What Your Binge Eating Is Really Telling You with Jane Pilger

When a warning light appears on your car's dashboard, you know something needs attention under the hood. Binge eating works exactly the same way. It's not a sign you're broken or lack willpower, it's your body saying, "Hey, something deeper needs your attention."

The trouble is, most people try to "fix" binge eating by focusing on the food itself. They restrict harder, set more rules, and grit their teeth through cravings. But that approach is like slapping duct tape over your dashboard light and pretending the problem’s solved.

In this episode, binge eating coach Jane Pilger returns to help you get under the hood and understand what's really driving your binges. She explains the top reasons binging occurs, how to recognize when your nervous system is dysregulated, signs you're not eating enough, and the safety paradox that keeps you stuck in fear around certain foods. Jane also shares practical tools to regulate your energy, reconnect with your body, and build lasting peace with food.

References

Sign up for Jane’s workshop: The Tell-Tale Signs a Binge is Coming (and How to Break the Cycle) 

Binge Breakthrough Mini Series

The Binge Eating Breakthrough Podcast

Jane’s Book: The Binge Eating Breakthrough 

Ep. 75: Why You Binge and How to Stop with Jane Pilger

Audio Stamps

01:00 - Jane introduces her "under the hood" approach to understanding binge eating and why it's a signal rather than something to shame.

04:17 - The inspiration behind writing The Binge Eating Breakthrough book and companion workbook, and why practical implementation matters.

06:20 - The top reasons binging occurs: shame and judgment as the #1 barrier, restriction, nervous system dysregulation, and internal dialogue.

12:30 - How to recognize if your nervous system is dysregulated through energy levels in your body and emotional signals.

16:56 - Jane shares three powerful questions to help you tune into your body and understand what you actually need in the moment.

19:13 - Practical tools for regulating your nervous system and releasing energy in healthy ways.

35:10 - Jane shares three powerful questions to help you tune into your body and understand what you actually need in the moment.

All of the information on this podcast is for general informational purposes only. Please talk to your physician and medical team about what is right for you. No medical advice is being on this podcast.

If you live in Indiana or Illinois and want to work with doctor Matthea Rentea, you can find out more on www.RenteaClinic.com

✨ Season 2 of Behind the Curtain is officially live! ✨ You can join the season on its own or take it a step further by opting into the live 21-Day Challenge with Dr. Rentea, running December 1–21—the perfect way to finish the year strong and head into the holidays with momentum.👉 JOIN HERE — spots are limited for the live challenge!

