Never Diet Again with Max Lowery

#113 The Hidden Cost of Being a High Achiever with Julia Starr

• Max Lowery

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What if the reason you're exhausted, stuck, or struggling isn't because you need to try harder—but because you've outgrown the life you've built? 

If you've been chasing success for years but still feel unfulfilled, this episode will challenge the way you think about achievement, identity, and what it really means to create a life you love.

In this episode, Max sits down with executive coach Julia Starr, who helps high-achieving professionals navigate career pivots without losing themselves in the process. Drawing on her background in management consulting and adult development psychology, Julia explains why so many successful people reach a point where the next promotion, pay rise, or achievement no longer brings the fulfilment they expected.

Together, they explore why burnout, anxiety, poor health, and constant stress are often symptoms of living out of alignment with your values—not signs that you simply need more discipline or resilience.

In this episode, you'll discover:

  • The 5 biggest signs you've outgrown your career or current life.
  • Why high achievers often struggle to make big changes—even when they know they're unhappy.
  • The difference between following external validation and living according to your own values.
  • How perfectionism keeps you stuck waiting for the "right" decision.
  • Why your nervous system resists change, even when change would improve your life.
  • A practical exercise that can instantly help you gain clarity on what really matters.

Max also shares how these same patterns show up in women trying to lose weight. Many believe they need another diet, stricter rules, or more willpower. But in reality, lasting transformation often comes from addressing the deeper issues underneath—stress, identity, limiting beliefs, boundaries, and the stories we tell ourselves.

If you've ever felt trapped by the life you've worked so hard to create, this conversation will remind you that you are so much more than your job or your achievements. You don't need to have your entire future mapped out before making a change. Small, intentional steps can create extraordinary transformation over time.

Ready to stop living on autopilot? Listen to the full episode today and discover how aligning your work, health, and values can help you build a life that actually feels good—not just one that looks successful from the outside.

https://www.instagram.com/juliastarrcoaching/

https://www.juliastarrcoaching.com/

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Book a Food Freedom Breakthrough Call: https://www.neverdietagainmethod.uk/call-ig

Watch my The Cravings & Fat-Burning Masterclass:  https://www.neverdietagainmethod.uk/register-podcast

Outgrowing Your Life Not Your Diet

Max Lowery

Today's episode is a little different. On the surface, it sounds like we're talking about careers, but we're not really talking about careers at all. We're actually talking about what happens when you've outgrown your life. Because this is one of the biggest mistakes I see women make all the time. And that is believing that their weight is the problem or that food is the problem. And therefore they think they need a better meal plan, more motivation, more willpower, or the perfect workout routine. But after coaching thousands of women, I've realized that weight gain is a symptom of something much deeper. Could be chronic stress, nervous system dysregulation, people pleasing, perfectionism. And sometimes it's staying in a life that no longer fits who you've become. Today's guest is Julia Starr, an executive coach who helps high-achieving women navigate major life and career transitions. She works with women who spent years chasing success, ticking every box, doing everything they were told would make them happy, only to wake up one day feeling exhausted, disconnected, and wondering, is this really it? And although her clients come to her because of their careers, I think you'll notice something interesting. The process she takes them through is very similar to what we do within the Live 360 program and I'll never die again method. Because whether you're trying to change your career, improve your relationships, lose weight, or simply be happier, the solution isn't another strategy. It's understanding yourself. It's uncovering the beliefs, identity, and unconscious patterns that have been running your life for years. So if you're feeling stuck right now and you find yourself saying, I know what I should do, but I can't seem to do it, or if you've achieved a lot in life but still feel like something is missing, I think you're gonna get a lot from this conversation. Let's get into it. How do you create a life that allows you to lose weight, eat the foods that you love, and sustain the results? Over the last 10 years, I've helped thousands of people do exactly that. I'm Max Lowry. I'm an author, personal trainer, and weight loss coach. In this podcast, I'm gonna share my top tips and tricks from within my one-on-one coaching program. It's my goal to give you the tools and understanding so that you never diet again.

Meet Executive Coach Julia Starr

Max Lowery

Tell us what you do, who you help, and how you got into what you do.

SPEAKER_01

Happy to, and thanks for having me. So, as Max shared, I'm Julia Starr. I'm an executive coach. I largely coach high achievers through career pivots, whether they're corporate employees or startup founders. I have a background in adult development psychology. And before making my own pivot into coaching, I worked in management consulting for a firm called BCG. So I have my own lived experience of working in the corporate space, which really informs how I guide my clients through their own pivots. Sometimes they're pivoting from employer to employer, other times they're leaving full-time employment entirely to become startup founders. And if they already are startup founders, the questions are do I continue to build? Do I retire? Or what do I do once I've potentially exited my first business?

