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Rebuilding Trust and Self-Identity After Religious Trauma & DV

• Dr. Roldan and Grace Williams • Season 4 • Episode 4

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Grace Williams's journey from surviving domestic abuse to finding her path beyond religious trauma is nothing short of inspiring. With the help of Dr. Roldan, they unravel the intricacies of healing and the transformative power of self-love. Their conversation unveils the often-hidden struggles that come with leaving a community that equates questioning with defiance, particularly for women who face the dual challenge of domestic and religious oppression. Together, they explore how building a supportive network outside traditional frameworks can ignite the journey from mere survival to genuine thriving.
Reconnecting with oneself after such profound loss requires rebuilding trust, both in others and within.
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Disclaimer: It's essential to note that while I am a therapist, this podcast is not a substitute for therapy. The stories and discussions shared here are meant to inform and inspire but should not replace professional advice or support. 

National Domestic Violence Hotline (USA)
Website: https://www.thehotline.org
Phone: 1-800-799-SAFE (7233)
Love Is Respect (Youth/Teen DV Support)
Website: https://www.loveisrespect.org
Phone: 1-866-331-9474
Text: Text "LOVEIS" to 22522
Domestic Violence Support Groups:
DomesticShelters.org
Website: https://www.domesticshelters.org
Women’s Law (Legal Assistance)
Website: https://www.womenslaw.org
National Coalition Against Domestic Violence (NCADV)
Website: https://ncadv.org
Futures Without Violence
Website: https://www.futureswithoutviolence.org
The Hotline (Latina Resource Center)
Website: https://espanol.thehotline.org





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Speaker 1:

Hello, hello our Oasis community. I am Grace Williams with Love those Vibes. I created Love those Vibes out of my desire to be an abundant, fulfilled mom, and as I learned it, I realized how many women just didn't have the tools they needed to live the life that they truly desire and learn to love themselves fully. I cannot wait to dive in and talk to you guys today.

Speaker 2:

Hello, beautiful souls, and welcome to Oroasis Community Podcast. I am Dr Roldan, your host. I am a doctor in clinical psychology, a BIPOC therapist professor and a mindful somatic coach. While I am a therapist, remember I'm not your therapist. This podcast is not a substitute for professional mental health care, but we have resources in our website and Instagram to support you in that search. Join us for a cozy, felt conversation about mental health, personal growth and mindfulness. We explore tools to care for your mind, your body and your soul. Check the footnotes for disclaimer, trigger warnings and additional resources for each one of the episodes.

Speaker 2:

So grab your favorite cup of tea, coffee or hot chocolate, wrap yourself in a warm blanket and find a coffee spot here with us to be kind to be brave, loud and strong in your search of mental health wellness. Welcome to your Oasis. Good morning everybody and welcome to our Oasis community. Grab your tea, your cup of coffee, to just feel the fuzzies in your soul. Today I have one of a dearest friend, but also a woman that has gone through back and forth and is a testament of great grit and resiliency and love and self-love. So, please, everybody, welcome Grace Williams. She is the creator that loved those vibes. And Grace welcome to Oroasis community.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here with you.

Speaker 2:

Today we want to dive in. What do we do after trauma? And this is the trigger warning for everybody. We may have been talking about topics that they will be triggering. So, as always, go to your cozy corner, take your blanket, grab your smoochie bellow or grab whatever you need to be okay in this episode, or skip it and come back later, after you do some resourcing or some grounding, and come back later after you do some resourcing or some grounding. So, grace, start your story wherever you feel comfortable, but the main topic that we are going to talk today is grit and resiliency. And what is the difference between I just surviving versus I am thriving because I'm healing?

Speaker 1:

Oh, yes, this is such a dear topic to me. I am a domestic abuse survivor and also I also say that I survived high demand religion and I didn't realize it, but it was a big factor in why I ended up in an abusive marriage and why I stayed there. And when I stepped out of the abusive marriage I also lost much of my community and with each step that I took to take care of me, that community fell away further and further and it became very lonely. I put so much pressure on my husband when I met him to sort of like fill all the things and you know, I went from having what I thought was a thriving, beautiful community to being very alone, and it was.

Speaker 1:

It was challenging and being in the domestic violence was challenging. But the aftermath was surprising For me. I didn't. I kind of thought when I left I went through a few months of counseling, very much in the religious setting that I was in, and I thought, oh, like we're doing good, I'm through a lot of those you know red flag reasons why I'm like I'm sure I'll never go back there. And it sort of turned around and realized I was pretty much alone and had to rebuild my community. It was a big challenge for me.

Speaker 2:

Right, and thank you for that, grace. And in another episode we have been talking about domestic violence too, and what you're talking about is what in therapy we call a religious trauma. Yeah, and when I first came here to the United States, I had that. You know, they grabbed me as their project to heal me and stuff, and I had great friends. You know, I have a group of girls that were my friends. I was young, I was like 22. And they were like 20. No, I was 25. Sometimes I'm not 20.

Speaker 2:

In my 20s, in my early 20s, and you know I didn't speak english when I came into this country, so I was the project that they grabbed me.

Speaker 2:

Let me show you the country and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2:

Uh, because I was a refugee and they were great kids, you know, they were loving and caring, but everything was about the religion, right.

