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The Importance of Mental Health Awareness for Men

• Dr. Roldan • Season 3 • Episode 6

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In this conversation, Sara Roldan and her guest, Boogie, discuss the topic of global mental health and the power of community. Boogie shares his personal journey of struggling with depression and finding support through therapy and community. They also discuss the societal conditioning that often discourages men from seeking help for mental health issues. They emphasize the importance of building trust, providing nonjudgmental support, and recognizing the cumulative stress that can lead to mental health challenges. They also highlight the need for a holistic approach to mental health, including therapy, self-care, and a supportive network.
Takeaways

  • Building a supportive community is crucial for mental health and well-being.
  • Societal conditioning often discourages men from seeking help for mental health issues, leading to feelings of shame and weakness.
  • It is important to approach mental health with curiosity and empathy, rather than labeling it as toxic.
  • Recovery and healing from mental health challenges is a process that requires self-accountability and a combination of modalities.
  • A holistic approach to mental health, including therapy, self-care, and a supportive network, is essential for overall well-being. Mental health is health and should be treated as such

Guess Infor:
IG:@bogeyski
Website : https://iserveinternational.com/index.html 

Disclaimer: It's essential to note that while I am a therapist, this podcast is not a substitute for therapy. The stories and discussions shared here are meant to inform and inspire but should not replace professional advice or support. If you or someone you know is struggling, please seek help from a professional therapist or contact a helpline.
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Speaker 1:

Hello beautiful souls and welcome to Oroasis Community Podcast. I am Dr Roldan, your host. I am a doctor in clinical psychology, a BIPOC therapist professor and a mindful somatic coach. While I am a therapist, remember I'm not your therapist. This podcast is not a substitute for professional mental health care, but we have resources in our website and Instagram to support you in that search. Join us for a cozy, felt conversation about mental health, personal growth and mindfulness. We explore tools to care for your mind, your body and your soul. Check the footnotes for disclaimer, trigger warnings and additional resources for each one of the episodes. So grab your favorite cup of tea, coffee or hot chocolate, wrap yourself in a warm blanket and find a coffee spot here with us to be kind to be brave, loud and strong in your search of mental health wellness.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to your Oasis. I want to introduce you not only a friend, and we collide stars when we were in college, san Diego State. Go Aztecs, if there's any Aztec out there and I want to introduce you a very good friend of mine. I call him Boogie. How are you today?

Speaker 2:

I'm doing well, sarah, great to be on the show and my name is Boogie, as you said. I'm excited to be here and share a little bit with your listeners.

Speaker 1:

Thank you. So why don't you talk to us a little bit about yourself? Today we are going to talk about global mental health and the power of community and if you guys haven't followed, he is a connector. It's that kind of personality and person that can connect you with a perfect match. It's almost like a matchmaker for business and the well-being in business to help others. So can you talk us a little bit about the trajectory of your career, but mostly how being a male and living in a cross-border city like San Diego has shaped who you are and who you help?

Speaker 2:

Okay, yeah, great question. That's a very big question, but I'll try to tackle it as concisely as possible. As I said, my name is Bogie, but my formal name Bogdan Matyshinsky. If you ever want to look me up, I'm the founder of iServe International and what I do is I focus on international opportunities, everything related to project development, advising on scholarships and fellowships, how to help people design award winning essays, how to do self-discovery and exploration, how to look at different career pathways and, as you kindly mentioned, by accident I kind of became this connector.

Speaker 2:

So how did that start? Well, going back, it actually was from one of my worst moments, which that might sound surprising, but after I graduated high school in San Diego, I went off to college to study engineering and at that time I thought okay, life is good, I've got everything under control, I have my perfect little plan, my perfect pathway to success, my career. I'm high on life, so to speak. And after about a year and a half of studying, trying the engineering, doing the practical vocational training for engineering on ships, I realized one I hated it. Two, I didn't want to let my family down because I was the first in my family, first generation. I'm a Polish-Mexican American and it was such a big deal for my family to be the first one to go to college, and I'm also an only child. So I really felt, sadly, this shame that, uh-oh, things are not going well. How do I break it to my parents that I don't like this? And then, third, I realized, okay, I put all my eggs in one basket and I thought this was the way, and in fact I didn't have a backup plan. I kind of was overconfident, thinking that this is it, this is how we're going to solve all my problems, to what happens next in my life, and it's going to go perfectly smooth. And I truly believe still that it's good to be confident, but without having the backup plan. Then my world started kind of caving in. What does that mean? Well, then one of my friends noticed hey, you know what you don't seem yourself, You're not that happy-go-lucky, cheerful, smiling guy. Okay, Then I started noticing symptoms.

Speaker 2:

Everything from I would just have like these little panic attacks I guess you could say, Didn't feel in the mood to go to class, had difficulty concentrating While I'm still trying to ponder life. What the heck do I do next, now that I'm not trying to do this engineering thing? And from there it got worse. I stopped going to class. I didn't want to see anyone, I just really wanted to disappear and be alone. And in that loneliness that was even worse because I had a friend who passed away. And it was just one thing after another, after another. And then I started wondering why am I having difficulty concentrating?

