print publication. So when I first came to it, I didn't look at it as a. Print publication. And I literally forbid the team from ever saying that. We are a multimedia, tech enabled organization that supports the home improvement industry. That's what we do. And that could manifest in many different forms. Print happens to be one of the core forms, right? But it's just a piece of it. At the end of the day, our job is to clear the path. And that's a phrase that Sean and team put together many years ago. I love it. We use it every day. Clear the path between the customer, the homeowner and the advertiser to bring incredible visions of your home to life in an easy way. And that's what it's always been about, inspiring with incredible photography and connecting to the best home improvement people instead of the cheapest or the, it's always about that fine line between quality and competitive. And I think that's really what it was about. So when I looked at the company, I didn't see a print company. I saw a company in 68 markets with a local sales team. That's what triggered in my head. And that was the first thing I said, he's, what do you think about the print? And I said, it is what it is that it's not like I said, what I love though, is you have literally have on the ground salespeople in 68 markets, and that's something that most organizations. And then replicating. And then, so for me, it was a matter of taking this incredibly strong brand and then bolting on products that make sense based on the feedback we were hearing from our advertisers. And it's been really exciting. That actually, that feed on the street construct that you have with the salespeople and regionally located, that was very much with my former family business, Thomas Publishing, they had the whole independent contractor system. Which actually got grandfathered in by President Clinton, that they could exclusively work for Thomas. But yeah, it was, they had them all around the United States. I think at one point there were like 600. It went down from there after a while, but it was one of the core that I would say is a little bit of a secret weapon. Okay. So let's talk about the plan now, right? This plan, you've an integrated media portfolio that serves your two sides of your customer constituency, right? You've got audience. And you have your advertisers, and you've launched a series of very interesting digital solutions. Yeah. Let's talk about that. So we started out very simple. It was, okay, let's get into email and we partnered with some great companies to make sure that we were delivering the best in class. We have a penetration rate of our mail list for our emails of about 65 to 70 percent hits and the open rates are phenomenal, right? But we wouldn't settle because so many people go out there and grab email lists and they're terrible and it's junk and it's spam and it doesn't work. We wanted to have something that worked. And it's a premium, right? So we're able to charge for that price. So it was a really good kind of dip in our toe in the water. And I can tell you that as in terms of a percentage of our local market sales, it's already grown at 15, 20%. And that's just where a lot of groups are seeing a decline in the beginning of this year in advertising because of the fear of the elections and all those other types of things, right? We have not seen that because of what we've been able to do. With this, but we were much more ambitious. And we, again, talking about that local sales team and what we wanted to do was it wasn't a far walk from you have this incredible print publication. You have emails, you've got a local sales team. There should be a marketplace that's connecting these incredible advertisers. With homeowners, because a lot of people are focused on this, right? Or they're focused on their laptop or whatever. But we didn't want to just create a directory. That's everyone has a directory and there, some of them are good. Some of them are not good. We wanted to create an experience and that experience was really around AI and artificial intelligence and this whole idea of creating a character called homie. And homie is a, is an AI house, right? Homie is amazing and kids love homie. There's actual homie. Outfits now and there's homie gear and the rest, but you're able to go on and actually have a conversation with homie about your house. And it started out, we really wanted to make sure that it worked well and we walked, crawled, walked before we ran. And it was just, talk to us about what you want and we'll start to suggest the contractors that will be best for you, whether it's windows or doors or painting or whatever, the case may be now. And when this is about to roll out, By the way, this will be across the nation and an awesome advertising campaign that we just shot in Orlando, but now you'll be able to go on and upload photos of your kitchen, photos of your living room, photos of your home and tell homie, Hey, I need help with this. Give me a look that looks like a. California, chic beach, whatever the thing is that people are doing farmhouse chic, there's a million different things and it'll start to generate that for you and actually give you photos and then on top of that, it'll start to say, here's the folks who can help you who are connected with the home