Speaker 2:

And then I met a guy, uh, caucian, and it was abusive, very abusive to the point that I ended in the hospital two, three times, and one of the seven girls one of the seven girls is the one that helped me to get out, but the other six they were OK with it they were like no, because you, your higher power, god, whoever you call it, is sending you to help him and to tell you how many times you want to get out and the beat ups that God for that and I say this to everybody out there because you know they see you Grace is just a joy of love. When you meet her, you just want to squeeze her and feel all the love out of her and you see me like I'm a powerhouse, like you know, doctor, and all these things, and you think they never went through anything. But we do, because through religion there is so much trauma and so much permission to attack and diminish the soul of people. Yeah, there is so many.

Speaker 2:

That's what we have so we literally in therapy we have a whole section that is dedicated to religious trauma, because it's almost like cult. Uh, trauma too. Yeah, and I said that because move forward like thank goodness I get out of the relationship, but not because my friends in the religion I get off. Because it got so bad and it wasn't because I was being hurt so much. It was when this person attacked my mom and I was like. That's when I was like no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2:

And it wasn't not even an attack, attack, you know, it just was mean. He has never done that before. So I was like nah, and my mom being my mom, she called the police, and that's when it break every second. And when she knew what was happening to me she was like how, you didn't tell me and blah, blah, blah. And I was like my friends approve it, so how, I will say it. So for you, how was like the church, almost like a detrimental to get out like a detrimental to get out.

Speaker 1:

Uh it, I literally had a pastor counsel me on so many things that he thought I was doing wrong uh when I separated from my ex-husband for my own safety, even to the point where I left, I was in a very, very like conservative religion. And then, um, when I stepped out of there, I still wanted that community and connection, right, I still wanted that higher power connection. So I sought something that was more open and mainstream, and what surprised me there is that there the ex-husband sort of followed me along. But what I learned was that in the original space, all of the focus was on him and, you know, saving him, fixing him, helping him, and it was like my own family. And that was shocking, because that is that's how we were all raised. And so there were moments where I was like, is it me, should I, should I be doing something different? And as I stepped out of that space and got into something that was more mainstream, more open, I realized, okay, taking care of me is okay, and um, you know, and I'll be honest with you that that the friendships I had in that church space were gone, um, the, they just didn't exist.

Speaker 1:

Once I stepped out of that space and and to find all of that over again, family relationships, um, weren't so much about leaving that relationship, but sort of the healing I did and the perspectives I have and how I moved forward in my own life. Um, then those family relationships started to fall away and the ones that honestly were about the abuser I had already kind of boundaried myself off from those really almost like fenced me in and made me feel like I couldn't do something different and still, at the time I was, it was a Christian religion so and still love God, and I struggled with that because I that was deeply a part of who I was at the time and it made me feel like I had to in order to save myself physically and emotionally. I had to lose a part of me that I thought was important to me. And as I moved through that space, which took me years because I didn't seek therapy I went through some counseling that was addiction-based, religious based, based on the abuse that I was in and had a very much like glad that's over feeling and I really did, and it was like I spent a few months there.

Speaker 1:

I grew but looking back, I could have, I could have probably healed so much sooner had I stepped further out of that space, so that constantly like being taught and ingrained to be into that, like with my family. Growing up it was always like God and church, family, and then if they're not part of that, they may not really be good for your life. And that was so. My entire community was built around that space and it was only in my early twenties when I stepped out of that space. I started to see like there are beautiful, amazing people outside this space. Like why didn't anyone tell me they were here? And I'm so grateful that I did at that time, because it was that little seed of those beautiful people and friendships that helped me pull myself out of that abusive space. Thank you for that.

Speaker 2:

And I just see chills Because I I resonate with that so much and it's something that we don't talk because you know we all need a higher power, a higher force, and when you talk to people then you're the evil person, right, and you're like how, how, how and with. In my story you have a happy ending. Don't worry people, we're happy married, we are like that's, we have healed. But it took years In my, my journey. I still, I love that relationship, but I stay still with my friends, my, my girlfriends it was a group of girls and I learned to speak English and I'm a very opinionated person and I was like this doesn't make sense. What you're asking me to do and what you guys do is not okay, you know, like segregating people, pushing people away because they don't believe the same things, or saying you're evil because, uh, for example, uh, back in the days when I started my uh buddhist, uh, mindfulness learning, and they were like, oh my god, that's the devil.

Speaker 2:

And I'm like but how right and um, you know, I come from a country that we have a lot of mayan well, I'm half mayan, half spanish and we have a lot of traditions that they may look like witches or stuff like that for certain religions, but they're just root rituals and I remember that a lot of them they say you know, don't sleep around, don't talk to people, and stuff like that, but they will do all those things and I'm like I don't get it. You're telling me not to do this, but it's okay if we repent.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

So in my in my head was like that's not okay. Um, and then fast forward. Unfortunately, I got diagnosed with a chronic illness that put my life in danger and I have another partner and we didn't do well and I lose. I will like to say I was very graceful losing that relationship, but I wasn't. I didn't heal before the previous relationship and I still have that religion's cuckoo pops happening. So when I got really sick, that support didn't happen because I didn't agree with them. They were like oh, pray about it and you will get healed. I'm like that's not going to get healed like that. I'm sorry, I'm a scientist, right, right. I appreciate the good vibes, but it was so extreme and then in a second like this, I lost the community because I didn't agree with them, because I challenged the status quo of like or a leader was an ex-football player that was sleeping around and taking all the money of the church, and I was like it's okay.

Speaker 2:

And they said, oh, you have to forgive them because God. And then I, I'm a, I'm a feminist. Which feminism?

