Sports Science Dudes

Episode 79 - Everton Oliveira - Bridging Martial Arts and Elite Strength Conditioning at American Top Team

• Jose Antonio PhD

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Ever wondered what it takes to transition from a background in jujitsu and judo to becoming a top-tier strength and conditioning coach at American Top Team? Join us as we sit down with Everton Oliveira, who shares his incredible journey from Brazil to the U.S., navigating the intricacies of professional athletics and training. Everton recounts the evolution of mixed martial arts, reflecting on how the sport has transformed from grappler-dominated bouts to the modern era of multifaceted fighters, providing rare insights into the skill sets required for success in MMA.

Our guest: Everton Bittar Oliveira

Bachelor's Degree in Physical Education ;

PGDid in Sports Training;

Specialist in Functional Training and Personal Trainer;

Resistance Training Specialist (RTS);

Certified Physical Conditioning and Circuit Training Expert

Certified Fitflex Trainer

Practitioner Neurolinguístic Program  (NLP);

American Top Team Performance Coach

Professional racing car drivers Performance Coach

 

Since 2012, Everton has been working directly with over 150 professional athletes from all over the world. More than 350 fights were involved directly as a performance and strength and conditioning coach from the American Top Team. 

 

42 MMA Belts / 6 IBJJ World gold medals

1 IBJJ Pan American gold medal  

1 UFC flyweight champion – Alexandre Pantoja (3x)

1 UFC double champion - Amanda Nunes (9x) 
 18 UFC title fights / 12 UFC titles wins

GamebredFc Heavyweight 2024 champion - Junior Cigano

PFL Champ vs Champ 2024 champion – Renan Ferreira

PFL heavyweight 2023 champion – Renan Ferreira

Rizin flyweight 20/22/23 champion – Kyoji Horiguchi

BarenuckleFc 2021 champion – Thiago Alves
 

About the Show

We cover all things related to sports science, nutrition, and performance. The Sports Science Dudes represent the opinions of the hosts and guests and are not the official opinions of the International Society of Sports Nutrition (ISSN), the Society for Sports Neuroscience, or Nova Southeastern University. The advice provided on this show should not be construed as medical advice and is purely an educational forum.

Hosted by Jose Antonio, PhD

Dr. Antonio is the co-founder and CEO of the International Society of Sports Nutrition and the co-founder of the Society for Sports Neuroscience, www.issn.net. Dr. Antonio has over 120 peer-reviewed publications and 16 books. He is a Professor at Nova Southeastern University, Davie, Florida in the Department of Health and Human Performance.

Twitter: @JoseAntonioPhD

Instagram: the_issn and supphd

Co-host Anthony Ricci EdD

Dr Ricci is an expert on Fight Sports and is currently an Assistant Professor at Nova Southeastern University in Davie Florida in the Department of Health and Human Performance.

Instagram: sportpsy_sci_doc and fightshape_ricci


Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Sports Science Dudes. I am your host, dr Jose Antonio, with my co-host, dr Tony Ricci. You can find our podcast on Spotify, youtube and Apple Podcasts, also on Rumble. If you're on YouTube, just hit the like button. Our special guest today is Everton Oliveira. He has a bachelor's degree in physical education. However, you probably know him best. Since 2012, he's been working directly with over 100 professional athletes from all over the world, more than 350 fights that's a lot of damn fights Involved directly as the strength and conditioning coach and performance coach for American Top Team here in South Florida. So welcome to the show, everton. Great to have you.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much for the opportunity. It's an amazing time to to share with you guys, and thank you so much again.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, as you know, I mean Tony. Obviously he works with fighters. I'm just a fan, in fact. I remember my first exposure to mixed martial arts was the tournament style back in UFC 1. I believe Hoist Gracie beat everybody and it was one of those eyeopening experiences. Like whoa, if you can grapple, you will always beat someone who can only strike. That's basically what you know, what I learned from the first few UFCs. And then, of course, it evolved and now the way MMA is is everyone has to know how to strike. Everyone knows how to grapple. You can't just be. Although some would argue, alex perera, he's really just a striker and he's doing really well and maybe we'll start with that. Okay, I want to start with that. So start with something a little controversial. I think if he fought someone I mean c Cormier, he's retired but if you want someone who's a really good wrestler even Jon Jones is a good wrestler I don't think he'd stand a chance. What are your thoughts, everton?

Speaker 2:

So look, people have a wrong idea about Alex. He's well-rounded, he trains a lot of wrestling a lot of jujitsu, by the way but yeah, his main martial art is striking. People know him about his striking skills but it's hard. Mma right now is very complicated and it's a chess game like if you play the right strategy you can be one step ahead of your opponent, but if people make some mistake in front of him, I'm going to go down. So for me he's a very dangerous guy and he knows, as a champion he has a huge target on his back and if he doesn't work a lot, or or even harder than he used to, uh, it's very complicated to stay as a champion. Yeah, and we know his, his training a lot, his, uh, grappling okay, can I put you on the spot, everton, would you mind?

Speaker 1:

no, no, it's fine. Uh, if you had to bet, you're gonna put a $1,000 down. Okay, alex, okay, I'm going to give you two fighters Alex versus Aspinall, alex versus Jones.

Speaker 3:

It's all in fun, everything, whatever.

