Sports Science Dudes

Episode 80 - Dr. Roman Fomin - Revolutionizing Athlete Performance Through the "Windows of Trainability" Concept at UFCPI

• Jose Antonio PhD

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Join us for an enlightening conversation with Dr. Roman Fomin, the Senior Director of Performance Science at UFC Performance Institute. With a fascinating journey from Moscow's neuromuscular physiology labs to the cutting-edge technology at the UFC PI, Dr. Foman shares his revolutionary "Windows of Trainability" concept.

Special Guest:
Roman N. Fomin, PhD

Title: Senior Director of Performance Science, UFC Performance Institute

Dr. Roman N. Fomin is a leading expert in sports physiology and sport science, with over two decades of experience dedicated to optimizing the performance of elite athletes, including Olympians and top-tier professional competitors. Since joining the UFC Performance Institute nearly seven years ago, he has been leading the Sport Science team, where he integrates cutting-edge science, advanced technology, and innovative methodologies to improve the health, well-being, and performance of UFC athletes.

Dr. Fomin is the architect of the 'Windows of Trainability' concept, a groundbreaking approach embedded in portable technology that he developed. This technology has been widely utilized by high-performance teams and athletes worldwide to maximize training efficiency and performance outcomes. Renowned for his expertise in physiological assessments and elite athlete monitoring, Dr. Fomin is also a dedicated mentor to professionals in the field, contributing to the ongoing evolution of high-performance sports globally.

 

 

About the Show

We cover all things related to sports science, nutrition, and performance. The Sports Science Dudes represent the opinions of the hosts and guests and are not the official opinions of the International Society of Sports Nutrition (ISSN), the Society for Sports Neuroscience, or Nova Southeastern University. The advice provided on this show should not be construed as medical advice and is purely an educational forum.

Hosted by Jose Antonio PhD

Dr. Antonio is the co-founder and CEO of the International Society of Sports Nutrition and the co-founder of the Society for Sports Neuroscience, www.issn.net. Dr. Antonio has over 120 peer-reviewed publications and 16 books and is a Professor at Nova Southeastern University, Davie, Florida in the Department of Health and Human Performance.

Twitter: @JoseAntonioPhD

Instagram: the_issn and supphd

Co-host Anthony Ricci EdD

Jose Antonio:

Welcome to the Sports Science Dudes. I'm your host, dr Jose Antonio, with my co-host, dr Tony Ricci. He's having technical issues. Hopefully he'll join us. You can find our podcast on Spotify, youtube, apple Podcasts and Rumble. Our special guest today is and I know I'm going to anglicize his name Roman Foman, phd. He is the Senior Director of Performance Science at UFC PI, ufc Performance Institute. Dr Foman is a leading expert in sports physiology and sports science, with over two decades of experience dedicated to optimizing the performance of elite athletes, including Olympians, top tier professional competitors. Since joining the UFC PI nearly seven years ago, he's been there the whole time. He's been leading the sports science team, where he integrates cutting edge science, advanced technology and innovative methodologies to improve the health, well-being and performance of UFC athletes.

Jose Antonio:

He's also the architect and this is something we're going to talk about what he calls Windows of Trainability concept, a groundbreaking approach embedded in portable technology that he developed. This technology has been widely utilized by high performance teams and athletes worldwide to maximize training efficiency and performance. So I'd like to welcome Dr Roman Foman to the Sport Science Dudes and, unless Tony figures out his technical difficulties, it'll be you and I, which is completely fine. Now, before we logged on sort of talking about your history, a lot of students will come to me and they'll see your position and they'll see Charles Stull and they'll see Duncan French, and because I teach exercise science majors, they always want to know.

Speaker 2:

Well, first of all, let me backtrack.

Jose Antonio:

They always want what they think are glamorous positions.

Jose Antonio:

Oh, I want to coach NFL football oh, I want to coach the USA soccer team. Oh, I want to work for the NBA. Oh, I want to coach the USA soccer team. Oh, I want to work for the NBA. Oh, I want to work for the UFC PI. How does one because UFC, pi, obviously everyone knows UFC, the UFC brand how does one get to that position where you are in and I know it's not glamorous because it's work, we all know it's work, work, work? But how do you get to that position where people, let's say, at UFC, even notices who you are?