Speaker 2:

it doesn't mean we hate men, it means, we love men that we want to teach our next generation to love everybody, and I'm a feminist. Back in the day it was a little more like, a little more rough, if you will, and I didn't understand why every center of religion had to do with men, like it's based in men for their needs and wants, and we were just tools and, of course, being me me, I was very opinionated about it. They, to tell you they were. It was so easy for them to like just drop me off. Yeah, the earth, yeah, um, they, I don't know they use this kind of narrative that I was the evil one, that I was like that, not the healthy one, yeah, stuff like that. And many times I reach out because I miss the friendship.

Speaker 2:

It was a good friendship in the surface you know, um, and because of that I become very resentful of religion for multiple reasons also. Also because I was very sick. So I was like damn you firepower Sure.

Speaker 1:

That's understandable.

Speaker 2:

Right. And then it wasn't that the darkest times in the hospitals or, like you know, going through the thick of it that I started doing work with survivors of domestic violence and human trafficking and refugees, and then I learned that you can help them to heal with whatever higher power they have, taking the shame out of it, because religion is so shameful. That's how they keep you. They shame you for everything that you do, especially women. Men can have desires, Women cannot. Men can have multiple partners, women cannot. Men can get divorced.

Speaker 2:

We cannot so it was all that thing in you know, coming from a very Catholic country, which, when you learn that we are Catholic because we want conquer, Right, you're like, oh, that makes sense. We don't want it Right. So I say all this to everybody listening, because, if you notice, grace's story and my story are similar, yeah.

Speaker 1:

We had a community.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we, in a way we were brainwashed a little bit. Yeah, to the point that we put ourselves in such a dangerous position. Yes, and we blame ourselves for what happened to us. I did, and we blame ourselves for losing the friendships, the community. And then I don't know about you, but it was so hard for me to trust again. Anyway, like family, friends, anybody, I was like I don't know, and if you talk about religion I will run for the hills. I'm like peace out.

Speaker 1:

I'm, so you know what I'm, so you know what I it's. I and I struggled with that for the longest because there's there's this part of me that like feels like you know, I want that. Like you had said, I was looking into mindfulness and all those things that I felt very spiritual, but I felt like every time I dove into things, they just were like on the other side of the door there was religion waving at me and I was like no, no, no, and I just, honestly, it would be like I would follow people on social media and then I would dive down in and be like there it is again. So I really have been very arm's length and I did like I I mean I lost close connections with family members who were my dearest, closest friends as well, and that's been a struggle.

Speaker 1:

I mean I see them at family weddings, funerals, major life events, but there's no relationship there anymore because they're in that space and they they couldn't accept me when I chose not to be in that space. Um, and that that was really difficult and I have been. I I mean like I've made mom friends over the years but they sort of, as the kids grew, those relationships change, the kids grow apart. You don't keep in touch as well, and I've had to be super intentional about, yeah, opening myself up and building community, because it's lonely when you don't have community. But it's also really hard to trust after you go through that right, I, my saving grace was video games.

Speaker 2:

Uh, you know, and that's funny enough, that's what my whole private practice and everything I do is is about. Like you know, uh, finding that community even, or oasis community yeah is come with all your take a break and go whenever you need to you know, because that's what I needed.

Speaker 2:

I needed a place that I can rest, recover and move on to the next step. Right, and the gaming community gave me that. I mean, yeah, they're toxic in certain parts, but like everything you know, and funny enough, when I did my practicums in addiction medicine, one of the things that irked me, I was like, is that a lot of the programs are based in 12 steps, which is nothing wrong with the 12 steps they work, they're amazing but for people that has religious trauma, they're very overly traumatic because so you get very traumatized because, kind of like, four of the steps are, like religion based yeah um.

Speaker 2:

So when you are trying to recover and and if you are in a religious trauma, recovery or even domestic violence, they, they use those. So I always tell my, my clients, you know that is a smart recovery which is neutral. It's not neither, nor there is um. You can go and just think about a higher power. There's always a higher power. Nature, uh, self-love, call it whatever you want, but I told them, if they have rules and regulations for you to be accepted, that's a no-no, no because, whoever loves, loves you as you are and who you are Granted.

Speaker 2:

you have to have boundaries and rules of engagement, but those are not rules of shaming.

Speaker 1:

No.

Speaker 2:

Those are not rules of exclusion and, like you, I lost a lot of family members with that too. Because you know, the more that you heal and I say this to all my patients the more that you heal I say this to all my patients the more that you heal, and this is why sometimes people stop healing. Um, you realize how not so healed around you is, yeah, and then, and then you have to start. Do I want to stay here? Do I need to?

Speaker 2:

I love this person, but it's not healthy yeah and that includes parents, brothers, sisters, um, that they, I call it the levels you know of evolution emotionally, and they are not there. It's not their fault, right, but if they are not wanting to move, then that is a decision that you have to have right, yeah um, right now it's very popular, like the whole tech talks and instagram and all the social media that says kids no contact with parents. A lot of them is because they have religious trauma, because as kids we didn't choose our religions. As kids we were dragged to it.

Speaker 1:

Everyone, every single one. Yes, every single one, you're right.

Speaker 2:

And I was a rebel since I was a little kid. I remember that when I was a little kid, you know, in Catholicism they have this thing called First Communion, where you go as a little kid with the white dress and stuff. I was wicked smart since I was little and I always questioned everything. That's how they raised me right, and I was like, wait, this is like kind of like a wedding, this is very creepy and I refuse and refuse to do that whole procession thing that they do. And because they make me, I decide to wear a black dress oh my god, I love it the prisoners were like you're not doing this.

