Don't Forget Your Tickets
Don' Forget Your Tickets is a podcast devoted to the unsung heroes of the spectator sports and events industries, the Ticketing Managers. We explore who they are, their well-guarded industry secrets, and how they entered the field. Beyond that, we delve into a broader ticketing realm, inviting experts from various fields to share their insights and stories. Our primary aim is to add value and highlight deserving individuals.
(The podcast was originally named TicketingPodcast.com)
Don't Forget Your Tickets
From Zero to Stadium Hero: Daniel Cook (Head of Ticketing, WRU) on Digital Strategy, Data, and the Demands of Matchday
What does it take to go from zero experience in ticketing to leading one of Europe’s largest stadium operations?
In this live rooftop conversation from Manchester, we catch up with Daniel Cook, newly appointed Head of Ticketing at Principality Stadium and Welsh Rugby Union (WRU). One year after his first appearance on the podcast, Daniel shares how he worked his way up, the challenges of balancing rugby and global concert operations, and what it means to own and leverage data in a digitally driven stadium environment.
From preparing for the Oasis world tour to achieving over 99.98% digital ticketing for Six Nations fixtures, Daniel offers real-world insight into operational leadership at the highest level — and why ticketing is the unsung hero of live events.
If you work in ticketing, fan experience, or stadium ops, this episode will leave you energised, inspired, and just a little envious of Daniel’s view from the top.
Don't Forget Your Tickets is powered by TicketCo and hosted by TicketCo’s CEO, Carl-Erik Michalsen Moberg. The podcast was originally named TicketingPodcast.com
What does it take to go from zero experience in ticketing to leading operations at one of Europe's biggest stadiums? In this episode we catch up with Daniel Cook, now head of ticketing at the Principality Stadium and Welsh Rugby Union, wru. It's been a while since our last chat and this time we met on a sunny rooftop at the Gotha Motel in Manchester to talk about his journey from major career moves to managing global scale events. Top of mind for Daniel now is the Oasis tour that is starting at the Principality Stadium and is just around the corner. From the upcoming Oasis concerts and sold-out stadium nights to digital first ticketing and operational leadership. This one's packed with sharp insights and real-world experience. Let's get into it. Hello and good morning today from Manchester, where the sun is shining and it's 20 degrees. I have to say it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:Today we are sitting outside on the roof terrace together with Daniel Cook, a well-known man in the ticketing industry and obviously one of the important guests at the Ticketing Business Forum in Manchester. And obviously one of the important guests at the ticketing business forum in Manchester. If you remember, we interviewed Daniel in April last year. Time flies, I mean, it's crazy. You think about it. Time flies in ticketing. But he was then a digital ticketing and customer operations manager at WRU and a principality stadium in Cardiff A massive stadium and a super important stadium for the world, so to say, with global artists, rugby matches, six Nations and other major events which we'll touch on today. What's really cool is that when Daniel started, he didn't have any experience in ticketing, but I think he has a lot of experience now and we're also going to touch on some of the events he's recently been working on and what's coming around the corner. Daniel has also been promoted to head of ticketing.
Speaker 1:Congratulations and welcome to the podcast again, daniel. Thank you. Thanks for having me. What a beautiful location to catch up. It's fantastic. I have to tell the listeners, manchester is beautiful today. I hear it normally rains and I believe everyone who says so, but today is a fantastic day. So, yeah, hope everyone's outside enjoying. So tell me, daniel, what have you been up to?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been, I'd say, busy, but it's probably the normal for us in the industry. We've posted plenty of sellout rugby matches, big concerts For us in the industry. We've posted plenty of sellout rugby matches, big concerts. I think when we last spoke, we were waiting the arrival of Taylor Swift and co into town and delivered that. That was fantastic. We did a number of big concerts that year and we're now heading into a record-breaking year for us with a record-breaking number of concerts around the corner. We're not quite out of rugby season yet. We've just finished Six Nations campaign for our men's, women's and under-20s. We've got some English premiership rugby in the next few weeks and then we host the EPCR finals before we head into 2025 concert season. So it's yeah, it's been good fun. It's been tiring, I would say, but that's what we do.