Speaker 2:

You can't be wrong my man, yeah, yeah, honest, to be fair, and I know Jones is the best pounder per pound in the whole world. No argue with that. But I believe Pereira has more chance against Jones than Aspinall. Wow really, regarding the size of Aspinall and he already told all the media that his first strategy he's going to shoot, he's going to try to grapple, he won't give him a chance to knock him out. So it's all about strategy. But, honest, I will bet on Pereira. He's something special, he is good.

Speaker 3:

I agree with you on that, Everton, and you know what's really cool To see how he really made it later in his career. I mean, he's not a super young guy and he's risen right at what is he now About 37, maybe 37, I think yeah, yeah. So it just shows years of training and skill paying off and it's kind of encouraging to see somebody be able to hold their physiology right and conditioning throughout their life and then come in their mid-30s and really make a stand. So I thought, that was pretty encouraging.

Speaker 2:

And what impressed me, uh, as a fan, uh the way that he, he, he played his strategy, uh, he's striking his striking game, and the power that he can generate even like short distance, like he drove his punch and he dropped people's like like out of nowhere like he's got yeah, he's got dynamite in his fists, but you know who that reminds me of who had dynamite in his fists?

Speaker 1:

Anthony Rumble Johnson. Yeah, I mean, he had a right hand that would just knock people out, but then when he fought a wrestler like Cormier, he couldn't do anything. And, tony, you never gave your $1,000 bet. I want to know what it is. And, tony, you never gave your $1,000 bet. I want to know what it is. Come on, tony. Who would you bet on? Aspinall? Alex Jones, oh, I'm on.

Speaker 3:

Me too. Yeah, oh, all right. Well, it's very important we get to Everton right now, just quickly, I think. Right now, I think Alex is just in a good place. I think he's very tough to beat right now.

Speaker 1:

Right, but if you're talking him versus Aspen.

Speaker 3:

That's a man, that that's something I'd like to see and anything could happen. I really believe that, but nevertheless I would probably go with Alex.

Speaker 1:

That would be. Any of those fights would be amazing yeah.

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1:

I mean every, everyone want to watch that yeah, now everton, you're originally from brazil and you've been here certainly over a decade. Could you tell the audience a little bit about how, whenever I meet people who work as strength coaches, particularly with such a niche sport like mixed martial arts, it's not like it's not like you can go to school and say, hey, I want to be a strength and conditioning coach for mixed martial arts. I mean, there's no route to do that. So everyone sort of has different ways of getting to it. Tony has a different way, as you well know. Corey Peacock had a different way. And explain your journey from you know, growing up in Brazil, coming to the US, and how you ended up really working with American Top Team.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so even before the go to the university I was judo and jiu-jitsu practitioner.

Speaker 1:

I'm a black belt jiu-jitsu, so I started in jiu-jitsu. Sorry, everton, I got to ask you a question because this is an argument that comes up. Okay, and since you do both judo and jujitsu, okay, it's one of those stupid arguments guys get into. They're drinking beer, they're like in a street fight. What's better, knowing judo or knowing jujitsu? Everton, one-on-one no one-on-one street fight, judo or jiu-jitsu 100% jiu-jitsu Really yeah.

Speaker 1:

Interesting. Well, the reason I ask that is, the people who say judo are the ones who say you don't ever want to end up on the ground because you never know if their friends are around they might kick you in the head, whereas in jud, judo, if you could just throw them or trip them, you're still. You're still upright. So, but it's interesting, you said that. What go through your thought process as to why it would be more effective, assuming their friends can't kick you in the head, okay?

Speaker 2:

so, uh, first of all, if you have more than one-on-one like if you have a group of friends, I wouldn't say, because if you go to the ground somebody can come sideways and kick you in the head and lights out, so but jiu-jitsu is very effective on the ground. You can control the person on top. If you're on the bottom for some reason, let's, let's see you, you have a judo or wrestler guy and and take down. But if you're on the bottom and if you're well-rounded in a jiu-jitsu game, you can kind of sweep or even submit a guy or get in some position that you can get away in a good way, right. So that's why and as a jiu-jitsu practitioner, I know the benefits to know what you're doing and I know you can neutralize somebody putting somebody out, example, if you have to, using the jujitsu techniques.

Speaker 2:

But I would say like there's a mix of everything. Like in jujitsu you have to learn self-defense. You have to learn because the jujitsu competition back in the day, especially when I, when I started, uh, you could see people uh trading, uh judo techniques. You could see people like doing the take now it's not not only double legs or single legs. They used to do like judo techniques, so we used to play a lot and, having a judo background that I have too, so when I was competing I I used to use a lot of judo techniques to, to, to start the the fight.

Speaker 1:

So it's good, oh, that's fair answer. I don't, tony I. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3:

real quick I a host of variables, but I um, you know I can't because it really just depends upon too many different things. If I have to sum it up, I like launching people. I'm pretty good at it. My jujitsu technique is not particularly gi is terrible. So you know, I have no choice but to hope judo works, because I trained it for 25 years, you'd rather just throw people around. Yeah, yeah, but everything. So you trained both in brazil right before you came here.

Speaker 2:

Yep, yeah, when I came here, I was already black belt, right I? I earned on my black belt in 2007, so it's been like did you compete in both jujitsu and judo tournaments by chance? Yeah, uh-huh, yeah, okay, that's interesting nothing, nothing huge, but in brazil, yeah, I did oh that's awesome especially especially before.

