How Bars Are Winning the Fake ID Game: Compliance & Culture Tips with Cliff Crider

Ever wondered why some bars proudly wear their one-star Yelp reviews like a badge of honor?

In the cat-and-mouse game of underage drinking, fake IDs are getting more sophisticated—and bars are on the front lines. But cracking down without scaring off real customers or running afoul of the law? That’s the real trick.

In today's episode:

• Learn why scanning IDs is only one piece of the puzzle in spotting fakes.
• Hear how rewarding staff for catching phonies creates a culture of compliance.
• Find out how Cliff's company, Stinger Compliance, uses incognito testers to help bars cover their legal bases and boost training—without disrupting service.

Hit play now to hear how bars are turning fake ID fails into five-star operational wins—with a little help from secret shoppers and a lot of legal smarts.

Learn more about Cliff and Stinger:
Stinger Compliance Website
Stinger on LinkedIn
Cliff's LinkedIn

Learn More:
Schedule a Strategy Session
Bar Business Nation Facebook Group
The Bar Business Podcast Website
Chris' Book 'How to Make Top-Shelf Profits in the Bar Business'

Thank you to our show sponsors, SpotOn and Starfish. SpotOn's modern, cloud-based POS system allows bars to increase team productivity and provides the reporting you need to make smart financial decisions. Starfish works with your bookkeeping software using AI to help you make data-driven decisions and maximize your profits while giving you benchmarking data to understand how you compare to the industry at large.
**We are a SpotOn affiliate and earn commissions from the link above.

A podcast for bar, pub, tavern, nightclub, and restaurant owners, managers, and hospitality professionals, covering essential topics like bar inventory, marketing strategies, restaurant financials, and hospitality profits to help increase bar profits and overall success in the hospitality industry.

Transcript

Chris Schneider (00:02.296)
So one thing that's always hard for bar owners is making sure that their team is appropriately IDing everyone and not serving anybody underage. And from a business standpoint, it's really hard to overstate the importance of properly IDing people because it literally can mean the end of your bar. And we're in a business where compliance is absolutely important and crucial to our existence. So with that in mind, joining us today is Cliff Kreider. Cliff is the owner of Stinger Compliance and Truck and Tap. He is a veteran of our industry.

He started Truck and Tap about a decade ago in Woodstock, Georgia, and has grown to, I believe, four locations. And recently he launched Stinger Compliance, which is to help other bars and restaurants ensure they're staying compliant with underage drinking, ID laws, all of that sort of good stuff. So Cliff, thank you so much for being here.

Cliff Crider (00:52.002)
Yeah, thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

Chris Schneider (00:54.846)
And before we get into Sare compliance and talking about IDs and all that boring stuff, I think everybody listening would be a little bit interested in your story, how you got to where you are, how you took Truck and Tap from an idea to four locations. So fill us in a little bit on Truck and Tap and your journey there.

Cliff Crider (01:13.016)
Yeah, it's like 2006 or five or four. Geez, I don't even know now. I bought a building in downtown Woodstock that was on the main street and didn't really know what to do with it, but had a couple of ideas. I gathered two guys I knew from real estate, really one guy from real estate, one guy from a growler store down the street.

And we cobbled together this beer bar with food truck concept. mean, was kind of, know, we're throwing kind of darts at a board really. Zach had a growler shop down the street that was wildly successful. And Mitch had a commissary kitchen that he hosted food trucks. So we put those two together and it was kind of rock and roll. It just took off from there.

Chris Schneider (02:07.896)
Well, that's fantastic. And because I know a lot of folks listening to the podcast there, a lot of them are early in their journey or they're looking to get into the business. And as someone who's gone from one location to four locations, is there anything about that growth that you think is important for people to understand and how you build in this industry?

