Sports Science Dudes

Episode 99 - Alyssa Parten PhD, Antonella Schwarz PhD - Women Aren't Small Men, But Goals Determine Strategies (Not Sex).

• Jose Antonio PhD

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Strong opinions, stronger evidence. We take the much-quoted “women are not small men” and separate what’s useful from what’s been hijacked by marketing, then rebuild it with training principles that actually deliver results. With Dr. Alyssa Parten and Dr. Antonella Schwartz, we get honest about where women’s physiology matters, where it doesn’t.

We dive into the truth behind “lift heavy.” Heavy is relative to your experience, and strength lives on a spectrum. You’ll hear how to use RPE and reps in reserve to auto-regulate around stress and menstrual symptoms, why progressive overload outperforms rigid cycle-based templates, and how new lifters can thrive across broad rep ranges. We also call out the supplement aisle: creatine isn’t gendered, protein targets matter more than gender, and micronutrient needs like iron, vitamin D, calcium, and folate should be guided by individual needs.

For more information on our guests.

Alyssa Parten PhD https://education.ua.edu/directory/alyssa-parten/ 

Antonella Schwarz PhD https://www.barry.edu/en/c-vitae/professors/antonella-v-schwarz 

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Sports Science Cubs. I'm your host, Dr. Antonio. And I have two special guests for me today. Dr. Alyssa Partenti is at the University of Alabama, the Deep South, and even in the farther south, Antonella Schwartz. She is a new professor at Barrie University. Just got her PhD. A year ago. A year ago, yeah. So movement and PhDs. Alyssa, when did you get your PhD?

SPEAKER_03:

March.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, March. Oh, this year. Yeah. Oh, wow. So yeah, brand new. Brand new. Okay. Children. Yeah, you guys are scientific children. You're not quite at the adult stage for science. Okay, today, first I want to preface this by saying uh, Antonella, you've been working, you are taking the lead on a common questions and misconceptions paper dealing with female athlete nutrition training, yada yada yada. And it addresses some of the more common myths, I guess, misconceptions, as it relates to women and training and nutrition. And I want to start with one that's really more of a tagline. And I want your thoughts on it, and don't hold back, either of you. And I've seen this quite frequently. And the tagline is women are not small men. So, other than the obvious fact that on average, you're right, women are smaller than men, but what is it trying to convey? And do you agree with what it's trying to convey? Take it away. Either of you.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, I will start us off and then I'll pass the baton to AP, but I understand the slogan and I I believe it's true. It's definitely true. Women are not small men. I mean, physiologically, biologically, the whole nine yards, right? We are just not small men. There are a lot of differences, hormonal differences, anything else. That's my dog in the back, by the way.

SPEAKER_00:

I know.

SPEAKER_02:

I was like, um, and I mean, there are some historical biases in like the research, right? Like a lot of it's been done in men and kind of just like blanketed towards women. So the world is kind of moving towards, hey, let's not maybe use all these recommendations that were only once tested in men to also kind of blanket statement and give women recommendations. And there's so much merit to that, and that's necessary. Um, I think my issue with it is that people use it as like a like license to ignore just like core training principles and core training science. Um, and they use it as like they weaponize it and they flip it and turn it to something that maybe it's not, and they use it to sell different training programs specific to women or supplements, like you know, those like creatines that come in the pink bottles and whatnot, all that crazy stuff. Um, so they use it and they weaponize it. They make like training and nutrition for women so much more maybe complex than it needs to be. And there's a big difference between like what's optimal and what works. And the majority of women don't need maybe what's optimal, they just need to start with what works. And so I think it's true. It's definitely true. I mean, there's no I think that it is true. Women are not small men, but I think it depends how you take that tagline and then go use it.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, uh short, uh a quick story. When we were in Italy for ISSN Italy, uh Sean Arendt and Michelle Arndt were going through the uh exhibit hall. And um, so no one knows, I mean, the Italians don't know who we are. So they went up to a booth that sold Creatine, and he was explaining to Michelle Arendt how this is the female creatine. Yeah, so apparently there is female creatine and male creatine. So I just thought I would educate you on what's going on in Italy.

