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Support Systems The Unseen Pillars of Healthcare the story of Dr. kevin kinyanjui

• Dr. Roldan • Season 3 • Episode 3

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In this heartfelt episode, Dr. K shares his inspiring journey from Kenya to San Diego, highlighting the cultural challenges and triumphs along the way. Reflecting on their days in community college, the conversation emphasizes the vital role of mentorship and support systems in overcoming adversity. Dr. K's narrative illustrates the profound impact of mental strength in the medical field and the importance of empathy in patient care.

The episode delves into the demands of medical school and the emotional toll on healthcare providers, discussing the complexities behind patient compliance and the stigma of the 'noncompliant' label in disadvantaged communities. Strategies for managing stress, including meditation and gardening, are explored as tools for maintaining mental wellness in high-stress careers.

As the episode concludes, it celebrates resilience born from failure and invites listeners to embrace mental wellness through initiatives like Oasis Community break rooms and ethical mental health coaching programs. The podcast aims to foster a supportive environment where self-care is a shared journey, offering transformation, inspiration, and a community that values mental health as the cornerstone of a fulfilling life.

Disclaimer: It's essential to note that while I am a therapist, this podcast is not a substitute for therapy. The stories and discussions shared here are meant to inform and inspire but should not replace professional advice or support. If you or someone you know is struggling, please seek help from a professional therapist or contact a helpline.

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Speaker 1:

Hello beautiful souls, and welcome to Oroasis Community Podcast. I am Dr Roldan, your host. I am a doctor in clinical psychology, a BIPOC therapist professor and a mindful somatic coach. While I am a therapist, remember I'm not your therapist. This podcast is not a substitute for professional mental health care, but we have resources in our website and Instagram to support you in that search.

Speaker 1:

Join us for a cozy, felt conversation about mental health, personal growth and mindfulness. We explore tools to care for your mind, your body and your soul. Check the footnotes for disclaimer, trigger warnings and additional resources for each one of the episodes. So grab your favorite cup of tea, coffee or hot chocolate, wrap yourself in a warm blanket and find a coffee spot here with us to be kind to be brave, loud, loud and strong in your search of mental health wellness. Welcome to your oasis. Hello everybody and welcome back once more with your hot beverage or anything that suits your soul, and today I have a guest that I love with all my heart. We go back back 14 years. We were reminiscing in our days of like community college to now professionals. So for no further ado, we have Dr K.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, like I said, you know, it's been a long time. We were just talking about that been a long time. We were just talking about that, um, and uh, you know it's always. You know, you know it's always such a pleasure and happiness seeing other people that. You know, I grew up. We had a dream. You know what we met. We had a dream in san diego state, um, and now we're leaving it. You know, that's always so amazing seeing that and thanks so much for you know inviting me to a wonderful podcast, by the way.

Speaker 1:

Thank you. So why don't you tell our audience what was your dream?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So you know, my dream was look, you know, it starts way back, right. So you know, I was born in Kenya and migrated, you know, to San Diego and at that time, you know, to be honest, you know, I didn't know much, I couldn't speak English that great, I hadn't. You know, I didn't finish school at that time, right, because I was just starting high school back in Kenya. So, you know, moving here, my first goal was obviously to have an education. You know, I don't know. You know most people know, when you have a, you know, an immigrant parent, you know they jam education, education, education is the way, right. So that was my first goal. Then my first, you know, goal dream and my second one was, you know, growing up in City Heights. That's where I grew up. Growing up in City Heights, we used to go to Maestra, you know, la Maestra, la Maestra, la Maestra. Wow, it's amazing that you remember. It's been a long time.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and just to reference for our audience, we are in California, in one of the most expensive cities called San Diego, california, in La Maestra. Funny, I work in La Maestra for the human trafficking unit. Oh what, yeah, la Maestra funny.

Speaker 2:

I work in.

Speaker 1:

La Maestra for the human trafficking unit.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that's so cool.

Speaker 1:

So La Maestra is like social services, a low cost or free for the population, and City Heights is the equivalent of you know is where all our mixed cultures are and the economical background of there is a low income to middle, lower class. Um, that's why you have pretty much everybody I used to live when I immigrate to here. Um, the same as kevin, oh, dr k I.

Speaker 2:

I think dr k dr olden, then I'll call you that yeah.