Cliff Crider (02:28.674)
Yeah, I mean, it was interesting. I was a real estate guy, had a commercial real estate appraisal firm. I wasn't out there looking to build a bar. I hadn't done this kind of line of work since, you know, I was 25. I mean, I was an industry kid. I worked in Roy Rogers at 15 and I worked all the way up through a place in Orlando called Church Street Station. So I had it in my blood, but it wasn't like I was looking to do it. So when we, when we found the space, it was basically

We had a space in search of a use. So we got this great little piece of real estate. What can we do with it? So then you go through the whole process. It's almost like a highest and best use analysis. What can you put here? And I just happened to land on two really good partners. The perfect timing, food trucks were coming along, craft beer was coming along. Those guys were good operators. It was just a power trio. Kind of like, you know, like Black Sabbath, if you will. I don't know if they're a trio, but so it worked.

The foundation of this was Zach, who was very idealistic on his beer choices. mean, he was over the top of what actually got put on our beer board. And it was almost like, if a craft beer got onto our board, was a good day for that brewer. So that was in and of itself the quality of what we served.

Chris Schneider (03:35.135)
Mm-hmm.

Cliff Crider (03:49.75)
And mind you, we were only craft beer at the very beginning. So we didn't have all the spirits that we have. So we sort of pivoted. So that's one thing you've got to start with quality. You got to pivot. If things aren't going wrong, you got to pivot. But Mitch and I were real estate guys. And so I followed the mantra of like Burger King following McDonald's or you've got to go where the water's warm and you got to go where someone already paved the way.

Chris Schneider (03:54.84)
Mm-hmm.

Cliff Crider (04:19.128)
So we look for vibrant downtown city centers in the suburbs. That was just our model. didn't want to be cool in the city. We wanted to be cool in the suburbs. So we stick to that model. Mitch and I were real estate guys. So we went out and selected a real estate. You didn't find for sale signs and say, I'll take it. That's perfect. You had to take sniper shots at real estate. So that was part of it. then

Chris Schneider (04:19.416)
We look for vibrant downtown city centers in the suburbs. That was just our model. don't want to be cool in the city. We wanted to be cool in the suburbs. So we stick to that model. and I were real estate guys, so we went out and selected a real estate. didn't find for sale signs and say, I'll take it. That's perfect. You had to take sniper shots at real estate. So that was part of it. then we looked like a dirty little dive bar, but we've got

Cliff Crider (04:46.126)
We look like a dirty little dive bar, we've got great ops. It's like that little transformer car, Bumblebee. It's a crappy Camaro on the outside, but on the inside, it's a highly tuned engine. And I know that you're really big on that. You got to know what your costs are. You got to know what your prices are, what your margins, what your variance and your loss. All that has to be in touch.

Chris Schneider (04:49.46)
We've got great ops, you know, like that little transformer car or Bumblebee,

Chris Schneider (05:01.762)
You've got to have, and I know that you're really big on

Chris Schneider (05:07.585)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Schneider (05:14.744)
100 % and it feels like that that kind of attention to detail I imagine is part of what led you to striker compliance and to I'm sorry stinger. Oh

Cliff Crider (05:23.758)
Yeah, Stringer. Actually, that's a good name. So what I think happened is we just got to the point where it was like, OK, well, what do we need to work on next? You're constantly polishing things. And I think that's my personality here is I like just to kind of get something to where it is and then just keep polishing it. can't go from 0 to 100. You got to go 0 to 70.

Chris Schneider (05:39.831)
move

Cliff Crider (05:51.436)
And then you start working on getting it better and better and better. Sports are like that, right? If you can't hit a serve, you got to start slow and you got to, you know, if you're playing the drums, you got to start slow and you get the rhythm and you go faster. So, so we're constantly polishing our, our business model here. And, you know, if you pop in on a bar and you see a couple of young faces over spring break or over Thanksgiving, you got to ask yourself, you know, are we doing everything that we need to do?

Chris Schneider (05:59.766)
Mm-hmm.

Cliff Crider (06:19.918)
to check these IDs to make sure that we're not, because I was a kid too. I knew how to get into the bars. I mean, I would walk in backwards through the exit door. I would sneak in through the back. I would steal the bouncer stamp and I would stamp my own hand. would go to the store and get the invisible ink. And you know, I everything. So I knew how to do things. So we just started mitigating our risks of

Chris Schneider (06:26.462)
yeah.

Chris Schneider (06:39.66)
Mm

Cliff Crider (06:48.478)
of being in the business of selling an age restricted product, a highly sought after bar and highly sought after alcohol. We just started combating that more effectively and it led to Stinger Compliance. Yeah, for sure.