Speaker 2:

They're like I don't have another dress, take me or leave me like this my parents knew who I was.

Speaker 2:

so they were like, just like, oh my god, this kid, um, but I said that because I have that agency, because my parents allow me to. Yeah, yet still they want me to do the rituals, they still they want me to do the things that everybody else did. And I said this because if you believe in something we're not telling you, not to, what we're telling you is just to be mindful of why you're getting indoctrinated in anything. You know, I always say, as a good scientist, we question everything. Yeah, because if it cannot be repeated, if it cannot be, if it's not healthy for everybody, then it's harmful. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1:

I love that Learning that perspective helped me really like okay, I'm on a path that makes sense for me because thatctrinated for so long it was really difficult to do.

Speaker 1:

And then, but I, when I heard that perspective, like hey, it's like it's got to be good, because that's what I used to like, I would hear things like oh God spared us. Or and think, well, what about the other people? You know, like we're like a tornado. God spared them, but not them. Wait, that doesn't really add up for me, you know, and I struggled with that kind of like different teachings like that for the longest time, but I was not as bold a kid as you are. I love the black dress. That's amazing. I wish I was.

Speaker 2:

Well, I grew up with a lot of brothers and I'm the baby and the only girl. Right, right, okay, I grew up with a very what I call inflated ego, if you will.

Speaker 1:

I love it.

Speaker 2:

But aren't we in that one that you grow up thinking there's something wrong with me, you know?

Speaker 1:

because I don't fit the bill.

Speaker 2:

I don't do this. And then for a lot of people that doesn't know, uh, religious trauma is actually a um, not a mental illness, but a trauma trauma. It's called rtc or religious trauma syndrome, and part of the symptoms that you know form this is confusion, difficult making decisions and critical thinking. So those three things are things that we need to survive to, aka why we end in domestic violence relationships. It creates anxiety, panic attacks in order to go and meet new people, depression, existential crisis, who I am and why I'm here. Then it goes like stages of grief, right, anger and bitterness, bitterness, social dysfunction. That's why we have a lot of people that self-suit with drugs, alcohol and sex. Loss of meaning and direction because you have been put in this kind of perspective of you're the bad person. You are bad because you are leftist, and then insulation. Yeah, so with that it came the search of a community.

Speaker 2:

Right, because we lost a community, so now we want one and, um, I would love to say that love life coaching was my saving grace, but it wasn't. I just I would like this another way of culty things, just because the ones I was going it was more of a fix in, like what's wrong with you and like yeah, yeah, um, and they were tapping into like a lot of psychological traumas and stuff like that in order to sell, um, not everybody's like that, there's good cultures out there sure um reason why I I'm always say, before I criticize something I have to experiment it, right?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I went to Breathwork. I remember that one very clearly and I hated it. I was like this is very woo-woo and very kind of culty. I don't know, it wasn't not my vibe. And then I tried a year or two later with somebody else and it was beautiful. I don't know if it was because I was more open to it or what, but I'm a free believer. That is the person that is guiding you. Yeah, right, the first person. It was very like. It is a flair, a little bit of religious culty. Right, the other one was very, very free, very like, come as you are, kind of like a community.

Speaker 2:

I kind of mimic that, come as you are, I'm gonna want to change you. You change for you you don't change for nobody else. Um, everybody is perfect when you, when you're born, you're perfect right every everybody's a good person when they're born it's not such a thing as a good person or bad person. It's good choices, bad choices, right and consequences with those.

Speaker 1:

No, I hear that and you know when I always say that too, like when you, when you look at children, you know we, we love them as they are, like why we don't need to fix that. All they need is the tools to learn and grow and do things like walk and eat and talk and all the things, not to mention the emotional. But it's just interesting that we get to a point where we we were accepted then and loved them, but then now you're not, and you know, I will tell you one concept of like feeling worthy of whatever dreams love.

Speaker 1:

Really. Even just till a couple of years ago I was in a just a small group coaching and the topic came up briefly. It was a business coaching, but someone mentioned it and it was like a earworm. It just stuck with me and I was like I don't know about this worthy thing. So I did like dive into it because and that's really what I came up with was why, why do we start out worthy of all those beautiful things and then somewhere along the way we become unworthy? No, not at all.

Speaker 1:

If we started that way, we're still that way.

Speaker 2:

And that brings us how Ms Grace and I met. It was in one of those business coaching slash communities. It wasn't one of those business coaching slash communities and I'm very open to people go into coaching, into therapy, but a lot of people go to coaching because it's less threatening. The reason why I create, for example, my coaching academy for coaches not for people, but it's for coaches it's because I noticed that there is good people out there that wants to do good in the world but they don't have the training because, you know, coaching doesn't have the same schooling and parameters that a therapist does. Not saying that there are not good coaches there.

Speaker 2:

Also, that's not saying that there's bad therapists out there right because I remember one of my first therapy uh, patients like you. It was, uh very religious, so I was like, what's the point? Like you, you are the person telling me the same thing that I don't want to hear because right, um so.

Speaker 2:

So I was like it's not going to work and I try another one. And that does stick better. Which brings me to if you do coaching or if you are in the healing process, will you recommend coaching first, therapy first, a combo vote? For example, in my own experience and I'm biased because I'm a clinical psychologist person, so I'm a therapist, so it's kind of different but for 14 years we have to go to therapy.

