Party of Six - The Secret Ingredient to Memorable Bar Experiences with Katalin Bene

Join special guest Katalin Bene, and our normal panel:  Aoife Halliday, Dave Nitzel, Minakshi Singh, Cliff Crider, and Chris Schneider as they explore the transformative power of personal evolution in the hospitality industry. 

 Discover how Katalin overcame barriers and embraced continuous learning to create memorable guest experiences. Her story of resilience, innovation, and collaboration offers a rich tapestry of knowledge and inspiration.

Gain valuable insights into balancing passion with financial stability, the importance of mentorship, and the role of authenticity. Learn how these elements have shaped their careers and can fuel your own professional growth.

Tune in to this episode for practical tips on menu design, ingredient innovation, and building a supportive network. Whether you're new to the industry or a seasoned professional, this conversation offers inspiration and actionable advice.

📌Start Here
🔴If this is something you’re dealing with in your bar, don’t figure it out alone.
 
Join Bar Business Nation — the free Facebook group for bar owners talking through staff, slow nights, profit leaks, and better ways to run the business.
→ https://www.facebook.com/groups/barbusinessnation

📌Additional resources
🔴Grab the books “How to Make Top-Shelf Profits in the Bar Business!” and “Menus that Sell” here:
→ https://barbusinesscoach.com/book/ 

Transcript

Chris Schneider (00:01.664)
Today on Party of Six, we're going to be talking all about evolution, personal evolution, business evolution, and those pivots and changes you make in your life. We also have a fantastic guest joining us today who I will introduce in just one second. But to give you the normal panel, joining us today is Cliff Crider of Stinger Compliance and Truck and Tap, Aoife Halliday of the Ruckus Group and Barmetrics, Manoxi Singh of Sidecar Cocktails and Dreams, The Brook and the India Bartender Show, Dave Nitzel of Dave and Dave Consulting,

Aoife (00:25.842)
Thank you.

Chris Schneider (00:29.546)
Me, Chris Schneider of the Bar Business Podcast and the Bar Business Coach. And our special guest today is Kat Bene. She is the former manager of the Gibson in London, the former manager of Voodoo Reyes in Geneva, and currently the founder and creative director of Blend & Bond Consulting in Geneva, where she works all over Europe doing some really cool stuff. And if you haven't seen her, go look at her Instagram. There's a bunch of cool things on there. I was watching right before we started. Kat, thank you so much for being here today. Hopefully I did not.

Katalin Bene (00:33.092)
. .

Chris Schneider (00:57.846)
botched your introduction too much, but because I feel like everybody knows who we are, go ahead and tell everybody a little bit about you, because you're new to the show.

Katalin Bene (01:07.797)
Well, first of all, thank you for the invitation. Hi everyone. I'm Kat. I currently live in Switzerland actually. But originally I'm from Transylvania, Romania and not many people know that about me. Not much to say. I'm just gonna wait for your questions because I don't want to talk about myself.

Aoife (01:24.43)
Thank

Dave Nitzel (01:26.653)
Thank

Minakshi Singh (01:27.021)
you

Katalin Bene (01:32.105)
introduce myself too much.

Chris Schneider (01:36.202)
We want to know about you. So I'm just going to ask you straight up a question then, which is this, because one of the things we wanted to talk about today was really about evolution. Because I know I've been through some business evolutions recently. Cliff has been through some business evolutions recently. I know your story, shameless plug for Dave, if you go read Hospitality DNA, your story is in there. And he does a really good job at telling it. But your story is a story of evolution, right? Moving all over Europe, finding these different places.

really growing in the industry as you move. So how does someone from Romania end up at one of the top bars in London and then one of the top bars in Geneva? Right? was, yeah, Voodoo was in Geneva and then end up in consulting. So like, how does that arc even happen? Because I feel like that's pretty unique in the world.

Katalin Bene (02:21.763)
Yes.

Katalin Bene (02:29.57)
Well, it all happened during I think almost 20 years. I'm just a small-town girl from Transylvania. It's really the village where we say even the bus turns around. I didn't speak Romanian back then actually because I'm a Hungarian minority from a group, a Hungarian minority group and I just went to study. I knew I want to go away because I...

could imagine my life there. So I accidentally ended up in a bar because I was just looking for job. And I think everything else just happened from there. Like I really fell in love with the bar industry. I love bartending, making drinks, hosting people. For me, it was always about the people. think it really was like super special for me, meeting new people.

Aoife (03:18.526)
Thank you.

Katalin Bene (03:27.084)
taking care of them, seeing them happy. So I always wanted to be better and better. honestly, in Romania back then, I was one of the first girls in the bar. Because even today, the ads go like we're waitresses and barmen. So there are still more girls now, but back 20 years ago, it was super rare. And me being a Hungarian minority, a woman and queer.

It was definitely not like a wild card for me. So there was a bit of struggle and instead of victimizing myself I think I just decided that I want to be the best. I don't know, I want to know all the spirits, want to be blind tasting things and make cocktails and have great techniques and just learned and learned everything I could alone and that's how I learned English as well. Dave knows that already, I told him.

Dave Nitzel (04:24.784)
Mm-hmm.

Katalin Bene (04:25.952)
my story. I read Joy of Mixology from Gary Regan and that's how I learned English basically. And yeah, I ended up in London because at one point I met Marian Becquet, the owner of Gibson, at an event in Romania and he just straight offered me a job and I was like, my god, like how...

Aoife (04:34.248)
Bye.

Katalin Bene (04:53.142)
can I get this opportunity, you know? It was insane for me but I tried to keep my cool and not tell him anything and then I just contacted him in a week and said like, thank you so much, is it still valid? in the beginning I supposed to work at Niger and in the end he said like he's gonna open the Gibson and I had to wait another year but yeah I just ended up straight in London.

in one of the best bars and I also asked myself many times like how did I get this but I guess if you work hard and just it's you versus you at one point you just get somewhere it's not possible to stay in one place

Aoife (05:24.948)
Thank

Aoife (05:44.884)
Did you end up in Nightjar first and then the Gibson?

Katalin Bene (05:51.489)
No, no, no. originally he wanted to call me, hire me for Niger, but then he made the plans to open the Gibson. So he told me like if I don't mind, because you know, it's not nice to bring someone and then you leave and then you take your stuff. Like he was very professional. So he told me if I mind, don't mind waiting. Of course, I didn't mind waiting. And I waited one year and I didn't tell anyone I'm gonna go work there. And then...

Just at one point someone posted I think something about us behind the bar and everyone went crazy back home like how what are you doing there? People didn't even know that I'm there.

Aoife (06:36.307)
Amazing.

Katalin Bene (06:36.501)
But that was, I can say that was also kind of like a payback time for me because as I said, I was often pushed on the side or I like never won local competitions. I was always second place. It was like a lot of funny things happening back then. And like the first time I went abroad.

Dave Nitzel (06:36.56)
That's cool.

Katalin Bene (07:02.867)
I won a competition in Netherlands, for Romania actually. Then, the first time I went to work abroad, I became the bar manager of the Gibson. So, I guess it was a nice feeling to just be there and feel more empowered and just prove everyone wrong, even though I don't have to prove anyone anything, it just feels good still.

Aoife (07:31.09)
Hello?

Dave Nitzel (07:31.837)
You know, Kat, I do know a little bit about your story. So I have a bit of a head start on the group. And today talking about career revolution, I love the fact that, um, like you're a small town girl, you're kind of in the middle of nowhere. You don't have the odds are stacked against you, but I like that you say, Hey, I'm not going to, I'm not going to be a victim. Cause really no one's coming to save you or any of us. Right. You kind of have to make your way with a close group of hopefully friends and support and that sort of thing. Was there a way that you saw?

or identified opportunities and you said, hey, I'm just going to go for it. Like I've been fortunate to sort of watch your career progression over the last, I don't know, seven, eight years or whatever. So I see the movement and I see the progression. Do you have a way of thinking about your career or is it more instinctive where, you know, do you see an opportunity, you know, it's a good one and you take it or is it more

Katalin Bene (08:19.552)
So yeah, it's not instinctive I have to say that I

Dave Nitzel (08:30.62)
well thought out, like with going to London, you you saw an opportunity, you took it, but there was a little, you had a little bit of a plan or a hope aligned with that. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Katalin Bene (08:49.179)
I don't really follow my instincts. I always make a plan for the next three years and then I write down every single detail and then whatever decision I make I just think about my plan. Does it help me get there? No? Then it's a destruction. that's how I basically...

made every single decision in my life. I really wanted to go and work for London and guess what? Marianne was one of my idols. When I studied in Niger, I think second best bar or third or something like that back then and I saw their menu and I was like, my god, like I don't understand half of these things and I still didn't speak very well English. So I honestly cried.