Max Lowery

Fascinating. And like what made you pivot? Like, why did you become a coach, having you know been in that corporate world?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I actually discovered coaching through working with a coach myself. I didn't know that coaching was a field of practice. I was leaving consulting because I knew that that wasn't going to be what I wanted to do for my entire career. I had been successful on that path, but also after a couple of years in the space, I realized that I wanted my work to be more tied to my outcomes. Um, consulting, you're quite kind of uh removed from the people that you're impacting. And I worked with a coach alongside speaking to a lot of my own mentors as I was leaving the firm. And the difference in the feedback that I got between those two kind of roles, mentor versus coach, was so drastically different from each other. And the feedback that I got from the coach ultimately was what I followed. I through that process realized, oh, there's this function of quote unquote coach that for me unlocked such deep insight that was highly motivating, highly aligned, and really led into one of the greatest periods of my life, which was partnering with my grandfather in a family business. Um, that I was kind of mind-blown by the way that she spoke to me and the insights she was able to draw out of me. So after working inside that family business and doing some more reflection on what kind of work I wanted to do from there, I thought I would love to be able to facilitate that same experience for other people and other people who maybe are struggling to kind of separate their high achiever identity and traditional kind of corporate track that they've been thinking about pursuing or have been pursuing for a long time and really open their minds to all of the different possibilities that are available to us in our lives from a work and life design perspective. So uh Catherine Tenney is the name of the coach who really uh exposed me to coaching and inspired me to eventually pursue that as a path myself.

Mentor Advice Versus Coaching Insight

Max Lowery

Amazing. Shout out to her. So what what was the difference between that kind of the coach and the mentor? So the mentor was within the organization and the coach was external uh to the organization. Like, yeah, what what was the difference?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So interestingly, the coach was also employed by the company. Um, it was just kind of a corporate benefit they offered as you were leaving, if you were a high performer. And um, what what I really realized was that the mentor, I had great mentors, and there were several of them. Um, and they were advising me as if they were advising themselves. And that is no fault of their own. Um, we are in general psychologically viewing the world through of, of course, our own lens. And it's quite hard actually for most people to step outside of themselves and and realize that there are other ways to view the world and experience the world from our from our own experience of it. Um, so my mentors were giving me kind of the advice that they would be taking themselves, right? That made sense to them. And because they were all inside of this consulting firm and I had already decided to leave the consulting firm, there was like inherently a mismatch between what they were valuing and what I was valuing. I was saying, I don't want this firm. Like, kind of these accolades are not going to be the thing that drive me and inform this decision. Um and so they they were trying to put themselves in my shoes, but it was still like very accolade-focused. It was like, okay, what is the best, in their perspective, the best outcome for you post-consulting? And there were these brands and opportunities in different organizations that would have um externally been really kind of like flashy and recognizable. Um, whereas with my coach, you know, my grandfather's business is a no-name cottage industry uh saw manufacturer, like a hand saw manufacturer. Um, but there was all this intrinsic value in it of me partnering with my grandfather, um, learning from an engineer and inventor in his like final stage of life and all of these um kind of intangibles that she helped me understand the value of that would not have registered for the other people that I was getting mentored by. So they didn't give me bad advice, but it was advice couched in their own worldview, which was not my worldview, where the coach was able to help me understand my worldview and then validate it and then make a decision based on that.

Max Lowery

Powerful. So, in some ways, you were making decisions more in line with your values rather than you know, the corporate uh hustle and goals and the ladder, etc.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And my values at the time, and our values to a degree, our priorities and our values might shift over time. And she was able to show me what was really most important to me at that phase of my life. Um, and that was incredibly helpful and the right thing for me.

Max Lowery

So you said um you've used the words kind of high achiever mentality. I would love for you to, and you kind of briefly mentioned who you work with. Could you really get a bit more specific with um the type of person that you work with, what they struggle with, why they come to you specifically, like and what what state they're in when they do come to you?

The High Achiever Trap

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So most of the people I work with are accustomed to being the best in whatever context that they're in. And of course, most people start out in an academic context. And so from an early age, they probably have have done well academically. And then the next logical step is how do I get into the best college or university? From there, the quote unquote best or most competitive is also kind of the equivalent of the best employer and then best business school, et cetera. Um, so there are people who are accustomed to being really accomplished and really at the top of their field, um, whatever it might be. Um, many of them go into finance, tech, or consulting. Those are kind of the big three industries that I typically work with, um, just because those are kind of propped up as the most recognized fields for people to pursue post-undergrad, especially from really competitive undergrads. Um and usually they come to me when they've gotten to a point in their career where there isn't a next logical milestone for them to hit, because they've kind of hit every single one on that path, right? Best college, best postgrad job, best graduate program, best postgrad job. And then they get to a certain point, maybe two to five years after graduate school or maybe 10 years post-grad, where they're looking for that next milestone and they're realizing there is there is nothing that's defined for them that is the next thing to compete for and to achieve. And that can be a really disorienting place to be. And if they're dissatisfied with the work that they're doing and maybe they're feeling um the rub, so to speak, in their personal lives because they're working a lot or they're wanting to start a family and they're realizing this isn't this isn't compatible with that design and what they want to prioritize. Maybe their health is impacted. Um, I have people who come to me with burnout, um, you know, anxiety, inability to sleep, like other kind of symptoms like that. And they're just trying to make meaning of it. They're trying to understand, like, hey, like this is the path that I've always thought I would pursue. I'm really good at it. I'm probably making really good money. And uh, it's not working for me anymore. And I don't really have anything external to orient myself to. So I'm realizing I need some help. Like, I need someone to help me create a new framework by which I can make a decision about what to do with my career.

Max Lowery

Yeah, that must be very destabilizing for someone with that personality type of you know, spending your entire life chasing these um these goals and these objectives, and then suddenly there's they've reached that ceiling. Uh, and what next? And so this is kind of why we're talking, we're having this discussion ultimately, is like the title of the podcast is how to know when you've outgrown your life. Um, how can we go more into more detail? Like how what are the kind of symptoms and signs um of uh the type of client that you work with that she has outgrown her life and she does need to think about the things that you help your clients with?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, definitely.