Roman Fomin:

First, thank you for introduction and I really appreciate your invitation. I'm very glad to be on this podcast and, yeah, thank you so much. And thank you for this question. This question is not easy to answer.

Jose Antonio:

It's interesting how we define glamorous Well people think your job is glamorous because it has UFC in front of it.

Roman Fomin:

For sure there is a brand in front of it. For sure there is a brand. Also, ufc and MMA is a part of sport and sports industry, and sport and this is what I love is all about breaking barriers in human performance, setting up new records and do what nobody did before. So it's about accomplishments, results and performance, and this is what was my passion always Before. I was working with elite athletes from other sports, not necessarily related to combat sports. Now I'm working with MMA fighters and it's always for me, how can I help those athletes to do what nobody did before? So setting up a new bar and do almost what was previously impossible. And another thing, so let's put it this way, let's imagine a Roman Empire, colosseum, gladiators.

Jose Antonio:

Yeah.

Roman Fomin:

Yeah, people coming watching performance. Right what gladiators did in the past they fight and people get excited to watch this event. 2,000 years later, what we have? We come, we sit, we watch how fighters with no disrespect but fighters fight to each other and they perform, and we get excited. What can differentiate us living in this moment, in this period of time, versus gladiators and fans 2000 years ago?

Roman Fomin:

This is not necessarily a rhetorical question. I can answer Science. We can prepare athletes who can perform at their best during an event. On the same time, our methodology is systematic, is structured. We have nutrition, we have physical therapy, we have all of those puzzles and science and scientific method. What we use as a key tool for our decision-making process and what can help us to prepare top-level athletes who can set up new records and perform as nobody did before, can set up new records and perform as nobody did before and, on the same time, we can save them from, or at least prevent or avoid injuries, illness, overtraining and so on, and prolong their career. We can enjoy their performance for longer. This is, for me, what is glamorous and I dedicated and I dedicated whole my life to help athletes and coaches to really build new level athletes using science, using physiology and my expertise did you think you wanted to work at the UFC PI?

Jose Antonio:

Was it even on the radar or it just it was something that was more accidental, sort of right place at the right time you know the right people.

Roman Fomin:

Which is it? Actually, I was not thinking about UFC on that period of time of my life. Actually, I was thinking more about working in high tech because I have had already experience, pretty extensive experience, in research, academic area. I was a head of neuromuscular physiology laboratory in Moscow and I was working already with elite athletes, including Olympic teams. We supported them for um, preparation for olympic games and so on, and I was on that moment of my career. I was thinking I, I, I would like to develop actually technology or something like a tool, uh, that can help distribute my expertise and deliver my expertise to coaches, kind of automate certain knowledge and help athletes to get that information or let's call this like physiological feedback or information from their body and improve their training process and maximize their results. So I was thinking about connecting actually sports physiology with data science, with technology, with, if you want this word, sports engineering type of thing, and this is why I started working for high tech company on that note.

Jose Antonio:

Okay, let me ask you this. So training for the mixed martial arts, in my opinion, is the most difficult of all sports, mainly because you use all the energy systems. The skill sets are so different, whether you initially come in as a grappler, as a striker or whatnot, but you have to learn so many skill sets and also someone's trying to beat you up. So there's that aspect. If you take that sport, which is exceedingly complex, and let's take a simple sport like running, let's take distance running the average coach in distance running they look at mileage, they look at speed and really a lot of it is just based on. They ask them hey, how do you feel? So we can either ramp up your mileage, ramp up the intensity or decrease it. And then, as you get closer to a track meet or cross-country meet, you start tapering For a sport like that.

Jose Antonio:

What technologies do you think would be valuable? Because most, let's face it, most track and cross-country coaches just do it old school. They figure out OK, it seems like you could run 40 miles a week, you don't seem to get hurt. Okay, we're going to do X amount of high intensity interval training, x amount of hill training, et cetera, et cetera, whereas MMA much more complex, so many skill sets, the technology there versus the technology required in distance running. Could you comment on that?