Speaker 2:

You know, like all our career, it's like mandatory for us, so you have to dig a lot and stuff. And people always told me why are you so happy? And I'm like, oh, you only knew the storm that I went through.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Like one thing that if you're listening, I want you to. I don't know where you are in your life story, but if you're listening to, I promise you that the storm ends. Yes, I'm not saying you're not going to get bruises, I'm not saying that you're not going to come out almost drowning, because we do. But we can rebuild, we can be that person that we dream wants to be. And that doesn't mean having all the money of the world, having the perfect partner. No, that means we accept us for who we are at that moment. Us for who we are at that moment, bruce and all. We accept ourselves who we are, not because we did this good deed, which a lot of religious trauma leads to people pleasing and codependency.

Speaker 2:

And then when you have a partner that is healthy, we push it away because it doesn't feel one either worthy or it doesn't feel like they love us, like they supposed to love us, because we are trying to patch all the other holes that we create with those storms. I call it like we went to. I forgot how you say it in English. You know when, instead of rain, you have ice, little balls of?

Speaker 1:

ice.

Speaker 2:

Oh, you're like sleet or hail, I don't know the difference, but yeah yeah, the hell is the big the big one. So imagine you are a poor little car of crystal that can with that. It gets broken. But it keeps going and unfortunately when we find a new partner we want that partner to fix all of it.

Speaker 1:

Everything. Fix all the holes Right. Heal all the things. Be everything yeah.

Speaker 2:

Right. So tell me a little bit about that story for you, how that went, because for me it took me after that whole drama with the religious people and then being sick, it took me 10 years of being single before I even try, because I was like I need to help myself.

Speaker 2:

I need to heal myself, I need to work on me first before I can work in anybody. So when I say work with anybody, meaning together as a partnership, and I understood what partnership means versus like oh, you complete me, oh, my, my god, that irks me. When they say that you complete me, no, you're totally, completely human right we are partners um, so tell me your story about that, because you have a great one too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so we met, um. So as I was sort of flailing around trying to find community, one piece of that community came in music for me. I am a singer and have been for years, and at the time I sort of dove into that in my free time because it just like nourished my soul. And I met a couple, literally just by nature of alphabetically seated, whether you were a soprano or alto in a big chorus festival for for holiday performances and stuff. And that's how I met my husband. I happened to be seated next to the woman who would eventually marry his cousin, and so we met at the wedding functions and there were a couple of other students she became my voice teacher and friend and there were a couple of other students that we were all just a little bit older than most of the other people in the wedding party and stuff. So we all kind of clung together in those events and hung out and my husband and I.

Speaker 1:

Now he's my husband just really clicked and he you know, if you meet us, you he's super quiet, super laid back. He's super quiet, super laid back, a very balanced Libra and I am, you know, an emotional cancer woo, all the time, very sociable and so for us to have connected. It's just surprising for a lot of people, but for us as well. And we, we were both in a space that we probably, like I, felt like I had been healing for a few years and I was open to a new relationship. And I think, looking back, we both realized that we brought a lot of mess and baggage into this relationship with each other. But what we've done is we've encouraged each other to grow through that on our own and not there was a point where I started putting all of that on him because he let me just be completely myself and for the first time there was no expectation. He just enjoyed being with me. He didn't want me to be a certain way, look a certain way, do a certain thing. He just he didn't expect me to change my schedule I was doing.

Speaker 1:

When we met, I was in the throes of that holiday performance season and during the whole month of December there was, you know, I was busy with business. I threw all the events for our staff and our contractors and my tenants at the time, and then I, on top of that, I was doing all these 10 performances squeezed into like 10 days and we met before that but our relationship was sort of in that space where you like, you want to hang out, you want to do stuff, and I could barely see him in that time and he just completely respected that. This was something important to me. I mean, the man he's not even remotely interested in like holiday of festival performances, yet he came and sat in the audience of like 3000 people just to watch me sing in a choir of 100, you know. And so for me that was such new territory because relationships before that I was always in a position where I was meeting someone else's needs, I was serving them.

Speaker 1:

And this was the first time it felt mutual and I loved that and it drew me to him even more.

Speaker 1:

And what I loved about him was that, despite he had been through so much trauma in his life and he's had so much loss in his life, but he had such a close knit community and every time I spoke to him he was meeting up with a close friend and like these are lifelong friends. And I love that about him because I lost all that and I was like, wow, that's so beautiful. But what happened was, as I stepped into that relationship and became more intimate with him, I started to sort of resent that he had that and I didn't have it. And it's not that I didn't like his friends and I didn't want him to be there. It's that, like you're getting something I don't and I don't that I didn't like his friends and I didn't want him to be there. It's that you're getting something I don't and I couldn't like if I struggled with the person closest to me, like how is it? Like I don't know how to get that, I didn't have the tools to get it and it was really hard and it put a big strain on our marriage. It really did. And you know, I threw myself into momming our little ones, because I had two kiddos right in the right in a row they're a year and 13 days apart, and so I sort of threw myself into them. But I still like all that time. I just I felt like I'm now looking back.

Speaker 1:

I put so much pressure on him and my kids to sort of be that everything, be that community, be that some more, and I I just really struggled to find it on my own. So it was fun, that early faith. But then once you know we were living together and building life together in the long term, it was like, wow, his the things that were healthy for him in life made me realize how much I was missing and that was really hard for me to navigate and I wish I could tell you I was so beautiful and jumped right into therapy and worked through it. I did not, I was miserable. I was honestly so immature in so many ways and I'm just grateful that he was so patient while I worked through it. And you know it's sort of the hormonal stuff I went through after my son did not help at all, so that just sort of exacerbated all of it.

