#43 The Truth Behind 'Calories In, Calories Out': Why It's Not Working for You

In this episode of the Never Diet Again Show, Max Lowery and coach Mollie delve into the complexities of weight loss, focusing on the fundamental principle of calories in versus calories out.

They explore why this seemingly simple concept is often difficult to implement, discussing the challenges of tracking calories accurately, the confusion surrounding caloric awareness, and the role of exercise in weight loss.

They also address the significant impact of emotional eating and the importance of understanding the root causes of weight gain, emphasizing that sustainable weight loss requires more than a calorie deficit.

In this conversation, Max Lowery and Mollie discuss the psychological aspects of weight loss, focusing on emotional eating, the all-or-nothing mentality, identity shifts, negative self-talk, and limiting beliefs.

They emphasize the importance of addressing these root causes for sustainable weight loss and personal growth rather than just following strict diets or exercise plans. The conversation highlights the need for proper support and accountability in overcoming these challenges and achieving long-term success.

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Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00.086)

All you need is a calorie deficit for weight loss, right? It's simple. Just eat less and do more. End of story. If you're not doing those two things, it's because you're lazy and unmotivated. If only it were that easy. If it was, why is there an obesity epidemic in the Western world? Today we're diving into why the simple concept of eating less and moving more is simple as an idea, but in practice and execution, it can be incredibly complicated. And we'll uncover the reason why knowing what to do and actually doing it are worlds apart.

Speaker 1 (00:32.61)

How do you create a life that allows you to lose weight, eat the foods that you love, and sustain the results? Over the last 10 years, I've helped thousands of people do exactly that. I'm Max Lowery. I'm an author, personal trainer, and weight loss coach. In this podcast, I'm going to share my top tips and tricks from within my one-on-one coaching program. It's my goal to give you the tools and understanding so that you never diet again.

Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of the Never Diet Again Show. If you don't know who the hell we are, my name is Max Lowery. I'm a weight loss coach. I've been helping women over 40 lose weight for the last 10 years. In that time, I've helped thousands of women not just lose weight, keep the weight off for the rest of their lives because what I am interested in, what my team is interested in, is long-term behavioral change and addressing the root cause of the problem instead of just focusing on the symptoms. Today, I'm joined by one of our coaches, Molly. Molly, who are you? What are you interested in? Why are you here?

everyone, I'm Molly. So I'm a, I actually spent some time mainly in women's health coaching. I've been with Max and the team for a few months now, but actually started as a client within the program. So I had quite a unique situation. So yeah, just really interested in helping people with that sustained authentic change.

But yeah, it is a unique perspective because you come in and experience what we're about and then actually became one of our clients as well, which means you are really able to have that different perspective to which, you know, myself and Shane can have because we built the program. We haven't been through the program, whereas you've been through the program. So yeah, good to have you. yeah, today we're talking about the so-called simple concept of calories in calories out for weight loss. Talking about that, but then also why is that simple concept so difficult?

Because there's one thing that I hear more than anything on the hundreds of calls that I do or thousands of calls that I do a year with women who want to lose weight. I have a pretty good understanding of what people are struggling with and why they can't get results. I spent hours and hours, know, God knows how many hours, thousands of hours on the phone one-on-one with people just like yourself listening to this podcast. And the one thing that I hear more than anything is I know what I need to be doing.

Speaker 1 (02:50.06)

I'm just not doing it. And I want to kind of explore that in a bit more detail and understand why that's happening because in theory, everyone knows they need to eat less and move more to create a calorie deficit and lose weight. But for whatever reason, it's not happening. So this is what this episode is about. If you've ever said that to yourself, then make sure you keep listening. We're going to talk about a lot of different topics on this call and I want to kind of make a disclaimer now.

I'm not saying that you should disregard calories in, calories out. If you want to lose weight, you have to create a calorie deficit. That is the fundamental principle that needs to happen. And obviously the idea of it is relatively simple. It's not that hard to understand. But if it was simple, I don't think there would be a weight problem, you know, a massive weight problem in the Western world. You know, we're at a stage where almost more people are dying of obesity-related diseases than starvation. Like it's, I think it's basically 50-50 at the moment and it's tipped to

become more people dying. In some ways it's a good thing. less people are dying of starvation, but obviously we're just going completely the other way. So I guess let's discuss first the basic mechanics of creating calorie deficit, right? So there's two ways that you can do it. You can eat a bit less or you can move more to create that deficit. If you're not in a deficit, you're potentially in a surplus. So that means you're consuming more. And if you're in a surplus, potentially

you're going to put on weight gradually. And then you've got something which is in between a deficit and a surplus, which is maintenance. So if you ever hear someone say maintenance calories, it means you are roughly eating the same amount of calories that you are burning. And in theory, you should maintain your weight. I don't know about you, Molly, but have you, as someone who is interested in this space and, you know, probably follows certain other fitness influences, the one thing that I hear all the time is just doesn't matter what you do, just

It doesn't matter what you eat, it doesn't matter how you train, just create a calorie deficit and that's all you need. Like it's something incredibly simple, which I find quite patronizing. Is that what you've heard as well?