Speaker 2:

So I went to the doctor because I started doing the Google WebMD what's wrong with me? And no exaggeration, everything I was looking up I'm like, oh my gosh, do I have a brain tumor or something? And so I went to the doctor, had all these tests done and the doctor bluntly tells me well, good news, bad news. Good news is you don't have cancer. Everything checks out health-wise Okay.

Speaker 2:

But have you ever thought you might be depressed? And I was literally just in shock, like depressed, what does he mean? It was just so shocking. That word literally wasn't in my vocabulary, in the sense that as a kid never talked about it, as a young adult never talked about it, as a family never talked about it, being also from a multicultural family my Polish side, my Mexican side it just wasn't a conversation. So now that this doctor's telling me I think you're depressed it was just this even more like I would have been almost more understanding if he told me yeah, you have brain cancer, you know, it was almost like I expected that.

Speaker 2:

But the depression, so I think from there that hitting rock bottom, so to speak, and then subsequently actually dropping out of school mid-semester, that was like my world collapsing. So not only did I feel isolated, not only were things going bad, not only did now they diagnose me with something, but then I thought, okay, so now I really don't have a plan, Now I have a big problem. How do I climb out of this problem? And one of the saving graces that I think it's important to touch on is that sense of community, whether that's community of a friend, community of a school, community of parents, community of family.

Speaker 2:

So one of my biggest supporters was a friend who recognized that I wasn't my typical self, and that friend suggested hey, why don't you go talk to the school counselor? At that time I hadn't talked to a counselor before and I was like, what are they going to do? And it was kind of this self-defeating, stubborn, maybe ego attitude like what are they going to do for me that I haven't done for myself already? Right, If I want to get better. I've already gone to the doctor, the medical doctor, and that friend just urged me and said you know what he's helped me. I think he can help you. And I think it was that credibility of my friend, that peer support, reaching out to me and saying look, you basically have a problem, You're not your normal self. Why don't you go talk to him? Why don't you go talk to him?

Speaker 2:

And it was one of the worst and best days that I went to him, because the second I went into his office when he sat down, sat me down and just asked me to start sharing what's going on. Just this huge rush of emotions negativity, positivity came out. I was literally speechless, no joke. For about three to five minutes I didn't say a word and I just started crying and obviously the tissue box came out and I was trying to work through it and finally, once I started getting things off my chest and sharing with him more, he actually listened, which was good, but he took it in a direction that was supportive, empathetic, but also he gave me practical suggestions.

Speaker 2:

Now, being at a young age of only 19, at that time I wasn't that wise. I was wise, but not that wise, where hearing the wisdom from someone who was older, a professional therapist, did help me now seek that assistance and he went out of his way to now contact my support network, which included my parents, which included the friend, and then we made a game plan from there. So now, moving forward from that traumatic experience and I do want to give a quick disclaimer I'm not a mental health therapist, I'm not a licensed counselor, but I share this info with you more to recognize that we need to share these interpersonal stories. I give the disclaimer just for the sake of people know that I'm not that licensed professional, but at the same time I hate the fact that in society we do have to give that disclaimer, because part of what I want to talk about today is each of us, whether you're a licensed clinician or not, have the power, the capability to help one another, to identify that someone's having a problem and to do something, even if it's not even talking to the person or suggesting something, listening or identifying something, and I'll talk about that more down the road in our conversation. But anyways, I shared that traumatic story because it is kind of the foundation that created my rocket ship that now just blast off, so to speak, because that allowed me to basically burn down the house, to build the mansion for lack of better words because I needed to not only discover myself, reinvent myself, but also heal.

Speaker 2:

There was a lot of stuff inside of me that I didn't even know and I won't go into that specifically because that's more personal. But I think every person at some point especially young adults who are transitioning from high school to university level there's a lot going on, especially as a first-generation student. I'll admit there was a lot of pressure and I'm not going to blame anyone except myself. But the number one thing was again that support network, because I really appreciated when my parents said you know what? Whatever has happened has happened, but we support you whatever you choose to do next. And a lot of people don't have that safety net. A lot of people don't have that care in their families. So for any parents who are listening out there, that's probably one of the most important safe things you can say to your students or children before they go off to college, while they're at college, that they have that safety net of support.

Speaker 2:

Because we change our minds, life happens, and I think I was too set on having that perfect path because I did believe in it and it is possible for some, but I think the realities of life it just kind of overwhelmed me. So that's just kind of a little bit about the foundation of how I got into a lot of this, but also, as I mentioned, because I didn't have the options, I didn't necessarily have the best connections. Part of my trajectory upward was now connecting with people, self-healing, recovery, but also making the foundation for my future. So I started literally going to the library almost every other day at that time. That was back in 2007. So we have the smartphones we have now and we're still on dial-up.

Speaker 2:

So I would just go to the library and I would check out books on professional development, psychology, mental health, and I just started reading stories of people who persevered over difficult circumstances, whether they were born into it, whether life threw them a curveball, and I just started really realizing. It was basically the earlier version of what you're doing in this show, which I really appreciate, but I was doing it myself, going to the library and pulling out those stories of other people. And that's my goal today to share anecdotes of what worked for me. It doesn't necessarily mean that everything that worked for me, is going to work for everyone else, but it is important, I think, to listen to people's experiences, because there are a lot of common denominators in our shared experiences.

