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Choosing Your Path: Therapy or Coaching

• Dr. Roldan • Season 4 • Episode 6

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What if the path to personal growth and emotional wellness could be tailored to your unique needs and preferences? Sergio Soto Alvarez, a licensed marriage and family therapist with an MBA, joins us to unveil the groundbreaking TheraCoach platform, which merges therapy and coaching into a flexible, accessible model. Sergio's inspiring journey from a small California town to pioneering this innovative approach is a testament to his commitment to transforming mental health support. With TheraCoach, individuals can choose between therapy, potentially covered by insurance, or coaching for professional development, challenging traditional stigmas and offering a personalized path to growth.

Differentiating between therapy and coaching, Sergio sheds light on the ethical considerations and boundaries that define each profession. He stresses the importance of trauma-informed care and the potential risks of unqualified coaching in trauma situations. By advocating collaboration and mutual respect between therapists and coaches, Sergio guides listeners in making informed decisions about their mental health journey. Tune in to uncover the distinct yet complementary roles of therapy and coaching, and discover how to select the right support for your needs.

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Guess info:
IG: @theracoachsergio
website: https://www.theracoaching.net/


Disclaimer: It's essential to note that while I am a therapist, this podcast is not a substitute for therapy. The stories and discussions shared here are meant to inform and inspire but should not replace professional advice or support. 

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Speaker 1:

Hi, my name is Sergio Soto Alvarez. I am a licensed marriage and family therapist and I also possess an MBA. I am the founder of TheraCoach, where, I believe that you know, we have the choice of picking therapy or coaching. So I developed this concept where if people want to get therapy, they can come to me and use their insurance, or if therapy isn't what you're seeking, but more professional development around your career, academics, then coaching is also an option at TheraCoach. And if you want to know more about TheraCoach, feel free to visit my website at theracoachingnet, and you can also find me on LinkedIn by searching my name, Sergio Soto Alvarez, and you'll find a blurb of what TheraCoach is, along with other services that I provide.

Speaker 2:

Thank you coaches, along with other services that I provide. Thank you, hello, beautiful souls, and welcome to Oroasis Community Podcast. I am Dr Roldan, your host. I am a doctor in clinical psychology, a BIPOC therapist professor and a mindful somatic coach. While I am a therapist, remember I'm not your therapist.

Speaker 2:

This podcast is not a substitute for professional mental health care, but we have resources in our website and Instagram to support you in that search. Join us for a cozy, felt conversation about mental health, personal growth and mindfulness. We explore tools to care for your mind, your body and your soul. Check the footnotes for disclaimer, trigger warnings and additional resources for each one of the episodes. So grab your favorite cup of tea, coffee or hot chocolate, wrap yourself in a warm blanket and find a coffee spot here with us to be kind to be brave, loud and strong in your search of mental health wellness.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to your Oasis, welcome back everybody. Today I have a delight for you. So grab your cup of coffee, tea or any beverage that fuzzies your soul, because I have a good friend and also a colleague and a man that I admire for everything that he does, because he's not only kind and cares for the community, he also cares for the advancement of our communities, and he cares about mental health in men. So for no further ado, we have Sergio. Sergio is an LMFT and also a coach, correct Correct. So welcome to our Oasis community, sergio.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, dr Roland. I'm so happy to be here. It took a while for me and you to connect, but I'm glad that you're able to have me on our Oasis Community Podcast. So thank you, thank you.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. I know the schedules are crazy for all of us and the reason why I invite Sergio to the many, many times we have trying to schedule for many, many months. So you guys are for a delight, but the reason is because he has the concept that I love, that is, having coaching and therapy, not a combination, but grab what you need, which is the slogan that we have in our oasis. Mental health is for everybody, but therapy is not accessible for everybody, so sometimes we need a coach, and Sergio is going to tell us his story about how he started this movement, why did he start this movement, and his story about what is his mental health approach and coaching approach. All right?

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you, dr Goldman. So yeah, let me let me go back in time a little bit. I grew up in a very small conservative town by the name of Watsonville, california, super Mexican tradition. And you know, as I grew up, I realized that I was a very shy kid. Even in grad school I learned that I wouldn't even like speak up or raise my hand, and a lot of it was because I was embarrassed and shy and, I guess you can say, a little insecure about what I was going to say because I was just not prepared for it. So you know, I went to grad school to become a therapist and through that I realized that I was still shy to speak I'm more of a one-on-one person but I also realized that I wanted to move up in my career. I didn't want to shy to speak I'm more of a one-on-one person but I also realized that I wanted to move up in my career. I didn't want to just do therapy, I wanted to get into management and lead a team. So then I decided to get my MBA and actually challenge myself.

Speaker 1:

And when I was applying for MBAs I was looking for programs that were in person and that would challenge me to public speak and I did it. I went to san marcos csu, san marcos got my nba and this came to me during covid. I was like I need to do something to challenge myself. You know, we're in lockdown, I'm bored and a lot of me wanted to challenge things and learning things, so I won't I'm not gonna lie, like getting my nba was probably the hardest yeah thing I've done, not because of the math, because I had to stand in front of a lot of people who just seem very confident and you know, I always found myself being the person in our group, our team groups, being like hey, like what's going on? Like like why are you so anxious? Or you know, like, like what's going on with your body? Like why can't we turn that anxiety into excitement instead of like nervousness? So through my grad school program, I was able to create their coach, because there was a project where it was essentially create your own program or business.