and connect them. Now, what's important to this though, is that we don't want to be in the business of selling people's information. Because that's right there. We don't want to be in the business of selling leads. Okay. We want to be in the business of connectivity. So we connect them and let those conversations happen organically. We, we never sit, so we're not going to call, I got I think it was HomeAdvisor or one of those. I tested just to see. Yeah. And I think I got 20 calls, like hunting down my house. I don't, we don't want that because that's not a good experience for our advertisers. And it's certainly not a good experience for homeowners. Our goal was again, clear the path, make it easy. If they wanted to connect, they can get all the information, whether they want to connect with the contractor. It's easy to do. And it's out there. Yeah, it's out there. And that's interesting because one, I'm doing my kitchen, so I'm all in this right now. And for people who don't want to hire an interior designer or don't, or can't afford it or want to do it on their own, it's a very it's a huge investment. It's very I get nervous, what if I pick the wrong thing? I want to see things. I'm very visual. So this idea that you can not only upload your own. Or manifest it. You could literally just put in queues of what you want. Will you ask them after they're done with their kitchen to upload the finished product? Absolutely. Here's the great part. So in an iteration coming out, you can actually take those photos and put them in Homie's garage. So Homie has a garage and you could store your stuff. Everyone stores their stuff in their garage. Yeah. Homie will have a garage and you store it in there. And again, it's free. You We're not selling your data, we're not, and, but this is, I think the brilliant part about all this, Heather, is that I think when you and I first met, you really triggered and you said, you really have to get more data in terms of who you are and what you are. So we partnered with MRI, who you know, to do a data, to a review of our product, really do an assessment. What do people think? We just got those results back last week. and a reader of the home mag. First of all, our readership is about 70%, which is through the roof, but they're three and a half times more likely to engage in a home improvement pod project within the next two to three months. Wow. 350 percent higher because of the focus on our data and all on our list, which gets back to what you've been preaching. Because you're really accelerating and helping a person make better, smarter decisions and also reducing the risk and the fear of the investment, which is a lot of the lag, the time lag from when we do it. So I think that's phenomenal. But I think there's something else we talked about that two things. One is. So when people are entering in their prompts and homey, you're actually getting a lot of data about specific types of buyers and specific markets. What's trending? I was actually looking at your data yesterday, the sample data, and it was like, Hi, everyone wants to redo their garage in this area. Yeah, it gets better. Because what do we do with that? I don't want to sell their data anymore. We're never going to be in that business, right? That's not what we do. But we're actually going to be working now with you all and with MRI to put together a national annual Home Improvement Trends Survey. To talk about what they're spending, what they're doing, where it's going to be. So that we're also a source of data in general to share. It's just changing that again. It was a print publication working great. What else can you be? How else can you envision it? There's another angle there too. If you're getting all of this data in around the buyer, including me being able to map to income and again, helping them accelerate their journey is partnering with lending institutions that would want to be. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So FinTech is something we're exploring. If you think about where the marketplace or homey sits, It's only in the very beginning. We're just in the beginning of this journey. So now imagine it brings up this incredible photo of what your kitchen's going to look like. And now it can actually start to tag products onto it, right? And then it can say, Hey, you really like this? Why not get the HomeMag DreamCard, which can help you pay for it, right? Which is now supported by a banking partner and when it becomes a seamless process. And again, we are just clearing the path to make all that happen. We're not sitting here. Badgering them. That's not what we do. It'll never be what we do. We don't sell leads. We sell facilitation. We connect. Curation, facilitation, and you're sparking creativity, again, in your audience to help them again on that journey. Absolutely. Tell me about your pet brand. Again, thinking about our product in a more holistic fashion, the home includes so many powerful things. And certainly in my world, I don't think the home. Is as complete without a pet, right? We are about to launch the pet mag. Which will be a ride along with the home bag, which really starts to focus and get into what can you be doing in your home with this very special part of your home. I've got two amazing dogs and had dogs most of my life