Speaker 1:

May I ask a few questions Looking in retrospective, as a professional right, like as the therapist. I'm like in the shoes of the therapist now. I'm like in the shoes of the therapist now and I treat a lot of active duty in military first responders and general public and one thing that I see is when males come to my office and you're talking about babies right, 18, 19, 17 ish coming here they come with that shame that you were saying like, wait what? The same sentence that you said is the sentence that I hear in and out daily, that is, I will prefer have cancer, a wound, heart attack or something that you're telling me I'm depressed or I have PTSD or I have anxiety, because that represents weakness In the male gaze, asking for help or just saying to somebody hey, you know I'm struggling, something that is not physical. A lot of them show it in anger or in insulation and I am so grateful that you have a male friend and a male therapist to be your first experience, because you got to see the other person in there, right, the therapists, coaches or peer support. What they offer most than anything is having that template of like the nonjudgmental part of you that wants to be heard that wants to be say I see you, I see your pain, I will hold it for you.

Speaker 1:

Many times I have been in sessions where I sit down and they don't want to talk and they don't have to, and either we talk about comic books that relate to what happened to them or we just sit in silence and I let them cry, I let them get in out, and one of them several times I have felt like that's the first time that I have been allowed to cry in front of somebody and it's a training, right? Like how did your body feel? Can we do some breathing exercise? Like you say, give them tips to not feel ashamed of the. I need to cry, I need to release or I don't understand what is happening to me, to. I see you and I hear you and I'm here to hold space for you, right? So can you talk about that? The whole male gaze in that you are very passionate about and very vocal about, like I see one and I help one, right? So talk to me a little bit about that. Your experience now, looking at retrospective Males, tend to grow up with this expectation of toughness, of like you don't cry, you don't ask for help. Men don't connect with men in that matter.

Speaker 2:

We have seen a shift in our society about that, but when you were 19, that didn't exist having been exposed to so many different cultures, spheres now I've been blessed to travel to over 50 countries and also work on different projects related to this I would see it more as environmental conditioning Kind of like. I don't know if you're familiar with the words priming or conditioning, but there have been many research studies and many psychology experts who have shown, just like with a pet, if we ring the bell before we feed the pet, what is the animal, the pet, going to associate? The bell? The ringing means food's coming right. Or, sadly, if we have negative conditioning, we prime the mind, our psyche, our psychology to expect a bad thing. So I think the same thing, like you've mentioned, whether it's TV, pop culture, whether it's our families, whether it's through sports, whether it's through our environmental factors such as family, whether it's our schools, whether it's our community, I think everyone has a role, whether that's positive or negative influence. I would see it more as be curious. Be curious in the sense, no different. We need to take care of our health, sadly. What are we conditioned?

Speaker 2:

At least, I can only speak for the US. That's where I was born and raised and brought up. In the US it's common you go to a physical, probably every year. Every other year the doctor checks you out and they make you touch your toes, might check your pulse, they do things like that. But only until recently, maybe the last five years, have I heard of or witnessed any type of mental health questions, and even then, in my opinion, it's done in almost such an awkward way that the patient is genuinely and not surprisingly going to feel like this is kind of getting a little weird now how our society conditions people and I'm speaking more for the fact that we're in Southern California, at least the variable that our immediate viewers might be more familiar with. I think that's a start. So obviously that's a big broad stroke, I'm saying, but getting the message out right. Should we force people to think a certain way? I don't believe that, but I think if we educate that, look, these are healthy ways to be, so to speak.

Speaker 2:

If you're exhibiting these particular traits or factors such as anger, loss of emotional control, then yeah, across the board I'll say that's not good. That's not good why we're not attacking the person. We're not saying you, john, or you, alex, are bad. We're saying hey, alex, when you screamed at this person today, that was not okay, because I'm taking the action and I'm describing specifically why that action was not okay and how that negatively not only affected them, but affected the people and their environment, and how it can affect their personal and professional life. I think by peeling away the onion like that, you're getting to the first layer, but then you have to go deeper. Now it also depends what level are we encountering that person in.

Speaker 2:

So just for our viewers to know and clarify a little bit now, I do sound like I'm trying to be a psychologist. Again, I'm not, but I have worked on a lot of peer support teams. I've been treating psychiatrists and clinicians. I've also worked interned for the American Red Cross Service to Armed Forces branch where I worked with military members and their families. So I'm bringing in some of that experience, but also keeping identities confidential. But, for example, I've had people who have literally encountered me, just yelling at me, screaming at me, cussing at me. I've had people literally throw things at me and I knew it wasn't personal, it was just the moment of time I was coming in to their space, right.