Speaker 2:

Before, uh, I got to a point that I had to decide uh, do I want to be a professional athlete, like live with that, or just like be a practitioner, and and and I went to the university and I started to work with the sport, so and I was uh doing my, my training anyway, so I was happy with that, okay, and then after the university say tell us how you got into the strength side, everything okay so, uh, in brazil, we we are obligated to go to the university to work as a personal trainer, to work in a strength conditioning area, and when you go to university, you are obligated to go through a lot of different types of experience, like you go to soccer, volleyball, basketball so you have certain areas that you have to do.

Speaker 2:

I started my private trainings back at the time during the university process and I found love to help people with exercise, with sports.

Speaker 2:

As a professional, I feel that we have important part of the people's lives to guide them using the right activities and make a difference in the people's lives, not only like sports performance, like people who want to be more conditioned to join their lives.

Speaker 2:

So it's something that it's my passion and I started to do private back in the day so, and I had a chance to work in a different gyms and to go through a different process like fitness areas, like aerobic, to go through a different process like fitness areas like uh aerobic uh. Over there we used to have like uh uh local strength training uh example classes like uh core uh and glutes uh aero fitness mixing with uh strength training. There was a lot of systems, body systems back in the day. So I kind of joined everything and, to be honest, all that experience today I feel like made me a better professional. Uh, to work with the, with the sports performance, because sometimes I see myself working with plenty guys in the same time, right and, and, and remember me teaching the, the group classes, the team at the gym yeah so, uh, and this is part of my, my professional journey.

Speaker 2:

So, like I said, I found a. I found a love to help people, using the tools that I have as a professional To get to the sports performance was something that started like out of nowhere because I was working at the gym and some athlete came to me and said like, hey, coach, can I work with you? I like your style, I like the way that you train people working at the gym. And some athlete came to me and said like hey, coach, can I work with you? I like your style, I like the way that you, you, you train people. So, and then I started here and there and, uh, one of my best friend, he was doing his master in russia and he moved here to us and he started to work in american dotting. So so that's how my whole way here started, but I didn't even talk or dream about it move and live here. It was something. When I look back, I feel like there's something more powerful than I used to expect and guide me here.

Speaker 1:

That's something yeah, so you're not the typical, I guess. I guess there's no such thing as typical. Like my parents immigrated here I was quite little and it was a plan they had. My father was a physician. He wanted to come here, have a practice medical practice in Washington DC, whereas it sounds like for you it is almost accidental. Like you didn't say, hey, I want to go to the United States and, you know, work with American Top Team. However, you ended up where you ended up.

Speaker 1:

American Top Team and for a lot of people, especially for a fan I don't work with athletes, I'm more of a fan of the sport American Top Team is one of the biggest brands in MMA. In fact, it's possible it might be the biggest brand in MMA. You know, you have that. You have, you know, gracie Gyms. How? Because I have. You know, tony and I we teach at the university. On occasion we'll have students say how do I get to do what Everton does? I mean, how can I work at American Top Team? How can I work with professional fighters? And there's not, actually there's not a path. What would you say to you know, a student who has interest in this field?

Speaker 2:

Oh, okay. So, like I said, I had opportunity, uh, to get to there. And then, uh, I always say to the, to the people that I'm speaking to, uh, you have to be ready when the opportunity comes. And I was prepared. And when I did choose to start work with them, I knew it was a huge responsibility but a huge opportunity. So I gave my everything to the guys that I started to work.

Speaker 2:

And it was something funny because, like I said, I didn't think about to stay here. My friends, they were building something, they were starting a gym here and I used to have a gym, so I have an experience. So they said, like come on, man, we are friends, we are doing something special and we want you here. So I came here to stay for three months. I remember I got here in November, back 2011, so the gym was getting opened and a lot of construction and stuff like that. So we started work around. They opened the gym.

Speaker 2:

I was back to teach. I was back to to teach jujitsu. There was something that I I didn't for a while. I was teaching a fitness group class and I was helping them to to build the the gym. So then, at one point, uh, they said like, come on, man, stay here.

Speaker 2:

And uh, I wasn't in a time in my life, my personal life, I I used to. I was in a relationship and then broke up and so I was kind of like unsecured. So I said like, do you know what? Maybe something's pushing me here to experience this this moment. So I decided to, in my mind, I decided to stay one year. So I said like, do you know what I will give me? I will give this one year break. So I did that and in that year almost my life changed upside down and I started to work with uh antonio silva, bigfoot silva, the heavyweight, and uh, he fought against uh alistairvereem. He had a huge victory and he got a chance to fight for the title and that kind of situation. I saw myself in the middle of whoa. This is huge. And it was my first fight as a professional involved directly. And then I said you know what? I will kind of consider my options. And also I work with race car drivers.

Speaker 3:

You know, I remember that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah. I work with a lot of race car drivers, and that time I was working with one Brazilian, former Daytona 24 winner, and I was kind of like unsecured and he told me man, come on, I won't let you go back. You're a good professional, I like you, I like to train with you and I won't let you go back. Stay here, you have a bright future. So people around me were kind of pushing me to stay here, and then he started to introduce me to other drivers. I started to work with them and then I started to introduce two other drivers.