and they're critical and they're in the home all the time. Two things. I have my own, I have a rough colleague by the way. Yeah. His name is Frankie. He's all white. And I always say to my, my, my husband, whose brother is single, I'm like, he just needs to come over and want walk Frankie. Like he is a baby magnet. Yes. But two things. One is I read somewhere that we could be in the deepest depression, but you know what? Spend on animals is gonna always go up home and animal. So could we not be focused on the two best things? And the great thing about that is that there, the media play in animal health. Is very disjointed. There's not a major player. So we think there's a lot of opportunity for us to really focus on that. I have a lot of background as we talked about from NAVC know that world really appreciate veterinarians immensely. I think they're the most brilliant people I've ever met. Truly. They're just so caring and smart and love working with them. Every minute of it. And I think there's so much we can do because there's a lot of great stories to tell and success. But think about it. Architects are designing kitchen. With the pet in mind, I just was the bowls being into the island and the water being fed. So it's clear and draining out and so it's this constant thought process and shade structures outside for the pets to be under and to sit on. So all this is happening, and I think you need to think about the home very holistically as a focal point. What's been amazing for us from a data perspective is as we look back on the years. When we've been in recession, we still do well. When we're growth, we still do well because people are going to say, I'm not going to buy it straight too high. I'm going to sit where I'm at, but I'm going to just do this. People are offering 0%. Oh, I'll go do this. Then I'll upgrade my countertops. I'll paint the house that. Always becomes a part of the narrative. Americans love their homes and they love their pets. I think especially since COVID where people were hunkered down at home and then people started to realize how important the home is in terms of really truly being your sanctuary. But there's an interesting cross sell both in terms on the audience side. I think there's an interesting cross sell part. If you're like getting data from homey and let's say They're asking questions. I want to include like that thing about for pets. Like I see, I saw one for our dog, what you just described. You automatically now have that data to do. Oh, by the way, do you know that we have this, these pet solutions for you as you're thinking about how to improve your pet's life in your home. And our world is much more tightened. So you could go on Instagram and those types of things and find a lot of what we're talking about, but it's huge. We are literally focused on the home and envisioning the home. But again, the magic is because we have sales teams locally. You talk about the brand. The few other people in our space, they're sitting in New York or they're sitting in Dallas and they're calling all around the country to get advertising. And they're mailing to everyone. It's just a very different look and feel of what it is and what we are. And I think that goes back to the Campbells, Sean and Debbie, Who always wanted to be something different and special even if it meant Losing business or not getting business. We never would compete on that. Let's be the cheapest, right? Let's be the best. This reminds me of Freight well, it's now called firecrown media, but Craig Fuller. He bought some assets from Bonniere One of my top people is a Bonniere I always pronounce it incorrectly by the way but he is, he has acquired a lot of their like Marine and they're flying the B2C, but, and he really he got, he, he lopped off the circulation. He wanted only the best ones and he's launching all of these solutions around this highly passionate audience, like financing for the pilots, like these, mass customization. You find your target, you find your niche, and that's what you obsess with. And that's what we do. We are obsessed with people who want to spend money on their home. And we don't want to be all things to all people. We don't go to apartment, other people's mail to apartment. Because if you can model in there a rental, but there's a lot of differences between us and others that I think it matters in the end. Do you have any plans to do any type of events? I'm I have an event background is I've done 20, 000 attendee shows. We have a conference internally for us that's much, much smaller. I think there's a play there. I just think we need to figure out that path together. We're so focused on the data. And the AI and those types of things right now, you only can do so many things well at a certain time. But I think that's a play. Home shows and the like is a place that we would want to certainly be. Even like TV, there's a lot of Absolutely. There is, but I think there's a, there's an entire market there now that, if you think about OTT, over the top, you don't have to be on a big network anymore. You just have to be creative and be different. We're doing some cool stuff. Cool stuff now on Tik Tok with homey and the like, and our commercials that are about to come out for marketplace are just phenomenal. The creative team that's been