Speaker 1:That's what we love, isn't it? That's what we're here for. That's why time flies as well. Right, exactly, you're having fun, exactly so. Uh, you touch on many things here, of course, but, uh, one of the things is all the events you're looking into. We'll come back to that afterwards, but how have you worked your way up through the ticketing chain? I mean, from no experience in ticketing to now head of ticketing in a massive stadium with all these different types of events? What do you do on a day-to-day basis, week to week, to get to that?
Speaker 2:position. I think it's funny. I think anyone you speak to, I think people you tend to fall into ticketing and it just happens at the forum last night and there was a whole section around. We need to stop people falling into ticketing and we need to make it an attractive proposition that people want to be a part of, because it's a brilliant industry. Yes, um, like you say, I had no experience. I came from customer operations background and I think that set me up quite well. Yeah, because I think if you've got an eye for data and an understanding of customer experience, that translates very well into guest experience, supporter experience, fan experience.
Speaker 2:I've worked with an absolutely incredible team over the last six years. Um, when I joined, uh, my previous boss was, uh, was unbelievable and and did a lot for me in terms of nurturing and developing my skills in ticketing, and I'm forever grateful to matt for that. But the team around us where it's? We're a very small team. I think I touched upon this in the last 15. I think, yeah, yeah, and we've actually got a little bit smaller, but we all pull together and I think we're in a position where you have to learn from each other. Yeah, we're not big enough that we all work in silo and we do our own thing and then it in the end it turns into something amazing. We all have to kind of cross into each other's areas and understand things and really pull together, and I think it's the sort of industry where if you've got a passion for sport and entertainment, you don't feel like you're working.
Speaker 2:My partner always criticizes me. I'm always on the clock, I'm never logged off, I mean, I'm always answering emails or I'm always doing something, but that's because I love what I do and I think, because I love what I do, I'll pour everything into it, and I think that's probably just accelerating my development over the over the last few years and I find myself getting stuck into all sorts and it's really helped. I think. Having the passion and the desire to to learn and want to do more, being surrounded by enthusiastic and passionate people, it builds everybody together. You're all growing together and we're a very tight team and with very, very low turnover. It's been the same core team for the six years I've been there. I've loved every minute of it and it's been a whirlwind, and to now have the opportunity to head up the team that I joined six years ago is an absolute honor, and I've been in role now for about a month and it's been challenging, it's been fun, but it's fantastic.
Speaker 1:But you mentioned I mean falling into ticketing. I can agree 100% right For all the ticketing people we've talked to in this podcast. I think everyone is falling into because they are engaged right, because they would like to help. And the good thing with having a role that you fall into it's not a formal role is that you attract a certain attitude in people.
Speaker 2:Do you agree on that? Yeah, I think so. I think you're right. When I joined, I joined as a customer service manager and my role was purely to look after the customer service operation. Yes, you need certain skills, but I think certainly when we're recruiting, I'm looking for the passion and the desire, and I think there's a lot of ticketing. You can't reasonably expect people to know it's very niche and we're actually recruiting right now for a customer service manager to backfill some of my responsibilities and, looking through applications and CVs, you very rarely come across somebody actually with the ticketing skill set.
Speaker 2:Yes, but if you've got someone you know that can manage and engage a team, is passionate about customer experience, has a keen eye for data but a real desire to develop and grow and a love for spectator sports or live music or live events 75 80 way there. Yeah, we can teach the rest, yeah, yeah, I think once you get those skills, then it's uh, you know, talking at the forum last night, most people, obviously, once you're into tickets, you never really leave. No, no, because you're such a valued asset within the industry. Then because you, because you know it, because you know ticketing, and I think you join ticketing through one way or another. Very rarely you join ticketing via ticketing. You join via something that's kind of on the periphery and then you find your way in and then you're there If you've got the desire. And it's a challenging industry and it demands long hours, it demands late nights, it's very demanding, but the rewards, I think, pay off more than most. I agree with you 100.