Five Signs It Is Time To Pivot

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well, I usually actually point to five things specifically within career, um, in terms of how do you know when it's time that you need to make a pivot? The first, which I'm sure you'll speak to as well, is if your health is impacted, your physical or mental health is negatively impacted on an ongoing basis. Um, and you don't feel like you're able to really recover while maintaining that career path. So that's definitely number one. Number two is you never look forward to Monday. Like you never have a Monday that you're actually excited to get back to work. And it's okay, you know, work is work. I don't expect everyone to wake up every single morning jumping out of bed, stoked to go to work. Um, but if you never have that moment, then that's a sign that there's something off in that path. The third one is that your learning has plateaued. And that's really the most from just like a professional development perspective. It might not be that you're burned out, but if your learning's plateaued, that's never where you want to be intellectually or professionally. So if you're like, hey, I'm at not challenged, I'm not learning anything, that's a great sign to look for your next role. The fourth one is that you don't feel like yourself. Like you feel like you have to mask constantly in terms of being kind of performative in the community or environment that you're a part of. That's really exhausting. And if you're not already burned out by that, you will be soon. And then the final one is that you don't want the lives of the people ahead of you. And that's a really great one to even consider when you're thinking about taking a new job. Like look at your manager, look at the leaders of the company. Do you emulate them? If you were to get promoted, would you be excited about that? Do you want the work that they have? Do you want the lifestyle that they have? Do you want the stress or kind of mental health impact that they carry due to that work? And if the answer is no, again, if you're if you're not unmotivated now, you will very soon be unmotivated. And that's just going to lead to a spiral of feeling like you're not doing your best work, which leads to a poor self-concept and it's a bit of a snowball effect. So as soon as you notice any of these five things, it's a really good time to start thinking about like what else could I be doing? Because if you're not already negatively impacted by it, you will be soon.

Max Lowery

Yes, interesting. So that last one I actually resonate with because I worked in finance. I was a stockbroker for four years. It was kind of like my university uh from the age of 19 till 23. So just somehow I got kicked out of schools. Um, I fell into that job. They liked my personality. I was good at entertaining clients. It was fun. I was literally, you know, day one uh giving the company card and taking clients out to restaurants and nightclubs. But then towards the end of four years, at the age of 23, I was like looking at my colleagues, and you know, they're in their 30s and 40s doing a lot of cocaine, sleeping with hookers on a Wednesday uh lunchtime. And I was like, is this what I really want? You know, is this what I aspire to be like? And was one of many reasons, along with not being interested, dreading Monday, um my health for sure was being impacted because and I'd like to talk more about this, but I felt like I was using alcohol to and drugs to um numb the situation and uh distract myself from the fact that I wasn't happy. So yeah, that ultimately led me to quitting and traveling and uh ending up coach being a PT and coaching. So yeah, interesting to hear you say that. On the um the health side, you know, you mentioned um not being able to recover, getting ill quite a lot. Like I would love to hear your perspective of why you think that's happening in that situation for the for your clients.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

When Work Shows Up In Health

SPEAKER_01

I wish I had more of a background in like uh health sciences and medicine, um, so I could speak to it more specifically. But um my best understanding of why that's help or happening to people is because their immune system is probably suppressed for a variety of reasons. I mean, I know when I was working in management consulting, I was not sleeping enough. Um, you know, for years, I did not get eight hours of sleep in any night of the week. And over time, that exhaustion just suppresses your immune system. And so any kind of bug or anything that's in your environment, you're more susceptible to. Um and stress, I mean, is an inflammatory experience, right? So if you're prone to any sort of autoimmune disease, um, inflammation is going to increase the likelihood that that manifests. I know for me, at the end of my consulting career, I was experiencing jaundice. Um, so my arms and my hands were turning yellow, which um I did go and get tests for blood tests from the doctors, and they were unable to diagnose anything. Um, but all they could tell me was, hey, like jaundice happens when your body is overwhelmed with toxicity and your natural liver and kidney processing of toxins, they're unable to handle the toxic load. And so it's going to come out through your skin. And at the time I was a vegetarian, I was largely sober. Like I was like my lifestyle and I was running half marathons. You know, externally, I was the picture of health and all of my lifestyle habits, other than the stress and lack of sleep and constant travel. Um, but my body was still telling me there is some load happening here, whether it's again stress or even the fumes from traveling in cabs and airplanes every day, every week. Um, so I think it's just all those things in combination. Um, and it's hard to say, you know, specifically what's causing somebody's um illness. And I have spoken to lots of clients who've had, you know, weight gain, unexplainable rashes, um, insomnia, anxiety, panic attacks, you know, you name it, that people have experienced it and everyone might have a different sort of symptom. Um, but our bodies are not meant to withstand uh, you know, a high load of chronic stress uh over an extended period of time. We're not meant to withstand uh poor sleep quality, poor diet. Um I was working inside internal conference rooms with no windows for months at a time. Um, we're meant to be in the daylight. So, so it's kind of it, it almost feels like overly simplistic. Um, but it but if you just think about it practically, it it kind of makes sense that people end up with these chronic health issues when they're working in these conditions.