Roman Fomin:

so it's, this question is really interesting yeah um, let me, let's me apply first physiological approach. Uh, to answer this question, so every single sport has specific demands and to be able to deliver the highest result possible, we have to build, develop and build sport-specific adaptations inside our body, including different systems muscular system, respiratory system, cardiac system and so on. So, basically, including different systems muscular system, respiratory system, cardiac system and so on. So basically, we are developing, we're not just improving functions, we develop sometimes new structures. For example, if we want to improve running outcome or results in running, we have to increase number of mitochondria and their density inside muscles, right? So without those adaptations, it will be very difficult to run marathon in around two hours. So therefore, versus like, if we compare running and mma, definitely mma has much more degrees of freedom, much more situations where you have to use quite complex adaptations across different systems. Plus, versus running, it is contact sport. So you are fighting against your opponent and sometimes you are getting strikes landed on your body, on your head and so on. So it's a contact sport. Different demand we have to develop those adaptations to be able to perform at the highest level. To perform at the highest level.

Roman Fomin:

So, and we have to have a tool, measurement tool that can track and help us monitor and track those adaptations. If I'm a coach and I'm working with you applying certain amount of load, I have to understand if my load is specific enough and cause those adaptations. If my load is actually beneficial, you can take that load, your body can respond adequately and produce desired adaptations and useful outcome. Or my load is actually is too high and body, instead of getting benefits, actually is going to suppress and inhibit those inputs or stimuli and will try to avoid and actually might get some harmful effects because my load is inadequate, too high volume or too high intensity and so on.

Roman Fomin:

So, therefore, technology what we will be using or tool supposed to allow us to measure those adaptations. This is why we have to first define what adaptations we're tracking and what physiological system and then apply adequate tool. So, as an example, heart rate monitor can be very useful and it is very useful too for runners, for MMA fighters, it is also useful that contribution of that system and their performance is probably not as high as for runners. Therefore, I would say let's put this word hashtag specificity. We have to consider specific use certain technologies because, yeah, of nature of sport.

Speaker 2:

So basically you guys yeah, so you're identifying the quality first and then a measurement tool accordingly, like, I think, in the cross-sectional analysis. You did a wonderful job with that Isolated the necessary qualities. Wonderful job with that, isolated the necessary qualities. Take a look at the qualities that maybe you know. You're looking for the commonalities or the norms, and then the tests can be assigned accordingly. We don't have an instrument per se that measures all the qualities, but you determine the qualities and then look at the appropriate testing right.

Roman Fomin:

Yeah, right, let me use one example. We developed our what we call UCPI energy systems profiling. Yeah, and all of those tests. They're very different. Like a classic approach, why not using treadmill? Why? Because treadmill is a running specific tool. So we're using air bike, which is more closer. I would say it's still non-sport specific. In terms of MMA, however, it is closer because upper body and lower body, they both contribute, and our athletes they're not running in the octagon with this particular pace right. So we're trying to kind of stimulate and put load during tests. What we do that will be closer to MMA or sports specific systems. So because we want to get response from those functional systems that contribute directly in their performance in the octagon, I mean so, and we're trying to remove that noise or filter that noise and avoid those tests that not kind of directly support our decision-making about sport-specific tests.

Jose Antonio:

With so many different technologies, though, how do you think, how do you filter out sort of the redundant noise? I mean? Because you I mean, let's say, you could measure everything if you wanted you could. I mean, you could go back to the east germans back in the 1970s. I remember as a kid watching video of them doing, uh, pricking the earlobe of east german swimmers to measure blood lactate, which is is something Americans were not doing. So there's a lot of things you can do, but with limited time and limited resources, you sort of have to. Well, actually, I don't know what you have to do, but I would think you sort of have to narrow it down. It's like, okay, these are like the most, the top three, most important technologies we can use. So what are your thoughts on that?

Roman Fomin:

most important technologies we can use. So what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, for sure, for sure. And we can differentiate. Laboratory-based technologies, for example. We have here Innovation Lab and we're using, I would say, pretty expensive technologies, so they are not accessible for regular people just because price. However, we can come with some light versions of those tests and where the technologies that can be used in, I would say in a very simple way, kind of on them, let's do those tests. On the budget, so there are.

Jose Antonio:

So what's the expensive version? What's the light version?

Roman Fomin:

Give me an example?

Jose Antonio:

I'm curious.

