Don't Forget Your Tickets
Don' Forget Your Tickets is a podcast devoted to the unsung heroes of the spectator sports and events industries, the Ticketing Managers. We explore who they are, their well-guarded industry secrets, and how they entered the field. Beyond that, we delve into a broader ticketing realm, inviting experts from various fields to share their insights and stories. Our primary aim is to add value and highlight deserving individuals.
(The podcast was originally named TicketingPodcast.com)
Don't Forget Your Tickets
Daniel Gianmarco Krizan (interviewed by Preyan De Silva) on Facial Recognition Ticketing - A Live Special from Emirates Stadium in London
Unlock the Future of Sports Ticketing—With Just a Smile!
Join us for a fascinating conversation with Daniel Gianmarco Krizan of TruCrowd and Preyan De Silva from Wimbledon – The All England Lawn Tennis Club, recorded live at the Don’t Forget Your Tickets conference at Emirates Stadium in January 2025.
Imagine walking into a stadium without the hassle of physical or digital tickets. In this episode, Daniel explains how facial recognition ticketing is transforming fan entry—offering seamless access, tackling ticket scalping, and enhancing stadium security. Plus, with biometric data stored as secure, irreversible mathematical representations, privacy remains a top priority.
But the impact goes beyond convenience. We explore the financial cost of ticket fraud in the UK and how this cutting-edge technology opens new revenue streams for clubs. Daniel shares how clubs can introduce facial recognition step by step—starting with VIPs and premium experiences—to build trust and fan acceptance.
We also dive into the bigger picture: how this innovation could redefine the fan journey, integrating ticketing with stadium visits, restaurant reservations, and beyond.
This episode isn’t just about technology—it’s about revolutionising the way fans experience live sports. Don’t miss it!
This Live Special episode of Don't Forget Your Tickets was recorded at the Don't Forget Your Tickets conference at Emirates Stadium, January 23rd 2025, as the third out of 12 on-stage interviews that day. Daniel Gianmarco Krizan was interviewed by Preyan De Silva.
Don't Forget Your Tickets is powered by TicketCo and hosted by TicketCo’s CEO, Carl-Erik Michalsen Moberg. The podcast was originally named TicketingPodcast.com
Is facial recognition the future of football ticketing? Imagine entering a stadium with no need for a ticket or a phone, just a simple smile. Facial recognition technology is reshaping the fans' experience live sports, offering seamless entry, enhanced security and new ways for clubs to personalize fan engagement. And don't forget your tickets. At Emirates Stadium on January 23rd, daniel Gianmarco Crisan, co-founder and CEO of True Crowd, joined by Prehan De Silva, head of ticketing at Wimbledon, the All England Lawn Tennis Club, to explore the impact of face tickets and face payments in football. Can facial recognition ticketing be the solution to help clubs eliminate ticket scalping, streamline operations and unlock new commercial opportunities? Sit back and enjoy the discussion.
Speaker 2:Good afternoon all. Thank you for the introduction. I'm joined by Daniel Krujan from True Crowd. I've got my phone here with some notes and prompts, but this is really really fascinating stuff. Daniel and I have had just a couple of conversations, one of them just over there before we came on and we pretty much did the interview over there, so hopefully we can replicate some of that stuff. Anyway, enough from me over to you, daniel. Do you want to just give us a bit of a background about yourself?
Speaker 3:Sure, well, thank you for having me. I would basically start just to say that how did I get to biometrics in general and biometric ticketing? I used to work for a company called Innovatrix, which is a large biometric firm that sells their technology for different use cases I think Eric already mentioned one of them, which is the airports and we thought that there is a great value in bringing the technology also to the entertainment world, and that's how we started this whole journey of starting a company and actually helping different sport organizations around the globe great, I am here to ask some silly questions.
Speaker 2:What is it?
Speaker 3:so, in essence, biometrics it's a physical trait of yourself, which you can think of it as a badge. When you go and enter your workplace, you need to identify yourself with something, and in this case you are identifying yourself with yourself, so it's something that's unique to you. You cannot share it, you cannot easily lose it, have it forgotten, because you have it always on you and there is no copy of biometric trait in the world. And this is very, very strong because you can think of it as your face, as your palm, your fingerprint. There are different modalities of biometrics. For the sake of this session, I would stay with face, because it provides the best ratio between security and convenience for the needs of the industry.
Speaker 2:I know you did want to stay just on face, but if you were to capture, say, maybe face and some of the other modes, is that something that you could see happening in the future, just as a backup point in case the primary fails?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. There is already a spike in the use of different modalities, which is usually the palm print. But there we could now continue talking for quite a long time about the benefits of each of those modalities. Face, in this case, is good because it can be used for remote onboarding. A lot of times, with palm or fingerprint, you need to go to a physical place, you need to put your hand or your finger on the device and scan it, although there is already progress with remote technology to do that.
