Inside Tales of the Cocktail with Neal Bodenheimer

Dive into the world of cocktails with Neal Bodenheimer, one of the top bar owners globally and co-chair of Tales of the Cocktail. Discover the magic behind this iconic event and how it shapes the cocktail industry.

Neal shares his journey from a college bar bouncer to a leading figure in the hospitality industry. Learn about his passion for giving back through the Tales of the Cocktail Foundation and how it has become a cornerstone for bartenders and enthusiasts worldwide.

Uncover the secrets of Tales of the Cocktail, from its humble beginnings to its current status as a must-attend event for industry professionals. Neal discusses the importance of community, education, and innovation in keeping the spirit of cocktails alive.

Ready to be part of this vibrant community? Visit https://www.talesofthecocktail.org for more information and join the celebration. Don't miss out on the opportunity to connect, learn, and grow in the world of cocktails. 

Check out Tales on Social Media:

https://www.instagram.com/tales_of_the_cocktail/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/totc2023

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Transcript

Chris Schneider (00:01.454)
All right. Looks like we're recording. So Today we have a very special episode of the bar business podcast. Joining me is Neil Bodenheimer. He is one of the top bar owners in the world and is the person largely in charge of Tales of the cocktail and Tales. For those of you who don't know it's Friday. We don't normally drop an episode, but it's Tales starts Monday officially, but I think registration starts Sunday. Neil's going to give us some of that information. So we just wanted to jump in real quick.

and give you guys a little preview of what to expect if you're going and help you learn a little bit more if you have no clue what we're talking about. So Neil, first of all, thank you so much for being here.

Chris, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be on the podcast. And we've gotten connected before. And so it's nice to be able to sit here and chat with you one on one.

Absolutely. So as I mentioned in the introduction, just to give everybody a little bit of an understanding about your background, because you are absolutely one of the top bar owners in the world. You own multiple bars. I think you might even own a couple hotels. And I know that's not what we're here to talk about today, but give us just a real quick introduction on your background and kind of your journey in the hospitality industry.

Sure, well I've been doing this for a long time, so the journey is long and boring, but I'll do my best to give you some of the highlights. I'm not gonna give you my age, but I'll give you a few clues that I got my first bar job at age 18, which was 30 years ago. I was a bouncer at a college bar. I'm not a.

Neal Bodenheimer (01:41.058)
big guy, but I was a bouncer because I knew a lot of other 18 year olds because it was 18 to drink in New Orleans at that time. So that is how I got my first job. And of course I got the bug immediately. And I just always bounce in and out of hospitality. I went from bouncer and then I went to be a host at a fine dining restaurant. And I was just always in and out of hospitality.

I opened a restaurant with my brother in Malaysia above a dive shop where we earned money and ring it and did our best on an island running generators to run a little restaurant. And of course, we did not make enough money to justify walking away from our EuroRail tickets. So we eventually moved on.

But I just, you I moved to New York right after 9-11 and got a job working for Steve Hanson's company, Be Our Guest. And he was one of the first people to invest in a corporate mixologist who is still in and around hospitality. He's really talented guy. name is Evan Clem. And Evan took me under his wing and has been a big mentor for me over the years. And I just have been blessed to work with a lot of great people. And I eventually

I went to work for Danny Meyer at The Modern. then after Katrina, I moved back to New Orleans. after a few years, we bought a building and renovated it and helped revive the neighborhood that we were in. It's called the Furet neighborhood of Uptown and Open Cure in early 2009. And we are now officially 16 and a half years old. And we...

done a lot of great stuff there. have Cane & Table, which is a 12 year old restaurant, Cure is 16 and a half. We have a partner in a hotel called the Celestine, has a great bar in it called Pechos. Celestine has just got a Michelin key for the little hotel. We also have Val's, which is a really high volume, but delicious Mexican restaurant down the street from Cure. I'm a partner in Duffines in Washington, DC.

Neal Bodenheimer (04:00.138)
And I co-chair the Tales of the Cocktail Foundation, which is my nonprofit job and a passion of mine. And, you know, it's my way of trying to give back to the industry that has given me so much.

