Episode 61 - Fueling the Run: Insights from World-Class Runner Sonja Friend-Uhl

Step onto the track with the exceptional Sonja Friend-Uhl as she imparts her wisdom from a stellar career as a record-setting middle-distance runner and assistant coach at Florida Atlantic University.  Pay attention as we tackle the pressing issue of undernourishment in collegiate athletes and the high-stakes world of D1 competition. Her journey is a masterclass balancing academics with athletics, setting a standard for aspiring runners everywhere.  Be inspired by the stories of Billy Mills and Roger Bannister, who pushed past perceived limits to etch their names in history. 

Timeline: 

0:00 to 2:00 – Sonja’s athletic accomplishments

3:40 – Female distance runners – burnout at D1 schools

6:45 – Masters track and field is now 25 years and over! The purpose is to give these talented runners an outlet when they leave college

10:27 – It’s ok for distance runners to put on some muscle; a “muscular” body is a healthier body

16:30 – The psychology of preparing to win. The inspiring story of Billy Mills – who won the gold medal for the 10,000 m at the 1964 Tokyo Games

19:07 – Every day for a year, Bill Mills wrote in his journal how the 10k race would turn out, and he was right!

31:58 – Sonya’s experience running track races against college women. “Why is my mom in this race.” 

32:53 – Collegiate Invitational in Miami – Sonja ended up racing against college women that she had coached when they were little kids!

34:22 – Quantity has its own quality.

35:06 – The worst part of aging is getting slower. So, how does one judge a workout?

38:36 - A 75-year-old that runs a sub-60 400 meters!

40:22 – Sports nutrition needs of distance runners. What supplements would Sonja recommend?

42:25 – Karla Antonio, an elite Masters cyclist, consumes ~3 g of protein per kg body weight daily. 

About our guest:

Sonja Friend-Uhl is an assistant cross country and track & field coach for Florida Atlantic University since  2016. Prior to FAU, Friend-Uhl served in a similar role at Vanderbilt University from 2012-2015.  Friend-Uhl, an accomplished runner, began her collegiate running career at The College of William & Mary, and she continues to compete to this day. In March of 2021, she set a new American record in the women’s 1500 meters (50-54 age group) with a time of 4:41.23. In the 2019 World Masters (45-49 age group) Indoor Championships held in Poland, she won a gold medal in the 800 meters as well as a silver in the 1500 meters. Professionally, she has been a member of six United States world teams and competed in the 2000 U.S. Olympic Trials. She currently holds additional American records in the Women’s (age 40 and above) Masters Indoor Mile with a time of 4:44.84, the Women’s Masters Outdoor 1500m (4:16.9), the Women’s Masters Outdoor Mile (4:45.68) and the Women’s Masters Indoor 3000m (9:48.23). When not working with FAU, Friend-Uhl is a personal fitness trainer and private running coach. She holds a USATF Coaching certification and has certifications in fitness with ACE, the ACSM, and AFAA. Friend-Uhl is the lead master trainer at Core Health & Fitness, which manufactures high-end gym equipment.

About the Show

We cover all things related to sports science, nutrition, and performance. The Sports Science Dudes represent the opinions of the hosts and guests and are not the official opinions of the International Society of Sports Nutrition (ISSN), the Society for Sports Neuroscience, or Nova Southeastern University. The advice provided on this show should not be construed as medical advice and is purely an educational forum.

Hosted by Jose Antonio, PhD

Dr. Antonio is the co-founder and CEO of the International Society of Sports Nutrition and the co-founder of the Society for Sports Neuroscience, www.issn.net. Dr. Antonio has over 120 peer-re

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:05

Welcome to the sports science dudes. I am your host, dr Jose Antonio, with my co-host, dr Tony Ricci. If you're a first-time listener, hit the subscribe button and like the show. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, spotify, rumble and YouTube. Our special guest today is Sonia Friend Yule. She is the assistant cross-country and track and field coach at Florida Atlantic University here in Boca Raton. She's been doing that since 2016. Prior to FAU, she served in a similar role at Vanderbilt University from 2012 to 2015. For those of you in the running community, certainly you know Sonia. She's an accomplished runner. She began her collegiate running career at William Mary and she continues to compete to this day and, in fact, competing at a very high level In March of 2021, this is really quite impressive. She set a new American record in the women's 1500 meters in the 50-54 age group with a time get this, tony with a time of 441.23. So I think if you and I did a relay, tony, we still would get our ass kicked pretty bad.

Speaker 2: 1:12

Yeah, I could do that on a good bicycle. Yeah, I think I could deep up with Sonia. Sonia, that's a bad thing.

Speaker 1: 1:19

Yeah, me on an e-bike, possibly, and so okay. So in 2019, the world masters 45-49 age group. She won the indoor championships. This was held in Poland. She won the gold medal in the 800, which, by the way, is a very fast race as well as a silver and a 15. Professionally, she's been a member of 60 United States World teams and competed in the 2000 US Olympic trials. She currently holds additional American records in the women's this is age 40 and above. The masters indoor mile with a time of 444. Imagine that, Tony, a mile of 444. Oh my God. The women's masters outdoor 1500 at 416.9 and the women's masters outdoor mile at 445.68.

Speaker 2: 2:08

So that's, impressive.

Speaker 1: 2:10

Sonia has been working as a personal fitness trainer down here in South Florida. She and I have known each other really for a couple of decades and we've always had talks about sports nutrition, how it applies to distance running, and we're going to have a great conversation because we know, if there's one group that seems to have, you know, not an anti-protein stance about you know, but more they're so carbohydrate centric that it's nice that you're delivering the protein message to distance runners. So welcome to the show, sonia.