SPEAKER_02:

So Yeah, thank you, thank you. And yeah, see, that's like, I mean, women don't need everything completely tailored and different. We do need a decent amount of things, and there are ways to tailor it to better fit a female depending on their needs. And we might have some different needs at different times of the year, different times of the month, and different times of our like lifespan, whether we're, you know, pregnant, not pregnant, like there are definitely different needs that women have compared to men. We are different. We're not just small men, but um I do have an issue with it being weaponized and used to sell female-specific things that we might not need, like cycle sinking or, you know, all these crazy blanket statements that totally ignore just like our core training principles that we know apply to both males and females, and that the literature has explored for many, many years and shown us like, hey, the differences aren't large enough to warrant female specific training for all individual cases, absolutely, but not for all.

SPEAKER_00:

So great points, Alyssa. I want to bring up uh something that Antonella referred to in terms of obviously there are core principles of training that apply to everyone. I mean, if you want to become a faster runner, you gotta run. If you want to get stronger, you gotta lift. Um you can address part of what Antonella said, but also address, and this is sort of the other tagline I hear a lot, um, particularly for perimenopause women. You gotta lift heavy shit. Meaning if you don't lift heavy shit, it's not ideal or good. Um comment on that.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I mean, I think it you know goes back to one thing that Antonella mentioned, where it's like, what are you going to do consistently? Or it might have been um you that had mentioned that. Like, what are you going to actually perform consistently? And strength is on a continuum, especially if you're not familiar with strength training, um, you can improve strength just by having some sort of external load. So whether it's within that typical repetition range of one to six reps or more than that, if you're fresh into resistance training or strength training, you're gonna see improvements in strength. Now, the more experience you get, if you're wanting to improve your maximal strength capacity, then yeah, maybe you want to become a little bit more specific as time goes on. But I think in terms of perimenopausal women or just women in general who are needing to improve just that neuromuscular skill or muscle hypertrophy so that we can avoid or mitigate sarcopenia osteoporosis as the years go on, than just having some sort of uh formal structured strength training. Um, so I'm not too like hung up on it falling within these specific repetition ranges as long as they are resistance training and they're doing so um to some level of difficulty. Like I typically use like RPE whenever it comes to that population, because also most women who have not had much experience with resistance training, especially when you start getting into the midlife women, are not gonna do a one rep max test so that you can really apply percentage-based training. So just having some level of difficulty, whether it be like an RPE of seven to eight or a reps in reserve of like a two to three, I think you can achieve a lot of the benefits of strength training with a pretty broad scope.

SPEAKER_00:

Now you both are pretty avid resistance trainer. You love resistance training. So do you ever one rep max yourself, whether it's on a bench or squat? You do.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh yeah. The other day, not the other day, probably like earlier this year, I was run rep maxing my back squat. And so I set up like the safety pins and everything. And I failed on like I was trying to go for like, I wanted to see how many times I could squat 225, which the squat is my worst lift. And I think I failed on my actual second, I think my second or my third rep, which therefore made it my one RM. But the guy, some dude at the gym, of course, walked by. I actually told Alyssa this. He walked by, he's like, It's okay to ask for help. Like if you need a spotter, I'm like, I don't need a spotter. I don't need you hugging me from behind. Like, I don't want you to spot me. I can that's what the pins are for, and that's why I set them up. But that was actually did you say that to him?

SPEAKER_00:

I don't want you hugging me from behind. Is it no?

SPEAKER_02:

I didn't say that, but I just looked at him. I'm like, I don't need help.

SPEAKER_00:

If you just said that, that would be hilarious.

SPEAKER_02:

I know, I know, but yes, I do want one RM and my deadlift too. I was my summer goal was to deadlift 300 pounds or 315. I didn't get 315, I got 300, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Pretty damn good. If you need to go to Alessa, though.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, dude, I'm trying to get back to it. I'm still I feel I've I'm one year postpartum, but it always just takes me a hot minute, even though I like train all the way through my pregnancies and like experience really awesome like strength gains in my pregnancy. Postpartum, even getting right back into it has been a strike, quite a struggle to like get back to my my maxes. Um, but but that was also probably this time more because I effed up my foot earlier this year, and that was a whole process. So we'll blame that instead of postpartum, but we're trying.

SPEAKER_00:

So, what are your uh well you you competed in powerlifting, Alyssa, right? Right. So your well your PRs and squat and bench were what then dead?