Speaker 1:

But I just got to the point when my kids were, you know, in preschool age, like I, I want, I don't want this. I don't want to fall asleep on the train every morning because I'm so tired, because I don't sleep well at night. I don't want to fall asleep on the train every morning because I'm so tired, because I don't sleep well at night. I don't want to. You know, as they grow up, I don't want to hold them back because I think that they need to feel something for me.

Speaker 1:

You know, I wanted, I wanted that fun and that playfulness that I had when I was, you know, climbing in a tent with my kids or running around at a playground with them. I wanted to start to feel that in different areas of my life. And it wasn't until I stopped and acknowledged that desire that I think I was able to really go. Okay, now I can like, not immediately, but now I can start also being more aware of the pressure I'm putting on him and how I'm throwing myself into motherhood to a point where this probably isn't the healthy way to do it, you know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, a lot of times, when we become parents with our partners, we actually open those wounds again and again and again if we don't heal them. And to everybody out there that's like, oh, I'm not going to therapy, it's okay. Normally speaking, people come to therapy when you're in the thick of it or when you're in a crisis, right, um, because we need to heal a lot of things from the past.

Speaker 2:

You come to coaching when we already heal those things, or part of it right and we want to learn skills to like repel us to a new era, if you will, and what I resonate with you too, is like during those 10 years of singlehood. I call it singlehood, but I did mingle but you know, it wasn't nothing serious, but my mindset was like I'm not going to get into a relationship because I knew that I wasn't completely healed.

Speaker 2:

I knew that I have a lot of things to do and heal, why not? And finally, when I met my partner it was not even. I was not even searching like at all. You know, and if you see my husband and I people, always the first thing that they say you guys are married.

Speaker 2:

Because, because you know, we work in very high profile, uh, when we met we were working in very high profile security careers, so in public we cannot be very mushy or anything. Because for safety right, sure, uh, and he is super serious, like stoic almost, and you, whoever meets me, you know I'm a bouncy ball up and down right and I'm all like hugging people and how are you? And just, I'm very friendly and he's not. He's like kind of almost terrifying to people because he's like I call it a vampire because he's in the back just observing. But the same right, he has gone through um conventions with me. In fact, the first convention that I went as a coaching and white net, it was women's empower thing, which I was like ew women right, because I have been traumatized with the religions group.

Speaker 2:

So I was like no, and I went and I find this community was so beautiful. I find, yes, there were, there were clicks, but you know, I have learned to observe, love them and not participate.

Speaker 1:

Right, right.

Speaker 2:

Uh, so for everybody out there, you're an adult now, so we can observe and not participate, it's okay, you don't have to be with the cool kids anymore.

Speaker 1:

You can make your own cool kid.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, um, and I just buy with a lot of people like grace and others and it just was such a beautiful friendships because they don't expect nothing from you, right? So a friendship is one that doesn't put, um, you do this for me because I did this for you. It's one that doesn't give you rules, like you have to wear pink on Wednesdays, kind of like mean girls, like I swear my friends in back in church they were like the mean girls and it was okay to be like that versus this one.

Speaker 2:

It's like we love everybody. Come over here, yeah, and my husband and I, for everybody out there, highly recommend, highly Every single boyfriend I have. After my whole thing, I make them go to family therapy with me when we were getting serious. And everybody what? Because we need to learn how to communicate. Hey, this is my baggage. Which one is yours? Which pieces do you want for?

Speaker 2:

mine, which pieces do you want for yours? How can we accept this? And why not? Because you know like, we all come with something right, we all are dealing with something, and you know, um, the good thing is that we can heal from it little by little um. And for you, grace, how was it? After going through therapy and healing? I know now you have a love, those vibes. Can you tell us about how that was born and why was that born?

Speaker 1:

Sure, so that came out of.

Speaker 1:

So let's just, let's say summer of 2019. The short version is that our family car, which was like the good one of the two that we owned, literally up and died on my birthday, the day before we were supposed to drive it off to family vacation and we were at because during my healing, before my healing process, I made a lot of impulsive decisions. One of them was to step out of my career position because I was super unhappy there. I and and it really I loved the staff that worked with me, but it was the management I reported to that I struggled with deeply woman. I stayed there and I dealt with it because I loved my team so much. But what happened was when I became a mom, that strain just sort of started like wearing on me and I, when my son was born, after that maternity leave, when I went back to work, I had decided, like shortly after, I'm not going to be staying in this position too long. I don't know how and when I'm going to get out, but I'm going to get out.

Speaker 1:

And in the midst of being in that, this was during that really angsty period where I was putting all kinds of stuff on my husband. One was a big financial load because I quit that job, took something part-time, the pay was way less, the hours were way less, and God bless him because he's super supportive and he was like, if that's what you need, like I'm here, we. And so our finances were really tight and we were just when just kind of getting back to I had gone back to work full time after a few years, had gone back full time, our finances are getting back to normal, and so we weren't in a great position to like have a car breakdown and have to replace it, and so it was kind of a stressor and my money mindset was still a hot mess back then and, um, it's been a big thing. Watching my single mom struggle is a big reason. I struggled with that for the long time. Um, but he so the short of it is our mechanic. Let us basically borrow a car that we were probably going to buy for him.