Roman Fomin:

Yeah, so as an example, in our laboratory, in the innovation lab, we're using the metabolic card, portable metabolic card, and that price is. I'm not sure if I should disclose that.

Jose Antonio:

Oh no, we just bought one.

Speaker 2:

We can disclose it. You don't have to Roman.

Jose Antonio:

If there's something that's a lot cheaper and works just as well, we want it.

Roman Fomin:

Yes, exactly, exactly, and actually I can give you some possible solutions for that.

Roman Fomin:

So it allows us to see like systematic, me systemic metabolism, right, like global metabolic response, without actually specifying what systems contributing to that response, because what we measure is like oxygen consumption and CO2 removal at this point, like with the mask and so on. However, we want to see local muscular metabolism as well and there are some tools and I can use example, one of the example like near-infra-respiroscopy method, that can be used to see like local, muscular, peripheral for all metabolism of oxygen saturation. And we found that some of responses on systemic level they're matching or moving to the same direction versus muscle, like muscles and systemic metabolism, they respond in the same direction and actually we can highlight, like even specific time period during our, for example, view to max protocol or like oh, we can identify threshold pretty accurately and then our coaches can use that technology and that tool for training purpose without using metabolic cart, which is quite expensive. So this is one of the examples how to identify thresholds, different thresholds, metabolic thresholds, using Chipper technology.

Jose Antonio:

Yeah, could you elaborate a little bit on what you call the windows of trainability, that concept, windows of trainability.

Roman Fomin:

Sure, actually, it's an interesting story going back to 2013, beginning of 2014. And there is actually a handbook for coaches. I wrote with my co-author about Windows of Trainability. We were thinking about how can we not just develop technology that allow coaches and athletes to measure and assess their readiness for upcoming training without actually that complex equipment, laboratory equipment. We were thinking how to make it in the simple way possible, using simple language like strength, power, endurance, communicating using technology with coaches, with athletes, removing that complexity, that always science using, and talk using mobile application with coaches and athletes and, on the same time, deliver very useful physiological information about their recovery, their readiness or upcoming session and helping them to manage training load, not just based on guessing or based on their subjective feeling, which is also valuable, for sure, but it is, by definition, subjective. So we were trying to kind of bring objectivity and develop technology and tools that can help them say more confidently okay, I'm recovered, I can do whatever I'm planning to do, or I'm not fully recovered. Probably it's a good idea to reduce amount of load.

Roman Fomin:

And I used physiological approach here and my expertise in physiology and I use the word, I would say, adaptation, adaptability, because when we talk about training. It's all about adaptability. I'm trying to improve my adaptability that allow me to perform more efficiently and produce higher output, and did what I was unable to do before, and I just converted this adaptability to trainability. Basically, this is my ability to receive training load in a certain volume and intensity that just process this training load and develop those useful adaptations in my body. And what I'm targeting to develop what can improve my performance. And so I just converted this adaptability to trainability.

Roman Fomin:

And Windows actually came from the concept of optimal period of time. So, for example, you're recovered, you are ready to perform. You are not recovered in a particular moment of time, you are not ready to perform. So therefore, okay, let's talk about windows, windows of trainability or windows of adaptability. This is optimal, or I would say ideal period of time when your body has completed all recovery processes, all adaptations, has been built and your body is ready for new stimuli. So it's if we're talking about nutrition, this is pretty much the same concept optimal windows yes exactly yeah, because conceptually it's awesome.

Speaker 2:

I mean, if that it's readiness is is vital because because, while challenging to measure, we are to some extent guessing, and half the time we're waiting for performance to decline to find out it's too late, right, and athletes are going to give you a subjective feeling or override that subjective feeling. So anything we could do to objectively quantify it, in my view, is of great value. I understand Roman. There are struggles with that. It's not easy to look at what markers or what measurables will help us dictate that, but I mean that's extremely valuable if it can be done in any capacity, because we essentially are guessing, especially with crazy training volumes of load these fighters undergo, right.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, exactly in concept, it's awesome and previously athletes.