involved in those will start to roll out nationally as we expand to all these new markets. So I have to shift a little bit because this is everything sounds so wonderful and great and I love it, but I can't imagine that. This has, especially on the team side, and I, and again, I having led sales teams know how hard it is to change mindset if they're accustomed to a certain way. Have you encountered any challenges or barriers you had to break down to really help people jump on board this vision? There's definitely been a change in the environment. So there's a lot of faces that are new and there's some faces that are no longer there because they were unable to make that transition. That's just part of kind of business. I think the difference you'd ask about the difference between being an association or not for profit is that when you're profitable, right? And you're growing, it allows you to be bolder. It allows you to make, it allows you to make decisions. In the best interest of the organization instead of decisions in fear because you got to make payroll or you got to do this or it's got a break even situation, right? I think because they have run such an amazingly careful organization and we're not superfluous with expenses and there's no We keep it. Our revenue per employee is just astronomical. We keep it very tight. There's none of this glitz and extra bodies. And we were always waiting to need a person or to add them. And I think that the people who weren't able to make that shift are the ones who just couldn't get on board with the rate of change, the speed of change. So it's not that they disagreed necessarily with the path. They just couldn't move at the rate that we have to move in. And I look, I'm never going to make it. I'm never going to apologize for that because we're focused right now on this book called pivot, disrupt and transform. And it's become our mantra and our focus. And we're taking through the entire organization and yeah, it's a fantastic book and I think you'll get a lot out of it. And it really talks about the fact that great companies, successful companies go through those phases and you continually shift through them. But it talks about the other part of it, which is really, where are you participating, either whether you're a franchise or you're a publication or you're an employee? Are you present? Which is, you just show up, you do it, you do your job, right? Are you competitive, which is that next level, or are you dominant? So it's really that progression through those stages as well that we're now focused on. It's okay, yeah, you're present. You have a 40 something page. Publication and you do what you need to do. You should be at 80, right? You should be now do be a multimedia organization. You should have 40, 50 percent market of homie for who's advertising it. So all these things need to be lined up as well. So taking them through that whole process, that's been very different for a lot of people. But I will tell you the talent that was there, a lot of them, the cheapest staff. It was formerly Sean's executive assistant, the head of marketing. He was doing all this incredible rebranding and everything was like a marketing assistant. And she's just, they've really just stepped into their roles and stepped up in a way that I love. So we've always given opportunity. That is something that I've always done. Give them opportunity until they can't. And then that becomes a difficult conversation. Yep. Yep. No, that's a really interesting point. And actually two things on that. So the. I often talk about this data monetization course I took at MIT, and one of the big things they talk about, and it has to happen in the beginning, is once you have your vision down and you're like, you've got to figure out who's going to jump on the train and be excellent. Who's going to jump on the train and fake it till they make it. And who's just not going to jump on the train. There you go. There's your present. It's very similar types of things. I think the one thing I love about the book that it talks a lot about is that as leaders, we're responsible for everything because we're responsible for the system. We are responsible for developing and putting in place the systems. And you can't say we can't get a good salesperson in this market because we just can't. Let's be honest, we're doing something wrong if you can't get a good salesperson. So it's changing that mindset around, we're responsible at the end of the day, the buck stops with me. And then ultimately to Sean. I was on a podcast. I was a guest on someone's podcast and we were talking about the sales team and sales skills and I have this philosophy. I'm more enlightened now than I was when I was leading sales, but it's not always the salesperson's fault actually. There are so many factors that are preventing a salesperson from being that a player. They could be in the wrong role in sales. Maybe they are more enterprise versus transactional data to tell you that, right? They may be not being coached the right way. That's what we found mostly. And you should be using data of who are the A players, how are they performing and what are they doing every day and say, we're going to take those three things. They are consistently speaking seven, 25 percent of the time versus 75 percent