SPEAKER_03:

Pre-pregnancy, my squat best was 292 and a half pounds. During pregnancy, I hit my best bench ever, which was 195. And then and my like meat best, I think, is like 187.5. Um, and then my best deadlift is 375.

SPEAKER_00:

Are you stronger than your husband?

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

That's so cute. Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Antonel, does your husband lift anymore? He must be sick of doing all that baseball training.

SPEAKER_02:

No, he does lift to lift. I feel like he didn't lift a lot as a baseball player, which is so crazy because I feel like now they do, but when he was in college, it wasn't as big of a thing. Um but no, he's definitely more so into lifting down. And like he he was back in like the wave of strength and conditioning, or at least what he was around, where they didn't believe that overhead pressing was valuable for baseball players and benching wasn't valuable for baseball players. So he never got a chance to like do those to like the extreme. And so now he's like, I want to bench this and I want to bench that. And like he's like a he's lifting like a bodybuilder these days.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, he wants to look pretty now, huh?

SPEAKER_02:

He wants to look pretty now. Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So address this. This is uh these are sort of the common questions that women would ask, and women who don't have a science background in any of this. Um, if they come to you for advice on training, you know, is there and you you've addressed this a little bit, but sort of expound on it. Female specific diets, female-specific supplements, female-specific training. If there's if none of that exists, say it doesn't exist. Or, you know, is there any data at all on any of those three?

SPEAKER_02:

You want to go first, AP, since I went first last time?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I mean, okay, so let's start with sex-specific. I'll leave supplements to use, Antonella.

unknown:

Fair.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, fair, fair. So sex-specific training, no, like what we're really kind of finding is that the principles hold true. That if you are progressive overloading in your training, whether that be from a resistance training standpoint or uh endurance training standpoint, whatever, that that that principle holds true. Now, some women experience symptoms from their menstrual cycle that may make them feel more fatigued or maybe they have pain, cramps, etc., at which point we just use the, I don't know if this would be considered a principle, but I'm gonna make it one. The principle of auto-regulation, you know? And so, but the thing that I see when I think about that, I'm like, it's not just the menstrual cycle, um, which is very independent based on an individual's experience, which also can be different cycle to cycle. So it's not just your menstrual cycle that may lead you to need to auto-regulate, but from both a male and female perspective, we just experience different stressors in our day-to-day life that may require us to auto-regulate. So I don't see it as anything any different, it's just another variable for women to consider. Um, and so how you would autoregulate is if you're in some phase of your menstrual cycle that you do feel a little off, a little more fatigued, you don't feel like you have as great of a capacity, then you can still hit whatever your like RPE is. You might just have to adjust by a few pounds, but it might not be the same between individuals. And that's where we have an issue with predetermined changes based on the menstrual cycle. Because some females feel worse when they're on their menses, when they're bleeding, whereas others feel really strong when they're bleeding. Some feel worse in that late half of their midluteal phase when your quote unquote PMS symptoms might be worse, and some might feel it more early or early luteal phase. So it just has to be based on the individual. So that's where I think that you know the evidence doesn't show us any statistical differences in strength or muscle protein synthesis or metabolism between menstrual cycle phases, but that doesn't discredit the individual's experience. It's just that individual to individual is so different and cycle to cycle can be so different that we don't find it statistically when we're looking at a population of women. So that just goes back to using these principles that are really solid and really good guides or um keys whenever you are programming for whatever your fitness goals are. So that's where I'm at there. Go ahead. Yes, yeah, I think the whole supplement thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Um the whole idea that when when companies market to women, you know, I guess the adage is, you know, you know, uh, what is it? What do they call it? Pink it and shrink it. It's just put it in a pink box and just lower the dose.

SPEAKER_03:

But is there any and raise the price?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, women are the primary purchasers in a household, so so they will they will pay more. Now is there any data on any, you know, sort of the typical nutrients or micronutrients like calcium, maybe iron, maybe wherever women might need more or they should be more cognizant of it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I would say stuff like the iron, calcium, vitamin D, the folate, um, where women are at like a higher risk of low availability of these, especially if you're active. But again, that can also be true for men, depending on so many other variables and so many other things to consider. So at the end of the day, I would say that maybe women could be more cognizant of these things, but it like you really shouldn't supplement with anything extra unless you know for sure via blood work or something that you're deficient. So I think being mindful and knowing, like, hey, I'm an active woman, I could fall low in X, Y, Z. Let's audit that and then go from there. But the same principle applies to men. So yes, maybe for women, um, they the diet or dietary needs might be like slightly tweaked, but I don't think they need to be completely overhauled or overwritten just because hey, I'm a woman, so I need extra X, Y, Z, right? I mean again, just not predetermined changes, just not predetermined changes because again, every female is so different. And so um, I loved the uh paper that Scott covered at ISSN Columbia on like creatine for uh what was it, perimenopausal or post-menopausal women versus resistance training. And at the end of the day, like resistance training was what actually moved the needle, and even creatine alone did it. And so while I, yeah, of course I'm an advocate for all women to take creatine and whatnot, do I think that everybody needs to be taking every supplement under the sun or that you're deficient in XYZ? So take this, take that, just guessing blindly. Not really. I think the main, the main driver of just like female health and fitness is the resistance training portion. And that that paper kind of like I love that paper because it really drove that home. Like, yeah, creatine as a supplement, great for women, but what did move the needle in bone mineral density was actual resistance training. So do women need special supplements? I mean, on a case-by-case basis, maybe depending on what you're deficient or not in. But I don't think that you should just be like, oh, you're a woman, you woman, you need to take creatine, you need to take iron, you need to take calcium. I mean, sure, getting these things checked and audited would make sense, but not just a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00:

But if you're what if you're a trained female and you're trying to get stronger, what would you recommend both of you? Trying to get stronger. That's your goal. You just you want to get your one RM, maybe bump it up five pounds, ten pounds or something.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously your creatine, like we've seen some good data promoting strength increases, lean body mass with creatine supplementation, but in conjunction with resistance training. So I think that's the main driver. Um, obviously, adequate protein intake, and if that's difficult via just diet, dietary need or just the diet, then consuming a protein supplement in order to meet those needs. Um can you think of anything else, Alyssa? Trying to think.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, so my kind of take with creatine is there's so much data on it that's really positive, and we're continuing to learn more and more about it, and it continues to not let us down. And so my thing with taking creatine is, you know, I think women are gonna see a lot of improvements in their strength just by resistance training and progressive overload alone for a really long time. I think it's gonna be a long time before you start to see plateaus if your training is intelligent and progresses. But there's not a whole lot of risks to taking creatine, yet we're finding benefit after benefit. And I think that, you know, even new science is leading to perhaps additional benefits outside of strength improvements. So my thing is, I'm like, why not?

SPEAKER_00:

No, actually, the question, yeah. The question I ask when I give uh my sort of one seminar per semester for my sports nutrition class, I do one just on creatine. And the sort of the last slide or second to the last slide is the wrong question to ask is why should why should you take it? I say the better question to ask is what's the compelling reason not to take it? That's what you need to ask because you're right. Yeah, there's so much positive data on it. There's over 600 studies. The safety data is, I mean, is beyond reproach. So, you know, creatine, five grams a day. Although you talk to Darren Candell, you know, if you want to get 20. Yeah, he's like, if you want 20 grams to get in your brain, I'm like, oh my god, I I I'm I'm sticking to my low dose, which I've been doing since before you guys were born. Um, actually, I don't know where uh I don't know when Alyssa was born, but this would be during Bill Plant. When Bill Plint was president, I started taking creatine. So that was like nine, he was president 1992 to 2000. So so Alyssa uh Antonella was like my I didn't know that I was born whenever he became president. There you go. So I've been on it forever, but you know, Darren's like 20 grams. I'm like, I ain't doing 20 grams.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, see, that's when you ask the compelling question of why not? Well, it's not good for my wallet. That's why not.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it's also a lot. See, I'm uh I prefer capsules over powder, and I'm not gonna consume like you know, 15 capsules of creatine. It's just crazy. Um, this is crazy. So, but I'm a big fan of creatine, also protein, one gram per pound or 2.2 grams per kilo. Um, I do have a question, and that's why I wish Cassie was on this, but it has to do, and I guess it would this would be based on your personal experience in terms of diets and how men and women approach food differently. Men, I mean, I think men take a very utilitarian approach to diet, saying, Well, I'm gonna eat this because I think it will help me get to this goal. Whereas I think women tend to have more of an emotional, I guess, connection with food. And so it changes their perception of what they should eat. So I'm not sure if that makes any sense, but I'm hoping you can you can comment on it.