Speaker 1:I think one of the key drivers as well from this podcast has been to try and bring forward the people in the ticketing right, because what we saw as well through working with a lot of clubs is that in many clubs it's very appreciated but also, in many places, very underappreciated. Right. You get a lot of noise when things are not working, but when things are working you don't hear anything. Right, that's the best kudos you can get if your phone doesn't call. Probably, right, yep. So have you seen any development since you came into ticketing? Have ticketing become more important as part of the total? I mean, if you look at all the different roles within our organization, where do ticketing sit now compared to, for example, where it sat when we had the last episode?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think most operations you talk to in ticketing, certainly from a venue perspective, you'll find ticketing sort of flip-flops between a commercial entity and an operations entity. It does that dance every two years. We've actually recently changed and we've moved from a commercial to an operations. Within the restructure of my appointment, we're now a stadium operations entity, which I think is fantastic. I think it actually works really well because if you break down the core responsibilities of ticketing, it's to ensure your supporters and your guests have their tickets to enter safely, to get to their seats and to enjoy it. So that is all operational. Now I understand the huge commercial side of ticketing and it ultimately keeps many businesses afloat. The revenue stream is probably 90 plus percent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But as an operational entity you're right, your phone doesn't ring You've done a good job. Ultimately, that's it. That's it for us. So, yeah, we've done that dance and we've recently changed and I think it's been a good change for us. We work very closely with, you know, stadium operations, venue sales and that side of things which will go hand in hand Makes sense to sort of amalgamate the team there and have all the key decision makers pulling from one place rather than sort of segmented into different areas. But, yeah, I could probably sit here any other time and argue the case that it's more of a commercial entity and it's better suited over there. So I think it can go either.
Speaker 2:I think what's really important is the cross-department collaboration required. I think ticketing is a bit of a almost a glue between departments because, yes, there revenue attached is the operational, there's a safety pieces, marketing and data, all kind of drives through, especially with you know, the, the app that we use as our core hub for For fan engagement and ticketing, when everything drives through there and that could be our safety messaging. That could be our way. Find an operational Ticketing piece. That could be our marketing. Yeah, data collection, our sales can all come through one place. So actually almost ticketing becomes that little hub in between that all other areas feed into. I think it's becoming.
Speaker 2:You know whether this is because I've been more involved and and my position in ticketing has grown over over the last six years, I feel it's becoming more appreciated. Yeah, and I think that's that's thanks to the likes of yourselves giving ticketing a voice and giving ticketing a platform. I always say to my team look, you're the team off the field, you're the young sung heroes. When things go right, no, we don't hear a peep. When things go wrong, we do, yeah, but I'm starting to feel more that there is an understanding and appreciation to what goes into building, selling ticketing and delivering these events.
Speaker 2:From a ticketing perspective, it's not just as simple as press a button and people can buy a ticket. And some of the work my colleagues, in particular two of my colleagues, steph and Tina, that work in our ticketing operations area, some of the work they do no one would come into the stadium if they didn't do the work they did. It simply wouldn't happen. The stadium would be empty if those two didn't do the work that they did. And I think for me, certainly, stepping into this role, I've been there now and seen where ticketing has gone under the radar and has maybe not been given the spotlight it deserves. And I'm certainly going to take on that responsibility to make sure that the light is shone on people like that and those roles. That they weren't there and they didn't do it, the event wouldn't happen, I agree.
Speaker 1:But when you sit day to day in the system with the, with everything that comes with it, analyzing the data, it's very easy to get a little bit of television right. How do you get your team to take a step back and actually understand why they're doing what they're doing? I know that when there is a big concert or a big game it's easy to see all the smiling faces. But how do you take that step back on a day-to-day and find out or let them know or whatever you do to help them understand that they're actually part of something much bigger, to help them understand that they're actually part of something much bigger?
