Why Better Leadership—Not Better Cocktails—Unlocks Bar Success with Dave Nitzel

What if better leadership—not better cocktails—is the secret to unlocking your bar’s full potential?

 In this episode, Chris sits down with Dave Nitzel to unpack why the old-school, hard-nosed management style in hospitality just doesn’t cut it anymore. From coaching bar leaders to changing lives, Dave shares how real leadership development can radically transform not just your team—but your entire business.

In today's episode:

• Learn why hospitality leadership is about more than barking orders—and how to become the kind of boss people want to follow.
• Hear why dive bar owners and fine dining managers actually have more in common than you think when it comes to leadership.
• Discover the truth behind those “Bar Rescue” style quick fixes—and why real change takes time, support, and community.

Hit play now to hear how Dave and Chris are flipping the script on hospitality leadership—one honest conversation at a time.

Learn More:
Email Chris
Schedule a Strategy Session
Bar Business Nation Facebook Group
The Bar Business Podcast Website
Chris' Book 'How to Make Top-Shelf Profits in the Bar Business'

Thank you to our show sponsors, SpotOn and Starfish. SpotOn's modern, cloud-based POS system allows bars to increase team productivity and provides the reporting you need to make smart financial decisions. Starfish works with your bookkeeping software using AI to help you make data-driven decisions and maximize your profits while giving you benchmarking data to understand how you compare to the industry at large.
**We are a SpotOn affiliate and earn commissions from the link above.

A podcast for bar, pub, tavern, nightclub, and restaurant owners, managers, and hospitality professionals, covering essential topics like bar inventory, marketing strategies, restaurant financials, and hospitality profits to help increase b...

Transcript

Chris Schneider (00:01.016)
So today we're going to talk about a program that's a little bit different. Normally we talk about things for bar owners, but this is a program specifically designed for bar managers. Owners can be involved too, some are. But really this is all about amping up your managers. And the program we're going to talk about today is the Advanced Management Program. It's run by Dave Nitzel and Dave Domzalski of Dave and Dave Hospitality and Ray Walsh of Barmetrics. And so joining me today is Dave Nitzel. He's going to tell us all about his AMP program. In addition to AMP, just so that you know Dave's background,

He's been on the podcast. If you haven't listened to that episode, it was about a year ago. You should go back and listen to it. It's a really good one. But Dave is also a leadership coach, co-author of the Bar Shift and Hospitality DNA, which are great books that if you haven't read, you should read. is the CSO of Stinger Compliance and a Bar Metrics franchisee. So Dave is all over our industry in a whole bunch of different ways. Welcome back to the podcast, Dave. Thank you so much for being here.

Dave Nitzel (00:51.934)
Yeah, thanks for having me, man. It's a pleasure.

Chris Schneider (00:54.99)
So one of the reasons why I wanted to talk about the Advanced Management Program, or AMP, is because I had the recent opportunity to present to his program on financial statements and P &L analysis. And I will tell you guys, it's a really cool group of people. It's a diverse group of people from all over the country, and I think some even around the world, if I'm not mistaken. And a huge amount of knowledge in that program, which really helps to amplify

Dave Nitzel (01:16.662)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chris Schneider (01:24.142)
The coaching that Dave is doing there, because you get to learn from everybody else, there's a lot of really good questions, really smart people there. So Dave, before we launch into how AMP came about and get into all that, do you want to kind of give us like the 30,000 foot view?

Dave Nitzel (01:41.876)
Yeah. Thank you for all that. Sure. Let me try. So the idea is there's a lot of, there's a lot of folks out there that focus on coaching ownership and that makes perfect sense. And we do that too. I certainly do that. after we wrote The Bar Shift and Hospitality DNA, Dave and I, you know, we sort of looked at one another and said, what do we do with all this content now? Like we have a book and we're doing coaching and we did a lot of talks and we did cool stuff.

But how do we use this and how do we impact the industry? And when we stepped back and looked at it, we said, look, there's really not a lot out there for frontline managers. And so much is put on them from a leadership day-to-day basis. And what support do they get? And if we think about owners, we know how busy owners are. know, so much

It's like everything lands on the head of the pin, which is the owner. And How often does an owner really get to invest in their management team in a way that benefits everyone? so based on what we think we know, we said, look, let's see if we can put something together. That coupled with, we did get a lot of comments along the way that said, hey, not for me, but do you have anything for managers? So that would come up. And the answer was always, well, no, not really.