Speaker 2 (04:57.098)

Yeah, and I mean, you just said it there as well, but I think there's also a lot of, there seems to be a lot of pressure on the calorie element as well, but you know, just moving and what you're burning and how active you are plays a huge part in this as well. And for me, my biggest frustration is the push on specifically what you're eating and forgetting that actually movement and what you're burning also helps with weight loss.

Sure, ideally you want a combination of both. If you're just focusing on one or the other, it's not likely, you're not likely to get results. So all the advice we give to our clients creates a calorie deficit. Ultimately, that's why the fat loss happens. But we go about that in a very different way. And we're to go more into that a bit later. That is the basic concept of a calorie deficit. You know, you have to eat a bit less and you have to move a bit more ideally to create that calorie deficit. The issue with it is

People often think they are in a calorie deficit when they're not. The thing I hear all the time is, I'm only eating 1200 calories, but I'm not losing weight. I'm only eating 800 calories, but I'm not losing weight. And the fact of the matter is, you're not. Like if you're not losing weight, you're not in a deficit. So we have to really clarify this, really just at the most basic function. If you're not losing weight, means you're not in a deficit. So...

What actually happens and what I see with people who think they're eating 800 calories or 1200 calories is a few things. Either they're not tracking effectively, so they're actually eating way more than they think. And I actually posted, head over to my Instagram if you want to see this video, but it was a video of a... I think she's an actress who had quite a bit of weight to lose and she told herself that she had a... She believed she had a slow metabolism. And so basically she went in to get these tests to see if she actually had a slow metabolism.

And of course she didn't. Her metabolism was exactly where it should be. And fair play to her. She, you know, she laughed it off. She wasn't trying to be defensive about it. She's like, this is something I've been telling myself for a long time. But then what they did with her is they got her to track her food basically. And I think they did it initially with a video. So she just had to record on video what she ate. And then she did it with a written food log. So she wasn't actually inputting anything into an app. She was just recording into a video, writing it down.

Speaker 1 (07:20.546)

When she recorded the video, she basically tracked and 1200 calories. So she thought she was eating 1200. And what they did, which is quite incredible, they gave her this, I can't remember what it was called. It was like water something. And was like this water that you drink, which is full of markers. And when you piss the water out, excuse my language, when it comes out the other end, they take, they test your urine and they can tell you not just what's going on with metabolism.

but also exactly how many calories you've eaten. Yeah, really interesting. Imagine if this was available to us as coaches, it would be incredible. Maybe it will be one day. And so she thought she was eating 1200 calories. Turns out she was eating 3000 calories. Massive difference. When she was doing the written calorie tracking, it was a bit more accurate. I think she was eating something, she thought she was eating something like 1500 calories.

and I think she actually ate like 2,500 calories. So a bit better, but still a thousand calories out. So.

Max, just on that, what do you think there's any particular reason why, you know, as a society, we don't have this awareness on how many calories are in certain foods?

Well, I think it's potentially a difficult... It's not something that, you know, from a very young age... It's not something natural to human beings to understand, I don't think. know, it's... A calorie is essentially... It's a unit of measurements and it's... I remember doing a science experiment in school and it was basically how much heat or energy, you know, the food produces. I remember burning a peanut. Something's ridiculous like that. So it's just not something that from a very young age we're taught to think about.

Speaker 1 (09:00.556)

which means suddenly you're having to kind of learn about them when you're an adult. And then I think it's potentially kept purposely confusing, especially with food companies who have, they have to display how much, how many calories are in a certain food, but they often do it like, you know, it's, they do it per 100 grams or they do it per 60 grams. They don't actually say, all right, there's this many calories in this bar. So I think it's just kept a bit confusing combined with the fact that people are having to learn it quite late on, which is, yeah, it's.

I think it's also quite a scary concept, I think because there's all of this noise about calories that people shy away from, you know, looking at how many calories are in foods. Often, you know, you can have certain foods that are...

really nutrient dense, but slightly higher in calories. And I think when, with all of this confusion around calories in, calories out, it creates, it does create a lot of noise and confusion around, you know, the negatives and positives to calories. And people, think, just are scared to actually track and have that awareness. And then it becomes this calorie counting, which obviously is the negative side when it comes to calories.

