53: Getting Executive Buy-in On Partnerships - Josh Baumrind

Building a strong partnership program starts by getting buy-in from the C-suite. Today on the Howdy Partners podcast, Josh Baumrind joins Will Taylor and Tom Burgess to talk about how to do that. They dive into the common misconceptions about partnerships and the challenges faced when approaching executive teams. 

Josh focuses on the importance of data and root cause analysis. He encourages partner teams to think long-term and keep the customer top of mind. For Josh, partnerships are all about delivering predictable revenue and setting the flywheel in motion.

00:00 Intro
03:04 What do most executives get wrong about partnerships?
04:58 Partnerships need to help product designers go to market
07:14 What do partner pros get wrong?
07:53 Root cause analysis
08:50 What metrics should partners be tracking?
10:01 You've got to build a good partner foundation
11:17 The most important KPIs for partners
12:07 The importance of partner attach
12:43 Make sure to prepare your partnership data
13:41 Look at NPS scores
17:21 Stop thinking short-term
17:45 Get the flywheel in motion
18:11 Deliver mutual value to the customer
19:33 Predictable revenue stream 
21:09 Number one takeaway: track your metrics

Transcript

Tom Burgess: 0:06

Howdy partners. Welcome back to the Howdy Partners podcast, where we talk about everything, partnerships, we have awesome guests on. We riff back and forth and, and hopefully you guys get a tactical takeaway or a few tactical takeaways out of every episode. Got an awesome crew again today. Got Will Taylor, my esteemed colleague and co-host. How are you doing?

Will Taylor: 0:28

Howdy. I am, uh, sitting in all the FOMO because you got to go to the near bound at night event during inbound, and I wasn't even there and it was our event. So, um,

Tom Burgess: 0:38

I, I'm sure you've heard on the last episode, I, I put you on blast for not meeting up with me in Denver because it's literally my backyard. And then just to find out you weren't an inbound. It's like it's, I feel like we're living our own catfish environment. Like I can see you, we've worked together, but I've never met you in person. At some point we will. The nearby event was awesome at Putcha. My, my four year old son loves mini golf and he was like bawling his eyes out when I told him I was going to this, but we'll see how I finished. I'm still kind of waiting to see if I get that prize in the mail, but anyway, inbound was awesome. Had a good time. It was good to catch up with the folks. On your end. Well, bun, we missed you, but that's enough on that side. We've got an awesome guest on the episode today. Josh, welcome to the podcast and, and just kind of tout the topic here. We're gonna talk about how to convince the C-suite and execs that partnerships are necessary for winning in business. So we brought Josh on because I feel like he's a really good guest to talk about the topic. Welcome, Josh.

Josh Baumrind: 1:37

Thanks. Howdy, guys. Good to be here.

Tom Burgess: 1:40

Yeah. And so Josh, let's kind of dig right in. We'll first get into, um, who are you, where have you been? Uh, just kinda give a quick intro and background of yourself.

Josh Baumrind: 1:48

Sure, sure. Hey everybody. Josh Baumrind. Uh, I think of myself as a career partner guy. Uh, been in partner world since 2003. Always knew I was gonna land here. Uh, and, uh, Really glad to be here. Um, it's been a journey. Uh, I've been working in SaaS startups the entire time, and as it goes with SaaS startups, there's lots of ups and downs, lot of wins. Um, so not so much. Um, and I'm happy to share my information, lessons learned with you guys and the rest of the partner pros out there.

Tom Burgess: 2:22

Yeah, that's sound like an OG in the space is. Quite the journey and, and I love how you like, it just came to my mind that like the journey partnerships is a journey. It's not like this flat line, so it's kinda like, reminds me of the Oregon trail a little bit. But anyway. We'll, we'll dig right in. And actually we're gonna, we're gonna start with kind of flipping, flipping the script here. Typically, like we start off on a positive note, like why, why is buy, like how does buy-in win? But in this case, I wanna ask you what in your mind, where do you think most executives. What do they get wrong about partnerships? Like, you know, you're, you're, you're venturing into conversations and they, they have opinions, everyone does. But what is the, what are those things where you see them getting wrong about partnerships and why it could be successful?

Josh Baumrind: 3:05

Yeah. Well, uh, first let me validate your thesis. Getting, um, get going to markets Partners does win. Um, and there's all kinds of great examples out there. I mean, from, um, you look at the companies that one defined as. Um, got acquired for an exceptional exit or went public. And the, it's the who's who of the software companies that we know and we're talking about, um, Salesforce. Uh, apple and their app exchange, HubSpot and the way that they go to partners, uh, go to market with partners with all their apps and agency partners, Microsoft and their attach rate through, through channel Google a w s and even in commerce, companies like Magento, Demandware, Shopify, I mean, it is the who's who. The companies that missed this opportunity and did not go to market with partners. Kinda hard to name them because they're all gone now. So it is absolutely the right way to go. But let's not, let's not, um, sugarcoat this and say it's not because they went to market with partners, it's because they also had product market fit. And also then figured out how to go to market with partners and that's what won their category. So

Tom Burgess: 4:19

Uh, yeah.