Speaker 1:

I know, but I like the ring of it. Drk, yeah, no, but like the saying when I immigrate, I immigrate not speaking English. I did have a degree when I came here, but it was worth nothing because I was a teacher back home. So coming here is not. Oh no, you're not the same and the same as Kevin. I live in City Heights University for a while.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, university yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, because you know that's where we go, because that's the place that everybody speaks your language for the most part.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I call it the melting pot. You know, and you know the diverse community. But also you know poor health outcomes. You know a lot of. You know I remember we used to go play basketball in a park over there I forgot what it's called and that's where all the games were Right. So I learned a lot of my English, like playing basketball, like that and just meeting other people. But you know, at that time I mean seeing that. You know, because I remember my mom asking me hey, let's go to La Maestra. You know, because I have a doctor's appointment right, because I have a doctor's appointment right and I'll go. And you know other women there they're going down the list of all the doctors and they're trying to see who has a name, like mine, who has an African name, because they will understand me, I mean, that's the.

Speaker 2:

You know, a lot of people you know believe that. So that seeing that and seeing how it was so tough to access quality care when I was there instilled the dream of becoming a physician. So, yeah, long, that's a long answer, but those are my dreams, you know. Those are my dream, you know.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and for people, just for high schoolers or parents that are out there. You know resources exist. It's just a question to be asked, right? I met Kevin Dr K in the Bridge Program. Unfortunately they don't have it anymore at San Diego State, but it was a program that bridged colleges to four year universities and the beauty of that is, like you know, you can go to a UC, an IB school or to a state school. We were like little kids, young adults, learning like, oh, this is what the United States is all about, because they don't tell you and also they don't tell you how expensive the career is going to be. For a lot of us we can get scholarships, for some other we don't. But what was your experience going from the community college for the four years degree, then to your medical school and then your residency specialization?

Speaker 2:

I specialize in adult medicine in the hospital, so they call it a hospitalist. That's what I do. Now it's internal medicine.

Speaker 2:

Internal medicine, yeah, yeah yeah, that transition, you're right, bridges, I'll never forget Maureen and I always thank Maureen, or Mama, the condolences about. You know, Dr Paolini, you know huge, huge mentor that I had and just a motivator, right, you know you go to a community college where you know it's a small community and everybody's together. You can, you know you see friends, oh yeah, you know, see people that you, you know you took classes together. It's a small, it's a small to transition to.

Speaker 2:

I went to UCSD, uc San Diego, and that's probably, you know, it's big, big, big school, right. So you know you don't have that togetherness as much the. You know, for me, I was pre-med, I was doing, you know, obviously pre-med and unfortunately, a lot of people who are fortunate or unfortunately people who are doing pre-med, they're all like us type A's. You know we are, we are determined to get something and we're going to go get it. You see that in classes, you see that just going around and stuff. I think that's when I started to realize subconsciously about mental wellness and mental health, because unfortunately, you know, the pressure of doing great in school, like you know, ucsd compared to Grossman College, is immense. Right, you have to get this type of gpa for you to get into medical school.

Speaker 2:

So it's always about that boom, boom. You know doing that and and you forget about yourself, you forget about your mental. You know wellness, right and um, and you know what I've realized is I mean I'm not a specialist like you. You know, dr ro, dr Roldan is I'm just. You know it's what I've learned myself right, and what I think is, the more you get a, you take a hit from your mental wellness that builds up and eventually, you know, you get into other, you know realm of other mental issues depression, anxiety, you know whatever, whatever it is Right. So I mean that transition was rough to ask you a question. But you know, having mentors like we just mentioned and people that can push you and who have gone through that, you know, kind of helped a lot.

Speaker 1:

Right, right, what kind of struggles do you saw in yourself or in others around you? Going from UCSD to medical school, then to your residency, as many people doesn't know, universities depending. So state schools are a little more. They have, all of them have resources, but state schools are normally like all of us go there, you know, and more specialized ones, like for science or for medical school, like high, demanding careers, you go to UC, so IVs, for example.

Speaker 1:

When I was in my undergrad, I went to San Diego State, to be honest, because I was in my undergrad. I went to Sunday West State, to be honest, because I was terrified to go anywhere else, because I didn't know and all my mentors were there. As Kevin was saying, mentorship is important because you need a parent outside of your house. Unfortunately, we lost one of our mentors recently. We sent condolences in our love to maureen, which we call it, or mama bear, in in there, because she she always will bring cookies and food to all of us, home cook, because she knew a lot of us will not have food or that kind of food, and she will explain this is american food and we're like, yeah, um, also, uh, we have uh, which I call it my parents, the Martins, dr Martin, she's still my mentor until this day.