Transcript

0:30

Welcome back to another episode of the podcast. Today we have back Jane Pilger. She is really one of my go-to authorities for understanding what is actually happening with binge eating disorder from I think Jane, you really describe it like what's actually happening under the hood. We're gonna make sure in the show notes to link to your previous episode that was so beloved by my whole audience, but can you start with just telling us who you are and how you help people? Just in case new people have found us and have not had a chance to hear that episode yet? Yeah, absolutely. So thank you so much for having me back. I love any opportunity to really help people understand binge eating, understand why they do it, and how to stop, because that's really the question, right? Is like, why do I do this? Why do I feel so out of control with food and how do I stop? And I really look at this from the lens of we've gotta get under the hood. So to me, a binge or an out of control moment with food sometime where it just feels like, ugh, I can't control myself, I can't stop. It really is a light on the dashboard. And so what that means is it tells us there's something going on. Under the hood. So what we need to do, so many people end up like, okay, well I just need to change what I'm eating. If the way that I'm showing up with food is the problem, then looking at the food and focusing on the food is going to fix it. But what I say is. The binge itself, that out of control moment with food. When you show up with food in ways that you don't like, it's the light on the dashboard. And just like your car, if a light comes on your dashboard in your car, you know, ah, I gotta fix something. Something's going on. I gotta get under the hood. I gotta see what's going on so that I can. Turn that light off. Yeah. And that's really kind of what my approach is, is let's get under the hood and see what is causing these lights to come on in the first place. Because if we're just looking at the food, really, it's kind of like putting duct tape over the dashboard and pretending that everything's gonna be okay. And we all know what happens if you ignore the light on the dashboard of your car. If it comes on and you ignore it, and you just keep going and going like you are. Eventually your car's not going to run very well, or it might even break down on the side of the road. And that's a lot of what happens with ourselves and what we're kind of doing with our bodies. Our body is telling us something that you are doing is not working for me. Whether it is. And there could be so many different things, but it really is a light. So if we can get under the hood, see what's going on, it gives us, there's so much wisdom, under the hood. And that's really the work that I love doing is, let's make sense. Let's figure out how does this make sense? And then as we get under the hood, we will absolutely have our roadmap of where we need to go to prevent those lights from coming on in the first place. Yeah, and I really, I like how you're describing that where it's just a signal. It's not that you suddenly need to shut down, that you need to be in shame, that anything has gone wrong necessarily. I know for me. A big signal that I'm overworking is then I overeat and it's like, all right, it's, it's a hundred percent what you're saying. It's not about the food. It's not get the food outta the house. It's what are you doing? What have you suddenly started to agree to? What boundaries are you violating? Right? Yes. There's a million things and it's so helpful for me, I wanted to bring up, you really wrote an amazing book here, and it's the Binge Eating Breakthrough, and that's also the name of your podcast. Yes. And you also have a companion workbook, which I love because I find in this area it's really hard for people to practically implement this. So can you talk us through what was the inspiration behind writing this book? Yeah, absolutely. When I went through my own struggle with binge eating disorder, it was over 25 years, I was just trying to figure out how do I stop binge eating? And I told myself, if I ever figure this out, I want to help other people do the same because I knew. The challenge. I knew the shame. I knew the struggle. There was so much secrecy and so much shame that I thought, okay, I really would love to be able to help other people do the same. Well, I started my podcast. My podcast is great. It's a great way to be able to,, talk to other people, get the message out to other people. But on my own journey, I read a lot. Books and there were some books that were really helpful and there were some books that, not so much, but I thought, man, if I could also create a book and write a book that really helps other people in the same way that I was helped through my own process. I would love to do that. And so I wrote the book. And then within the book itself,, every chapter has. Questions, but I am a lifelong learner. I will always be a lifelong learner and I also love a good workbook to be able to sit down and have space in a book to write out answers to really reflect and get curious. And I thought, you know, once I wrote the book, I would love to actually, I can't remember if I thought that I would eventually create the workbook or if people started asking me first, I don't remember which came first, but it seemed like I know I got requests and it felt like a really natural next step. Lemme go ahead and create a workbook so that you could have the book and the workbook right next to it and really go through and just dive in even deeper. I love it. Yeah. I find this work. It's not, you can't just passively read stuff. You have to, in some capacity be examining things, otherwise there's really no point. With having worked with people for a long time now, what do you find are some of the common reasons that, that binging might occur? I know there are many, but just like maybe some of the top few that you see. Yeah, absolutely. So I talk about, on the podcast and in the book I talk about, the primary eight reasons that I really see. I'll just highlight just a few of them. The number one reason. Is shame and judgment. It's the shame and judgment that. We put on ourselves around the behavior. So we talked before about that light on the dashboard, shame and judgment. It's the 50 pound weight that goes on the hood. We can't even get under the hood to see what's actually going on if we are in shame and judgment. And that sounds like. What's wrong with me? I'm broken. I'll never figure this out. I know what to do, but I'm just not doing it. All of those things that we have all heard in our own heads over and over again, and it really is the number one thing that keeps us in the cycle. The answer there. Is to shift into curiosity, and this sounds very easy. Just, put