Nervous System And Weight Loss Link

Max Lowery

Yeah, no question. And I think ultimately this is why I brought you on the podcast, because I think there is overlap in how we help our clients, because um what I see with, and we do work with high-achieving women who you know are used to being the best and are achieving things. And what happens is they they come to us because they want to lose weight. And um what as we kind of start this process, they're initially thinking, right, I need the perfect meal plan, I need to track my calories, I need to do more workouts, I need to try harder. And as we start working with them, you know, asking the right questions, taking them through a process, we start to realize little by little that, yeah, their work situation is causing a lot of problems. And we have had clients, usually in our kind of longer-term programs, who do change their careers and completely change their lives as a consequence of realizing that what they're doing, um, it doesn't matter how much work you do in yourself, if you do have that toxic work environment and combined with the maybe toxic internal environment of being a perfectionist and not being able to set boundaries, um, can cause a lot of problems.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. And I guess I would just add, even from my knowledge of the nervous system, um, which just comes from some yoga teacher training and I did study some integrative nutrition and et cetera, um, like there's a sympathetic and parasympathetic, which I'm sure you speak to your clients about. Sympathetic is the stress response, parasympathetic is the relaxation response. And when you're in the sympathetic nervous system, some of the first things to stop working are like your digestion, like all of your internal functions stop because all of your senses are focused on fight or flight, like defense, like we're stressed, like where is the threat in our environment? And so if you're never transitioning into the parasympathetic, where again, rest and digest essentially is the other name for that, you're never going to be able to like, again, from a diet perspective, and you're the expert here, but no matter what you're eating, if your body doesn't have the opportunity to digest it and extract the nutrients from it, like it doesn't really, you're not going to give yourself the opportunity to have that benefit.

Max Lowery

No, absolutely not. You know, digestion, uh, blood sugar regulation, insulin resistance, gut, you know, gut health as well, uh, as well as a whole host of other things, fat storage, whether you're you know storing fat or mobilizing fat. Uh, yeah, we we talk a lot about um the nervous system and we very much see that as like the first step towards actually addressing the situation because um you know, I definitely what I've seen is that your state, i.e. i.e., your nervous system state, comes before your mindset, your beliefs, your the story that you tell it. It impacts those things. So we've got the fact that it impacts the physiological things we've described, but it also impacts your decision making, um, what you believe about yourself and the world in that situation, how you react to certain situations. Uh so yeah, it um it makes perfect sense that uh being dysregulated over a long period of time is going to cause problems in lots of different ways.

Insight Versus Action

Max Lowery

What like do you think it's difficult for the personality type that you work with to come to terms with the fact that what they're doing might not be beneficial uh for them? Um do you think that's difficult for them to come to the realization?

SPEAKER_01

I would say it's actually not intellectually hard for them to come to that conclusion because they're really intelligent people. And so when they're presented with the evidence, I think they are able to say, yeah, I don't think this is good for me. But that's one thing. Actually being able to make the change and potentially leave that path or take a path that isn't going to be as externally validated is a lot harder. Um, and I would explain why that's harder for them based on these adult development psychology principles around how our identity is so largely formed by our social group. And we all want to be part of an in-group, and that really goes back to our primary drive, which is survival. And we historically have survived because we've been part of a community where resources are shared. We don't want to be the black sheep. We don't want to be the one who's outside the circle. And when you've been socialized into one identity, one peer group forever, potentially, the thought of leaving that really feels on some subconscious level like a threat to your survival. And so all of your instincts are going to light up, encouraging you to not do that, which is why any kind of change is typically pretty hard for a human, especially if it requires a shift in identity and a shift in community. So to answer your question, I don't think it's hard for people to see the connection of, hey, this work is actually negatively impacting my health or my relationships or whatever it might be. But then getting them to make the change or getting themselves to make the change and actually opt out or opt into something different is where there can be the resistance or the delay or kind of the procrastination on the things that they know that they would need to do in order to actually embody that kind of knowledge in their lives.

Max Lowery

Yeah, it's kind of in some ways the gap between insight and action. So you might have the insight that

Why Change Feels Unsafe

Max Lowery

I need to, I need I can't keep doing this, but then actually taking action on it is very difficult for all the reasons that you've just described. And actually that's if I remember correctly, the reason we even met is because I was scrolling and a reel popped up, and you were talking about this exactly. You were talking about your reference group and how that has a huge impact on your on your behavior, on your identity, on on what's socially acceptable for you. And I shared it because it's exactly the same. You know, we talk about this with our clients, and that's uh that's how we ended up doing this podcast. And you said something that I would love for you to expand on, uh, because this is something I see um a lot with clients, is that with your kind of background, I would love to hear your perspective of why is change so hard?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I again it goes back to the survival instinct. We have learned that we have made it this far in our lives based on what we've done historically. Whether it was easy or hard, it doesn't matter. What we've done has been familiar and has quote unquote worked because we've made it this far. And again, our primary drive is survival. This is this explains why people stay stuck in all sorts of suboptimal environments, um, whether it's work, personal, um, because we see that as having worked for us. Again, whether it's hurt us along the way or not is kind of irrelevant. Our kind of reptilian brain is very basic in how it views the world and how it understands what is what is good and what is bad. What is good is what has worked. What has worked is everything we've done historically, and that's very familiar. So that's kind of coded as right and good, and we can continue doing that and we'll be okay. Anything that's different from that has the potential to not work, has the potential for us to have a worse experience, or again, reptilian brain, worst case scenario to not survive. And it is wild how much fear and resistance we can experience in our kind of modern day environment where we could even say objectively, like, hey, I could leave this job, like I have these savings, like I have this family that would support me, like my spouse is okay with it, but I still, it's like so hard for me to conceive of quitting this job because that's maybe I work at Google, maybe I work at BCG, maybe I work wherever. And it's just so hard because I feel like, what if this is a mistake? What if I am never able to be the person that I have been to this point? Like we've tied so much, and again with my people, so much of our identity to our work. Like that is the thing that's so familiar, that's worked for us, that has kept our social relationships or familial relationships. We've gotten love and acceptance and praise, et cetera, because of that. And it feels like if we lose that, we don't know if we don't know what's going to happen. And we could be theoretically threatened with not surviving and losing everything that we built to this point. And we just don't want to take that risk because we don't know.