SPEAKER_03:

I think this stems from our earlier years, though. I don't think I wonder if um if we were kind of like taught about food earlier on in like that sort of manner, like men are, if that wouldn't change how women really kind of have that emotional like pool with food. Because I know Antonella can speak on this too. Like, I mean, women tend to have really early years, like the certain sort of societal pressure to look a certain way. And so that starts that emotional relationship with food, and it takes so many years to really get past that. And I think we're lucky that we were thrust almost on accident into like this world. Um, because really, when I started to get away from that emotional pool with food was when I started to train for performance. I was never no longer trying to train to look a certain way, and I think earlier on males train for performance, and so they do view food as a way to make that those goals happen sooner. Um, because I mean, even still, like even in men, like we're gonna see more um risk for eating disorders when they are really hyper focused on their physique. So um, yeah, I just I wonder how much that is female related as opposed to like just the world we end up growing up in.

SPEAKER_00:

Meaning focused on aesthetics versus performance.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Yeah. You never hear about a high school girl bulking, you know, for foot foot for football, but you hear about high school boys bulking all the time. They don't care how much weight they put on, but you would never ever hear a high school girl bulking for X, Y, Z sport. It just is not a cool thing to do these days, right? It's like society frowns upon women looking a certain way, and it's so sad what the standards are. So I do think that a lot of the societal pressures deter women from eating how they should for performance, and um therefore, you know, ruining our performance sometimes, especially as young adults, how when we like underfuel and then we can get into the talk about like reds and the female Athey Triad and all that fun stuff. But like that is, I would say, driven highly by societal pressures, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00:

On how women should look or Yeah, how women should look.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, I feel like sometimes we just neglect how we could potentially feel or perform based off of the way we should look, and therefore the other stuff takes a back burner, and we just maybe never reach our full potential because we're so focused on you know, oh, I shouldn't gain this weight, I shouldn't look this way, I shouldn't eat this much. X, y, z.

SPEAKER_00:

Who do you think is more critical of how you look? Men or women? Women, women, so women are women's perception.

SPEAKER_03:

Most of the time and with a lot of questions, like even if you ask like questions about like who is like less accepting of women in the workplace or like not wanting women to succeed, women.

SPEAKER_00:

See, guys are like your best fans.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, you know, so you should have experiences in strength and conditioning and coaching and academia with my male colleagues.

SPEAKER_00:

Actually, I I want a little short story. One of my uh colleagues, um, she works in a psychology department and um and she collaborates with the exercise science department quite a bit. And um she said, and I guess this was 10 years ago when first start when we first met and started collaborating. She said, you know what? I noticed that the guys in exercise science treat me as an equal, but the guys in psychology don't. And I'm I think and I want you guys to comment on this. I think because a lot of guys in exercise science come from a background of exercise or sports, and to them, it's if you're good, we like you. We sort of like when you compete in a sport. Hey, if you're good, we'll we'll put you on your team. We don't care who you are, what you look like. And it may not be the same in other fields because I mean, if you go outside of an exercise science department, how many people actually exercise among the faculty? I mean, do you do any of them? Exercise. So, what do you think of that?

SPEAKER_02:

I think that makes a total sense. Yeah, that makes sense. And we were talking about this at ISSN this past summer, how um the new wave of this exercise science, uh like academia scientist crowd, there is it's so female dominated. Remember, we were talking about the dementia games. We were saying how all of the older adults there I say you guys are older. Um, we're old, don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_00:

Antonelle, you can say it wrong.

SPEAKER_02:

Would be men, and then all of the judges of this said event would be because you were like, Oh, only assistant professors, young people in academia, young PhDs, and we were naming them off. We're like, wait, they're all women, or the majority of them at least are women. And so um, I do find that I get treated pretty equally amongst men and women, and sometimes even even better. I mean, than men sometimes in our field. And I don't know maybe exactly why, but I think it has definitely to do with like kind of what you said. Like I don't know, women are maybe not viewed upon viewed up viewed less in our field simply because we kind of all have the same like barrier of entry, like, hey, you exercise, I exercise, like you're good, I'm good. Like, I don't know, but I do know that that's not the experience for everybody, though. So again, I'm careful to make a blanket statement. That's simply my personal experience.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. It's it's I always say a personal observation can't be wrong because it's your personal observation. Um yeah, and uh when we do when I host the poor PhD student dinner, which you know Antonella keeps attending, even though she's a PhD. Um it's almost all women, it's like 15 women and three guys who are getting PhDs. So unless I didn't know you at the time, we would have invited you to the poor PhD student dinner, but you already have a PhD.