Because I told that I am at a certain level and I was but still it made me like upset of myself and I was like no I'm not good enough it was like wake up girl keep pushing and I made a plan. My plan was to only learn in English from that moment because if I ever get an opportunity in London or a job interview if they talk to me ask me about some ingredients some techniques or anything related to the bar I won't know

The answer, not because I don't know it, but because I don't understand it, that's not good. And the second thing was learning absolutely everything I could, even without money, because I don't know if I told you that I didn't have my family supporting me since I was 18, since I left from home. So I was just by myself and I couldn't afford buying shakers, books or anything. I...

basically had like a small Samsung phone and At the work on the Wi-Fi I just downloaded absolutely everything from Google everything I could for free and that's how I studied And yeah, like I learned every day my rule was minimum 30 minutes a day Most of the time was more but imagine all my lunch breaks all my like after shift why people were having beers

Aoife (10:52.724)
Thank

Katalin Bene (11:10.714)
after the work I used to like have my small notebooks and I was reading books and people were making fun of me very very often but now they are like some people telling me today that there was a guy who worked at the place in Cluj where I used to work and he was like Kathleen you don't even know what you did whenever I was like feeling down or I

Dave Nitzel (11:19.452)
you

Katalin Bene (11:38.683)
I was telling them like this is too much they were telling me like what is this too much? Katlin was reading a whole book about pepper and you think this is too much? So I was always the example of it's possible and yeah so they couldn't even complain because of me

Aoife (11:49.108)
Thank you.

Dave Nitzel (11:53.136)
Yeah.

Dave Nitzel (11:58.077)
That's incredible. I have a bunch of questions, but everyone's gotta get a turn.

Aoife (11:58.324)
Thank

Minakshi Singh (12:02.892)
Yeah, want to definitely, Katelin, firstly start with what an amazing journey, absolutely inspiring and everything that you've just said. I'm like so, so interested in hearing all of this in so much more detail. But a little bit more on maybe your experience of Gibson. Of course, you said that you dreamt of this, you know, break that you got career break, the experience being in a big city like London. Of course, experience would have been monumental, I'm assuming, to you and your experience. But if you could share a little bit more about what was that like?

Aoife (12:27.847)
you

Minakshi Singh (12:32.816)
maybe a year or two that you were there and how did you then you know end up getting in the leadership role and of course winning all the things that you want after that.

Katalin Bene (12:44.09)
To be honest, I went to Gibson and I didn't know what position I'm gonna work at and I didn't know my salary, I didn't know where I'm gonna stay. So I just moved to London because my aunt told me two weeks before opening, like, I'm opening in two weeks, can you come? And I was like, yes, I will come. So I packed everything into suitcases and I moved to London and stayed on a couch with a friend until I found a flat. And then...

The first month I was basically just doing all the preps, all the shopping and organizing all the recipes and everything behind the scenes and three months after Marianne asked me like, hey do you want to be the bar manager? And I was like, Marianne I'm not sure to be honest, like I don't think I'm ready for this. And then he told me like, well either you take it now or maybe you won't have the opportunity because someone else will come and take this position and...

And I was like, okay, well, let me think about it and then next day I accepted it and to be honest, it was a trip I Did basically almost the same things but it just went on a larger scale I think the Gibson is not like was not a typical bar experience because everything was

Minakshi Singh (13:53.422)
You

Katalin Bene (14:08.189)
On the very extremes like 44 drinks everything homemade everything made on the spot. No pre-batching one station it was like crazy garnishes and everything and I think it just at one point I I felt like it's it's not me and I think in like one year like especially we got the sixth best bar in the world title and and I just

started to feel like I'm kind of like on autopilot that I'm I cannot say I'm burned out because I don't really understand even today what burnout means because I don't know that we don't we are not allowed to be burned out right but I guess I was kind of like empty inside that's how I would describe it now I was lost I was in a bubble

Minakshi Singh (14:54.072)
Yes.

Katalin Bene (15:06.461)
and I wasn't happy with myself and where I am as a person or as a professional. Even when everyone sees outside the titles and the awards and all that, it's not just to this. For me, as I said, the work is more about people and I just felt like I need to do more or I need to do something else and so I quit and...

Everyone told I'm crazy because I moved to Switzerland after this experience because the investors of Gibson were living in Switzerland so they offered me the opportunity to do wood arrays actually. They asked me like would you like to come and manage do this bar in Switzerland and I was like yeah sure why not let's go. I just need a better work-life balance I need to find myself.

Aoife (15:37.876)
Hmph.

Dave Nitzel (15:51.878)
you

Katalin Bene (16:00.812)
And I'm from Transylvania, from the mountains, with a lot of bears and forests, so I was like, Switzerland sounds like home. So I could get used to that. And I don't regret it. I think it was, in the eye of others, was a big step back, but for me was the biggest step forward actually. Because everything happened.

Cliff Crider (16:08.383)
you

Minakshi Singh (16:08.472)
Yeah.

Katalin Bene (16:27.884)
and shaped my career was actually after that point. So most of people don't even know that I worked at the Gibson. They just meet me for me and then maybe at one point they find out but I don't usually talk about it a lot. For me it's not like something like it adds to my value. Like for me it's always like do you like me for who I am or not and if you don't like me no problem like don't not everyone has to like me.

which is again a result of me moving to Switzerland and finding myself because as I said I don't have to please anyone I just have to be me and just do what's best for me and go for whatever I want to go for

Aoife (17:20.884)
Amazing. How long were you in London in total, Kat? I think you and I may have crossed paths because we were in London at the same time. I laughed very hard at the sofa arriving and sleeping on a sofa because everybody that I ever knew that worked in a bar with me and myself, we all landed with a backpack and slept on a sofa for a couple of weeks when we arrived in London in the early 2000s.

Minakshi Singh (17:21.806)
well.

Katalin Bene (17:30.842)
Okay.

Katalin Bene (17:49.583)
I stayed I think almost three years in London. I did the events after the Gibson so I still stayed a little bit and I did like some nice events and just I did a lot of sports, tried to be eat healthy and tried to like get back to me and then I moved to Switzerland. But yeah I didn't want to stay because for me it was like great for career because the London standards are like absolutely...

For me it's at the top level. So if you bartend for example 20 years in Romania or 2 years in London, the 2 years in London in a good bar will still crush the 20 years in Romania for example. So it was really great to put all my standards at the top level. But overall I felt like I'm in a machine, like a cog in a machine. I think it's not...

I mean, I could do that, but it's not because I'm weak. It's because I just still want to be happy and I just really want to do what I love. And I like to go to work and, you know, like be happy I'm there. I love my job. So the moment someone has to like think about it, like, I'm not happy or I'm not going to work. Like I don't love my job anymore, maybe. Or I stop learning or I stop.

Being curious, I think this is the time to leave this and when you are comfortable because when you are comfortable again, it's maybe time to leave as a bartender.

Aoife (19:28.722)
Yeah, I think that's the key to most evolution and careers as well too. When you stop learning or you stop growing or you're feeling suffocated in a way, then it's the next stage of the evolution.

Katalin Bene (19:42.007)
Yes, and anyways, we never ready, right? Like, I still do the 30 minutes rule. Even today I'm 39 years old. I turned last week 39. So I still keep learning and I still keep like looking for things. So the evolution never stops. I think it actually gets harder. The more you know, the more you realize how much you don't know. And it's just an endless loop, I think.

Aoife (19:47.764)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (20:06.096)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chris Schneider (20:07.519)
you

Aoife (20:07.782)
Okay.

Katalin Bene (20:12.056)
The important is not just to stick with drinks and ingredients but like look, grow and make a plan. I made a plan also consciously about my career because you cannot bartend all your life. I mean you could but what... Maybe I want more. I think that's something what...

What always shaped me, even as a small town girl, like I knew I want more, more than just being a good wife that is told what to do and smiles through everything and cannot have a needs or cannot have a say in anything. Like I just knew I want more. cannot live like that. I wanted to explore and to see as much as I could. And nothing stopped me, like moving to...

The city in Romania I had to learn Romanian and moving to London I had to learn English because otherwise I wouldn't get the job. Moving to Geneva, well, I had to learn French, guess what? Because French is the official language in that part and it just doesn't end.

Chris Schneider (21:19.339)
you

Aoife (21:27.422)
Can I ask you one last question about your time in and around London? Did you ever drink tequilas at Casita?

Katalin Bene (21:37.049)
In London? No. I didn't go anywhere in London. To be honest I visited maybe like six bars in the area because I was always working. So I used to sleep two, three hours a night. I remember from this sometimes the one hour was on the night bus until I got home and just getting home, shower, get ready my shirts and in the morning I just got up and put on everything and I left.

Aoife (21:43.188)
Thank you, more dedicated.

Katalin Bene (22:06.944)
So there was never food in my fridge, there was like nothing else. I just pushed my limits and I don't regret it. It was still a good experience, a good learning experience and it also shaped me who I am.