Josh Baumrind: 4:19

your question,

Tom Burgess: 4:20

Yeah, that, and it's so it once again, it's very glaring that as we kinda look in the space, it's not hard to see organizations or products that you we use in every day and how that tethers back. So like talking about the issues or I guess based on your experience when you've approached an executive team, whether they Have some sort of partner buy-in or maybe you're approaching them net new. Where do you feel like you see that friction? Like what are those core points that when we talk about, Hey, partnerships can win for this organization, and then an exec's like, well wait. What are those wait points?

Josh Baumrind: 5:00

That's a great question. And I think some of the challenges, they stem back to the root cause analysis and the root cause analysis of these, these things that I have experienced and seen and also validated through. One of the private equity firms that I worked for was that, um, startups are created by Product people or engineers who saw a gap in the market and said, I can build that product. And they went out and did it. Um, and they found some product market fit, some level of success, but at some point comes that, uh, ultimate challenge of, you know, do they know how to go to market? And then do they know how to go to market with, uh, partners? And let's also be fair, I'm not throwing shade on CEOs that are come from this product environment.'cause the other challenge that is associated with this is just the, the partner strategy and motions are also immature. You know, we as an, as a category of professionals are still figuring this out. And it is not straightforward. It ver varies based on the company, the way that they go to market, the resources at their disposal. So there are many factors going here in, but combining these two issues of product or an engineer person does not know how to go to market with partners, partner categories, and in mature motion that leads to the challenges.

Tom Burgess: 6:27

For sure. Um, and it, it's, I'd like to add to that. I feel like there's a sense of urgency and, and once again, um, you know, to kind of touch on what you said Josh, like this, we're not trying to pinpoint any, you know, exec or C-suite in specific here, but like, My, in my experience, like the, the time to show success can be a huge sticking point. Like you might get that initial buy-in, but I think it's really important in that buy-in phase to explain, like, listen, yes, of course we're gonna be trying to attract the, the low hanging fruit and going after the short term wins, but this is going to be the long game. This has to be built on the long game, and we need your patients and your buy-in to help us kind of get there. So I, I just wanna call that out.

Josh Baumrind: 7:11

A hundred percent.

Will Taylor: 7:13

So,

Tom Burgess: 7:13

Yeah, go ahead, will.

Will Taylor: 7:15

I'm, I'm curious then, like, so that's where most executives, you know, have that mismatch. What are the partner pros getting wrong when they enter into this organization? You know, maybe there's this hope that, uh, partnerships is going to take the company somewhere, which I know is, you know, often the case in a lot of organizations. Um, and, you know, maybe there's even some belief, there's even some like, Uh, exposure to the things that actually work. So I'm a CRO, I'm like, yep, partnerships is the way to go. Let's hire our partnerships executive. What are partner pros getting wrong when continuing to build that buy-in? Uh, what's your take?

Josh Baumrind: 7:54

Yeah. I think the, the, again, root cause analysis of this is that when they walk in the door and they have that conversation with their C-level executive, um, the definition of goals. For that program and also the level of commitment from that C level. And then, um, if you get the right answers, what type of partner motion is this? Is this a we're going all in with partners and we're gonna bed partnerships and every department within our category, which is the, the way to win? Or are we looking at this as just another Revenue channel or a growth hack of just go find me some revenue. Having that conversation as you walk in the door and understanding what that goal is for your program is paramount importance because that sets you up for the right path and how to allocate resources and build your strategy.

Will Taylor: 8:51

It'll also inform you on like what metrics should you be caring about? What, what should you be tracking? What should you be, you know, putting activities towards. And so let's say like is one or the other, actually, I. Better or worse. I, I mean, I'm a bit biased, but I would say like, um, both are plausible, at least from a like initial standpoint. Like you could do, get ingrained into the entire organization or you could also focus on let's bring in revenue as quickly as possible. Maybe we focus on one channel, but what's your take? Is there, you know, a pro, pro or a con to both the, the, the sides of, you know, the perception of how The C E O or c o is thinking about partnerships. What's your take?