Speaker 2:I think we're in quite a unique position actually as a venue because we're also the governing body of Welsh rugby. We know that the revenue made goes into funding the game and goes into bringing forward the community game and the pro game etc. So it's not just we need to put this event on. This is going to make X amount of money and that's fantastic. It's. You know, this is going to bring in X amount which is going to help fund the game and the growth of the game and the growth of the minis and the women's and the juniors, etc. So there's all that it ties back to what we've got a one world strategy which is around the fostering and developing of Welsh rugby, and everything we do links very neatly back into how we're bringing that forward. Because ultimately, the more players we've got in the community, the more fans we're building. The more fans we're building, the more more people are buying. Yeah, and you know your youngsters are becoming semi-pro, pro and eventually playing on the fields, you know, in front of their friends and family. So it's a wonderful journey to be a part of. So, in that sense, for a rugby fan, it's really easy to be motivated because you can tangibly see the difference you're making by putting that on.
Speaker 2:I think for those that are maybe more, maybe casually, affiliated to rugby, but they're more for concerts and the events and it it probably is that feeling you mentioned around. I know I'm working towards something huge here. We spoke earlier before we started the recording around. You know the buzz around certain concerts and people. You know all the text messages. I didn't get my tickets. I got mine. Can't believe they're back together and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:Knowing you're a part of that, yeah, and you're putting that on and and it does boil down to, if you know, everyone is a cog in that engine and if one person doesn't do what they need to do, we don't do what we need to do. And I think, being such a small team, as I mentioned, everyone knows that they play such a big, important part in delivering what we do. So, as a leader, it's quite a luxurious position to be in. The industry itself is very motivating. Yes, you know we're not sat there talking about you know our job isn't to do things that we have to go home and think, oh, I've got to go back in tomorrow. We go home and think, oh, what's on tomorrow? It's really refreshing.
Speaker 1:It's nice. Fantastic because it's always something new. And, speaking of high demand, you have a couple of pretty good concerts coming up. Do you want to go through the list and maybe talk a little bit about how it's been to gear up to?
Speaker 2:those events. Sure, I mean good timing that we're in Manchester. We've got two brothers that people might have heard of. We've got the opening two nights of Oasis World Tour Wow, which might have heard of. We've got the opening two nights of Oasis World Tour wow, which we can't wait. We're ecstatic for that one, you know, for them to to reunite and put on a World Tour and for us to have the opening night. It's just, it's phenomenal for the stadium, for the city. We're really excited, and you know it's been. They'll probably don't need to go into too much detail around the uh, the demand for that one.
Speaker 1:Everyone else it was massive anyway. Right so, but can you talk a little bit about how your organization is working when you have a massive event and such demand as well? I think that's super interesting for our listeners to hear more about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, it's very difficult where we find ourselves, because we're always focused on rugby. That has to be our primary focus. We've got two major series across the year. We've got our Six Nations for our men and women and our under-20s, and we've got our Autumn series. Now, whilst we're delivering one, we're planning the other. Whilst we're on sale with one, we're getting ready to go on sale with the other. While we're delivering one, we're on sale with the other.
Speaker 2:So that's constantly bubbling around in the background and that always needs focus. So bubbling around in the background and that always needs focus. So our ticketing operation managers then will take responsibility for an event that comes in, allowing one to focus on delivering the rugby one to focus on the event. They'll then liaise with the band's promoters, the ticket providers, et cetera, get everything built, get everything set up within our system that shows. You know, this is a capacity. We'll run through sort of price breaks etc. Get all that ready, get that back to them and say, right, this is what your show would look like with us, yeah, and then they'll go ahead and build it and then get ready. And then we'll start liaising and that's where you start bringing in comms and marketing around. Right, here's key dates. This is where we need to communicate to these people.