Max Lowery

Yeah, I'm fascinated by this because I see this personally. And it seems to me, you know, through my experience having, you know, thousands of conversations with with women who are struggling with their weight, that the pain that they're in, and they're in quite a lot of pain sometimes, like being overweight and struggling is really impacting their lives, is more is safer to the nervous system and the brain and the identity than unknown change, even if the change leads to positive outcomes. So it's like the unknown discomfort is is safer than the unknown change, which might lead to you know changing your life. And it's yeah, it's it's like uh I find I find it very interesting. And I would love to again hear your perspective on how can someone work through that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So I'll bring up this concept called immunity to change, which, if anybody feels like researching further, it's something this Harvard

Immunity To Change And Safe Tests

SPEAKER_01

psychologist Bob Keegan has developed. Um, his theory is called constructive developmental theory. I went to the Harvard Graduate School of Education in order to study this body of knowledge and research. Um, but I bring it up because it essentially I love the word immunity, like immunity to change. And just to use that as the visual of like, we all have an immune system that's fighting off, like our actual immune system is fighting off bugs. Um, our immunity to change, our psychological immunity is fighting off anything that's different from what we've done historically. And it's just going to repel it automatically. And in order to overturn somebody's immunity to change, because we don't, we don't need an immunity to change. Like change is good. Um, but again, subconsciously, we're wired against it.

Max Lowery

Um change is inevitable as well. Sorry to interrupt, but like change is inevitable, right? Change is happening whether we like it or not.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. Right. And so if we can find a way to not resist it, and especially if it's change that we want and have intellectually decided we want, it would be a beautiful thing if our body would not resist it in the way that it does. And so everyone has a different immunity. And and what I work with people to uncover is what is their big assumption? If I do this, then this will happen, and usually a negative connotation. Like it's the big assumption that's keeping them from making the change. And for your clients, it might be, you know, if I take on this new lifestyle or if I take on this new belief, then like what is the fear or worry? Like what actually, like then I'm going to lose my friendships, then I'm not going to get paid as well, then I'm not going to be able to take my holiday to wherever. I don't know what the fears or worries are. But we need to come up with for every individual what is the big assumption or big assumptions so that we can go into the world and test it. So our brains are constantly scanning our environment for data to prove our beliefs. Thankfully, we do have our conscious mind, it's not just our subconscious working all the time. And so if we can give our conscious mind a new belief that we're trying to scan for or even test for, then we give ourselves a better chance of actually finding that data, informing our brain, helping to overturn our immunity to change. So if you can understand what is your big assumption working, again, whoever's listening to this in whatever context, in a career change, in a lifestyle change, in a relationship change, what is that fear or worry? If I do this, then this will happen. And how can you design a test to go out into the world? And I like to encourage people to design safe tests initially, where it's like, um, you know, if I'm worried, uh let's say it's a personal habit. If I'm worried I tell my truth or set a boundary, then um my friends won't want to be my friends anymore. And just something coming to mind. Um, who is a very safe friend that I could try setting a boundary with to see how do they react? I'm thinking of my friend Shelly. Okay, I try setting a boundary with her the next day. I'd be like, hey, Shelly, I set that boundary with you yesterday. What did you experience in that moment? She'd probably be like, uh, nothing. I didn't even notice, and or I was inspired, you know, inspired me to maybe set a boundary in a different way. And that little thing is going to give my brain a piece of data that's going to inform it the next time I go to set a boundary with a friend of like, oh, well, I did it with Shelly and it was actually fine, and or good. Let me do this again. So that's the way that we overturn those immunities to change is by understanding them on a pretty personal level, on a nuanced level, so that we can go into the world and run tests that are hypers hyper-specific to our own fears and worries. So we can slowly overturn them. And over time, we actually can get to an unconsciously liberated space where we're no longer actually that fear and worry has been neutralized, which takes time. It's not overnight at all, but it it can happen.

Max Lowery

Yeah, I love that. And you use the example of kind of boundary setting there, and that is a huge problem for a lot of our clients, and it's the type of thing that will ultimately stop them from getting to where they want to be. And we use yeah, similar kind of concepts, like awareness is that first step. Like, what why are you um uh feeling unsafe? Why, why do you not want to get set the boundary? What do you think is going to happen? And as you say, just taking those tiny steps and then helping your nervous system and your brain realize that, oh, actually it's safe, building evidence that actually there's no no no bad, terrible bad things happen um if I set this boundary. And in fact, not only that, not only does nothing bad happen, actually, good things happen because you're actually getting the results, you're not having the extra drink, you're not having you know the ice cream or whatever it is. Um so yeah, that there's definitely uh a lot of crossover between and like this is I I have difficulties explaining to my audience or or trying to get my audience to see what they actually need, because obviously most of them are they think they need just a calorie work plan and macros and a meal plan and workouts, but really what they actually need is to work on everything that we're talking about on this on this conversation. Would you say that you have um difficulties with that too? Do you think maybe clients might come to you thinking one thing and then that maybe it's taken in a direction they're not expecting, but also maybe it becomes very rewarding?