Speaker 2:

And when people are vulnerable, when people are emotional, when people are not in the best state of mind, it's not to give them a free pass to do whatever they want. They still need to be held accountable and boundaries need to be there. But at the same time, we have to treat it as this person may have actually lost a little bit of control because the mind is so powerful. It can make us do and think and say such strange, random things that they've even proven in studies. People who go through a traumatic incident, triggering situation, or might be on certain medications or under the influence of substances, they basically black out or don't recall after. And I've even experienced it myself where you get like a tunnel vision and you go through this traumatic incident and you're almost like wait, what happened? We're trying to change the habits. Now we can dive deeper, but we have to build trust. We have to build trust and slowly explore okay, what are the root causes of this problem? So now, taking an even deeper dive, how do we build trust? Right, that's going to vary from situation to situation.

Speaker 2:

For me, when I saw that therapist, the only reason really I trusted the guy because my friend vouched for him right, and one of the successes I've personally had is by being a person of my word within my communities. I think that's built my personal credibility that I don't even have to solicit per se or say, hey, call me. I get multiple calls or messages a day, not a week a day, for support, even when I'm off my normal work or different activities. I'm working on why? Because, one, I respect people, no matter where I encounter them, at what level, whether they're going through a situation, whether they're recovering, whether we've now moved on and we keep in touch.

Speaker 2:

But also, at the same time, they have to have trust, never disclosing confidentiality, never disclosing or breaking confidentiality, making sure to build that trust with them and figure out well, maybe I'm not even the right person to encounter them in that moment, because not every therapist is right for every person. It doesn't mean that therapist is not good, it doesn't mean that person is not good, but in a way it's almost like dating. You have that click. I've had the same thing happen where I've seen therapists. I went for a session and I just didn't feel comfortable, so I went to don't click, it's nothing personal.

Speaker 1:

It's just we don't click or we are not ready for that specific modality and the same. I have been caught head put upside down, and all that when I was working in, like you know, the same, in mental hospitals and in lockdown facilities. And I always say it's not personal, it's not I just maybe their, they're a presentation of something that they. My perfect example is like when you have a terrified little puppy they're going to bite you, no matter how tender they are, no matter how loving they are. You are meeting them when they're in the most terrifying moment of their lives. When they cause, they do things like this. It's not at you, but yes, there is boundaries, there's responsibilities that keep society at bay.

Speaker 2:

I just wanted to add. One more thing, too, is for any listeners out there who might be in the thought that they might need help or want help At the end of the day, you have to want it and you have to try. There is a lot of self-accountability A lot of people don't like to hear, and when you are in that vulnerable state you don't want to admit it. It happens a lot more than we think. I'm guilty of it as well. I didn't think anything was wrong with me Then. I kind of suspected something was going on, and it doesn't mean I'm a bad person. I suspected something was going on, and it doesn't mean I'm a bad person. It was just something that I like to say.

Speaker 2:

It's the cumulative stress that builds up that. It doesn't necessarily have to be one triggering event, right? A lot of people like to think the common buzzword now is PTSD post-traumatic stress disorder. Well, everyone experiences different types of stress. Some of us might even experience really bad things. Someone could lose their job, end up in the hospital, have a severe car crash, they could go bankrupt, they could have a family member die and they could be fine for a year, two years, and then all of a sudden something as small as they forget something at the grocery store and now they blow up on the cash register clerk. Now, was it necessarily that cash register clerk that made them stressed out? No, it was probably those 10 different things that just happened to them over the last year and a half, that that was finally what made the pot boil over.

Speaker 2:

And I say that because I think too often we're quick to point well, this, well this. That's the problem. It's a process. I think anyone who says rehabilitation, recovery, getting better, is easy is frankly giving bad advice and is a liar. I know that's strong to say. But one, they've either never gone through it. Two, they have no clue and never studied the topic. And three, it's just not genuine. Anyone who magically says, in my opinion, just go out and do a run and you're going to feel better the serotonin and the cortisol levels Is exercise great, yes, is art. Is talking to a therapist, great. But again, anyone who needs help out there, I can say, as a testament from my own personal experience and people I've helped, it's going to take probably a couple different modalities and time.

Speaker 2:

There's no magic pill, there's no magic. Oh, let me take some this medicine and magically, by tomorrow I'm healthy and better and I'm snapped out of it. It doesn't work like that. Even some people like to say come on, you just got to put some effort into it, you're not trying hard enough.

Speaker 2:

And I think that is where we get those negative environmental factors that I was hinting about earlier, that even I experienced that when I was trying to get better.

Speaker 2:

There were some people who just laughed at me or thought that I was being weak, like you said, and I think it's a mix of that continuous negativity but also lack of understanding. For example, I know people I've lost to suicide and I can only imagine why, what happened, what led to it. But I really feel bad because I do wonder sometimes could it be that they didn't believe they had that support network? And that's why I wanted to loop back around saying you know, we shouldn't feel guilty for carrying someone's burden, whether they decided to do something like that, commit suicide but at the same time we should be cognizant to be able to reach out and again, even if we're not a licensed professional, if one of our friends may talk about that serious subject or we feel they may be presenting some type of symptoms, that they may be severely depressed, even leading towards substance abuse or suicide. What do we do next? Right, I think that's something that's lacking in our society how to help as just everyday, average people.