shame and judgment on the shelf. It's not easy because what fires together, wires together, and it is very likely that when you have a pattern that goes into a binge or goes into a moment of food that you don't like, you have also wired those shame based and judgment based thoughts and feelings. And so it becomes part of. Pattern. But if we can know, I literally cannot overcome this. I cannot get to the bottom of it. I can't get under the hood if I'm in shame and judgment. Even just with a visual of that weight on the hood of your car. If you are willing to just even for a little bit, can I just temporarily put the shame and judgment on the shelf and shift into curiosity the number one question, my very favorite question is, how does this make sense? And if you remember nothing of this entire episode other than this one question, it literally will change your life. So when you have a moment with food, notice I didn't say if, when you have a moment with food, the question to ask is, how does this make sense? How does it make sense that I just ate way more than I wanted to? Then we can look at some of the other reasons, like you said, maybe I'm overworking. Maybe this is my signal. I'm overworking or maybe I'm really worried about something. Maybe I'm really tired. To go then now to the other kind of. Key areas that I see, lead to binge eating. Number one is restriction. Either, not eating enough food the way that we think about foods. Really looking at foods as black and white. This is good food. This is bad food. I'm not supposed to eat this. This food is safe, this food isn't safe. Really almost looking at foods in this very dichotomous black and white. Way where we're really trying to limit ourselves from this place of, like fear, like these foods are bad and they will do bad things. To me, that is a huge, huge area. And really then that also relates to another really key area, which is the nervous system. And so your nervous system is just constantly scanning for danger. Am I safe? Mm-hmm. Always asking. It's the number one question. Your nervous system is always asking 24 hours a day. Am I safe? Am I safe? Am I safe? Well, guess what? So many of us don't feel safe around a lot of foods, and so if the nervous system is constantly asking, am I safe? And it's like, Ooh, no, I am not safe around that food. I'm not safe around that food. I'm not safe at a buffet. I'm not safe if I go out to eat. I'm not safe at a party where I don't know what food is gonna be served. I'm not safe. Even if I go to somebody else's house and I don't know what's in their food, whatever it is. The impact on the nervous system is immense, and that's just thinking about food. Not to mention the impact of life on our nervous system and all of the other stressors that are coming at us really at any day. So the nervous system is a huge component of binge eating. And there's also then a lot of the internal, like the way that we talk to ourselves. About ourselves, the internal dialogue with the part. For example. I love to do a lot of kind of internal family systems based work, where we explore parts of ourselves, we all have a part of us. Anybody who struggles with binge eating or eating a lot of food when certain things happen. There is a part of you. It's really a protective mechanism. Instead of seeing it as this bad, awful, terrible thing that you do, there is a part of you that really thinks this is a good idea, this trying to protect you in some way. And if we can start to see that part as a protector instead of. This awful thing that I hate, that I wish was not a part of me, that I really want to go away. Now we can start to work with ourselves instead of that kind of internal fighting with ourselves. And that's one area that I think a lot of people, they don't realize the impact of. When we have these different aspects of ourselves that show up in ways we really. Don't like we would prefer. They don't. We think it's because that part is bad and wrong and we are bad and wrong. We're back to that shame and judgment and the 50 pound weight. But the reality is it's all self-protective. And if we can see it as protective and we can get to know how to respond to it, what to say to it, instead of hating it and trying to shove it in the closet, we really can. Can create such a different relationship with ourselves and with that part that really thinks at sometimes binging is the answer. Yeah. Yeah. You brought up so many great things and I have so many follow up questions for you. Oh, let's do it. Okay. I'm gonna just start with the nervous system part. I love how you said this, it's always scanning. Am I okay? And one thing I wanna know is how does someone know if their nervous system is dysregulated? What would be some signs that everything's not quite maybe how it would feel best for them? Yeah, such a good question. I'm actually doing a workshop that is coming up. I think maybe the day that this is gonna come out. This workshop is coming out, it's called The Tell Tale Signs, A binge is coming and how to break the cycle. So if you are listening, if you happen to be listening to this. Live within the couple of weeks that this comes out, you'll be able to catch the replay and if not, if you missed it, you're listening to this after the end of October, 2025. Not a problem. We'll still talk about some signs now. So signs that your nervous system is dysregulated. I really like to think about. The amount of energy that is in your body. For example, if my nervous system, if I'm in a grounded, connected place in my nervous system, I've got energy in my body, but it feels like it's able to move around, but it feels a little more solid and a little more steady. So I may be able to. Have a conversation. You and I able to have this conversation. We're in a grounded, connected state. I can learn, I'm able to think about things. I'm able to make sense of things. The, there's energy for sure, but it feels like it's just a little flowing around. If I am really in a, an activated state of my nervous system, I'm gonna feel like there's a lot of energy. So some people might call this the sympathetic state of your nervous system. I call the, the place in your nervous system where you're grounded and connected. I like to call it home base. Your home, your at home, home in your body. If we have a lot of energy in our body, this is what I call above home base. Other people call, fight or flight. Call it the sympathetic nervous system. This is where there's a lot going on. There's a lot of tension. So you feel you can. Feel the energy. You might have tightness in your chest. I know,, for me, I used to feel like when I wanted to binge, I just felt like I was crawling outta my skin. Just like, ooh, this, just buzzy, in my skin. Some people experience anger, irritation, frustration. We