Ep 159 - Lager Reality Check

Most lagers promise the same thing: crisp, clean, crushable. So we decided to test that promise the only way that matters, by lining up six different craft lagers in one sitting and tasting them side by side. We build our own six-pack haul from Total Wine and More and go can to can, calling out what we can actually smell and taste, and admitting when the flavor is so subtle it turns into a guessing game.

The lineup runs from Drecker’s Super Mega Lager and a certified gluten-free lager from Holidaily to a style we honestly did not expect to like as much as we did: Modist’s Supra Black, a premium Japanese-style black lager with rice, black malt, and Sorachi Ace hops. When the color gets darker, the conversation gets easier, because the flavor finally shows up. We also dig into what’s happening in beer trends for 2025: overall beer sales sliding, craft and seltzer softening, and non-alcoholic beer exploding upward, including the top-selling NA brands like Heineken 0.0 and Athletic’s Run Wild IPA.

We wrap with HeadFlyer’s two lagers that taste surprisingly close, then finish strong with Schell’s Bock Dark Lager, a smooth, bready, malt-forward dark lager that reminds us why certain lager styles stand out. If you’re searching for craft lager reviews, gluten-free beer options, Japanese black lager notes, or a real-world take on non-alcoholic beer market growth, this one is a fun listen with practical takeaways for your next six-pack.

Subscribe for more style-by-style tastings, share this with your favorite lager drinker, and leave a review if you like these comparison episodes. What lager should we hunt down next for a side-by-side test?

Thank you for listening to The Northwoods Beer Guy Podcast. If you have a question, comment or would like us to review your beer, please feel free to contact us at northwoodsbeerguy@gmail.com.

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Transcript

Welcome And Why Lagers

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Grab a beer and pull up a chair. Welcome to the Northwoods Beer Guy Podcast. Hey, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome back to the Northwoods Beer Guy Podcast. This is Mike, the Northwoods Beer Guy, and once again I am Boin it Boyn, joined by my trusty sidekick, Jim. Hey buddy, how you doing? I'm doing all right. How you doing? But you can't say that five times really quick. No, it's it's a rough start. I don't know what's going on. I haven't had a beer in almost a day. So you're already starting to get the DTs. Yeah, exactly. You know, ladies and gentlemen, we you know, Jim's been doing a lot of research, finding songs to kind of start, and who'd have thought that this category would have been so difficult to try and find a song? So I mean, we I mean, and we actually looked, I mean, it wasn't like we just cursory like took a glance. I mean, we actually dig did some deep diving to try to find, and nobody has a good song about our this category. No, it's just kind of crazy. So we had to go back to old school. We're just talking, we're just talking through it working our way through it. We got to work our way through it. We don't know what to do. It's all see, that's all messed up already. So we don't know what's going on. Maybe one of the listeners might have a good song that could let us know what they think. That is true. Yeah. If anybody out there knows a good song that's based on lagers, lagers. You know, last week we kind of surprised ourselves with the Pilsner class that we had. Yes, very good. Yeah, and like I said, uh, I don't know how many times last week, I thought it was gonna be six cans of the same. Today could be six cans of the same, we don't know, but we were surprised by that. So we went to the lager side, the lager, yeah. So we've got the lacrosse lagers. No, no, not l-o G G E R S. We got L A G E R S. Nice. So yeah, we've got uh six beers, four pint cans, two regular 12 ouncers, no bottles, no bottles. We have five breweries because there's uh a double hitter, two different ones from one of these breweries. So yeah, it should be interesting. So yeah, I mean, even I think hopefully everybody gets a chance to look at the picture because every every can I think we have every color in the rainbow covered here for these cans, which is unique. You don't usually get like this, but I guess that's one good thing. Yeah, I was gonna say there's some wild artwork, and then there's some pretty, pretty professionally, you know, subdued. There's yeah, they're all look very very different. Yes. So it's that actually brings up a good point. That I actually do have a question about that, too. About the artwork? Uh no, about beers. Oh, good. I say because I'm worse at artwork guessing, I think. Yeah, I wouldn't give you one of those. That'd be too hard. That'd be too hard. I'll give you some easy questions. I appreciate that because yeah. Come on, dude. Really? Yeah. All right. So should we start? Oh, we might as well start one off and see where it