and you know that because you're using gone there. They have their followup is within 24 hours from the time a proposal goes out. They have, that has nothing to do with revenue. And that's the other part about the book. If you're focusing just on revenue and profit, you're missing out on so much else. Absolutely. So I think the other part with the sales piece of it too, is that it really is. We keep thinking of salespeople. Everyone in our organization is a salesperson. Our office managers are salespeople, our graphic designers who interact with the customers all the time because we've designed all this stuff are salespeople. So we're going through that. And so what does that look? What does present look like for that role versus competitive versus dominant? How do you go through all those different layers? And that's become very important. Yeah. That's actually really lines with this revenue room constructs that we talk about here a lot. And it's a very foreign conversation. To a lot of the companies I speak to, but my take is anyone who touches the customer, I don't care if it's the people writing your content or it's the person who's producing your event or the person who's sending out the invoices or it's the marketing team who's supposed to be supporting the sales team. If they're not aligned and also rewarded. For revenue and customer outcomes, how are you ever going to be able to be optimal 100 percent in business performance? 100 percent And you talk about giving them oftentimes not being the salesperson for it. Obviously, most of the time it's not giving them the right data, not preparing them with the information they need. Empowering yours with the fuel. We're coming up on time, and I just wanted to ask, and I know you can't give me Specific numbers, but can you just share a little bit about what your growth is looking like right now? So we have been consistently Growing year over year both top line and EBITDA about 20 to 25 percent. That's great Which is a we will in our five year trajectory That I committed to Sean we will double Our top and bottom line, which is a hell of a journey and we're growing. And that's, but again, it's not just about that. I know that's really important. And that's why we're here. It's not a not for profit, which helps because everyone's focused. Problem in not for profits. And I spent many years in them, and I love them, and I will never see anything bad, but the problem is that there's so many competing priorities, and you can never get as much movement as you need because of those competing priorities. Because everyone has a view of what it should be, and sometimes it's for altruistic reasons, which is wonderful. It's great. Sometimes it's for, the problem is that in the world of not for profits and associations, there's a whole entire group of companies and businesses that are for profit competing against nine out of 10 of their products. So all they're left with is the one over there that is altruistic. Which is not sustainable. No, absolutely. And actually just interesting, on a side note with associations who are doing like membership and Yeah. They have events and media and educate, like the amount of data they're sitting on is actually huge. Extraordinary. Huge. And it's all disconnected. Yeah. And because of, I, there's some, the way that they're structured and their KPIs and motivations. Yeah. It's just sitting there. The group I was with before Association for Corporate Growth, we had acquired a data company called GF Data, and it was from these two founders who'd been in the industry, mergers and acquisitions forever. They just did an amazing job with it. And I knew if we could buy this and put it on our platform, which has absolutely accelerated its growth. And it's been such a huge bright side for them because they have something there that's really talking about the M& A world and what's happening and what deal All the different points that they look at. So again, a lot of people wouldn't have thought about M& A in an association, but we did, even at the NAVC. When I first started at the NAVC, I said, okay, we have a great conference. We were a one hit wonder. We need to be a multimedia integrated solution for our veterinarians and our veterinary technicians and our practice managers and all the different people who make up that important healthcare role for animals. And I went out and looked for media properties I could buy. And then once we were able to buy them and pull them on the plane, they exploded and the same thing with an online did we've created an online digital training thing called that folio. And at the time it was like, it was a small portion. Guess what happens? COVID hits blows up in a good way. So it's sometimes it's timing, but it's always thinking about what are the different pieces that need to be in place at a certain time. Sometimes they don't hit right away. Sometimes it takes a little bit of maturation to get there. No, for sure, and it's, and I think I read about when you were, your tenure at NAVC you Oh, yeah, for sure. But again, great team. It wasn't me. It was the team, right? The person who took it over after me. He was a CFO. Great leadership. Still growing like crazy. I think that last I heard was like, I, when I left, it was 18, I think I just heard it was like 28 or 