don't have dogs anymore, but when I would yell at my dog. I knew I was absolutely in that above home base place because I would rarely yell at my dog. But when I found myself just blah, letting it out, like, whoa, okay, something is going on with my nervous system. Now we can also have times where we have not very much energy in our body. So this is more of that collapsed, dorsal state in our nervous system. We're on the couch, we're scrolling Netflix, we can't get out of bed. We have so many things to do on our to-do list, but we can't, we just can't even imagine doing it. We might try to turn on a podcast and nothing is even registering. Sometimes when we're in that low, we won't even turn on a podcast. We just, the book sits on the shelf. For me, I like to think about with the nervous system and the different states. What is the energy in my body that will really tell you what state you are in? And then if I've got a lot of energy. What my need to do now is anything to release the energy to bring it down, which is what we're trying to do with food. When we are in that super activated, like high, high, high energy. One point in time we learned if I eat food, it's going to bring my energy down. The problem is it brings it all the way down until I'm below and now I'm on the couch and I'm scrolling and that type of thing I discovered for myself. I was always on the go, constantly would never stop. And then the only time I would actually stop is after a binge, and I would be on the couch and I would be scrolling for hours, and then it was like, oh, when I asked the question, how does it make sense? Ah, I'm not allowing myself to stop or to rest, and so my body's like, fine, you're not gonna rest. We can't be in this heightened energetic state all the time. We literally, our nervous systems are not capable of being that way all the time. Yeah. So I'm gonna force it with a binge. I mean, brilliant what you're saying because I see this with people, And I see it with myself where food is very easy to numb. It's easy to go to, it's easy to change your state real quick. There are physiologic realities to it as well, it's so many things. What tools have you found where, when people, you were talking about releasing the energy and I feel like all day long I'm working with people on this, and so I'm wondering, have you found a few where people actually connect great with these modalities? Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things that I love in terms of really just connecting with yourself before we even get into the tools is asking the question. We have to tune in to see where am I, what's even happening in my body, what's happening in my nervous system right now? And so I have what's called the three powerful questions, which I love. Question number one, what do I notice? So this is where I tune in. What do I notice in my body? This could be, I notice. I'm crawling outta my skin. I notice I'm yelling at the dog. I notice, I'm just like swirling. If you've seen, inside out the latest one, where anxiety comes in and is just like running around I very much relate to that sometimes. What do I notice is that question or what do I notice? I am on my fifth episode of Netflix and I have all of these other things to do. Whatever it is. What do I notice? The second question is, what do I need? Now, the first time you ask this question, you are probably gonna get crickets because most of us aren't used to asking the question, what do I need? But I promise you, your brain will go to work to answer any question that you ask it, and if you start asking what you need. You will start to get answers. So it might be, I just need a break. I need to get up. I need to create some space for myself. I need to get off the couch. I need to, whatever it is. And then the third question is, what's next? Mm-hmm. And if I'm looking at this from the energetic standpoint, what do I notice? I notice I have a lot of energy in my body. I notice I don't have any energy. What do I need? I need to drain my energy. I need to increase my energy. It literally is that simple. Then what's next is the third question, okay, what can I do to drain the energy? Or what can I do to increase the energy? So really the answer is either gonna be I need to drain my energy. I need to maintain the energy I have. If I'm in home base and I'm in this nice connected space, or I need to increase the energy if I'm below. So those really are the three. So then now I can say, okay, what tools can I use if I know I wanna drain the energy or if I wanna increase the energy, or if I wanna maintain it? So draining the energy movement is just the best. It really is. Whether that means. Get going outside and walking around the block, just giving yourself some sort of space. Music is a beautiful way to drain or increase energy. You could have a playlist. Most people have a place where their nervous system likes to go. This isn't bad, it's not a problem. But most people, for example, even in fight or flight, most people either go more towards, fight more of that anger, frustration, irritation, or they go more towards flight, which is like worry, anxiety, overwhelm. Yeah. And so tune in, like if you're listening right now where, when I go to that high energy place, which one do I go more towards? Now we all go everywhere, but we all have a flavor that is much more familiar to us. Once you've identified that, do I go more towards fight or do I go more towards flight? Then in that moment, what could I imagine myself doing that would drain some sort of energy? We don't have to drain at all. This doesn't have to be perfect. If you're a person who never goes outsides and walks. Then that's not the tool for you. If you are like me, who I actually really enjoy walking, I enjoy getting out in the sunshine. It's a great tool for me. But if you are a person who's like, Nope, not walking, then maybe music, maybe, Here's a great one. This is one, if you are a person who goes towards anger, a great thing that you can do to release some energy is get a pool noodle. Where, I don't know if you can find pool noodles anymore now that we're getting into the colder season, but a pool noodle, some sort of foam, something that you can hit onto your bed. So great way to release some energy. Actually, I have a client who she was recently telling me, she's like, yeah, I heard you talking about the pool noodle. I had a baseball bat. And she said, I used a baseball bat on my bed. And she said, I have never felt so. Good. She's like, I could feel the release of the anger. And I was like, man, power to you. Having a baseball bat and on the bed, it's not gonna hurt anything. Yeah. It was so great and she was just like, wow. To be able to really fully experience that, just release of the emotion. She was just floored. But she