Chris Schneider (07:04.162)
So before we dive into standard compliance and what exactly you guys do there, let's talk a little bit about just kind of IDs checking and compliance in general here. Because I think for a lot of bar owners, particularly those people newer to the industry, it's a very scary thing. Because like I mentioned at the top, it can just put you out of business altogether if you don't follow it. But also it's very complex. Because when you and I were talking before, we talking about we have 50 different states that have 50 different IDs.

This is not an easy system necessarily to navigate. So what should bars and restaurants be doing to make sure they're not coming out of compliance, that they're staying in compliance?

Cliff Crider (07:43.33)
Yeah, so that's kind of a long-winded answer, right? I think it starts with, starts from the top. You've got to have owners and managers that care about this. So it's definitely a culture. Everybody talks about the culture of a restaurant or bar or business, but the culture has to be, we hate miners, get them out of our bar. If that's where you're at, that's kind of has to start there. And that's where you talk about, well,

Chris Schneider (07:47.605)
Yeah.

Chris Schneider (07:56.994)
Mm-hmm.

Cliff Crider (08:13.486)
If you're a restaurant, can't really hate minors. You gotta hate the minors trying to get the alcohol, right? You can't hate the minors trying to get a hamburger. But you run the risk when you are a restaurant and you use, let's just say a pizza and beer joint. My son used to go to the pizza place down the street. There are always kids at the table, but there's also 21 and 22 year olds. So those guys will pass back a beer to the table.

Chris Schneider (08:16.074)
Right.

Cliff Crider (08:43.51)
So that's interesting. I'll tell you a quick story. Long this answering this question. We have a security guard at times at some of our restaurants and bars and security guard. was an off duty Fulton police cop, real, real sharp guy. He didn't want to, to like bust anybody, right? But there's a table of half and halves, right? There's some 22 year olds and there's some probably 20 year olds and they

Chris Schneider (08:49.784)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Schneider (09:03.806)
Mm-hmm

Cliff Crider (09:11.5)
got sat down and they're serving each other drinks. So what he does is he walks over to the table of adults right next to that table and he starts carding them because he knows they're all of age. And you see this table of kids and 20 year olds just leave. So there's so many brilliant ways to handle, you know, compliance. And at that point, he didn't want to get in the whole, you're

Chris Schneider (09:26.136)
And you see this table of kids and 20 year olds just leave.

Chris Schneider (09:39.146)
Yeah.

Cliff Crider (09:41.038)
you you're 18, shouldn't be doing. It was like, dude, I'm coming for you next, but I'm giving you a chance to leave. So, um, yeah, you know, it's got to start from the top. Um, I think you've got to have an alcohol policy. You've got to have a piece of paper that says to your bartender or your server, you're not going to be, uh, you're not going to be, you know, handing off alcohol to anybody without making sure that you've checked their ID. You're not going to be drinking on the job, you know,

Chris Schneider (09:58.392)
You're not gonna be.

be handing off alcohol to anybody without making sure that.

Mm-hmm

Cliff Crider (10:11.394)
going to be, it's just, you spell out, there's probably about 20 different things on our alcohol policy. You sit them down when they get hired and you make them sign it. And then you review it a little later. You we talked about the Danny Meyer, you know, constant gentle pressure, but it's not really gentle. You've got to, there's got to be some pretty hard pressure. And then if they mess up, they got to get dinged, you know, either let go or demoted. It's not a, it's not a

Chris Schneider (10:32.78)
They gotta get things, you know, either let go or demoted. It's not a, it's not a, they didn't just move the salt shaker to the wrong side. They're risking so much.

Cliff Crider (10:39.438)
It's not they didn't just move the salt shaker to the wrong place. You know, the risk in the risking so much or with risking lives. So, yeah, it's got to be got to start from the top. You got to have an alcohol policy. Then you got to have training. know, Raz classes are a must. Responsible alcohol seller server classes. And then you've got to have what we do along with the Raz classes as we.

Chris Schneider (10:47.992)
So yeah, it's gotta be, gotta start from the top.