There is so much there right like I think we could probably talk about your background for for Hours, so hopefully I get you back on sometime to talk about that because it's not at all what we're here to talk about today So let's dive into Tales a little bit with Tales I know that this it had started it kind of got a base together and at some point it was getting a little rocky and then you jumped in with some folks and revived it and built it into what it is today, so

Tell us a little bit about kind of your journey getting involved with Tales and how you've built it up to where it is today.

Sure, so it has been a long journey. was, Tales started in 2002. The founder, Ann Rogers, built something exceptionally special and it kind of grew up as the craft cocktail movement grew up. It actually grew up with it and helped it grow. I went to my first Tales in either 2006 or 2007 and

And so God, I've been doing it for a long time as I think about it. And I was just amazed by it because I was still, I think I was still in New York and I just remember coming down and being like, my God, like all these people who I like admire their work and like there's a community around this. Like I just thought I was interested in only a handful of people were interested, but there's like something happening here and it's in my hometown. And so I was really drawn to it.

Neal Bodenheimer (05:49.234)
you it's interesting. I ended up meeting my future business partner, Perkstopinol at a Tales spirited dinner with the death and company did, and our, our, our mutual friend, Rob Cooper, who is no longer with us. And Rob was a terrific guy, a really great guy. And he introduced me and Kirk and we ended up working together and becoming business partners. And now we're still after almost 17 years, still business partners in Cure and.

Cane & Table and he's just a really, really wonderful guy and we wouldn't have met each other without Tales of the Cocktail. And so I'm not kidding when I say Tales has given me a lot.

What sounds like it. So how do you go from being someone that's going to Tales to being the co-chairman and running Tales?

Well, the founders had to make some pretty substantial mistakes. And I never had any desire to run Tales. But I did know all the positivity that it did, that it created around our industry and what it meant to New Orleans. mean, New Orleans may not be, historically may not be the home of cocktails. That's been disproven. But I do believe New Orleans is a spiritual home of the cocktail.

And so it is to me, it just belongs here and it, makes the city better. And it was really, and it also makes our summers are tough and Tales really buoys midsummer for us in a pretty substantial way. And I just knew that it was too important to let it fail and it would have failed. it was very close to, to closing up shop. and I stepped in with the Solomon family who were

Neal Bodenheimer (07:39.502)
you know, tremendous New Orleans family, like just so well regarded, amazing philanthropists. And they said, we want to do something to give back, but we really want it to be a nonprofit that creates its own revenue so we can then give away its profits. We don't want to have to go and pass the hat every year. And, and they know and like they both Gary, Gary and the entire Solomon family, they

they love hospitality. They have always loved hospitality. they were like, look, you know, we, we engage with chefs and bartenders and servers and, and all the, in this entire industry in New Orleans, and we love them and we want to show that we care. And they said, we would like to purchase Tales if we can figure out how to make it work. But we really,

won't do it unless you do it with us. And I had been trying to help the previous owners kind of find the right steward, not thinking that I was going to be involved. But I love Gary and Gary. And it's been one of the great honors of my lifetime to get to work with them. And it's just been wonderful. And I've gotten to work with just incredible people over the years. Our first executive director, Caroline Rosen.

who? Caroline neighbors, Rosen. and we might want to edit that out. she got divorced. So I have to, so Caroline neighbors, should I, should I just resay it? Yeah. Yeah. I've been really, it's been really blessed to work with great people, in the foundation, like Caroline neighbors, who was our first executive director, Eileen Weiner, who was our current CEO and our new executive director.

I just re-say it.

Neal Bodenheimer (09:37.386)
Charlotte Boise, who just left William Grant after years and years. can't even think about William Grant without thinking about Charlotte. And now she is our new executive director and we are just really thrilled. you know, it's just the level of talent and that's just in the leadership of our team. Our team, I could name so many people that we work with now and used to work with that are so talented and have done so much to help give back.

to the beverage industry. And that's been the great thing is that, not only are we creating a festival and doing fun stuff, our whole mission is to give back throughout the year. And that's what we do and I'm thrilled to be a part of that.

Well, it's really amazing how you guys bring everyone together because not only do you have this amazing staff internally, the folks that you bring in and the speakers you bring in and the educational opportunities you have and all these different pieces of what you do. It's amazing the talent you get and how large of a production this actually is.