Speaker 1:

That's what I call. You know it's going to be kind of a vicious comparison, but you know it's gonna be kind of a vicious comparison. But you know, when we say I want a six pack, you don't go and do a hundred sit-ups and push-ups and like, yeah, I have it done now. No, yeah, it's a process, right, it will hurt a lot in the beginning. You don't see no improvement whatsoever and you continue going and trying and it's diet, exercise, sleep, you know, it's a whole bunch of other things. It's almost a change of life, right. You have to modify a lot of things and then, voila, you have your six pack and if you don't maintain all this, they start going away again. What do I mean with that?

Speaker 1:

Mental health is health, right, it's treated like health in the sense of like. When we have an injury, like you say, it hurt, but it wasn't that bad, it was deep, but it was one injury. Then I get another injury and another injury. Then, like you say, that cashier just blew the whole thing off. Right, it wasn't the cashier or the action of the cashier, it was like I don't have no more space for more injuries. I'm bleeding out, right, and it took you X amount of time to get in that position?

Speaker 1:

And the question is, specifically because we're celebrating mental health awareness, women, we tend to have our friends or groups and our cliques, and we do talk a lot about what is going on in our social environment, what is going on in our mental health and what is going on in our mental health, and et cetera, et cetera. But when it comes to, or sometimes, our partners, if we are having not been primal educated, we don't give them the space to talk and to feel their feelings. And I don't know. And I have a lot of guy friends and they always told me that it's changing, that now they have the opportunity to hear somebody like you talking about like, and they always told me that it's changing, that now they have the opportunity to hear somebody like you talking about like and they can see, I see me in you. And that impulsed me to talk to another guy friend that, hey, I noticed that you're not doing okay, because, it is true, a lot of my clients they have been referred to me by my clients They'll say, no, I think you should go see X, y and Z because it's your kind of thing, or you don't have to re-explain X, y and Z Also I I love how you touch in that as a group.

Speaker 1:

How can we, can you give I don't know like tips either to parents or youngsters and also peers that are male, that how can we support you guys, because this episode is for you old, that 20 something year old that drop out of college, or the one that said you know what I want to be entrepreneur, or the person that's like I know something that's going on with me and I want to go see a coach. I want to go see a person, but I don't know where to start.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So thanks for that question. So I'll try to answer that as concisely as possible. So taking a step back toward where I was right. So I'm this college dropout exploring now, learning through other people. So let's say, if we have any listeners who are parents of someone who they're concerned about going into college or they don't want them to go down that negative path and where I want to share some of the success and magic I've had now is I was not only vulnerable, I was not only scared, but I realized you know what. The only way to really get out of my shell, so to speak and at that time I was very introverted, more shy I have to do some scary things as well. What does that mean? I have to now meet more random people, I have to talk to more people, I have to look at career options and I'll be honest, that scared the hell out of me. I had never really done that before. I wasn't taught how to do that. So I became kind of a bookworm and started looking at YouTube videos and all that when YouTube was more new and just trying to learn and learn from different people and it doesn't mean everyone's going to always have the best advice, but I started doing what worked for me and it's just those little wins, those little successes.

Speaker 2:

For example, I moved back with my parents. They were supportive with the home life. I got a couple different jobs. I started going back to school slowly at community college level, and then I was going to networking events. I was basically rebranding myself. Before branding was a trendy thing and this is again back 2007 to 2009 era and for the practical aspect of it, I started reconnecting with some of my high school friends, making new friends now getting into the workforce, and I think it is truly healthy to have that diversity, because I had new goals, new challenges.

Speaker 2:

I was trying things that were, at that time, a little scary and out of my normal comfort zone, but I was also working in different jobs in different fields. So I had a few part-time jobs. I also went to school and I was learning that balance also meeting new people and meeting new people with the intention of actually genuinely wanting to learn, not just oh well, I need to meet this person because I'm going to get something from them, and I think that's something that we forget in society Too often. We're transactional, like a business oh well, I only want to talk to Mr Smith because Mr Smith is this and I only want to talk to Ms Johnson because Ms Johnson is the CEO of this. That's nice, but I think most people in society can see through that and by building the genuine relationships I learned quickly at that young age that quality over quantity I'd rather go to an event and talk to one or two people really well, quality conversation, no fake stuff.

Speaker 2:

If we click, we click. If we click, we click. If we don't click, we don't click. But almost like the, the dating anecdote, it's building relationships and seeing how I can actually add value to that person's life.

Speaker 2:

So, even as a young 20, 22 year old, think, well, I might not have much to offer. Well, I think, actually think, actually saying you know what? I'm a rising student, I'm interested in these career paths, I'm willing to learn, I'm willing to take on new roles. Is there any way I can shadow you? Maybe get a cup of coffee with you, give my time, donate my time. Also, if you have any mentorship, advice, things of that nature, that's at the basic level, then let's say, at a level beyond that, maybe we find that we have some kind of commonality and keep that relationship going and I think we'd be surprised to see a lot of our lives, no matter what culture we're from, what country we're from, relationships are so important. For example, I have many family members who they were able to get in a position of advantage that led them to finding out about a job because someone told them about a job opportunity, if that makes sense, just something simple like that.