Speaker 1:

I started to work with them and then I started to work with other fighters inside ATT with my friend, because he was there too and then ended up right now I'm still here Sounds like no one wanted you to leave, but you know, you're actually, in a way, this is the quintessential, you know sort of American story of you just show up from another country and, before you know it, you're super successful. Everybody knows who you are and I think it's fascinating that you work with groups of athletes that are that, in a way, are completely different race car drivers and fighters. Now I want to explain a little bit for particularly for the audience that loves training, how you approach race car driving and I know this is mainly an mma podcast, that today with you but I want to hear about race car driving training versus mma training, what is similar and what is noticeably different.

Speaker 2:

Okay, first of all, my approach. When I look at an athlete, I try to understand the sport right. So MMA and racing is an individual sport. They are pushed to the limits every single moment in their competition. Okay, fighters, uh, they can get punched, kicked. Uh, take down, get to me for 15 or 25 minutes.

Speaker 2:

Race car drivers they have to be well fit to race an hour and a half, two hours, or even almost three hours if you talk about in the 500 over 300 miles per hour, uh, passing like this from the the wall, risking their lives. So they need to be concentrate sitting on the car, driving their best and at the same time, their heartbeat goes up to 180 sitting on the car. That's amazing, right, the stress around. And I trying to cross back.

Speaker 2:

So a few years ago I used to take fighters and drivers to sometimes work out together and it was so impressive how they exchange experience, how the drivers has to be concentrated, has to train their mind using mental training, mental techniques, uh, visualization, uh reaction training and at the same time, fighters they have their aggressivity, they have their their uh desire to to take somebody out, right. So this was kind of very interesting moments that I could experience as a professional, exchanging their experience, and some of them they are really good friends of the drivers that I train and it's super nice because they talk about it, they change ideas, it's nice.

Speaker 1:

Exchange ideas. What do you think from a purely a fitness standpoint, that race car drivers what it should be emphasized most for them in particular Because, like you said, um, they can't make a mistake or they crash and they can die, so it has to be basically a mistake free uh uh event for them. But, like you said, their heart rate is crazy high even though they're sitting and obviously there's a lot of mental stress. So, from just a conditioning standpoint, what is there anything that you would focus on for them?

Speaker 2:

I always trying to uh, even if the, if the racing or or mma I, I always try to respect the individuality and have the personal feedback right. So for the drivers, they have to be strong enough to support the g-forces on their bodies. So neck core, shoulders, grip. So their arms need to be strong to handle the cars, their reaction. So I need to adapt some strategies mixing during their training. So I always try to let them prepare uh with that and addressing the specific muscles, like I said. But even if I don't mention legs, example uh, there was one point back in the day that one of the drivers told me coach, uh, just for you know, my engineer came to me and said like the car, the car from next year, I will have to be strong enough to break uh because the, the brake are heavier than the one now. So what's a good feedback for me? Because I need to work on their leg strength. Also because they need to break uh for 10 times during a lap for sometimes like 50 laps, 40 laps, 30 laps.

Speaker 2:

So there's a lot and example. Just to give an example, there was one female this year competing and her track trainer came to me and said like coach, I might need your help. And I said, like, what's wrong? He said, like, like, my driver cannot uh turn the wheel, uh, because she has no strength for that and she needs to slow down to the point that she's able to turn the wheel. Interesting, so this is affecting, uh, her performance and and the the team performance. So there's some particular things people don't realize that needs to be done and you have to do it. If you look at the racing guys, they do cycling a lot. Some of them they do triathlon and running, and then the strength training I love to and running and then the strength training. So it's amazing. I love to be around them. It's an amazing experience and an opportunity to be with them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's super cool, that's so cool.

Speaker 2:

It's not about racing, but here's a funny story. This ticket here is I work with this kid. We started. He's six years old. He was six years old so he told me once I will win the nationals and I will represent the US and the world and the world will be in Brazil, so you need to start to teach me in Portuguese. So I look at him and I said do your part and I do my part and I will go with you to the world. So this is the ticket. He came to me, his dad called me and said like hey, man, you made a promise, so right now you have to do it, because he just won the nationals and right now he's 16 years old.

Speaker 2:

He lives in Italy. Actually, he's here. He will train after here. He's in a Red Bull driver's school year. He will train after here. Uh, he's in a red bull uh driver school. Wow, awesome. So that that's great to be part of the journey. That's. This is the most. This is the most for me. This is the most uh passion I have about it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah tony, do you have any comments? No, just amazing. No, um, I do think we underrate the physical abilities that those drivers need. To Everton's point. But just to show you the influence of brain and tension and stress on the human body yes, they're statically utilizing those muscles, so the blood demand is pretty great, right, because they're racing for an hour and a half. But you talk about how much influence mindset, mental stress, tension and focus have on the human body.

Speaker 3:

You're running a heart rate up to $1.80 when technically, the peripheral demands are not that great right. So it's an incredible mental sport. I mean, the cognitive requirements are huge and it's just cool to see how much influence the brain in and of itself has to the periphery, where you can get a heart rate to 180 beats per minute. Now, I'm not saying those guys are not working, they are working. As Everton just alluded to, you've got static tension on the body, essentially for two and a half, three hours, and you have to be able to move. But I I didn't even know that that heart rate could go up to 180 beats per minute while in that car. So, um, that gives us a good lesson in psychophysiology, boy. Tension, it's mental stress, runs it all.

Speaker 2:

it's crazy because the feedback after some races like specifically the Indy 500, which is insane, like the way that they drive and the stress around the feedback from them it's quite like impressed, because some of them they say like I don't want to do this anymore, but then next year they do it. They go out out, completely out, zero energy, they're just out.