SPEAKER_01

I do. I do. I feel like I'm kind of like the yoga studio who markets the six-pack, but then they come in and they have some enlightenment moments where you know someone comes to me because they want to do work that's more in alignment with their strengths and values and feel more fulfilled on a daily basis in their careers, which is going to happen. And also they might do the work with me and say, hey, I'm actually more okay with what I've been doing because now I can set boundaries in this work context. And it's not as bad as when I was working with my entire identity attached to this career and the promotion and that like led into a really toxic work cycle. Sometimes that happens. People think they need a pivot and they end up not needing a pivot. Um, sometimes people come to me and they change careers, but they also change how they relate to their spouse, and they realize that they're much more connected after we're done working together because they have so much more inner peace and more regulation and they can communicate in a different way. Um, there is so much that can happen when you do the work that you're doing with your clients, the work that I'm doing with my clients, when it really is about awareness of beliefs and how that's driving your behavior. And if you have that self-awareness, you can choose. It all comes back to autonomy, I would argue in my work. Like, are you an autonomous actor in your life? Or are you being driven by fears and worries and assumptions about what other people want from you and think about you? Um, so I think that autonomy leads to a lot of freedom across every every aspect of your life. And when you have that, it just feels less like you're a victim of your circumstance and more like, hey, I'm in the driver's seat and I can take ownership for whatever is happening in my environment. And that I think is where the real empowerment comes from. Like if I don't like this, I can change it. And if I don't like it, but I'm still willing to accept it, it's my choice. Nobody's making me do it. And I think that from the victim to the to the player kind of shift um ultimately liberates a lot of people. And then what they choose to do with it um is up to them. But but kind of like that, what they choose to do with it is a little bit less important than that initial shift.

Max Lowery

Yeah, I think it's exactly the same uh with what we do. And actually twice this, just twice this week I've uh recorded separate uh podcasts with some of our clients. And they've said, you need to change the name of this. This is like, you know, this is not just weight loss, this is just so much more than that. Um so yeah, you you kind of mentioned limiting beliefs. Like, what would you say? Because I think what I want to

Limiting Beliefs High Achievers Repeat

Max Lowery

the reason I asked this next question is because I think the issue with limiting beliefs is they're unconscious a lot of the time, right? You don't so you our listeners might read something about limiting beliefs. You know, you need like you could you're held back by limiting beliefs, but they have no idea what their limiting beliefs are because it's very difficult to look at something objectively when it's been there for so long. Um, I would love for you to share like what are the some kind of the typical stories uh the women that you work with, the clients that you work with tell themselves? Are there any kind of commonalities like a few that come up all the time?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, sure. Yeah, I think the first thing that comes to mind is that they need to know exactly what they're going to do next before they can make a change. That's super, super common. Like if I don't know that this is the right answer, then I better stay put and do more research until I can say for sure it is. That's the number one thing that holds my clients back, honestly, is overthinking and over-researching.

Max Lowery

So perfectionism as well.

SPEAKER_01

It's perfectionism. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's how it manifests. And I and I empathize for them because historically they've done things that they have kind of been able to say, like, oh, this is quote unquote objectively the quote unquote right thing to do. Like this is the best school, this is the best company. Like they've always been able to do that. And again, this is the first time where their paths have just multiplied, where there's a lot of different directions that they could go. And there isn't going to be one that is the best. Like this might be the first time where they can't rank order their options. And instead, it's truly their own inner barometer that's going to tell them if this is the right path or not. And the reality is that wherever you go, there you are to a degree. So it's going to be up to you to make that path the right path. And that's just a difficult switch to flip of being willing to experiment. And so I really encourage people to view it that way as an experiment. I use a lot of design thinking principles around prototyping, actually, like product prototyping in the context of career and life design. How do you outline, hey, here are three pathways. What are the assumptions you're making? How are you going to going to go and prototype them in the real world so that you can de-risk them to the best of your ability? And then you're going to go out and actually take an opportunity, and that's going to be an experiment as well. So there's much less of a final answer and much more of an experiment mindset in how I work with people to get through that perfectionist tendency. So yeah, I need to know that it's the right answer before I make a move. You actually won't know it's the right answer until you've made a move. Um, so that's uh a big one. Um, I think the other biggest uh limiting belief is that, you know, people love me because of the work I do. Um and that if I change my career, my relationships will be affected, affected, and that I might um lose a lot of the community that I have if I make this change. And again, usually that just comes up because they've always had this kind of career. And so they correlate that with the relationships that they have. Like, hey, I've had this career, so how do I know if that's the reason that these people have wanted to be my friends or be my partner or whatever it might be? And the reality is, is you might lose some of those relationships. But the reality is also some of those relationships are going to follow you and will follow you no matter what you do. Uh, but it's scary to not know which are going to stay and which are going to go. So there has to, again, be some internal regulation happening around, you know, you will be safe no matter what. But I think that's a big fear and worry for men and women. And I do uh work primarily with women now on career pivots, but I also work with men. And I think um this is a different topic. But for men in particular, kind of like if people don't see me as a provider or see me as kind of this more um accomplished identity, I think it actually becomes an even bigger fear or worry or limiting belief for men around like, will people still want to be with me? Will I still be able to provide for my family, et cetera?