Speaker 1:

And on that vacation, on that drive, I made the decision like we need to do something to bring more money into this household and it can't be like a full time or a part time job where I've got to find another babysitter, because that's like we're already we. I can't do that. It's already hard enough to do that as it is, and so I found um a direct sales. During that week, a friend of mine, who was an online friend, started doing one of the direct sales and I was like.

Speaker 1:

You know what I actually?

Speaker 1:

I didn't even want to do it, I just wanted to get it for free and so I hosted a party for her and then by the time I was done, I again direct sales can have a very culty vibe, so I was very cautious of not stepping into spaces like that because of my history.

Speaker 1:

But I saw it was a really innovative product and I was like I think this can sell and actually do something good for me. So I hopped in by the end of that summer and it actually did like it paid for groceries and car that summer and it actually did like it paid for groceries and car repairs here and there as we needed it it was. It was a good little thing to kind of keep our finances floating better. But during that time I met some really cool women and I started to rebuild community and none of us are really active in that anymore, but we all kind of connected, I think, because we wanted to do things differently in that space, and we ended up in a coaching group and in that coaching group I really thought I was getting like Instagram strategy to do better at like connecting with people and putting the product out there and I had no idea the healing journey that they were all about to help me dive into and it was just like a 12 week, like I don't know, like a masterclass kind of thing.

Speaker 1:

And she started yeah, she started with, like the first meditation and like lesson she gave us was on forgiveness and I was like what the actual freak I don't like?

Speaker 1:

This is space I don't really want to go into Because in my mind, like I healed from all that I was done and the exercise she had us do was so healing that every single module she had for us after that I just dove in and ate it up and it helped me transition my mindset so much from living in that space of feeling lacking to like I lost my community. But I can go find a new community and build clients. And I took a $10 workshop and in that workshop, in the middle of it, I was like, oh, I need to create a subscription box for moms who feel overwhelmed and need to learn how to love themselves. And I was like what, this is the dumbest idea ever. My, my crew, my mom tribe, that I was business crew was they're going to talk me out of it. And as soon as I brought it to them that night they were like Nope, this, this is you.

Speaker 1:

This sums you up perfectly because you're, you are able to bring a fun aspect to things and also help people kind of find fun on the other side of healing and that is in my opinion, so important because healing and trauma can be such heavy work, depending on what you've gone through and you know it's, and I know people have gone through stuff that's far worse than what I ever lived through, and maybe the person next to me has no idea what I've been through, but we've all have something that we've. That's been a challenge. And for me to be able to help another woman take her challenge, you know, offer her some of the tools Again, I haven't created any classes, but I follow really helpful, educated women who are out there doing the work and for me to be able to say, hey, here's this great podcast, hey, here's this really helpful book, hey, here's a great community. I found If maybe they resonate with you to be able to do that but also to box it up so she finds the ability to treat herself because this goes back to me being worthy.

Speaker 1:

I didn't do anything for myself. I made good money when I was a single woman and I didn't spend a dime of it on myself. You know it was, it was part of my money mindset that I had to work through and it literally just this summer I realized that I I worked through the first piece, which was my childhood trauma from money. But I didn't work through the trauma of what I went through, as in an abusive marriage, over the money that I earned and brought into our home and I, just this summer, those layers came off. So it's not, you know, healing's not, it's not. There's so much that you can experience in life that it's not. Not that you'll never be healed, but I feel like there's always layers that you can work through and grow through and bring yourself to a different space, and I just I love that.

Speaker 1:

Like, honestly, I didn't want to start a subscription box for women. I just felt compelled to and it was like the idea was out of nowhere. It wasn't like I was sitting around going what can I do for a business that would help women. It just was like I was doing something fun. I was doing quarterly subscriptions for my current customers and it wasn't huge, it wasn't on a big scale. It was like five or six people bought them. They liked them, I had fun putting them together.

Speaker 1:

But being able to take, like all the things that I spent time learning over the years and helping me and my healing journey and my thriving journey, and help put that in a space where a woman can sit down and enjoy a box of fun stuff, but also like dive into understanding, you know, grounding tools and what meditation is and how journaling can help you and not everything's for everyone Like they're like. I would love to tell you that I'm the person who journals every single day and it's it helps me thrive. I like journaling. But even today I was like I wonder why it's something that I just can't wrap my head around daily and I don't know why it's just. But there are other things that do nourish me daily, you know.

Speaker 1:

And so that's kind of where it came from is just being in a space where I was allowing myself to be vulnerable and heal and connect with other women, and then, boom, this kind of like fell in my lap, just like, okay, I guess this is what I'm meant to do. And so I just started, immediately started like researching and trying to understand. You know what it is like. What does it really mean when I say I want to experience self love? You know, I spent my whole life being told that I wasn't worthy of love and that the only reason I was loved is because you know we can do and produce. Yeah, exactly so it, you know it's, but to be able to kind of understand that and teach someone else that maybe maybe didn't grow up similar to me but still doesn't really understand how to value themselves, and as part of, like, that community that Grace is building.

Speaker 2:

Uh, in the episode notes, you guys are going to have an affirmations wallpaper, courtesy of Grace. So thank you so much for pouring into the moms and to the women and to all we have walked through these shadows of religious trauma. I want you to know that your feelings are valid and that what you're going through is incredibly real and challenging through is incredibly real and challenging.