SPEAKER_03:

I'll just tell I'll just cater, I'll bring food.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, I want to bring up a topic which a lot of people don't want to touch, but I touch it. Maybe that's why I get in trouble. It has to do with men pretending to be women competing in women's sports. Uh they call them trans women, but they're men. They're mad. Let's be real. Well, recently on X, there was a post about a man who won the world's, she won the strong, well, she it was a strong woman contest, but it was a dude who won it. And the woman who got second place said, This is bullshit. Can we go? And it's on video. First, I want your thoughts on that in general, the topic of men competing in women's sports, and also the fact that they actually stripped the guy. They found out, oh, this guy's he's a dude. What's he doing in the contest for world's strongest woman? Um, so they stripped them, and the woman who got second actually has first now. So the general idea of men saying they're women participating in women's sports.

SPEAKER_02:

Just so you know, I I hate the idea, and I'm sure I know that you have very strong opinions on the matter. Um, and I would say that speaking in like scientific terms, right? Like biology and biological sex, um we like we stated at the beginning of this podcast, like women are not small men, right? There are differences and there are physiological differences. And one of my favorite papers that came out recently was a paper by Rafa Rafello. It was a systematic review, meta-analysis on like gaining, um it was hypertrophy. I think I don't know if they touched strength, I can't remember, but it was all about hypertrophy and basically like the difference between men and women and how relatively um you can gain at a similar rate. However, at baseline, it's different. And so baseline, men start with more mass. And then that was kind of like, hey, okay, I mean, there is some decent evidence to show like men are different than women and women are different than men. And so just based off of science and biology, do I think that trans athletes belong in like what they identify as category of sport? No, I think there's a big difference, and I think that your baseline does matter and what you were born as does matter, and I think that's what you should compete in, or there should be potentially a category for um people who are trans athletes, and that's amazing. I think they belong in sport as well. I would never advocate for anybody to not belong in sport because sport's changed my life and so many people I know is life, and it's an awesome way to exercise and promote you know, movement and physical activity. But I do think that there is a potential advantage, and it is unfair to be born a biological male, transition to a female, and then compete in a female category that is um not fair. And so I do think that they, you know, potentially need their own category and That would be great because they do belong in sport, just maybe not in their non-biological sex category.

SPEAKER_00:

Technically, there is that category. There is an open category. It's called the male category.

SPEAKER_02:

Jose, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, anyone can compete in the male category if they want. I mean, it's it's open.

SPEAKER_02:

This is true. Well, I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

But I don't think that there should be talk even in like powerlifting to have a um, I think it's like, you know, a separate um category, like if that is something that they want to compete in. But I mean, I agree, like there's baseline differences, and I think, you know, there's been some argument to suggest that if they're on hormone therapy, that it's gonna even the playing field, and like how many people are actually doing that? You know, like that guy was not doing that, you can tell. And a majority of them are not. But I think that, you know, unfortunately, there's just a lot of taking advantage of the climate that we're in. And um, yeah, so I mean, I completely agree with Antonella. I'm gonna get canceled for this, but like I just find it really interesting how people will advocate for women's sports, but then be okay with that. It doesn't make sense to me.

SPEAKER_00:

You're absolutely right, because it it doesn't make sense at all. Now, I think what's interesting is that in sports, I mean, the male advantage is huge. That's why you have male and female categories, but also people forget there are age group categories. Someone who's 50 can't compete with someone who's 20. That's why you have age group categories. And then you look at weight lifting, powerlifting, the fight sports, there are weight categories. I mean, a flyweight in UFC is gonna have no chance against a heavyweight. So obviously, there are advantages that are within the sex, and also there are advantages between sexes. Um, but it's not just the sex difference, it's the weight difference, it's the age difference. So all of those things are, you know, we're trying to make sports competitive but fair. And, you know, allowing men in women's categories just, I mean, it never made sense to me. Um, but there is an open category, as I said, Antonella, it is the male category. Anyone could be in the male category. Now, I think in cycling, they tried creating a third category, and no one went to that third category. They're like, nope, we don't want a third category.