I don't even know how we do it. I'm going to be honest. But so, you know, it's interesting. And that brings up a great point. And I'd be remiss if I didn't say that, you know, Tales is sourced by bartenders and bar owners and brand ambassadors and distillers. we, our job is to follow the industry, right? It's our job is for them. Like the industry has to tell us what they want.

and what they need. And that's our job to have our ear to the ground. But we can't do that without our incredible committees that come through. I mean, our education committee works tirelessly to put together the best education in the world. And our spirited awards committee does an incredible job making sure that the best bars in the world for this year. it's very timely. like we look at the previous year and we say, OK.

Neal Bodenheimer (11:45.494)
who is doing the best work over that time. And they work their butts off to do that. And our philanthropy and development committee, and they work their butts off to make sure that we're giving away our profits in the appropriate way, and that we're making sure that people that need grants, that we're putting money in the right hands for issues that are important to the industry. And it's just, it's awesome.

And I just, I'm so, I'm always so honored how many people get involved at Tales and how many people give their time and their talent to make it what it is. And it's not, I mean, it's, I mean, I'm not kidding. You you, you know, you hear the cliche, it takes a village. It takes a village plus plus to make Tales what it is. It is every single attendee makes Tales what it is. The magic of in-person gathering is, is

everybody that comes through and comes to support Tales in the industry in New Orleans.

Well, and one thing I think is really unique in what you just said, and too often I feel like in the hospitality industry, we have people from outside the industry say, this is what you want. And then they give us what they think that we want without actually knowing the industry versus the way you guys are handling it, which it's all organic from within the industry. It's okay. Not what some exec at some company thinks we want, but what the bar owner, the bartender, the server, what they actually want.

So it's really fascinating. there's always this push and pull in spirits, right? Between off-premise and on-premise, right? Between bars and restaurants and large beverage outlets like liquor stores and big box stores. And what means the most for spirits companies and wine companies and beer companies. it is, you know, often,

Neal Bodenheimer (13:43.342)
it often it skews towards off premise. But the reality is, is that there was just a study done by Forbes that said 83 % of luxury consumers, 83 % asked their bartenders what they should drink.

out

Bartenders build brands. Bartenders do this every night in a bar. And no, they can't sell a bottle of booze, unless you're at a club, can't sell a bottle of booze at a time. Yes, they have to sell it one pour at a time, which makes it harder to move. But if you talk about hearts and minds, bartenders win hearts and minds every time. And the really cool thing about Tales, really cool thing, is that we don't have to bring in outside consultants to tell us what bartenders

what they would people think bartenders need, like you said, right? The outside consultants come to us to learn from the bartenders to then go sell it somewhere else, right? Like this is the source.

Yeah, it's really education in the best way possible in that regard, right? And so we were looking earlier at everything going on at Tales. And I will tell you right now, if you're planning to go, I don't know how you would even do a tenth of everything that is offered, because it seems like for every hour of every day, you guys have three, four, five different events going on somewhere around New Orleans.

Neal Bodenheimer (15:14.124)
I mean, look, it is multifaceted, right? You could come to Tales and never go to one ounce of education and just go to brand activations and parties. And some people do that, right? You could go to Tales and only get education and never go to a single party and be like, wow, I had like the most in-depth education I can think of. But the reality is, is that Tales is...

Everybody has their own interests and Tales has a little bit of something for everybody and everybody. It's like choose your own adventure, right? And your, your experience at Tales is totally different than someone else's experience. And in that way, if you ask somebody what Tales means to them, you would get as many different answers as we have attendees. Because there is just, it really, takes, you could never do it.

You have to choose and you have to be or I mean, the more organized the better, but you have to be if you want to like hit as many things as possible. I have to say I've been known to do this. you know, if I, before I got involved on the, on the Tales side, I mean, I was running our, was running bars and restaurants during this week. and so I was at bars and restaurants, but the best way is to really just kind of go with the flow and like, and, and meet people and network and just.

you know, use them and I'll say the term again, the magic of in-person events and to network and to make real relationships. And that's what's and that's what matters to me. That's what I think really moves the needle about about Tales. So but given where we are and what you talk about, you let's we was funny. We were, you know, we were thinking about what we were going to talk about before this.

trying to strip down the million parts of Tales. And we successfully, I think, stripped down to what this podcast is about.