30, 000. So that type of trajectory and that legacy and their media properties continue to grow. That's cool. That's fun. That's what I love to see and hear and watch. You left a great legacy there. It was a great place to be. And that was one of those places that you just, you know, again, veterinarians and the like, they're just, they're incredible people. Let me shift gears a little bit. And I'm going to, what do you think the biggest challenges are? For the industry as a whole, like media right now, like there's a lot of things happening and you're in a really great spot because your market's so vibrant and you're doing very innovative things, but you're hearing a lot about what's happening with the lawsuits with AI and chat to BT or chat to BT and Emails now becoming much more difficult and Google's changing its algorithm, so people are losing 40 percent of their traffic and that's all short term to me. That stuff's always there. Yeah. What do you see happening? To me, it's always comes down to getting the attention, mind share, being able to break through and be visible and be current and what that looks like. And that's where a lot of public, whether it's a publication or a digital product, they struggle. Like, how do you get past? Yeah. All that's out there. I think most, I forgot the age group or people are getting their news from TikTok. Yes. Okay. So you can say, oh, that's horrible. That's it. When I was a kid, I read, no one cares what it was like. It is what it is. So how do you sit in that world of sharing that? Our marketing team was really focused on making sure that we are relevant and available. And I'll tell you, all those people who said print is dead. Print is still killing it, but you've got to be focused. You can't be time magazine because you're getting time magazine every day on your phone. Yes. Generalist will not work anymore in print. Specialists will. And I think that's across the board too, even like with the way with digital and it's just really knowing your domain. And being that thought leader that entrusted the go to, and I think that's becoming more and more important because you really need to, and I don't like to use the word own your audience. You don't own an audience. You engage an audience. They come to you because they trust you, but you want them coming back over and over because of these investments you've made and being an authoritative voice. I think that the thing that I've always been fortunate is I never operate out of fear. I always operate out of opportunity. And so when people are like, Oh my God, yeah. I think it's great. Yeah. I don't know where it's going to take us. Jamie Dimon was just on TV saying that within so many years, people will be working a three and a half day work week because the AI will be, but in a positive way. So then all of a sudden you start to say everything that we talk about, the dire consequences of population decline is all based on the assumption that you have to have so many workers in the market to do this. We're having population decline. We're seeing that now in China. We're seeing it in all these different places, right? So AI starts to become that play that says, maybe it's not as bad. You know that, okay, just on a side note, it's like either we're too many people on the planet or we're full. Exactly. Now it's become, oh my god, we're not going to have enough. We're not going to have enough. Because growth is always based on population. But I will say then the answer to the question is the biggest challenge or a threat to the industry is fear any industry Yeah, any industry operating in a fear which is why I hate politics today because politics and today has become a zero sum game Of who can run to the lowest common denominator of fear scare tactics Absolutely. And negativity. And negativity. And I think that I will go back to it every single time, it doesn't work. No. It'll work in the short term. You'll see it work in the short term, but it'll always wind up boomeranging back. I'm hoping we're at that boomerang point. I think people have to be, because I think they're tired. They're exhausted by it. They're tired of everyone yelling at each other, they're tired of everyone exaggerating what everyone's doing. This is not a political point on either side. It's just simply, people are exhausted. By not focusing on stuff that is really important to take care of. And I, yeah, we should have another podcast about this. Yeah, about politics. But, I almost feel like, alright, you already answered this, but answer it again. We're going to do some rapid fire questions. Best business book? I will always say Good to Great. To this day, in fact, Pivot, Transform Pivot, Disrupt, Transform has a lot of the principles from Good to Great. Okay, and Jim Collins is the? Jim Collins, yeah. He was a speaker at a few of our events. Yeah. Best book that you've read for pleasure lately? Oh boy. I actually just finished reading a book and it's just because it's on top of my mind. I think it's called The Man Who Harness gravity or the man it was about this Not very well known Scientist and in the 50s 40s 50s 60s who started doing these experiments supposedly with gravity and how it was covered off It's what just a fascinating understanding of science and the Cold War and everything happening