SPEAKER_03:

That just further shows that they're just trying to take advantage of right.

SPEAKER_00:

They are. I mean, and and so many, and I've the counterargument is that well, it's not really that many places that a male has taken. Right, and here's why it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_03:

I understand why that matters.

SPEAKER_00:

Let's say you're in fourth place and you deserve third place. That could have meant a college scholarship, it could mean a whole lot of things. So it affects it has a downstream effect that's harmful to women, and so um, but I think the tide is turning and we're starting to see people like, oh, you mean there are biological differences? Oh my god, I did not know that. So I remember giving a seminar on sex differences in athletic performance. I won't say where because it would well, it would tell you who possibly got mad at me. But basically, this woman stood up and said, and I paraphrase, what the hell was that about? And I'm thinking, wait, this entire seminar was on sex differences on everything. Like it was just sex differences, and I covered athletic performance, and she was just really mad, and I was like, Wow, what why are you mad? Uh it was just puzzling to me that anyone would be mad about data because all I presented was just data. Um but, anyways, you know, I I'm glad you guys, you know, you're you're all you're sort of in line with me, you know, not falling for the BS. Um I did want to, excuse me, Antonella. I know you are doing a study in magnesium, and I wanted to get that out because uh I know I think you wanted to even do it over Christmas break, which is kind of crazy, I think.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. Tell me okay. Yes, we're collecting data starting um December 1st, and we're doing it, we're collecting the pre-data the first two weeks of December, and the post data will be like mid to late January, because it's a six-week intervention. You'll basically come in, do some testing at our lab here in Miami. Um, you'll get the magnesium and get to take it home over break, and you'll take it religiously, like a good adherent participant for six weeks, and then come back after break for the post-testing. Again in the lab, each session is just like 90 minutes in the lab, two separate sessions, free magnesium. You get paid, you get a gift card, and you'll help us out.

SPEAKER_00:

You're doing cognitive testing?

SPEAKER_02:

Cognitive testing and some force plate, some counter movement jumps.

SPEAKER_00:

So, what are the cognitive tests so that the audience knows what you're doing?

SPEAKER_02:

Flanker, there's a dual back, um, it's called like a dual back something. I forgot what it's called, honestly. Um, incongruent, troop, and PFTT. Basically looking at yeah, basically.

SPEAKER_00:

Those will make your brain tired.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's the point, is we are testing we know that this magnesium L3 and A has these kind of cognitive, kind of mental physical uh performance benefits, but usually we see these in depleted populations or older populations, not really in healthy populations. And what we have access to is a lot of healthy, middle-aged or young adult students. So what we're doing is we're testing healthy people, we're just inducing this mental fatigue and looking at the change um pre-post at each pre-post, if that makes sense. Um, looking at the differences and hoping that we're just waiting to see what happens post if the difference in actual like mental fatigue is lessened after six weeks of supplementation. So um, yeah, healthy population, inducing mental fatigue. So you can expect your brain to be fried after you come into the lab for those 90 minutes, but it'll be they're gonna hate you.

SPEAKER_00:

They're gonna hate you.

SPEAKER_02:

It'll be fun. And the supplement's actually really expensive. Like if you look it up, six weeks of magnesium on three and eight is super expensive. So it's free for you if you participate.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I've only been taking magnesium for the past year. Um yeah, and I finally started looking at the date on it. I'm like, well, which kind though? I knew you'd ask that, and I don't remember. It's not three and eight, it's not that it's probably the the cheap kind. I'm like, yeah, I'll just buy magnesium, see what happens.

SPEAKER_02:

Hey, that's all right. Something's better than nothing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, take a higher dose. So Alyssa, what do you got going on at Alabama?

SPEAKER_03:

Um, yeah, well, I'm actually coming to a conclusion at Alabama this um, the end of the semester. I accepted a postdoc at UAB's Cardiovascular Disease Center. So I'm going to be continuing research under Dr. Glenn Rowe, and he looks at mitochondrial signals and its uh responses to metabolic health and mitochondrial health and how that relates back to cardiovascular disease. So we're gonna be looking at it in sex differences and in estrogen loss.