Beer 1 Super Mega Lager

SPEAKER_00 3:03

takes us. What do you got there? Well, the first one that we have is by Drecker. Nice. And we've we've had a number of beers from Drecker. They're out of Fargo. Yep. Far Fargo, North Dakota. There you go. And now we don't have just their lager. We don't, no, we don't. We don't even just have their mega lager. We got we got more than that. We have a super mega lager. Oh, wow. That's that's that even sounds good. That sounds pretty crazy. Super mega lager from Drecker, four and a half percent ABV on the low side. Yeah, I say I'm guessing most of these are gonna be kind of worked out. So here's what their little write-up said it's super, it's mega, it's a new lager. All right, I can get that from there. There you go. Exclamation exclamation points, yeah. Super mega lager is a super classy, mega crisp lager that's all kinds of light and crushable. Here we go. Do we know what crushable is? Just that you can drink it, I'm pretty sure. Marketing, you know. All right, let's see. It's crushable, and we can't wait to raise a bunch of glasses of this with all of you wonderful weirdos. They're talking about you, it could be weird, you never know. So, all their drinkers, you know, people that are weirdos or drink their beer? Well, well, maybe that's a good marketing. A lot of their artwork makes you wonder. So there that is very true. Like I said, you know, we've had Drecker. I think they're they're known a lot of sours. Yes. What else? They've got a few different lagers that I've seen, things like that. But I when I think Drecker, I'm thinking more to the sour side. Yes, yes. So because isn't that part of what their name is I think you're right, it's just short, shortened version of that whatever it is that they put into beer to make it sour. I think you're right. I think that was you brought that up one time. So you're right, yeah. I don't even know what is on that can, dude. I'm not sure what kind of a critter several eyeballs looking at you. A lot of eyeballs has got uh wings, wings, or at least a helmet with wings on it. It kind of reminds me a little bit of the one ghost on Ghostbusters Slimer, but this one's got way more eyes and kind of creepy looking. So yeah, he's got his eye on you. There you go. Well, yeah, he's got his eyes on both of us because he's got enough of it to do that. So all right, let's crack this bad boy open and we'll see what the super mega lager is all about. Yeah, I thought it was interesting that the the brewery is in a building that was built in the 1880s, yeah. One of the first buildings in Fargo. I saw on online that they and it's like I don't remember if it's an old train type build, some kind of building. It is, it says it was built by the Northern Pacific as a locomotive repair building and foundry. Okay, and I know that they've got some other like quote unquote stores, they're like craft vendor type people in that same building with them, really. So they've opened it up to that kind of thing, you know. It's one of those buildings that I know my brother had talked about. That man, we really need to kind of go and look at because it looks online. The pictures look pretty crazy. I mean, like really cool. And they call their tap room Brewhalla. Yes, that's right. So all right. Ooh, pretty uh light, pretty light. A little hazy, is that a little hazy, yeah, but not overly hazy. Smells like a lager. Is that that smell? You know, it's kind of that little bit of a yeasty. That's I smell something different. It's not like the pilsner's no film smell. It's not bad. No, I mean, not a huge amount of flavor, but I mean there there is some flavor. Is it a little salty? Is that or what is that? I'm trying to figure out what that flavor is. I don't know what to call that. It's it's I get where you can say it's kind of salty, but it's but that's not the flavor. I don't know. I can't figure out what that is. I wish they gave us a little more info on what was in it. You know what I mean? Because you don't even know what kind of hops are it. No, not at all. It's it's interesting. I will give them that. Light and crushable, I I guess. This would be on a hot day sitting out in the garage. You could you could crush at least a pint can or two of this. Yeah, 4.5%. Yep. I mean, you you're not gonna get scared away. There's nothing it says super mega, but it's not super mega flavorful lager. It's a super mega lager. So it's I mean, it's it's just kind of there. Yeah, it's I'm still trying to figure out what that that flavor is. It's almost got a man, I don't know. Very hard to describe almost like super faint, almost like either like a pineapple-y, lemony kind of little bit of lemony, but isn't that kind of you know what I mean? Yeah, like that lemon, yeah, it's it's just so faint though it's hard to really pick out. There's just something on the aftertaste. But it's not bad, it's just not a lot, right? Right. Exactly. It is to go first. Oh man, I knew you were gonna say that. This is gonna be super mega difficult to say the least. I I think this is a a good example of kind of a I don't want to say a generic, but like a kind of a generic lager. Yeah, you know, where where you could sit down and drink a couple of the pint cans, and I don't think it would, I don't think the flavor would would tire you out, so to speak. Right, you know what I mean? I'm not sure that it could have almost fit in with the pilsner's, yeah, you know, kind of. Yep, without a doubt. Yeah, I think on this one, boy, I'm gonna go like a I'll go. I'm trying not to paint myself in a corner right off the bat. I'm gonna go a 2.4, even though I was gonna put it at a 2.5, but I'm gonna go a 2.4 just because I wish it had a little bit more of something, but it it's very drinkable, and I can see, like I said earlier, sitting in the garage or whatever with this ice cold, you could you could drink it and be totally fine. So a good example of that. I think anybody could drink it. Yeah, it's definitely I mean light and crushable. I guess that's it does hit those very I mean it's there's just not flavor there. I mean, if you're looking for flavor, this isn't the one, but if you're looking to have a few for on a on a hot summer day, this is there. I'm right in there, I'm gonna say a 2.3. I know there is a little bit of flavor, but just not a lot. I mean, right. I think that I mean, as good as it is, I think they could have put a little bit of something in it. Yep, I agree with you. You know, and like I said, it's one of those things where a new person could definitely drink it. Yes, you know, I think that's the one thing that it has going for it, really. If you're new to craft beer and you're like, oh, you know, I you could drink this. Oh, yeah, you know, and it'd be totally fine. So yeah, good job, Drecker. You know, it was it was interesting.

2025 Beer Sales Trend Quiz

SPEAKER_00 9:37

So I did when I was looking up for all the stuff, I found a little bit of some some statistics for 2025 regarding beer, beer in general. Okay, so overall for 2025, beer sales are down about three percent, which is about in a big scheme, two billion dollars. Yeah, so three percent isn't much, but two billion dollars. I mean, for you it's not a lot of money, but for us common folk, yeah, that's that's a lot. So of those, of that three percent, which three beer segments that's how they define it, okay, are down the most? Beer segments. So you're talking like beer style, so to speak, right? Or because so like craft beer is a segment, seltzers, oh okay, premium beer. Okay. So um boy, so there's three that are down that are down. Right man, because yeah. That's a tough one because you know, when some of the big name beers have fallen off, but then another one will kind of take its place. So it's like, is it really down that much? Well, and I know craft beer has been down. Yep, so that's one. That's one of them. What else is gonna be down? Let's say, and I don't know if this let's just I guess let's say, you know, I don't if you call it because we always refer to it like the the big box beer, the premium like the domestic premiums. Okay, yes. Yep, okay. So that's two. Yep, that's the second one. What's the other one? Imported seltzers. Oh, really? So seltzer. Yes, I so seltzers and craft beer are down four percent. Okay, and domestic premiums are down six percent. Oh, so they're down so I didn't know what domestic premiums were defined as. So they had three things, and they said usually they're higher alcohol content. What domestic beer is so for theirs they say above 4.5%. Oh, oh my mistake. So I'm like, really? That's higher. All right. Craftsmanship, premium beers are often produced by breweries that prioritize quality and detail in their brewing process. Hmm. I don't know who wouldn't. Yeah, I was gonna say you you would think that that would be a big thing in any brewing, and then a distinct flavor profile like for these premium beers again, yeah. Ah, yeah, so it says beers often showcase a wide range of flavors from hoppy and bitter to smooth and malty. Well, that kind of covers the entire spectrum. So it really didn't narrow it down. So they didn't give any examples of the domestic premiums are interesting. That's kind of wild. Right. So I don't know if that made more questions or to give us any more answers. It's like okay. Well, you know, yeah, I remember a number of years ago when the craft market first exploded and went, it was going crazy. I I remember I saw a thing online, and I don't remember all of because they had the top ten beers that were affected by the craft brewing surge. Oh, yep. And I I remember I remember the number one one that was hurt the most, and it was Miller Genuine Draft. Oh, and which is funny because I remember before craft beer, that's what I drank. Drank that. And that year, whichever year it was, and I apologize, I don't remember the year for sure, but it was you know within relative short time. But they said they were down like 500,000 barrels a year. Wow, so it took a big hit. That was a big hit, yeah. And so it's like I don't know if that you know could be in that category or not. I don't know. But you think about it, it's like how many domestic beers are above four and a half, right? I mean, really, it's uh because I don't know what you know. Well, that's that's what's gonna help for the next questions I ask you because they actually gave me a few styles in the next one. Oh boy, all right. So this that's now you really gotta get your thinker going. I gotta get my thinker going. So I suppose we might as well try and kickstart it with the next beer.