Dave Nitzel (22:10.204)
Thank

Dave Nitzel (22:27.558)
Cliff, do you have any questions?

Aoife (22:28.116)
It's like being in a army.

Cliff Crider (22:29.215)
I mean, I just think it's outstanding the curve of what you did. mean, because we've got 50, 60, 70, 80 employees and they're mostly in their 20s, some are in their 30s and 40s, but the evolution of watching them either go off to nursing school, go off to construction, stay in the business, it's just, but my God, to only sleep three hours, that's just incredible. I mean, so...

Good for you. mean, this was no accident. You've got so much passion. You're picking up, I mean, sometimes I'll give books away and people don't read them. I mean, you're just devouring all the knowledge that you can. So, you're not going off to culinary school in Paris and learning about pepper. You're reading about pepper, probably buying pepper and tasting it.

Aoife (23:09.352)
I'm

Katalin Bene (23:18.857)
Yeah, yes everything I really

I'm everything I can, the weirdest things, I'm gonna try it, I'm not scared

Cliff Crider (23:27.135)
So tell me, I love that, because we're a little bit more of a dive bar and we try to do what we do, in a good way. I mean, the other day I bought a couple of grapefruit juices from the store because I was not really happy with the grapefruit juice we have. And some of it just tastes like ass. I mean, it was just horrible. You know, in a can, 100 % grapefruit juice, but it just tastes horrible. And then you got this other stuff we're all using. It's grapefruit juice, but it's not. It's called Splash. It's got...

water, sugar, grapefruit juice, you know. So, yeah, yeah, and so no one's really tasting this stuff. people are ordering it, no one's complaining. So that's our level of blind tasting, is going to the store and taking a couple of grapefruit juices. How much of all that, how much of blind tasting goes into what you do and what you learn and what you know about ingredients?

Katalin Bene (23:59.327)
Acids and all that. Yeah.

Katalin Bene (24:11.864)
I it's one of the most important parts because you can read all the books Like in Romania I used to actually where I'm from. I didn't even know grapefruits. I didn't know green tea. I didn't know Ginger I didn't know anything because it's like such a small village that

we used to grow and eat what we harvested. it was like a super... Now everyone calls sustainability like a large hot topic in the industry. For me it's common sense to go forage pick herbs, that's your medicine, and grow your seeds into something and then harvest and then grind it and make grass from it and so on so on. For me sustainability is common sense otherwise you die, you starve.

So reading all these books basically you can read about all these fruits or anything but if you never try them, never taste them, you don't know what's the texture, you don't know the aromas, like you can't read that, you need to taste it. And that was actually one of the reasons, another reasons I wanted to move to London because you could find everything there.

I could find actually mangoes, Alphonso mangoes, straight from India and I was like, my god, this is something incredible, I still remember it and you know, I developed something through the years that you can tell me any given ingredient and I know I taste it already. Like I taste it and I know the texture. Even like combinations of things, it can be food, it can be drinks, I just...

read it and I know the combination, I can taste it, it's a weird thing.

Cliff Crider (26:07.455)
So what surprised you, it's interesting, coming from a small farming community, when you went to London, on the taste level, what surprised you the most? I mean, you mentioned mango, you mentioned ginger, but what did you taste that you went, oh my God, what's this?

Katalin Bene (26:25.064)
I the peppers, I love peppers, like I peppercorns, right? So, like I was reading about all these peppers from this book and then I had the chance to finally taste them. So like the Himalaya pepper or I don't know, Campot pepper, Alligator pepper, like there's like so many types of peppers and I was like, my god, like this small spice, it's a pepper and how different it can be and how like...

Dave Nitzel (26:47.044)
you

Katalin Bene (26:51.498)
Powerful and and then I always say I'm like a pepper, you know, like small but powerful

Dave Nitzel (26:56.886)
Hahaha

Cliff Crider (26:57.951)
So is there a pepper that goes well in a certain drink or is there a pepper liqueur that you like using? Because I know there's ancho-reyes, is I think, I can't remember what kind of pepper that is, but I mean the pepper, because we'll do a spicy margarita and it really, I mean sometimes, like again, we just throw some hot pepper in there and call it that, but I mean there has to be a culinary way of making a nice cool pepper that is a little more aromatic, that's not so hot.

Aoife (26:59.109)
you

Katalin Bene (27:27.765)
Yeah, well, sorry, I was speaking about peppercorn, which is also hot and can be hot and spicy as well. But same goes for pepper. I also love peppers. The green one, sorry, in my language, pepper is for the peppercorn. And then I always forget to specify it. Yeah, you can, you can distill.

Cliff Crider (27:32.275)
Right.

Cliff Crider (27:43.263)
Pepper is pepper, yes.

Katalin Bene (27:51.317)
For example, he doesn't distill, so if you distill ancho chilis, then you can have all this green vegetable taste without having the very like a hot sensation. But I have to say I pushed so much and I keep trying and prepping and doing crazy things, but for me, as I said, it's all about people. So I really changed my perspective since we spoke, Dave. Because...

Already when you are a bar manager you have to deal with the staff and you need to make sure that they understand what you expect from them. And you can always speak about what is most important is how people feel in your bar, right? But if we are not able to teach that and also it's so abstract, like how do we teach it? How can I train someone to make someone have memorable experiences? It's not just what we are doing, right?

It's not just making the drinks and these ingredients. And I have to say in the past maybe five years, this is the topic I really dig myself into. And this is also the reason I did my startup, because it's still kind of like a startup, because some months I have clients, some months I don't have clients, you know, and then I'm actually...

I told Dave when he asked me if I'd like to join and I said like, well Dave, honestly, I'm not in the, like a high point right now because I'm just having a startup. So I'm just a girl like trying again to find a way and, but yeah, I think.

Minakshi Singh (29:32.835)
you know what you're saying is like the industry right now probably is going through what you are talking about and you know like I feel the evolution is across the board and you can hear this in all the rooms now like it's great to get into ingredients and taste and travel and all of that but what do you do with all that

right? Is that transpiring, is that experience transpiring to just you? Is it your ego? Are you satisfying your knowledge of Pepper or is that is the guest in front of you excited about Pepper as well? So I feel like we are all in the same, you know, we end up becoming in these echo chambers and that is a typical any industry situation that happens, right? You pick up a book and suddenly somebody's geeking out on bubbles constantly and you're like, oh amazing, aeration is so important and I remember like

Katalin Bene (30:00.304)
Exactly, exactly, yeah.

Minakshi Singh (30:21.104)
year ago I was mad about radiation and then I realized it's fine it's just you know it's one element of something that you got to do but the larger picture is this what you're doing and what you're talking yeah so I feel like I feel like that's where the industry is at and you're constantly now hearing how important it is to deliver the experience and you know drinks will always be you know here and there sometimes you know what I mean like you know things

Katalin Bene (30:26.119)
Yes

Katalin Bene (30:32.447)
The experience, no?

Katalin Bene (30:46.139)
Drinks.

Yes, well that's why I shifted the discussion to this as well because maybe I didn't want you to get the wrong impression of me just being the geek. I'm still a geek but for me as I say the people in the whole experience is more important like you can just give a simple classic but everything else is so amazing that guests will always remember you.

Minakshi Singh (31:11.404)
Yeah, no Cleopatra. I I think we are going through a going back to the dive bars, going back for the experience bit. And you know, you're right smack dab in the middle of that. So you what you're doing right now is like you are simplifying the experience. And I think that is what right now.

Chris Schneider (31:11.902)
Yeah.

Chris Schneider (31:20.843)
Thank

Katalin Bene (31:21.23)
Yeah

Minakshi Singh (31:27.672)
consumers and guests are looking for simplification rather than complex experiences. I think a lot of that is happening right now as we speak of evolution. think we all are going through this, Katelyn. When you said you did this earlier, of course, that was the way you've come to this, right? That was your journey, which...

Katalin Bene (31:32.786)
Yes.

Katalin Bene (31:38.173)
Yeah.

Katalin Bene (31:45.612)
Of course, yes. Like it's like a loop. So you go through something and then you realize like there is always a bigger picture because there is always a bigger picture. It's never just what you see. You just need to open your perspectives all the time and look at the bigger picture. And the more you can put yourself in the guest's place or in other people's place, the more you can see and more you understand. But...

Minakshi Singh (31:48.95)
Yeah.

Aoife (32:03.976)
I mean.

Chris Schneider (32:12.075)
So there are a few things that have really struck me through the last few minutes of this conversation. One is, you're talking about evolution, right, and how you kind of had to bounce from thing to thing, because I look around at everybody, I don't know that any of us have done the same thing for more than like three or four years before we're like, this is boring, we're gonna go do something else. Right? Because all of us have done probably more than most people would think about. But I think that's part of potentially achieving success in

Minakshi Singh (32:12.142)
Yeah.