Speaker 1:

I still talk to her and you know, it's important to have powerhouse people in your corner, but most important, all of them they were like you need to talk to somebody, you need to have a group, you need to have a support system. And when you pick a school and this goes to all students out there that when you pick a school, don't pick it because of the name, pick it because of the career, pick it because the support system. When I was in my master's I got into Ivy schools but I was like I don't think I can live seven years here. And then the culture too. You know it's very important that you chase your dream, but by chasing you don't forget who you are and where you come from and what kind of support system you need. We are minorities, right?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And with that comes different challenges for mental health. We don't have as much resources in mental health as um our counterparts may have. Also, in our families we're not allowed like we will go to auntie or we will go to the pastor or we will go to even the, the barbershop or the stylist before we go with a therapist. So what has been your experience in your career? One, how much stress do you have or, if you will, challenges that we have for being minorities? Also, what benefits have you have the community? That because I remember when I was in my narrow rotation there was another person that was Latino and we were like 50 people and there were only two of us.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And yeah it was only two of us we were the little oddballs and he was like I see you, I see you too. And we became the best friends ever for that same reason, because we were the only ones. So yes, can you talk to me a little bit about, and then I will touch about the stats, uh, about medical schools and um doctors in mental health yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So the challenges that I've had, um, unfortunately, you know, every time you go in a higher you know graduate school, you have less. You know less diversity, less minorities.

Speaker 2:

You know it's so important for me. Like I said, you know, with time I started becoming more aware like mental awareness for myself, more aware like mental awareness for myself, and that was one of those things that you know it's so important to having someone you know, a minority, you know going through what you're going through right, because that's, you know it kind of. You know there's there's inert, I guess, connection that they will understand right. So like, for example, when I was in medical school, you know, the first year it was rough. You know they said that it's basically like a fire hose down your throat, you know, with information, right, and it got to a point where, you know, the pressure was so, so, so much that you know I went into, like I call it like a mental insult, meaning like something. You know it just shook you and made you different.

Speaker 2:

So what I did was I was just so tired, mentally exhausted, so I just went into. You know, some people say cocoon. You know I just went quiet, I just became quiet because I couldn't do it. But everybody saw me, all my other friends saw me, whatever, and they thought, hey, you know, we all tired, I don't know what's, you know whatever, but my friends were actually twins. They're pretty. Dr Jeremy Hochstrom and Jermaine Hochstrom. Dr Jeremy Honkstrom and Jermaine.

Speaker 2:

Honkstrom Shout out to them. Yeah, I know it came to me and said hey, man, what's up, what's going on? Bro, that's powerful, just asking that. So that's when I learned that you always got to ask. Even people who look OK or not just ask that how are they doing whatever? So that was tough. I mean being by yourself, you know how are they doing whatever. So that was tough. I mean that. You know being by yourself, having less right. What was great was when I went to the community now, now practicing right. You see a lot of. You see a lot of. You know disadvantaged communities. That's what I see. You know some patients. You know disadvantaged communities. That's what I see. You know some patients. And you know one thing we always hear in our world is that patient is not compliant, meaning patient is not taking the medications.

Speaker 1:

And they were suggested to. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but you see, I don't like that term, you know I know, and you know what is the funny thing in psychology.

Speaker 1:

Or, like you know, we were very hand to hand with psychiatrists. We cannot. In some states psychologists can prescribe, but in others we can't.

Speaker 2:

In.

Speaker 1:

California. We cannot, but I was. So you know there is chronic illness, there is a illness and there is terminal. Terminal not always means that you're gonna be dead, it just means it progresses. There's no cure, um, but when I have clients, I I'm very, very strict about talking to them about. This is how, for example, when you have the flu, right, you take your little homemade remedies and try right for the, because it's really expensive to go to the doctor. Then when it doesn't go away, it goes through your lungs, or you know it's not going away, or you have a sinus infection. You need medication. You can pray all you want, you can do all the home medication that you want, that you're just making more damage for the prolong of the illness to the point that the illness is not going to go away. So it's the same with mental health. If you first stress, like you say, we got shot with so much everything culture shock, um, educational shock and you're like you want me to do what? I only have eight hours in the day like how am I?

Speaker 1:

gonna do that. It's not glamorous. People always think, oh, it's like Grey's Anatomy. No, it's not. You don't even have energy to think about romance or anything. Yeah, you're just crawling out of the event.

Speaker 1:

But if you are so depleted physically, emotionally and mentally and then you're like I can have something that will help me, like a supplement, like in this case, it will be. When I say suggested for patients, we have to say suggested, because if we say no, you have to, then don't do. It also is that, unfortunately, you cannot force people to take care of themselves, right? Um, there's a special case, that's forensics, but there's a story for a different chapter. But yeah, in our cases it's like the frustration that we want to help. We're not just shoving pills because a lot of people say you work with pharma. I was like no, we don't. Like we really want you to get better, but in our communities we don't believe in medication. But in our communities we don't believe in medication.