Beer 2 Gluten-Free Darty Lager

SPEAKER_00 13:43

So well, the next one, I'm not gonna lie, when I first saw the can sitting there, I thought it said dirty. Oh is what I thought. And I was like, what kind of beer are you getting? So we should say, ladies and gentlemen, all of these beers we bought in a build-your own six-pack. Yep. Again, when we went to Total Wine and More in Rochester, Minnesota. Yep. So that's we have not had any of these. No. So this is again, just like last week with the Pilsners, is going to be an interesting comparison. Yes. So all right, this one. This one is actually called Darty. Darty. D-A-R-T-Y. It's gluten-free. Nice if that, you know, listeners, if you need that, it's a gluten-free lager from Holiday. Nope. Nope. Holiday. There you go. Boy, holiday brewing company, and it is four and a half percent ABV and ten IBUs, and it's out of golden Colorado. Yes. So we went from North Dakota to Colorado. And what this one, their little description was Darty Lager shines onto the scene with a light, bright vibe that particularly begs for sunshine and good company. Well, the sunshine actually came out a little bit. Oh, yep, it did. And I would say we have good company. There you go. I would say, yep, it's crisp, crushable. Uh-oh, crushable again. See, I'm sensing the package in a row. Two in a row. They're both crushable and crafted for those moments when fun is non-negotiable. Let's get the Darty started. Nice. Oh boy. So this beer or this type of beer is because the owner, Karen, has survived both melanoma and thyroid cancers. Oh, geez. So then as a result, she had to have a gluten-free diet. Okay as part of her treatment. So with these lifestyle changes, while essential for her health, posed a challenge for her love of beer. Okay. So that's why she came up with this. So it is this holidaily brewing is 100% certified as gluten-free. The whole brewery. Okay. So then she can drink her beers there. And I saw on the can it said 100% gluten-free and 100% good beer. Oh, wow. Is what it said. So there you go. You get a double whammy. Yeah. Two wins. Boy, this one is clear. That is light. I mean, this is light, but I mean it's not hazy at all. This is like super big. They waved the yellow wire. I can see you through that. They waved yellow wire. They didn't even stick it. They're just going to wave yellow. Exactly. Wow. That is light. Smells. Is that the glutenless lesseness? I don't know, but it's uh got a little different aroma to it. Yeah, it's not the same as the first one. No. Boy, that is that is crisp. Yeah. Very it. It's I'm not going to say light in flavor. There is flavor. It's just the first one. There was flavor, not huge amounts of flavor. On either of them. Right. But boy, it's there and gone kind of thing, you know. Yeah, I like it's very hard to describe because there's not not a strong flavor. It's almost got a on the initial swallow, almost like a I don't know how you describe it, uh a tartness or a sharpness to it a little bit. But it goes away quick. It goes away quick. But it's like initially, whoop, oh, gone. You know, it's like that for being so light in color. I mean, it's yeah, that's light and it's light and crisp. Oh, yeah, it is crisp, that's for sure. It's just very hard to describe. I mean, the flavor, I mean, it I I can't describe these first two at all. No, not that I've had a huge amount of gluten-free beers. We've had some, it's not bad, but I don't know if I could drink a bunch of this one. This is really hard to in comparison to the pills, which there were some flavors, these are there's not a lot there. I mean, we're I mean, we're we're splitting the hair, we split the hair and split the hair to try to figure out and we're only two in. Yeah, this is it's just not a lot of. I mean, you I don't think you could be scared if you bought a none and tried it. I think you'd be okay. It's just really, really hard to describe what what you're tasting. Yeah, I mean, if we did a blind taste test in the first two, I don't know if I could I wouldn't, yeah. Because we could probably do it now if we didn't if you didn't see the color, right? You know, it'd be difficult. But it's there's not a lot there. No, you know, and if you need gluten-free beer, I mean this is definitely an option, you know. And I do think there's getting to be a few more gluten-free beers out there, right? And there's there's some that are pretty decent. Yeah, this one is just I guess if it was between not getting to drink a beer and drinking this, okay. Right, not a problem, right? You know, so you I guess you get to go first on the Darty. There, there is a slight difference between this one and the director, but not not very of not a very wide gap. A little, and I'm only gonna I'm gonna say a 2.4 only because it does have a touch more flavor. I and I don't know if it's the the gluten-free, I don't know what's causing that extra sharp, crisp, crushable. It's just very hard to describe. It's not a bad beer, it's just not it's very difficult to describe. Yeah. I mean, if this was like Miller Light or a Bush light, I mean it does there's just not a lot to it. Yep. Yeah, I agree with you, man. I'm gonna go with 2.3. I'm gonna go the other way. I just think that between the two, I think I'd probably drink the the first one first. You should drink that one, I think. It's just I don't know what that that little bit of a flavor, that initial flavor is that's got kind of that party, whatever. I don't know how to describe it. Different, it's a different flavor to it a little bit. It goes away quick. Don't get me wrong, not it doesn't hang around, but it's just that initial one is just a little bit more different. I'm not sure on this one, you know. So, yeah, there you go. Yeah, we're we're starting out, we're starting off.