remembered, okay, I have this anger, I have this energy. I need to get it out. And food is the way that I've done it in the past. So what we're doing is we're really just trying to figure out what are other things I can do to drain my energy? Music and movement really are amazing ones. Or if you have a trusted person that you can just like vent venting is. Powerful. What we are not meant to do is keep all of the stuff that's here inside. We're not meant to keep it inside, and we're certainly not meant to just shove it down with food because it doesn't go, that doesn't make it go away now, it's just still there. Pushed down under a lot of food, likely under more shame and judgment. Yeah. And then we have the analogy when we try to push down whatever's happening with us with food, it's, the analogy I like to use is just a beach ball underwater. Yeah. So we're pushing that beach ball underwater, and we all know what happens. The more you push a ball underwater, it's gonna come out eventually, and the higher it's going to come out. Yeah, as you're saying these things, I'm thinking about my son. We had some OT in the past few years just to help with some different regulation things and what was so fascinating about it when he was learning these things, I was thinking low key. I'm learning these things. Yes, we have little kid analogies with things, but I don't know if we talked about this last time, when we were talking. They had done a little chart with him and they had said, well, what happened? How does your heart feel? And then what would the race car feel? And it was so cute how they did it, and I actually showed it to my group. I think it was like the January group, where I was like, look what they did, and we need to do this because it's what you're talking about that. I think little kids sometimes are getting taught these things, Hey, there's a different way you could try this, you could try that. And then as we get older, like you said, we've wired our neurons together in such a capacity where we think it's always the same answer and we don't remember that there's choice B, CDEF. And part of what you're saying is we're gonna have to play around with how to regulate you and what it's gonna look like. And sometimes it's a little bit unexpected., We're coming off of the Taylor Swift movie, having just come out with her new album. Yes. Uh huh. Exactly. And nobody judge here. I'm not like the biggest Taylor Swift fan. I love her music, but I'm not like, going to all her concerts and stuff. But I was like, you know what? It's a nice thing. Me and my husband are gonna go to it. I felt amazing afterward, and it was what you were saying, which is I had come off of a conference, I had been tired all the, it was, the energy was through the roof in a bad way. And then it was just this beautiful chance to just sit there and hear music and hear perspective. And I was totally different an hour and a half later, and it was exactly what you were saying, which is. It was a tool and I was thinking to myself, I need to do this stuff more. Yes, yes. Because it was effective. That shift that you felt, that shift from that high energy, that kind of ugh, where you feel that tightness in your body to ugh, where you felt amazing afterwards. This is what we wanna pay attention to because for each individual it's going to be different. Whatever creates the shift for you is going to be different, which is why there's no one size. Fits all approach to this, but as you are listening, get really curious about the shifts in your own state, whether you're shifting into more of a survival based state, whether it's worry, anxiety, overwhelm, anger irritation, or whether it's hopelessness, depression, and those shut down type of places. Really notice what is happening in those moments before. You create your own experience. Yeah. No matter what happens out there, we are always creating our own experience. So the question becomes, if we're in a place where we're totally, tight and we're overwhelmed, or we're anxious, or we're irritated or whatever it is, or we're binging, what did I do to create this experience? Maybe I let myself overwork. Maybe somebody did say something to me. Then I got really upset about it. What am I doing to create the shift? Because if we can take responsibility for it, that self responsibility is so important. And what I want you to combine self responsibility with is self respect. So, yes, I am responsible for everything that happens in my life, and I also wanna combine that with self-respect. So how can I respect myself, my body, my needs, while also saying, okay, what did I do to create. This experience, whether I'm now in pure worry, overwhelm, anxiety, what did I do? Oh, well, I just spent the last 30 minutes scrolling. Social. Yeah, that could do it. I just spent the last 90 minutes watching the news. Yeah, that could do it. I just spent the last 60 minutes just going over in my head like a ruminating, thinking about all the terrible, awful things that could happen to me. Yeah. That could do it. Yeah. Right. And then when we have these moments where it's like, oh. I feel so good. This is so amazing. What did I do to create that? Oh, I created space. I went to this concert. I just sat down with my partner without my phone for a while. I just went for a walk without any, outside. Noise. Yeah. What did I do to create this experience? Yeah. I find the second part of what you're talking about where when things are working, actually taking inventory of that, no one does that step.'cause all the patients, that they're seeing me monthly and. A month will go great. And I say, okay, so tell me some of these reasons why it's been happening. Great. Because they think it happened on accident. It just, yes, all the things just lined up. And I'm like, no, you've been doing stuff for two years with me, and suddenly things are falling into place. But you set these things up over time. Now it feels natural, but you are the one that did the work, Yes. I love that you bring this up. And why is this powerful, this self-responsibility being self-respect? I mean, yes. Wow. We almost just need a moment to digest that. Yeah. Powerful. It's so easy to blame other people and to blame outside circumstances and to blame whatever else is happening in our world it's very easy to do. Yeah. But if we do that and we're constantly pointing outward and we're looking outward, we are kind of stuck. And so when it's why we feel stuck, and it's why we feel powerless, because we're giving everybody else the power, we're giving the food, the power, or whoever else in our life is making us upset. But if we bring it back to I am not powerless, I am responsible. No matter what's happening in the world, no matter what's happening anywhere, I am responsible for my own life. I'm responsible for my