You gotta have training. know, RAS classes are...

Chris Schneider (10:59.64)
And then you've got to have what we do along with the rest classes as we staying our own bar centers we have that's how it started. We would use the service here in Atlanta and we hired that group to come in and card try to get carded from our bartenders and if they didn't part then we failed. We took care of it but it that worked so well.

Cliff Crider (11:06.318)
staying our own bartenders. have, and that's how it started. We would use a service here in Atlanta and we hired that group to come in and card, try to get carded from our bartenders. And if they didn't card, then we failed. We took care of it, but it, that worked so well. I didn't like a few things about the way that company was doing it. So then I was like, okay, let's build a better mousetrap and let's see if we can scale this.

Chris Schneider (11:28.216)
I didn't like a few things about the way that company was doing it. So then I was like, let's build a better mouse graph. Let's see if we can scale this with some technology that we can do it all over the nation. So that's what happened there. And that's basically a simple ID check. So we will bring in 21, 22, 23 year old kids, like to call them kids, know? So to ask for a course line or whatever.

Cliff Crider (11:35.054)
with some technology that we can do it all over the nation. So that's what happened there. And that's just basically a simple ID check. So we will bring in 21, 22, 23-year-old kids. I call them kids. I'm 60 now. So to ask for a cord's light or whatever. And it works famously because all our crew around here has seen

Chris Schneider (11:58.644)
And it works famously because all our crew around here has seen the effects of it because invariably someone won't card somebody and they will fail. here's the part where they get demoted down.

Cliff Crider (12:04.462)
the effects of it because invariably someone won't card somebody the standard and they will fail. And here's this bartender that gets demoted down to bar back or gets let go. So that's part of the process, know, starts from the top, got to have an alcohol policy, you got to have education and then you got to make sure that

Chris Schneider (12:26.904)
gotta have education.

Cliff Crider (12:30.606)
that your crew is doing what they're doing. And the owner managers can't be there all the time. It's just impossible. And I know for a fact, I I go out with my, I've got some 20 year olds that work for me and we'll go out to lunch. They're not getting carded. And these are some of the best of the best restaurants in the nation. They're just not getting carded. So everybody can use this type of service.

Chris Schneider (12:33.048)
and the owner managers can't be there all the time.

Chris Schneider (12:53.304)
use this type of service? Well, 100%. I think the one part there too that's really important to highlight is you actually make sure people have consequences to their actions, right? Because a lot of places will talk about this. They'll say, oh, you have to ID everybody. Oh, you have to do this. Oh, you have to do that. But when it doesn't happen, there aren't strict consequences. And I hate to say it, but on something of this magnitude for a business, with

Cliff Crider (13:05.09)
Yeah.

Chris Schneider (13:21.526)
the safety issues that exist for the public and the just business life issues that exist, right? Because you can be out of business if you don't do this. Being that strict is almost necessary.

Cliff Crider (13:28.514)
Right, right.

Yeah, you can't. So my district manager who worked at he worked at all the, you know, Beniggens and all these great restaurants, you know, he's my age. He always says you can't you can't unsee something. You know, if if I walk in, I've walked into the bar and I've seen a bar back drinking a beer that he had under the under the back bar. I'm like five feet away from that. I can't unsee that. You know, I'm not going to ignore that. Walk in into the other bar and there's a remote bar and

Chris Schneider (13:38.38)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Schneider (13:55.64)
Mm-hmm.

Cliff Crider (14:00.748)
kids sipping a margarita. You know, those guys are gone. Just like that. You know, and so other people see that that's what's going to happen. So then it becomes a zero. You know, it's just it's just they know not to do it. Unless they get really crafty. you know,

Chris Schneider (14:05.516)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Schneider (14:13.976)
know not to do it. Unless they get really crafty. Well, and that's the thing, right? People do. Like, I hate to say that, but people do get kind of crafty. And now I know one of the problems though, when we have like a zero tolerance policy towards not IDing and a zero tolerance policy, some of this, you'll hear people say, well, that gets in the way of hospitality. That gets in the way of taking care of your guests. Because you're IDing them and you're hassling them for IDs and you're

Cliff Crider (14:20.034)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris Schneider (14:42.934)
You're changing the experience. Now, obviously, I think both of us would say that's a terrible way to think about that. But how do we avoid pissing people off while working on compliance at that level?