Speaker 1:

I would imagine after that you just want to sleep for a week. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

I bet so yeah.

Speaker 1:

Hey, everton, for the casual fan of mixed martial arts, um, there's been an explosion of different organizations that promote fights and you've worked with ufc game bread um at sound in south florida game bred with Masvidal right. Yeah, pfl Ryzen Bare Knuckle. Fc One FC. Could you tell the casual fan because I see all of these organizations and promotions and other than UFC, because that's what I watch the most what are those other organizations and what niche are they trying to get?

Speaker 2:

uh, as compared to the UFC, Okay, so, uh, for me, uh, the UFC obviously is the the main uh organization, but there's some organization and trying to, to, to, to get close to the UFC, building something different like PFL. They they do the tournament, the UFC, building something different like PFL. They do the tournament, the million-dollar tournament, which for us, as a professional, it's crazy because the guys need to do four fights in a year, fighting for the. Not even in a year because it starts in March and finishes in October, so it's crazy. Deal with injuries and training camp, so they basically stayed the whole year in camp. So some guys they do back-to-back tournaments three times tournament. So it's crazy. Then you have like PFL bought Bellator, so they kind of mix it up. Pfl bought Bellator, so they kind of mixed it up and they did something special like Champ vs Champ, which was great and, as a fan, like I said, it's amazing for the sport. And then you have like the One FC in Asia, you have Ryzen in Japan. There are different organizations, different type of rules, but at the end of the day, as many organizations, we have more opportunities for the fighters because the UFC they have a lot of their hosts and to make fights for everyone and MMA.

Speaker 2:

For me. I used to have this, this uh phrase the mma is the most uh amateur professional sport I know and people say, like why you tell that? Because they are professional, yeah, but it's different like uh, nfl or soccer or soccer or NBA, because the fighters sometimes I know UFC fighters. They used to work in the construction and train for the UFC fight because they need to make a living, exactly. So this is something sad when you go into the sport, because they do everything they can to get their dreams and if you have more opportunity for them, it's amazing. It's like soccer in Brazil Everybody wants to be Neymar, but come on, we know what's going to happen. But I can't say this to the young people, because they have their dreams and who knows who. They will be right, but it's very hard.

Speaker 1:

So if you were to remove, let's say, the stars of MMA, let's take UFC, the people that the average casual fan knows the name, and instead take 100 fighters who are trying to get into the UFC. Are these guys poor?

Speaker 2:

If you go for depends how many fights they do. Example if they make let's talk about numbers If they make like 50-50, right, 50 for show up and 50 if they win. But let's say the guy didn't win, so he made 50,000. But he got injured and he fought just one time in a year. So if you take the tax, if you take the manager, maybe he can't afford even his, the, the, his rental apartment or training.

Speaker 2:

So it's sad because people don't, don't, don't realize, because people see, like Connor Jones, like the, the, the, the high standard guys, but to get there it's a hard path yeah, you're absolutely right everything and you know you gave a great analogy.

Speaker 3:

Like marab, uh, davis, really marab worked work construction up until a couple years ago, right until he made the top 10 and got in there and started getting more fights and then and, by the way, 50 and 50 is pretty good for the guys just coming in.

Speaker 3:

They're not even getting that. So even if they're at 25 or 30 and 30, and they got three fights a year and let's say they win them all, what's that? A buck 80 after taxes, after three or four coaches, after paying for your meal, your food, you didn't make that much money. Man, it's not easy. Climbing the ladder is really tough for a lot of these young men and women.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it's hard to keep and this is something for me, impress me, because there's some guys I have an honor to work and they have an amazing story Like being in construction working one year and the other year became a PFL champion winning a million dollars. There's something like it has to happen, right?

Speaker 3:

right Yep. They're all great stories too, you're right, like Olympic stories almost yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and you know it's interesting. You've stories almost yeah, yeah, and you know it's interesting. You've mentioned that, the names you know, the connors, mcgregors, the john jones of the world yeah, they're the ones who make a lot of money. No one realizes that the majority of fighters are actually. They're busting their butt just trying to make it um and and what's funny, tony, you see that in bodybuilding they get their ifbb pro card. Oh, I'm a professional bodybuilder. Well, no, you're not. You're losing money on food, on drugs.

Speaker 3:

It costs you 20 grand minimum just to go in and show yeah.

Speaker 1:

You're making no money. The idea that you call yourself professional it's always astounded me. There's nothing professional about bodybuilding other than the few guys and girls who make. You know who are the, the guys at the top who are well known. But but that's like all sports. I mean, let's face it, even in track and field, who makes money? The top track guy, you know if you get the, the guy who's ranked 50th. It's like does anyone even know who's ranked 50th in the 100 meter dash? Nobody knows. Probably nobody cares.

Speaker 2:

When I had the opportunity to talk about this, sometimes comes a lot of histories in my mind. Like just came out one girl. She got to the UFC. She was from I don't have 100%, but she was from Dagestan. Maybe she needs to fight and she tore her ACL. She didn't debut in the UFC, so she has no money to do the surgery. Her doctor, which is my friend, called me and said hey, can you work around, because she needs to just go to the fight. Fight doesn't matter the result, and then we can use the insurance. So can you work around? I said, like 100%. I didn't think about science, I didn't think about strategies, I just said like I will do it. She did. She submit the opponent in the first round, right away. She got the bonus for the submission.