Roman Fomin:

They have had like a structured static training program plan, for example, for entire year, like, okay, this is like what I'm planning to do, but where is actual feedback from the body? Right? So, for example, you applied certain amount of volume or intensity, but your body is not capable to build those adaptations on time and you want to put something on the top, expecting higher output, but your body is in a different state. So therefore, instead of making those adjustments based on actual conversation with your body, you are just following static training program, which is not ideal. So in the, we were targeting autonomic nervous system and cardiac system on that period of time as foundational systems. If that system is not recovered, we can't really talk about other systems, because this is like your foundation and this is why we developed that technology, based on understanding how your autonomic regulation works, your heart, your kind of cardiac system, your basic foundational systems. And, yeah, we, we want to make sure athletes get this information and their coaches on time and they will be able to make right decision.

Roman Fomin:

Okay, my heart is recovered, I can do endurance type of work. My, for example, whatever my nervous system, my brain is not fully recovered. I still can do endurance type of work, but it's probably not the best idea to do complex coordination type of work, yeah, skill type of work. So one system is ready and available for training and another system is not ready or partially ready or not available at all depends. So we actually first time I would say in the world we develop technology that allowed to answer those questions so more or less accurately. I'm not saying we're pretending to be like a gold standard, but still still yeah, no, but it's quite valuable.

Speaker 2:

And skeletal muscle rate of recovery is not consistent with nervous system, so that's not a good indicator in and of itself either, right, I mean.

Roman Fomin:

Exactly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Jose Antonio:

Let me ask you this when you're dealing with high-end athletes or elite athletes and you see this, and you might see this across the board where there are those who are just they have so much talent that they may be how should I put this they may be less inclined to listen to a coach. You know, you see it in baseball, I see it in football. You're like I'm so good and these obviously are young males usually you're dealing with. They're so good that you know what the hell do you know? You're just giving me all this science bs and so that what I'm trying to get to the question of are ufc athletes. So these are pros. Are they even interested in this data? Because they, I'm sure they can't interpret it unless you sort of you know, I guess, feed it to them. But do they really care about this data? I know that's sort of a broad question, but I'm always interested. You know, how do athletes accept this stuff? Obviously we're trying to help them, but, um, what are your, what are your thoughts on that?

Roman Fomin:

uh, so we have super users, athletes who are not just interested but they are diving in all details. They're so engaged, so involved, they're following our recommendations and so on. We have also athletes who are getting this information. They're using this information, working with coaches when we provide that information to their teams, and they're involved as well. So we have athletes who are less interested and they might get certain pieces of information they want to use or they don't want to use at all.

Roman Fomin:

So we have, like a token, using scientific language, like a normal distribution curve. So across all categories we have athletes. So across all categories we have athletes. We're trying to use the language that can help them to understand complex science and we're trying to connect those findings after testing here with their performance and what is what is happening or might be happening in the octagon in a real fight scenario. So because as soon as those two things get connected, for athletes and for us actually it's much easier to comprehend why metric is important, why this is not important and so on.

Roman Fomin:

So it's like how I explain, for example, these energy systems profiling. We have three tests in the lab with complex scientific equipment, with metabolic cards, with heart rate monitors and neuroinfrared spectroscopy and so on. But I'm using this kind of let's say, kind of scenario. Okay, we have three tests, and one test is designed to assess and measure your electrical engine. Like Tesla, you go from zero to 100 miles pretty quick. You know fast, super fast. Okay, this is your first energy system and we have tests for that six. Second, maximal effort test on air bike. Second is like your gasoline, like energy system number two scientifically, like an aerobic glycolytic system. Technically it has an aerobic component as well, but that's a different story.

Roman Fomin:

That's not complicated for him. And this is gasoline, so you can still produce high intensity, not as high as Tesla, but you can sustain certain period of time, not very long, at that maximal level. And third one is your diesel. Is your diesel car? This is a VO2 max test, kind of longer test and that engine is responsible for your recovery ability between rounds and so on. So electrical, gasoline, diesel, three, three engines, and your body is so beautiful, it has three of those.