Cliff Crider (14:48.962)
Right, right.

Cliff Crider (14:56.802)
Yeah, I think part of that becomes, I think it's the customer. I think you're just going to get some bad seeds. Most people that come to a bar realize that they're going to get carded. It's those people that still latch onto their vertical ID when they're 23 years old, or latch onto an expired ID, or come in with some pieces of paper that are just, this is my

Chris Schneider (15:11.32)
Mm-hmm.

Cliff Crider (15:25.228)
you know, Porter, you know, Hawaiian, you car, I don't know. It's just and then we have to research it. We have to get the book out. We have to scan it. We have to look at some other ID. It's like, come on, you're coming to a bar. Just just have your stuff ready. So but I get it. So then you get a couple of people that probably do have a legitimate ID. And it's it's let's say it's from Michigan. And we're looking at it. We're like, man, it's kind of beat up. Worn out. So we're scanning it.

Chris Schneider (15:27.842)
you know, I don't know. And then we have to research, we have to get the book out, we have to scan it, we have to look at some other ID. It's like, come on, you're coming to a bar, just have your stuff ready. So, but I get it. So then you get.

do have a legitimate ID and it's let's say it's from Michigan and we're looking at it we're like man it's kind of beat up worn out so we're scanning it they look younger yeah that then it becomes you just have to apologize you just have to but that was very rare a lot of our one-star reviews are of people that went through our gauntlet and I some you know I would say most of them are the ones that failed

Cliff Crider (15:53.218)
They look younger. Yeah, then it becomes, you just have to apologize. You just have to, but that's very rare. A lot of our one-star reviews are of people that went through our gauntlet. I would say most of them are the ones that failed and that legitimately had a fake ID that we confiscated. And they just get on the Yelp or whatever and they one-star. So we live with that.

Chris Schneider (16:12.76)
and that legitimately had a fake ID that we confiscated. And we'd get on the Yelp or whatever and then one star around. So we live with that. That's okay. we're proud of our one

Cliff Crider (16:22.572)
That's okay. So we're proud of our one-star reviews. But you know, we're using a scanner now too. So there's not one method that works. It's just, there's not a, you know, a panacea, if you will. There's not one method that works. You've got to, it's almost like the art of compliance, you know, on the fake IDs, you've got to know some tells and it's impossible to know every,

Chris Schneider (16:26.988)
But you know, we're using a scanner now too, but there's not one method that works. There's not a...

you know, of panacea, if you will, there's not one method that works. You've got to, it's almost like the art of compliance, know, you've got to know some tells and it's impossible to know every, every thing wrong with every other state. You know, I would say first start with the state that you're in, really nail down that ID. And then what you learn from that.

Cliff Crider (16:51.894)
thing wrong with every other state. I would say first start with the state that you're in, really nail down that ID. And then what you learn from that, our Georgia ID, what you learn from that Georgia ID may actually transfer over to other IDs. At least you know the nomenclature and the definitions. You know what a ghost is, you know what a hologram is, you know what micro whatever, you know what laminate.

Chris Schneider (17:02.36)
Or Georgia ID what you learn from that Georgia ID may may actually transfer over to other IDs at least you know the nomenclature and definition

Cliff Crider (17:18.542)
And then you start looking for features. Now you know the language. Now you can kind of go and say, OK, well, we see a lot of North Carolina IDs. So then you pick up the North Carolina one. You start looking at that. But I think the scanners are getting better and better these days. They're not 100%. I think our scanner is probably, I would say, 85 % accurate. And so you just use all these tools that you have. And signage is another one.

Chris Schneider (17:30.626)
think the scanners are getting better and better these days. They're not 100%. I think our scanner is probably, I would say 85 % accurate. And so you just use all these tools that you have. And signage is another one. Just make sure when they come in, they see signs. Yes, we don't take vertical IDs. Yes, we confiscate. It's illegal.