Speaker 3: 2:41

Thank you so much. I really appreciate you asking me. I'm happy to be here.

Speaker 1: 2:45

Well, tell us a little bit. I mean, you have an interesting story. I think, and for those of you don't know, my wife was a pretty good middle distance runner in college. She ran at Drake at a D1 school, and all of her friends and I hope I get this right out of all of her friends who ran at Drake, only one is still running. And this is what's interesting is I don't know if they get burnt out. A lot of them got injured, but one of the pieces of advice one of them gave was, if you don't want to get burnt out on running, run at a D2 or D3 school where they won't beat the hell out of you. And that seems to be sort of this common theme of if you can survive the D1 sort of you got to win, you got to win, you got to win. There's just so many female distance runners that drop out. Why do you think that is? What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3: 3:41

I had a bit of a different experience because, coming from William Mary academics was such an emphasis, even though we were D1. And I guess I lucked out with a coach who knew how to balance that. I didn't experience that kind of cutthroat training and competition. I know what you're talking about, though I've seen it with some of my friends throughout the years when I was younger. It's kind of like some of those coaches, because of the pressure they're under, they feel they have to throw. It's like throwing darts at a board, you know, throw everything at them and the ones that stick on then they're okay because they can. They're the diamonds in the rough. Perhaps that can. They have the stability and just the ruggedness to withstand that mentally and physically. For myself I didn't have to go through that, luckily. Also, I feel like I'm I guess rugged is an okay word to use.

Speaker 3: 4:34

I'm not a, you know, I am a athletic middle distance runner Like I never had. I never had to worry about, you know, being underweight or anything like that. I've come from a strong Polish stock so I've got good bones, like literally excellent bone density. I enjoy food, I enjoy eating. So I remember one time, my sophomore year, I was like you know, I'm gonna yeah, I'm gonna try to get under 130 because I'm typically happy weight around 131 to 135 and I'm five, seven and I was like I lighter is faster. I'm gonna try to. In my head at the time, you know, and I tried, I tried to this crazy. That's how. We didn't even have the internet, so I had to read books. You know I was looking up stuff by sophomore year. I found some crazy diets like 1000 calories a day. I lasted literally about 28 hours on that. I said forget it, I enjoy food way too much. I'll just have to work harder, but I did. You know.

Speaker 3: 5:33

I saw, of course, throughout my own career. I think that a lot of it with females in particular, is number one. You've what you mentioned, which was the four years, sometimes five years, of redshirted, of intense pressure, pressure to perform intense workouts combined with perhaps an intense academic schedule. But then, if you're talking about females in particular, you know a lot of us after school, at least in my time three, four years out of school you probably had started a family. There was a good chance you start a family. So perhaps that interrupted continuing that competitive career. I think now it's changed. I would say I think I see a lot more women and even masters women my age which I hope I played some small role in that competing well past their college years or restarting, like having you know, having the family starting the career.

Speaker 3: 6:31

And then we see an influx now in USA tracking field of women in their late 20s, early 30s, and what we did to make that more friendly for them and encourage the membership and the participation we now for masters, track and field, we consider masters 25 and over, we consider masters for track and field, not road racing, not cross country, but track and field 25 and over, 25 and over and with the purpose to give them an outlet. Because what happens is I was fortunate when I graduated school or college, I was competitive and I was fast enough that I could have a foot in the door of a sub elite, right, so I could. I picked up a sponsorship from ASICs, the shoe contract and a little bit of support, and I did that for four or five years and I was fast enough to do that. But there's this, there's this gap, if you will, of people who are.

Speaker 3: 7:31

You know they're, they're better than the average Joe or the weekend warrior, but they're not quite fast enough to compete as a pro, but they still love the sport. What do they do? So now we've hopefully opened that door for them and we have great participation with that now in our masters events. It's really fun to see it. Now they you know 25 year olds go. It goes 25 to 29, 30, 34. So on the rare occasion I might get thrown into a heat with a 25 or 28 year old, they're not scored against me, you know. But but I think I welcome them. I think it's a great option to have.

Speaker 1: 8:07

Wait, if 25 is masters, then what would 55 be?

Speaker 3: 8:12

Well, in the Naples half marathon I ran last weekend, I was happy that there was a what they call it a grandmasters category for 50 to 59 and I won 300 bucks. And then the and then the senior grandmasters is 60 and over.

Speaker 1: 8:32

Oh my God. No, it's not. I'm not Tony. You guys don't appreciate this. I did a standup paddling race a couple of weekends ago and you're going to laugh at the age. I actually won my age group, but you're going to laugh at the age group. It was 60 to 100.

Speaker 3: 8:50

What does that say about participation in that older age?

Speaker 1: 8:53

And it was called. It was called the legends category.

Speaker 3: 8:56

Oh, I love it. That's awesome.

Speaker 1: 9:01

Yeah, my wife's like if you don't beat all these old people, I'm like I'm in the same category. She goes you better beat them, you better beat them.

Speaker 2: 9:09

Yeah, so I've never, I've never even heard of a category with a 10 year gap, never much 40 year.

Speaker 3: 9:16

Yeah, that's. That's some pressure right there for that younger age group.

Speaker 1: 9:21

That's right. I'm like I'm not going to let that 85 year old woman beat me.