Roman Fomin:

And whole idea is how you are using those three engines and how fast you can switch between those, because you might fight in the octagon and you need your tesla engine, electrical engine. Then you go on the ground, you change your position. It's about wrestling. You have to quickly shift, quickly change your energy system to be able to produce still high output but using different energy system, or you have to go back, go to clinch or whatever you're planning to do. So you always it's not just about what type of energy system you're using, it's about how fast you can switch those energy systems, involve them, use them to the maximal level, then switch to another system or working in a hybrid mode and deliver maximal output. And for them it's like oh, it makes sense. Okay, when I finish my first round, I need to recover fast and I have one minute. Of course, I have to use my diesel, my oxidative aerobic system, and I want to activate that system as fast as possible to be able to produce faster recovery and then return back and so on.

Speaker 2:

So well, this is how we're trying to engage those are great analogies and, as professors and teachers, those are really good. I mean, they really help the, the fighter, um, you know, digest what you're saying there, and I think it would motivate them to want to, to want to know the numbers. I also think you just created a whole new racing event you get out of the Tesla car into a gas car and in a diesel truck.

Roman Fomin:

Exactly.

Jose Antonio:

Roman this you know. What's interesting about that is there are guys and I remember talking to cory peacock about this um, he'll do maxio2 tests on some of these guys and they're quite aerobically fit. I mean, their numbers are high and whatnot. Yet when they get into a fight they gas out real quickly. So there's something else going on. They certainly have the aerobic capacity, the oxidative capacity, but they get tired so easily.

Jose Antonio:

What do you tell that fighter? It's like come on, you got to last at least five rounds. You can't die on the second or third round Physiologically. How do you explain that to the fighter?

Roman Fomin:

Love this question. I love this question. This is why we stopped doing VO2max test on the treadmill, right? Yeah so because you might be amazing on the treadmill, but you're not preparing for track and field event. You're not a candidate for a US Olympic, candidate for US Olympic team in track and field. You're not preparing for running event, right. You're preparing for performance. That is actually very well defined it can be either 15 minutes or 25 minutes. Five minutes each round, one minute rest. So therefore, you have to kind of train your energy systems around that format. Also, we developed here our own methodology, trying to improve science. As always, we never stop.

Roman Fomin:

So let's say you have three energy systems. Let's say you have three energy systems. However, every single engine has four different characteristics Power, efficiency, capacity and let's call this flexibility or mobility. Flexibility highly likely, we're still trying to figure it out, but it's more flexibility. So what is power? Power is like maximal amount of energy or work you produce using that energy system. Maximal, always 100%, 100%, maximal. If we're talking about maximal power, then capacity is like total amount of energy available in that particular engine and efficiency is like how much work or performance you can produce using this amount of available energy. This is rate. It's related to rate. So you have to be efficient and efficiency is hashtag efficiency.

Roman Fomin:

Efficiency is a key, not necessarily capacity, not necessarily power. Efficiency is a key for mma fighters because their performance is not about with all respect, and I will be first guy in the room who will say energy systems are important, but they have to be able. Their brain is supposed to be available during fight. They have to process acidic, toxic environment and they overstimulate their physiology. Their brain will be changing their focus from external to internal environment, trying to manage that current physiological demand inside the body. So therefore their external function, executive function, will be kind of locked and they might miss whatever like punch, or they cannot hear what their coach saying, or they cannot like track opponent and respond quickly.

Roman Fomin:

So therefore we're helping them to build that physical, physiological component, elevate, making sure they always can function optimally on the cognitive function. And there is another component flexibility of every single energy system. This is how fast you can activate and, which is very important, also deactivate that system. Because if you always and we have those fighters you're focusing on, for example, high-intensity, anaerobic, glycolytic type of work, always you develop those adaptations and what your body will be using first easiest available adaptations. So therefore you start using those kind of mechanism because they're available but side effect they're pretty expensive for the body, so you have to pay for that mechanism but those are fun to watch.

Roman Fomin:

Yes, yes, it's fun. Yeah, so from performance of view, we're trying to avoid when the fighter's like I cannot move my arms or legs, I cannot breathe, and so on. So we are focusing on each mechanism power, efficiency, capacity and flexibility around every energy system. And plus, we have this hybrid mode. I mentioned this before.