Yeah, I think there's definitely confusion because another thing that I hear all the time is, but I only eat healthy food and I'm not losing weight. Yeah. Because there's some kind of belief that healthy food doesn't contain calories. All food contains calories. Even the healthiest food contains calories. And I think there's just this idea that it doesn't count if you're eating healthy foods. And the biggest mistake I see with clients is, you know, I find out once they say that, I'm like, okay, you know,

talk to me a bit about what a day's eating look like and they're like, you know, I have some porridge for breakfast and then in between breakfast and lunch, I'm having, I'm snacking on nuts. And then, you know, for lunch, I'm having all this avocado and then, you in the afternoon I'm snacking on more nuts and you know, all those fats do add up. And I think, you know, there has been a recent push to make people more aware of the calories. So I think most, I think there was a law in the UK. So if you're a restaurant business or chain,

Speaker 1 (11:07.468)

with more than so many employees, you have to display how many calories are in the food. And I was asked a lot about this. What's my opinion on it? I think probably on the whole, it's a good thing. You know, if we are struggling with a weight issue in the UK, which we are with the fattest country in Europe by far, then potentially arming people with that data and that information is going to make people make better decisions. And I'll, there's an example of this, a client of mine,

wanted to go out with some colleagues and her colleagues wanted to go to Pizza Express but she was like, no, know, pizza, pizza's bad. And obviously I gave her a lesson in good and bad foods after I heard this. But you know, in her mind, she's like, oh no, Pizza Express is bad, it's going to be way too high in calories, I'm going to make her a better choice and then I go to Wagamama. So she goes to Wagamama and she has, you know, like a salmon something, which, you on the face of it was salmon, vegetables and like a broth or something. So she thought it wouldn't be very high in calories. But for the first time,

they had the calories on the meal and it was 900 calories. And she then went and checked Pizza Express and she would have only had half a pizza. And I think pizza was like 450 calories or 500 calories. It's examples like that because what's interesting, if the calories weren't on the menus, right, what would have happened is potentially she would have thought, I've been good. I've chosen the healthy option, presumably lowering calories. And then at the end of the week, maybe she would have been a surplus. Maybe the weight wouldn't have gone down. And she's like,

this isn't working, I've been trying really hard, I've been choosing all the healthy stuff and I'm still not losing weight. So that data, that does empower you to actually just look at, to understand what you're eating and what you're consuming. But on the flip side, I think lots of people weren't happy about the calories because if you have come from a place of restrictive eating and you're obsessing about calories, it can potentially lead to anxiety and stress and perpetuate disordered eating.

You know, it's nuanced, it depends on the individual, but I think on the whole, if you've got no idea of calories and you're eating these kinds of places, potentially it can make you... and you're actively trying to lose weight, potentially it's going to make it easier. So tracking calories is notoriously difficult. Even if you are being... even if you're very experienced, and I'm fairly experienced, I don't do it anymore, but I have done it quite a lot in the past, you're still going to make mistakes. It's not going to be 100 % accurate. And especially when you combine that with the data that you get from your tech.

Speaker 1 (13:33.23)

from your tech, from the watches that you're wearing, the step trackers. Most of this tech grossly exaggerates how many calories that you're burning on a day-to-day basis. And that can lull people into a false sense of security where they might be tracking their calories and most likely they're going to be under-reporting. That's like people don't over-report, they under-report. So you're thinking you're eating less than you are and then you're also getting all this overestimation from the calories that you're getting on your watch or whatever it is and you think you're in a deficit and you're not. So then again, this...

issue of thinking you're in a calorie deficit, not losing weight and then telling yourself, well, a calorie deficit doesn't work. And this is something that again, we hear all the time. The other thing that happens with people who are on like, tell me who, oh yeah, 800 calories, I'm only eating 800 calories and 1200 calories is let's say that they are only eating 800 calories, right? And they're being 100 % precise with their tracking, like they're getting it down to a T. They might do that for five days, six days, seven days, but then what's going to happen is that's a massive deficit.

they're going to overeat and binge and make up for it at some point and push themselves into a surplus. So a calorie deficit does work. It is notoriously difficult to accurately track if you're in a deficit or not using calorie tracking and tracking the data. Really the only way that you can actually see if you're in the calorie deficit or not is if the weight is coming off. And I'm not talking about like week on week. I'm talking about kind of like over a longer period of time, kind of two, three, two weeks, three weeks, four weeks.

is a better teller. If the weight is coming down over the course of a month, then you're clearly in a deficit. If it's not, then you're not.

Max, is there, and obviously with the other side of this is the calories out. How would you approach that in a more sustainable way? Cause I think there's, you know, I've even worked with clients where they're coming to me and saying, you know, well, I do a HIIT workout every day for half an hour, or I'm, you know, running two times a week, but really extensively. And it does seem at times there's this intensity around calories out as well. How do you see that more sustainably?