Speaker 3: 9:26

I mean you didn't have some explaining to do. That's right.

Speaker 1: 9:30

Now, you know what's interesting about distance running and you sort of touched on it in terms of you wanted to get below 130 and in female distance running there is, there seems to be this, this notion that in a way it's partly true lighter, lighter yard, the faster you are. But I know you, you're actually built much more muscularly than the average distance runner and Is there, could that have contributed to the fact that you tend to be healthier than others where you're not really a wave at all. You actually, you know most people say, wow, you know, she's built almost like a 400 800 runner rather than a 15. So what are your thoughts on that? You know, putting muscle on it I mean, it's not like you have to put on 10 pounds of muscle. If you're a distance running, put on maybe two to five pounds of muscle, is it? Maybe? Will it, you know, avert injuries in the long run or contribute to musculoskeletal health?

Speaker 3: 10:26

You know what are your thoughts a hundred, one hundred percent, and a lot of this you taught me and all of you know We've had many Conversations and when you help me, when I was on some of those world teams, prepare for that with nutrition and so forth. Much of that you taught me. The rest, I think, I just earn, learned by trial and error. But and what I've seen and experienced in all these years in the sport, but 100%, an athletic when I say athletic body, I mean a, as you can see, the muscle tone on the person a strong, muscular body, in my opinion, in my experience, is a healthier body all the way around. So muscular, skeletal, immune system, being able to maintain a healthy body weight, you know, to withstand injury or prevent injury, all those things. How could it not be healthier? You know, and I think that Anybody who's been misguided or who has you know, who has trouble and is challenged, understanding that fact. I Think that now we're more aware as coaches, as Sports psychologists within the university systems, that we're trying to nip that in the bud before it becomes a problem.

Speaker 3: 11:41

When I was going through college it was certainly a problem. I had At least two women, if not more, but two that I remember specifically on my cross-country team that had to end their college career early because of they were undernourished. I mean, one had the bones of an 85 year old woman after her test and you could see the fine hair on the face and your youth. She was clearly too thin. She ran really fast for about a year and a half, like you know. So that's the problem, right, is that initially, and Not so much sometimes, not even so much in the mile. Like the mind you need to be strong, I mean the mile you could have a kick and be able to withstand those kind of workouts. But for sure, like 5k and up in cross-country, yeah, to a point, if you're lighter you will run faster for a little while. But the main, the first thing that seems to go, is that bone density. So the first thing you'll start seeing if they're undernourished, or we call that red zone now the reds is Stress fractures. You know stress reactions, stress fractures they're reoccurring, they're hard to heal. Then they start to get, you know, those little colds or illnesses more often than the other members of the team, things like that. So those are kind of some red flags.

Speaker 3: 12:57

We've also learned as coaches and and training room staff now as well, at the university level at least, to be more aware of their blood work. So I mean, we never, nobody ever, suggested to us when I was in college let's get your blood work done and see where you're at, you know. Now we know like we get. When they come, when they come home to us, when they come back to the university from being off all summer or at home all summer, one of the first things we want to do is check in with some blood work with the training room. Where's their iron, where's the ferritin, glucose levels? You know creatinine, make sure they're not over-training or under fueling, you know things like that. So I think that now there's there's.

Speaker 3: 13:37

It's still going to be a problem because humans, human nature, is what it is, but I think at least now there are more Preemptive Knowledge, there's more preemptive knowledge in place, and that coaches and training room staff, sports psychologists within the system are more aware now of the red flags and trying to get ahead of that you know. So the first thing we do that we brought you in Hosea I think it was the two seasons ago. We brought you in to speak to them. First thing, like August, we start in August. First thing we start off was two meetings of the nutritionist and a sports psychologist and we allowed them to ask the last questions of us after and confirm what they thought they heard and is that what it is? And supplement advice and all that.

Speaker 3: 14:22

So I hope we've turned it around to the towards the better, but I recognize it is still an issue, especially with that group and especially with listen. The nature of a of a distance runner is to be a type A person right like everything's in alignment, checking off those boxes, maybe a little bit OCD and I say that with judging myself as well, because we're we're taskmasters. That's what we do and when we're used to persevering and pushing through. So, with that type of personality, no matter what the sport, but especially like anyone with the weight, could affect the performance, I think it's a, it's an area you have to be proactive with. Do you guys do dexa scans on?

Speaker 1: 15:02

your runners.

Speaker 3: 15:06

We do not. I don't even know if we have that technology available in our sport. I would hope we do in our sports science department, but we don't. Well, actually, I think you do.

Speaker 1: 15:12

I think that the challenge is there's no one there qualified to do dexas.

Speaker 2: 15:17

Okay, yeah, I mean if you ever need, you know to bring the team over and.

Speaker 1: 15:22

I'd be interested just especially in the female runners. Okay we've run. I mean we probably have about 500 dexa scans on our computer. Tony, I mean fighters, you know, we're with over, just 120.

Speaker 2: 15:36

I think about 120 fighters alone now.

Speaker 3: 15:38

Yeah, yeah, well, I know it's helped me with the two you've done on my, on me, have helped me tremendously understand what's going on with my body, with help like all on all kind of levels. Right, because you've got the bone density, you've got when. Where are you holding on to fat? Where? Where is the? Where is the muscle, the muscle growth, perhaps, if you've done more than one scan? So, yeah, I think it's really valuable.