Speaker 1:

Medication is part of the devil or part of, like the white person, or they are trying to drug us, et cetera, et cetera. There is some cultural and systematic oppression. That, yes, it is true. That is history. We cannot deny that. We always have been the guinea pigs of everything, like in my country, in Guatemala. Thanks to us, you guys have the vaccines and medication for syphilis, how my country still hasn't, due to that, you know, because they experiment with that, um, in anybody out there. Uh, read the Tuskegee. I probably it wrong, but I want to put it in the notes the Tuskegee experiments.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

That's actually cool. Where I went to med school was actually maybe a mile away from Tuskegee, you know. So Tuskegee is a college, it is HBCU and it's in Alabama. Yeah, I went there and I saw it. The Tuskegee Syphil, I saw that the Tuskegee syphilis trial or the Tuskegee syphilis study yeah, yeah yeah, very true what you're saying, very true.

Speaker 1:

So how do you manage one when you have patients that come like I'm not gonna take that one and you're like you know, you're going from pre-diabetic to now fully diabetic, kind of thing, right the same. Like you're going from high stress, anxiety to now you have full blown depression, panic attacks, and we're not going to deny PTSD. A lot of medical students, they have PTSD and we don't treat them. They have ptsd and and we don't treat them. Uh, they have a lot of grief, uh, that you know, having that kind of stress, not only in the school but in the daily, depending how you do, yeah, um, I don't think people know also how difficult it is for doctors to be fighting every single day with insurance.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, that's tough. Yeah, yeah, you know, insurance, social, you know. But yeah, it's very tough, you know, and that's good that we went back to that because it's important, you know, for me. You know, at first we all have biases, right? I?

Speaker 2:

forgot what the term is, the inside bias. But you don't know you have it, but you do have it right. So whenever a patient comes in, you know we say, hey, you gotta take this. And they say, no, I don't want to take that, right. We're so, yeah, yeah, or you know. Or you say, hey, take this medication, you send it to that pharmacy. Then they come back to see you, or sicker, you're like, hey, did you do it? It's like no, I didn't want to go pick it up, or whatever.

Speaker 2:

And you know, of course, we were like, oh my gosh, you know I'm going to help you. You know, throughout my whole journey, actually, it gave me the ability to understand and always to know why, right, why. A few weeks ago, well, a few months ago, I had a young guy came in because he had a bone infection Right it's on his feet and, and you know, came in because he had a bone infection right it's on his feet. And you know, the thing is, that was interesting about that is that you know he didn't have one leg right, so he only had one foot right. So we do, you know, a study, a trial, like MRIs imaging and we see that the bone is infected, Right.

Speaker 2:

So the option is, you know, amputation, Right, Very sick, very sick, very sick, very, very sick patient. So you know the doctors goes and say, hey, you know you need amputation or you know infection is going to go through, you know, in you and you might die, Right, and he was like no, I don't want to do that, Right.

Speaker 1:

And and I was like OK, fine. So for me I'm like OK, well, if you don't want to do it that's your choice, right.

Speaker 2:

But I went back and I want to understand why. Why is that, right? Um, so sat down, I spoke to him, called his mom because he wanted his mom to be involved. Um, you know, we talked and the understanding was he was scared to be on a you because we're going to take out the whole leg, right. But that was not the case. You know, he was not going to take out the whole leg, he was only going to be, you know, taking out a toe, right. So you know, and sitting down and trying to understand that, hey, it's just a toe, it's not the whole leg. Oh, so I can wear my shoes. Yeah, you can wear your shoes, okay, well, fine, then I don't want to do that, right, such a small thing I did Small small thing, but then it made a huge impact to them and the mom I said, oh my gosh, no doctor's help. Well, you know, know, people are different. Exaggerate, don't get me wrong.

Speaker 1:

They say hey, no, doctors ever sat down and listened to me.

Speaker 2:

You know the way you did is is, uh, you know, you sat down and listened to everything I had to say and you know and helping me understand it right, I didn't even sit there too long, but that's how I put myself in this people's shoes. I remember my mom. Right, my mom would say, hey, go take this antibiotic. She'd be like, no, I'm not taking antibiotics, I don't know what that medication is.

Speaker 2:

It's going to make me get cancer or lose hair, whatever right. So let me go back to my you know, or you know my lemon, honey and and tea, yeah, and ginger yeah, right, which I still do, that, by the way, and it actually works you know right.

Speaker 1:

But then that's what I always tell my patients too, or clients. I say look, there's preventable, there is self-suiting and there is like when we need the big guns which is like the medications, right, uh.