Which Beer Segments Are Growing

SPEAKER_00 19:20

We're not moving very fast, right? All right, so now we're up to question number two, another easy one. Oh, yeah. So we talked about how beer cereals were down for 2025. Talked about the the three that are down the most. So which three segments are up the most? So segments. THC. Okay. If that's considered a beer, okay, that would be one. All right. Hmm. What's it gonna be the other two that are up? Sours? Okay, total gas and well, um since it wasn't in the last one, I'll say import. All right, so you you smoke and missed it. That one. So domestic super premiums and cider, so modest growth. Oh, ciders did? Yep. Wow, that kind of surprises me. And non-alcoholic were up 22 percent. I should have known that. The NA beers. I totally dropped that one with athletic brewing, which we've had a few of those in that one podcast. Yep. Now is a billion dollar brand. Oh my word. They've shot up so much. That's crazy. So the what is weird, so I looked up the definition for the domestic super premium. Yeah, yeah. So those first three are exact same verbiage, exact same everything that we talked about in the last question. Oh, yeah. And then their only addition is market presence, and they describe that as this is where some of the top-selling domestic premium beer brands include Michelobe Ultra, Budweiser, and Coors Light. Those are considered domestic premiums. I thought was it premiums or super? What was it? Domestic super premiums. Well, I guess I have a different definition for those beers, but so huh. That was a little different. That was different. Interesting. Oh, we better get another beer before. I'm confused, dude. We better get another beer. It's like they always say you can't use this the word to just give a definition of the word. So when they're talking about super premium, is the super premium beer, you know, it's like you can't use it to just define itself, right? It doesn't like and then by saying Coors Light and Miklob Ultra are yeah, domestic super. Yeah, I much different definition. Big to differ on that. So we would definitely agree to disagree with them on that. There you go. Well, hey, this next beer may actually have a little more flavor. I'm

Beer 3 Japanese Black Lager Surprise

SPEAKER_00 21:48

hoping. Yes, I don't know if I've had this one of these before. I I know I've had, I think I've had before, not this one particular, but I think we've had this style before. All right, well, it looks interesting, yeah. Looks interesting. So this is oh, I take that back because I don't think I've ever had this on. This one is called Supra Black, and it's from Modest Brewing out of Minneapolis, 5% ABV. And this is a premium Japanese style black lager. Right. Now I was thinking black lager, I think we've had. Yes. But no, premium Japanese style. I'm pretty sure I've never even heard of that. I didn't know that either. I was like, oh, wow. Oh, so their description. First off, they're ripping somebody off. Yes. It says back in black. Yep. Period. Period. It's supra, but darker and back. Okay. That's the post. Reintroducing Supra Black, a premium Japanese style black lager with Pilsner malt, rice, black malt, and srirachi ace hops. I hope I said that right. It looks like sriracha. Right. You didn't say srirachi. You said e. Interesting. So they said at Modest, we push past traditional brewing by embracing creativity and unconstrained experimentation. Well, let's so this should be interesting. I mean, you know, here a few years back, we did imported beer podcast, and I'm trying to remember if we had one from Japan or not. I don't remember. Yeah, none of them really stick out like they were really good. No, there was pretty yeah, yeah, probably below 2.5 for stores. I think the vast majority of them were. I'm betting this one's darker than the first one. I think this one's gonna be darker than the first one. Oh, yeah. This one kind of reminds me of well, the more that gets in the glass, the darker it gets. I was gonna say it's kind of like a pill or a pilsner, a porter. I was gonna say a porter. A dark first starts out brown, then turns black. First, I was gonna say a brown ale, but then it gets black the more I poured in there. So interesting. The head is definitely that is brown. That's dark. That has potential, maybe. Yeah, I can't see you through it. I can't even see my fingers. Yeah, no. Well, there's a little bit of aroma. A little bit of aroma. Like almost is that burnt smell? Kind of. I'm just wondering. Very faint. I'm wondering with the rice if it's gonna be, you know, because a lot of the big beers use rice because it's cheaper. Right, like Budweiser and Hauser Busch. Yes, things like that. Bush. Well, here it goes. Nothing. Here we go. It was more flavor than the first two. Definitely more flavor. Smooth. It's almost really smooth, like creamy almost. Yep. I don't know why creaminess comes to mind. You kind of nailed that burnt. The aftertaste is kind of that burnt. Like my tongue is a little bit dry now. Yeah, but it's it's got flavor. No. Honestly, I'm not uh I'm not angry with that one. No, I'm and again, I I can't compare it to other Japanese style flag lockers. Right. I can't get I can't really if you've had some before. I I don't know where this would rate on that scale. Yep, no, I agree with you, dude. I was gonna say I can't compare it any other ones because I guarantee this is the first Japanese style one that I've had. But I mean it's good. I mean, I don't mind it. No. I mean, I was a little apprehensive because we've had some black lager. I think we've had some yeah, we've had some black lagers, and they were almost like a porter. This is not like that flavor. This is no, but it does kick up the lager scale a little bit. Yeah, and that's the one nice thing that with these ones we do have now. The rest of them kind of down the line are a little bit they're different styles of lagers, yes. Where the first two was just lager, that's you know, so pretty much I was thinking, okay, we should be able to step it up a little bit with flavor, working our way here. So, yeah, this is interesting. Yeah, I mean, this it's not it, it's not gonna scare you away. I mean, it might at first where it says Japanese style black lager, I mean there's a lot of words, but it's actually not bad. I mean, no, I'll go, I do think it's a little bit above average. I mean, and compared to the first two, it definitely has more flavor. So I'm gonna go 2.6. It's good. I mean, it's I just wish I could compare it to somebody, something else, so uh the other listeners would kind of know what we're tasting, but I mean, it's it's decent. I could drink a whole can, I think. Yep, I agree. The and the more when you were talking, the more when I was taking a couple more sips, that burnt flavor kind of goes away, right? You know what I mean? So you get a little more accustomed to it. I'm gonna go with the same two six. I was thinking the exact same thing. Surprisingly, I don't I don't mind this, you know. It it vaguely reminds me of kind of an entry-level porter, right? A little bit, definitely not a brown ale. At first, I was thinking a brown ale. No, no, no, this is closer to a porter. Yep. I don't know how the the rice affects that, but I'm sure that's part of it, you know. Yep, but yeah, I listened to a good job. Yeah, I I don't mind that. This that's pretty good, definitely different, and like I said, a new style. I'm pretty sure. So we're breaking we're breaking new grounds, breaking new ground, yes.