Speaker 2:You know we don't necessarily sell on our system these events, but we tend to sell via the main ticket provider. However, we will always take accessible tickets in in-house because I'm a firm believer that we know our venue and our city more than any other ticket provider can. So I think it's important for us to take our accessible tickets in. We've come on a long journey over the last 12 months with our accessible tickets, in which we've recently won awards, for we're very passionate around taking accessible tickets in-house. That comes with then selling on our system.
Speaker 2:There is a degree of sales that needs to come through the teams. The support services team then needs to be armed and ready to go in terms of sales and then for an event like this, it's adopt the brace position and get on sale and see what happens and then, like you said earlier, if your phone doesn't ring, you've done a good job. Now it's Can you tell us where you were when the sale went off? Yeah, I was actually away with my family, and that's probably a really good point, because we have no say over the concert on the stage. It's a world tour. Every event would go on roughly around the same time. I was away with my family at the time, so it was take the laptop and the phone and hide away in the shade for a couple of hours which turned into a day really on the phone, a combination of work and people ringing me saying how do I get tickets this isn't working.
Speaker 1:How do I do that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was a stressful day, but you know, I'd rather be stressed away. I was. I was in La Palma, a small island just off and off the coast of Spain, and I'd rather be there than then sat at home dealing with it, of course, but that was a fun day. Yeah, with those sorts of events, it's unfortunate that the land is colossal. Yeah, I've never seen anything like it. Demand is colossal. People are always going to miss out, unfortunately. If we could host 20 nights, we would, but that's just not our decision. So we're really, really, really excited. We can't wait to get that one going.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's the fundamentals of ticketing, right. Also, when you are a hub for concerts in the world, which you have become right, you will have an extraordinary bond and some people will not get tickets, and that's just facts. But I think we can agree. People can get angry that day, but they also forget fast because there'll be an issue for the next event, right, very, very often. And that is all about taking care of the people when they come to the stadium. And do you work very different on rugby versus concerts? The setup on the stadium, the people you have engaged, or is it more or less the same?
Speaker 2:structure. It will depend on the setup within the bowl itself. You know, obviously, naturally, rugby, the pitch is the pitch, the concert. You've got to get a stage in and then the pitch becomes a floor. Is the floor seated? Is it've got to get a stage in? Yeah, and then the pitch becomes a floor. Yeah, it's the floor seat. Is it standing? Is there a golden circle?
Speaker 2:There's all sorts of sort of complexities to work through. We have to flip quite regularly around our wayfinding and have people coming in through different areas that they might not for for rugby. So there is that for us to consider. When it comes to ticketing, to make sure that you know you might be gated differently. Yeah, we might need to use different, uh, different stairs with different entrances. We've got that. Our stewarding setup will be relatively consistent around the upper and the middle tier, because you get to the lower tier, the complexities of the floor. Then there's a student operation to consider our setup. We're very, very similar to what would be for rugby. We're there. I'll have a member of the team on every gate there to support with ticketing queries, their radio and straight back to the office. It's such a big stadium that if you're on the other side. It could take you 15 minutes to get around to the ticket office to seek help. If you're arriving very late, close to kickoff or close to artists coming on stage, that could make or break your experience. So we think it's important to have somebody there on the gate that can help there and then. So I would say we're relatively consistent.
Speaker 2:The added complexity with third-party events comes when it's different ticket providers. You could have three or four different ticket providers for one event. That becomes quite tricky to manage because it's not just I've got this ticket, I've got this ticket. Well, where do they buy it from? Who's the provider? Are they with us on site? If they're not with us on site, have they given us an extract to see who's bought what? So you've really got to dig deep on some of the queries and it becomes quite challenging then not insurmountable, and you can always find the answers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, for us, and we pride ourselves on such a slick delivery, um, quick and efficient. Don't seem slow us down. Yeah, and the risk is it slows us down and then the backlog starts. Yeah, you know you've got. If you get one query that's taking sort of 10 minutes, you can have five or six radio queries that come off the back of that. We've only got two people on the radio in our office.