So a combination of those two things, think, were the convergence of AMP. And the third leg of that is it has to be hyper affordable. You can forget it if you're going to have a high-end, high-cost program for managers in independent bars and restaurants. people just won't crack the wallet open for it.

Frankly, we don't care about that. So we have a hyper affordable program geared towards the people that are really making things happen in the restaurant every day. And it's been wildly impactful. it's just honestly, for me coaching, it's in the sweet spot of what I love doing.

Chris Schneider (03:53.742)
Well, I think one of the things that's really cool to me about the program, because you are correct, right? A lot of people say, how can I make my managers better? Some don't, and we'll talk about that in a second and why they should care more. But a lot of people do that and they just don't have the budget to pay someone, you know, $30,000 to upscale their management staff. And I love how you guys come at this with the idea of let's provide an affordable approach that actually is going to help the independents. It's actually going to drive our industry forward.

Because you and I have talked and one thing I think we both very much agree on is some folks in our industry on the consulting side are more about the money and less about the impact. And I love how you're more about the impact and less about the money. I mean, obviously you make good impact, you make good money. That's why I'm here. That's why you're here. But focusing on that impact first is just so nice and refreshing.

Dave Nitzel (04:40.405)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (04:46.078)
Yeah, thanks. Look, that means the impact means everything to me. mean, we even scholarship people. I'll tell you who my favorite people in the world are. We have managers in that program that are paying their own way. There's people in that program who said, I just want to be a better manager and they pay their own freight. And so with folks like that, want to...

I try to find excuses to do something special for those folks. So we're looking at different scholarship options and that sort of thing, which I am thrilled to do. So if there were someone listening to this and man, I need that, but my boss, my boss wouldn't pay for it and blah, blah, blah. You could reach out to us about a scholarship program. Listen, it's wildly affordable. If you want to get better and you want coaching, we won't let money stand in the way of making that happen.

Sounds crazy, but it's true.

Chris Schneider (05:42.774)
It is crazy and true, which is good. along those lines, though, so you have managers that are investing in themselves whose owners won't. And that goes back to the thing I just mentioned about, you sometimes owners don't invest in their teams. Why is it so crucially important in this industry for owners to invest in their teams, especially in your small independents where that normally doesn't happen?

Dave Nitzel (05:50.134)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (06:04.522)
Well, there's a million answers to that, honestly, like, and hopefully most people know most of the right answers as to why it's important to invest in your team. can start with, I think, like you came on and did some coaching. I thought it was fantastic. And I think you gave a bit of a spread of what the profitability looks like for the industry. And it's a bit bleak. If you look at the, if you look at the, let's say the bottom 70 % of the industry is, let's say on a good day, net neutral.

And then you have another group that's making enough money to pay the bills and have a reasonably decent living. And then, and we talk about this in the Hospitality DNA, you know, there's the one percenters that are living a fundamentally different life. What we aspire for folks is to be able to live a fundamentally different life. You can't do that on your own. You have to build a team. And in order to build a team, you have to dispense knowledge to the team and the team has to know what the answers are, know how to think, know how to behave.

And it's not enough just for the manager and the owner to know how to think and behave, but that has to cascade throughout the organization. And the beautiful thing is when you get an organization that knows how to think and behave, a thing called productivity happens. And what productivity essentially is, is I'm able to stack more wins than I otherwise would, or I'm able to stack more wins than the person across the street, next door, the competition, whatever it is.

And when I start stacking wins, that means I'm multiplying my business, whatever it is, whether it's financial, whether it's service, whether it's turnover, guest experience, it's employee experience, all these things. So it's a huge answer, but it's a multiplying effect. It's a productivity play and productivity is critical in business. And that's another conversation that we don't have very often in this industry is one about productivity.

We have a lot of conversations about busyness. We're busy. We're always busy. And I like to say, look, we're always busy getting nothing done. We're always busy just taking on whatever's coming at us every day and the day will consume you in tasks and you never really advance the vital interests of the business. So what we want to do in these programs is extract people out of the busy, busyness of the day and give them an opportunity to

Chris Schneider (08:02.574)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (08:28.232)
look at their business from afar if they can, and also learn from their peers. So this is group coaching where you're on a call with a bunch of people that are doing similar things in different places and different concepts. You get to learn about what they're up against and hear the different ways that we coach people on all these things. And I'm telling you, Chris, the multiplying effect is immense.