Speaker 1: 16:04

Now this is something, tony, you'll find interesting, delving into the psychology of winning the psychology performance. Sonya, you're always a big fan of telling the story of Billy Mills, the 10,000 meter gold medalist, also Roger Bannister. I mean, you know that, doctors and scientists, you can't run a four minute mile until you run the four minute mile and then everyone's doing a sub four minute mile, right? Tell us a little bit about how you view that, because I know Billy Mills is probably one of and it's what's interesting a lot of people don't know the story Billy Mills, but it's one of the more interesting sort of sports psychology stories there is. Tell us about that.

Speaker 3: 16:40

Well, billy was an American Indian and he was somebody who was kind of unknown for, I mean, he was a collegiate runner at the time that he started this quest to qualify for the first Olympic trials and then get to the Olympics. It was 64, I believe.

Speaker 1: 16:59

Yeah, I think he has 64.

Speaker 3: 17:03

But you know, he wasn't something like now. We know who the top five 10k runners, for example, are in the US. Like we know, he was not one of those people at that time, but he had, from his, from his cultural background of being an American Indian, he had this fantastic spiritual strength of believing in oneself and how you go about manifesting what you want and what your dreams are. And he told the story. In fact, I think he told the story. I know he wrote it in many articles, but he told it to you and I personally, jose, and when that one podcast we had with him, he talked about how he had lost his mother early on. He was quite young I don't remember the exact age, but let's just say between 10 and 12 years of age and his father took him out to the river bank on the reservation and he drew a circle around Billy and he said this is your circle of strength and all your ancestors, including your mom. He said we are all standing there with you and their symbol of their tribe, I think, was an eagle. And so whenever Billy would do his visualization, which I'll explain in a minute, he would see an eagle soaring. That was his cue into his ancestral heritage. And so, to make a long story short, billy came from. He was an okay collegiate runner, but still an unknown on the national and certainly the world stage, and he qualified for Olympic trials. And then the whole story of him making it from the trials to the team which, as you know, in the American system it's I hope all systems are going on that day, because if you're not top three, sorry like go back to the drawing board for four more years. He made the team and again still relatively an unknown and the race itself, the 10,000 meter final at the Olympics.

Speaker 3: 19:02

What led him to that victory? What he describes is that every day for a year he wrote in his journal this is before we had these online app journals and all that. This was handwritten in a journal 10,000 meter he wrote the exact time that he wanted to hit for the win, for the gold 10,000 meter gold the exact time and even the last 200 meters, which I find is really interesting, his last 200 meters split. We call this split, which is really your last sprint right, you're all out sprint. He wrote to the 10th of a second what he was gonna hit in that and it was something insane, like 26.84 seconds, something like that, which is, I mean, that's darn fast, just as an open 200,. He was gonna do that at the end of his 10K because he figured that's what it was gonna take and he even described that in this 10K race.

Speaker 3: 19:56

He knew they were B, he called it a mystery man and he wrote this out in his log There'll be a mystery man, because there's always somebody you don't know about right At these kinds of events, somebody that just the whole aura and the energy of the event helps them propel themselves to the next unexpected level. And then he knew Ron Clark from Australia would be for sure up in that top pack. Yeah, cause Clark was favored, wasn't he? Absolutely, he was well-known and favored, and Billy wrote that on the last lap. He said I'm gonna soar like an eagle and come from the outside and I'm gonna pass them.

Speaker 3: 20:34

My last 200 meters is gonna be the 26 point, whatever seconds, and when? You? It's still available on YouTube all over the place If you just Google Billy Mills 10,000 meter, 1964 Olympic Games, that last. I still get chills when I talk about it. That last lap went down just as he said. In fact he stumbled. He stumbled coming starting the straightaway on the last lap, starting the back stretch, he stumbled and the mystery man was a. It was a German and I guess they have the eagle in there. It's in their national emblem, somehow.

Speaker 2: 21:12

Yes, it is the German eagle.

Speaker 3: 21:14

I can't remember the gentleman's name, but he had an eagle on the back of his shoulder and as Billy's passing him he sees the eagle and that was just like, oh like, just you know this whole imagery thing. He had had his whole life and his dad's words to him about his mom and his ancestry and he passed Ron Clark coming down that last 150 and then the last 50 meters he just pulled ahead so and his last 200 was to the second of what he envisioned. But it was a year of every day handwriting that in his log year.

Speaker 3: 21:48

And I mean, I consider myself pretty dedicated of imagery and visualization, but I've never done that.

Speaker 3: 21:53

You know, I don't know what could happen if I did that, you know. So it just gives power to the fact that, and you know, I believe, and I believe this and I know people have. Actually, tony, you're the perfect person to ask about this what your opinion is. But I've heard before this is from some Tony Robbins seminars I listened to I didn't attend personally but that the subconscious mind does not have to believe what it's told to act on it. It just has to hear it over and over and it can act on it then because it perceives it as reality. And so that's kind of the essence of this imagery that we do as athletes and the visualization and meditation. And I've heard people say, ah, that's not, that's not really the case, you have to. Actually, what I've heard is it's more powerful if you're in practice and you're going through, say, some intervals, and then you're playing it in your mind because now you're feeling the same discomfort and stress physical stress that you would feel in a race, and so then your subconscious mind can better associate.

Speaker 2: 22:55

Yeah, and I think Sonny right on there. But, however, the mindset and the thinking of how you're going to respond during that time has to occur in advance too. So there's merit in that, in better words, in the midst of okay. So I do a lot of sprinting, not only for the purpose of trying to stay relatively fast at my age, but to put myself in severe oxygen depths. My rest interval are very they're very limited and I'm sucking a lot of wind right.