Speaker 1:

And what I love about your story is the complaint that we all have, uh, in mental health, we have the same thing, right, that we are overflow with patients, that we cannot spend the 15 minutes extra. Right, and that's what a lot of us. We move to private practices because, like, the grinding is not healthy for the clinician nor the patient, because the same I have a chronic illness like POTS, where all my POTS is there, shout out to them. But it's the same trying to explain to your doctor that we're like wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, like don't go, like they literally them. But it's the same trying to explain to your doctor that we're like wait, wait, wait, wait, like don't go, like they literally told me it's like, oh, we only have 15 minutes to see you and it's like, okay, and as a clinician I get it, but as a patient I don't right. And then I have, like you, other doctors, friends, and they always say you know the frustration that we have because we know, like you say, if I would have spent another five minutes, I could dig a little more and explain a little more and make a life change, right, but I don't have those five minutes because somebody else is here is coding, or X, y and Z. So the stress that you guys have, let's now move to.

Speaker 1:

We know the system needs a lot of tuning. Right, the system needs a lot, a lot of tuning, and we're not throwing rocks at the system. What we're trying to bring is awareness for both sides. Right, we understand that in the past, the medical has not been the friend of minorities, but also we understand that minorities need to be more in the field. That way you can have doctors that look like you, that talk like you and they understand your environment. But one thing to the public that I want them to understand is we're losing a lot of people that wants to be in medical.

Speaker 1:

Also, they have and I will put all the stats in the links below, but they have for medical students having suicidal thoughts. So that means out of your 10 students, you have at least 0.4%. That's a lot. You have at least 0.4%. That's a lot. That is like almost three of them having just those thoughts. For the same rate, what kind of resources do you experience going through your medical school and now to get resources for mental health? Because I know, for example, for psychologists and therapists, we have to go through therapy as part of licensure, as part of continuing education, etc. So we're kind of mandated to go, even if you don't want to. And it's true, doctors, we are the worst Therapists. We're the worst clients too, because you're like no, I can't handle it myself. But for doctors and for medical students, what kind of resources and setbacks you guys have in order to search mental health.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good question. So in medical school we did have a counselor that we go and talk to. They're very nice. I mean, they were trying to help with education Also. They had that aspect of it. I'm pretty sure there was. You know, it's one of those things that you know a lot of people don't pursue it. I didn't in medical school because I was not mentally aware of myself at that time.

Speaker 2:

So I'm pretty sure, probably they have, you know. You know therapists, psychologists, whoever right, they can listen to you. I started noticing it more in residency because that's when I started to become more aware and they do have. They do offer like, hey, you can call, you know you can call someone, you know if you're feeling X, y, z, so they have those. But I think that still has more work to go because we still have this stigma that you know, if you were requesting help because of how you feel you seem weak, especially in our careers, you know you cannot. Unfortunately you cannot be weak, right, right, because people will look at you different, like, okay, well, I think you need time off, then, you know, until you become stronger, then you can come back, right, right, so I think that we need more awareness. You know that it's okay to pursue, you know, mental therapy. I call it right. So, yeah, because you know um mental therapy.

Speaker 2:

I got caught right, so um yeah because, you know, I always say this, but this is my opinion. Okay, yes, of course this is my opinion. I say, uh, you know, there's only there's two types of people. Uh, this is my opinion, this is what I say. There's two type of people that don't need mental therapy. Right, those are liars or dead people. That's all I say. Because, uh, everybody needs it.

Speaker 1:

I think yeah yes, in every shape or form. I say uh, you know, if, because your career, or x, y and z, you cannot go see a therapist or a professional, there is always life coaches that will help you to get out of your, your drought. There is mentors, there is support groups. There is an infinity thing, but of course we don't search for it until we need it. But unfortunately, by the time that we need it, we don't have the energy to search for it exactly.

Speaker 1:

Exactly so. If you are listening, always ask the strongest people in your life how are you doing? But really ask them, because the strongest people, as Kevin said, we are not allowed to show any weakness. Right, and it's not a weakness, but that's how the culture has perpetrated searching for help, because you never say, oh, I cut my finger, let me go put stitches on it. Oh, you're so weak, no, right, it's the same.

Speaker 1:

I got an emotional injury because I lost my pet, I lost my father, I lost somebody in my life, or I have lost myself in this process, which is the hardest one, right, when you lost yourself, what kind of resources do you use now, or even back then, to keep yourself mentally fit? Because, as everything, you have to be mentally fit. What do I mean with that? I, as a therapist, I do meditation every day, I go for mindful walks. I make sure that if I'm overbooked or something, I do meditation every day, I go for mindful walks. I make sure that if I'm overbooked or something, I take days off, like I'm very strict about my fitness mentally, right, because they need me fit in order to perform. So what do you do? Because, obviously, we take care of our body, a lot of us. We take care of our body by exercising X, y and Z eating well. So what do you do for your mental fitness?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's actually what I was saying. I was about to say that. You know, just like we go to the gym to take care of body so we can be strong, I think we also need that for our brain as well. Right? So what I do is now, you know there's a lot of resources on YouTube. I go listen to them. I like to listen to different people's motivations and journeys. Reading books, you know, all that kind of you know makes me understand a different side of it. I like, you know, hanging out. You know, hanging out at my place. I have a little dog, I think, just you know, having a pet. I used to be anti-pet, by the way, and now, if you see, just like what you were saying, like you see my, my Instagram is just pet, pet, pet you become my pet parent.