Max Lowery

Yeah, and I definitely see I would definitely resonate with the first one of women who are potentially thinking of joining the program, they will, yeah, they'll they'll need to have all the information. They want to know every single thing before making a decision. It's like, you know, this is not an information problem, right? The information is there on Chat GPT or Claude, right? It's an implementation problem. And the only way that you're gonna um actually get it, take any uh any results is to take action. Um, and yeah, it's particularly prevalent for for perfectionists, and obviously the whole male thing is a whole different story. Um, so if someone is listening to this and is thinking, okay, this is this is me, I'm definitely at that stage. I'm resonating with what Julia is saying. Yeah, what should they do? What's the first step?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the first step for me, so I'm gonna reveal the very first step I uh use with every single one of my clients

Write Your Eulogy For Clarity

SPEAKER_01

that anyone can do right now uh is to write your own eulogy.

Max Lowery

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Max Lowery

That's powerful.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

unknown

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so love that. And and and and and the reason that I have people do that is because we are so, again, psychologically wired to think about the near term. We're highly motivated by like near-term um repercussions or reward. Um, but in the broader span of life, that's not really how we add up to the impact that we have or the experiences that we have. It happens on a much longer time horizon. And um, our mortality is also quite motivating and sobering and gives us a lot of perspective. So if you're able to, again, imagine you've lived a long life, write your eulogy, see what comes up, and let that inform how you think about your values, how you think about your decisions, and how you can evaluate what you're doing right now. And is that something that's leading to um the type of thing that you wrote about or not? And that's where I would start.

Max Lowery

That's very powerful. We do similar-ish things. We do it, um, we do something called the true self-doctrine. So they write a document in the future as if it's already happened. So it's more of a positive thing. It's like really starting to visualize the identity that they want to assume, and then what are the values of that identity? Um, but then we also do something called like the anti-vision document, which is like, what's the cost of not doing this? Um, what's the cost on your relationships, your health, uh, et cetera? But the eulogy thing is is um is very powerful. Like, how do what's that like for your clients going through that? What do they say about it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's typically really confronting. Um, just, I mean, most people don't think about the fact that we're going to die. And it is something that we don't really necessarily talk about as a society in kind of a holistic way, other than um, you know, at a funeral um where you're in a state of mourning. Um, so we don't really do it proactively. Um and I think the most common insight is that most people don't talk that much about their work in their eulogy. They talk about everything else. They talk about their experiences, they talk about their relationships, they talk about their personality traits and how they treated people and things that they contributed to. Um, and so at the end of the day, it actually is kind of in and of itself a very liberating document to say, okay, I think that my work is the be-all end all. I think my work is like, you know, 99.9% of what is uh kind of informing my sense of self today. And when I really zoom out, it's 0.01. And that alone can allow somebody to get a little bit more creative with how they're thinking about their work. They're like, what do I really need from my work? And I need it to enable all of these other things. Is my current work doing that for me today or not? And so I think that's the biggest insight is that work becomes much less central. And it just again gets a little bit more neutralized in terms of how people are identifying themselves and um the kind of pressure they're putting on themselves around their career and what it means to them.

Max Lowery

Yeah, I um I really like that idea of the eulogy, actually. Um I think I completely agree. It's it's what I've seen kind of anecdotally with the doing this for such a long time is people are very it's very difficult to think long term. It's very difficult to I think the the the issue with the clients I work with, some of the things they're struggling struggling with have become normalized. And they're not able to see how bad it actually is. And I think that the the going through an exercise like that is incredibly powerful because suddenly. And then you're kind of forced to look at your life objectively, as you say, zooming out, and it can be very confronting. And only then will that might that spark the initial motivation to actually do something about it. Only then, maybe will the fear of change or the pain of staying the same outweigh that fear of change, as Tony Robbins says.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. I would also add, you know, I I love giving practical tips. So if I may, the other thing I would add after the eulogy is

Zone Of Genius Over Hustle

SPEAKER_01

to really think about what you're best at, like from a career perspective. I want people to be working in their zone of genius. I want people to be working on things that allow them to use their strengths. And when you're using your strengths, you're going to be a lot happier and you're also going to be better at the job that you do. And for a lot of the clients that I work with, they have really normalized that work should be hard. Cause again, they've like wanted to be the best of the best. They've really had to push themselves. And in in, of course, like working hard is a strength, and that will help you to be the best of the best. But the thing that's actually going to make you the best of the best is to do something that requires what you are innately talented at. If you can combine that with a great work ethic, you will rise to the top of your field, rise to the top of your function, your company, et cetera. And a lot of people get a bit confused because they're like, oh, when things are hard, that's good. Like that is like what a higher achiever should be doing, is always doing things that are really hard for them. But even in saying that, you can hear that there's a lie there where you should actually do things that are easy for you and work really hard at them. So yes, you can still feel the effort, like still exert yourself if that's something that you want to do and is motivating to you. But don't choose something that is not like innately part of what you are best at. And so the other, the other mindset shift that I encourage my clients to go through is especially, you know, I work with people all over the world, but especially in the States, there's this idea of being well-rounded that's like really hammered into us of like be well-rounded, like be good at all the sports and music and all the subjects, et cetera. And that like gets you into a good college and beyond. But if you're trying to be well-rounded, you're going to be like pretty good at everything. You can't become the best of the best at something unless you really focus. And so once you've gotten far enough into your career where you're like, okay, like I've proven that I'm a good worker, I've proven that I've learned these kind of general skill sets, then really realize, oh, this is where I spike. Like I'm a salesperson. I'm really good at selling. Like, okay, put yourself into a role where you're selling, whether that's fundraising or partnerships or sales, or you're a founder and you're raising money, whatever it is. Or maybe I'm really good at relationship building. Okay, customer success. Again, partnerships could be something. You're working with clients. Like, what is it that uses those skills? So beyond the values and like getting out of our near-term mindset, then think, what am I best at? And am I using those strengths? And if not, what are roles that would use them? And stop forcing yourself into something that's hard just for the sake of it being hard. Because I think that's a belief that a lot of us have, we're like hard equals good and we have to break that.