Speaker 2:but yeah, it is possible if needed, although face remains the best option for now thank you, sorry, I've already broken our agreement, so we'll move on to uh, let's put it into the context of ticketing then. So take us through the logic of it, how it works. Not the actual mechanics, but just the flow and the process Indeed.
Speaker 3:Well, if we link that to a context, it is essentially linking your face, in this case, to a ticket. So you don't need a physical token, a physical ticket in a form of a QR code, in a form of barcode, or a digital ticket in your phone. All you need is to simply walk into the venue. So if I want to break it down to how it works, it is basically you having a standard process where you buy a ticket and there you have just an extra step where you can do two different ways of it. You can have a full KYC, which is known mainly from the banking sector, which is taking a snapshot of your document from both sides and then taking a selfie, or you can have just the part with a selfie.
Speaker 3:I would right away address a few misconceptions or concerns that are related to this whole process.
Speaker 3:What is important is the maximization of security In this sense, we are actually not working with original face images. Security, in this sense we are actually not working with original face images. So those face images are converted outright into a mathematical representation of the face, which, in our case, is 696 characters, and these characters are irreversible to the original image, which is very important because if there is any issue with a data leak, any kind of a hack, basically that data is useless. Now, secondly, what is important, there is also no storing of the original image of the document, for example. So the data is extracted, for example, to validate the data of the person or to pick the information that are mandated by the contract between the club and the fan, but in the end, we don't store any of that information to maximize the privacy. So, to end it up, all you need, when you go to the game or to any kind of a conference like here, all you need to do is smile at the gates and you can just simply walk in without stopping, possibly.
Speaker 2:All part of the purchase journey or the joining journey. Buy the ticket and camera selfie.
Speaker 3:You can use your own device. It can be your laptop, can be a tablet, a phone, whichever device that has a sufficiently good camera, which today almost all do have, and you don't have to leave the ticketing site. So you can really do that from the process that is known today.
Speaker 2:Great, I don't know if we're jumping ahead. Maybe brings me on to a point about trust. No-transcript.
Speaker 3:Well, the first thing I would like to say is that it is a train that has already left the station. So biometric ticketing is happening. It's being implemented all over the world. If we're looking North America, south America, we're looking in European use cases. So there is already implementation. However, it oftentimes, for example, in South America, comes with regulation, in South America, comes with regulation.
Speaker 3:And now if clubs, venues, even organizers, want to implement the technology in the start to actually avoid having issues with fan resistance, the first and main step is transparency in explaining why it's being implemented, how it's being implemented, and do it step by step, so not mandate the use of the technology to anyone in the start. Bring it to the fans with the benefits that it brings. So for the fans, it's usually speed of entry, it's the convenience. It comes from real case studies. So we can talk about what happened in Brazil. In Brazil they implemented it for a stadium of 43,000 people and they had an average entry speed of 8 to 10 people at the time per turnstile. They managed to ramp it up to 21 to 25 on average. So that was the additional value for the people themselves. And then clubs oftentimes add different incentives for the fans to try it out.
Speaker 3:And why do I mention try it out? Because from experience of others, but also from my own experience when I started working at Innovatrix, you only need a first good impression, a first good experience with using the technology. And as you use it two, three, four times, you will never get back, because you just understand how simple it is. Very quick anecdote when I was still working at Innovatrix and we were switching from two offices in the previous one we had phase biometrics for access control. In the new one not yet, and myself included, but all the staff were forgetting badges and we actually could not get into the office. That's how you used to get to facial biometrics.
Speaker 2:What did you bring with you today?
Speaker 3:Just myself.
Speaker 2:So you were pretty much walking around with. Just everything was all contained up here, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Buying things, paying for things. It is possible to connect it also for payments, but I think that's the next level. So I would keep it for the start with the ticketing, because that is where there is most of the use and it can be slowly implemented.
Speaker 2:But from an experience perspective for the sale to the customer, about why it would be good for them that you don't even have to bring your wallet. Your day is taken care of. Yeah, that is an advantage I would imagine absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's, it's again it. You can create a concept where you just walk in and you don't have to stop to do any action. So basically, you just smile at a device and you take your beer, you go in, you can pay for merchandise, you can actually do any kind of activity, just being yourself. And there's a very strong message behind this and this is that you know tickets.
Speaker 3:If we go back to ticketing, ticket was a great invention to be able to commercialize events and get money, but then there were different organizations, smart people, who started misusing the tickets, and we always talk about the ticket being the problem of the whole industry, which is a bit of a provocative thought, a bit of challenging towards the whole industry. But why is it a problem? It's because it can be easily transferred or given from one person to another. So it causes two major issues. So it causes issues with reselling or ticket scalping, as you may know in here, ticket touting a big name and, obviously, security. So there are two really, really big issues that come with the fact that ticket can be misused in these ways.