Josh Baumrind: 9:34

Yeah, so different strategies would apply depending on how you're going, but I think the, the large channel challenge is if you're going after the play that is just go find me some revenue. We as partner professionals because we are incredibly optimistic and uh, and don't like to quit on anything. We think that we can convince the company that we're gonna deliver a little bit of revenue, they're gonna see the light, and that we're gonna make it a holistic strategy.

Tom Burgess: 10:02

Yeah, and it, it, so it reminds me of the conversation will that we had with Patty, where, you know, like to me, if, if, if, if A C R O stood up and was like, yeah, just bring us some revenue, my immediate reaction would be, okay, let me see if I can open up, open up an affiliate stream and just have like, Hopefully some passive income, but then it, it, it really like, to me, building the foundation of successful partnerships is you've got to look, you have to create the blueprint before you build because if you just start building, how much are you gonna have to tear down in a month or a year or two years without really focusing on what's, what matters most to not only the executives, but those other teams where like, if you start to just blast open the doors and be like, partnerships is here. They're gonna be like, Like, what does that mean to us? So, so tying that into, I get, like, this is actually a, a pretty good segue into this question, which is regardless of, you know, the, the. Regardless of the company, the product, um, you know, the channels or like most successful channels, what do, what do you think, like the top two or three things that someone that has this coming up is, how do you, how would you recommend they prepare? Like, what are the most important keys that they need to think about in terms of, okay, if I'm gonna get buy-in, I need to hit X, Y, and Z? What is, what is that to you?

Josh Baumrind: 11:29

Yeah, so I think you're heading towards KPIs and when we start to think about what those are, what are the most important metrics? Um, and I, it will, it will differ depending on, uh, which strategy we're going down the path of. But some of the KPIs that I like to track, um, is of course it's revenue. Right. But I like to think of it in a broader term rather than just sourced revenue. I also like to think of it as, let's, let's take sourced plus influenced revenue. So a, a, an opportunity that closed or a partner with material and helping us close that opportunity. And by the way, there are many ways to do that.

Tom Burgess: 12:07

Mm-hmm.

Josh Baumrind: 12:08

Um, but what I think those two add up to is the overall, uh, percentage of deals that close that have partner Um, helping us close those deals. And that to me tells us how healthy our partner ecosystem is. And it's an overall, just a percentage of, of number of deals closed, where a partner was involved. And when you see that number growing over time, that tells you that your partner ecosystem is healthy, more engaged, helping you move the needle and then win your category.

Will Taylor: 12:44

So it sounds like, um, definitely track the metrics that are most important to the program that you are running, but also effectively show the performance. Um, that's When we asked you just now the number one thing to prepare, it's the data. Make sure you have understanding of the impact, where it's headed, what the trend is, uh, because that's how you're going to get resources. And so, um, let's say I, I have been doing that or been kind of doing it. Where do you think. There are blind spots for people who are, you know, trying their best to get a program up and running. Maybe they have at least, you know, sourced revenue being tracked, but they probably should be tracking more things. What are some of those metrics that you would say they should focus on more than just this much revenue came from these partners? What are those additional data points that would be compelling enough to then bring to an exec table?

Josh Baumrind: 13:41

Yeah. So the next thing to track is how effective are we, and when we think about effective and efficient, start to look at N P S scores. So I like to do n P S scores on both, uh, the customer satisfaction from those mutual customers with the partner and then the partner satisfaction. Both of those will tell you they'll support that whole, uh, data point that I was going after of the health of the ecosystem, but also illuminate where are the areas and issues that you need to start looking at in an effort to adjust, modify, fix, improve.

Tom Burgess: 14:19

Yeah, and it, it's, um, I keep getting, coming back to this idea that you talked about before where it's like, Going to the main KPIs of source revenue, but, or just influence revenue. I also wanna get your opinion on, you know, if you're, let's say you're coming into, you're bringing like a net new program to the table. So you might loosely have some partners in your organization, but like there's no formality around it. I would love to get your opinion on, like is it more important to you to inri to try it and ingrain your partners in kind of like that assist model where like they understand and they build this, they build this relationship with the sales team or you know, cx, whoever it may be, but they're starting to understand how your company sells and works. Because to me, the hardest thing that I've seen is like you just come in like we're gonna provide. Referral revenue, straight referral revenue that our sales team will close. The problem is as you mature, You really, you don't necessarily cut out the opportunity to be pr uh, partner, partner led everywhere, or partner assist everywhere, but, but you kind of do, because it's really hard, in my opinion, to come back and then start to train your sales team or train your partners like, Hey, we've got stuck deals all over the place. How can a partner come in and help unlock them? So I just wanna get your kind of like the A or B there on, on, on what you think.