Roman Fomin:

When people saying as an example, uh, this is anaerobic glycolytic work, I'm saying that does not exist in real life. Why we never use anaerobic glycolytic type of mechanism in isolation from aerobic system. More accurately, we have to say yes, it's primarily that mechanism is involved, right? However, aerobic system is involved as well. It's just taking a bit longer period of time to activate that system. So I will give you example uh, we were getting in our one minute all out maximal test in the lab In about 40 seconds. Vo2 peak is always above 90% of their VO2 max. So in around 40 seconds from the beginning of one minute all-out test. So it takes 40 seconds to bring your aerobic system from, let's say, baseline to 90% plus of your true VO2max. We can actually pretty easily predict what your VO2max will be based on that test. 40 seconds, so in first 20 seconds.

Roman Fomin:

Obviously, an aerobic glycolytic mechanism is dominating. However, on the same time, on the background, aerobic system is involved in significant, yeah, exactly. So this is why it's kind of, I would say difficult to say we our energy systems on a global, systematic level. They're working in isolation. They always interact, they're always working in hybrid mode and you will be efficient fighter if you can develop that kind of hybrid mode interaction between those systems and you can switch them depends on actual current demand during the fight. Yeah, and why? Uh? Why you might get uh tired, uh, even your view to max is high in on the running, because as soon as you're in the fight, different functional systems with different physiological systems, like you're using different muscles. Those muscles work in a different type of contractions and energy systems. What you are using will be working differently versus that test. This is why I mentioned that test is not sport specific and so, yeah, unless you're running away from your opponent, I mean.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that's really good stuff, roman. This is excellent. This did some valuable, valuable insights, and particularly just the fact that the best fighter is the one who can transition. Obviously you want to increase the capacity and the efficiency of each, but we've known that. But, uh, but not easy to do, right? Not easy to get a fighter to train each of those elements and have optimal performance at each level. And by an outside of that fighter being calm and relaxed, you can almost throw all of those energy systems out the window if they're too anxious, right? I mean exactly the whole mindset component to that too.

Roman Fomin:

so exactly, exactly. And uh, yeah, uh, sometimes athletes they didn't even start perform but their heart rate is going up because of psychological component, as an example, right, so anticipation of fight is coming or walk out or like other other things. So that system is already cardiac system and autonomic regulation of the heart, right uh, is overloaded, overstimulated. It's working already close to like 100. So it's not about efficiency anymore, because that system is going to use all biological money and spend everything what you might have in your pocket.

Roman Fomin:

So therefore, I would say efficiency is a key for MMA fighters to perform and deliver expected result. They might have great power, but again, what about reproducibility? How many times you can reproduce that power with the same highest level If you are not efficient, if you cannot recover between those repetitions? So it will be one, two, three times and oops and oops and yeah. So therefore, for coaches, it's very important to first understand what adaptations they're trying to build and develop in what systems, including energy systems, and it's not just about view to max and definitely not so. It's about all systems in MMA.

Jose Antonio:

Yeah, that's why training for the fight sports or combat sports is so, so complex. I mean, it's like you said, it's not like running on a treadmill. Put it this way Runners, the way you test them, is actually the way they train, so it's perfect for runners.

Roman Fomin:

Exactly so running specific yeah so.

Jose Antonio:

I want to be respectful of your time. Just a couple more questions and if Tony has any additional ones, number one from the time you came to the United States and worked with UFC PI, what do you think are the most meaningful changes in terms of use of technology for mandatory athletes? So that would be, let's say, over the last 20 years, last 20 years.

Roman Fomin:

So that would be, let's say, over the last 20 years. Last 20 years and then the last one. This is more for the students that Tony and I teach what career tips you have for young sports scientists who want to. When I was involved in developing technology for athletes, we were struggling around connectivity between device and phone and it was like, oh, I have to spend another 10 minutes, 15 minutes to reconnect my device and so on. So connectivity became much better.

Roman Fomin:

So therefore, as a user, it's like, hey, this is awesome, it's so great that technology kind of connect with the phone without bothering me, like minimizing certain destructions. Also, passive aspect around technology, like passive data collection. For example, there are smart rings you just put on the finger and like, hey, it's on my finger as my normal ring and it's not bothering me at all in terms of asking some questions or it's collecting data 24-7 automatically. This is an amazing component that the less technology bothers you the better, and it was massive progress in the last 20 years because before it was like, oh, nightmare, I would say, in terms of complexity.