Max Lowery

Yeah, that resonates a lot, actually. And um, I think if we think of it kind of logically as well, if the goal is to be the best at something, then ultimately you need to get more reps and more volume in than your competitors. But if you are focused on doing very hard things and not listening to your body and and and grinding and then you're not going to get the reps in. Ultimately, you're gonna burn out and and you won't be achieving things. And I to be honest, I see this with our weight loss clients as well. They are conditioned to, because of diet culture, that in order to lose weight, they have to restrict, they have to deprive, they have to go all in, they have to punish themselves. And so in the initial kind of four to six weeks of us working with them, it's actually very nerve-wracking for them because they're like, I need to do more, I need to do more. Like this, this isn't hard enough. This, like, I'm and they feel very anxious, and we have to do quite a lot to calm them down. Once they start to get some results, that's when they have that kind of aligned, um, you know, they're there's they're seeing the results and there's that penny drop moment, and they're like, ah, now I get it. But until they've had that, they are going in thinking they need to cut out carbs and and do very restrictive things. So interesting to hear you say that as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And I am curious about where that comes, even culturally. You know, why do we think we need to kind of suffer in order to be successful? Um, so I don't know, maybe a topic for another day, but it seems like that is kind of across the board. There is a bit of a belief that if it's not hard, it's not going to work.

Max Lowery

Yeah, it was like hustle culture, isn't it? I think a lot of it is, you know, exacerbated by social media for sure.

SPEAKER_01

Definitely. And and I actually would say even in the beginning, there will be sacrifices, but it's just choosing what you're prioritizing outside of work because you can't work 24-7. Like you, you have to sleep, you have to eat, you have to connect with people. And you might do that in a smaller proportion than other people around you. And so that might feel like you are restricting. But I would argue if what you're doing is harming your health, then you're doing it wrong. Um, especially in today's day and age with AI and the ability to outsource so much, like work smarter, not harder, I think is true, even when you are at the early stage of putting in a lot of effort and making some sacrifices, definitely. Um, but yeah, I don't think it needs to feel um like you're hurting yourself in order to be successful. That hasn't been my experience, and I've been 10 years in my business. Like there has never been a point in my business where I've felt like um I was hurting my health in the way that I was in consulting. Like it's far from it. So just to provide the the anti, I don't know, the opposite end of the spectrum of building a successful business myself over 10 years without feeling like I've had to uh suffer, so to speak.

Max Lowery

I certainly have suffered. I I did have a breakdown and burnout about three years ago, which was a combination of factors, but ultimately is it's been a good thing in the end because I've learned a lot about myself. Um, learnt understood about a lot about the the internal uh beliefs and um thinking patterns which ultimately led to that. Because from the outside, you could blame the fact that I was renovating a house, um, which we'd never done before, the fact running a small business, the fact that I was a death in the family. You could blame all those things, but in reality, actually it was my internal dialogue and my internal environment that caused the problem. Um, and that's ultimately why a lot of why I talk about what I do. So Julia, what's one thing that you would like listeners to take away from today?

SPEAKER_01

That's a hard question. I hope I hope I hope listeners take away a lot of things from today. Um but

Key Takeaways And Where To Find Julia

SPEAKER_01

if I could have them take one thing, I think it's that you're bigger than your work, like you're bigger than your career. And no matter what you're doing professionally, that doesn't affect your own self-worth. And um if you want to change your career and what you're doing right now is not sustainable, 100% it's possible for you to make a change and to feel better in your work. I don't want anyone to feel like they are stuck in what they're doing and this is the only way to be successful, the only way to earn an income, the only way to um to do life. Um, because I think that's the the hardest mindset that I encounter people in is where they think that this is the only option. And that again, back to the feeling of the victim, um, is a really hard place to be. So just know that you have autonomy um in your career and in your life. And I hope you take some of what we've spoken about today, Max and I, and apply it to yourself and give yourself some options and then go out and explore them.

Max Lowery

Yeah, I love that, Julia. And I think what I want people to remember from this is and the reason why I invited you on, Julia, is because I think if you're feeling stuck in your life, um, I think the process is the same no matter what it is. You have to address the internal, you have to address your values, you have to look at your identity, you have to look at your mindset, your limiting beliefs. Um, otherwise, any changes that you make are going to be surface level and you are always going to revert back to the struggles that you're dealing with. Um, so yeah, it's been great to chat to you, Julia. It's been an interesting conversation. Where can people get hold of you if they want to find out more about you?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, definitely. I'm at Julia Star Coaching on pretty much all platforms, Star with two Rs. And I run a group coaching program called Aligned Ambition for women going through career pivots in their 30s and 40s, which is a great place for people to plug in if they're resonating with what I shared.

Max Lowery

Excellent. Well, obviously, I'll link everything beneath the show notes. Um, so yeah, thank you so much, Julia.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, thank you, Max.