Speaker 2: 23:26

It's very difficult just to train the response, to shut down the alarm systems only during the event. In better words, the response needs to also be premeditated, pre rehearsed, so that it is more effective when it occurs at that given time. So, yes, it may be best to do anything while the actual skill itself or the actual event is occurring. However, a perfect example would be this, sonny, we see this, I see this in fighting all the time. An athlete has a tough round. He sits down in the corner and what's coach saying? Breathe, breathe, breathe. Okay, yeah, this is the wrong time to tell him to breathe. The time to tell him to breathe was 14 weeks ago, to be practiced both inside the ring or cage and outside of that ring and cage. So all of the constructs and how we're going to behave, think and premeditate our thoughts in a given situation have to be first interpreted properly and designed properly in advance of the actual event and then put to work within the event itself.

Speaker 2: 24:32

It's very hard. Yes, you wanna challenge, you wanna suck wind. You want to challenge that Billy had, but he wasn't when he was writing that down. There was value in that right. He was comforting the entire, the subconscious, the conscious, and here's how we will respond completely when that given time occurs. So it is an integration of both. You can argue yes, it's most effective when you're in the midst of the actual skill and event. However, the strategies that you're going to use have to be practiced in advanced and then integrated into the event to mitigate the pain, the suck and wind, or get that. In his case it's a 20th wind to run a 200 meter and 26 seconds. So it's a really great question and I think it's. You must do both in order to excel like you do, and most of the times, athletes like you are doing it when they don't even know they're doing it anyway.

Speaker 3: 25:33

Right, you're incessantly using imagery 100% and I'm glad that's your perspective because that makes sense to me and it gives me comfort because I do enjoy the meditation. I call it meditation. I listen to different apps for athletes when I take my dog for a walk and it's a soothing kind of Exactly yep, yeah, and they may be last 20 minutes and I don't always I'm not always obviously then laying down and closing my eyes and all that, but I swear it gets absorbed because I'll hear some of them in my head. Like just last weekend, a couple of days before that half marathon, I raced an indoor meet with the college women up at UF at that Alachua County. They have a new indoor facility and I raced the mile and then a few hours later the 800. And I'm much more vulnerable now because I'm not as fast as I was. So when I jump in these races with college women I'm not gonna be leading the race anymore.

Speaker 3: 26:32

But I happened to get in a good heat in the mile, like where I had a few women that were faster than me and then a few women that were slower than me. So what I realized with that was it's so important actually mentally in a competition to feel like you have the chance to win, because I've been in plenty of meets now at my master's age, especially since coming back from an illness for a year where I could do nothing, and I've been clawing my way back and I jump in these college meets and I'm getting trashed Like I'm usually up in the front, and because I was running a 503 mile at the time and now I was running a 523 mile and so 20 seconds, as you guys know, in a mile on a 200 meter track it's a lot of space, it's half the track. So in my psyche as I'm racing, what I've discovered is my willingness to hurt that extra tenth degree. It's hard to find when I'm in the back hanging on. However, in that heat I was in last week and I happened to be the second heat and I was in the hunt and I was I race. You know, I'm at this age, I know how to race a mile, so I didn't overextend myself, and so now I'm catching people and I ended up in a full three women's sprint between myself and two other college women for the finish. Wow, that's amazing.

Speaker 3: 28:00

Now I lost out on that. I was too tense of a second behind, but I ran the same team, which is the fastest I've ran since the illness. But it felt amazing because I was engaged the whole time. I didn't have time to worry about splits or pain because I was too busy trying to catch her and then make sure she didn't get past me on the turn and so on and so on and so on. So I was full on race mode.

Speaker 3: 28:24

No other external factors were in my brain and I was just able to immerse myself in it. And that's why I love racing. But I had I can see where the psychology of that had I not been prepared to go in and hurt? Or to go in? And here's the plan when it starts to hurt at 800, you need to press lap five and six. You know that. Those are the kinds of things I think about. And then also there's mantras that develop in the I have developed for myself short three to four word phrases and they come up. They come up when I'm hurting and it's I can't hear anybody else with their yelling, even though they're yelling top of their lungs. I hear that voice in my head with the mantra you know exactly, yep.

Speaker 3: 29:05

Yep, it's powerful. I think psychology in sport is, so I'm really underutilized, still Like more people are aware of it, but I still think it's underutilized.

Speaker 2: 29:16

I think it's very underutilized and not well understood for any of us yet, even those that love it and dedicate our lives to it. And the psychophysiology side that you're talking about, tony, just what does a thought or cognitive process which you're doing while running, because you're thinking how you're going to run, what you're going to do, I mean it significantly changes our physiology? And when I see significantly, it you know the, the significant difference is okay, you're not going to run, you know a four minute mouth, you run a five, 20, but you're going to run in five. You know, in particularly pain. Pain is, yeah, there are, there's actual construct of pain, right, there's hydrogen ions, there's a whole bunch of things going on, but simultaneously pain is an alarm.

Speaker 2: 29:59

And if you can comfort the, the brain, comforts the body, that everything listened, we've been here before. We understand what this is. Let's relax, let's breathe fluently, you mitigate it to an extent, absolutely, and you're able to push through that. But you said the key word and then I'll let you continue. You're a different intent, right, the intent. When you saw you could keep up with those young women and you saw you could just about. When the intent changes and intent drives physiology. How, I have no earthly idea, but I'm going to tell you we're going to find out one day for sure.