Chris Schneider (08:53.486)
Well, and I saw some of that when I was presenting to the group just because that and it's, A, it's great content, but B, it's the people that are there, right? That group coaching really does amplify it and having really some great operators and some great managers in there and people that it seemed like represent almost all sides of the spectrum of the restaurant and bar industry. So you get those diverse perspectives feeding in.

Dave Nitzel (09:02.774)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Schneider (09:24.384)
Just because so often I feel like we put ourselves, whether it's owners, managers, whoever in this industry, we put ourselves in a corner and we just focus on what's right in front of us in our establishment and don't look at how somebody else doing this. Right. And for whatever reason, and maybe you know the answer to this, I've been trying to figure it out for 20 years in our industry, it seems like we're more competitive than we are collaborative.

Dave Nitzel (09:50.078)
I would say there's a balance to that. think people, here's what I think I know, coming from outside the industry is folks who open independent bars and restaurants often have a ferocious independent streak in them. A bit of a rebellious streak in it. Don't tell me what to do. I don't want to be told how to do things. I'm going to go make it on my own. And this is my vision of that. And I don't need someone like Dave or Chris coming in and telling me otherwise. And I totally get it because I've got to...

a bit of that in me as well. At the same time, however, when we went and did like hospitality DNA and we did these books, the willingness of people to share is incredible. Like we had people tell us all their secrets to success very willingly and would say, by the way, if you need more, come back. But you have to create a conduit for that sharing.

If you are just living in the independent space of your four walls, there's no conduit to share. There's no opportunity to get together with the like-minded people doing similar things to you and really open up and be honest about, this is what I do well and here's what I don't. Man, wow, you're doing that. That's so cool. And how did you figure that out? And these groups become these little pods. Like these folks become friends for like ever because they're in this.

pod group that was only supposed to last 90 days and here we are a year and a half later still doing it. So there's no contracts or anything like that. People stay as long as they want to stay. And the awesome thing is they don't want to leave. So that's a really great sign that we're getting something right in the program.

Chris Schneider (11:32.408)
For sure. And overall, so I know when I was there, obviously we talked about financial stuff. But from what I understand, you really cover the gamut of everything that a bar manager or restaurant manager is going to come across any day of the week.

Dave Nitzel (11:37.494)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (11:42.944)
Yeah.

Dave Nitzel (11:48.07)
mostly from a management perspective. So where we have to be super careful is like if I was an owner and I was presented with this, I would say, you know, I don't know if I want someone else teaching my manager how to lead in my business. So we're mindful of that, which means that we really default to things that

An owner has to be able to trust us with their manager. So we default to things that are pretty tried and true. So for example, I'm not going to say to someone, look, hey, your food costs are out of whack. I need you to go renegotiate terms with your food provider. Like that's not what we do. We'll talk about things like how to give a shift meeting and why it matters. We'll talk to things about things like consistency, emotional maturity, self-awareness, recognition, rewards programs.

hiring terminations, just stuff that people often talk about in the industry, but really don't activate on sounds good. But again, in the, in the tsunami of the day, too busy to get anything done. This allows folks and then, and then in a very, hopefully tough, but kind way, we hold them accountable to it. So you need to next next session.

You got to tell us what you did. want to know how you're going to go from. have we had one person who was an owner in this case was a tough owner, let's say tough personality type that doesn't give thank yous away very easily and got some feedback about that and was going to go on mission about telling more people thank you more often. And they had to keep like a account of how often they did that and come back and tell us you went from this many thank yous to that many thank yous.

Chris Schneider (13:17.848)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (13:45.086)
And it sounds funny and ridiculous and Dave, I wouldn't pay for that. But look, fundamentally can change your business when you show appreciation for people in a way that you hadn't before. And we talked about this just in one of the groups recently is outside of like say your spouse. And let's say if you have a spouse or your significant other, kids, if you have them, immediate family say the next most important person in your life often is who? It's the boss.