Speaker 2:So, you know, as soon as that builds up, it builds up, yeah, and then I feel you know my team that I've got people in front of them. They're very passionate and want to get into the stadium and they're there to experience what could be a once in a lifetime event. Why isn't it working and they're getting agitated. So my team are calling through saying I need an answer. We're working on it, we're trying to get it as fast as we can and, yeah, it can become quite tense. That being said, like I said, nothing is insurmountable. We deal with I think we touched on this last time we do, unfortunately, for third party events, deal with a lot of counterfeit tickets, um, unofficially sourced tickets and that sort of thing. They're really difficult and emotional to deal with, quite horrible to see, um, people being ripped off by, you know, people that are just there to make money, and we've seen that in in.
Speaker 1:Uh, I mean, you've seen the premier league. You see it all over the place, right? The fundamentals. I really hope, in my opinion, I hope that at least in sports, when the teams have such a strong brand, you have an exclusive provider so you can control everything from one normally, unless there's secondary sales, etc. I think it's a challenge to all ticketing provider out there to have a structured secondary platform which is fair for everyone, because then you won't need a secondary market which enables a lot of financial crime. And when it comes to promoters as well, I understand the need for having four different systems because of databases and things like that, but the world has moved on right. There's new marketing tricks out there now that people could utilize utilizing their own data, and I suppose, when it comes to data, needless to ask you own all the data on the stadium, right? Can you tell us a little bit of why that is important and also how you utilize data on a day to day?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think we touched on it last time around unlocking the ticket transfer data, not just having your purchase data where you've got sort of one purchaser and three ghosts for every four tickets purchased. So that's been important for us to understand who our audience is. We're actually on quite a journey. At the moment We've got a new data and digital team that are looking to sort of unify our data and make it more powerful. I think we're in a position where, through ticketing, we've unlocked the opportunity. Now we're starting to really get into what can we do with that data. So I think if we had this conversation in a year's time, I think there'd be some really exciting developments to talk about.
Speaker 2:I mean, my view on data is for us to build a single view of the supporter and if we can understand, you know Dan Cook. He buys his international tickets via his local rugby club. He is a season ticket holder at Cardiff, buys a new shirt every year, attends, you know, three or four concerts with children. You know, while actually building quite a tangible view of me to say, well, actually we know what he's interested in, we know when he's buying. That's where we need to communicate to him. That's how we engage with Dan to make our offering more personalized, and there's some organizations out there that do this really really well. It's that hyper-personalized experience that makes you feel part of it. You're engaged, it's personal and I really think we will get there and I think we're heading quite quickly on that journey. But we've got the community side of things as well. So we've got all our players and all our referees and our coaches.
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually, let's build that into a single view of you know one wales, as we mentioned. Let's build that into the single view of our supporters. So actually play for their local club. You know there's dan's playing in swansea next weekend and the ospreys have got a game. Well, let's make sure dan knows that you can also attend that game if he wants to. Yeah, those sort of things which when you vocalize they sound really basic, but actually if you haven't got the data in that position, you're never going to know. It's just blind spots everywhere. Yeah, so for me it's about, you know, uncovering those blind spots and unifying that one Wales, that one database that says here's your single view of the supporter, here's what your supporters want, here's the opportunities, here's how they want to hear from you, when they want to hear from you, what they want to hear from you about, and then for us to provide that hyper-personal experience.
Speaker 1:Great, so now you're building a data strategy around and you experience great, so now you're building a data strategy around and you, as I said, you own your own data. Yeah, yeah, well, I think we were set up for another episode. It's maybe a year or two and we know time flies, so let's try to rustle around the corner. So one last question before, like we sum up uh, today's episode, I mean we consider forever and so ticketing. Right, but you had, after covid, you went completely digital. Yeah, were saying you were bragging. In the last episode you had 99.5% digital ticketing. What's the numbers now?