Speaker 1:

And I thought you know what other, what better way to develop my own business than in this actual program? So that's what I did. I developed their coach and I call it their coach because it's basically therapy and coaching. Right, and I honestly know that a lot of people don't want to go to therapy. There's still a stigma with wanting therapy and some people want to focus more on their academics, professional development and also coaching doesn't require insurance. Some people don't have insurance so they can opt out of that and go to coaching, which can kind of be the same thing. But at TheraCoach I do take insurance and also coaching is typically out of pocket.

Speaker 1:

But I developed this for me. Th coach was for me and it's funny because I always tell my partner when he's telling me things and he's like do it this way, like speak up or go against the grain with your boss, I'm like I know, but that's not their coach, because my philosophy is also bringing heart into every meeting I go to. It's not just about the mind for me. That's why I blended my business and psychology together, because I believe that you can bring vulnerability and empathy into a business meeting, because people think that it's weakness. It really isn't. It's so much more work to be vulnerable and weak, especially in mental health, and luckily, my professional development has led me to, aside from leading being the founder of Theracoch, I'm also the director of social services at a nonprofit here in San Diego and I oversee behavioral health clinics and I work alongside amazing people, and I always keep in mind that these people are also people. They're human, they have feelings, emotions, and that's where I find that balance.

Speaker 2:

Right, right and Sergio and I we met once upon a time when we were in our internships. As my audience know, I started in forensics and then nonprofits, and when I met Sergio, we were in highway houses or safe houses.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we were at the crisis houses. Yeah, we were in the crisis. That was so long ago.

Speaker 2:

We were super babies and Sergio was very quiet but he was such a gentle force. When you go into these crisis houses you get a little bit of everything A little bit of addiction, a little bit of psychosis, a little bit of everything a little bit of addiction, a little bit of psychosis, a little bit of like I'm just trying to find a new place to move and he will come. Everybody, everybody. And of course I was like the more talkative one, I was the one that I liked they solved the cases. But like him, I noticed that in our communities, in the Latino communities, men are neglected mostly a lot of the time. I mean, it's hard enough for women to get help in our communities. So we go with la comadre, with the padrecito, with maybe el curandero. We go with everything else except somebody that is a little bit trained in trauma, informed, or is a therapist, right, and like you, I create Oasis Academy because I saw that. I saw how our community will go with coaches a lot, and there is good coaches and there is questionable coaches. Right, like in therapy, there is great therapists and there is therapists that they should not do this to either, right, so there is always something. And with that I went in consulting in my as in law enforcement and first responders right In the active duty. That's where I go and do a lot of these vulnerably workshops.

Speaker 2:

But I want to touch base with you about how it was being a male in this environment Because, you know, as it is, there is certain careers that they always place, unfortunately, in that gender. Right Like teachers are female. Kindergarten teachers should be female when in reality it should be everything right, because kids need to see everything the same. When we are struggling with our mental health, we want to see somebody that looks like us, that talks like us or is struggling a little bit with the same things that we did. So can you tell us the story of how you become a therapist?

Speaker 2:

You know, because one thing is when we go through school and we realize like we're baby therapists and we're like I don't know if I'm caught up for this, and then when we are finally outside in the world because that's another thing for all my college students that are hearing this what we learn in school is a quarter of what we do outside. They don't teach about the insurance and the red tape of the insurance and how care sometimes we want to give it, but we cannot survive with giving the care and stuff like that. So tell us about that transition from you went to MFT, wanted to save the world, and then you went to the world and you were like, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1:

Yeah for sure. So I went to grad school for clinical counseling at Point Loma Nazarene University and, believe it or not, I was the only self-identified male in that cohort. It was all women and it was hard being the only male, because I wanted male perspective yeah, and male perspective, yeah, and even even interning at the crisis house. It was also hard being a male as a therapist, because we have to consider, a lot of women have trauma at a crisis house. So with me I've always had to bring, bring out the empathy side of me and make sure that I come off as very charismatic, basically make it known that I'm a gay man and I'm gonna make a safe.

Speaker 1:

I'm gonna create a safe ground around you, right, and I realized that even meeting with like men in like a crisis house these people are acute psychosis, like you said, and I honestly was. These guys would be like, oh what are you going to talk to me about? Or opening up is for women, or that's something that's okay, that's not. I'm not a gay guy, like right, but I talk about my feelings and I I realized, like you know what that is not okay. Like men should not be afraid to speak up or share their emotions, and I know it sounds bad, but like whenever a man would cry in session with me when I was developing myself as a therapist, to me that was an accomplishment, not because I made them cry, but because I was able to hit a part of them and get them to open up and maybe share something that they couldn't because there was shame and there's stigma about being an emotional, sensitive man humanly. So honestly, like, luckily, the internships I had, I found my niche and its connection.