Speaker 1 (15:37.516)

Exercise will improve your life in thousands of ways. By itself, exercise is not a good weight loss tool. And if the only reason that you are doing these hard hit sessions is because you want a calorie burn, then you are unlikely to get the results that you want for a number of reasons. Firstly, when you do very hard exercise and push yourself hard, your hunger levels drastically increase. So you are much hungrier. And secondly, you're stiff and sore after these sessions. So you're actually sometimes being

end up being less active overall because you're stiff and sore, but also because there's a psychological switch that happens like, I've done a really hard session. Now I can lie down for the rest of the day. You know, I think another mistake people make with the deficit is they're just, they're attacking the problem with a sledgehammer. You know, they're going to go in and they're going to create a massive deficit, massive reduction in the food that they're eating and massive increase in the amount of exercise that they're doing. And that's how most diets work. That's how, you know,

Any crappy PT will help you lose weight is by just doing very extreme things. You know, as I said, using a sledgehammer to fix the problem. Whereas the way that we help our clients is much more refined and we use very precise tools to create that calorie deficit. We try and essentially have the deficit as small as possible, still getting results. And that takes much more

one-on-one support, understanding of each individual. No generic meal plans or anything like that. No strict workouts. It's much harder to do as coaches, but that's what we're very good at. We've gone into why the actual mechanics and the practicality of tracking calories is really difficult. Now I want to go into start peeling back the layers of the onion and taking this a bit deeper because really if the only thing that you're doing to lose weight is eating less and moving more, you're going to get superficial

Surface level results because it's a surface level solution if that's you know, if you do that and that's what most diets do That's what most pts will give you. That's what most other weight loss coaches will give you They'll just be like right you want to lose weight. So that's manipulate your food. Let's manipulate your exercise and yes, we do that but we also go way deeper and we actually look at why has someone why has our client put on weight in the first place and That's where basically the mindset and the psychological and emotional issues come in

Speaker 1 (18:04.802)

So let's talk about kind of a few of the biggest root cause problems that we work on with our clients. And we've got a whole podcast on this. I do encourage you to listen to it. It's two or three podcasts before this one. And that goes a lot deeper into the topics we're talking today. So make sure you check that out. But we'll kind of, we'll talk about here in summary, like the typical things that we're dealing with with our clients. So I would say probably number one is emotional eating. So emotional eating.

is brought on mostly and originates mostly with your parents or your grandparents, how you were brought up, where basically if something bad happened, if something good happened, the food was brought out. don't worry, you've had a bad day at school, I've made some cake for you. you've been, you got an A in your exam, here's some cake, let's celebrate. And there's nothing wrong with that. Like I'm not trying to demonize parents or grandparents for doing this. know, food is a fundamental part of who we are as human beings and there's certainly an emotional attachment to it. But...

If that is the only way that you learn how to regulate your emotions, then that can end up with very... It will be very difficult to stay in control of your calorie intake and you're likely to end up struggling with your weight. The issue is just coming in and creating a calorie deficit, you know, so basically using... The classic example is January, right, I've got motivation and willpower, so I'm going to eat less, I'm going to move more in some way, shape or form. There's loads of different ways you can do that. And people go all in January.

and they might get some results at the end of January. Maybe they lose a bit of weight. But then guess what? Into February, the motivation, the willpower starts to run out. Life happens, job happens, children happen. Maybe something stressful happens and you turn to your traditional way of dealing with the stress and the negative emotion, which is turning to food. And until you learn how to regulate your emotions, improve your emotional intelligence in a different way, it's just going to be more of that cycle of losing weight when there's motivation and willpower.

But then as soon as that is dried up and you haven't actually changed how you deal with the emotions, then you turn to food and the weight comes back on. And the longer that goes on, the worse this whole thing gets. So just focusing on the calorie deficit will not address how you process your emotions. And that is a fundamental part of what we're working on with our clients. And of course, when you do know, when we do teach our clients how to process their emotions in a different way, guess what?

Speaker 1 (20:27.02)

their calories reduce, so they create a calorie deficit. Yes, the goal, one of the big factors in reducing emotional eating is, well, you feel better about yourself on the whole, you process your emotions in a more positive way, which makes you feel good and takes you closer towards your goals, but then it also is more likely to create a calorie deficit. Okay, so calorie deficit is essential, but if that's the only thing that you're focusing on, not likely to get results.

Really quick one for me guys, I don't run ads on this podcast and I do aim to give you as many high value tips and tricks as I can for free. All I ask in return is that you help me spread the word. That way I can help as many people as I can to never die again. The way to do that is to rate, review and share this podcast. A review will only take 30 seconds but it would mean the world to me but more importantly it could help change the life of someone else.

I was just going to add on this as well, and Max and I did a podcast on this the other week. Often I think emotional eating can come across as snacking. And actually a few clients that we've worked with, when we look at their main meals, often at times they're in a calorie deficit.

but what's taking them out of that calorie deficit is this emotional eating. And often that is not what we're always aware of. You you're consuming these foods and not really eating mindfully. So by really looking at emotional eating and you know, how that might come across as snacking can really demonstrate where you might be out of a calorie deficit. I think often people don't really realize how many calories can come from this kind of behavior.

Yeah, I think the biggest issue is a lot of people aren't even aware that they're doing it. It's just, it often, they call it fog eating. So it's completely mindless. You know, you get home and the first thing you do is just kind of reach for the biscuits or whatever it is. And you're not even consciously thinking about what you're doing. And we've had clients at the start of program who kind of say that they don't really overeat and binge and emotionally eat. And then they go through the process that we take them through. And then they're like, Oh, wow, I was just completely unaware of what I was doing and the impact it was having.