Speaker 2:We just delivered two sellout Six Nations games against England and Ireland. We had 144,000 people in for the two games. We gave 31 paper tickets across the two games.
Speaker 1:Wow, we're not even on percentages now. It's crazy, yeah congratulations.
Speaker 2:It is thank you, and I like the huge effort from the team there because you know there's a lot of people, a lot of people want paper tickets. There's a whole souvenir piece to it isn't there. You know I have my ticket. So the team do a lot of educating, a lot of coaching, say look, actually, let me show you how to download it here. It is really simple and actually the feedback we get is well, that was easy. Yeah, and we had some, some amazing feedback from some traveling Irish fans who claim it was the the best pre-match experience in every seat.
Speaker 2:Wow, because it's tickets delivered. Your links are in your ticket to your fan guides, your accessible fan guide. So if you've bought an accessible ticket ticket, you now get a bespoke guide which you can customize to your needs. Yeah, we've recently done some work with with access card, which enables our systems. If you like, if you're an access card holder, you can log into our system and our system now will intelligently recommend the most suitable seat for you based on your access needs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's been a huge piece of work that we've done to make such a massive difference to our support experience. Yeah, but because we've broken that down and we're able to call out the individual needs, we can then create a bespoke ticketing journey. So if I've bought an accessible ticket via our website, when it's delivered to me, it's delivered to me, it looks exactly the same, but to us, in the background, it's a different ticket. Yeah, meaning I can customize the content on the ticket, I can provide an accessible guide bespoke to that person's needs, which we know from the access card. So it's actually again it's back to that personalized experience. If we know that, you know dan has certain needs, well, let's make sure those certain needs are covered in dan's tickets and the feedback we had from those traveling fans. Where it's, you know, seamless in the end, like I said, the best green experience I've ever experienced, which is, you know, the highest compliment from a traveling yeah, yeah, no, it's.
Speaker 1:I think it's. That's what it's all about, right, that's what the future is about data, but how to utilize the data? Right, one thing is the data, but how can you make sure they feel that they're part of the game, or part of the club, or part of the stadium as much as humanly possible? Last question then, daniel. First of all, thank you so much for coming. Don't forget your tickets. We changed name also since you came, because you should not forget your tickets and you should not forget your ticketing manager or head of ticketing, and so to say, because they're doing a lot of hard work, as we can agree on today. You've been on the conference in Manchester Ticketing Business Forum.
Speaker 2:What's the key takeaways from that? You probably touched upon it. It's data, right, it's the use of data to understand how your audiences are behaving and when they want to see your products, and understanding who's interested in what. There's some real fascinating talks around the use of data. I think we're probably in a fortunate position that we've come such a long way being digital. As long as we have that. A lot of it certainly for me, looking at it for with fresh eyes is it's seeing the opportunity that data now presents.
Speaker 2:I think if we went back a few years, it would be how do you unlock the data? Yeah, how do you get hold of the data? But I think where the industry is moving at such a pace around you know, coming almost fully digital, the talk is now changing to how do you get hold of the data? But I think, where the industry is moving at such a pace around, coming almost fully digital, the talk is now changing to how do you utilize it? How do you best use it to not just improve the fan experience but to improve the business performance? Yeah, so, yeah, that's probably the underlying theme for me so far, and obviously there's another full day of it today which I'm looking forward to It'd be how to maximize the impact. Now you've got it. How do you maximize the impact of that data Exactly?
Speaker 1:So data is key Absolutely. I guess that's a new on a data journey and also we will have a follow-up episode. We've done the deal today, so that's going to be good. Thank you so much, daniel, and thank you so much for coming in today to this live studio, which we made ad hoc outside at a hotel in Manchester, so it's been a great pleasure to seeing you in person. It's much more fun to do a physical episode compared to sitting behind the screen, and I remember this one for a long time and I'm sure our listeners will too. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:Appreciate your time, all right you.
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