Speaker 1:

My approach is. My approach is simple. It's making sure my person that I'm talking to from me, connects with me and letting them know this is about them, and I like to use a something called unconditional positive regard, no matter what you tell me, I'm going to treat it very neutral. Whether or not I agree with you, that's not about me at all. You can tell me anything, right? And I'm going to say okay, thank you for sharing. Let's tell me more. I want to know more, and I think people get shocked by that, because that's how they start to feel safe with me, because they don't seemingly react or say, hey, I'm not going to see that client. And you know at the crisis house how we can't pick our clients. No, we can't pick our clients. We walk in, our name's on the board yeah, like you're seeing five people today, bye, and because, remember, we were interns and they always gave us the hardest.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, to scare us away.

Speaker 1:

Like if, yeah, to scare us away, like if you can handle this, you can handle anything, yeah, and I'd be like, oh my god, I'm not ready for this. But eventually they if you're of your student and you notice that and you're listening to this and you're getting assigned a tough client, I promise you it's, it's for your own good like you're gonna learn so much about yourself and that challenge right there is going to help you realize what it is you like about yourself as a parent.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes, I remember one in particular that was like. That one was the catalyst for me to work with active duty. Active duty picked me. I didn't pick them per se Because in my head I was like, oh, I'm going to be forensics, you know criminal minds kind of thing which, by the way, for for my students, that's just tv, it's not reality what you see in there. But uh, it was the one that, like you say, I am always, um, as a therapist, I am very uh, try to co-regulate with you, meaning when, because word is convoluted and you need to know that somebody can handle the toe, that you're giving them right, that they're not going to freak out with you, they're not going to judge you, they're not going to be scared of you. With that said, one of my first veterans that I had in the crisis house. It was like, because I look like a kid, as it is, like I will look very young. You're a tiny, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And I'm look very young. You're tiny, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And I'm only 4'11 for everybody. That is there. I barely make it out of, like the scale. But they, he said to me what a little girl is going to teach me about life. One and two it was like and you're Latina and I'm racist, and I'm like, tell me more, I'm curious about that. And like he say all the most mischievous things that you can think.

Speaker 2:

But because I was not offended, because I was like there is a reason that you feel that way towards my people, right, so we start talking and stuff and you know a while he was one of my favorite clients and, yes, in the crisis house we know that they rotate a lot because unfortunately, our housing system and homelessness system is a little broken here in California Well, in pretty much anywhere. But with that I also learned the judgment. Like you say, we will take um. For anybody that has watched Grey's Anatomy, it was like the same, while we crisis, we will be in the in the internship and we were like, ooh, it's the closest one, let's go see who gets it, kind of thing Right. Um, I was fortunate that my internships were really really hard, in the sense like they will be the hard clients and for some reason male teenagers are the hard clients for every other therapist that I was working with, especially if they identify queer or they're in that kind of navigation of like who I am and what I am kind of thing.

Speaker 2:

Can you tell me how yourself navigate that in an industry that is sometimes very stigmatized, one and two, very dismissive of like? Mental health is not just what happened to you, it's also the oppression that is around you, the systems that are around you, that even though you get the health and medication and the therapy, we cannot change the universe for that. So can you tell me a little bit about your story to our clients and to our audience that is listening, that or that young teenager that is listening? You know college students like I'm in that middle that I don't know. I don't want to say anything. I don't want to rock the boat. I don't want to say anything. I don't want to rock the boat. I don't want to do anything right now.

Speaker 1:

So do you mean in terms of like, when you're working with the LGBTQIA team? Yes, okay, yeah, I think that, luckily for me, being gay, I'm very open about it. But for a clinician or a person who is trying to connect with the youth or a person who identifies as LGBTQIA+, it's important to let them know that you know this is a safe space. And in addition to a safe space, I also like to use a brave space, and when I say brave space, it's where I let my clients give me feedback and I ask for it and I say what questions did I ask you? That you know you were that you didn't like, because then that gives me perspective. Like I'm like, why didn't you like that question being asked? Right, and I think, too, is one thing I personally don't like.

Speaker 1:

It is when therapists try to make it very like, use toxic positivity about being like algebra tqia, like I love big day pride, or, oh, I have gay friends, you know, like we get it, but it's not the same thing, right, right. So I think, just just acknowledging it and knowing that that's just not, that's just only a part of us, right, it's not the whole entire, we're not the whole entire thing. There's more to us right and acknowledging that sometimes we don't want to talk about that because it takes a being being being gay it's. I've met other gay therapists and we've all had different coming out stories, different experiences, but one thing we have in common is that we just want a safe space to just talk and just process and get to somebody who understands us.

Speaker 2:

Right and the part of like we just don't want to be judged.

Speaker 1:

Whatever that judgment looks like, we don't want to be judged Right.