Speaker 1 (22:35.022)

But you're 100 % right. think a lot of the clients, a lot of the people we speak to, they know that they need to kind of cook from scratch from fresh ingredients. And that's maybe what they do. They're eating a decent breakfast, lunch and dinner, but then they're turning to food in times of stress, negative emotion. They're rewarding themselves with food. Oh, I've had a bad day. I deserve a treat. And they just don't realize how... They don't even register it firstly. And if they don't realize how detrimental it is and how much it leads to sabotage. And then of course...

they come to the conclusion because they're eating healthily like, oh, it must be something wrong with me. It must be the menopause. It must be my genes. It must be this, that, and that. When in actual fact, they haven't really the issue is emotional. Eating is a big one. And what boggles my mind is, you know, I've, literally had a call last night with, I'm not going to say her name, but she ended up joining the program. She's going to be your coach, one of your clients, Molly. So she's worked with a weight loss coach before. And so on this call, I'm trying to kind of

Determine exactly like what this weight loss so-called weight loss coach did with her and it was exactly as you expected It was you know, relatively strict macronutrient plan and it was like really getting her to focus on the exercise and I was and then you know with the line of questioning I was using I realized that this client was turning to food in times of stress and negative emotion and I said, you know Did your weight loss coach even mention that at all? And she said no, so Unfortunately this stuff that we're talking about right now the psychological stuff the mindset stuff the emotional regulation

It is much more complicated. It really does take years of experience working with people to really understand this. And unfortunately, most coaches are just focusing on the surface level. Another massive thing which this client was suffering from last night was something known as all or nothing thinking. And the exact term that she used was, I just say fuck it and I'm just going to go and eat all weekend kind of thing. And we also call it the fuck it bucket. And all or nothing thinking is

very common and essentially it leads to periods of going all in. So aiming to be perfect. So tracking every gram of food, reducing the carbohydrates, not eating any, not drinking any alcohol at the same time as, right, I'm going to do 10,000 steps every single day. I'm to do a work like 15 minute workout every single day. So periods of that when the motivation and willpower is high, but then because that is just unenjoyable and unsustainable and the expectations are just all wrong, inevitably.

Speaker 1 (25:00.92)

there's one day where you slip up and because you have all nothing thinking or black and white thinking, it leads to if I make a single mistake, then I failed. So then it's a case of you make that mistake. I failed. Fuck it. I'll start again on Monday. I'll start again in January. it's December. There's no point. I'll start and you know, all this kind of line of thinking and it is an incredibly draining cycle to be stuck in. And the problem is a lot of the clients that we work with have tried

so many different ways to lose weight that they end up with this belief or this identity of someone that cannot succeed at weight loss. So this is slowly but surely as the years go by, as the weight goes on off and on repeatedly, there's this voice in your head that starts to tell you that this is just how it is. It's your genes. It's your metabolism. Other people can do it. I can't. And when you're every time you go through this all or nothing cycle, it's giving evidence and proof to that identity and to those beliefs.

So it is a very detrimental draining cycle to be in of these periods of just doing everything and then doing nothing and then feeling very guilty about it afterwards. So really, again, if the only thing that you're doing, you're going with a traditional personal trainer, for example, and that personal trainer gives you the macro plan and it gives you the workout plan to create a calorie deficit, but you have all or nothing thinking in the background and it's not being acknowledged and you don't even realize it's a problem, what's going to happen is...

You're going to be working with this PT. You're going to be really motivated. You're going to be doing everything that he says for a period of time. Let's say, you know, a month or maybe even longer. And then maybe there might be a week where everything goes to shit for whatever reason, you know, life happens because you have all or nothing thinking you're going be like, right, I've failed again. This doesn't work. I can't do it. I'm not going to go see the PT. I'm going to hide from him or her. And this is something we see with our clients occasionally, especially at the beginning of the program. Sometimes things go wrong and they hide from us because they feel like they failed and we're

very much harassing them and chasing them and calling them and trying to get hold of them because you know there's no such thing as failure at the end of the day and if you're not actually giving up. All or nothing thinking in this way is going to be a massive, leads to self-sabotage and lack of consistency ultimately.

Speaker 2 (27:11.522)

With this one as well, think even on the all side of things, often the all side isn't sustainable. And you might work with a PT or yourself wanting to...

get all of these workouts in or eat in a certain way. But as Max said, life happens and we want to enjoy life and we want to have, you know, flexibility and be able to dial up and dial down different behaviors and habits that we want to sustain. And I think often this all mindset that people have then causes restriction and removal from social environments, you know, really strict day by day routines. And again, that is a lot of

pressure, it's a lot of high expectations, which again brings an element of emotion. So I think with both of that, going in with this approach is a lot of pressure on yourself and really not sustainable.