Chris Schneider (14:14.414)
who you work with.

Dave Nitzel (14:15.37)
the boss. And I said, I don't, you know, that you can see that sort of rush over people and go, yeah, holy crap. Like, yeah, you need to appreciate the role that you play in people's lives and how you affect their wellbeing. And I'm not someone who's huge on like the, I'm a Gen Xer, so I'm not huge on like the emotional wellbeing stuff.

I take a slightly different approach around time and energy and like why it matters. So I have my own way of coaching that stuff. And there's people who are great with the, the emotional wellbeing thing. It's not necessarily what I would call my specialty, but that I'm huge on leadership and management and how you affect people, and understanding the importance of that authority in folks lives. So we have really great conversations like that on these coaching calls and,

And it's just a joy for me. I love

Chris Schneider (15:11.778)
Well, you know, it's interesting because as you were saying that I was thinking it. There is a time and place to say, hey, your food cost is over and you need to go read discuss this with your supplier, right? And that's the kind of stuff that I tell people one on one. Maybe that's not really a group coaching thing to your point. But I feel like a lot of times what people get coached on in our industry is more of the hey, you need to go renegotiate your food contracts.

Dave Nitzel (15:20.81)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (15:36.022)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Schneider (15:37.494)
and not these soft skills that really are what generate your culture, build your business, establish that longevity in your community. And what sets you apart from everybody else?

Dave Nitzel (15:48.118)
100 % agree. Yep. And I can tell that's true by the reactions that we're getting from folks. don't, I won't look the reactions we get, the quotes and things that people change my life. We've had people in tears on the call on this stuff. When people tell you fundamentally change my life, I'm a better person. I'm a better boss. I'm happier. I have more energy. Life at home is better. These are the comments that we get.

that we're the feedback that we're getting. And for me, that's priceless. That that's why I do it. And I just love it. You know, so the value of that, you can't even put a number on that. Right. If you were to say, hey, Dave, you know, what do you charge? What's the value of a million dollars? You you want to be happy. You want a million bucks. So again, I don't care. Like, I just don't care. I get to decide. Here's me being.

I get to decide what I charge for stuff and this is what I love doing and this is what I want to do and this is who I want to impact. that, and so that's how we do it. And Dave's aligned with that. Ray's aligned with that. And, I don't know, man, like what's better? Like for me, there's just, I nerd out on that and I just, what's better.

Chris Schneider (17:08.942)
I don't know that there is anything better, right? And that's why I do the podcast and everything I do. Because yeah, the coaching is what makes the money. The podcast eats up more of my time than the coaching and makes me nothing. So, but to me, it's getting out there. It's talking to people. It's giving people information, changing the way they're looking at their business. That is really what I enjoy about doing this every day. And that's why I think it's so great that you guys are all on that same page when it comes to this coaching program.

Dave Nitzel (17:19.51)
Right. Yeah.

Dave Nitzel (17:27.722)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, very much.

Dave Nitzel (17:38.09)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Schneider (17:38.446)
Because it changes the, when the coaches change the way they're thinking, it changes the results for the people being coached. Right? And so it really just.

Dave Nitzel (17:47.126)
That's right. Very much so. And I don't know who else is doing this, Chris. And if they are, I'm thrilled for that. I mean, I'd like to hear from them, but I think this is fairly, I think it's fairly unique for our industry. I don't either. Yeah, me too. I dig it. I also, in part of this, I learned from...

Chris Schneider (18:03.008)
I don't know anyone else doing it. And that's why I think it's so cool.

Dave Nitzel (18:14.144)
coaching other coaches. So I coach coaches outside this industry, Harvard, PhDs, game show hosts, Broadway singers. I got all these folks who are transitioning in their career to want to coach others. And that's how I do it there as well. And those folks don't have anything in common other than they all aspire to be coaching.

Chris Schneider (18:40.022)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (18:40.318)
So, you your Harvard PhD has nothing to do with a Broadway singer. There's no, there's, except they're both trying to accomplish the same thing in their lives. And that's a little bit about what's happening in this coaching program is it doesn't matter that someone has, one person has a cocktail bar, one has a dive bar, one has fine dining. Doesn't matter. They're all aspiring to be better leaders. They're all aspiring to be better managers. And the principles for that stuff are largely the same.