Speaker 3: 30:36

I love that. That gives me a hope. I love it.

Speaker 2: 30:40

No, it's a living example of it. And you in the cues, you, those cues were already developed in advance. You didn't just say in that day and they work. They have to have specific meaning and they have to have a specific physiological effect. That's why I tell my fighters in between rounds you know what Smile? Right, there's a physiological response associated. I don't mean like this but okay, cool, here we go again. Why? Because there's a physiology associated with smiling that is far more favorable than anxiety, nerves and worry, and so there's something to all that, and I think those advanced cues that you trained are outstanding. That's the whole point of psychophysiology and sports psychology Cool, it's fascinating.

Speaker 3: 31:23

I love it yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:26

You know. I think it shouldn't be lost on the audience that you're competing against college age women. I mean, that alone is absolutely amazing and I'm always wondering when they see you, they obviously know you're not a college runner. I mean, you're not in college.

Speaker 1: 31:43

What they say to you they must be like oh my God, here's Sonia. There's got to be some sort of reverence to you, like, because it's rare to find someone who's twice as old as college girls running as fast as college girls. I, just I, in fact, I can't think of an example.

Speaker 3: 31:58

Yeah, I think the best experience. I mean I've had several kind of funny stories throughout the year, like when I was at Vandy and I was, and I was still racing pretty fast then like I could hold my own in the first heat of a college mile because I was still running like 445 for a mile, right so, but I was again we'd be waiting, you know, to get called to the line and they would kind of eyeball me like they were trying to figure out what was going on. You know, like why is my mom like in this race? And then after, you know, after the race, no matter how it worked out, really sweet, like I'm going to be I hope you know, and they're innocent in this comment but I hope I can run as fast as you and I'm as old as you and I'm like, oh, thank you so much. And now the most recent interaction I had was that actually, the day I raced that wreck, I ran the American record for women 50 and 54. I was at down in Miami and I was racing in. It was a collegiate invitational down in Miami, march of 2021. And this is so interesting.

Speaker 3: 33:04

A few of the women from that ran from Miami, were running very fast of the great, great mile times. A couple of them had been in my Western Junior Strider. I started a little track club. It was for like elementary age kids when I lived in Weston. This was going way back and a couple of them were in that group and they're like coach, are you in this race? Oh my gosh. And I was like yep. So that was kind of cool. I mean it spanned, I mean 8, 15, 18 years. So it's usually one of respect and a little bit of confusion at first, but total respect and they're very gracious, they're very sweet and gracious, but they don't give any quarter. Now I got to. If I, if I want to move into lane one and they're there, I'm going to have to use my elbow and we'll wait my point.

Speaker 2: 33:58

So, and that's fine with me, I wouldn't want it any other way, right.

Speaker 3: 34:02

I would not know.

Speaker 1: 34:04

Those are great. I mean that's, that's, that's awesome. I mean the fact that you, you're running at such a high level for so many years. I mean that you know what's the thing. I think it was you'll, you'll, you'll like this, tony. There's, there's a certain quality about you know no quantity has its own quality.

Speaker 1: 34:25

I think with Joseph Stalin it said that quantity has its own quality. The fact that you've been doing it so long and so well is in and of itself actually a great accomplishment, because you just, you just don't see that. I mean, it would be like, I guess it would be akin to in the fight sports when George Foreman made his comeback.

Speaker 2: 34:42

Yeah, yeah it is actually.

Speaker 1: 34:43

Yeah, I appreciate that.

Speaker 3: 34:45

So, thank you, I have to. You know it's, I am a competitor, so it's. It's. The hardest thing of aging for me has been getting like, honestly, like yeah, as women, like right, we, you know, are we start to get wrinkles and you know, our bodies don't look the same and yeah, I, I have all that aesthetic you know issue as well. But really for me, the worst part of it aging has been getting slower, like I, I love to compete, so I, it becomes like one of these things, though, how do you even judge a workout, you know, okay.

Speaker 3: 35:17

So these splits last year were good, but now I'm having a harder time reaching those splits are, am I still particular, performing at the same level? Like it becomes this very interesting dialogue, inner dialogue with yourself, of what, what is my new? Where's my new bar? Where do I set the bar for myself? You know, so that becomes and I've learned to manage that and I'll say, you know, having being ill for so long for that year was what I, what that gave me.

Speaker 3: 35:50

It gave me back the joy of the sport itself, because you can become so attached to tangible things like times place. For us as masters athletes, it's a record, american record, a world record, a title, you know. But what that taught me, having it all taken away where it taught me what just how much I really love the sport, being around it, coaching, being able to go out and just go for a run and be out in nature and enjoy it, you know. So that was a joy to bring it all back. And so for a while I wasn't even feeling nerves when I started racing again because I was so grateful to just be out there. But now all the nerves come back because, because you know, once you get to a certain point I can't take the competitor out of me like I want to win. You know so. But that's good too.

Speaker 2: 36:41

This is wonderful because we don't know or have any clue, and I understand, like we, I have tons of injuries we all do as we age and progress, but no one's ever told us in advance how well performance could be sustained through the lifespan and by you setting this type of precedent. Like other young women who run are gonna know this right and know that, damn, you're close to where they are now. What does that mean for them? In 30 years? Maybe, with the right nutritional practices, right sleep, right stretching, right resistance training, I mean we may be on the verge of seeing athletes like yourself have a 2% loss. What, instead of this? 10% decline in cardiovascular Absolutely, or you know, 15%. And I think what's wonderful is you're showing that now and you don't have the tools and resources that these young women will have when they become your age to continue to practice at that level. So this is fantastic. You're redefining human performance and this whole capacity and so on. It's wonderful, it's encouraging to me. I mean you got you know. Really exciting to say.