Essentially, you're setting yourself up to fail from the very beginning. You you set unrealistic expectations on yourself. So it's a form of self-sabotage in a way. You're giving yourself absolutely no chance to succeed from the very beginning. And then again, like I said earlier, the longer that goes on, it just feeds the idea that you can't do this and it's not possible for you. So it's so detrimental. And if you're anyone listening to this, if you're working with a weight loss coach now, if you're working with a personal trainer now, if they haven't mentioned this to you at all, get rid of them. Like you can't not.

Acknowledge this and work through this and get out of that all-or-nothing mentality. So yeah, it's a big problem and I'll say the next thing which is Even deeper than the things that we've been talking about. We're kind of going layers deepest We've got the kind of emotional eating we've got the like all-or-nothing thinking and I've alluded to it to this your identity so if you Fundamentally like a lot of the clients that we work with they've been overweight from a very young age so in in their own words, I've always been the chubby one if

Speaker 1 (29:01.122)

that has been your experience or even if it wasn't from a young age and you've just spent 10, 15, 20 years of your life dieting and not succeeding. Essentially you just come to this conclusion, this is unconscious, this isn't a conscious conclusion or decision, but you come to this conclusion that this is just how it is, this is just who I am, I've always been overweight, it's not possible for me to lose weight, I've tried so many different times, there must be something wrong with me. And again, this is unconscious most of the time.

You might be vaguely aware this is what you think about yourself, but this is like on a much deeper identity level. And whilst you believe that about yourself, whilst you have the identity of someone that cannot lose weight and struggles with their weight, you will never lose weight and keep it off ever because you will always revert back to your existing identity. So you might go through fits and starts of dieting, you know, in January, the willpower motivation, losing a bit of weight, but in the back of your mind,

And again, it's unconscious. You're going to be thinking the weight's going to come back on. What's the point anyway? Or if you get to your goal weight, this happens a lot, suddenly the motivation disappears to carry on and you just revert back to your existing identity, which is someone that cannot lose weight and you know, the weight comes back on. So you must shift your identity in order to get long-term success. I'll give another example in a slightly different cat-like area, which can help illustrate this point. The example that I use a lot is...

Two people are trying to quit smoking. All right, they've got two people and both of them are offered a cigarette. But for person number one, off of the cigarette, responses, no thanks, I'm trying to quit, which sounds reasonable. And then person number two, again, offered a cigarette, no thanks, I'm not a smoker. Who here on the podcast can notice a difference between those two before I go into it? So we've got person number one says, no thanks, I'm trying to quit. Person number two says, no thanks, I'm not a smoker.

So it's a very slight change in language, but the intention behind the language is everything. So person number one ultimately still believes they're a smoker. They are trying to quit smoking, they're trying to reduce the habit of smoking, but on a deep fundamental level, they associate with being a smoker. Whereas person number two no longer identifies with being a smoker. Like that is nothing to do with me anymore. That is not who I am. That is the old version of myself. That's not something that is in line with who I do today.

Speaker 1 (31:24.66)

If anyone is trying to quit smoking here, there's a great book by Alan Carr called How to Quit Smoking the Easy Way. He talks a lot about this kind of identity. Another example I use myself, my nickname was Party Boy, drugs, alcohol, I was a nightclub promoter, my life was the exact opposite of what it is now. And then slowly but surely I tried to get myself out of that. But whilst I still believed I was party boy, I would go through fits and starts of reducing the drugs, reducing the alcohol. But...

I still fundamentally believed I was that person and I still associated with wanting to be that person and wanting to be that person in that environment. So I had to shift my own identity into something that is closer to what I am today. It was something quite fundamental. I went from being the person that got the most drunk, took the most drugs to the person that was waking up early, going on bike rides, being fit, being active and excelling sports, which actually is

who my real identity was, that was what I did before the drugs and the party.

Max, for people that are on the podcast thinking, you know, I've never even thought about my identity. This is something that has never really crossed my mind. You know, I've lived life for so long just doing what I'm doing. Really understanding how you identify and want to identify yourself. Do you think it's, what do you think then changes for you? Do you think it's the way that you start behaving, the habits that you have?

It's everything. It's your habits, your behaviors, it's your reactions, it's your emotions, it's your beliefs about yourself and the world around you. And I think, yeah, you raise a really good point. I think most people who aren't listening to this podcast, who are just in my Instagram audience, who want to lose weight, they don't want to acknowledge this is the kind of thing that they need to do. And maybe you listening to this podcast right now, you don't want to acknowledge that this is what you need to do. You just want a meal plan and a workout plan. But that's unfortunately not what works.

Speaker 1 (33:14.594)

You know, that's more of the same. You've done that. You're not listening to this podcast if you're not looking to lose weight. So if you're listening to this, you've most likely done that and it hasn't worked. And you could think like, this is hard. This is too difficult. Choose your hard. Staying in this situation, doing the same thing over and over again, being overweight, not having anything to wear, know, feeling bogged down by a negative self-talk and emotional eating and feeling guilty all the time. That's hard. So is potentially working through this identity stuff. Both options are hard.

which one would you rather stick to? You know, really is quite simple. Like life is hard either way. If you want to become the best version of yourself, it's hard. If you want to stay stuck in this pace of pain, it's hard. But only one way, only one hard actually leads to where you want to be. So the amount of kind of times I hear on these calls that I do with these potential clients is like, well, and sometimes it's even before. Maybe like you guys listening to this right now.