Josh Baumrind: 15:43

Yeah. Uh, so I always think that the fastest way to a strong partnership is with mutual clients and their success. So as I try to think through operationally operationalizing a partnership, I think about how can we go out and find where we have those mutual customers and their success. And, um, as we do that, there's always hidden partners out there. So, you know, in the old dark days, we used to try to do this with spreadsheets and, and Salesforce, and asking our peers in sales and customer success to go find out who the partners were. Nowadays we've got software tools out there at our disposal like Reveal and Crossbeam will help us find those mutual overlapping customers and they're phenomenal for, for people like us. So that's always a great starting point to try to find those hidden gems out there and find those mutual customers and their success.

Will Taylor: 16:38

Really like your focus on, um, how it's all around, all about the customer. You know, uh, there are some who are maybe chasing metrics just to chase metrics. We got this many leads from these partners. Um, but it ultimately may not result in the longevity that partnerships can bring, which is ultimate value for the client. And so, uh, what would you say is the hard truth Of what matters for partner programs that maybe some partner pros are too hype about, uh, that they maybe focus on invest time in and it may not actually be as valuable for businesses. Um, what's your take on like that hard truth that partner pros should probably stop?

Josh Baumrind: 17:21

Yeah, great question. The hard truth is that a lot of partner people as they're coming in, they're still thinking short term. And partnerships is a long-term strategy that we need to embed into the organization. So looking at metrics that are just sourced revenue in a short period of time, um, is while it may feel good in the short term and the long term, it's not the right metric. You have to start looking toward how do we get that customer to be mutually successful, and how do we get our partner to be mutually successful and happy, such that we can create a flywheel between our organizations to deliver more value together. Uh, one of the things that I always build to support the partner program and that flywheel that we're describing is a business plan that we craft together with the partner. I call it the joint business plan. And it clearly articulates what each one of us does, our joint value proposition better together story, if you will. And we always start off with aligning around the mutual customer what is the value to the mutual customer. And as we do that and we put together a differentiated, uh, value prop, that's what starts to drive the flywheel. It keeps going from there, and that allows us to both deliver that ongoing long-term mutual success, track it and keep that partnership itself healthy and aligned.

Will Taylor: 18:51

Nice. So that, uh, then makes me think of like, okay, so I'm tracking source revenue, but also customer health and partner health. I have an understanding of the ecosystem health and how that's going to help us be positioned for the future. And it's coming around, you know, the six to eight month mark, maybe a, a bit longer. Uh, and I'm now presenting to the, the board or the execs to say, I need more resources. I. What should I prepare? What would you say they should do from a, like, okay, they got the information, they have the even the business plans ready with these partners. Um, what should they do next to then start, you know, getting that buy-in from or further getting that buy-in from the board.

Josh Baumrind: 19:34

Yeah, so I go back to that business plan, and the business plan should clearly articulate what is our total addressable market and our time to value. And that's one of the big thing that's missing from our category is the predictability of a revenue stream. That's what you can use to make this business case to your C-level, to the board, um, is that they can see the, that value that is coming and they can allocate resources accordingly. Now, of course, important pieces of this is you have to deliver against that, and that's where the title alignment with the partner comes into play and where C-level involvement in partner QBR becomes incredibly important. You need to have that C-level, have that confidence in that partnership that we are gonna deliver the value, and then it's easier for them to make that additional follow on investment in the success I.

Tom Burgess: 20:22

Yeah, I, I, I always think back to like the tam and, and like, I guess coming from channel partnerships, it's a little harder to kind of visualize that because, you know, customers come and go from, from different agencies or, or service providers, but I think it's worth like, making that a huge note. It's like understanding the architecture of our program. How much revenue can we actually obtain here? Or how, how much revenue can we address? So that, that's a really good point. Um, Josh, this has been great. So as we wrap up here, I want, I want to try and culminate this down into one takeaway for the audience, right? So, We're talking about how to get buy-in from the C-suite level in partnerships. What do you think the most important thing, whether it's on a daily basis or just weekly, or someone who's preparing to do exactly what we're talking about, what's that one takeaway you can give the audience from today? I.

Josh Baumrind: 21:10

You have to track your numbers. You have to know them by heart, and you have to be able to report on them, uh, early and often. And it's all about transparency. Report your successes, but also admit when things don't go the way that they should have and have a plan for how to recover.

Tom Burgess: 21:27

Love it. Yep. Be able to pivot. Will anything to add as we close out?

Will Taylor: 21:32

No, that's, uh, that's actually Been on my mind a lot as well is data, data, data. So, uh, we'll leave it there.

Tom Burgess: 21:38

Very good. Well, thank you Josh so much and thank you for listening. Audience, we'll catch you on another episode of Howdy Partner Soon.