Speaker 2:

And as therapists and coaches, we know I don't care who you are, we all have biases, we all do. I don't care who you are, we all have biases, we all do. And the most important thing that I always say this is your green flag that I'm very animate with my students, my clients and the coaches that I coach is if the person that is either training you, guiding you or anything like that is not going themselves to therapy or to a coach, that is a red flag for me, because you cannot teach me something that you're not practicing yourself.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Kind of like you're saying if I'm giving you feedback, I want to get the feedback too. Right, and I agree with the whole. Like that's very cute that you say that you're X, y and Z. You have one friend that looks like me, talks like me, but that doesn't mean you understand what it is to be me, because even in our stories we're very different. So tell me now how coaching came out of therapy for you.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So coaching came out of therapy because I realized that the word therapy is very scary, Stigmatizing. People are like oh my gosh, I don't need therapy. Or like no, why would I go to therapy? Like I'm not crazy, Right, I don't have any problems. So I was like how can I put a twist to this? Because coaching can be therapeutic, but my coaching isn't therapy.

Speaker 1:

No, the way that I coach is more like it's more solution focused, like what's the outcome? But we're going to also explore your emotions through it. We're not going to go into the trauma work or figure out why that teacher is making you feel that way. Instead, we're going to focus on ways to overcome that teacher. So therapy for me is more let's go back in time and coaching for me is more like let's figure out what's going on now and move forward. Find you the tools that are already inside you to make you successful. I always tell my clients jokingly your skills to be professionally where you want to be. It's like a six-pack right, everyone has a six-pack, but you need to work out, eat healthy, and the reason I use that and that analogy is because that's how therapy and coaching works. You already have everything in you, you just need someone to help you yes, basically bring it out right and strengthen you.

Speaker 1:

It's a muscle that you basically bring it out and strengthen you. It's a muscle that therapy and coaching do for your mind.

Speaker 2:

Correct and Fede. You said that because that's exactly what I use as an example either for my coaches or for my clients. No-transcript. And when you get into an accident and you lose mobility in one of your extremities or any part of your body, you go to physical therapy to regain what it was once there. So that is therapy. Gain what it was once there, so that is therapy. Something happened to us that we lost mobility of emotions or self-love, self-care, and we need a therapist to help us to exercise again how to do it. Once we get there, then we go to a coach that then they can teach us new techniques. And they can teach us oh, you know, this is a YNC technique to stack. I call it stacking skills, right?

Speaker 2:

The danger is that I always prevent either clients and coaches, because you can have all the good intentions Like, let's say, you went to a very traumatic event and now you're coaching about that traumatic event and I tell them that is transfer trauma. That is not coaching, right, I love you and I care that you care for people, but what about? Instead of teaching them or transferring trauma, we teach people how to stay in that and maybe ask for help if they need to or not. So part of being trauma informed means to a lot for a lot of my coaches I train is please refer out. It's okay, Because as a coach, word of mouth is the most important presentation card, right. So you want to say save a client the hurdle that you are not going to be able to help them, at least not right now.

Speaker 2:

But, because you send them to the right place. They will be so grateful with you.

Speaker 1:

And I'm glad you bring that up because I think that, no, I think actually I know that in my the beginning of my practice I wanted all the clients right, because when we're interning, people just throw clients on our plate. But when you're in your private practice you can be selected. But I think what's hard too is the ethical pieces. I don't want I don't need to take on clients for a moment, like, yeah, but that shouldn't be the reason why you're taking on clients right. And yeah, I've had, I've had to tell clients, you know, we're not a good fit, and that's sort of the consultation.

Speaker 1:

And I have had clients be like, hey, you're not a good fit for me either, and I'm like, hey, that hurt in the beginning, it's a girl, but I was like, oh my god, I got rejected. Or you know, I had to turn a client down and I felt guilty, like, I felt so bad, like, but it's, it's part of the process and I like that. You mentioned that, because if you can't take on a client, you're doing them more of a good by not taking them on. Right, and also, some therapists you know, not everyone has that specialization in trauma-informed care, right, even though I think it is important. I think every therapist, I think every human should have a trauma-informed approach.

Speaker 2:

I agree, I agree, and that's why I dedicate myself to do trainings in trauma-informed in school, at work, in law enforcement, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 2:

You will think that they have all the training, but they don't, and also not only the training, but the history of the trauma of the place. What do I mean? For example, if you work in a nonprofit, one of the things that nonprofits were created for it was, like you know, it was very church oriented. Therefore, people cannot make money out of nonprofits. But now nonprofits are huge, huge, huge identities, meaning corporations. You're not going to have a CEO that is going to make 3K outside, making only 4K in the nonprofit, just because it's the goodness of the heart. They also have to live, right, and this is the the little thing that I found very peculiar, because the difference between coaches and therapists is that coaches are very uh, almost like superstars, monetarily wise, you know they can make a lot of money if they want to with ethical ways.

Speaker 2:

But therapists are very locked in certain ways. Right, and like you say, you don't want to take every single client, but when you work with insurance which, by the way, if you haven't heard or episode three, you should it talks about why it's so hard working with insurance. As clinicians, we want to, but it's almost like you're shackling yourself to not help this other population. Right, and even in between therapists, not all of us were specialized in the same things. For example, in the private practice that I work we're seven Out of the seven. I am one of two that is specializing somatic trauma training. Okay, and out of the two, only I the one that treats all the you can say heart cases like cptsd, ptsd, military chronically ill and terminally kind of like your. I I always joke that I like the sub things, but you know, because I was like I like, I like sitting in sadness too.