Non-Alcoholic Beer Boom Stats

SPEAKER_00 26:47

So we were just talking about what's surprised us by the largest increase, which segment? Which was the largest increase? Yeah, I don't remember. That was like five minutes ago. Non-alcoholic. Oh, yeah, non-alcoholic, that's right. So what are the top five non-alcoholic brands by sales? By sales volume. Well, athletic, I guess, but it's probably so or you're talking like also like Bud and A. Yes, yes. Oh, geez. So to answer your question, Athletic actually has three of the top ten. Oh, really? But only one in the top five. So, but I guess what so my question was what are the what brands by sales volume are the top five? Boy. Is O'Dool still up there? They've actually dropped a lot out of the volume in the top 100. You know, at one point they were like the only thing. They actually mentioned that in the article. Oh, okay. They've dropped out of the top 100. Oh, geez. I didn't know there was that many that were in NA. It's gonna be your favorite craft beer. My favorite craft? Or monkeys roost. Oh, Heineken? Heineken NA? Or is that didn't they call it NA? No. What do they call it? Oh, zero. Zero zero, yes. Yeah, yep. They have 47 million last year in sales. Wow, okay. They're number one. They're number one. Wow. Okay, Heineken NA. Um, well, again, like I said, is like Bud, Bud Light or NA or Bud and NA or whichever zero. They go zero, zero. Are any of them NA? Nope. Oh, they're all zero. Oh, well there is one NA. Oh, that they call it. Okay. So Bud Zero is tied with is okay. Now this is probably gonna be a stretch. I don't know if it's gonna, but is Guinness zero zero or whatever that's not in their top five? Nope. Okay. This the the one tied with Bud Zero is another Anhouser Busch product. Ultra. Yep. So Bud Zero and Mick Ultra were 28 million each. Oh my word. And then the last two were tied at 25 million. Both US. Yep. Uh no, no. No. One is from Mexico. Like Modelo or Close. What's the other big brand? Well, there's Dosecis. There's Corona. There you go. Corona NA. Okay. That's the NA one. Yeah. Okay. And then you already said Athletic. And what's their best non-alcoholic brand? I couldn't tell you. Run Wild IPA. Oh, okay. So that's it. I'm trying to remember what we I think we might have had it. We might have had it. So the Corona and Athletic were tied at $25 million each. Oh. You know, it's funny because when we did that podcast, and I again I know weird beer guys and we like actual beer. But it was just like you tasted it and you're like, yeah, and then it's missing something. You know what I mean? That was the whole premise of the article that I read today. Okay. Was that it's showing the shift with like, is it the Gen Zers? Oh, sure. That don't that like to have a beer but don't like to get drunk. So they're that whole dynamic of them getting 21 now and they're in their 20s, they're impacting the craft beer market because they're not drinking the alcohol stuff. Interesting. Because I just thought like flavor-wise, they were kind of down the na ones. You know what I mean? I mean, for you and I, that's not what but for these not an option. For these introductory people, they're they don't want to have a lot of flavor or a lot of the alcohol. You know, and and it'll be interesting to see, like you said, the the Gen Z or whatever they the new one. The new millennial is. It'll be interesting to see once they get a little older if they then switch into craft beer. So this could be a pretty interesting introduction to the craft beer market. So it's kind of showing some of the trends. So I mean, I guess you really do have to see what's cell if you are a craft beer brewer, yeah. How people are taken to your your styles. Exactly. Interesting. So what do we got next? All right.

Beer 4 Viking-Themed Golden Lager

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Well, hey, so the next one we have, we're not gonna do another Japanese one. All right. So here now, this company here, we actually have two different loggers from. Okay. So the first one we have is I hope I'm saying it right, Skeleton.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

S-K E A L D E N. S-K-A-L-D-E-N. It's a golden lager, and it's from Headflyer Brewing, 5% ABV, 25 IBUs, and it's out of Minneapolis. Nice. It says this golden lager is brewed cold, appropriate for a beer born in the north. Nice. The clean, crisp finish will quench your thirst as you prepare for battle. Raise your drinking horn and cheer. Skull. Nice. So they're uh their artwork is kind of a Viking guy on there. It's very themed there, doesn't it? Uh oh, look at the color of the can too. It's purple and gold, huh? So they're interesting. They're imitating a famous sports team. Yeah. Well, there's like some interesting stuff. They got like the Viking ships on here, and like the I don't remember what they call that, kind of a runestone-looking type thing, and some alehorns and interesting. So it says the name Headflyer evolved from the name of a lake at the family cottage to our reason for being to be head flyer is to boldly step outside your comfort zone, pursue possibility, and take on the unknown. Oh, well, there you go. So that's the brewer. That's the brewer. So now we get to see how their beers are. So now this is a golden lager. So this is a different style, yeah. So this is definitely golden, definitely golden. It does have a little bit of a haze. Yeah, you can't see can't see through it, not like that second one. Right. So this is definitely golden in color. Yep. You get a little aroma, not a lot, not a whole lot, though. There's a little, it's a smooth flavor. Yeah. Not a huge amount of flavor again, but it's it's definitely kind of smooth. Yeah, the aftertaste isn't bad. I mean, it's really about as like right down the center of the road as you can get. I mean, there's more a lot. You already know what my score is gonna be then. I mean, it's I mean, there's not a flavor, but there's nothing bad about it. This is another one anybody could drink. You know, and it's it's not gonna scare anybody off the flavor. Like I said, it's actually a really a smooth flavor. Yeah, and it does have there is flavor. There's more so than than a couple that well, that second one for sure. But it's it's I could drink a couple of them sitting outside. Yeah, you know, it's yeah, I mean, there's definitely nothing bad. Nope. It's just it's just not a lot there. There's just right. I'm I'm going to 2.5. Yeah, that's my right down the middle. We've had way worse, we've had better, but it's it's a good example. Somebody knew definitely could drink this. Definitely get them. I'm sitting the same score 2.5. I'm almost thinking, I mean, you could have they could have added something more to it. Right. I mean, and still get a good lager out of it, I think. Yep, yep. It's it's different, it's interesting. You know, it's one of those. I'm glad that we tried it, you know, because it's again, I don't know how many beers we've had from this company. I think we've had maybe had a couple. A couple since we've been going to total wine, right? Yeah, so yeah, when we go there, they do have a section that is like Minnesota beers, right? And there's quite a few, honestly, that are there. So it's it's kind of nice that we could pick out some and kind of throw in this group, you know. But it's definitely not bad. No, I'm right with you, same score 2.5. I mean, I on a hot day, this is ice cold, you could drink easily drink a can of it. Oh, yeah, for sure. I agree a hundred percent with you on that. It's definitely not bad. Nope. So, what other information do you