Cliff Crider (17:48.098)
Just make sure when they come in, they see signs. Yes, we don't take vertical IDs. Yes, we confiscate. It's illegal. And then seeing if the kids see that we are carting, then they'll usually turn around and go somewhere else. You'll see them kind of huddling 30 feet from your property line. What's our strategy? Like you could have talked about it a mile away. We see you now.

Chris Schneider (17:58.264)
You know, and then seeing if the kids see that we are carding, and they'll usually turn around and go somewhere else. Right. Kind of huddling 30 feet from your property line. What's our strategy? Like you could have talked about it, you know, a mile away. We could see you now. That's not the best place to plot, is it?

Chris Schneider (18:23.544)
So that's interesting. And I think that's, you know, it's true and it's interesting because I asked about hospitality and kind of in the process you rephrased that to, well, why are they just being dicks and coming in and doing something wrong? But that is really the way to look at it, isn't it?

Cliff Crider (18:39.658)
Yeah, you got to back up your bar tenders. mean, and we do, you try to give them the tools and try to say, hey, you did the right thing. But they know, I mean, if once again, it's the culture, you know, we give 20 bucks for every fake ID found. so I'm not in all our bars all the time. So I can't get out there.

Chris Schneider (18:43.019)
Yeah.

Chris Schneider (18:58.946)
Okay.

Cliff Crider (19:04.558)
district manager, other owners, you know, they do this too. But, you know, I'll go up to the new bartenders and I'll just make sure I'll say, look, I just want you to know the most important thing to me as as the owner. I'm not here all the time. And, know, I don't hover, but don't serve any anybody underage. Check ID is under 40. That's that you're going to get. You know, you're going to win my heart by doing that. And then I'll say I'll say, listen, I want you to get a fake ID, get a fake ID in two weeks.

Chris Schneider (19:22.604)
Mm-hmm.

Cliff Crider (19:33.642)
know, try to do that. they do. It's kind of cool to see them. And then when they do, they're real happy about it. you know, and so they start maintaining that, you know what? I kind of hate the miner in my bar. I'm going to get them and I'm to make 20 bucks in the process.

Chris Schneider (19:52.778)
Now one question on that because I know some people take fake ID, some people don't and there's always the fear, at least I've always had the fear of if I confiscate your fake ID and I'm wrong, I just did something really bad. So do you have any advice on that side of it?

Cliff Crider (20:07.01)
Yeah, yeah.

Cliff Crider (20:11.438)
Yeah, so know your law, know your state law, because it's not every state allows you to confiscate an ID. It is personal property. look, I'm no lawyer. But some of our guys will say, well, listen, we'll call 911 and we'll let them sort it out. That's what we say usually. And then if they're not 100 % still asking for the ID at that point, you call their bluff, basically.

Chris Schneider (20:37.388)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Cliff Crider (20:41.006)
Yeah, yeah. we take it and mostly it's, mostly they are somewhat nervous kids trying to do it. They're, I want to say somewhat privileged kids because sometimes their parents come back in and try to get their IDs back, which just blows my mind. We've had some kids try to buy their ID back. what can I do to get my ID back?

Chris Schneider (20:48.428)
they are somewhat.

Chris Schneider (20:59.192)
Mm-hmm.

Cliff Crider (21:10.958)
You know, this is probably, I don't know what they are, a hundred something bucks for a couple of them. I don't know.

Chris Schneider (21:13.08)
they are.

I've been out of college too long to know. And I mean, I probably should not admit this, but you did earlier. I had other tricks too, right? Like there was, for me, a fake ID was not the way to get booze. was older friends was normally the path. So turning now a little bit more towards Stinger Compliance, how exactly does your program work? And talk just a little bit about that and how you're working with other bars to help them with their comp-

Cliff Crider (21:18.572)
Yeah. Yeah.

Cliff Crider (21:29.752)
Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cliff Crider (21:43.47)
Yeah, it's super easy. you know, I hate to be that guy that says we've Uberized this process, but you know, that's what we've done. It, you know, we're on iOS with a nice application. We've got our website. We've got people that will get on the phone and help. But basically, you know, if I'm a bar owner, I'll just jump on the website and set something up. We'll contact you.