Chris Schneider (17:22.014)
Absolutely. So let's let's talk a little bit through those. And so for anyone that's that's going considering going what we're talking about, these are all Monday through Thursday of next week. registration does start Sunday though, right?

Yeah, it does. In fact, this is the first year that we're going to have registration at the airport. So we're really excited.

So fly in, register, and you're good to go.

Yeah, you literally on your way out of the airport, you can just go register. And the cool thing about our registration is that when what a lot of people don't know is our registration, you know, it I'm sure you can imagine that, you know, for everybody that works in bars and restaurants that listens to your podcast, you know, one of the most important things that we do is verify people's age to stay compliant, right? So our wristband, you have to verify your age to get our wristband. So

What people forget is that when they have a Tales wristband and they go to Tales, they're already verified. So you, if someone's like, I to see you already be like, Hey, I already registered. That's right here.

Chris Schneider (18:26.222)
So that makes everything easier for both the bar owners and the people operating established with the area and the people attending.

Yeah, exactly. mean, we spend so much time getting getting compliant with the Louisiana ATC and their incredible partners of ours. And we have to work really hard to make sure that that that every one of the thousand events that happens is is compliant, right? And that they don't have an ATC agent come through the door and be like, what are you doing here? Why are you breaking the law? So we want to we want to make sure everybody's doing it by the book.

So let's go ahead and let's talk through a couple of the things that are going on. Because I know there are some that we looked at and we said, OK, if you listen to this podcast and you're going to Tales, these are probably events that you would want to hit. so Monday, we're starting out. I know the first one is Mob of Mentors, which is one that you really enjoy. So tell us a little bit about it.

So Mob of Mentors is a recurring event that Bacardi has put on. This year it's put on by Patron, Division of Bacardi. it is, Lauren Moat is gonna run it this year and it's got Anna Sebastian and Ian McPherson of Panda and Sons and Eric Van Beek of Handshake Speakeasy, Alicia Perry.

of CH projects, Fei Chin of Double Chicken, Please, Danil Nevsky, who's an incredible personality from Indie Bartender Company, and then Diego Cabrera of Salmon Guru. And so really incredible, experienced people. it's an opportunity for people that are a little less experienced to go listen to people at the top of their game and explain their

Neal Bodenheimer (20:16.322)
their journey, their story, what they've learned. And it's funny, you would think that it would just be people that are getting their start in the industry, but like, I am equally interested as some, and so many people I know who are vets are just as interested in what this list of luminaries has to say. And in years before, it's all been different people. It's so fascinating and it's a great room to be in. I really...

think it's a don't miss.

Yeah. And I think that's a really good call out, right? Not always just because you've been in the industry forever. Maybe somebody else is doing something you haven't thought of yet. And so a panel like that, you can get one tidbit of information that can change your entire course in the industry.

I mean, you'd be I would think you would get more than one tidbit I mean like in most talks you hope to get that one nugget that you bring forward that you're like, my god This is like really made a difference on me like with a group of people that are that accomplished like it I would hope you get at least one, right?

Right? But regardless if you are, you're going to walk away with good content from that. looking a little bit later on Monday into Monday afternoon, we have content creators and cocktails, tell me if I'm mistaken here, but that's all about social media presence.

Neal Bodenheimer (21:30.318)
No doubt.

Neal Bodenheimer (21:41.944)
Correct. And just the fact that the algorithm, it changes all the time. we were just literally in my own company, Curco, we were talking about it, that it's like, sometimes it feels like social media has turned into traditional advertising. And good for them because they've got to make their, they got to make a buck, but it used to be that you use social media because

You know, could put a lot of energy in to get free advertising and you can still figure out ways to game that. But it's much harder to do it for free. Absolutely. But you know, it's, people, you know, this is a panel of people that really like live online and work online and make their career online. So like my, my good friend, Pamela was Knitzer is incredible. She makes incredible content. you know, there's Donald Adler.

Who's a senior social content producer for NBC Universal and Bravo? Sarah Snyder Who's the head of partner acquisitions for YouTube and then Caitlin Stewart who's got another? Incredible she's another incredible content creator and another great person from likable cocktails and she's also a bar and beverage consultant so it's you you really have like a little bit of like, you know

professionals in the world of content. And then you have two people in the bar world that are doing it every day in and day out online and making a living. I think it's a, certainly if you're around and you, I I think we almost all use social media at this point for our businesses. like, I mean, how could you not want to get better at it and learn more? it is a constant pursuit to stay on top of it.