Why Craft Beer Labels Stay Unique

SPEAKER_00 34:26

got for me? All right, so I thought this is a little tidbit of information. You may you you may or may not know this. Okay, how many different craft beer brands are there, and how many have identical designs? As far as like their style, are there any cans, two cans of beer that look exactly identical? Oh, and how many different craft beer brands are there? So you're talking like just the company themselves. No, I'm talking like beer styles. Like here's six different ones right here. Okay. So how many total are there? I thought you knew this one off the top of your head. Yeah. Well, I think there's there's a badge on untapped for wheel of styles. Okay, and I can't remember exactly how many there are. I think there's like close to 200 different styles, isn't there? Yep. So that's a that's a good starting point. So how many would you have to times it by to get to that number that I'm looking for? There's more than that. Oh, yeah. Wow. Cause styles. So like oh, sure. So yeah. So then each yeah, yeah. I gotcha. Jeez, I let's say times 10. So there's like 2,000 different types. And there's zero. 200,000? No, 20. Oh, 20,000. 2,000 and 94 different beer brands. That's that's a lot. Yeah. And how many are actually have the same branding? Everything. Well, you would think there'd have to be something, but I'm gonna say zero. You are right. Woo! There are none. So that was the whole point of that little paragraph. Yep. That there's 22,000 different beer brands, and the beer, you know, whoever's doing their marketing, nobody has made anything identical. So everybody, so that's one unique thing about craft beers. It's not like the big box ones. So 22 different 22,000 different kinds, and none of them are exactly none of them look the same. Right, Pat. Well, that's a good thing. So that's I thought I was like, well, damn, that's cool. That's kind of an interesting thing. So they're putting thought into not only their beer, but the marketing marketing, the packaging, the labeling, everything is different. The bottles, how many different bottle shapes have we seen, you know? So that's interesting. So that's cool. I mean, because you don't see that with the big box though. No, they want to just get it in the camp. Well, a lot of it's very they're not the same, but they're similar. Very, very much, you know. So I thought that was cool. Yeah, well, that's cool. All

Beer 5 Gold Medal Lager Faceoff

SPEAKER_00 36:50

right, all right. So we're on to beer number five. Well, yeah, get ready for this one. Yeah, yeah. I see this one. This is also by headflyer. Yep, okay, brewing out of the cities. This is their gold metal lager. Gold metal. Yeah, this is again five percent ABV and 25 IBUs. Now, their description on this one says sitting down, yeah. Gold lager with Magnum and Saz hops. The end. It's it's that good. They don't even have to write anything else. You don't even have to write anything else about it, and you're gonna love it. Yeah, that is the can is is kind of cool. Now, does it look like a big city? Is that kind of like Minneapolis? It's kind of like it's got you know Minneapolis made. Well, yeah, there's some of the buildings like the skyline of Minneapolis, maybe. I don't really know. I know that art, there's like a big statue of this spoon with a cherry on it, but I didn't remember that was in the cities, but it apparently is so oh skiing, somebody's cross-country skiing, so that's cool. I give them credit for that. So it's some good artwork, yeah. So we're gonna see nobody can ask us questions about what's in this because no, because we don't know. We we don't have a clue. We got no clue whatsoever. Even though we we tried, I searched high low, and and when you look on their website and you look on untapped, and that's all you got, that's what you get. Well, what's weird is like this one is not even the head flyer website. Oh, really? I had to go on untapped to get this, to get that little sentence that I could on their website. There was nothing about this beer. Wow. So and we just picked it up, yeah. So I don't know if it's already gone out of so maybe the other lager took more for this one. It could be because that's a golden lager as well. But this is a gold metal lager, yes. Huh. All right, well, let's see what we uh we think of the gold metal. There we go. Very little aroma color-wise, the same, kind of a little bit hazy, yeah, similar. Not normal beer. Not as light as the dirty, but correct. Yeah, but it's it's yellowish in color again. A nice example. Uh, if you blindfolded me, I don't know if I could tell the difference in those last two. We may have to take take a little sip of that other one again because this one is just kind of this one almost has a little bit of a dry hop finish to it. That's the only thing I can really tell the difference. It they're very, very similar. Yeah, very similar. I mean, it's well, and I'm painted into a corner too. We both are painted in a corner. I do think I might have to make an exception. Oh, you're gonna go with holy cow, hang on a second. Are you feeling okay? I think they're so close. I'm gonna boy. I personally I think the first one was better because this one definitely has more of a hop right aftertaste. There's a hat, yep. Very, very quick, yes, but you get that kind of that dry gone, you know. It's there's a just like a snap of the finger, it's the gone. Yeah, I yeah, man. I don't know. Wow. Am I am I first? Yep. Oh, dang it. We're in our fifth one. Okay, so I guess uh jeez, yeah. I wasn't gonna go in the middle of the road, and I was gonna double up just because I uh yeah, for me, it's so close. Well, I was gonna go like a 2.4. I'll go 2.45. Yeah, we've got to be able to double these, these are these are so close. It's I mean, even if we're splitting hairs, I think it's so close. I mean, I my score is gonna be at 2.5 right down the middle. I don't know. Like I said, the only thing with this one that it kind of it's just that that little bit of that hop, right? Dry just a little bit, you know, the little bit at the end, and and that's the only difference. Uh but between that, if I I would pick the that the first one, the purple the purple one before this one, yeah. My opinion. They're they're not bad. I mean, I don't think anybody would have to be scared by them. It's just there is not a lot there. It's just hard to and this one. I think if a person wasn't used to a like an IPA or anything like that has more of a hot flavor, they might not like this one as much. Oh, right. You know what I'm saying? Yep. So yeah, I think that's the main that was my main knock on it, which again it's not a big knock because I don't mind them, but it was definitely different. Yeah, it's kind of getting flashbacks to shiner. They're all taste so similar. Kind of, yeah. Like so there's not a lot of different no in these. There's so far in the first five, there's been one that has had different that actually some good flavor. Yeah. All right, so my last question for the last beer. Okay. All right.