choices. I'm responsible for how I respond. Even in those times when I respond in ways that. I don't really love, I am responsible, and if I do it through this lens of how can I do this with self-respect, my answers and my responses are gonna be so different than if I do it from a place of I'm powerless, I'm hopeless, I'm broken. Yeah. I was talking to, a good friend of mine on the podcast, Amanda, er, and we were talking about, we went to six conferences last year together. And we were talking about how some of them maybe were not necessarily amazing, but that we still got amazing things out of it.'cause we were like, where's the lesson here for me? What's going on? And it just really, you stop being such an angry person. And then to your point, I think for me at least how it plays out, then I don't need to turn to food. Yes. One thing. Leads itself to another. So these tools are very powerful because, it's not shaming when we're saying that. It really is. Just this time when you say life will always be crazy, things will always be happening. And yet I still need to continue to go in the direction that I wanna go. I wanna feel happy, or calm or whatever desire it is that you have, you actually can go toward that. And I think it's really empowering what you're saying. Absolutely, and your energy in your body will always change. You will have times where you feel grounded, you feel calm, you feel connected. You will have times where you feel worried or anxious or mad or frustrated. You will have times where you feel lethargic or you feel a little let down, or you feel a little hopeless. You a hundred percent will have all of that. So then. The key is to recognize it, to be able to see where you are, to notice it, to name it, and then know for you what are the things that help me adjust. If I need to adjust my energy in any way, what are the things that help me do it? Yeah, because I find, at least for me, that life follows a pattern. It's almost like it's cyclical where the same things keep re happening, but I can quicker notice'em, and yes, I know what to do. And to your point, exactly what you're saying, I especially like if you're in business and things like that, I think it's normal to have times of stress or if you're raising kids, it would be very abnormal if we were always trying to have a. State of calm and nothing's happening. I don't know what you're doing, but that's not most of us, so, right. So to your point, just knowing what to do in those times, that's really powerful. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I wanna come back to when you were talking about sometimes when people are not eating enough food and how would someone know that that's happening again? It's funny, I talk about this a lot'cause people are always like less, less, less. And I'm like, not helping yourself. But what do you notice with people in that front? Here's what I noticed. Generally people who are not eating enough, there are some key. Indicators. Number one is a just complete focus on food all of the time. If you are constantly focused, constantly thinking about food, what am I gonna eat? What am I going to eat? Is it time to eat? No, I shouldn't eat. That is a pretty good indicator. Another one is if you are a person who ends up eating a lot late at night, particularly like really late at night, let's say some people will. Say, I do great during the day, and then at night the wheels come off. Or some people even will be in their terms, okay? And they'll wake up in the middle of the night and eat. Sometimes they remember it, sometimes they don't. Late night, middle of the night eating is often, often, often a signal of not eating enough. During the day. The other one for me that I notice a lot is, the types of foods that you start craving. If you notice that you are just like, give me like all the nuts, all the nut butter, you find yourself like eating peanut butter out of a jar and you. You can't control that. A lot of times that craving, that super dense kind of fatty, like high caloric food, that can also be an indicator, especially if it's, you've kind of liked peanut butter in the past or whatever, but now all of a sudden you're like, I don't know what's going on, but I am just like eating it straight from the jar. That can also be an indicator. Yeah. What about you? What other things do you notice? It's the late night. Everything happening all at once. So it's like nothing, nothing, nothing. And then everything is happening. And what's hard about breaking that cycle is that because they're eating so much at night, then they're not hungry in the morning. And so I'm like, yeah, we have to sometimes actually maybe have you eat a little when you're not hungry Because you can't break this pattern otherwise. That's right. I think, that's the hard part. I just didn't know if you were seeing it differently on your side. Yeah. So that's helpful Yeah. I was just gonna say in terms of like where you were just talking about like it's hard'cause in the morning you're not hungry and there's also the, well, I just ate so much. Right? So there's that kind of desire to want to make up for it and I've got so much food in me,, I shouldn't need that. But there are, especially for people who have been struggling with binge eating for quite some time, there's a lot of. I don't know. There's an idea out there that I should be able to just eat when I'm hungry and stop when I'm full and like I should just be able to do that. And for people who have been on the restrict binge cycle for a long time. They often don't have connections with their hunger signals. Yes. And so the idea that you can just eat when you're hungry and stop when you're full really doesn't work very well. I actually did, on my podcast, I did a whole series a, a hunger series with a lot of different episodes just around the topic of hunger because it's a complicated topic I think it's a complicated topic for any human, but most particularly for a human who struggles. With food and struggles with their weight and struggles with binge eating. It's like you hear these messages and there's this ideal of, I just wanna be an intuitive eater and just eat when I'm hungry and stop when I'm full. But there's so many reasons that that. Doesn't work for everyone. That people think, well, I just have to keep trying or I'm a failure if I'm eating through, eating in a kind of a different way. If hunger is a complicated topic for you, There's several, I can't remember how many episodes there were. At least six or seven. Yeah, in the series., In the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. We'll make sure to link to those'cause., I find it's a hundred percent I'm a big fan of what you're talking about where hunger signaling can't work for everyone, and I find if you have any type of medical