You know, I'm sure you've maybe listened to this podcast a few times and I always give the option to book in a call and you know, plenty of people do, which is great and they end up becoming clients, but lots don't. And I think the reason for that is because lots of people are thinking, well, I've tried every diet. I know everything. I know everything about weight loss. don't, what could a coach possibly teach me? But really what we're talking about in this call is what you'll, what we'll teach you. It's really going a lot deeper than you've ever gone before and addressing the root cause of the problem.

But on the flip as well on top of this, if you do address these root causes, you don't just lose weight. Every aspect of your life improves. There's crossover into every aspect of your life. If you're shifting your identity, if you're reducing emotional eating, if you're reducing all or nothing thinking, if you're reducing negative self-talk, every aspect of your life improves. And ultimately that's why I do what I do. And I'm sure it's the same for you, Molly. Like yes, it's a weight loss program, but actually...

I'm most interested in helping my clients become the best version of themselves in every aspect of their lives. And when you do that, the byproduct is weight loss instead of the sole focus. Yeah, it's certainly different and it's certainly hard and it can be intimidating and daunting, but the reward is exponential.

Speaker 2 (35:26.542)

It's possible. think often people, and you've said it before, maybe label themselves in a certain way and think, I can't become this new person. And often we see clients aspire to have an identity that is worlds apart from where they are now, but it's possible. And it is something that takes time. But I think, you know, if people are listening to this thinking, you know, for me, I wanted, well, I'm working towards being a...

becoming a runner and it's something that I've never done before, never thought I would, used to actually label myself as not being a runner. And I think it's actually having that, you know, confidence and bravery to think I do want to change and it is possible. Working with, you know, coaches like ourselves to get you there. But I think there is automatically this barrier of it's not possible, but we're seeing it over and over again that it is.

100 % and let's acknowledge why most of our clients have that idea that it's not possible is because all they have is a stack of proof that they can't do something. They've tried every diet, they've had weight loss coaches, they've had personal trainers and they're still overweight. And really anyone listening to this right now, if you haven't had someone that has helped you work through the things that we've discussed on this call, the root cause of the problem, then there's nothing wrong with you. It's just you haven't had the right support and accountability. You haven't had, you haven't focused on the right things.

So it is possible. You're listening to this right now, you're no different from any client that we've ever had. So of course you've got your own unique life and perspective and challenges. The reason our clients get results is because they're focused on these root cause issues and they've never ever done that before. And that was the only reason they weren't getting the results before. And you're listening to this right now, you're no different to that. It is possible, but it is just gonna take a different approach. It is gonna take support and accountability from people who really know what they're doing.

All right, so we've had emotional eating, we've had all-or-nothing thinking, we've had identity. Another massive thing that we help our clients with is negative self-talk. And all these issues are interlinked and feed into each other. So when you have repeatedly failed time and time again, when you ultimately start to blame yourself, and that can lead into, and maybe the critical inner voice was there from however you were raised, your parents, your grandparents, your teachers, and then it's perpetuated by all these different diets.

Speaker 1 (37:38.112)

If you're in many of our clients, nearly all of our clients have some kind of critical inner voice which tells them that they're a failure, that they're disgusting, that they can't do this, that they don't deserve results. And ultimately if that voice, if you're listening to that voice, it's going to lead to two things again, lack of consistency and self-sabotage. It's also an incredibly tiring place to be, you know, to have this constant voice in your head, you know, ruining your life ultimately. What happens between your ears is everything. You know, it's...

You could have great relationships, great job, great family, know, financially secure. But if you've got this voice in your head telling you a piece of shit, excuse the language, it tarnishes and taints everything so you don't even appreciate and benefit from all those things. And it's a massive waste of energy and waste of life, I think. It's a difficult thing to get out of yourself. We have Ed, the mindfulness expert, mindfulness coach within the program who helps our clients become more aware of that negative.

self-voice and we have very practical tips and advice and strategies on how to overcome it. But if the only thing that you're doing is a strict meal plan and strict workout plan, you are not addressing the negative self-talk and the critical inner voice. So you must address it. Finally, we've got limiting beliefs is the last kind of big root cause issue that we help our clients with. And again, limiting beliefs can be, we've mentioned a lot on this call. I've tried and failed so many times, it's not possible for me. It's my genes, it's my metabolism. I don't like it.