Chris Schneider (19:09.326)
Well, I think too, that's a really good point because it so often in this industry, we draw lines between, the dive bar guy has nothing in common with the fine dining guy. And the person running the nightclub is in a totally separate industry than the person running the quick service restaurant. And yeah, they are different. And there are differences between all those for sure. But we have a lot more in common than we have different.

Dave Nitzel (19:32.192)
There's differences in the offer. There's not really differences in leadership. And you could take the same principles we're coaching in this program and you could apply them to the military. You can apply them to big business, small business. It doesn't matter. Like, so for example, you know, go, go tell people, thank you. Where doesn't that apply? Go have a recognition program. Where doesn't that apply?

know how to communicate, know what your messaging is, where doesn't that apply, creating your, building your culture. It applies everywhere. It's just, don't, I, I'm convinced that we don't have those conversations in this particular industry because this particular industry is lean. It's fast. It's tough. Margins are slim and it's just not normal. It's just not what people are conditioned to work on. And I think we're here to change that a little bit.

Chris Schneider (20:22.286)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (20:27.104)
thrilled to be on the vanguard of that conversation.

Chris Schneider (20:30.552)
Well, and it is something that needs to change. Because I mean, I know you came into hospi- when did you start working in hospitality? 2014? Okay. So I remember when I was a kid growing up in the industry in like the nineties and early two thousands and the management back then was brutal. Right? I mean, it was, I had a manager once I showed up to work. I was working at a Fleming's at that point in time.

Dave Nitzel (20:37.11)
14, 14, yeah.

Dave Nitzel (20:51.348)
Yes.

Chris Schneider (20:57.966)
And he asked me why my shirt was wrinkled. Well, I had taken it out of the dryer right before I put it on. And then he proceeded to chew me out because I didn't take it to the dry cleaners and have it starched properly. Because unless I could starch a shirt like I was in the GD military, there's no f-ing way I was ever going to work on his floor. Right? so from there to where we are today is a huge move. But to your point, where we are today is we're not keeping up with these other industries on

Dave Nitzel (21:08.64)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (21:16.054)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Schneider (21:26.05)
taking care of our people and personnel management and leadership training.

Dave Nitzel (21:30.016)
I think we're getting better. also think shows like Bar Rescue and Hell's Kitchen and these shows that like to go in and obliterate people for ratings is a really horrific example for the industry to follow. And that isn't to say that those folks aren't talented. Of course they are. And that stuff's for ratings. Of course it is. But I also think that it's just yet another bad example. It's so easy to follow lots of bad best practices in this industry, whether it's the

late nights, the drinking, the shows that people love to watch, but they don't have to live the reality of that. So there's plenty of, there's too many bad examples out there to follow and not enough good ones that are made public that we know about. It's hard to see the great stories and know what people are doing. Yeah. So we aspire to change that, I think.

Chris Schneider (22:26.03)
Especially those shows. Let's just for a second talk about that. to me those shows have always been, okay, yeah, if I had five days to change a bar around, I don't know that I can do that in any other way than get in people's face and make them just wake them up as quick as I possibly can to what's going on. But that's not how any real coaching works, right? We're talking about months and months of work that they're trying to smash into five days in a way that's never going to produce long-term results.

Dave Nitzel (22:43.328)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Schneider (22:54.976)
And that's, I also feel like sometimes it becomes a misconception on restaurateurs and bar owners ends in just that you can't flip a bar around or a restaurant around in five days.

Dave Nitzel (23:05.546)
Well, especially when it's poor performing, like I'm sorry, but none of it's real. Like the whole thing is, is a fraud in terms of you can't turn around a failing bar and make it like phenomenal in five days. You can't teach leadership and ownership and management and all that in five days. And it's entertaining. I'm not saying it's not good TV. It's obviously good TV. I just don't

Chris Schneider (23:08.206)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (23:32.222)
I just don't like the image that it sends out into the world about independent bar and restaurant owners. There's so many great stories that, and I'd rather see, it'd be cool to see someone tell some of the really awesome stories, but I would imagine humanity wouldn't tune in, which is too bad. So.