We'll figure out what your needs are. We have ways to do more of a bespoken type of a customize. If you want a certain set of hours and a certain set of days that will come and check, we'll check multiple bartenders. But for the most part, what I recommend for bars and restaurants is twice a month during peak hour and see what happens.

Chris Schneider (22:28.62)
Mm-hmm.

Cliff Crider (22:43.374)
What's going to happen is that once the word is out, you may only need to go down to once a month. But if you've got multiple locations and multiple bartenders, it is a good idea to do at least two per month. But yeah, our stingers will just come out incognito. They're 22, 23, 24, 25. They'll go to the convenience store and pick up a Coors Light, or they'll sit at the bar and pick up a Coors Light.

Chris Schneider (22:47.992)
You may only need to go down to once a month, but if you got multiple locations and multiple bartenders, is a good idea to do at least two per month. But yeah, our singers will just come out incognito. They're 22, 23, 24, 25.

They'll go to the convenience store and pick up a course like or they'll sit at the bar and pick up a course like you know, we the other a of the other groups will Throw down a red card or a green card To indicate whether that server has failed or passed. We don't do that. We don't want to Our faces we want to still be right

Cliff Crider (23:13.23)
A lot of the other groups will throw down a red card or a green card to indicate whether that server has failed or passed. We don't do that. We don't want to show our faces. We want to still be incognito. We want to be able to come back a week later, two weeks later. We'll still mix it up. But we also don't want to a wrench into the restaurant.

We don't want to be the guy that tells the bartender, just failed. That's the manager's job. That's the strict manager's job. That needs to happen at their own course of action. So that's basically it. Super easy. And then we have, we're a little bit of a secret shopper because some of our clients will ask, hey, while you're there, can you

Chris Schneider (23:47.724)
manager's job.

Chris Schneider (24:02.263)
And then we have.

Chris Schneider (24:09.794)
Hey, while you're there, can you tell me if the bathrooms are clean? Can you tell me if someone came over to you and

Cliff Crider (24:12.194)
Tell me if the bathrooms are clean. Can you tell me if someone came over to you in 30 seconds? Or was it two minutes? Or did they know the menu? So we have the ability. So Truck and Tap used to use a secret shopper. it was just like 150 questions of stuff that we didn't even look at. We just wanted kind of like a handful, an encapsulation of things that were important to us. So we're adding this to our service here.

Chris Schneider (24:30.968)
150 questions and stuff that we didn't even look at you know we just wanted kind of like a handful and encapsulation of things that were important so so we're adding this to our service here we're fully focused on you know the alcohol and tobacco of anybody selling you know at the retail level but we're also going in a little customer

Cliff Crider (24:42.05)
Fully focused on the alcohol and tobacco compliance of anybody selling at the retail level. But we're also throwing in little customer optics, mean, sorry, experience type of thing. So tiny bit of Secret Shopper alongside of the compliance side.

Chris Schneider (25:00.906)
And for the record, just so that everybody that's listening knows, you're looking at retail and bars and restaurants on this, and you're also looking at not just booze, but also like tobacco, lottery, all that as well, correct?

Cliff Crider (25:14.604)
Yeah, Anything that's age restricted, right? We're not going to get into the guns. But yeah, but you know, this happens on the tobacco side a lot. And that's definitely an area we're focusing on.

Chris Schneider (25:21.016)
That's probably smart.

Chris Schneider (25:25.964)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Schneider (25:30.016)
Well, I know there are less bars now that sell tobacco products, but historically bars have always sold tobacco. And that's a big piece of the compliance there. Yeah. I mean, I had one for years. And actually, and I'd be lying if I told you, I made a lot of money selling cigarettes. Like it was a good business back in the day.

Cliff Crider (25:36.482)
Yeah, you know, the cigarette machine, remember the cigarette machine? Yeah. Yeah.

Cliff Crider (25:49.132)
I'm sure he did, yeah.

I want to remember that there was a lever just to get matches out too, right? Couldn't you just like pull a lever and some matches would come out? Maybe I'm going back to the 70s. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Schneider (25:59.806)
On the old school ones? Yeah. You are. Because mine was just one of the like chip machines with the screw. And I use that for cigarettes because I couldn't get a cool one like you're talking about in, you know, 2008, 2009.