Not the best book ever read. It's funny because last night my wife and I were talking about Tom Wolfe's Men in Full, which is now on Netflix. I just saw that. Oh, the book is ten times better Okay, the series is good But I will tell, I told my son, read him, read a man in full because Tom Wolfe, there's just not a lot of amazing writers. No, I got to read that because I, we just, I was like, Oh, let's watch it. But it was fascinating. It really was like, wow, the cloud Atlas. So I know that you only asked for one, but A Cloud Atlas is another incredible book that I love. But yeah. All right. We got my list. All right. I already know the answer to this because, but coffee or tea? Oh my God. I'm a Starbucks. My joke in my career is I never not have a Starbucks cup. Can you tell everyone how much coffee we're talking about? I do two of these every morning. I do two five shot Americanos. Wow. All right. I'm going to try one of them one of these days and I'll see how I sleep. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I sleep great. Oh my gosh, you're the caffeine man. One song you always have to sing along to? Born to Run, Bruce Springsteen. Oh, you're a Bruce fan? Oh, absolutely. I'm a Jersey girl. There you go. Couldn't get into him. No, how can you not like Bruce? Are you a Bon Jovi girl? I prefer Bon Jovi over them, but I have to say I'm neither. I was like the disco queen. Oh, okay. So I strive to be whatever you need me to be. You're a Bee Gees. Yeah, Bee Gees was like the first one. I had their first album. Alright, fair. Love that they're geniuses. Yeah, no, absolutely. Favorite sport? I have to say lacrosse because my son is at Penn State just graduating, but he's played all four years. You love lacrosse? Yeah, it's been a, but I do love football. Okay. Yeah. And then the last question is the weirdest place you've ever traveled to and why? I've been, so I think the, I don't know if we'd call it the weirdest, but it is a place called Jeju Island off the coast of South Korea. It's like their resort area. And it, they don't see a lot of Western tourists there, it's growing now, obviously. But, so there was this fascination with blue eyed blonde hair, I had hair at the time, or some, right? And it was also where you've heard stories about the lady divers. And these women, when it was this really incredible culture that started, the men are like useless and drunkards, and I'm not making this up. And the lady divers are out there every morning and they're able to dive. Down to incredibly deep levels without any gear and stuff. And they pull up these sea urchins and everything and uni and all this and being able to meet them and then with an interpreter, talk to them. And it was just this incredible environment. It wasn't overdeveloped or super developed yet. Cause you go in and even to Beijing or other places, it still feels like you're in somewhere in America. It's become that common, right? There was like that unique different type of thing and it was just I love Asia. I have to go I have to go back to Asia. I only went I've been once I was in I went to Thailand and then actually went to Cambodia to Angkor Wat, which was a is that amazing? It was one of I would say it was a life altering trip Actually, it was just there was so much intensity about everything you were experiencing and the people and They're actually incredibly humble people with an incredible amount of dignity. They don't beg at all, even though they need, they asked to work for you. It's I just got goosebumps. I felt the ties are the same way to me They're just such an incredibly, you know kind as people and we just there's like an aura there and there is yeah There's a grace. Yeah a total grace and then malaysia to this island in the malaysia. Yeah I can't start with the pier. Anyway, the king goes there and so Yeah, i've been to kuala lumpur. Look I could talk about that. I love traveling but now Can't stand it. Really? It's just, I feel like it's become so, the world is really small. Yeah. We always talk about the world is flat. I think Thomas Friedman. It's like everywhere you go, it's just become so crowded. Yeah. And so overwrought. I don't know. No, I agree with you. I'm just getting old. No, I think that a lot of the Even New York. I love a New Yorker. Yeah. At heart. Yeah. We had an apartment, my last role in the Upper East Side. Yeah. It's just so busy. It is exhausting. And I love it there. I hate to say it, but I think this might be age. It's age. It's age. I'm old. I'm calm and peace. I'm old. I get it. I know. It's okay. My nieces live in New York. They're like, what do you mean you can't stand coming here? My son too, yeah. Oh my god, it's too crazy. Yeah, there's just too much going on. All right. You're allowed. All right. Thank you so much. for having me. I look forward to working with you more in the future. Absolutely. We're really excited about everything you're doing and your very exciting future. So thank you everyone for joining us. And again, don't forget to check out the show notes for the link to sign up to receive first notification when we launch our exciting new peer network and event series. Thanks so much.

Heather Holst-Knudsen 43:03

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43:07

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