Speaker 2:

I know which is you know it's amazing, right, I moved down here. I'm in pet parent. I know which is you know it's amazing, right, I moved down here. I'm in Florida, vero Beach. It's close to the beach, so I like to go to the beach. That was one part of my awareness that I learned because I used to be the person that said man, I cannot go to the beach alone. I'm going to be seen as sad or lonely, or I can't go and have dinner alone. I can't go to watch a movie alone.

Speaker 1:

That's what I was Right, right, right.

Speaker 2:

You know I had a therapist. I used to talk to a therapist and everything, and you know that was the one thing we worked on. So now I mean I just go there, you know, I just enjoy it. You know I enjoy it. Um, and calling family, I believe that's very important, you know, because, uh, they, they know that you're on the side before you became this big person, right, they know you as who you started, as right. So call them. We talked to that. Talk to my mom, you know, um, she's still in san diego. Um, and I talk to my friends. So, yeah, all that, I do a lot of planning. I'm one of those. I'm gonna have a green tongue. I do a lot of uh. I think, uh, gardening and stuff like that it gives me a little bit of uh, you know peace, so I like do that, like watching something grow and stuff like that.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, so what they say have unconditional love, which is your pet. Have somebody to take care in nature, which is your pet plants, and then have encounters with nature alone, which is your walks in the beach. And it must be a San Diego thing too, because I have to go to the beach. And it must be a San Diego thing too, because I have to go to the beach at least three times a week, like when I'm feeling stressed, I'm like I'm going, I'm just gonna get lost for an hour in the in the beach, or just sit on it and uh, for people out there, just being close to water, it kind, it generates a little more endorphins and serotonin than you. Having at least 15 minutes in the sun also levels your serotonin levels in bright colors, believe it or not. That's why you see bright colors can help increase your dopamine, which increase your energy, which increase your mood. So if you think about I call mental health like a jenga or blocks, you put blocks that built or you take, blow blocks out that they move right, for example. I don't believe in the. I know we need it, but it's not feasible. When we were students. We eat in the run. We will eat like walking and studying, and that is not healthy. Like food has meant to nourish your mind and your body. And I love what you say about talking to family for all our audience. That for some reason you have strained family members or you don't talk to your birth family, that's okay. Okay too, we create our family wherever we go. Like, if you say our friends, we always have the one that, like our birth family, that will stay with us, of course, but that's not the case of everybody, unfortunately. But we want to just offer everybody out there that family is the one that we make. Like, for example, we have lost kind of like cousins and parents and adoptive friends that they become more brothers and sisters because proximity right. But I love even though he brushed it a little bit like Dr Kevin went to therapy. Do you hear that future doctors? He went to therapy and because of I'm not saying just because of that, but because of that he's kind of like he get like a mental kind of coach to, oh, let's go and be our best type A ever. That is for all the CrossFitters out there.

Speaker 1:

When you see one, you're like, how do you guys do that? Like how, it's because they have somebody that has them to train, right? So I'm glad that you got that in your education and in your life. And the pet parent, I mean, who doesn't love a pet? And it can be anything. Right, it doesn't have to be a dog, it doesn't have to be a cat. They have horses, they ponies, they have chickens and, why not?

Speaker 1:

A college student is listening to you and it feels overwhelming like I want to go to medical school and, oh, I want to become a doctor. You know tv, right? Uh, everybody thinks that going to school for medical school it's like race anatomy or chicago med or any of those. Right, depending your generation, that's the one that you see. Um, I'm a firm believer to, yes, please go to tech, to the online platforms, but always be mindful and careful to who you listen to.

Speaker 1:

Always try I always say try to listen a few different ones, especially if they contradict each other, because then in between a and b, you have the answer right. Uh, because it's very important to know different uh points of views. Like you know, like I say, I learned in the past. I was always like no, everybody needs therapy, right, and I understand that because, uh, in the culture right now, I understand, no, some people need first the baby step. That is maybe a coach or uh going to their church or going the baby step right. So I pride myself to go and train people in those areas, because not everybody's trained for, for mental awareness and mental fitness, right, um, but we all can collaborate together to do it. So what is your point, as you will say to that little baby medical student or how do you think like one-on-one survival kit for school and residency? Mostly, if you are listening.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh, the biggest thing I learned is that don't be scared of failure. You know and do not. And if you do, do not use failure as a currency to determine your future, because it's not right. That's one of the things I had to learn, you know probably you don't know this when I was, actually when I was in UCSD. I kind of you did mention it in the beginning. You have really, really good points. I love it. I love it. Actually, that's why I listen to your podcast all the time. This is good, you know.