Cliff Crider (26:07.828)
Okay, yeah, yeah

Cliff Crider (26:15.212)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going back to when I was riding around on my bike and I wanted some matches for some fireworks. So yeah.

Chris Schneider (26:20.472)
Well, and that's also though, at that point, you could probably walk into a bar too, because that's when the laws were a little laxer than they are today.

Cliff Crider (26:29.528)
Yeah, I would walk into the back of a bar and play Space Invaders. Yeah, I remember those days.

Chris Schneider (26:34.188)
Yeah.

And now if a kid did that in your bar, you'd kick them out quicker than they knew what was going on. But that's just, it's culture changes, right? And that's part of what is true here with all this compliance stuff. And with alcohol, you know, if you look at, if you think about the 70s to today, it has all changed. How much the Dram Shop laws are impacting the industry? How much the attorneys come after us if something bad happens?

Cliff Crider (26:39.812)
yeah, yeah, we hate miners.

Cliff Crider (27:04.417)
Yeah.

Chris Schneider (27:05.462)
Right? Like we're in a much more litigious society, unfortunately, I want to say, than back then. And that means all this compliance stuff just becomes more and more important.

Cliff Crider (27:15.288)
Yeah, and that's a great point because what we're doing, we're building a case for bars and restaurants and convenience stores, grocery stores, whoever, of doing the right thing. This becomes a lever that they can pull in case they do have to go to court. They can say, we sting our own people two times a month, and for that matter, we have passed X amount of times. And that just becomes proof positive that

you're doing the right thing, you're not being negligent. In fact, you're being the opposite.

Chris Schneider (27:46.946)
Yeah.

Chris Schneider (27:52.426)
Well, I'm sure that also helps for things like insurance, just being able to tell the insurance companies that you're doing that or even with excise themselves, right? Because I've always found with government compliance folks, because they're just normal people as much as they might seem evil to us at certain points. They just want to do their job. And if we help them do their job, they give us a little more grace on when we screw up a tiny bit.

Cliff Crider (28:11.822)
Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would would love to see insurance companies take this type of compliance tool and help restaurants and bars and convenience stores lower their insurance burden because this works just like responsible alcohol seller service classes, know, RAS classes help and they require that.

Chris Schneider (28:30.498)
Mm-hmm.

Cliff Crider (28:39.342)
that this seems to be something that should be required too.

Chris Schneider (28:43.82)
Well, it just makes sense, right? Because the classes are great, but as we all know, training without follow-up doesn't stick. And so this is the follow-up to that training. Now with that, we're running out time for today, but is there anything else at Allcliffe that you would like to add?

Cliff Crider (28:49.826)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Cliff Crider (29:00.398)
No, just, you know, bars, restaurants, you just got to do the right thing. I mean, I think overall it's making sure that if you care about this and you pass it on to your crew, then they'll care about it. But you quickly know what restaurants and bars don't really care about it because you see the kids leaving your place and going there. So it's very interesting. So stay vigilant. You don't want to...

You don't want to fail at this level. Yeah, you can fail at moving the salt shaker, but don't fail at not carding the kid and kicking him out of your bar. I guess that's what I can say.

Chris Schneider (29:42.368)
Well, I think that's a great kind of way to wrap all this up. Now for people that are listening and they're saying, hey, this sounds like an interesting program. I want to learn more. Where can people go to learn more about you and Stinger Compliance?

Cliff Crider (29:55.554)
Yeah, it's simple StingerCompliance.com. Yeah, right there. We're on LinkedIn, we're everywhere. Instagram, Bring it on.

Chris Schneider (30:08.002)
Perfect. So we'll put those links down in the show notes. If you're listening and want to find out more, can just scroll down and click on the link. We'll also throw a link on there for Truck and Tap in case you want to check out Cliff's bars and what he has going on. So with that, Cliff, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate the conversation. And just thank you for your time.

Cliff Crider (30:17.516)
Yeah, cool.

Cliff Crider (30:26.52)
Yeah, appreciate it. Thank you very much. We'll see you.