Speaker 3: 37:54

Well, just so you guys know that I can't claim it all to myself, there is an entire family, I mean, there's entire conglomerate of masters athletes out there. I'm sure, yeah, that I am so grateful to be a part of that. And USA Track and Field, world Masters Athletics, which is all the world championships. I mean, if you guys listen, the world indoor championships. Florida was just awarded to be the host site for that, up at the Alachua County, the indoor track. Up at US. March of 2025, we will host the World Masters Athletics Championship. If you get a chance to go to Gainesville, even for a couple of days, this is a complete competition. Listen, the 70, 75, 80 year olds that you will see and what they can do. I mean, in our own country for the US, there's a gentleman, charles Alley. He runs a 60, it's like between a 57 and a 59.6 second 400 meters and he's 75 years old.

Speaker 1: 38:56

Whoa.

Speaker 3: 38:59

And he looks like a 400 meter sprinter still.

Speaker 2: 39:02

Holy crap, that's awesome.

Speaker 3: 39:04

So that alone, that whole community and of course I raced with them as well, like that's where the national meets are, and then I feel at home. Right, I don't feel as vulnerable, like I'm out of my league a little bit, but they give me so much joy and purpose to continue because there's people literally 30 years older than me still competing, wow, and I don't mean like just jogging around the track, no, they're moving right. Hurdles high jump. I mean it's amazing. Yeah, that's awesome yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:38

There's hope for us all in the 60s Hope for us all 600 age group.

Speaker 3: 39:42

You can throw the shop clip, jose, not me, tony, okay, okay.

Speaker 2: 39:48

Hey, Joey, you know what We'll let you do the high jump Soon and then into. Good news is in 40 years you'll be in the 100 to 150 year old paddle board category.

Speaker 3: 39:58

Yeah, we're gonna figure out how to live another 20 years so.

Speaker 1: 40:01

Yeah, I'm gonna outlast everyone and that's the only way I'm gonna win.

Speaker 3: 40:05

So there you go. Yeah, you'll be at the back end of that 60 to 60 and up category. That's right.

Speaker 1: 40:13

I signed it. We just have a few minutes left. I know you and I have talked about this a lot, especially going back way back when, about the sports nutrition needs of distance runners and how it's evolved, really from like 30, 40 years ago, 30 or 40 years ago till now. So what are your thoughts on that? I know we have similar philosophies and what you tell your runners at FAU. Tell us about that.

Speaker 3: 40:36

Okay, number one is this this is what you taught me and it's true. So I mean and I've heard it many times from other sources since then, but I thank you for giving me that knowledge way back and that is nutrient timing. I think if I could name one thing that, for myself, has made the biggest difference in either my longevity or my performance day to day, it's nutrient timing. So making sure that I fuel my workouts. Well, you know I do what's right for me. For fuel For me, that involves some form of caffeine, at least 150 to 200 calories, primarily carbohydrates easily digestible, and then, but most importantly, post workout recovery, post race recovery. Personally, you know I've tried many products throughout the years. I like there's a product called Tailwind Recovery for my Tate and vanilla like. That's just what I like, but it's what you've always taught me.

Speaker 3: 41:31

It's a one to four ratio of protein to carbohydrate. So about 10 to 12 grams of protein, 38 to 40 grams of carbohydrate in a powder mix, mix it with water and I get that in within. I mean, usually I start sipping on it during the last interval, like before the last interval. So I'm already starting that recovery process. And then branch chain amino acids. So I take, you know, bcaa is probably about five to 10 grams a day and divided dose I take. I also take a supplement. What I've learned is post illness that would benefit me no matter what, even with aging as an athlete is it's called mitochondrial NRG. It's produced by Designs for Sport and it's basically got like creatin, coq10. There's all kinds of just supplements in there that to support the breakdown, you know, of the mitochondria.

Speaker 1: 42:32

Can I ask you about creatin, cause that's the one that a lot of distance runners seem a bit wary of because they might gain a couple pounds, and it's a couple pounds of lean mass. But what do you tell distance runners about that? Cause it's not like your goal isn't to put on five to 10 pounds of lean body mass.

Speaker 3: 42:47

No, I just say listen, try, start low. There's a maintenance dose. You know you don't need to do the pre the loading phase, don't worry about that. Just, I mean it's good for your brain, as you've taught me and we've known from research. It's good for your brain. So, like in my mitochondrial NRG supplement, I think if I told you 500 milligrams would that be too little, or is it 500 milligrams? 500 milligrams.

Speaker 1: 43:10

It should be well. Total daily dose should be 5,000 milligrams or 500. No it's.

Speaker 3: 43:15

Half of that is what's in that supplement. But I take extra creatin on the workout days. Okay, but that's what I say Just take a maintenance dose and see how your body reacts to it, and most of them don't have a problem. I've had one client over the years who said, oh my God, I gained five pounds, and I'm like I think half of it was in her head, but maybe I don't know Five pounds in two weeks. I doubt it. Like I don't think that came from all creatin, but maybe some people are ultra sensitive to it. But I don't see how you can go wrong with the maintenance dose, so I still promote it.