Speaker 2:

So you know, when I was in UCSDd, I kind of forgot who. I was, right, and I thought I was, you know, the smartest kid, right? I mean, I came from kenya. I went to get my ged because I couldn't. I didn't go to high school, I went to grossman college. I was a math tutor. I did all this. Now I'm in UCSD, I'm doing human biology. You know all this stuff, right? I forgot. So I went and I took the MCAT. So MCAT is the, you know, first exam to get into medical school, right? So I took the MCAT and I failed it. I failed it. The thing is I had told my friends before that I was going to go to med school, no matter what.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Right. So when I failed and I did not even get an interview to get into medical school, I went to high school Right. And because that failure determined who I was at that time, so I am not fit to be out there. Because I failed, right I went to hiding and I was tough, really, really tough moment. So I had to dig myself out of that right.

Speaker 2:

So the first thing I tell those people who want to do it you know medical school, any, any, any occupation, any professional, whatever you want to do failure, do not be scared of it. You know medical school, any, any, any occupation, any professional, whatever you want to do failure, do not be scared of them. You know those are the ones. You know they actually push you, catapult you forward, because now you fail, now you know that's possible, that you're human. Now let's keep on going Right. That's one. The second thing is you know you also mentioned just because you have a mentor, those are not the mentors that you're going to have for the rest of your life. Sometimes that's not the case. Remember, mentors are like um, uh, stepping stone, I see yeah right.

Speaker 2:

The only difference is they're like giants. You know, like isaac newton said, know I can see further because I stood on the shoulders of giants.

Speaker 2:

Those stepping stones are giants, yes, and you just jump. You know each one of them. I have a lot of mentors and we keep, as we go, move forward because I find someone new who can lead me and guide me through that process. When I'm done with the process, find somebody new and go on. So having mentors is very important and, just like what you just mentioned, you know we all look for a personal trainer, but I will add a personal physical trainer and that's fine, because that's accepted right.

Speaker 2:

Right, but we also need a personal mental trainer. You know, and that's what the therapies are. You know. I think that's's very, very important because it's these things that we know all of ourselves. Like you know, you can go lift dumbbells and gain, but these other exercises to build other muscles, right, you know? Hey, you know what, if I listen to music, I feel soothing, I'm fine. Well, that's just the bicep, right are the muscles in your brain. You know, in your brain that needs training and that's why you need a personal mental trainer. Um, so, I have those, and you know, and, like I said, I'm becoming more aware and I think I believe nobody becomes fully aware Like, oh, I've learned everything, now I am good. No, it's evolving, right, right, and you keep on learning more and more and more. So, yeah, so that's what I do.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I love that. And just to you know, and to everybody listening, I'm a firm believer that failure just is an indicator of why you have to try again. Meaning the same right. So for medical school is the MCAT, for law school is the LSAT and for general, everything else is the. Oh, I even forgot the name of it. What is it? I repeat it three times. I know, hold on G-CAT. No, I forgot what is it. I repeat it three times probably.

Speaker 2:

I put it in the back. I know hold on.

Speaker 1:

Um, no, I forgot. I, if you know, put it in the comments because I totally my brain went blank, probably because it was so traumatic. I repeated three times and I know it was like but instead of I didn't went in hiding, I went in like what do I? Why I'm failing this test that you know? I know my IQ is pretty high. So I was like what is wrong with me? And then we discovered there was nothing wrong with me. The test is a little biased, as we know, all this kind of tests are not created mostly for our community, so there is questions that we question even more than we shouldn't. And then it only took one person. It always takes one person to borrow belief. For you, what?

Speaker 2:

do I mean?

Speaker 1:

I was like I'm done, this is as far as I can go, because you know, three times is too many times. And then one of the mentors was like no, no, let's sit down. There is other schools or other programs that you can apply, that they necessarily need this test. And I was like they are not going to want me. Or they were like, oh, they want the test just to be taken, but not really. And I did that. And then you know, when you took the belief that you're a failure, I have this crazy belief in, like you know, just do it. And the worst thing is, I know, right. So I applied to all the IB schools, I applied to a lot of schools and I put my story and I put this in X, y and Z and I was like I'm not going to get in, it's okay, I just want to try it.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

Then I got in in seven schools, wow, and I was like, ah. And then it was the choice where do I go right? What I'm saying is what you consider failure sometimes is just the break of the next step, that you're goingdivergent, or you have invisible disabilities, or you are a minority. There's other ways to do things, because you know one fits done all right. Yes, you look cute in the same outfit, but there is other outfits that you can try and if you take anything out of this conversation, it will be one, of course.