SPEAKER_00:

Actually, I'm glad you brought that up because someone asked me, how do you define or measure mitochondrial health? And I said, you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03:

So I will be learning about it soon. But I mean, he measures um mitochondrial biogenesis and function. So he uses a lot of techniques that I'm I will be completely new to, like um mr and mRNA sequencing and um what's it called? Like PCG. Yeah, I think that's it. Um, so yeah, a lot of techniques that are new to me because I've never been in a wet lab before, but I'm super excited to learn how it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that reminds me of my postdoc days. I did a lot of that stuff. Um ran a lot of gels, ran a lot of western blots.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, western blots, one of them.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, the funny part about working in a wet lab is well, you're not these animal models or these are in yeah, you're yeah, so you're you're you you're not talking to people, right?

SPEAKER_03:

I don't have to be on a a person's time either. Arguably better, honestly. Arguably lovely.

SPEAKER_02:

Human research is like babysitting grown adults.

SPEAKER_03:

So right, especially as like a mom to young kids, I was like, this is kind of perfect because you know, I'm not gonna have to be like with my dissertation. I was having to get up and leave my house between 2:30 and three o'clock in the morning, so we would be done with our trials before these humans needed to be in school or work. So, yeah, for these animals to be on my time, I'm like, say less. That sounds crazy.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh my god. Hey, before I let you guys go, um, Antonella, you've mentioned you and Alyssa giving a talk at ISSN. And what's going on in your brain that you might cover?

SPEAKER_02:

I'll let Alyssa start us off.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, me and Antonella are constantly brainstorming on ways to take over the world because it's just one step in that process.

SPEAKER_00:

And you need a partner that you know wants to take over the world, so it's good that you guys are collaborating. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I mean, really, it stems from a lot of what we've discussed today, but you know, we want to really take on um looking at resistance training and supplementation and nutrition in terms of women through their life cycle. And so um, if there are like maybe different considerations that we can give, or just like education that we can give and why resistance training is so superior to other like treatments and whatnot, or different like supplemental strategies that women can use to, you know, maybe mitigate certain conditions and symptoms that they see through their life cycle. That's really what we're getting at, just more education around how awesome resistance training is for everybody. And and I think, you know, the more that somebody knows, the more that uh they're educated, the more likely they are to be motivated in terms of what to do about what they're experiencing. So yeah, we're just all about women resistance training and other strategies to make their lives better.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, come up with a fun title, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Yep, we're working on it. We've been brainstorming, don't you worry.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's gotta be. I always say it has to be entertaining first, educational second.

SPEAKER_03:

So don't worry, we'll we'll drop all the Taylor Swift lines. It's fine. I've just kept covering. I've been practicing.

SPEAKER_00:

I will let you guys do that. Um yeah, I was at a conference, and this was the Silverback Summit in Orlando, and these people actually put an entire abstract on a slide. And I was like, who has time to read? You can't even read it. They literally would copy and paste parts of a discussion and put it on the slide.

SPEAKER_02:

Not us, do not worry. We have better graphic design skills. Slide Queens.

SPEAKER_03:

Like, we're good at that stuff.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I know how to make a slide.

SPEAKER_00:

Make it pretty, make it fun, make it make it educational, and we're good to go. So, Dr. Parton, Dr. Schwartz, hey, uh Antonella, you look like you're cold and you're in South Florida. What the hell's going on?

SPEAKER_02:

I'm in the car and it's cold in the car. And this is like a lightweight, you know, little Lulu jacket. It just has like a high collar that you can't really fold because it's so big, but I promise I'll make that.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh my god. Okay, before we take off, uh Alyssa, where can people find you on social media? What's your Instagram address?

SPEAKER_03:

It is at profparton, P-A-R-T-E-N.

SPEAKER_00:

And Antonella?

SPEAKER_02:

At dr.antinella.swartz. No T in the last name.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a lot of dots.

SPEAKER_02:

I know. You gotta separate it. There's a lot of letters in my name that just mumble jumble.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, Dr. Parton, Dr. Schwartz, thank you so much for being on Sports Science Dudes. Uh, this has been a lot of fun, and I'll have this up in twenty four to forty eight hours.

SPEAKER_02:

Amazing. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01:

Thanks.

SPEAKER_00:

Bye bye.

unknown:

Bye.