Chris Schneider (32:40.339)
right is to be able to go out there do a whole bunch of different things realize what you're good at realize what you're not and and play to that. The other piece that's really struck me is this and I want to get more into this this move towards people because I feel like not only to to Monachie's point the industry is doing that but I also feel like a lot of us have done that in that everything is really really cool and interesting but at the end of the day right hospitality only works because you take care of people.

And that's something that I've talked to a lot of other folks outside of this group recently that came up in the eighties and the nineties and the seventies, like older people in the industry. And a lot of them were like, yeah, back then it was all about people. And then we kind of got into how cool we are. And now we're going back to it's all about people. Cause how cool we are was really fun, right? It was really fun to rediscover cocktails and techniques and ingredients and

especially in America, where I think the 70s part was like, do you want a Jack and Coke or Miller Lite? Like there were two options, they were both kind of suck. So it was really fun for us to evolve. But now we're kind of coming away from that. Because we can take that piece and what we've learned, and move on to the people. And then the final thing I just want to throw out there, the fact that you go, hey, I'm kind of new to consulting, and sometimes I have clients and sometimes I don't, is like the most relatable thing in the world as someone who does consulting. Because I will

Aoife (34:00.134)
you

Katalin Bene (34:04.535)
I know.

Chris Schneider (34:05.405)
I swear to you, Dave and I had this conversation like last week on the phone. We're like, Dave, sometimes I'm like really rolling in it. And sometimes I just I'm eating ramen because I'm broke, because nobody hires me this month. And so it is it is the most relatable thing. And I think it's something that a lot of people forget. Like when they listen to this podcast, right, they watch us and they go, these guys are they must have all these clients, they must be just

Dave Nitzel (34:17.446)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Schneider (34:32.571)
like we're just kind of small business people that are kind of struggling one day after the other, trying to fit a bunch of different pieces together to make some money. And it's not this isn't an industry whether it's on the bartending side, the bar ownership side, the consulting side, like anything around bars, you cannot do this for money. Right? You have to do it for love. And sometimes if you do it for love, you can make the money. But if you do it for money, I feel like you always fail and you're always disappointed.

Aoife (35:02.548)
100%.

Dave Nitzel (35:04.582)
Yeah, I was going to ask you, Kate, about your venture into coaching and consulting and sort of what you hope to get out of that. And frankly, everyone here is a coach or a consultant in some form or fashion. All of us are. So could you tell us a little bit about that evolution? Like where are you right now and what type of coaching that you aspire to do and how big and

famous and powerful do you want to get?

Katalin Bene (35:34.866)
I am actually halfway halfway. That's a good question. I'm really halfway For me the biggest Challenge was finding what makes me different because if you look at Let's say LinkedIn you see 1 million consultants

Cliff Crider (35:36.03)
Ha ha ha.

Aoife (35:37.108)
Where are you in the three-year plan for the coaching?

Katalin Bene (36:02.049)
Okay, so what is something that I am good at and I can change or I can help and I can really solve a problem and I'm not gonna just knock on a door and offer I don't know menu design a concept And as I say it for me, I noticed something during the years. It was exactly what I talked about It's like how do you train your stuff? How do you teach them to make sure that the guest experiences what you imagined as an owner or as a manager and

Actually, that's how I ended up with Costin in Bucharest because you know Costin was also featured in this book for me Costin is like a mastermind and for me is also like a business mentor in the same time Because we are kind of too crazy creative ADHD people like when we speak no one understands us because we are in our completely in our words and I just realized like I

I that when he talks to his stuff, he really comes and tells them what he expects and he explains things to them and presentations and everything and I realized that but Costine, like, they don't understand. Like, it's like for them, you speak in a code, they don't have the keys for this code, like they don't understand it. So what I'm doing is basically translating a vision and making them in measurable format, like I...

work with like one of the things is I noticed that the guests are always like in a passive position. Whenever you go to restaurant or to a bar you are just being served like they show you this cool cocktail or this Michelin plate or there is something that you just experience it by eating it or drinking it right? So for me the biggest

Change is like how do we make an active part in our story because everyone says storytelling is important but what kind of storytelling are we talking about? Because for me the deepest level of the storytelling is when they are part of this story. You bring them in. It doesn't matter if it's a bar, it's a restaurant or it doesn't matter if you are doing a competition, a presentation.

Katalin Bene (38:25.039)
You have a limited time and then how do you bring those people into your story to make them feel some emotions? Because we always say people remember what they feel, not what they drink and there is a very famous saying, right? But like how do we get there? And I have a way of designing, measuring and creating experiences that actually get to this result and I can also teach them.

and make the people feel it so they can actually deliver it and that's something I do differently and it doesn't matter if it's a Negroni or is it a very, I don't know, a Rotovap cocktail or whatever we are delivering it's just about... it's the whole experience, like what gets to the guest, what they feel and because for example surprise is very important

And surprise whenever we surprise someone with something We just break the autopilot so that's what makes things like for them things a bit more memorable, but there is like a whole level of elements that I work on and I make sure those are there and then I know I can measure it and I can also deliver it I can train it and it's

proven already that it works. So it's not just a theory but it's been proven in multiple forms and it always gets to a wow moment. But now you know what my biggest struggle is? How can I make people understand what I'm doing when actually you need to feel it? So I can pitch it and I can send you videos and presentations and do everything but...

Dave Nitzel (40:14.854)
Mm-hmm.

Aoife (40:15.354)
you

Katalin Bene (40:22.976)
It's very very hard even to explain it because you must feel it and you must experience it in order to see actually but it's really changing everything. You can have the best concept in a bar and if you're missing some of the elements it's incomplete.

Dave Nitzel (40:30.651)
Yeah.

Cliff Crider (40:43.039)
I'll tell you one thing right now. When you said surprise, I never ever would have thought about that as an ingredient in a cocktail. Right? So I can just see a cocktail being delivered to somebody and somebody being surprised at either the glass, the presentation, the condiment, the way it's layered, the way it tastes. I mean, that's pretty

That's pretty cool. I mean, you said it right there, surprise. it wouldn't take me anything, it didn't take me a second but to go, that's pretty cool. So yeah, I'm gonna have to put that in my little, steal that if I can.

Chris Schneider (41:15.723)
you

Dave Nitzel (41:16.028)
I wrote that down too.

Katalin Bene (41:16.782)
.

Dave Nitzel (41:29.136)
And it could be anything, right? Does it have to be the cocktail? It could be a surprise by way of... Yeah, okay.

Katalin Bene (41:29.187)
Yeah, well, it can be. No, no, no, it's the whole experience. It's the whole... I like to incorporate elements in all the touch points, like from the website or the moment you step in, what the host is telling you, how do you get to your table, what are the elements guiding you, because we cannot just explain. One of our mistakes is that we create so complicated concepts that we need to...

stop in the service and explain to people what our concept is and if we are doing this we are wrong it's not working the concept the concept should be something the people automatically slowly discover they become curious from the start and they want to explore it and then you just come with these little elements and surprises and stories that actually it's gonna make sense in their head and then when they realize what your concept is and they have this aha moment

that's when you do it right because that is when the experience becomes more powerful.

Minakshi Singh (42:34.902)
Yeah, and they're like conversation starters as well, right? Like this, this, I think, I think you lead with the curiosity of your guest rather than, you know, your own information that you have. It's like a download moment, right? You don't need to, you know, the minute somebody comes in, you don't have to kickstart with my menu is this and this and this and this. And suddenly you do feel, I was at a, not naming the bar. I was at a bar where we...

Dave Nitzel (42:35.461)
awesome.

Katalin Bene (42:46.613)
Exactly.

Minakshi Singh (42:59.79)
to catch up with a friend and they gave me like, and I was just there to catch up with a friend and suddenly what happened was that the...

server came and they asked me like four different kinds of water options and immediately my friend is like god this is already very tiring like why do I have to select so like I know I spend my all day and that is when psychologically I understood these are the mistakes our industry is probably making we are over complicating like just serving water why does it have to be I have this water I have that water I have this like like this is just basic single single line question and you know and and it doesn't need

Katalin Bene (43:15.203)
Heh.

Minakshi Singh (43:37.085)
that much of information and I feel like the time the guest asks what kind of water do you have or do you have option or you know that's where I feel like we have to understand the lead into the you know lean into the guests curiosity or their needs more and I feel again be better listeners and I feel like we've stopped being really great listeners and I feel that is something psychologically that has happened to us over the few I would say 10 years or so.

Katalin Bene (43:38.976)
No.

Katalin Bene (44:04.331)
You definitely need to listen and we need to focus on them, ask them questions. But also, like the way we design menus for me, we can be better, we can do better. Like it's been, I don't know, I think four five years, I... as a judge for Tales of the Cocktail Spirit of the Wars, I have to go through all the menus they submit for the best menus and sometimes I'm like... what?