Speaker 1:

With a torn.

Speaker 2:

ACL yes. And then she went back to the gym and I said, like okay, right now you're going to do the surgery and let's start from zero. She said like coach, you know what? I want to do? Another fight, because I felt great, can you work with that? I said like come on, really can you just go and fix what is what is broken? And she did. She went to the fight, she won again and then she did the surgery.

Speaker 3:

So you know that's amazing, that's I mean. It's a great point, like you don't to joey, to everton's point these guys, if you don't get hurt in the cage, you ain't getting, then it's out of your pocket, man, that's crazy, yeah and people don't realize that because people see, like I said, mcgregoror.

Speaker 2:

But if you watch his documentary you're going to know that he was in a tough spot too, but he made it yeah, because, uh, hey, you don't fight, you don't eat.

Speaker 1:

I mean, yeah, although mcgregor, he could eat whatever he wants at this point. Um, hey, um, sticking to the, the evolution of strength and conditioning for fighters. Um, if you go back, tony, you might know the year of what years this would be. If you go back to, I think, the late 1980s or 90s, I don don't quite remember, but Evander Holyfield was the first boxer to implement weight training.

Speaker 3:

With Lee Haney.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yes, Before that, boxers they do road work and then they spar, they hit the bag, whatever, whatever. So, wow, evander Holyfield implemented weight training. Fast forward to now. I think everybody realizes the importance of resistance training. Fast forward to now. I think everybody realizes the importance of resistance training. Do you have a specific philosophy in terms of? So let's take weight classes where anything but heavyweight, so you have to make weight In terms of resistance training, not wanting to put on lean body mass because it might move them up a weight class, but still training them for power and strength. So how do you approach that?

Speaker 2:

Okay, I always like to say there's two different situations, right In my case, because I can't compare myself and the work that I have to do to other strength trainers, because I represent a team and being part of the team and being part of the team, I need to understand, I need to respect the whole team schedule and I have my own schedule fitted inside the team schedule and I have to deal with that.

Speaker 2:

So, and I've been doing this over a decade it's different than, uh, it's different that if you, if you are isolated strength training, you're not inside the team because you can mix it up times and differences like different days and stuff like that. So, being said that, uh, I, I always try to separate off camp and training camp, right, but, uh, most of the time we can't deal with that because I know the UFC champion has off camp because he will fight when he and the event decide to put him to fight. But the guy who wants to make it in the sport, he needs to be ready anytime. It can be one week, it can be two weeks, it can be in the sport. He needs to be ready anytime. It can be one week can be two weeks, can be in the same day we saw we saw in ufc, um, the guy who just received a call and said, like I hear I'm here in vegas, I'm ready, so put me in. He was sitting on the couch and he received a call and he went down and he delivered, like you know so, but he did that because he was getting prepared and ready and he could perform three round fight. So my question when I look at myself sitting on the computer and building their programs, I say like I need to make them ready and I'm not locked to an exercise, to a method. I always trying to think what is better for the fighter.

Speaker 2:

But talking about method, one of the methods I've been using, probably over a decade or two, is a complex and contrast training. It's one of the methods I found out could keep working the strength and build their power and not put that much stress on them and also they could perform well. So, like I said, respecting the whole schedule, I have two or three times to work per week with the fighters and I have to deal with that. But also we have okay, coach, I have my shoulders bothering me, I have my lower back bothering me, I have my knee, so, uh, I need to work around.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I have the, the basic ideas, uh, when I do my, my, my programs. But I just remember now j, which is an amazing coach and a good friend he mentioned Tetris when he was speaking with you guys and sometimes we have to do that. We have to just adjust here and there and mixing up and use our experience to change things. But, if I can say, a method that I like to use and I've been using a lot, is a complex and contrast training.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I love what you said there, because a lot of people that haven't been, you know, heavily invested in the fight world ever don't understand the complexities that we're trying to negotiate. The season is not as predictable like a soccer slash, football or American football season or baseball season. To your point, when they're climbing the ladder, they can get a call on two weeks. So you want to keep all their qualities prepared. I don't want to say dangerous, but you may not be optimizing their capacity if you're just sitting there lifting heavy weights for six weeks and at any given time they're going to need some power, they're going to need agility, right, so it is, and you, you top that off with all the injuries and the other two or three training sessions per day, and it becomes really this is what I do like about it it's very challenging to know exactly how much to do and when, and what to do and when.

Speaker 3:

It's a beautiful mixture of scientific principles, but using the art like you said, hey, I can't put too much on them now. I want to keep them fresh. They come in. You're supposed to do lower body, a lower body complex, that day, and then they roll. Somebody heel hooked them to practice before. Now their ankle is the same size as their thigh, you know. So there's so much to negotiate in in strength and conditioning for MMA. It is really really challenging.

Speaker 2:

But keeping the fighter ready is what you stated so well and and it's, it's uh, it's hard, uh, but at the same time it's it's an amazing opportunity to exactly to work yourself with them, to get into them. I always say to them uh, uh, I need to get, don't know them, they need to trust me and I need to trust on them. And most of the time I do step back on my area to let them push harder on the specific training, because we know they will have to perform fighting, not lifting or not jumping or not throwing right.