conditions there are many of them that affect this, and it's very shaming. Then when you're like, well, you should just eat one hungry and stop at enough, and you're thinking, I couldn't do it to save my life if I wanted to. And then people will continue to shame and say, no, you need to slow down more. And there's just limits to this. And so I like that there's, a different perspective for it. Can we switch to, you talked about this safety paradox and can you explain to our listeners a little bit about what that is?'cause I think it's just a fascinating concept. It really is a fascinating concept. So think about for yourself as you are listening to this, is there a food that you can think of that's your favorite food, like your absolute favorite food, maybe it's a comfort food, maybe whatever it is. Like what is just your, I love this food. So just imagine as you're listening, I'm sure a food has already come up in your mind. So what is it for you? For me. Yeah. It'd be like Sour Patch kids. Okay. Okay. Do you have a specific memory around it, or is there any kind of connection, anything for it? Totally fine if not, but I think for me it's probably like end of the day relaxing. It's a nice tart, sugary, yeah. I think that's it. Yeah. Okay. So then here's what happens with the safety paradox is food that at one point was a source of safety. When I think about, for me, if I think about my favorite food that I love, it would be anything that's like cinnamon. Like a coffee cake or there's one food in particular that's like my favorite. That's like some people might call it monkey bread. It's like warm white rolls with this gooey butterscotchy stuff on top with nuts. And when I think about that, I have two memories that come up for me. One is we would eat coffee cake on Sundays as a family, and just like that connection as a family, I also have very distinct memories of hiding in my pantry, eating brown sugar out of. A spoon. Yeah. And so it's like these foods that like have, once were a source of comfort. The coffee cake on Sundays or even the eating the brown sugar in the pantry then, so that feels really safe. Food is safe. This is a source of safety. This is a source of comfort. Then at some point, that same food becomes. Not safe. It's like, oh no, don't eat sugar, sugar's really bad. Once I start eating that I can't stop. So the food that once was a source of safety now becomes a source of danger or a source of threat. Mm-hmm. So it's this safety paradox where, there's a part of me that really wants this food and, is like seeking safety and comfort in this food. But there's this other part of me that's like, no, no, no. That's not safe at all. And so that very source of food that once was a source of safety is now a source. Danger. And so the answer then is to establish safety around really, ultimately the goal is to establish safety around all foods. Now, does this mean that we all go out and we eat all foods all the time, in any amount, whenever? No, because that wouldn't feel good at all physically or emotionally, but we can create safety with food and establish safety with our bodies. That's a whole nother topic, is safety and our bodies. But if we can establish safety with our bodies and safety with food, then we don't get into the situation where, here's this food. I really like it, but at the same time it's like, I shouldn't be eating this. This is bad. This is gonna do all these horrible things. To me, that creates so much internal conflict. Your nervous system on that high alert and. To think that we are going to create that calm, peaceful, connected relationship with food that we like When we are in this battle with this food is simultaneously feeling safe and warm and comforting, but also totally threatening and really scary. That's the challenge. Yeah. This is beautiful how you describe it.'cause someone in my group the other day was talking about Halloween candy.'Cause Halloween's coming up. Yes. And I don't remember what candy it was, but they were like, oh, I don't even have one, because then I would have 10. And I was talking through, there's different ways to handle this. But that I was like, I don't ever, I exactly what you were saying. I was like, I don't want you to ever fear food. There's ways that we could. Work on this. We don't need to keep a whole bowl of it around, we walk by it 20 times during the day, but just not having this fear.'cause I think that this is something that I've really worked on over the past few years and we have all these little Darden candy bags right now, for Halloween coming up. Yes. And they're like zero appealing, like every so often once a week. And they put two, by the way, this, I was bitching to the group about this. When you normally get Sour Patch kids, there's like however many in it. Mm. These little Halloween bags have Three in them. It's nothing compared to a normal, serving size. Right. But there's no allure to open 50 of them or because I refuse to have this be a thing anymore where I can't have it any day I want it. Yes. Or it has to be like certain days or whatever. How do people start to work on that safety though?'cause I think that, yeah. I work a lot with my group on no foods are good or bad. Some foods feel great for us and get us further to ours, but, really there's a time and a place for everything. But do you have a way that you work on it with people? Yeah, absolutely. It's such a good que it's such a good point. I was having a similar reflection. I went to the store, this was a couple days ago. I was at the grocery store. I was walking by, walked past the Halloween candy, and very similarly it was like, like nothing. Zero desire. But I will tell you, for me, when I started really challenging my relationship with these foods, I went through, a period of no sugar, no flour, don't eat any of these things. I went through all of that, and then I went through and what I believe is really there are no good or bad foods. I think all foods fit and I think each individual really has to figure out what works for them from the lens of, we don't want to fear any foods. We don't want to feel like we don't trust ourselves around any food because from the nervous system lens, anytime we get into a situation where. Something feels awful and scary. That is just the way we're gonna react from that place is gonna be really different. So there are absolutely lots of different ways that you can do it. And I think, again, this really isn't a one size fits all approach, but within the restriction. So the way that I did it when I started really like bringing things in is when, because I used to Halloween candy, I used to only buy it when I would binge. Or often I would, like the day after, I would go buy it all on sale and then eat a bunch of it. And then I decided, you know what? I'm