Some people submit just a book, like a paper with the ingredients and that's it. And then you think this is the world's best menu. Like what makes a menu the world's best menu? How do you sell your concept? For me already like your concept or your story or everything has to be reflected in the design of your menu. And already done in a way that is not too complicated as you say because you don't go to a bar to get a PhD.

You go to a bar to forget about the work, the stress, just have a connection with your friend and so on, so on. So this is another interesting thing. I actually took the needs of social needs of people and whenever I create things, I think of them like what are the reasons they go in a bar? Because especially now we have so many bars, the competition is so high.

Cliff Crider (45:05.117)
you

Katalin Bene (45:27.052)
Why should people choose my bar for example? Or why should they choose this bar? Or this restaurant? And the differences are not the products itself. It's never the food and the drink. You can... How many times did you guys go to a place where the food is not maybe the best but you just feel good and you always go there? I'm sure you did it as well. I did it many times. And same with the bars. I can just go on a course... And that's why actually why dive bars work.

Chris Schneider (45:28.971)
Thank

Dave Nitzel (45:48.46)
Usually. Usually.

Minakshi Singh (45:49.998)
Yeah.

Katalin Bene (45:57.226)
Because it's not pretentious that you can be yourself, that you don't need to maybe dress up so fancy, that you can just be free, you can breathe, you don't need to be uptight, and you just enjoy and have fun. And that's exactly the reason why dive bars work.

Minakshi Singh (46:12.27)
Yeah.

Dave Nitzel (46:13.04)
That's smart.

Kat, I think.

Katalin Bene (46:16.096)
But we can make it also in other higher end bars and I think a lot of people are doing great already. Like they made all...

Minakshi Singh (46:23.854)
Yeah, feel like the magic will be the balance that you're just, you you want great drinks in a very comfortable setting. And if you get the two together, you have a winner. And you can see that. I mean, I don't know, ask you Kat in the last few years that you've been around, of course, going to bars and judging and looking at cocktail menus, any memorable menus you want to share with this group and with the audience as well, like the menus that have stuck with you and like have done amazing work and why so.

Katalin Bene (46:27.892)
Yes, exactly.

Katalin Bene (46:51.244)
Bye.

Katalin Bene (46:55.084)
Well, I maybe shouldn't speak about it yet because we are just still in the... yesterday was the deadline actually so I don't know if I can talk about what I like but I like usually the kind of menus that... let's generalize I like the menus where there is a little story where there is not just about the drink itself but like you see like the people you see the the concept it's not just

Minakshi Singh (47:07.134)
Katalin Bene (47:24.661)
putting fancy ingredients together and trying to be trendy. It's about... It's like a kind of like a culture, creating a culture where you are. And you can already see that from a menu, because if the menu makes me curious and I want to keep looking and discovering, then for me that menu is good. It's a great menu. And then the secondary are the drinks. So first is always the...

how easy is to understand for guests. Like I always imagine like okay, well this is the worst best menu, okay. How do I see this as a guest? It's the same goes for the worst best spirit selection because there is one category for that. And there are some bars that they have hundreds of bottles of booze and there is no explanation. Like if I go to this bar and you have thousand bottle of whiskey let's say and I don't know too much about whiskey, how can I choose my stuff?

Like what I'm gonna order? Of course I'm gonna order something maybe that I know. Just to not... Because nobody likes to look uneducated or look stupid. So you're gonna just act and you say you know what I'll take this brand. I know it won't fail me I'm gonna take it. Or maybe you are gonna experiment with something that is in the similar style.

But if you don't have instructions or you don't have like a flavor profile or any kind of way of understanding what those brands are, like for me that's like nothing. You can have thousand bottles or maybe someone has hundred bottles but they have a menu that really tells about the origin, who makes it, the flavor profile, how guides you through with the design, like how do you choose your spirit, something that is for you because we are all different.

For me that's a great spirit menu.

Minakshi Singh (49:21.678)
Yeah.

Dave Nitzel (49:21.948)
agree.

Aoife (49:22.014)
That's when you need a whiskey wheel. You just go up to the bar with the whiskey wheel. You got 100 whiskeys and you spin the wheel. The one in the right way for the whole time. Yeah, I think. Yeah, or you go to the wheel. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's like a Relent-o.

Dave Nitzel (49:31.164)
you

Katalin Bene (49:32.939)
That's the one and you just pick one is like, okay, that's the one Yeah, that that will be $200 for the for the shop

Dave Nitzel (49:41.309)
That's the thing, Kat. I've long said that no one... personal experience. Like, I know a little bit about alcohol, right? I'm in the industry. I know a thing or two. And I think you nailed it, like, with dive bars. Dive bars allow us to feel comfortable. Minakshi gets this too. So Minakshi has sophisticated places.

Cliff Crider (49:41.36)
Ha ha ha.

Chris Schneider (49:41.931)
Thank

Dave Nitzel (50:08.73)
and it could be really easy for her place is to fall into that uncomfortable, I feel stupid, but her team and the way they go about it makes you feel infinitely comfortable. And then when you get comfortable, you're more willing to explore and try things because you don't, you're not made to feel stupid. Like no one went out and said, let's spend a lot of money on cocktails and feel really uncomfortable doing it. Be a little lost in the process. And like in that scenario,

what you are thinking, what you're processing is escape. I want to get out of this scenario. You're not, you're not going, you're not going out to have this bad adventure. And I read menus and I know a thing or two and I read menus and I'm like, I, I don't know what any of this is. And I'm brave enough that I just go deal. I call dealers choice. say, look, I can't make sense of any of this shit.

just make me something that you think I would like. And then maybe they say to me, do you like sweet? Do you like spicy? Like I get something like that and I'll say, look, I like sweet. And then I get something like horrifically sweet. Like it doesn't land. And I'm like, oh, great. Like I'm paying super premium to play experiment with you while I don't enjoy myself and made to feel uncomfortable. And so I think if, that's where you're going with your consulting business, make sure it's super known.

Katalin Bene (51:13.197)
Yep.

Dave Nitzel (51:36.093)
I will say just a couple things and then defer to the rest of the group because it's important to me for you. Being a coach is really hard as you already as you will learn as you're learning as you will never stop learning a couple quick things. One is you don't sell on LinkedIn. You'll only become known. Right. No one buys off LinkedIn. This is what Chris and I were talking about the other day. Maybe if you're super elite. No one buys. Right. Right.

Katalin Bene (51:59.819)
Yeah, I tried it too. No one even bothered. You know, like they don't care. I know this. Thank you.

Chris Schneider (52:03.147)
Not at all.

Dave Nitzel (52:05.52)
They don't. So but but you become known, which is not bad. It's a referral business. So whatever business you get, you kick maximum mass with that job and make sure you're qualified to do it because it's that person. It's it's Kostin who's going to get you your next gig. He's going to tell someone people will see opportunities and say, you know who you need to do. I'll do it now. Now that I'm more clear on what you're doing, if someone comes to me and and

Katalin Bene (52:28.233)
I'm not sure if I'm quite sure that it comes from people. And one is about the product or the extra people or any kind of exposure. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not I'm sure. I'm not sure. I'm I'm not I'm not I'm not sure. I'm not not I'm

Dave Nitzel (52:33.38)
wants to somehow connect their products and their menus to their people and into their culture. Look, am I the person for that? No, because I don't know shit about cocktails. Like, I'm not the guy for that job, right? I'm a I'm a boring leadership management coach. You're you're a dope coach that knows all this cool stuff. Call Kat. So it's it's important that what you put out there gives great clarity to people as to what you do, but more important, just like the guest experience. It's the same story.

Aoife (52:44.148)
you

Dave Nitzel (53:02.756)
you're creating a different type of customer experience that becomes your raving fans. And that's where you're, that's absolutely where the work will come from, but it's a slow build.

Katalin Bene (53:11.694)
It is a build and it's also hard because you say that we need to do this for love and not for the money and I honestly have a different opinion. I think there is a sweet spot somewhere

that you still do what you love but you know I always say like I don't want to be starving artist I don't want to be a starving artist I still want to be able to put bread on my table and cook and just I don't want to be famous and rich you asked me like rather be famous like I don't want I never wanted to be famous like that was never my goal

But still financially to be alright, it's still I think a very important thing because the moment you are struggling with finances, that stops your creativity, stops your whatever you're doing, it just pulls you back in a way you don't even realize it maybe. So you cannot do it just for love, because you will starve.

Chris Schneider (54:00.671)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (54:07.612)
That's right. I'll tell you.

Love doesn't pay the bills, that's for sure. And I'll tell you what else it does. It's bad news. As you start, you get desperate for work and you accept jobs that you shouldn't otherwise be doing. And that's why people hate coaches and consultants because out of desperation, because you can't pay with love, you say yes to jobs you're not qualified to do. You underperform, you overcharge, and you stop putting the customer first and you're putting yourself first naturally because you need to eat. And that's why it's such a damn tough business. It's a tough ass business.