Speaker 2:

It is okay to feel confused, hurt, angry about your experience, that you are not alone in this journey, that it may feel like sometimes you're living a different life, a different relationship, or like you are in a different time zone. It's like I call it, in a twilight zone. Your relationships and your beliefs will change, but I challenge you to face them, to go get the help that you need, either with a therapist, with a coach or even with a trust friend, and remember we have to invite those friends. But you are going to strip away that and build a new community.

Speaker 2:

If you take anything from our two communities, we have communities because we were stripped out of them yeah so we just build a community that has sense of belonging, that all parts of you are identified in love and care, and it's important to remember that being loved also means taking responsibility and taking inventory of what, like Grace and I, we have told you. We wish we could tell you that we were also graceful in everything, in every single part of our lives, because healing is messy and healing.

Speaker 2:

It takes a lot of forms, but one form that doesn't take is hurting others. One form that doesn't take is blaming others for certain things that we do. It's important to remember that it's okay to question, to seek through and to find what truly brings you peace to your soul and sometimes doesn't look like everybody else. So take your time, heal and understand that healing is not linear. It's actually a whole bunch of things that you have to shed and put back together, almost like Legos. Some days may feel like step backwards, but every day is a push through. Every day is a push through. You are rediscovering who you are and why you believe in a way for fear and constraints of society.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes we don't do that. Like you say, I was fearful to leave a job because it's what it produces, and, as a woman, sometimes we are feared to leave a relationship, a community, a friendship. It's okay to mourn the losses, but it's more okay to celebrate that small victories along that path of recovery. So seek support from those who understand and can empathize with you Therapist, support groups, friends, online events like we did, we did online events, community events that offer understanding and acceptance necessary to move forward in your life, to live, feel free, authentically you, with beliefs that uplift you, not that pain you, and remember, rebuilding life in our own terms is always a goal. So, grace, it was an amazing talk. I just so delightful to have you and I know everybody in our community is going to love you in where we can find you.

Speaker 1:

Uh, you can find me. First of all, thank you so much for having me. I had no idea, um, how much you and I had in common, and I love that because I felt the first time I and I you may not even remember the first time I met you online was in a workshop and I just was so drawn to you and I didn't even remember. The first time I met you online was in a workshop. Yeah, and I just was so drawn to you and I didn't even know at the time how much we had in common. Um, and I just love that when you just land with the right people but you can find me oh, go ahead.

Speaker 2:

No, that's okay, I was like and you know what other thing I discovered? So back at home, before I came to United States, I'm a professional musician, like I have a great. I never done to sing, that's not my thing. I can't sing for the life of me. I always wanted to, but I don't have the voice. So we shared that love for music too and I was like when you were saying that, I was like, oh my god, I totally understand when you have to go to, like the holidays, concerts and stuff like that.

Speaker 2:

Um so, yes, I didn't realize either how much we have in common. I just when we met online I knew you, but it was when we met in person. I got to hug you and squeeze you. I'm all about energy with people, so it was such a connection. So, Grace, I am so grateful to have you, but I'm sorry to interrupt. So where we can find you.

Speaker 1:

You can find me. I spend most of my time in public spaces. On Instagram, you can find me at love those vibes box. I spend a lot of time there. I do have a personal account, but I have more fun on the love those vibes account. The personal account was more for my photography and my kids, and my kids no longer want their pictures taken and posted, so I respect that. They don't want them taken at all, but definitely not posted if we do take them. So I spent a lot of time and love those vibes box. I have fun over there.

Speaker 1:

I share all kinds of self love tools that I'm learning there and you can also, as Saturday mentioned, there will be a link where you can hop on my email list and download. I created fun phone wall affirmation like wallpaper affirmations for your phone. But there's some other fun stuff in that bundle as well, just things that I have recently shared in a workshop I did this summer and yeah, so hop on that email list. I don't email daily because I know how it is when you want to connect with someone and then they email you every day and you're like I don't have time to read them all, but I do email a couple of times a month and just kind of share what I'm learning and what's kind of on my mind and obviously what goodies are coming along the way as well. So I would love to keep up with you there.

Speaker 2:

Oh, thank you, Grace. We love you and now you're part of our community and, as I say, I will put also resources of support groups and how to find community for religious trauma. It will be in the notes or in my Instagram or Oasis community podcast. You can find me there as Grace, I have a personal account, but my personal account is in Spanish, so you know that's that it's like. The Oasis is more Spanglish, so you have English and Spanish things in there and it's all about mental health and growth. So, for everybody, thank you so much. I see you until next time and remember all parts of you are valid, respected and loved. Loved bye.

Speaker 2:

Let me stop it as we conclude today's episode. Take a moment to reflect, be proud of the journey, for every step that brings you closer to who you trulybrace the kindness towards yourself, as you did to each one of our guests, honor the bravery in your actions and celebrate the importance of mental wellness with us. And remember it's an exercise that we practice daily. Continue to grow and flourish, knowing that we are in this training for our mental wellness together. We are so proud to have you as part of our community. So join us on Instagram at Oasis Community Podcast for more inspiring conversations, valuable resources and supported content, including journals, worksheets and content in Spanish. Exciting things are in the horizon. Our Oasis community break rooms are coming soon to grab tools and take a break for your mental health. Also, we are featuring our six-month training ethical mental health coaching program, designed for new and experienced coaches, as well as holistic and healing professionals. Enroll to create a safe and transformative experience to your clients. Links in the bio. Until next time, take care, stay connected and welcome to our Oasis community.