Jose Antonio:

It's interesting you mentioned that Technology doesn't bother you. Sorry, Tony, to interrupt Glucose monitoring devices.

Roman Fomin:

Is that of use? That definitely bothers you. It is invasive, still invasive right. This component I would say I don't like much. I will talk about consumer or athlete, so let's separate non-invasive and invasive right so that technology still needs improvement. It's supposed to be non-invasive because I don't want to have needles or something like that inside me when I do training sparring session and so on.

Roman Fomin:

So no, absolutely not. Good call, I would say some technologies, not all. Also, how conclusions or recommendations currently coming from technology, from technologies in terms of interacting with me or with athletes, it's kind of it allow us to read, to use like natural human language, to read these messages and interact like like with humans, which is also it's not just like oh, just number with, without providing a valuable information. So this is what I like and obviously, because we're living in kind of in the big data era and ei is with us and predictive analytics and so on, so definitely uh versus so definitely versus beginning of 2000, we have much more valuable data and information that we can use and technology actually use, just because they collected a massive amount of data, big progress, data, um, big progress.

Roman Fomin:

However, I would say, some of technologies they still trying to dominate from engineering point of view. So engineers decide okay, this is the trend for the future. For example, let's take virtual reality and I can say whatever apple, uh, vision, uh, pro, whatever it's like, hey, you, you have to live in virtual reality more and more and more. From my point of view, I completely disagree. I don't think it's. It is a future, because we're still humans, we have to move out from outside and use your 650 muscles and sensory systems enjoy your life, so that doesn't mean that you should avoid completely technology.

Roman Fomin:

I'm talking just about how to filter those.

Jose Antonio:

Oh, and career tips for young sports scientists. Career tips, yeah.

Roman Fomin:

I would say number one career tip, as we live in a very interesting time where we use and I'm an example of that actually multiple different competencies and pieces of expertise, like sports science. So many different puzzles are in these disciplines how I'm making decision, I'm using physiology, biomechanics, I'm using nutrition, I'm using theory and methodology of training, I'm using my expertise as an athlete, and so on data science, engineering and so on. Try to first understand what competences, skills, knowledge you really need. Okay, uh, to become what you want to uh become, if it's if you will become a sports scientist, you definitely need physiological disciplines, for sure data science, sports engineering skills and so on and dive very deep on those, and I would say I don't think you can become a sports scientist without understanding physiology. It might help, yeah, so take those classes for sure.

Roman Fomin:

Hey, Tony, any final thoughts for Roman Any questions.

Speaker 2:

Just quickly. You talked about connectivity. Well, I had connectivity issues, so I know the the importance, so I got in late. I apologize, um, I we definitely, joey. We got to do a part two to this because this is outstanding. We gotta have you back, roman. This is fantastic. One thing that makes me happy is seeing the great work that you guys do. You know, I know the whole team you work so hard and I see more and more fighters embracing it, so that makes me really happy too. You guys, that should be your reward and your payoff. The other thing, too, just in closing, I think we should have new fight categories of the night the glyc $50,000 bonus for the glycolytic fighter, 25,000 for the aerobic fighter. I think you started a whole new category 100.

Roman Fomin:

I totally support that.

Speaker 2:

No this is fantastic. We appreciate your time and I'd love love to have you back, because there's so much more we can dive into it's. It's great work you're doing, my friend.

Roman Fomin:

Thank you very much. I really appreciate it, Tony. Thank you for the invitation, Tony and Jose.

Jose Antonio:

Yeah, Roman, and I'll let Charles and Duncan know that we're hosting the ISSN NSU Fight Camp. Tony's one of the speakers, so I'm going to make sure you guys at least get the invitation, Whether or not you show up. That's okay, we're going to. We're going to have fun. I know Dr Peacock will be bringing some of his fighters in, as well as some other, because South Florida, as you're well aware, has a lot of of some of the best coaches in the business.

Speaker 2:

So it's October 19th.

Jose Antonio:

It's held on our campus, so, roman, if you happen to show up, you know we'll treat you to a good sushi dinner. Get you some beer, we'll have some fun.

Roman Fomin:

Accept it Approved. Thank you so much.

Jose Antonio:

Thanks for being on the Sports Science News, much appreciated. Thanks, roman.