Aoife (54:13.108)
I'm gonna go.

Chris Schneider (54:21.203)
Mm-mm.

Katalin Bene (54:41.576)
And I still say no to things. Yeah, I still say no, sorry to interupt, like I still say no to things, but it really, it is hard when you have a month when you were slow and you know you need to pay the bills and you need to pay the taxes and you need to be all the things. Like it's hard to say no, but it's like the same as with the other things in my personal life. Like does it help me to get somewhere? No.

Dave Nitzel (54:42.012)
which is why I'm excited to have you on.

Dave Nitzel (54:47.28)
That's okay, no.

Katalin Bene (55:09.124)
It's just hard when I think it's very important who you surround yourself with. Like that's also one of the reasons I come often to Bucharest because I think Costin is like the only person honestly who believes in what I'm doing because I change things for him and like he understands me. But I have to say like even like my like my wife's side family for example like they just see numbers you know like do I bring a lot of money? No.

Am I away? Yes. Like then the business is not working. Even though and for them maybe I'm running spirals but if you look not from top but from side those spirals are going up and I'm building something but it's just the people don't see it and that can also pull you down. So it's super important also like the people around you there is at least someone that believes in you or that understands you that you can discuss with ideas that they can challenge you.

Dave Nitzel (55:49.869)
Mm-hmm.

Katalin Bene (56:06.991)
and tell you like no Katalin you're wrong this is so stupid you don't see right you don't see clear so he will enlighten me and then I will try it in a different way and then the personal like a partner as well

Dave Nitzel (56:12.796)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (56:19.302)
Well, keep partnering well. Yeah, partner well. if you find an opportunity, more advice you don't have to follow. But when you're coaching and you find yourself with an opportunity, but you're not expert, you don't have to detach from it. You can just partner with someone who is. You'll have to split some of the proceeds, but it's better than doing a bad job. Yeah. And look, now you have a whole bunch more people. You have five more people that very much believe in you.

Chris Schneider (56:34.731)
you

Katalin Bene (56:35.131)
Yeah.

Katalin Bene (56:39.119)
Yeah, yeah, I prefer that as well.

Dave Nitzel (56:48.924)
And they're partners, right? So build your army. I tell people all the time, build your army.

Katalin Bene (56:52.688)
Yeah

Aoife (56:53.938)
And you call it collaboration not partner because collaboration is well on trend right now.

Dave Nitzel (56:58.415)
yeah.

Minakshi Singh (56:59.118)
No, I mean, feel like, I feel like...

it takes a village and you know it takes a village for everything to succeed and you find your own kind of people everywhere you go and you know you will have your type you will have people who will believe in you I feel like just keep your I think sense of self it's very tough it's very I know it's very easy to say and very tough to do and we hear it from your journey like you know against all the odds that you know what you've been able to do is it's absolutely incredible to hear but most of the time you know in these

Aoife (57:06.59)
Mmm. Exactly.

Minakshi Singh (57:33.168)
scenarios and I mean how do you keep yourself motivated? What do do? Like where do you look when you think that your chips are down and no one's understanding? My concept is going to be that people need to feel this and you know it's not a drink that I can present it's not a know pepper I can make people taste this is beyond that. How do you keep yourself like you know motivated in scenarios like that? What are you doing for that?

Katalin Bene (57:50.053)
Yeah.

Katalin Bene (57:58.242)
I just call myself a warrior princess since I am... I was a little girl, you know, I always read these storybooks where there was princes always fighting the dragons and I always wanted to be like the warrior princess, like why cannot the princess go and fight the dragons and kill them and then gain the money and the gold and whatever, you know? It's like... So I just decided that I am gonna be a warrior princess and then I think that's...

for me, like I literally wake up in the morning and I always tell myself like okay even though I slept maybe three hours actually last night I again slept three hours I was working late and I was like I'm always telling myself like okay and now I'm gonna put on my armor so I am actually like literally when I get dressed I imagine that I'm putting on my princess the warrior princess armor and then I go out and

just tackle the day. But it is hard, like it is not so easy and sometimes I speak about this because when I go to bar shows or somewhere to speak I don't speak about drinks and sustainability and I don't like to speak. I believe that people know how to make great drinks. They are smart enough to know the ingredients and the peppers and so on. It doesn't matter, you know, maybe 10 or 100 doesn't make a big difference, right?

So I like to speak about sometimes about my personal experiences and I tell them about struggles because people want to be consultants for the money and so on and I always tell them like well are you sure this is for you because there is a price I mean once you're a consultant if you're maybe more ego-oriented or maybe your words or certain things are very important for you well that's not your right job because once you're a consultant you are in the back it's like a bit like a bar manager

For me a great bar manager is someone that is like uplifting the team and it's not about them anymore it's about the whole team and the people. So... Yeah it's...

Minakshi Singh (01:00:09.772)
No, and yeah, I mean it.

Aoife (01:00:10.759)
Okay.

Minakshi Singh (01:00:11.47)
It's a constant balance that you have to play with and it is in today's time definitely coming from, I feel like, where you have come from to where you are today to where you're going. Yeah, and you are a planner. You are somebody who likes to see where they're going, right? So there's always, feel like I'm the opposite of that. I go with how things are going. I'm not somebody who is going to plan and I like to see the

like this is what I want to do but I mean I like to visualize things more so I mean I'm a very that person but at the end of it there's no list I have there's no plan I have I don't have a top 10 top 5 things but you know we all do ourselves right you do you and you know and I think that's how that's how it works so it can individually also work differently for different people

Katalin Bene (01:01:03.564)
Yeah, what works for me might not work for others and vice versa. Like, we just need to know ourselves. And know what works for us. And of course, like, I'm not saying like I'm always on the top. Like, I don't have a problem to tell people that, like, sometimes I struggle too, because when you are always surrounded with people that tell you like, this is not gonna work or this, never gonna happen. And it's really...

influencing you and when I spoke about how important are people around you like there is a saying that you are like the sum of the five people you are with so now I look at you five and I'm like okay I'm somewhere the sum of you five but

Cliff Crider (01:01:42.207)
That's not good.

Cliff Crider (01:01:47.711)
Sorry about that.

Aoife (01:01:47.848)
No, we're not sorry. We're not sorry.

Chris Schneider (01:01:47.913)
We're sorry.

Dave Nitzel (01:01:50.556)
Be careful what you wish for!

Katalin Bene (01:01:55.397)
Yeah, but it's important, you know, and I I thrive now like instead of just going I don't want to just I started going to a lot of bar shows to bar events and guest bartending and I say no to a lot of guest bartending in events because It's not I don't want to be famous. That's not my goal to be known as a I don't know People already know me as a great bartender and it's a challenge for me to make them understand and I'm not just a bartender like

Cliff Crider (01:01:55.73)
Hey, what?

Katalin Bene (01:02:25.782)
I need to do other things and I want to grow and also as an entrepreneur like I need to grow my mind and that's like something I think the last three years that's like the biggest achievement to get in my mind set where I am now and to understand things in a different way. It's very different from bartending and that's why I feel like my god like I'm at the so beginning of something but I just believe in this.

I really believe in this and one day I'm gonna maybe meet you again and tell you like okay guys this is what I did and let me tell you about it.

Cliff Crider (01:03:05.495)
Let me ask you question, and real quick, when you said just being a great bartender, mean, being a great bartender and your evolution, it's just, you're talking about the sum of five people you're with, but there are so many elements that cause you to be a great bartender. So when you're up there at a bar show or wherever, you're not just a great bartender, you're the sum of all these incredible parts that made you that great bartender that puts you in front of 100 people.

So don't forget, it's just not like, I'm a great tennis player. I mean, imagine everything that went into Jokovic or Nadal who caused them to be the great bartender. It's just phenomenal. People will have envy, and that's not what you're after, but people will have envy of your skillset and your passion and your ability to push through and be where you are. So when you're up there on a stage, and I'm not a bartender, but when you're up there, I mean, you're.

Katalin Bene (01:03:41.922)
.

Cliff Crider (01:03:59.338)
You're the shit, man. I mean, you learned it. So it's fantastic. But what I want to ask you is, is if you could go back to your 24 year old self, what would you, what would you tell yourself? Anything that you would change differently or tell somebody at 24?

Katalin Bene (01:04:08.994)
Yes, I would learn to ask for help faster Because this is something Growing up and that leaving my family and being always by myself never having safety net like I just really learned to rely on myself it was always just me against the world and I just

understood during the years that if we can find someone it's not a shame to go and ask them questions. Ask them like, well hey what would you do in my position? It doesn't mean like you're not gonna go just to anyone, you'd go to someone who did it already and you need to ask them for a help or advice. And for me for example again it's Costin who I go to and I ask him the questions and it helps me a lot.