Speaker 1:

I love my Lana Del Rey every now and then I love sitting in it. Yeah, I think it's okay and that's what I love about therapy too. It's like let's sit in. I'm not going to say like, hey, it's going to get better. I'm like, no, you know what, let's sit in it for a couple of minutes.

Speaker 2:

I want to know all the feelings Right right, right, and then I connect you back to your body and you know, like you say, we find this niche Mai was utilizing pop culture, video games and why not to do exposure therapy and I have been well known because of it. But you are going to always have somebody and this is for all my baby therapists out there and baby coaches that is going to try to sell you or tell you that this is the only way to do things. You know, like there is always the which therapeutic approach is the best, or if psychodynamics versus psychoanalysis, et cetera, et cetera. Right, and in coaching, we have the same In coaching, unfortunately, it is true that one day I can get up and say I'm a coach, right, Because it's not regulated whatsoever.

Speaker 2:

But that's what the regulation comes from, the person that is hiring the coach. If we're hiring it out of almost like not a need, but almost like I'm missing something and I want this person to provide it, that's a no-no. If I'm like, I like their skills and I want to learn how to do that, that's a different approach. So can you tell us, like when you have people that comes to you for coaching and you're like, ooh, you need therapy, not coaching. How do you navigate that?

Speaker 1:

Well, oh my gosh, that's a good question, because I do for coaching. I do have clients who want to talk to me about how to be a better leader or how to be more of a team player, and part of me is like maybe we should do some therapy to dig into why you don't like to open up to people on the team or be a team player. But I also have to remember that they came to me for coaching and I have to be client-centered. And the thing with coaching is that I'm also more available. With therapy, it's only whatever your insurance allows. I'm also more available with therapy. It's only whatever you're insured to allow. So that's a little bit more. There's more rules to that.

Speaker 1:

With coaching, I allow my coaching clients to call me. We can email back and forth text because that's part of our plan. Like you know, like, hey, I'm going to go into a meeting. I'm very anxious. Can you help, like, prep me up for it? Yeah, let's get on a call real quick and let's go through that. But, um, yeah, I think that. Sorry, I lost my train of thought because I get so passionate about the coaching part.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so when I client comes to me, I don't, I don't, I don't choose for them, I don't, I just they came to me for a specific thing and it's not until the coaching that you know we just go that route. Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I with my coach. So I train the coaches. I don't train the people, I train the coaches. Okay, and with them.

Speaker 2:

You know, I have coaches for everything from soundbats to crystals to roots, to like actually shadow work, and I always told all of them you have to respect what the client is coming for you. But at the same time, if you see the red flags that maybe they're not stable enough for this or this, and that because the difference, the huge difference between coaching and therapy, I feel is like one time somebody joked with me because I once hired a coach and they said, oh, you hired a cheerleader. I'm like, yeah, I did, I totally did because I need it, like I need a cheerleader to tell me I'm doing it okay, because my therapist cannot do that. My therapist cannot be my cheerleader because we're neutral.

Speaker 2:

And that is the part that is the most telling one, which one you can take, for example, as a therapist, if I see you in the street, I don't recognize you. I love you and I want the best for you, but I cannot say hi to you ever, right? If I go to your birthday parties or whatever. You know, graduation a lot of them, they want to go to graduations because you know they're so important and stuff. I cannot because, believe it or not, I carry with me a lot of the darkness that has been passed right, it has been put on me. So I don't want to be in the most happy places of your life because that's not very therapeutic for you.

Speaker 1:

You can run into people that they've told you things about, mm-hmm, and then not that we, but we have an image of that person in our minds, right, like oh, that's who you talk to.

Speaker 2:

Right, right, you're like, ah, like there is this TikTok that I always laugh because all my clients say do you want to see a picture? Like no Can say show me the picture of the person that you're talking. Nope, nope. But as a coach, my coach is my friend now, like years past. Right, I have gone to their weddings, I have gone to their baby showers. You know that is like a different relationship because it becomes more professional, slash, coworking, right. So I think that is the biggest difference that when you share a lot of vulnerability and pain, if it's pain that you will not share with pretty much everybody, then it's not pain that needs to be shared with a coach, but it is pain that can be shared with a therapist and you can untangle whatever is in there With coaches. I believe that are the best chill leaders that are the best to hone down one skill. Believe that are the best chill leaders that are the best to hone down one skill like.

Speaker 2:

The word coach means right, like in a gym or in a career of obstacles. They're going to pressure you a little bit. Sometimes they're going to tell you you're not doing okay and they're going to give you their perspective and maybe you don't want to like it, but they always are. With kind regard. Coaching, no. Therapy should hurt. They should not be harmful, they should not be making you feel worse. Um, granted, therapy is more like a root canal versus coaching is like braces, that's like how I put it I feel like with therapy too, we have to remember that it can be a little hard in the beginning.

Speaker 1:

If you have to unpack a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff comes up even my, my own therapy still like and that's when the work starts to happen.

Speaker 2:

Right, right and I, but it never has to re-traumatize you or hurt too much, exactly.