Chris Schneider (23:40.696)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Schneider (23:51.982)
Well, that is true. do like our drama when it comes to our entertainment. And I'm with you, but there are so many great stories out there. for the record, if you guys have not, if you're listening and you have not read Hospitality of DNA, you need to pick it up because that book is really just telling those stories in such a wonderful way that has a lot of lessons baked into it.

Dave Nitzel (23:55.272)
We do, yeah.

Dave Nitzel (24:13.18)
I, you know, if I may too, like I just got, I don't know if you remember Dave Kaplan and death, hopefully Dave doesn't mind me saying this. Dave has found a way to do public funding for his growth. So you can buy ownership shares as if it's a, as if it behaves like a public company. Now the, now the payoff is more, it's more of an exit strategy sort of investment. It's not one. The, his, his level of thinking in this industry is

Chris Schneider (24:18.115)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Schneider (24:33.709)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (24:42.774)
cutting edge. It's so advanced and so unique and so different. I would keep an eye out for that because he's splashing a lot on social media right now where you can invest in the growth of Death and Co. I certainly have. I can tell you my business partners may have too. So like we're all in with that. From what I know about Dave and he does the investor calls. I was watching his investor call and I was like, is as good as any Fortune 5 call.

Chris Schneider (25:05.742)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (25:11.252)
cue that I've listened to in any, phenomenal. Let's tell that story. What a story that is. Even if the whole thing bombs, which it won't, but even if it did, look what he's doing. He's crowdfunding growth. He's into hotels, cocktail bars, consulting work that he does. Unbelievable stuff. Let's tell that. Let's talk about that. Not some, you

Chris Schneider (25:32.802)
Hmm

Dave Nitzel (25:40.404)
Wayward Bar, Seaside Wayward Bar, know, Captain Joe's Pub. I just, I don't know. We're getting away a field here, far a field here, but you know.

Chris Schneider (25:48.814)
you

We are, but let's pull us back in for a second because talking about creating an opportunity to tell good stories and to help people, we're working on a project right now that we should probably tease for everybody a little bit, which is a monthly support panel show that will be hosted, kind of, by the Bar Business Podcast, but is going to involve

Dave Nitzel (26:02.059)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (26:15.83)
Definitely hosted by the guard business podcast. No sort of.

Chris Schneider (26:19.662)
Well, I'm not giving myself all the credit, right? Because it was your idea, you brought it to me. But the idea there being that we're going to get a panel of people together from across the industry, where Dave and I are working on who that is now, and just put together some people to have a conversation once a month about the issues that we're facing. And I know I'm really excited because I just think that's to get a bunch of smart minds in a room.

Dave Nitzel (26:22.517)
Okay.

Dave Nitzel (26:26.006)
If you say so.

Dave Nitzel (26:34.848)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Schneider (26:48.13)
to have those conversations and to try to dig into what's facing us with, we have people that are operators that are gonna be involved. You I used to be an operator, we have people on the support end, we have people on the restaurant tech end that will probably be involved. So we have this crazy group and we're gonna have, looks like we're gonna have a solid panel of about five people and some people will be in and out and have some guest panelists as well.

Dave Nitzel (27:10.666)
Yeah, yeah.

Chris Schneider (27:12.792)
But I'm just super excited about the whole thing because I think it's going to be another great resource to tell good stories for the industry.

Dave Nitzel (27:18.322)
I hope so. it might even be true, like depending on how it goes. And if anyone listens besides my mom, maybe we take questions from the crowd too, like, hey, help us with this. I would love to, like for the next episode, we can do some prep work where if it's every 30 days, we can put some real work into doing a good job answering questions. I love doing this with you. Sometimes it's a little tough to sound really smart.

Chris Schneider (27:34.894)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (27:47.826)
answering from the hip, like what's the right answer to that? Give me 30 days to dig into something and we can come up with some really good answers to some tough questions. It's almost like group coaching a little bit. You're having these great conversations that help and are useful. So yeah, I'm excited about that. And by the way, just like with the panel, having people, some interchangeable parts, that's exactly why I really appreciate you.

Chris Schneider (27:50.274)
Right?

Chris Schneider (28:02.176)
Absolutely.