And this is one of the things, because you always need to be having at least one person that is not like you. Someone that's challenging you. Because two people thinking... It's like Steve Jobs and the other guy. Like if you look at these great companies, it's always two people. Two people that are like doing great things in different things that together, that becomes a larger great thing, right?

Cliff Crider (01:05:34.685)
Right.

Katalin Bene (01:05:36.682)
and they challenge each other and they see a bigger picture. So for me like this, like ask for a partner or find my mentor and when we speak about mentors again like don't choose your mentors as how famous they are or how great they are at something but choose them as like how good they are as a person, how good they are with people, how do they treat people.

Cliff Crider (01:06:03.07)
Right.

Katalin Bene (01:06:03.19)
because they can be the best in something but they are not nice to their team or the people around them and so on that they're not gonna be a great mentor for you so I would choose a mentor earlier and the right mentor earlier and ask for help

Cliff Crider (01:06:22.267)
Awesome. Yeah, there's an expression. One is none, two is some. And so that's kind of helps sometimes to have another person.

Dave Nitzel (01:06:35.484)
Have you thought about, look, you're a book person, and Chris, who, by the way, recently wrote a book about menus. may want to get that on Amazon.com. Have you thought about writing a book to get your ideas down and to get your concepts out there?

Katalin Bene (01:06:46.582)
Okay.

Katalin Bene (01:06:55.521)
Honestly, I was thinking already once to write a book, not a cocktail book again, but then I am like, you know when I I find it is like so complicated and so complex like no one even would read it That's how I feel like there is like a lot of things I had to grow through to get where I am like even with you Like I just spoke a little bit about it. It's not even touching. It's just like a tip of iceberg so

Actually when I go to seminars I just put up, when I have to introduce myself I put up like a bingo card and in each bingo there is I don't know, world class competition, 50 best, moving again, restart, stand up again, that's myself and then go and so on. Like there are like things like that in the bingo and I'm just telling people literally like if you want to know more look and if we have common things we have a beer after but like I just feel like

It's... I shouldn't really write about this. I don't know, like, I don't want to write about this. Because I don't find it interesting. Maybe it's not helping people, maybe there is not enough people who are wanting even to read it. If I would ever write about something, it would be rather... Maybe what I...

keep saying that because I want to change the way we design experiences, bars, concepts, menus and so on. Like I would at one point write, but for this I need to have more achievements so that I can talk about it. I can show them like, hey, this is a client, I did this for them or this is that and this is how it worked and why it worked. But I just, I'm too at the beginning of this to write a book. Like I'm just a girl again.

the word again that is figuring it out so how can I be the expert writing a book

Chris Schneider (01:08:53.387)
Because you just do it. like, okay, so bear with me for a second. The first book I wrote, I wrote because I own dive bars in Indiana, right? I had no awards. I still don't know how to make like any cocktails. I am the crappiest bartender on the planet. Dave is probably better than me. I know very little about anything, but I know how to run a dive bar pretty well. And so I got done with that. And I said, Okay, I'm gonna forget what I'm doing.

I want to write this all down for me. It ended up being a book, I put it out. And I had all those same thoughts you're saying right now, because when I wrote that book, was 30. I published I was like 34. Right? I said, I'm young, I have no clue what I'm doing. Why should anyone trust me? But I wrote this thing. So I'm just going to release it on Amazon. Because why not? Maybe somebody will buy it and find it useful. And they did. And I think that's really easy, especially in your 30s, because I'm still

I'm actually a year younger than you or a couple months younger than you.

Dave Nitzel (01:09:57.563)
You look a lot younger than him though, Kat.

Chris Schneider (01:09:59.797)
I know, right?

Aoife (01:10:00.404)
Thank

Katalin Bene (01:10:00.836)
I'm a vampire from Transylvania. I'm literally next to the Dracula Castle. That's the reason.

Chris Schneider (01:10:06.249)
Yeah, you're not aging at all. And I look like I'm, you know, Dave's age or something. But the thing is, don't undersell your own experience. Right? Because even if you don't feel like you know a whole bunch, I promise you, especially just listening to you talk, you know a lot more than a lot of people and a lot of people would find this really, really interesting. So don't undersell yourself. Don't feel like you're too young.

Cliff Crider (01:10:10.444)
Yeah.

Chris Schneider (01:10:35.071)
just take the swing. And if you put out a book and nobody buys it, which happened to me for years, right? I put out the book, nobody bought it, started podcast and some people started to buy it. I still don't sell very many books, right? I'll be real honest. But do it for yourself. And don't care what anyone else says. Because you know, you think about like, when you were talking about putting on your armor, it's the same sort of thing. If you want to do it, just do it. And so what if you're not an expert?

Katalin Bene (01:10:51.582)
Okay.

Chris Schneider (01:11:05.033)
You probably are going to say something interesting that connects with somebody and if it helps at least a few people's lives be better, you won.

Minakshi Singh (01:11:13.634)
No, can I call it? It's called the imposter syndrome. So, you know, very... Yeah. Yeah.

Katalin Bene (01:11:18.112)
Yeah, I do have imposter syndrome. I always had it, It's also cultural for me because in my culture you cannot say good things about you because you are arrogant. You cannot praise yourself ever.

Minakshi Singh (01:11:34.989)
Yeah.

It's the same way in India as well. If I praise myself a little bit, it suddenly becomes like, know, she thinks whatever. maybe it's in my head now. And I don't even know if it's real or not. I feel like I hear you. And when you say that, I'm like, OK, this is exactly how I know so many people around me, including myself, who is constantly doubting. And I feel that's, yeah, it is imposter syndrome.

Katalin Bene (01:11:47.359)
Yeah.

Aoife (01:12:04.916)
It's impossible.

Katalin Bene (01:12:04.926)
But I think imposter syndrome is important. Like, the moment you have imposter syndrome, I think in a way it relates to success. Because the more you have it and you keep pushing to be better, at one point you're actually gonna even grow even more than you imagined because you just wanna be better. And it can be not just a negative thing, I think it's also a positive thing.

Cliff Crider (01:12:30.463)
Yeah, but Kat, you have to realize you are an expert. Okay? You are an expert. That's a fact. Okay? That's not being arrogant. That's not bragging. That's a fact. You are an expert. You've been in this business for 20 years. You've earned it. All right? Stand tall, head up, and just know that you are the shit. And yeah, be humble. That's fine. Don't be arrogant, but you're an expert.

Aoife (01:12:31.028)
I think you can see it.

Katalin Bene (01:12:39.838)
Mm-hmm.

Katalin Bene (01:12:58.875)
Okay.

Cliff Crider (01:12:59.673)
So just live it, man.

Dave Nitzel (01:13:02.266)
be the Princess Slay the Dragon Cat. Go go get it.

Katalin Bene (01:13:03.934)
you

Cliff Crider (01:13:03.943)
Yeah, be the dragon! Fuck the princess, be the dragon!

Minakshi Singh (01:13:06.094)
Yeah, isn't she? Zena? I'll out here talking about Zena, Zena the princess.

Chris Schneider (01:13:07.566)
You

Aoife (01:13:14.312)
I think I that's a word with imposter syndrome Kat.

Dave Nitzel (01:13:14.405)
It's true.

Aoife (01:13:18.734)
I have imposter syndrome as well too. Manakshi, did you just say that you suffer from it as well? It tends to raise its head more in females than it in males as well. That's one of the keys about it. It doesn't help working in an industry that we've chosen an industry that's very male dominated as well. But I think with imposter syndrome, it drives you further and makes you want to sort of prove yourself a bit more.

Minakshi Singh (01:13:23.564)
Yeah, sent.

Katalin Bene (01:13:47.324)
So.

Aoife (01:13:48.596)
You know, so, you know, I've been sitting in boardrooms and I'm the only female in the room, you know, and I've years of experience and inside my head I'm going, why are they listening to me? Why are they listening to me? you know, I earned the seat at the table, you know, and if you're in the seat at the table, then, you know, you get your warrior princess on and then you just...

Katalin Bene (01:13:59.678)
I'll do my own table not good not gonna hurt I Always say you know how many clothes they closed in front they closed the doors in front of me And I always tell them like how can always I'm gonna go in through the roof Not the window through the roof and I still go

Dave Nitzel (01:14:15.418)
Yeah.

Chris Schneider (01:14:15.754)
Thank

Minakshi Singh (01:14:18.747)
Get up.

Aoife (01:14:19.091)
Yeah.

Aoife (01:14:26.002)
Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, I really relate to your warrior princess thing because I am a warrior princess. I have the warrior because Aoife was a warrior princess in Irish mythology and from a very, very earlier age, I, you know, it was a metamorphic, you you put it in your head and you're like, yeah, no, I will become.

Katalin Bene (01:14:42.503)
Okay.

Aoife (01:14:51.816)
the warrior princess so I've always had the warrior princess thing. I try to teach my little girls that as well too. You need to be the warrior princess. Go and kick ass.

Cliff Crider (01:15:01.297)
I think we found the title for the podcast. So, yeah.