Speaker 2:The subheading slash strap line of this was the ticket is the problem.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the ticket is the problem and maybe we can break it down to make it more understandable. But if we look at ticket touting, what happens usually is that you have bots or companies that use bots that are going to get a ticket before you can even finish typing your your email address right. So at a time when you are still somewhere at the end of your email address, they've already managed to purchase a ticket and they've already managed to put it on their secondary sites and they're earning money which the event organizer, the original sports club, whoever it's it's their product they're supposed to get the money. They are not money which the event organizer, the original sports club, whoever it's their product, they're supposed to get the money. They are not.
Speaker 3:And that's the problem. And there is a simple reason how to stop it? Because bots don't have one thing and that's a face they don't have identity. So if you can actually take out the stock and replace it with identity, then you have a way how to I wouldn't say eliminate in the first moment. But you make it extremely hard for scalpers to do that, because suddenly they have to hire thousands and thousands of people to open new accounts to buy tickets, and that has an end at some point.
Speaker 2:So that's how the bad actors would kind of look at this, as to how do we get around this, the same way that they've tried to breach or have breached current innovation and technology.
Speaker 3:Yes, they will be obviously searching for ways how to counter it. Technology is always the game of innovation who gets on the top at a certain time. But really in this case it makes it really really harder for touts and scalpers to do that action and it suddenly helps a lot the whole industry to do that action and it suddenly helps a lot the whole industry. If we just look at UK in numbers sports if we're talking sports it's 18% of the ticket fraud that's happening in here. That's 1.44 million, which may not seem a lot, but it's 1.44 million just on fraud. And then we have the whole reselling market, which is even larger, and it's very, very hard to count in general.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a lot. If you're a club, then. So we talked about the guest and how it would benefit them. But say, if you're a club, you're well aware of all of the issues that entry and you know, joined up journey with purchasing et cetera. I know that's part two but brings complications. Trust, how am I going to convince my audience or my customers to do this? We've sort of started talking about the guest journey, but how do you convince the organizations or the sports clubs, the events themselves? I think it's mainly through numbers.
Speaker 3:So listen to commercial value and whether it is looking at the savings side or whatever the club can make extra, and those are the tools and ways how they're going to listen and we can break it down. So we are looking at savings for touting, for scalping, we are looking at a faster entry speed, which means that there is a longer time within the stadium when the fans can spend, and there is this trend, which we also discussed, where clubs are trying to bring different segments of their fans earlier to the venue so that they can spend for beers and for food and all of that. So that is a very important aspect. The solution comes with extra benefits when we look at the access control. You have a feedback display screen in there and you can use it as a commercial space for sponsors, for partners, where they can have their awareness, they can have their logo, whatever activation they want, and that's an extra revenue stream potentially for the club.
Speaker 3:And then it goes all the way to security, which is always a large and huge topic in here. But security is more than just the financial fines that clubs get. So it's not only about saving that. In Premier League we have, I'm sorry to say it in euros. I don't know exact conversion to pounds at the point, but we are looking at 2.93 million euros that are being paid in fines that were two seasons ago and that's pretty a lot and it happens in every country. It's a very common case and if you can lower these fines by blocking the wrong people from going to the stadium, then you have another way of benefit for the club.
Speaker 2:We can do that today. There's lawyers and accountants here today. We've just heard from them.
Speaker 3:That's not exactly the ethical way of doing it.
Speaker 2:We don't support it, but yeah, so being the organizer, take me through what it looks like on the day.
Speaker 3:Okay, in terms of implementing the technology or from the fan perspective.
Speaker 2:Let's work backwards. Let's do the fan. What happens? We've talked about how they buy the ticket. They've uploaded their face, it gets coded and et cetera, and then now they're on their way with no ticket, no phone, no keys, nothing. They've forgotten everything because they're just turning up what happens when they get to the gate.
Speaker 3:Well, they walk towards the gate, whether it's a turnstile or just a corridor, and they just have a tablet or camera or certain electronic device that has a camera. They look into there and they are good to go.
Speaker 2:So it's fixed to the entry mechanism.
Speaker 3:It is, it can be, it can also be handheld, so obviously we're talking about events which don't have turnstiles. We could easily use it at an event like today, so you could have a simple tablet which can do the job as well, because it works on handheld devices.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and where I was going with that was, I think some events do like whilst there's all of the benefits and advantages, you say it's, how can you still retain some of the things that your event does in terms of a welcome or a bit of guidance, etc. But the handheld one is you just use it as a tool.