Dave Nitzel (28:17.622)
coming on and willing to do a coaching session with the group, because I love for them to hear other opinions. I love for them to hear from other coaches. don't view it as a competitive landscape. I mean, I just don't. I think it's a sign of strength when you invite others in and say, look, I want you to listen to Chris. This message on fighting, you these folks need some, you came in and did a wonderful one hour session on.

basically financials 101, maybe 101 and 102. And it was great. And that was stuff that a lot of managers just haven't really sat through before. Like exactly how do you calculate cost of goods? And how should I think about these different numbers? Anyway, I like the collaborative nature of disparate coaching resources coming together.

Chris Schneider (28:48.642)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Schneider (28:57.709)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (29:17.194)
to help the greater good is a really cool idea.

Chris Schneider (29:19.928)
Well, it is. And one thing that always strikes me, and I know Dave, you and I tend to agree on a lot of things. We're kind of scarily similar in some ways. But also we have different styles. We have different approaches. We phrase things differently. And something that I've told a number of people over the years as I've met with them is maybe I'm not the right person to coach you. We all have slightly different approaches. We all have slightly different ideas. We all have slightly different ways of communicating and ways that we operate.

Dave Nitzel (29:26.846)
Yeah, we do. Yeah.

Chris Schneider (29:49.27)
And it's really important, I think, to hear from all those different voices and say, OK, here's the person I align with best. This is the person I need to go talk to to help me out.

Dave Nitzel (29:59.462)
Absolutely true. That's we've had, like, for example, we've had people come into the group coaching program and say, this isn't quite for me. Love it, but just not quite for me. Totally get that. I've had people in the one-on-one that said, look, you seem Dave, you're a really good guy. Not for me. Awesome. And the reverse is true also. Like I have, I have a strict no asshole policy, like just not interested, right? Cause it brings everyone down. doesn't, it does just affect me, but affects everyone.

And again, just in a position where I don't, I don't need to work with an asshole. I just don't need to do that. so really enjoy all those bits, right? Find, like you say, find the right coach, get the person that can have maximum impact in your life. Get with a group of people that help lift you up, whatever that group is, there's lots of different groups out there that are great to be a part of from a business perspective. and, and we just want to, we just want to have a small offer.

like a sliver of an offer out there that says, this may be right for you. And I do think it's unique as it relates to the manager.

Chris Schneider (31:07.872)
I mean, I'm not aware of anything else on the market that's like it and I think it's unique and awesome and definitely if you're listening, it's something that you should check out. Now along those lines, because we're almost out of time for today, is there anything else that we have not talked about, Dave, that you would like to add to the conversation?

Dave Nitzel (31:16.15)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (31:26.422)
Probably not. mean, if you're curious, you can find us at Daveanddave.co, just C-O. You can email me if you like. It's just Nitzel, because there's two Daves. So it's nitzel at Daveanddave. What is it? Daveanddave. I don't even know what that email address is because I never use it. You can DM me on socials. What is my... I got to find my Daveanddave email address. The one I use typically is dave.nitzel at barmetrics.com. You can get me there.

as well. I have, I literally have five inboxes that I have to manage right now for all the different programs that I'm a part of, which is something I need to address. Like I have a, I have a problem. That's the first step in solving it. Right. So there's a lot.

Chris Schneider (32:02.819)
Right?

Chris Schneider (32:11.372)
Well, I just glanced over at my outlook and I have five too. So I'm right there with you. You're not alone.

Dave Nitzel (32:14.314)
Yeah, okay. So I'm not alone. Yeah, yeah. Okay. That makes me feel a little better. I think it's nitzel at Daveanddave.com is what it is on my email. That sounds right to me. And then it's Daveanddave.co for the website. And I'm easy to find on LinkedIn and Facebook and stuff like that too. So you can DM me there.

Chris Schneider (32:34.796)
Well, if you're listening, scroll down. We'll have all the links and all the ways to get a hold of Dave in the show notes. So we will and I'll make sure that we, Dave and I get together and check those before this airs. And so we have the absolute right ones there for everybody.

Dave Nitzel (32:39.281)
Thanks, man. Thank you.

Dave Nitzel (32:45.75)
Yeah, I should be better prepared.

Chris Schneider (32:51.714)
Hey, it's all right. Sometimes I don't know my emails either. So we'll have all that there for everyone. And with that, our time's up. Dave, thank you so much for being here.

Dave Nitzel (33:03.668)
Yeah, it's a pleasure as always. Thanks for having me.