Well, absolutely, and it all changes so quickly. mean, even if you live online, right, it's very hard to keep up on all this. And if you're a bar owner running around, it's almost impossible to keep up on all of this. And then Tuesday, there's another one called Breaking the Algorithm, which is again about content, how we get stuff out there and making sure you get delivery of your message.

Neal Bodenheimer (23:57.814)
Yeah, and I think that's an important thing, right? It's like, think, you know, you've got in the first seminar, you've got, you know, Pam and Caitlin, you know, who are who are online and who are are, you know, who are beverage influencers, and creators. And then, you know, you go into what's next is like, how do you, you know, I think what's really fascinating about this.

It's it's talk about breaking free from the echo chamber of the digital age, right? And I think that's really important that like it, it acknowledges that we've all kind of had to become, visual creatives and it's kind of trapped us in a cycle. And so I think this one is, is, is really interesting because it's talking about how we can break that cycle. And it's a, it's, it's looking forward. Whereas I think,

And I'm sure that the first one will look forward a little bit too, but I think this one is like what's working now. And I think that breaking the algorithm is like, how do you break out of what's now for what's next?

And then a little bit later on Tuesday because there's I mean there's just so much to talk about I'd love to dive into all these more but there's we really don't have the time so yeah looking looking forward on Tuesday then we have one Stand out and nail the interview which I think is is great because a lot of people that come to this right it yes There's a great content for bar owners, but also

There's great things here for bartenders, for servers, for people looking to get into management, for managers thinking about becoming owners. You really cover all of it. And so that's a great educational piece on just how to help people currently in the industry to get themselves ahead.

Neal Bodenheimer (25:44.204)
Yeah, I mean, look, that that is one of the important things that we do is that, you know, it's about progressing your career. You don't come to Tales because you want to get worse or stand still at what you do. You come to Tales because you want to get better. Right. And so what could be more important than figuring out how to nail an interview? Right. And figuring out how to make sure that you can make your dreams come true. And, you know, it's between Anna Sebastian and Douglas Lee and and Janiqua Davis. Like you've got like really

really competent people and accomplished people who can give you some of the tips and tricks that they've learned over the years.

And so then looking even later on Tuesday mind you guys this is It acts you guys when you're listening you probably think we're talking through a lot of this we're talking through maybe 1 % Well, maybe 5 % but it this is a minuscule amount of what actually goes on at Tales But if we look more towards the end of Tuesday how to PR your bar on a budget Which I think is a great topic with how many bar owners are out there that aren't Necessarily they don't have the marketing budgets that

a lot of the larger companies have.

That's exactly right. And what does PR do, right? What are the things that you can do on your own? What are the things where you might need PR so that maybe you can lessen the scope if you're gonna use PR? You've got Takuma Wanatabe, who's the beverage director of Martinis.

Neal Bodenheimer (27:23.026)
And know, martinis is certainly a media darling. And then you've got vice president of 18 PR Raven McMillan Ignacio Ignacio Jimenez Nacho from from Super Bueno, who's the operating partner there. I mean, he just won beverage, the James Beard for best beverage professional. And, know, and some of these companies have PR, don't get me wrong. But and also Joanna Lynn, I'm sorry.

And she does PR and social for employees only in martinis and shinji's You know so it's like Like Takuma and nacho like they like they certainly I would imagine have PR. I know nacho does for sure But you know the question is is are they paying a massive retainer or are they you know figuring out what their PR? you know how to pay PR efficiently and And how to stay on budget

Absolutely. that's, know from a lot of bar owners, that's very difficult to pull off that balance, which kind of takes us to one of the ones I wanted to talk about on Wednesday morning, which is profit with precision, three key steps for financially viable bar business. So if you listen to this podcast, that's probably the one that will sound the most like, what we talk about here on a regular basis.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look, that is, you know, that's, was very important for me to start when we, when we took over Tales, we wanted to kind of divide the education and make sure that business had a place at Tales because, the reality is, that, you know, I'm, I'm living proof. Like I didn't go to business school. I, I had to learn how to run, how to run a bar from, from other people. I had to make mistakes. I had to do all the things. And it's, it's important for us.