totally gonna change my relationship with candy. And I started really asking what do I want? What do I really like? What do I enjoy? Getting really curious about it. And the way that I did it and the way that I did it isn't. Exactly how I would necessarily recommend it for everyone. This is going to be very individual based on where you're starting and what your situation is. But the way that I did it was I thought, you know what? I am going to really get curious. I'm gonna figure out what I like. I'm going to have this food in the house. I'm not gonna buy so much of it that I have a ton, but I'm also not going to just only buy. A little bit, because that might still feel restrictive for me. Mm-hmm. So I went through and I would walk around, I would spend time, what do I want? Why do I want this? And I just allowed myself stuff. I realized what I liked. What I didn't like. And I really just checked in how does this make me feel? What do I notice? All of the things. And I would say probably for several years it really changed. Every year was a little bit different. It was this learning process. And I wish that people would, I wish more people would just understand change just takes time. It really does. I'm so glad you're saying this.'cause I'm thinking about what I do now is so different than six years ago. Yes. And it's like a one small example for me is that, so we have this new bakery thing down the street. It's really nice because it's all local and it's like community supported. Okay. It's all great. But the point is it's really, a grab bag if it's gonna be good or not. What you get, you get a piece of different things, right? And, if I don't like it, I just throw it out and I don't care. Anyone here can judge. I'm like half a bite. If it's bad, I'm spitting it out and I'm moving on. But it's just because I only wanna have good stuff. Like I'm just over this where we like, because we got it, we have to eat it. No, I don't know. I have no guarantees. Yes. And so to your point, that took me years to get there.'cause I'd be like, well, I started it. We have to finish. It's like this guilt. Yes, yes. I'm like, no, I don't have that anymore. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. One of my standards for myself with food is I only eat food that I really, really enjoy. Yeah. Which means there are times I'm like, no, I won't eat that. Or I might look at something and it's all there and that doesn't look worth it to me. And by worth it, I don't mean worth it because it's bad or worth it because of whatever it's like. Doesn't look like I would really like it or really enjoy it. Yeah. Yes. Then I had to figure out of all of these foods that have always just been off limits, what do I really enjoy? And I would figure it out and now it's like I don't really enjoy any of those foods. And so it was this slow process that over time. I was checking in with what do I want, what do I like about this? What don't I like? I would buy something and, just really giving myself permission now, giving yourself permission this is what's gonna look different for everybody. Like any individual person really doing this work. Some people will come in and say, okay, I'm gonna give myself permission. I was actually working with somebody, on this the other day. They were saying, I'm gonna give myself permission to eat food. But in a couple of weeks I'm going on vacation and as soon as I come home,, I'm gonna, buckle down and get serious. I like, I hate that firm. Yeah. I was like, well, you're not really giving yourself permission. That's pretend permission because partial really what you're, yeah. Right now there's permission, but. Famine is coming, restriction is coming. Mm-hmm. That's still on the horizon. That's not actually permission. But what also isn't permission is just I'm gonna just get, let myself eat whatever I want without regard for how I feel, without regard for my emotional energy, my physical energy, what else is happening for me when I eat these foods? That's also. Not what I mean when I talk about having permission, it's like we really want the connection, the connection with number one, do I like these foods? What do I like about them? Do I enjoy them? How do I feel when I eat them? How do I feel afterwards? All of that, like it's all a part of the puzzle and it really does take time for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Every time I talk to you, I'm like, we could talk for hours. And anyone that's listening, I'm really excited. Jane is hopefully gonna be able to come into the, January 30, 30 round and come in and just talk to us a little bit because I think there's so much that we can all learn from you. So can you tell everybody how can they find you, what things you have currently going on right now. Just tell us a few things just so everybody can have a good grasp. Yeah, absolutely. My website's probably a great place to start, which is just jane pilger.com. I've created what I call, the Binge Breakthrough Mini series, and this is a series of seven short. Videos that will really. Help you get under the hood. It'll help you understand why you binge, why you struggle with food and how to stop. That's a great, I would say great first place is checking out that miniseries so that you can really. Just do a deeper dive into that little short videos that you can go through on your own time. That's a great resource, as well. The book is available on Amazon and the companion workbook, it's called the Binge Eating Breakthrough, same name as the podcast, so you can find that. And then I mentioned the workshop that's coming up here. Which I think will be the day this comes out. So if you are listening to this in October of 2025, we'll have a link for the workshop. You can sign up and you'll be able to get the replay through the end of October. So that'll also help the telltale signs, a binge just coming. We'll do be doing more of diving into. What is happening in your body when that happens? I'm also gonna be guiding people through, a new process to help that shift where we were talking about, that shift in your own body. So I'm gonna be guiding them through a process during that workshop, which would be pretty fun and something new that I've never done before. So I'm excited about that. I love that. This is so great. I hope everybody goes and signs up for that. We're gonna make sure everybody in the show notes, either below or to the side of where you're listening. Also, you can go to renta clinic.com/blog, which is where we have the podcast, where we have the links to everything and we'll make sure to put all that. Just thank you so much for coming on. I always learn so much and I know that our listeners are gonna have learned so much. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Always, always enjoy our conversations.