Speaker 2:

I've had experiences where, even going back to school when I went to San Diego State University, because I was part of different clubs, because I started connecting to different social groups, I found out about opportunities, internships, scholarships, grants, awards not only locally in San Diego, nationally and internationally, which has been a privilege, because now that's how I can give back, even in these forms, which I'm always excited to, because I truly believe, with great opportunities, there's great responsibility that we need to now use that to help inform and share and spread the wealth with people. For me, I'm really excited to be able to have this conversation, even if it touches one person to think, wow, this guy was a dropout, he was depressed, he had no clue what was going on in his life and now to win all these awards, travel to over 50 countries to be well off, so to speak, in life, where I really don't have to worry. And now I'm more concerned about how can I give back, how can I help others, and I think it's important to have that combination of just genuine conversations, relationship building. So let's say more at the communal level, something I'm a part of thanks to a good friend of mine. He started a men's group about a year and a half ago.

Speaker 2:

Started a men's group about a year and a half ago and in that men's group we meet once a quarter and it's by invitation only and we started with a small circle of people. And what the goal is that we try to say we're men of integrity, men who want to support each other, and men who might be going through challenges might be going through successes. But if we don't support each other and men who might be going through challenges might be going through successes, but if we don't support each other, then who will right? Because at the end of the day, like you said, maybe for women, at least in our area of Southern California, it might be easier to connect, but for men, I think societally, the environment expects well, tough it out. Hey, just deal with it, you're the man of the house. You have to pick it up, step it up, get another job right.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

And we share. Everyone goes around, shares what they're comfortable to share. What are their successes? What are some things that they're working on, what do they want to be working on and really find ways to support each other. It's not a business mastermind group, it's not a political group, it's not a religious group. It's strictly focused on people who want to be there to support other people and also be accountable to themselves. So that's another aspect in the communal space.

Speaker 2:

Now, I know a lot of people might be thinking well, I don't really have that kind of connection to other men who I can trust and I get that. That's where I would say well, now there's the avenue of the therapists right. One thing that I advocate strongly about traditional therapy you can do it now in person, online, by phone. There's chatbots based on artificial intelligence, and what's cool about, I think, the traditional licensed therapist is that it's not a friend, it's not family. So for the people who might feel a little bit of shame, concern someone's going to spread my secrets, I think that's a great avenue to start, because this is a licensed professional who has to maintain confidentiality and you can really be vulnerable with. So that's another option for that sharing. And then, lastly, I'd like to share a little bit about self-accountability.

Speaker 2:

So, even though we're talking about communal groups, I say self-accountability as the individual person, but also accountability within our families, within our friend groups, within our religious groups, within our political groups, right? What I mean by that is that, yeah, we have to do our daily tasks, go to our job, take care of our families, take care of our kids. But if we're recognizing that something might be off, are we mature enough, are we brave enough to also say I wonder why I'm feeling this way? It doesn't mean something's wrong with you, it doesn't mean it's the end of the world, but, just like your car, you need an oil change, you need a tune-up, you need maybe to replace some belts in the engine, right? So same thing. Why is it so bad? Or we're conditioned? Same thing. Why is it so bad? Or we're conditioned, we're primed by society that, oh, but if you go get the checkup up here, you're crazy, something's wrong with you, don't let anyone find out, right?

Speaker 2:

So I think more that accountability of how we react in our friend groups, our social groups, our religious and political groups if we do see someone who's vulnerable. I'll be honest. I won't name names of the location, but I've been a part of some groups in the past that I'm no longer a part of that. I was very frustrated when these were supposed to be groups that care about people and say they're about community and they were some of, sadly, the meanest and most divisive people I'd ever met.

Speaker 2:

And I think it's really interesting how sometimes we think we're going to find care and comfort in some of these groups and we do have to hold those groups accountable and say you know what, actually the actions you're giving toward me are very negative, not supportive, and you're just gossiping about me rather than having a sit down with me, having lunch or conversing. And I say, yeah, sometimes we do need to cut the cord and establish those boundaries. Whether it's family, whether it's the social groups, the political groups, the religious groups, we have to peel back that onion. We have to peel back that onion, like I said, and then go back to the root cause.

Speaker 1:

So I'll stop rambling for that question. You're not rambling. So what I love about everything that you say, it gets to the summary, the core values of our podcast or Oasis podcast, right, that is be kind, meaning be kind with yourself, be kind with others, because we don't know where they have been or what they're going through. Be proud of who you are, why you are and where you have gone through, because if you were not proud for the struggles that you went through, somebody else that is 19 right now listening to you is like, oh my God, I'm in that situation right now, but you are proud of it and you have shown, just by example, by being kind to yourself, like you say, that seal of approval you have gave right now, so many men that seal of approval.

Speaker 1:

If I did it, if I went to the trenches and it was scary and it was really hard to find those groups and saying no to certain groups and saying you know what? This is not my people, this is not my, where I gonna grow. That is being proud of who you are and be loud. I mean going to many people, like you say, talking and say, hey, do you know what just happened to me? Do you know? Do you know so-and-so, like he can help you or like he can talk to you like the connector right Creating community of health.