Craft Styles That Did Not Drop

SPEAKER_00 41:23

So this article I read, they had they tracked 26 different craft beer segments. I think the segment to them would be style. Okay. 20 different styles. Okay. 26. Which two so two of the 26 did not drop in sales in 2025. Which of the two actually went up in sales? Well, is I don't know if you're gonna guess these. I was like, I was very surprised. Well, because I was gonna say is THC, is that is that a craft beer style? Yep, that's a style. So I'm guessing that's probably one of them. Okay. And then well, you had said cider was so the but I don't that's probably wrong, but I'm I'll just throw those out. All right, so you were close, not really. Okay, so the most improved craft beer for 2025 is wheat beer. Really? Right. Wow. They that was classified as their most improved, so it was up 10%. Oh geez, that's kind of wild. And our second one, I have no idea where this comes in. Kraft light beer, which is up 15%. So I wonder if that fall, like the Pilsners and stuff. Does that fall? I wonder like it's that newer generation that could be. That's not right at all. Not in our opinion. No, I was gonna say I know it's not barrel aged, I'll tell you that right now. So that I was like, so that I mean really surprised. I mean, for us and our trending here, it's not like that, but I think maybe you know, it is a little rural. We're in Wisconsin. I suppose we're older, yeah. You know, maybe the the where there's a lot more people, maybe that's it could be, yeah. But I'm surprised, I was thinking maybe sours were up there too. But no, I I think you're right with that, like the younger people if they're going into like the NA's and the American light beers. I mean, because wheat beers aren't they just have a different flavor, but they're not a lot of flavor to them either. Well, then it depends. I suppose it didn't really give any big breakdown because you think about wheat beers, and you got all your Hefeweizens and Doppelbox and all that stuff kind of falls into their right. I mean, look at the Oktoberfest beers. I mean, the the American ones did have flavor, yeah, but the German ones all did. Exactly. Man, I hope that changes around. Or we're gonna have to hold off on the German ones till the last one we do because we got we've got totally spoiled cells. Yeah, so right off the bat, and then it went downhill. All right,

Beer 6 Schell’s Bock Dark Lager

SPEAKER_00 43:54

so so we have one left on our last lager, and this one is by Shell Shell Shell's brewing. And they're out of they're out of Minneapolis and they're definitely the one of the oldest ones. Oh, there's the NSP. This is their Bach Dark Lager. Okay. And this is 6.1%, which is the highest one that we've had. Way up there. Yep. And 24 IBUs. Okay. And what their description said was strong and rich. This robust brew, commonly consumed during the coldest winter months, will warm you through to spring. Pouring dark caramel in color. Bach is lagered longer for its bready aromas, toasted caramel caramel malts, and smooth silky finish. Nice. The perfect balance of marshmallow sweetness with a hint of bitterness. Wow. So there you go. Yep. And you see there. Well, while you're pouring, I'll read a little more. Okay. So it says Shells is the second oldest family-owned brewery in the United States. Wow. And the oldest in Minnesota. In Minnesota. Okay, I thought so. In 2002, Shells became the largest brewery in Minnesota with the acquisition of the Green Belt label. Oh, wow. I did not realize they bought Green Belt. I should have had those as questions in it. You should have. I would have failed miserably. So it started in 1860 when a German immigrant August Schell settled in New Olm, Minnesota. Yep. That's a nice color. That's a bock. That's definitely a bot color. That's kind of a red dark reddish. Is that what meat? Yeah. It's not brown, but it's no, it's got a reddish, dark reddish kind of hint to it. You can't see through it, but I mean it's it's not like a cherry. No. But it's just is that or dark? It's it's a dark brown ale. There you go. Dark. Very, very good color, though. I don't know. You get a little bit of aroma, not a whole lot. Not a lot. Oh, you get flavor. Yeah, there's there's flavor there. Much better than what we've had in some of the other ones. Yes. And 6.1, you can't really. No, this is doesn't, it's not, but you can be scared by that. I mean, it's actually, I don't know. I would I mean, is that the maybe the bready breadiness or toasted caramel? I was just gonna say that's I get that kind of a bready. Yeah, kind of flavor feel. Yep. It's not bad though. I mean, it tastes decent. Yeah, that's decent. I don't mind that. I don't I'm I don't I don't really get a marshmallowy flavor out of it, but I don't get any sweetness. No, a very faint. But again, I think it's more bread flavor than a sweetness. Right. And I don't know how they would get a marshmallow sweetness with a hint of bitterness. Yeah, I don't know if my flavor palette's strong enough to I don't really sweetness on one side, the bitterness on the other side. It's a sweet bitter, yeah, or a bittersweet. You know, I mean to me, I don't get any of the bitterness. It's it tastes like no, I would I don't mind it. I could I could drink a couple of these, and this is a normal, like a 12-ounce can. Yep, yep. You know, so but the 6.1. I mean you're yeah, you still can't be scared away. No, no, it drinks very smooth, and it does have a like I said, it's not like you're tasting like you're eating a piece of bread. No, but I mean, but you get that that's kind of a faint flavor in that, you know. And yeah, I mean, that's not bad. So I'm gonna since I'd already tied it once, I'm gonna have to tie again. Okay. I think it's right up there with that that black, super black. I'm gonna go a 2.6. Okay. I like it, but I just don't wanna. I mean, it's not gonna, it's not overly flavorful. Right. It's it's got some flavor, and I think those two that I tied are probably the best flavor of the group. Yep, for me. I think for myself, I'm gonna go a 2.7, just a step up from the black. Nice. And I just I just kind of really like that. It's a getting a little closer to like that maltiness that you and I are more kind of drawn to. Yep, you know, and but it's not overpowering in any bit, anyway. And like the the the black lager had that little initial burnt flavor, right? Where this one didn't have it. That's the only thing that honestly separated it, and it's that way minute differences. It's not like leaps and bounds difference. Yeah, and I know you did two that tied, and I didn't want to do that because yeah, you you did every one of your scores is different, you really would have been upset. I know. So you did actually break apart every single one. So you are you are the man. Oh, thank you. I'm gonna have to give you a gold star for today, even though you only got one question right. Well, that's fine. You get the gold star for not doubling up on any score.