Speaker 3: 43:56

And then beta alanine, as you taught me well. So anytime I'm doing intervals, I'm doing the beta alanine every day and that's about it. I mean what you taught me about protein. I preach constantly. So here's how I. I mean I could track it and I have before, but honestly, like I tracks many other things, I just don't worry.

Speaker 3: 44:18

I just, every time I put something in my mouth, I make sure there's protein present. So if I'm gonna have a snack and it's a let's just say it's crackers or something I make sure there's cheese there. There's some kind of protein present At dinner, typically at night, like it's a good source of protein, and then a side of vegetables and maybe a starch, rice or potatoes, depending. But I also have got my girls doing this from a young age. I just eat your protein first, cause I want you filling up on that before starchy carbs and other things.

Speaker 3: 44:52

So I just try to make protein a priority. My goal is to get in 1.1 to 1.2 grams per body weight a day. Do I always hit that? No, but I definitely try to make 100 grams a day my absolute minimum because I know that, especially with aging as a female, that's ultra important. So I tell all my masters, friends, anybody I train, which is most of my clients now over the age of 45, I'm like you got to prioritize protein at least one gram of per pound of body weight a day.

Speaker 1: 45:24

Yeah, my wife. I mean you know, carla, she's. I mean her diet. If you look at it, you could almost call it a high protein diet. She is roughly. You'll be impressed with this, sony. She's almost at three grams per kilo of protein.

Speaker 3: 45:39

Yeah, she's well, I see her eat. She's doing a lot of shakes.

Speaker 1: 45:44

Yes, a lot she is, does get a lot from shakes, but she eats. I swear to God, she probably eats a whole chicken a day or something.

Speaker 3: 45:50

Yeah, our training volumes are pretty. No, I'm just gonna paste. People don't realize it's hard to get in that much it is.

Speaker 2: 45:57

it is yeah. And the one thing too and you pointed it out nicely, sony. Like people, they think if they up their protein by 50 grams, there's gonna be no more room in calories for carbohydrates. It's a whopping 200 calories, yes, and get in 2000 grams of carbs. It's not gonna impact anything, just by bringing the protein to the minimum dosing it needs to be Absolutely.

Speaker 3: 46:21

I have a female client and she's not an athlete, she just she's just a fitness client. She's in her late 40s and I really I said the best thing that you can do when I'm not working with you I see her twice a week for strength training. I said the best thing you can do is increase your protein intake, get as lean and as much of it in you as you can. This is a lady who follows things to a T and she did it. And within six to eight weeks she did it with macro. So her protein intake is literally like 50% of her caloric intake a day. Her body's entirely changed. Yes, just like what you said. You always said to Jose. You said you can put on muscle, don't lift any extra weight, just eat a copious amount of lean protein. And I mean she did. She's lifting with me twice a week, but we don't lift super heavy because she can't handle that. But the protein did it.

Speaker 1: 47:16

Yeah, I always tell people, you know, cause, we know adherence is difficult. When you work with any client, whether they're high end athletes or mid level or recreational, it's always an issue of adherence. So when it comes to sports nutrition, the timing issue, I always think, okay, what's the easiest thing you could do? Hey, get that protein after you work out, you know, get a shake or something. Whatever you like to drink, I don't care, don't be brand loyal, just whatever you can repeat. And that does help a lot of people. They don't realize that a simple behavior, repeated frequently in the long run, you know, can lead to you know great, you know adaptations.

Speaker 3: 47:52

Well, the way I got Alexa to do it. She loves strawberry milk, Okay. That promise brand is like one of the healthiest ones I could find. That's I can't get her to do a shake yet, post after track, but she'll drink a strawberry milk. So that's what we do, but it's the right. It's perfect. It's the one to four ratio.

Speaker 2: 48:10

Yeah, it's got some calcium, sodium little. It's got some electrolytes in it. You can't be.

Speaker 1: 48:16

Yeah Well, sonia, tell we're out of time. Tell the audience if they want to reach you. I know you do some personal training where they can find you on social media.

Speaker 3: 48:25

Okay, for coaching for running or for personal training, you can find. My website is therunningwarriorcom, as you can see. Please you get ahold of me and if you want to message me through social media, it's. My Instagram handle is at Sonia. My name is Bell with a J at Sonia Runs. At Sonia Runs, I'm getting it right now.

Speaker 1: 48:49

Hey, sonia, this has been a great conversation. I'm hoping the lessons, the things you've learned, some of the younger athletes, some of the younger runners especially female runners they'll take it and apply it, because there's a lot to be learned from what you've done with your athletic career and I think it's amazing. So Absolutely.

Speaker 3: 49:11

That's my goal. I just want you know, people like yourself and other people when I was younger helped me and buoyed me through my dreams and efforts, and that's all I just my goal is to pay it forward. I love the sport, so I'm trying to do it through my sport and through fitness and, yeah, it makes, it, gives me a purpose. It's what I think I'm here to do, so thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 49:34

And one thing I'm sure you're very busy, but one of the things we encourage here and NSU, or guest lecturers, and if you wouldn't mind, I boy, I think it'd be an inspiration to a lot of my students.

Speaker 3: 49:45

So I would love to comment. I would love to sit in on one of your at least one of your classes. I'd like to do your.

Speaker 2: 49:51

We're gonna work that out. You will inspire these students and I think that's gonna be really great and we're gonna plan on that. I would love to Tony. We got it, we got it, we got it, we got it, we got it, we got it, we got it, we got it, we got it, we got it, we got it, we got it.