consistently to have seminars like this. you know, Kate and Erica are really, you know, very talented bartenders. Kate owns her own bar. And it just think it's really critical to understand how to make sure, you know, you can have lofty ideals, you can know what you want to do, you can want to do the most amazing stuff in the world. But if your business doesn't make money, and it's not viable,

Neal Bodenheimer (29:42.572)
It doesn't matter what you do because you're not going to be around to do it. And I just like, this is the kind of education that we do at Tales that I think if you're, if you're getting started or you're running a bar or you want to run a bar, like you got to make time to go, to go do these things. We have to do continuing education and professional development.

Well, and especially when, you know, the industry has not gotten easier post COVID.

no, has not. so it is as hard as hell right now.

looking at a couple other things on Wednesday. So one of the ones that I think is really interesting is talking about the global bar design revolution. So kind of digging into some of the, not what we're doing, but where we're doing it.

Yeah, I mean, look, it's, you bar design for the most part hasn't changed substantially. Like there are a few people that have, that have looked forward on it. And, know, these are three of them. I'm Tobin Ellis, who has bar magic and he has the Tobin Ellis stations for Perlick. I mean, Tobin has really changed the way that, that, that under bar is done in the U S and then, you know, Alexandra.

Neal Bodenheimer (30:56.778)
you know, sorry, Alexander and, I, looks like Sam, from his company might, might be stepping in. It's a little unclear from the description, but, you know, I know Alexander and he's incredible from, from behind bars. Their work is outstanding and they build, the European style bar stations, that have really taken, taken the world by storm and that their, their designs are just incredible. And then, April Wachtel.

of cheeky cocktails. And so, you know, they're sitting and talking about how we can change bar design to make our operations more efficient. You know, often, so many of us do cocktails now, and we have to design our bars appropriately, but we can only design our bars as well as the stations that are built for us. And so there's been this really incredible revolution in bar design and

And it's a great opportunity to learn more about it. And if you're renovating your bar or starting a new bar, how do you make it so that your team has the proper tools to just, pardon my French, kick ass, rather than have to work extra, doubly hard to do what they should, to get beverages out?

Well, and to me, one of the fun things about a seminar like that too, be these are the brand new changing things around the world. Well, heck, if you're in the Midwest, if you're in most of the South outside of New Orleans and Florida, things move real slow. And you can watch this and, and it digest it and put out something that no one's ever seen, but is also a tested concept with real proof behind it.

Yeah.

Neal Bodenheimer (32:42.018)
Yeah, that's exactly right. I actually think the next one that we were going to talk about is really interesting, which is about AI insights and social media, and it's called the future of profitability, which anybody you talk to, me, you, anybody that is running restaurants, bars, hotels, we are all trying to figure out how to get more profitable.

Because profitability has gotten so much harder, right? And naturally the things that we lean on to get more profitable are the insights that we get from different reporting, social media and trying to get people through the door and trying to engage outside of our four walls. But also AI, which we know is, you know, we're all just figuring out. And so it's a big discussion about profitability and how these

and how the things that exist in our changing day by day are going to affect that. And I've got two really good friends on this panel, Adrian Biggs, who's the director of trade advocacy for Bacardi, and then Gary Groover, who's the director of global beverage for Marriott International. And then they've got Simone Ventura from Bacardi and Melky Co. from the CEO of Ground Signal.

So really also another great conversation about how to make money. For years, I just wanted to do what I wanted to do and I hoped to be able to stay in business. And then the longer you're in this business, you realize that you're in business to make money. You have to figure that part out to be able to do everything else.

you have got to focus on profitability to do the things you want to do. you can go check out 1,000 seminars, but you've got to have these things about making money on there if you want to stay in business.

Chris Schneider (34:52.737)
Well, I don't know that truer words have ever been said. but a couple of things on Thursday I want to talk about before I let you go. One is small cities, big cocktails, which is, Thursday morning, which I think is great. Cause the time if I'm wrong here, but the concept there is owners of bars in smaller locations, not in New York, you know, Las Vegas, New Orleans, places like that. and what

Gather

Chris Schneider (35:21.858)
Their insights are based upon being in a smaller location.