Final Rankings And Lager Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Yeah, so I guess you know, looking at the laggers, I think the Pilsners were easier to kind of differentiate. These ones were very now. The two were I think there was two that were above here today. The other ones were very similar, yeah. And I mean, if you did a blind taste test, could you no? If you took those four, yeah. Especially if you didn't, yeah, where you couldn't see what the actual color was, there's no way it'd be like, yeah, okay. It's you know, yeah. So for for myself, I did like the shells, the the Bach dark lager that I thought that was very good. Secondly, I and I'm not gonna lie, I'm surprised. That Japanese style black lager, the uh super black, that was my number two. That was really good. Like I said, the only difference between that was just that slight burnt flavor initially. Yep, other than that, they were both very good. And then after that, I honestly kind of went with the uh Skeldon, the golden lager from Headflyer, just because that one I thought had a little bit more smooth overall total flavor than than some of those other ones had. And uh echo exactly what you said, Mike. I had two that stood out. It was the Supra black, very pleasantly surprised. And because I can't remember us trying a Japanese style black lager previously. So for that, that was very good that we tried one and we it tasted good. And that bach the the Bach dark lager, that was very good too. I mean, and what's different too is those two were the only ones that had different colors, yeah. Yeah, the other four the other ones were just varying degrees of gold. Yes, so maybe it is that coloring that added some more flavoring. Maybe it's all up in our noggins, I don't know, but it seemed like they had the better flavors. Yeah, so they were they were on upper pedestal. The other four, like you said, I really couldn't differentiate in a blind taste test. I might now that I've had them once, I might be able to tell the difference, but they are their color looked the same. The aroma, I mean, there was very, very little difference in them. So and I don't know. I mean, we thought Pilsners were gonna be like that, but they actually had some good flavor with them. So maybe you know, if they want to try that, put a little flavor with these. Yeah, I mean it can't hurt. Yep, exactly. And then you I think you'd stand out a little more. Yeah, and I and there are some that we've had that are like a red lager or these other lagers that do have more flavor. So these ones, like I said, we just we just grabbed them, yeah, you know, and didn't know. And yeah, who would have thought that these were going to be more like what we expected than the Pilsner's worse? I mean, they are above the Shiner Bach. Yes, they're above Shiner Bach, but there's not like Shiner, I mean they didn't have a lot of different flavor, yeah. They just had different labels, exactly, though they all tasted the same. That's it. But these they all got different labels, but they there's not a lot of things. There's not a lot, no, but anyway, again, all of these, if you're if you're not used to if you've never had a lager, you could try them. Any of them, and they're not gonna scare you off. So and you know, then again, that's our whole thing is it's they gotta have flavor, right? You know, the aroma's nice too, but I mean, flavor is really key. And these ones, like I said, those two did stand out in this in this group of six, right? Stand out in a good way, yes, in a good way, very good. None of them are horrible by any means, you know. And yeah, you know, go out there and like we said last week. If you find if you find laggers out there, pick them up. If you can get do a build your own six pack and try different ones, you're gonna find something you're gonna like. And there's just so many different ones that you can find one well, ones with flavor, ones with not so much flavor. So it's just kind of a you know, luck of the draw, so to speak. And we did, I think I'm glad we tried it. Now we have helped our palate understand a little bit more, right? But it wasn't, I don't think it was what we I think we were anticipating a lot better. Yes, it just fell a little bit short. Yep, I agree a hundred percent. Well, hey Jim, thanks for sticking with these ones here. You know, we we gutted it out, we guttered it out. They weren't bad, you know. We we've learned some things, you know. We didn't realize that Japanese style black lagers have potential. We'd be that good. So, yeah, so there

Festival Plans And Listener Meetup

SPEAKER_00 52:34

we go. And ladies and gentlemen, like we mentioned last week, we were two weeks away now, I believe, from the between the bluffs, between the bluffs, the beer and bites fest, I believe they changed the name too. So again, you know, beverages and bites, beverages and bites. Okay, I apologize. There we go. Yeah, and that's gonna be coming up the uh 24th and 25th. Yep. The main festival is the 25th. We will be there. Yep. Run around tasting beers and kind of giving our our thoughts and such. So if you uh stop and you know, see you there, see us, say hi, tell us you listen to the podcast. We'd love to talk to you. Yep, we'll be drinking our free beers there. Yeah, we'll even say, Hey, let's go get a free beer over here. We'll buy. Yeah, there you go. We'll buy two. Yeah, we'll buy two. So there you go. Well, awesome, dude. Thank you so much for again being down here to try these. Hopefully, next week, maybe we'll have some other things with a little more flavor. Hopefully, knock on wood. You never know. Keep our crossed. Exactly. So, ladies, and hopefully next week we can figure out a song. Yeah, you know, something for the theme. Yeah. Lager wasn't real yeah, there was probably a good thing we didn't have a song because it was just too middle of the row. It was pretty much there. You go. Right. So awesome, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for listening. And like we always say, we hope your campfire is always warm. Your beers are always cold. See ya. Bye.

How To Reach The Show

SPEAKER_00 53:54

Thank you for listening to the Northwoods Beer Guy podcast. If you have a question, a comment, or a beer you'd like us to review, please feel free to send us a message at Northwoodsbeerguy at gmail.com. You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. If you're on Untapped, look up Northwoods Beer Guy and send a friend request. Until next week, I hope all your campfires are warm and all your beer is cold.