Speaker 1:

Just, it's the hell of the hell of the community, the hell mental health, the physical health and, the most important thing, I think, the hell of being vulnerable, being accepted and accepting you a hundred percent. You, no matter what that you looks like and you were not rambling, that's what I was like. I was just like oh, I can hear you hours talking. If you want to connect with you, in the footnotes we're going to have all your information that way they can connect with you. But do you have any special project that you want to shout out or do you want to let us know what is your next big thing that you're doing?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So before I answer that, I guess I wanted to touch base on one more thing, if it's okay with you to give a shout out to a book I recently acquired. So I don't know if you've heard of this one. It's called Sacred Rest by Dr Sandra Dalton Smith, and I really have been promoting this one a lot. I don't get any royalties off of it.

Speaker 2:

I think the concept that she simplified in her theories the seven types of rest that focus on the physical rest, mental rest, sensory rest, creative rest, emotional rest, social rest and spiritual rest and it's so practical because even back in the day when I didn't know a lot about these topics, I'd think, well, I need to sleep more, I need to eat better, I need to just chill and veg out, so to speak. That's a commonly used phrase and I'd still wonder why I'm feeling the same way. But what she does is she nicely outlines in practical ways that I highly encourage. Even if you don't get the book, there's a lot of great articles and TED Talks that she's provided. So that was just something I wanted to leave as a practical note for everyone. Another thing that I think is very important, moving forward a little bit of theory that I've been looking into and learning about more, not only for myself but to help others, is the concept of neuroplasticity. So I don't know if your audience has heard about this much, but one of the sad parts, I think. Going back to the conversation, of One of the sad parts, I think, going back to the conversation of oh my gosh, there's something wrong with me, I'm going crazy.

Speaker 2:

These bad phrases that people commonly use if they're suffering from something in mental health are, oh, I'm going psycho. And it's just these triggering words that can really condition you to the negative. Right, think about it. If someone told a person tomorrow hey, you know what, I think something really bad is going to happen to your family. Just that thought. That's such a bad and negative thought that I think any one of us, if we hear that, we're like, oh my God, I really hope that doesn't happen. That would be so awful.

Speaker 2:

Now imagine if I said I have this really interesting feeling that something really good is going to happen to you tomorrow and I'm so excited for you. Who knows, maybe you'll win the lottery, maybe you're going to get a new position, but you know what, I'm just so excited for you. I don't know about you, but I can even feel it. Saying the two different examples of even I felt bad, saying something bad is probably going to happen to you tomorrow, versus I'm so excited for you. I really want something good to happen, and I think in our words we carry a lot of energy and what I'm getting at is, with that neuroplasticity, a lot of people sometimes think, okay, something's wrong with me, so it's always going to be wrong with me and I'm permanently having this issue.

Speaker 2:

And there's no going back more detail than what I'm explaining briefly, that there are ways to intentionally trigger and activate the mind so that you can repair it, like we were talking about repairing a vehicle or getting that tune-up, and I think it's so fascinating that there's more research on that now.

Speaker 2:

Fifteen plus years ago, in those stories that I told you about, I had never heard about anything related to that, but now that there's more theories about it, I think it will definitely be a game changer for people to see not only can the brain have negative effects to it, but it can be reversed or even improved even better than it was before. Same with traumatic brain injuries. I know there's a lot of military personnel as well as people who have just been in accidents, who have suffered from traumatic brain injuries, and know there's a lot of military personnel as well as people who have just been in accidents who have suffered from traumatic brain injuries and they've showed that that has altered the state of the brain. But there's ways to correct that, whether through chiropractor work, whether through psychological work, whether through medical doctors and surgery. So there's so many interesting, innovative things that are happening nowadays that I could talk about this for a week on and on, about just the different options and things. I've even seen work for myself or for others.

Speaker 1:

One point I like about the conversation that you just did is neuroplasticity. Is this amazing thing that where we put the focus, the brain goes. It's like training your brain to rethink in a certain way and you get like these connections, how sometimes, like you say, we have been primed in our communities and in our families to not have that neuroplasticity of like how we express things. I always say show me a normal person. When they say, oh, you're crazy. Okay, what is normal, right? So it depends who you ask and everybody will give you a different answer.

Speaker 1:

Neuroplasticity is something that we will talk about how to improve your mental health with it in the next episode, so stay tuned for that. I just want to thank you so much for such an amazing hour talking to you. Like I say, with him we can talk hours and hours and hours because he's just amazing, and if you haven't followed him, please go and follow all the addresses in how to get in contact with you. We'll be in the footnotes, also in the promotionals in the podcast and once again, I thank you so much for the space that you give to all our men to be here and to see themselves in you and all the beautiful things that is possible to have.