Yeah. And so it really is, it's a pretty, important idea. Right. I mean, like, you know, we just talked about bar stations, like how many bars are in, you know, there are a lot of bars in New York and Los Angeles and San Francisco and Chicago, but like most of the bars in the U S are not in those markets. Right. And so like, how do you make sure that if you're putting a ton of time and effort and

And you really want, you know, you're putting national and international quality programs. How do you break out of your small city? and, and, and get the appropriate recognition. Right. And, Whitney has done a great job of boat drinks in St. Augustine and, and Nathaniel at gigantic and, and, and Joe Stinchcombe, at bar muse in Oxford, Mississippi. mean, it's, it's, it's, it's really cool. And,

It's something near and dear to my heart. really believe that, you know, I know this sounds crazy, but if Tales didn't exist, I do think New Orleans would be kind of a cocktail backwater. And we are not in the Tales helps bring people through through our city, but like we're not a big city. And, you know, how do you, you know, how do you keep up? How do you make sure that that, you know, if you're putting putting in hard work that you get noticed nationally and internationally, and I think it's I it's a worthwhile

discussion.

Chris Schneider (36:56.106)
Absolutely. And the last one I want to hit on real quick is the last great third space, why we must protect our social spaces, because I think that of all of them is playing into a lot of what we hear from Gen Z, from the younger millennials about not having spaces to hang out, not having spaces to get together. And bars really are a very unique third space in our society and always have been.

Yeah, I mean, look, even before the beginning of this country, in North America, bars played an important part. And they always have, and I hope they always will. I just think that there is something that happens when people sit together in person. And I'm a big believer in it, and we have to preserve them, because it's probably one of the things that's going to help keep our society together, right?

And you know, it's easy to tell someone to f off when you don't know who they are and you're doing it on a computer screen, but it's a lot harder to tell someone f off in person, right? Yeah, because you really have to listen to somebody and you have to do your best to see their perspective and that's how we solve our problems, right? And it's also how we meet each other. It's how you have these like really

Special, you know, it's it's it i'll say it again like a broken record. It's the magic of in-person And the magic of in-person is that you you can't There's no energy When you're on a on a you know on a video call, right? mean like we're doing it right now. We're having a great conversation But like it's not the same as being next to each other in person talking and riffing off of each other. It's just not and that

And that's just one aspect of this digital world that we live in. And I'm certainly here for the discussion. I think that we have got to figure out ways to get people together and in the same space more often. And I think it's critical for the future of our society.

Chris Schneider (39:06.282)
I couldn't agree more. So we've covered some great events that are going on in Tales. We've talked a little bit of history real quick so that everybody knows if they want, well, first question actually, just pulling this out of nowhere. I assume you can still register, right? So if you hear today, you can register, you can show up, you can be involved.

Yeah, if you haven't decided you're going to come to Tales, you can still get in your car or buy a plane ticket and come down like it's the summer in New Orleans. Hotels are cheap, right? Like it was built in the summer so the bartenders could afford to come. So it's not, it's never too late. It's never too late. And if you, and if you decide and you want to end up at some of the parties that the brands do, like ask the, ask the brands you work with in your home market. Be like, Hey, are you guys Tales? What are you doing?

Let me know, I'd love to go to your party.

Perfect. And if someone does decide randomly today, Hey, I want to do this. I'm going to get down there on Sunday. Where do they go to get more information?

Okay, tailsofthecocktail.org.

Chris Schneider (40:10.552)
Perfect. And so we'll link that down in the show notes so you guys can scroll down and see it.

And then the app for the festival is the WHOVA app. W-H-O-V-A, it's our conference.

So we'll put that information in the show notes as well. Neil, I have to say thank you so much for taking this time right before Tales starts to kind of give us a preview of what's going on. Is there anything that you think regarding Tales or anything else that we haven't hit that you would like to get out there before I let you go?

There's so many things. I think, you know, the only thing I would say is I would invite everybody who listens to your podcast to even if you don't come this year to come next year or the year after, like, be a part of this community, give back, get involved. Like this is this is the career we have all chosen. Like you've got to invest in your career. You've got to invest in your community. And we would love to see you.

Well, Neil, again, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate getting out of this conversation with you right before Tales start.

Neal Bodenheimer (41:17.39)
Well, thanks for giving me an excuse not to work. So I appreciate that. problem.