Minakshi Singh (01:15:01.486)
Yeah.

Aoife (01:15:05.46)
Or the type of thing you're born with, Pat. The type of thing you're born with.

Dave Nitzel (01:15:06.044)
Transylvania, Dragon Slayer.

Chris Schneider (01:15:06.249)
We did.

Katalin Bene (01:15:07.129)
Hey, do you want to know who I am in but I'm not a boy warrior princess I'm a raccoon

Cliff Crider (01:15:07.965)
What was your friend's name?

Cliff Crider (01:15:13.661)
Yes.

Chris Schneider (01:15:13.824)
Sure.

Aoife (01:15:14.152)
Yeah.

Dave Nitzel (01:15:16.412)
Ha ha ha!

Cliff Crider (01:15:17.533)
I like that.

Katalin Bene (01:15:18.939)
I'm small, I'm chubby, I sometimes eat junk, I'm cute but can't f*** shit up. I have ADHD so I'm always like, rubbing my hands and always doing something so yeah, I'm a raccoon.

Cliff Crider (01:15:24.446)
Yeah.

Chris Schneider (01:15:24.459)
You

Minakshi Singh (01:15:24.686)
you

Cliff Crider (01:15:32.927)
Very clever.

Aoife (01:15:32.948)
Oh, there you go. This is quite old of your book. Nikund Warrior Princess in one move.

Minakshi Singh (01:15:39.926)
This is more like our chat digressing from topic and going be wired. This is more like our chat completely digressing.

Cliff Crider (01:15:40.063)
You

Katalin Bene (01:15:40.284)
Yes.

Chris Schneider (01:15:40.971)
that could be a really good book title.

Aoife (01:15:43.346)
Yeah.

Aoife (01:15:47.24)
Yeah. steps to warrior proof.

Dave Nitzel (01:15:47.933)
Yeah, yeah, completely. Well, we're talking about look, I think I think to here's a closing remark for me on the I think so for a book, Minakshi she said something to me a couple of episodes ago that's bothered me, which was she asked me about the book and she said, hey, he's writing a book, a vanity project. Isn't it just a big vanity project? I was like, oh, shit, is it like I had never been asked that before? And it started as like, did I? You know, like, why do I write books?

Katalin Bene (01:15:57.277)
Thank

Okay. .

Aoife (01:16:02.203)
you

Dave Nitzel (01:16:17.404)
And truly, truthfully, write to help people. Like that's what I aspire to do. Chris tells the truth. We've been fortunate in some book sales and other book sales not. But you have the ability to change lives with what you know. mean, think about if you had gotten your hand on a book written by the future you when you were bartending at 18, how that may have

change your life, how it may inspire people. in the same way that you say, hey, when we give great experiences to others in a bar and restaurant, it's not about us being on stage. It's about surprising and delighting other people and giving them these experience. Writing a book's the same. It's not about you. It's about taking what you know and helping other people that may in some small way relate to your journey. Like Cliff refuses to read my books. It's heartbreaking.

Katalin Bene (01:16:59.612)
Okay. Let's say.

Dave Nitzel (01:17:17.116)
But I feel like sometimes Cliff will read one page and you just get one thing out of that book that you carry with you for a lifetime and you go, you know what? It was worth it. I happen to believe, by the way, I'm very proud of you. I love watching your growth. I think you have a tremendously unique story and I think there's other people out there that would benefit from it. I'm not trying to force you to write a book. What I reject is the idea that you don't deserve to, you don't know enough to like...

Katalin Bene (01:17:28.988)
. .

Chris Schneider (01:17:43.98)
Mm-hmm.

Dave Nitzel (01:17:45.713)
If that's the reason why no, then that's bullshit. If you just don't want to do it, fine, like no problem. Don't do what you don't want to do. But it's a great way. I think you have a unique perspective. think you're cutting edge on some stuff. I think you can help people and that's enough. That's more than enough reason to write a bad book that someone might accidentally buy and learn something from. Go do it and see what happens.

Katalin Bene (01:17:57.404)
The raccoon From Racoon to Warrior Princess

Aoife (01:18:11.186)
Yeah, there you go.

Dave Nitzel (01:18:11.652)
Yeah, there you go. Like you can do it. and that's those are my closing remarks. I'll leave it. I'll leave it to my partners to do their bit.

Aoife (01:18:18.036)
It could also be quite cathartic as well too, for yourself. And like, you know, as you said earlier, you know, it's like here and then it's here and then you don't know. you know, so like actually writing the book and getting it out could actually be quite cathartic in the process.

Chris Schneider (01:18:39.051)
So we are coming short on time. And Dave said he gave us his closing remark. Does anyone else have closing remarks they want to throw out there before we let everyone go for the day?

Aoife (01:18:51.06)
It was really nice to meet you Kat and hear your story. Definitely, definitely be looking you up and recommending you to clients and stuff.

Katalin Bene (01:19:01.964)
Thank you so much it was nice to meet you too it's like I I really like hanging out with you maybe maybe one day I can just be the sixth Just to hang out with you and just to see more

Cliff Crider (01:19:12.799)
I'm

You can hang out with us anytime, that's for sure. We're all available. We don't really... Yeah.

Minakshi Singh (01:19:19.15)
Yeah, we'll send you the link. Yeah, we'll just send you the link. Just join in.

Aoife (01:19:24.628)
Yeah, we want to try and do Party of Six at the next India Bar Show, Live in Persian.

Dave Nitzel (01:19:34.321)
Ha

Minakshi Singh (01:19:35.031)
You I must, I must just add to, know, you're an amazing human being. I think I always knew that because I read about you when Dave wrote about you, you know, and that's when I first heard about you and, we connected on Instagram and stuff. And I'm so happy that we could get to do this. like in, I mean, you, you, you're an inspiration for everyone around the world. And I feel like you should tell your story. Absolutely. Do not, yeah. Vanity or no vanity, please just go with.

Katalin Bene (01:19:43.045)
Thanks.

Minakshi Singh (01:20:04.974)
You have so much to share with the world.

It's absolutely insane that you've done what you've done and you've picked up yourself and restarted this whole thing, traveled the world. I mean, you have done what a lot of people can only imagine to do. So I feel like you have to tell your story, absolutely. And I'm so glad we have a little part to play and we hopefully, seven more people will hear us and then, yeah, even more people will know your story. Don't think about this as a business thing, right? You're not getting more business out of this.

Katalin Bene (01:20:23.835)
No, I'm not I'm not actually I'm not I I honestly like I Really only came because of Dave because I know know him and he asked me and then I later found out like who everyone else is and I'm like cool like I'm just

Dave Nitzel (01:20:30.78)
Yeah

Chris Schneider (01:20:38.943)
Hahahaha

Dave Nitzel (01:20:39.904)
Hahaha!

Katalin Bene (01:20:52.791)
happy to be here. It's nice and also it's nice to see your opinions. Maybe at this point, maybe it's exactly what I needed.

Minakshi Singh (01:20:54.392)
Yes.

Cliff Crider (01:21:03.922)
I'm

Minakshi Singh (01:21:05.102)
No absolutely and at the mirror bar show I carry should I carry Alphanso's for you or should I carry peppers for you? It doesn't matter what he's doing. Amazing so I'll see you in two weeks with some peppers I'll give you some real special peppers.

Katalin Bene (01:21:11.547)
Peppers. Peppers, please bring me some peppers.

Cliff Crider (01:21:12.253)
Hahaha!

Katalin Bene (01:21:19.131)
yeah see you in two weeks looking forward to to meet you in person as well i told you already if you see a chubby raccoon that's gonna be me that's my problem with the standing up tall like i'm not tall i'm 160 so like it's very short one meter 60 um so i cannot stand up tall i'm short

Minakshi Singh (01:21:24.382)
Absolutely fantastic. Yeah.

Minakshi Singh (01:21:37.527)
No worries.

Cliff Crider (01:21:40.479)
I think you stand tall enough. yeah, I'm very happy with you. Exactly. I can't do that. So be proud of where you've come from and where you are right now and we'll be following you for sure.

Katalin Bene (01:21:44.442)
The hair odds, you know? That's why I say it.

Dave Nitzel (01:21:49.275)
Ha ha ha!

Aoife (01:21:50.054)
you

Aoife (01:21:53.78)
I'm

Katalin Bene (01:22:01.433)
Thank you.

Chris Schneider (01:22:02.983)
And Kat, thanks for being here again. And this has been a fantastic conversation. I hope everybody that's listening enjoyed the conversation. Make sure if you like this, you like subscribe, leave a review, go share this with other people. We are trying to just get some good vibes out into the industry. So go share this. Give it to your friends like subscribe, leave a review please, so that we can get out there a little bit more. But thank you all for listening or watching this month's party of six.

And we will see you again next month.

Dave Nitzel (01:22:35.495)
Thank you.