Exercise I don't like eating healthily I don't have the time to do this This the belief that in order to lose weight you have to cut out your favorite foods and punish yourself in the gym is a big problem because it leads to lack of action so the issue of limiting beliefs is most of them are unconscious you don't even realize they're a problem and what I'm trained to do what all the team is trained to do is Ultimately listen to what the words that you say and the words that you say will expose limiting beliefs

And again, this is the power of working with a coach one-on-one, having that proper support and accountability. None of this scheduled DMs and a bullshit app, which a lot of these coaches are giving you. know, some of the coaches with big followings, big businesses, the way that they're offering accountability support is this with DM support, which is just all automated messages. There's no way in hell that they are going to be able to really diagnose and listen to the root cause problems and bring any of those limiting beliefs to the surface.

Speaker 1 (40:01.612)

without actually having a proper conversation with you on a weekly basis.

things right you know they take time to really identify what's happening where these thoughts are coming from but also to work through them and often a lot of programs maybe are a couple of weeks or you know you work with the PT and then suddenly you know the relationship's ended because you're no longer going to the gym and actually some of the things that Max is talking about take years to work through

because it's potentially the way that you've spoken to yourself four years previously. So it really is a longer term change, much more sustainable in terms of the things that we're talking about.

Yeah, and I think, you know, those listening to this right now are probably going to be really scared of that idea that it's just going to take a long time. You know, you could lose the weight in three to six months. Like, that's not what we're saying, but to actually shift your identity and rid yourself of some of these root causes, it takes longer than the weight it takes to get the weight off. And I challenge you to not be intimidated by that, to get excited about it. You know, really, I'm still in the process of working in my root causes and up-leveling and evolving and growing and improving. I have my own mentors and coaches constantly.

to make sure that I am not stagnating and not improving and growing. And I enjoy that. So enjoy the process of working through these things. And I think the issue is right at the start, this can seem really overwhelming because it can be really hard and scary and daunting to even address or acknowledge any of the things that we've been talking about this call. And obviously when you've got a history of failing and you've got a history of cutting out your favorite foods and punishing yourself and hating.

Speaker 1 (41:38.926)

trying to improve your life and better your life and better your health, then yeah, it's going to be almost impossible to conceive the idea that you're going to do this in the long term. But actually, when you stop approaching the problem with a sledgehammer, when you start using precision tools, when you get proper support and accountability from experts who truly understand you and your situation, and when you start to address these root cause of the problem, you start to enjoy the process and every aspect of your life improves. And I think anyone listening to this, part of the problem

I have is that you don't realize how bad the situation is. You honestly don't comprehend how bad struggling with your weight, struggling with these root cause problems, struggling with this negative self-talk and this all-or-nothing thinking and emotional eating and this guilt cycle and hopping from one day to the next, you don't realize how bad it is because it's normal. And it's only once you actually start on this journey and get the support and accountability that you need.

get yourself out of it and then look back, you'll only then realize how bad it was. And that's something that we hear time and time again with our clients. If you listen to any of the testimonials from our clients on this podcast, you will hear them acknowledge that they didn't realize how unhappy they were, how bad their life was. So I'm not trying to make you feel bad about the situation, but I'm just trying to connect you with the reality of the situation. Because if you're hiding from the reality of the situation, if you're not connected with the reality,

you're far less likely to take action. All right, so I think we've covered everything for today. Let's just kind of wrap up and summarize. So ultimately to lose weight, you have to create a calorie deficit. Okay, that is the fundamental thing that is going on. All our clients are losing weight because they're in a calorie deficit. But in order to get long-term success, in order to never have to go on another diet again, in order to improve every aspect of your life, you have to address the root cause of the problem and take it much deeper than just the calorie deficit, than just a macro target.

personal trainer, you know, workouts, you have to go layers deeper and really address these issues that we've been talking about on this call. And the analogy that I use is telling someone that needs to lose weight, that all they need to do is eat less and do more, is about as useful as telling someone that's in debt, that all they need to do is earn more and spend less. It's true, but it doesn't take anything into consideration in that person's life. Why are in that situation in the first place? What's going on with their environment, their family, their stress, their relationship with money?

Speaker 1 (44:04.45)

you know, their current job, like their expenses, their debts, it doesn't take anything in that specific consideration. And it's exactly the same as just anyone on social media, it's being like, you know, telling women over the age of 40, you've got three children, they're working in there, they're suffering from the symptoms of the perimenopause and the menopause, just eat less and move more. You know, it's not, it's patronizing, condescending advice. So anyone that does want to learn more about working with us.

best way to do it is just to click the link below, book in for a quick chat with one of my team. And it's literally just 10 minutes, honestly, it's a 10 minute chat. And we'll just be able to assess to see what your struggles are, why you haven't been able to do this. And just to see if we can help you. That's it. You know, we're not going to be selling you anything or pressuring you and thinking anything like that. It's just a chat to see if we can help. And if we can, we'll talk about the next steps. And if we can't, we'll give you any free tips and advice we can on that call. So I realize it will be

daunting and scary to potentially have this conversation. And some of you won't be ready, which is fine. But for those of you that are ready, for those of you that have had enough, for those of you that are connected with how bad the situation is, then honestly, the first step to changing your life is just booking in that call. All right. Thanks a lot, Molly. We'll see you same time next week. See you later.