Speaker 2:

Like that's what I say, like I wrote kind of it's not pleasant and like have you got any trouble? Because I know in the therapy sphere they have kind of like not such a good eyes for coaches or they're always like kind of like psychiatrists and therapists it's the same kind of like stay in your lane, don't do this. But I was like can we collaborate instead of like fighting for people or who's better or who's not? Have you encountered that kind of I don't want to say discrimination, but kind of animosity between the two careers?

Speaker 1:

Well, I'll be honest with me personally, I've come across like I've met people who are life coaches, who specialize in trauma, and I'll oftentimes be like oh, oh, like where did you go to school? Like where did you get certified? And they'll tell me where they went. And you know, this is just my perspective. It's really I don't think that a certification can train somebody for trauma work, um, and also because coaching can be done anywhere, like I can be in california and you can be in, like in Florida or New York, and I think, too, is with therapy, it's like we have to know where our clients are so that we can access any crisis interventions and coaching. I think that coaches aren't aware of their client surroundings, even if it's virtual. Like it's really important to know where your clients at, where they live, and do a little research, like where does my client live, where's the nearest hospital, and know, like, who to call, like my name, my name, my name, my name or all that stuff.

Speaker 2:

Right, yeah, and it is a for people that doesn't know. If you are a life coach, you get what 60, 60 to 90 days training and different things. Mostly it's marketing. But there is a difference between being trauma-informed and trauma-trained. Trauma-trained takes years and a lot of packing. Trauma-awareness or trauma-informed means oh, I know about trauma and I cannot handle it, so I know how to transfer it to another identity or another person. That is being trauma informed and that is something that a lot of coaches I used to like, not like life coaches.

Speaker 2:

I went to a very famous event with a very famous coach that will put the person in, you know, in the stage and say tell me about your childhood trauma and blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2:

And the person opened up because they trust this person and you're all pumped out with like energy and everybody's loving you in the moment. And the person opened up a very dark story of abuse and why not? And then the show was over and I was sitting down in the hotel bar and I saw the person and the person was contemplating like their their drink, like just messing around with it, and I was like, oh no, I know that, I know that, shake it off the drink. So I just came around and was like how, how many years have you been sober? And the person looked at me like 20. But today I, just like you, the coach opens so much and they rip him apart. That left him bleeding afterwards and that is why you don't know trauma, when you don't know what is trauma informed. When you open, you thought that was just a little little thing and you just undone a person's uh, the most traumatic thing it's important to know how to close, like when you unpack a can of worms.

Speaker 2:

It's important to know how to put it back in and seal it back in and make sure that they're okay right and as clients and people that are searching for coaches, because you know, uh, if you go with therapists, uh, if they're private paid yes, they're private paid. Yes, they're expensive, but the reason that they're expensive is because they have to pay for clinics and all the other stuff. But if you pay for a coach, I just want you to be aware of the things. You can always say no, thank you, and you can always cut it off whenever. The same with therapists If you don't like them, you can go find out somebody. I know it's hard, but I promise you there is Latino therapists, there is male therapists, there is queer therapists. It takes a little digging, but there is. And there is the same with coaches.

Speaker 2:

But one of my favorite coaches she as a client somebody came and told her start dumping, you know things on her, and she was like no, I don't do that. She was like very good in her boundaries. So I'm curious how do you protect your boundaries? Because it can be a blurry line when you're a therapist and a coach and you're like but I know how to do this, but no, that is not the role that I have here. So how do you handle that blurry line of helping your clients?

Speaker 1:

I make it known that you know there's emails you can email me. There's like hours that I won't reply. I think that I mean no social media can have me, Hence why I haven't started my. I don't have my. I took off my personal social media. I deactivated it because I was getting clients who were following me or who were requesting me, and then they would ask me in session like, hey, I thought I requested you and I'd say I know, but I'm also very. My approach is honesty. I'm very honest. I don't beat around the bush. I'm like, yeah, I know you have, and so I wanted to talk about that today. Or, you know, you brought, you brought something up that's been on my mind as well. Let's talk about it.

Speaker 1:

And I let him know, like as a therapist and as a client, we're not friends like, right, you know it sounds it sounds mean, but well, we learn this in law and ethics and take exams and and we study it and at the end of the day, like, yeah, I know so much about you, that's one-sided, yeah, that it wouldn't be fair for us to be friends.

Speaker 1:

Not because I don't want to be your friend, but because I know everything about you, because you trust me, right in your mind, I'm your friend, right, because you you've. You haven't told anybody these things and in a sense, it's been a one-sided trauma bonding, right, and I've been here, I've been nothing but supportive to you, right, and it's not fair to be friends with somebody like that. It really isn't, because it's only been your side, right and and it's just not not okay, and then, with boundaries too, it's I, just as things come up, we just have the conversations like the hard conversation that they're probably not used to having, right right and and it's also to remind uh people, uh, that when, for example, the consent form that we give in the morning in the beginning of any uh session mine says that too, it actually has my social media and stuff in there.