Speaker 1:

Follow your dreams that they do come true, but they don't come easy yeah uh, there's gonna be a lot of sacrifices that you're going to do, but you don't have to sacrifice your mental wellness and your physical wellness. If you sacrifice that, there is no end, right? Right, because we become people. Places are giving little pieces of ourselves, and if you get pieces of yourself, then you lose yourself, but you can reinvent yourself over and over. So even if you're lost out there, just remember there is help out there, there's support groups and there is going to be all those resources. In the notes also below there is, if people didn't know, there is also support groups globally for medical students that you can go and talk about mental health, mental fitness, and even if you're a physician, there is places that you can go and talk to a therapist. So do you have any last notes for our audience?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know I'm thankful you invited me and talk about this and you know it's very, it's always so nice sharing, you know, our past, because I wish I listened to myself when I was younger, to this person Right, so I could know, wow, you know I got to keep on pushing. Or other people like, oh man, there's somebody who's going through what I'm going through and they did it Right. So that's important. And obviously, like I said, you know, just because you go into therapy does not mean that's the end. Right, we continue building our brain, our mental you know, mental wellness. We continue building. So continue doing what you do Right, whatever it is, you do, continue doing that. And so happy that you were so you know, look at you. And so happy that you were, so you know, look at you, you know, so happy that you know we get to talk about this on your wonderful podcast.

Speaker 2:

OK, I love it, love it, love it.

Speaker 1:

Thank you. And if people want to find you or follow your doggy, if you don't know that your doggy has an Instagram right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Spartacus the doodle. So if you want to know about the little fur baby, he's a cutie. Please go follow him at can I show? Him. Of course you can show him.

Speaker 2:

Yes, they want to meet you.

Speaker 1:

That's Spartacus the doodle so you can go follow him in Instagram. And for you. Where are you? What are you doing?

Speaker 2:

yeah, so I mean, uh, I mean, uh, I'm in the east side of florida, I'm a hospital doctor, internal medicine, um, and uh, that's what I do, that's what that's, that's where my life is right now.

Speaker 1:

And, let's say, somebody felt really impactful connection with you when they listen to you let's say a student or something where they can find you. Oh, if not, you can also put it in the comments and I will be more than happy to connect you with Dr Kevin if you are feeling called to like asking my question because, like you know, like because we're now public figures, we're also kind of mentors of a lot of other ones that they see us up there. It's like, oh, how do you do it? So please feel free to either put it in the comments and I can connect it with Dr K or Dr K, do you have any?

Speaker 2:

uh, yeah, I mean, uh, yeah, I think that would be the best way to reach out, but I mean my emails is uh the way to do it. Um, I think I did share. I'll give you my other email that you know they can always reach out to me and I and I will put it in the comments too, so stay tuned for that.

Speaker 1:

This episode will air in our net style. Thank you so much, dr Kevin. It was my pleasure, as always, talking to you, seeing how great you are and remember, even though you think people is not watching your greatness, there is people watching your greatness, even if you think it's not have a wonderful day. Thank you so much, dr Olden. This is like I just said you know.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much, dr Holden. This is like I just said. You know, this is amazing because this is those tools to help a lot of people. A lot of people need it, you know. So you know, this is awesome that you have this. I love it. I always listen to it, and because there's always somebody with something or you just share something and I'm like, wow, I didn't know that. You see, I add that to my tools, right, so that's really awesome. You're doing great as well. I see you. You know, I see you and I'm always, always, always, always love your messages. You know, because you know you never know what somebody's going through and just saying, hey, how's it going, how are you doing? Like what you just said? It means everything. So I really appreciate you doing that. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

Thank you Well for everybody. I see you, I love you and I hear you. Until next time. As we conclude today's episode, take a moment to reflect, be proud of the journey, for every step that brings you closer to who you truly are. Embrace the kindness towards yourself as you did to each one of our guests, honor the bravery in your actions and celebrate the importance of mental wellness with us. And remember it's an exercise that we practice daily. Continue to grow and flourish, knowing that we are in this training for our mental wellness together.

Speaker 1:

We are so proud to have you as part of our community, so join us on Instagram at Oasis Community Podcast for more inspiring conversations, valuable resources and supported content, including journals, worksheets and content in Spanish. Exciting things are in the horizon. Our Oasis Community break rooms are coming soon to grab tools and take a break for your mental health are coming soon to grab tools and take a break for your mental health. Also, we are featuring our six-month training ethical mental health coaching program designed for new and experienced coaches, as well as holistic and healing professionals. Enroll to create a safe and transformative experience to your clients. Links in the bio. Until next time, take care, stay connected and welcome to our Oasis community.