Speaker 2:

So just to give an example, if I have a lightweight guy or flyweight guy, we know they are naturally faster than the heavyweight guys, right. But some guys they have no power on their punching, they don't have like strength enough. So if I have time, I look at myself and I say like okay, okay, how can I help this fighter to perform better? I know he can throw a hundred punches but no knockdown, he can't, he can't hurt anybody. So if I, if I understand that every single technique comes from a muscle action and if I understand the strategies and the biomechanics, the physics around their bodies and build something that can increase their strength and transfer for the sport, I will do it. I will focus on that and try to help their performance.

Speaker 2:

I remember now I helped a few fighters. I worked with a few fighters who decided to move up the division. One of them, she was double division champion. When she decided to move up, the first reaction for myself and I knew the girl she was fighting because the girl is from my city and I knew the girl has crazy punch power, strength, the girl is a monster talking about body right. So I said to her we have time, so let's build your strength. Have time, so let's build your strength. So back at the day she was benching like 215, wait, wait, which girl?

Speaker 2:

the one in brazil no, no, no, uh, amanda, amanda, okay. So she was, she was like, and she was so happy seeing the way, the progress and I said like, okay, right now it's time for us to change this whole volume and the load we are putting you through and let's change for the power training and we start to mix it up, the power training, and we start to mix it up. But after the fight, she told me, when Cyborg got me in the first punch, I thought like, whoa, is that everything that you have for me? So wait for me. And when she did her punch, when she punched her, she kind of like lost her balance and then the fight went, everybody knows.

Speaker 2:

So my point in this situation was like, as a professional, did I help with her, uh, on this whole training camp for that specific situation? Yes, okay, I'm happy with that. The most important thing is her star needs to shine and then the light is going to brighten our side and everything is okay. So that's for me, it's important. So, like I said, the flyweight sometimes they don't have strength enough, so how can I adjust here and there to help them, right, that's awesome yeah.

Speaker 2:

I don't want to have a guy who throws 200 punches in a fight and don't don't drop anybody. I prefer to have a guy who take who, who throws 10 punches and drop the guy, yeah, twice well, you know, just a personal, personal opinion, right?

Speaker 3:

well, I bet you you go. I bet you the coaches over there agree with you.

Speaker 2:

So the skilled coaches, and the opposite is true, because if you have a heavyweight too slow, you can try to build some agility, some strategies that can help them with that. So it's all about analyzing each fighter and also each opponent. Because, for example, let's talk about you're going to fight a grappler that doesn't want to trade punches with you. You know the guy is going to grapple with you, so if you don't drop the guy, the guy is going to hold you at some point. So you need to be ready to support the pressure, to exchange the isometrics with the guy without losing your power, because sometimes you watch fights that the guy holds their opponent against the cage for five minutes and the second round the guy has no power.

Speaker 3:

Nothing, yep, they lose it. Yeah, and then you see like okay, this guy's done you know, I've always said and you summed it up beautifully they all need the same qualities, but they don't all possess the same qualities equally. If we can help them a little bit to strengthen the weakness and enhance their strength more, we've done a nice job and you've always done that. Um, I've watched you for years and you do it beautifully.

Speaker 2:

And like for me, I don't think like I'm a small part of the whole engine. Yeah Right, I see sometimes around strength trainers with a YouTube channel behind. How are you going to train somebody with 10 people recording you because you want to sell your programs, like, come on, really, just your results, do the noise, yep. And then you I'm not against sell yourself, but like, and when you're in this situation you kind of lose yourself a little, I agree, and you want to push the guy to the limit and also like create or trying to reinvent the wheel like, hey, tony, wasn't it, uh, walter payton who said if you're good, you tell other people, but if you're great, they tell you.

Speaker 3:

They tell you you don't have to say anything you know everything I know that's what I've always loved about the way you work, my friend, it's it's quality first. Do do my job first. No theater, just good work. You know, occasionally you share a great exercise. Some of the good work that you're doing with the team over there and numerous, I mean everybody should just know in case they don't. Everton's worked with numerous world champs over there at American Top Team. It's a great organization, but I've always loved it. He's serious about you could tell right away and just from your education. We're about making the person better too, not just making them a better athlete.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I do have everything. I'm sorry.

Speaker 3:

No, no, just to say that I've watched him for years. Beautiful work all the time. No theater. He doesn't have steven spielberg coming in.

Speaker 2:

Every time he's training somebody to film a new version of the workout like just just a quick because, first of all, I respect all of you and I do follow you guys for a long time also and and all the research and and everything, and like talking about this example, a few weeks ago I heard somebody talking about the complex training and saying like oh, it's a new training method, blah, blah.

Speaker 3:

I was like new training really back in the 80s people were performing that like really actually I think milo of ancient greece was doing complex training hey, um, where we?

Speaker 1:

we don't have much time left, but I wanted to tackle something as a fight fan, boxing fan. When I was a kid, my dad was a huge boxing fan. He would take us again. This is back in the 70s, Tony, if you remember. If you wanted to watch a fight, it had to be on closed circuit TV. So you had to go somewhere, pay, and he would take me and my brothers. So we'd go to Washington DC into a theater where it's all middle-aged men except my dad and his kids, and we would watch Muhammad Ali fight, whomever I mean it was great.