Speaker 2:

It says you cannot follow me. Like it says in there, if you follow me, I'm gonna block you. Uh, not because I don't love you, not because I don't care for you, but it's a power dynamic. That is not okay. Yeah, like you say, I know so much and that it will be too powerful and too nerve-wracking that you will feel like, um, because I have one client once asked me oh, are you like the TikTokers that are going to talk about your clients in the thing? Like no, but I can see why you will think that no, if they do that, please report it or something. But no, the reason is because life is going to life and a lot of social media. What they are selling you is the person, life. So when we are one sided, that's the magic of it, right? You don't know much about me, so you can put a lot of things.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Because I'm a blank state right. Once you start knowing more about me, then you start your brain is a brain and it's going to start doing biases and say they are going to judge me. I should not say this because it can offend them. So you start putting predisposed notions because you know me, that's why we're with, that's why, when we were in high school, we do dumb things with friends, because we do it, because they influence all the friends. So to keep it a blank slate is why we don't become friends or anything like that. Now, in coaching, it's a different story, because I'm teaching you actually a skill, I'm teaching you a performance, if you will Like. For example, the coaches I coach about trauma-informed. I show them scenarios and how to pass people and also I show them how they're gonna get triggered, because that's another thing that coaches don't realize that when you work with people, you're gonna get triggered. Yes, people is gonna people and you, if you don't do the internal work, it's gonna show.

Speaker 1:

So for our audience, what it will be like three little nuggets of uh information that you will give them, either for therapy, to finding a male therapist, or coaching so people are looking for these things like, well, I mean, there's a, there's alma, it's a good directory, that's where you can find me on, and there's a, and you can filter it out based on gender, culture, identity, all that stuff.

Speaker 1:

I think it has to do with your niche, like what you're actually looking for, like your specific, like what you specifically want to work on, because one coach isn't going to know everything, so it's important to know what you can help with. And if you don't, consult, consultations are free, and they should be free. Yeah, and if you're out there and you're a therapist and you charge for them sorry, not putting you down, but consultations should be free. They're 15 minutes and that's that's when you start to do your shopping, like it's okay to interview multiple people until you find that one person, because it's an investment in yourself and we're not cheap right, we're not cheap, and the reason that we're not cheap is because we spend a lot of student loans on it if I, if I told people how much I owe I tell them I owe two houses in california to give you a perspective, but um, but I also told them uh, choose that right, even with my students.

Speaker 2:

So I coach a lot of students in career and goal setting and why not? And one of the things I coach them is the investment that you're going to make in school. Make sure that the job that you're going to get is going to pay at least a quarter of that investment. Because, for example, if you go for a career that is going to cost you $90,000 and you're only going to make $40,000 a year, the math doesn't matter right, and passion can get killed with poverty too. So I coach in about how to choose what resonates with you, but also what is good for you.

Speaker 2:

My three nuggets for people is the same Consultation is free because it's 15 minutes. It should not be charged, either for coaches or therapists. Always, always, always get referrals, meaning ask people that has gone through this program, or ask people it has gone through this coach, not the people that they put in their Instagrams and stuff like that, because, like any ad, you know, we can pay people to do that. But if it's for word of mouth, it's golden, because you know if I know Susanita that went to do this. I trust her, so I'm going to go. But also understand that you're dealing with a human being and because you're dealing with a human being, sometimes you don't buy it and it's okay to say I don't want to. So when you have coaches that make you sign contracts for a year or six months, no, because you know I always say 90 days, even in a car. Before you return a car that is real expensive, you have 90 days before you can return it. So the same with therapists you can drop them anytime that you want.

Speaker 1:

And I wanted to mention one more thing. So a nugget I have, too, is therapists don't, ethically, we cannot get testimonials. Someone can't be like, oh, sergio and Dr Roldan are the best therapists out there, like we highly recommend, right, we can't do that. That's not fair, because it's like saying like, oh, my surgeon is the best surgeon I highly recommend when something happens to you. And oh my gosh, right, but we're coaching. That's different. They can promote, like you said, they can promote six month contracts. They can promote that they're the best, that they, that they will help you get your results in like three months or whatever. So that's a difference too is how we advertise, because we can't, we go on a directory, that's it, right, right.

Speaker 2:

And we go by specialities and stuff like that. And uh, also, don't leave gel previews for your therapist. They don't, we don't read it and like we don't do use them or anything like that. Like Serge would say, therapists wear like a ghost.

Speaker 1:

Really, that's what it is.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for your protection, but coaches, that's a different story. In coaches, you do have a lot of advertisement and a lot of coaches, unfortunately. Unfortunately, they're selling you a lifestyle, which that should be your red flag. If somebody's promised you, oh, in three months you're gonna have my life, no, maybe you're gonna have the tools to get there, that's totally okay, but you will not have their life, and I'm not. I have a beef, if you will, with a positive toxicity, because sometimes life sucks and you just have to be sitting down in that. But to wrap it up, what it will be one green flag to be like if I'm a client and I want to be your client, client, what it will be a green flag, your ideal client, for you I.