Speaker 3:And that's what I would also reinforce as an idea. It is meant to power the actions and the benefits that the organizer wants to give, so it's not supposed to totally replace everything. It's also nice in a way that it can recognize who is standing in front of the camera. It can give the information to the organizer. So if we're talking about VIPs, it's a perfect tool because you can say you have a special guest standing in here and immediately send a notification to the organizer who can come welcome, can bring you know, special treat to the person, whatever that would be. So you can still use the tool in that way.
Speaker 2:That's very, very powerful, free to the person, whatever that would be, so you can still use the tool in that way. That's very, very powerful. So that could be in the convincing of the organizers, or the event could be look, you could just start small, just do it for your VIPs, and then get good feedback and then start to expand.
Speaker 3:That links back to what. When you ask how to lower the fan resistance, potentially, it's what I mentioned. It's starting step by step. So it's going from a small test. It can be a certain group of people that you all know in your organizations. You know who is your best customer for that, whether it is the VIP, whether it is the family stand, whether it is a certain group of younger segments. If you have the data, you can offer that possibility to a younger segment, for example, if you believe they are the ones to use it. Therefore, it's the ideal stage where you have a small group in the start, you promote it in a specific way. You give them incentives In sports.
Speaker 3:A lot of times you give them free beer, you give them a discount on a ticket and just tell them try it out, no strings attached, you want to continue, you're good to go, you can always have all your data deleted, nothing, no trace, and you're set for good. Therefore, that's the best way to start with. And then I think the most important in overcoming fan resistance is having internal ambassadors. So if you have fans who tried it, have very good response and experience with it and they start talking about it to their peers to their relatives. That's the way how the fans will slowly start implementing and trying it more and more, because it will not be imposed to them by someone. It's not going to be an organization asking them to do something. It's going to be their friend recommending them a service.
Speaker 2:We talked about Brazil. The difference with Brazil and Europe it's bigger there in Brazil. It's going well there.
Speaker 3:What's the vibe over there. I would say well, obviously, sometimes it's the size, sometimes, let's say, the size of the fan base which can differ, but I still believe that any fan in the world in its essence is the same. So they still want to go and watch a game and enjoy the product, enjoy the atmosphere. They still want to meet with their peers, their relatives, so it's very much a community-based product. If we look at it, so many times we hear like, yes, the product can work in South America and it can work in North America, but in our country it is different. And I don't think that's the case. I believe that really, the fans are, in its essence, the same everywhere and they are listened to the same incentives, to the same transparent talk. So if you really talk to them in in an open way, they will in the end be willing to try and maybe to connect it to like biometrics.
Speaker 3:We're talking biometrics and ticketing, but biometrics is used in everyday life. I I believe many of you sitting here use biometrics every day, probably for unlocking your, your phone, whether with the face or with your fingerprint. So it is just bringing the same technology that you already trust in one use case to another use case, and it is about the fact that now the data aren't being held by Apple or Google. It's about the fact that it's held by your club and that the data are much safer in the hands of the club than when you post pictures of yourself on social media, because that can actually be misused, whereas the information that is collected in this process is useless because there isn't any original trace of the data it's interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the trust thing we've already talked about, but the comparisons to what we're already doing, that we don't even realize. That I've just been doing on stage with phone notes and phone here, so yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 3:So it's really, it's kind of what I would really like you to stay after with this idea is that the technology is really meant to help organizers, whether it is with security, whether it is with touting, whether it's with faster access or help fans with speed and convenience. It's really meant for the audience. It's not built to hinder, to damage or anything like that. So it's looking at the technology as an enabler of what it can do and what benefits it can bring, and that's where we should leave this discussion with.
Speaker 2:Yeah sure, One more point. We've got one second left Verification versus identification.
Speaker 3:Okay, Then I'll do it very quickly and this is maybe an important topic. Identification is something that a lot of people fear, and when they hear biometrics they think like surveillance, big brother. That's always a lot of those first ideas that come to mind. And identification can be used in the stands to search for one person. So I have a database of people from a national registry, doesn't matter and then I search, I pinpoint one person in the stands and I search in the database to find the identity. That's what people are afraid of and that's what we're not doing, because we're talking about biometric ticketing. So there is a pure difference in there, where you only give your consent for linking your ticket to the face accessing and there is no other process happening. And you can do it all with verification if you want to. It's all possible with verification without the user identification and holding a list of users. So that's just to clarify and to make sure that there should not be fear in this way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the message there then is that the terminology needs to be precise when you're entering into it, when you're selling it. You know all of those things. Yeah, I learned a hell of a lot in the couple of conversations I've had with Daniel. I hope I've represented you well with some of my questions. But if not, daniel is around for the end of the day. He did tell me that backstage, so he is around for the end of the day. He did tell me that backstage, so he is around. So, yeah, look, I think there's a part two, which is the links to restaurants and all of those joined up customer service journey and all of the other stuff that can come with it. So it's really exciting stuff. So, thank you so much, daniel, thank you.
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