Speaker 2:

Thank, you so much. I just want to say, if you have one more minute, real quick, I just wanted to close up not only thanking your audience. I wanted to share something with the skeptical people out there, right, because I'm sure in this hour there's someone out there who's going to say, yeah, but that was nothing. So I'd like to kind of move fast forward to where I've been since that situation. So not only have I had many accomplishments without going into too much detail, I've been privileged to work on many interesting, let's say, projects ranging from with governments, with nonprofit sector, business sector, military sector. Some of those have ranged from projects in the US, in different countries. I just got back from Syria and Iraq. Those are conflict zones. Part of my specialty is in international security and conflict resolution and, on the global scale of things, part of my research has also focused on post-conflict reconstruction as well as how do we help engage with people who might have gone through difficulties or are and we have to be conscious culturally also based on people's religions, people's moral beliefs. So whether we're that person who is from a different background, different culture, or we're engaging that person, we have to be respectful. I've been in situations where the mental health topic got brought up and it was quickly shut down as basically saying well, based on my personal beliefs, I don't see that I need any help because that was the will of God or whoever was the higher power that they believed in. And that's their personal belief, in their faith so strong that they truly saw me as more the person who might need help. Because why am I making such an issue of it? And I don't necessarily see that as that person having a problem. If that's truly their conviction and their faith and their belief, then I see that as I should respect that. Otherwise, I'm being ethnocentric in my own view, trying to force my views or my opinions on that person. So I found that very interesting as well. Also, in some other places that I've traveled to, I was asking well, what about the topic of death and the fear of death and the death that people have witnessed? And I was told I don't fear death, I have my faith. Why should I be afraid of death? So it's very interesting.

Speaker 2:

I'm not saying what we've talked about in this hour is the end-all, be-all, the only way. There's so many ways, there's so many perspectives and I think it's also important to respect those perspectives. That's why I said I could truly go on and on and on and on, because I've lived it myself. I've been in conflict zones, I've met people from conflict zones, I've had my own near-death experiences, I've talked to people who've had near-death experiences, who have been in horrific situations.

Speaker 2:

There's so many different ways we have to solve these global conflicts, but especially related to mental health. So, again, peeling back the onion, we can't just apply cookie cutter principles to every situation, whether by city, by culture, by ethnic group, by country, by nationality, by so many different ways. I just want to give a warning out there too, to any practitioners that if we think we're just going to learn one modality, one theory and just apply it, we can't. As someone who has more that life experience, who's worked on that peer support level or that ecological first aid level, also working with people in conflict zone spaces, there's a lot of secondary trauma that people experience, and I think that's something that needs to be addressed as well. So just wanted to share a little bit on that and I'm happy if you ever want me to come back and chat more about that. I have many stories to share.

Speaker 1:

And we will have you back when we are talking specifically about our first responders and secondary trauma. Because, it is true, the caregiver that applies also to caregivers, right, the heroes, as they call it that are the ones that are a lot of the time suffering in silence because you're like wait, that didn't happen to me, why I am the one that is right now suffering, or how dare me to suffer about this? Because it's not an area that the same as neuroplasticity. It's not an area that, the same as neuroplasticity, is not an area that we have explored too much or talk too much. It's not talk about it that much. It has to do also with this theory of the mirror neurons, and neurons that fire together stay together. That happens with traumatic events too. Even though you haven't lived that traumatic event due to like, you can put the pieces together and you're seeing the pain in the other person. It becomes your pain.

Speaker 1:

Self-care is for everybody and I agree, background, religious, et cetera is a makeup. Depends what makeup you use, it will be the result right. So in Oroasis we try that you get what you need in different modalities that you can try, like one thing that opened my eyes, other than traveling to with a lot of countries and being a peacemaker, it was that in some places we don't have therapists, we don't have psychologists. We have the shaman, or we have breath work, or we have Reiki, or we have the shaman, or we have breath work, or we have Reiki, or we have sometimes chanting or praying, etc. Etc. Etc. There's so many modalities that help to stabilize your mental health. So if you're out there wondering what is out there, just come to our website and you will. We have different modalities there that you can test, like masterclasses to test, because that's the biggest shout out that you can give to anybody. That is like, hey, try yoga, or try therapy, or try it, make it so normal and so normalized and so common that you say, hey, do you try that new breath work technique? Or did you try you read this therapist new theory about neuroplasticity.

Speaker 1:

So we, as always, thank you so much for opening the eyes to um. You can tell he is an amazing um person to talk to. You can talk hours to know and you never get bored. You're just like tell me more and we are going to have more. Don't worry, we have plenty of our guests always come back, like many times, boogie is going to go for a very well-deserving vacation, but everybody, raise your little cup of tea, if you have one, and say thank you to Boogie for warming our soul or intellect. Thank you so much for having us in here, for sharing with us all your knowledge.

Speaker 1:

As we conclude today's episode, take a moment to reflect. Be proud of the journey, for every step that brings you closer to who you truly are. Embrace the kindness towards yourself, as you did to each one of our guests. Honor the bravery in your actions and celebrate the importance of mental wellness with us. And remember it's an exercise that we practice daily. Continue to grow and flourish, knowing that we are in this training for our mental wellness together. We are so proud to have you as part of our community, so join us on Instagram at Oroasis Community Podcast for more inspiring conversations.

Speaker 1:

More inspiring conversations, valuable resources and supportive content, including journals, worksheets and content in Spanish. Exciting things are in the horizon. Our Oasis community break rooms are coming soon to grab tools and take a break for your mental health. Also, we are featuring our six-month training ethical mental health coaching program designed for new and experienced coaches, as well as holistic and healing professionals. Enroll to create a safe and transformative experience to your clients. Links in the bio. Until next time, take care, stay connected and welcome to our Oasis community.