Speaker 1:

I want somebody who wants to come and do the work. I want somebody who is ready to challenge themselves and and be open and just share as much as they're able, as much as they're willing to share, but at the end of it, I want somebody who thinks that I am the good therapist for them because, at the end of the day, I'm your, I'm, you're my boss. Yeah, my client is. I like to perceive it that way. My client is my boss and I and I listened to them and it's up to them on how the therapy goes Right. And I just want somebody who feels a connection with me Because even in my directory.

Speaker 1:

I mentioned that for me is, if there's not a vibe between us, like if there's no chemistry, then you know, you'll know right away. Right, you'll know there's chemistry and I make sure that people know. Like you know, this is really important and if you don't connect with me, it's okay.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, really important, and if you don't connect with me, it's okay, yeah, right, yeah, and my for me. I will say one of the in that connection. Like you say, yeah, if you don't connect with your therapist, it's okay to say thank you, but no, thank you we. We don't get, but hurt we, we.

Speaker 1:

You don't have our feelings I've had a client send me a long paragraph about how, because they didn't move forward with me, they sent me a whole paragraph through email saying how they felt bad and everything and all I said was like hey, it's okay.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

And that's all I said. I should have written more, but I'm like I didn't really. I didn't want to. Yeah, I just reassured them. Like it's okay, like it's not Right.

Speaker 2:

Right, it was like it's okay, Like it's not Right, right, and I was like that is a good thing to explore with your next therapist.

Speaker 1:

And it's important to say that to clients too Like, hey, if you don't move forward with me, just preface the conversation during the consultation and say hey, if you don't move forward with me, no hard feelings at all. This is part of the role or part of my job Right Part of this experience and journey for I asked mine by the third session.

Speaker 2:

So how are we doing? Are we okay? Are we? Do you want to try different therapists? And even that's the other thing, I don't keep clients forever either, like you know. Max a year Well, depends on the trauma but mostly a year and after that was like you need a different type of therapist because I am the one that is taking you out of the thick. But I take you to a level and once you're in that level, I send you out Right, and sometimes clients or even in coaching, they're like but I don't want to leave. I'm like no, you have to. It's like go fly.

Speaker 1:

And I'll be honest, that's been hard for me with a few people because they look so sad, like why are you firing me? Or yeah, I'm like no, I feel like I. I said I sense growth like you and I do I. What I do, too, is I do assessments, I measure the depression, anxiety and if I notice it going down, I'm like, hey, we're both doing an amazing job together. You don't need me as much anymore. Right, going like once, like every week, to twice a month, to once a month, to maybe four or something my um.

Speaker 2:

I always told them you are the car and the gps after a while driving with me.

Speaker 1:

You need an update yes, and that update yeah, because you do grow with your clients. You look forward to that. I mean, I mean, even though, like we are their therapists, we still look forward to meeting with them right, we're humans and we get connected to them.

Speaker 2:

Um and for the coaching industry, uh, what kind of coaching do you do, do? Do you do business coaching, life coaching?

Speaker 1:

So what I specialize in is more blending personal and professional together, a little bit of academic and figuring out how you can move forward and you're stuck in your career. Maybe there's something at your job that you are struggling with, maybe your evaluation at work didn't go so well and you bring it to our coaching session.

Speaker 1:

We go over and figure out how we can get those merits up and we talk about it, you know, and that's when the therapy comes in, a little bit like hey, how are you feeling about scoring this level? Right? Most people I keep it. I don't get too deep because we're not going back in time. But then we explore that and we move forward and things come out like they'll be. Like maybe I don't go to work on time, I don't really care, I'm doing the silent quitting or I'm kind of looking for other jobs. I'm like, yeah, so that stuff's being noticed right. So, yeah, I mean, that's that's. The coaching is more specific on that and more outcome driven. Okay, we measure it so there's definitely measuring that we're doing okay.

Speaker 2:

So if you are out there, even transitioning jobs, or you just want to become the best CEO of your own life, not of their job, come and see Sergio Sergio, where they can find you if they want to have a coach like you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, they can go to theracoachingnet and they can also look me up on LinkedIn. Sergio Soto Alvarez, You'll be able to find me.

Speaker 2:

Perfect, and I will put all those links in the notes of the program. So, for everybody out there, just remember take a little sip of water, hot cocoa that warms your heart, and just sit on it for a minute. That no matter what, everything will pass, good or bad, until next time. Thank you so much. Thank you, sergio.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2:

And let me stop it as we conclude today's episode. Take a moment to reflect. Be proud of the journey, for every step that brings you closer to who you truly are. Embrace the kindness towards yourself as you did to each one of our guests. Honor the bravery in your actions and celebrate the importance of mental wellness with us. And remember it's an exercise that we practice daily. Continue to grow and flourish, knowing that we are in this training for our mental wellness together. We are so proud to have you as part of our community at our Oasis Community Podcast for more inspiring conversations, valuable resources and supported content, including journals, worksheets and content in Spanish. Exciting things are in the horizon. Our Oasis Community break rooms are coming soon to grab tools and take a break for your mental health. Also, we are featuring our six-month training ethical mental health coaching program designed for new and experienced coaches, as well as holistic and healing professionals. Enroll to create a safe and transformative experience to your clients. Links in the bio. Until next time, take care, stay connected and welcome to our Oasis community.