Speaker 3:

I remember it well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so I was always fascinated by the history of boxing. And then I will segue to my question for you, everton history of boxing. And then I will segue to my question for you, everton. But I remember reading history of boxing and that the last bare knuckle fight, bare knuckle champion was who remember John L Sullivan back in the 1890s? And I thought, wow, fighting bare knuckle that's got to be, it's got to be a hell of a lot harder than fighting with gloves. And I never thought, I never thought bare knuckle fighting would ever come back. Until it came back and I'm like, wow, this is, this is fascinating. So my question to you is you know, sure, fighting is fighting, but fighting without gloves is different than fighting with gloves. So what do you tell these fighters? And I noticed here you work with Diago Alves. He was the bare knuckle, uh, fc2 2021 champion. Yeah, um, what are the things they got to worry about? That's different than, obviously, fighting with gloves in mma.

Speaker 2:

So uh, and I work also with junior who just uh won the heavyweight gangbred bare knuckle champion.

Speaker 2:

uh, what did what they? They told me about? They said like, because I asked them hey, what is the difference? Because in one punch you can break your hand and then you're gonna damage your performance because of that. And they said, first of all, they do that. And they said like, first of all, they, they do uh, pretty good, uh, the, the wrap and the protection. Yes, they do, but they, as a fighter, they kind of pace themselves to don't throw any kind of punches, because if they they, they hit here or even on the forehead, they can break their hand. So they try to be more accurate, more specific on their target.

Speaker 2:

And Junior told me something. He was like not only for me but for my opponent you feel that especially in the beginning, when you have like your 100% body capacity, they kind of preserve themselves and use a different strategy. Throw punches, yeah, but like not 100%, yeah, and they don't need, because any punch you can cut also. So when something like this happen, then they go 100% and finish what they started. But his feedback was kind of different. He said like we need to aware that we can break our hands. So we kind of like base ourself in a different way. Use a little bit more kicks, knees, change a little bit the stretches without like go hard all the time, but as soon as the first punch goes hard, they just go.

Speaker 1:

How often do they fracture their hands?

Speaker 2:

Junior didn't fracture Tiago, he did. Yeah, junior didn't. Junior said he was fine the fight, the fight was tough yeah, that's interesting.

Speaker 1:

It's, uh, you know the to me watching bare knuckle. When I watch it, it's you can tell that they're a little hesitant. You can't just throw a haymaker and hope you knock someone out, because you'll you'll break something, um, and in a way it favors the fighters that are I call them, point fighters you make contact, you make contact. You make contact versus the one punch knockout artist, because you may not knock them out and you may just break your hand. So, but yeah, I think it's fascinating. I think all these different fight organizations and way of fighting are fascinating, because this is the stuff that I, as a fan, wanted to see back when it was just boxing. It's like, wow, so you can kick bare knuckle, grapple.

Speaker 2:

I think it's all cool, I think it's all cool and and Junior was telling me that, uh, he was uh trying to set up the right, uh moment, so going for the bodies, uh, and then, uh, when he sees the opportunity. He told me I was using a lot of my jab to hurt my opponent and then, when I saw the opportunity, I threw my bomb. It's not like with the gloves that you can go 10 times without being worried. It's fascinating.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, before I let you go, I do want to announce and I want to invite you, everton, myself, tony Corey Peacock we're organizing the ISSN NSU Fight Camp. It's October 19th. Seminars on fighting and whatnot. It's at Nova Southeastern University. It is on a Saturday. It's October 19th, something for you. You might be interested or you might not. It'd be great to have you.

Speaker 1:

We're doing a roundtable discussion from 1230 to 130. Lunch will be served for people who are attending and it's really just for coaches and athletes to talk about their philosophy of fighting, how they fight and things like that. I know Dr Peacock. He's going to bring some fighters. I don't know, tony, if you're going to have any guys or girls you work with, but it's just one of those things where we're just exchanging information. It'll be a fun time. So, everton, if you want to show up, let me know. You don't have to register. I'll register you myself and it would just be great to get feedback from all because, let's face it, south florida south florida is a great place. It's better than anywhere in the country.

Speaker 3:

So, yeah, having you there would be awesome. Yeah, we have it all now right. Yeah, we'd love to have you everton.

Speaker 2:

If you can make it that day, it it will be my honor, but I don't know if I will be here because, uh, we have uh rena fejera fighting against francis ingano in october 19. Oh, it's a huge, heavyweight battle. So I don't know if I go, okay, because when I can go to be there, because for myself, it's some memories that I will take for me forever.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

If I can be with them. It's amazing, like it's something that stays here and here forever. So I don't know if I will, but if I'm here for sure I will go.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely, and I want to make note to close it out. You are up. What is it? The MMA awards. You're one of the coaches of the year. So I think we all need to get out and let's put on a vote for Everton now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I am for the second year in a row and super happy with that. It's something that okay, I want the and win. The results will shine on us, but yeah, for sure, being recognized like that, it's amazing.

Speaker 1:

Good, Always good to be recognized by your peers. So, Everton, I want to thank you for being on the Sports Science Dudes. This has been a very fun conversation. And again October 19th if you can make it, that would be awesome. But if you don't make it, we know you're somewhere better and having more fun. So thanks a lot, Everton. Appreciate your time.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much for the opportunity from you guys, and I'm very happy to be here. We could stay for many hours. We could have like other other guys talking about many other different things, and it's amazing to to share experience with all you. Thank you so much for the respect. We'll see you soon. Everything, take care.